I don't have time to post my own complete list (maybe later) but I think the Primer staff did a much better job than MLB. My AL starting lineup includes Ichiro, not Mora. I was interested in this caveat:

Most voters choose to respect the one-player-per-team rule, but some don't and we don't fault them for it.

Hey, if Rondell White and Lance Carter aren't there, it's hardly an All-Star game, is it?

First, though I like "Bauxites," I would vote for "Boxers" since we could re-write the Simon & Garfunkel song lyrics for a theme and adopt December 26 (Boxing Day) as our High Holy Day of the Offseason.

Here's what sticks in my craw ...
Why Edgar Martinez???

Now, wait, I'm not saying he's not the most deserving full-time DH. But seriously, how many A.L. teams have one guy who is "the DH" (to the extent Edgar is) any more? (I don't know the answer to that. Prove me wrong. But including Seattle, I'd guess ... what? Less than five?)

It also handicaps the AL manager, in a small way, moreso than the NL manager who can pick from his entire bench of reserves to arrange his lineup more artfully.

Who here wouldn't agree that, for example, Nomar Garciappara or Jason Giambi wouldn't be a better DH for the AL than Edgar?

I can't get past the idea that future HoF'er Frank Thomas can't get squeezed onto a 32-man roster to play in front of his home fans in a season where he's been pretty darned good (if, perhaps, not AS worthy).

Same with Sosa.

Who here wouldn't agree that, for example, Nomar Garciappara or Jason Giambi wouldn't be a better DH for the AL than Edgar?

I can't get past the idea that future HoF'er Frank Thomas can't get squeezed onto a 32-man roster to play in front of his home fans in a season where he's been pretty darned good (if, perhaps, not AS worthy).

What, and Carl Everett is All-Star worthy?

Thomas deserves to go, and not just for sentimental reasons. (I hope Everett is apologizing profusely to his new teammate.)

Crazy Carl
-.866 OPS
-56.9 RC
-6.51 RC27
-.293 EQA
-52.9 EQR
-17.4 VORP

Bid Hurt
-.952 OPS
-67.2 RC
-7.87 RC27
-.325 EQA
-66.2 EQR
-36.4 VORP

Edgar
-.954 OPS
- 60.6 RC
-7.87 RC 27
-.338 EQA
-65.0 EQR
-40.0 VORP

The difference between Edgar and Thomas is minimal, but it's clear both are among the ten best hitters in the league.

Carl Everett is not.

And, so, no, it doesn't bother me that Edgar will be the full time DH.

WIth all the sure-thing Hall of Fame snubs (Sosa, Thomas, Pedro, Clemens) and all around great players snubs (Brother Giles, Mussina, Hudson, Huff, Nomo, Dotel, Koskie, Millwood), it really got my goat that the biggest outcry was over the omission of a rookie pitcher.

I know that leg kick is fun, but do people think it's really Marichal out there?

Man, I hope Willis gets rocked tonight.

Man, I hope Willis gets rocked tonight.

And I thought I was cynical! (Which I am.) Rooting for a 21-year-old kid to get rocked in an all-star game is harsh, man!

Your point is valid, however. I don't know if I would call Huff, Nomo and Koskie "great," though.

how many A.L. teams have one guy who is "the DH"

Toronto used to.

The Home Run Derby -- which Sosa and Thomas should have been in -- should decide home field advantage for next year's All-Star game. Go Carlos!

Really? They're having "great" years. Nomo's neck and neck with Brown and Schmidt for best starter in the NL this year, Koskie is the Twins' best player and should have been the AL starter at 3B, and young Huff isn't doing so bad with an OPS over .900.

All of them are All-Stars over Willis, who's only barely better than Webb and Seo. (Oswalt was more dominant when he came up in '01.) I wish Willis a good career, but he's not all that and a bag of chips.

I thought you were saying that the players were great, not their years. In that case, Brian Giles isn't having a great year, nor Sosa, nor Clemens, so they shouldn't be there, either. It's all semantics, of course, but I hope Willis doesn't get rocked. It's not his fault MLB has no clue sometimes.

Could he be all that and a bag of peanuts?

Willis mania is insane! What are people smoking? This isn't Prior '02, Oswalt '01, or Gooden '84. He's a good rookie having a good year--he isn't the &#!%?^!$!!!! Cy Young leader! Good lord! Has nobody ever seen a baseball game before? ESPN's Sports Nation Poll has him winning the Cy Young Award with the combined votes of Schmidt and Brown!

Sorry, Gitz. I was using "great" to simultaneously mean "great players having good years and good players having great years".

And besides, Sosa, Giles, and Clemens are having really really really good years. Sosa's OPS is up to .985, Giles is just behind him at .956, and Clemens has got a 56.6 AGS, sixth best among AL starters (and better than Moyer, Zito, and Halladay).

Hey, Jurgen, I can strike *you* out.

Naaaaaa-na-na-naaaa-na.

Oh, please. Kirk Reuter, Wiki Gonzalez, and Jose Conseco could all strke me out.

He's a good rookie having a good year--he isn't the &#!%?^!$!!!! Cy Young leader!

Of course he is. If he has a second half that even marginally matches his first half -- let's say, 10-6 to finish 19-7 -- he's the runaway winner unless someone goes all Doyle Alexander '87 or Rick Sutcliffe '84 on the league.

Now, if you're saying the shouldn't be the leader, that's a different story. But he certainly is the leader.

I personally think Smoltz is going to torch Bobby Thigpen's record, end up with about 62 saves, and win the Cy Young Award by pitching 77 innings.

Now, if you're saying the shouldn't be the leader, that's a different story. But he certainly is the leader.

Um, what? Joe Morgan, is that you?

ESPN Sports Nation aside, Jason Schmidt is the leader. That's why he's starting the All-Star Game. And by any objective analysis, Jason Schmidt should be the leader. And if he falters in the second half, there are a bunch of guys in LA who'll have something to say about it.

Aside from the wins, Willis isn't even the best rookie pitcher out there. Webb has been better, and Seo isn't much worse.

I personally think Smoltz is going to torch Bobby Thigpen's record, end up with about 62 saves, and win the Cy Young Award by pitching 77 innings.

I'm guessing your tongue is jammed deep into your cheek right now but you've got me thinking more generally about relievers winning the Cy Young award and how stupid a notion it is. If one can while pitching a low number of innings, why doesn't Mike Bordick, or any other defensive wiz who barely plays in his part-time status, win a Gold Glove?

Willis is pitching in one of the best pitcher's parks in baseball, and his stats reflect it.

At home:
42 IP, 1.07 ERA, .88 WHIP, .21 HR/9, 7.93 K/9, 3.36 K/BB

Away:
40.1 IP, 3.12 ERA, 1.46 WHIP, .45 HR/9, 9.37 K/9, 3.23 K/BB

Webb, on the other hand, is pitching in one of the worst pitcher's parks in baseball.

At home:
55 IP, 3.27 ERA, 1.11 WHIP, .98 HR/9, 7.69 K/9, 2.61 K/BB

Away:
42 IP, 1.29 ERA, .95 WHIP, .43 HR/9, 7.29 K/9, 4.25 K/BB

For my money, Webb is the mid-season ROY, with Willis a close second.

Meanwhile, just to prove that Schmidt is hands-down the Cy Young winner, he's pitching awesome everywhere he goes.

At home:
59.1 IP, 2.28 ERA, .99 WHIP, .61 HR/9, 10.16 K/9, 4.79 K/BB

Away:
73.2 IP, 2.44 ERA, .95 WHIP, .61 HR/9, 8.80 K/9, 3.79 K/BB

why doesn't Mike Bordick, or any other defensive wiz who barely plays in his part-time status, win a Gold Glove?

Yeah!

But seriously, I don't mind when a reliever wins the occasional Cy Young when (wins aside) there aren't any obvious contenders from the starters. (Eckersley's '92 win was arguably justifiable--just barely--ahead of Mussina and Clemens.)

But is John Smoltz really having a better season than Schmidt, Brown, Nomo, Williams, or Prior--let alone Gagne, Dotel, and Wagner?

Gagne has to be the best reliever in the majors this year. Can someone muster up the relevant numbers? I know that Gagne is on pace to break the K/9 record set by Wagner in 1999. As such, his overall performance justifies some Cy votes.

As the only true CF amongst the AL all-stars look for Vernon to see a good deal of playing time. He should anyways, seeing as this game counts for something.

If I was, say, Mark Mulder, pitching in a tie game with a runner on and then lets say Barry Bonds hits a screaming line drive to straight away center field, I'd probably be hoping that Vernon Wells was there to field it rather than Matsui, or god help us, Everett.

Don't worry, Jason. Matsui's in there because of his bat... I mean, um, Everett's in there because of his bat.. I mean, um, hmmm. Why didn't Cameron and Thomas make the team again?

Come on guys. I'm not "going Joe Morgan" on you. I'm stating reality. The clear favorite to win the Cy Young Award right now is Dontrelle Willis. I'm not saying he should or that there aren't better candidates.

I'm saying, from a PR perspective, Willis would crush Jason Schmidt right now, or in October, unless ...

- The Giants make the playoffs and the Marlins fade horribly.
- Schmidt wins 20 and Willis doesn't.

Both of those things. Not either. Both. The fact is, it's actually pretty likely that both of those things will happen

http://espn.go.com/mlb/allstar03/s/2003/0714/1580480.html
Well, lookie here: Clemens is on the all-star team after all, replacing Barry Zito. Nuts to that. Click my name for the story.

Mick is right: there is a clear difference between who should win and who will. Still, I can't say Willis has enough momentum for the NL Cy Young based on some ESPN.com poll. A similar poll at Rotoworld.com had Roger Clemens winning the AL Cy Young. Ridiculous.

But if Smoltz breaks Thigpen's save record and the Braves win the NL East, he could receive enough votes to take home the Cy Young, which would be absurd, of course. I reckon he might even get some MVP votes in that situation, which would be downright appalling.

People can be as appalled as they like at the prospect of Smoltz taking home hardware. But if the Jays had a pitcher who performed identically to Smoltz this season, where would the team be? Is it too much of a stretch to say leading the Wild Card?

People can be as appalled as they like at the prospect of Smoltz taking home hardware. But if the Jays had a pitcher who performed identically to Smoltz this season, where would the team be? Is it too much of a stretch to say leading the Wild Card?

Sure, the Jays would be better. But I fail to see how that means Smoltz deserves the Cy Young more than someone who pitches 230 innings. The Jays would be better off with Smoltz as the closer instead of Politte but they'd be even more well off with Jason Schmidt in the starting rotation instead of Doug Davis.

Well said, Spicol.