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One of the things I enjoy most about baseball is that it can be played well by a variety of different people, and in a variety of different ways. Every baseball player has his own set of strengths and weaknesses, and his own approach to getting the job done. Also, some players develop a unique on-field relationship with the fans who pay to watch them.


An example of distinctive mannerisms: every Blue Jay fan (at least, those who get to watch games either in person or on TV) knows that Tom Wilson has an unusual batting stance. He leans back in the batter's box like somebody who is getting into a rocking chair butt first. And Tony Batista had an even more unusual stance, which I don't think I need to describe for you in detail (one foot pointing towards home plate, one towards third base, stepping into the box as the pitcher delivered). Everybody can recall Wilson and Batista, but there are a lot of people on this board who probably don't remember Garth Iorg's equally unusual stance, a variation which could be called Charlie Lau Extreme (weight on back foot, leaning way back, helicoptering bat over his head). How much of this information is in danger of being forgotten if we don't write it down somewhere?

As for fan relations: for example, anyone following the Jays in 1989 remembers that Mookie Wilson was greeted by loud cries of "Mooooooooooo" whenever he came to bat. But do you remember that fans used to get on Bobby Cox in 1985 when he wouldn't bring Bill Caudill into close games? There were apparently loud cries of "We Want Bill" as the late innings approached. I only rediscovered that when I went into the microfilm archives of that year's sports pages looking for something else. If nobody remembers this stuff, it'll be forgotten, and that will be a shame.

If I had more money and more time, I'd devote a significant chunk of both to trying to build a repository of this stuff: such as, for example, Lloyd Moseby's habit of wearing both his cap and his helmet when at the plate (or John Olerud's habit of wearing his helmet in the field, for obvious reasons). Since I don't have unlimited money or time, what I want to do is start collecting this information and keeping track of it, and then adding to it as I get the chance.

What I was wondering is: how many unusual mannerisms, fan reactions, approaches, or anecdotes do you remember about Jays of the past? Here's a couple more, to get you started (these are mostly obvious ones, but it's a starting point):

- Dave Stieb used to slam the rosin bag down whenever someone got an unexpected hit off him. You could also tell how well he was doing by how long he took between pitches: like many pitchers, when he was on his game, he couldn't wait to get the ball back so that he could throw another of those nasty sliders.

- Roy Lee Jackson and Steve Trachsel were the slowest-working pitchers I ever saw.

- When Tony Fernandez first came up, he used to sidearm the ball to first.

- Tony Batista had the quickest release of any Jays infielder I've ever seen - he would sling the ball to first practically as soon as he got it.

- The fastest Jay I ever saw was Junior Felix when he first came up.

- When Shawn Green came to bat, the PA system would inevitably play Blur's "Song 2" (the song that has a "woo-hoo!" in the middle of it).

- And no list like this would be complete without a mention of the late 1970's cries of "We Want Beer!"

The Blue Jays have given us a lot of memories, and I, for one, don't want to forget any of them. What little things do you remember? My goal is to remember what it was like to be a Blue Jays fan in 2003, or 1993, or 1985, or whatever.

I'll probably repost this thread every few months or so - if I collect enough of this stuff, I'll summarize it somewhere/somehow.
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_Spicol - Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 02:59 PM EDT (#94680) #
Great idea, Dave.

I always liked how Juan Guzman would run the steps of the stadium as part of his conditioning program.
Mike D - Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 03:06 PM EDT (#94681) #
- George Bell would deliberately lollygag after balls in the corner, which he knew would be doubles whether he hustled or not. And somebody always brought a bell to ring when he was up.

- "Er-nie, Er-nie"

- Joe Carter used to make subtle "make noise" gestures when he was about to come up during a pitching change or mound conference so as to get the crowd going without showing up the opposition.

- It was really tough drying off those metal seats at Exhibition Stadium after a rainfall.

- No outfielder inspired complete and utter confidence of everyone in attendance as Devon White. Once his glove went up in the air, he was getting it.

- Jose Cruz used to wear the double-ear-flap batting helmet.
_DS - Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 03:07 PM EDT (#94682) #
How about Tom Henke and his ridiculously deliberate windup? Or him dropping down sidearm to strike out a guy.
Mike D - Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#94683) #
Good call, DS. And Duane Ward had the highest leg kick in Jays history.
_Rusty - Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#94684) #
- George Bell wearing a hat that was too small for him so that when he would "run" the hat would come flying off

- Dave Parker being the Jays rep in the mid 90s Old-Timers games.
_Matthew Elmslie - Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#94685) #
No outfielder inspired complete and utter confidence of everyone in attendance as Devon White. Once his glove went up in the air, he was getting it.

Except that there was a period of time, about a couple of weeks (I wish I could remember what year) during which White must have been reading his own press clippings, because he started trying to make all these impossible diving catches, and a few balls went for extra bases. Then he smartened up and was great again.

Fondest memory of White: In '92 or '93, there was a fad for the crowd to sing out, "Whoomp! There it is!" (derived from a dance song of the day) during a rally or after a home run. The idiot bandwagon-jumping Toronto fans seized on this fad and adopted it as their own. White, in his naivete, figured that Toronto fans must have been familiar with the song, so that year, when it was his turn to make a speech onstage after the World Series celebration parade, we had this exchange:

Devo: Toronto, where's the party at?
Toronto: (cheers)
Devo: No, you're supposed to say, "Whoomp, there it is!" Toronto, where's the party at?
Toronto: (cheers)
Devo: (shakes his head, smiling, and sits back down)
_Andrew Edwards - Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 03:30 PM EDT (#94686) #
I remember having a sign pinned up on my bedroom wall after the Jays v. Braves World Series that said 'STOP THE CHOP'. I think one of my favourite memories was the way the SkyDome would rock with mocking faux-Indian chants as whenever the Jays pulled ahead.
_Mick - Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 03:36 PM EDT (#94687) #
I'll probably repost this thread every few months or so - if I collect enough of this stuff, I'll summarize it somewhere/somehow.

Why stop there? If there's lots of feedback -- and it looks like there will be -- why not write it up as a 1,500-word (or so) article and submit it to whatever Toronto's equivalent of Dallas' D Magazine is?

It could be in essay form or presented as a "fan in the streets" feature. And the mention of Da Box in a print publication at that level would be ... it'd be ... well ... good.

Let me know if you like this idea and I can help you get started. I do this exact thing all the time for employee publications at AA. Of course, I'm the editor of those publications, so I have less to worry about regarding rejection of a topic, but that's a different bridge.
_Scott Shepherd - Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 03:38 PM EDT (#94688) #


I don't remember the year, but I'll never forget a game in which Juan Guzman started against the Red Sox in Boston.
I'll never forget Cito coming out to the mound to basically chew out Guzman for *not* hitting whoever was at bat. Juan looked like he was about to cry.
Right after that visit, the runner on third base stole home.

I also remember how Duane Ward used to drive me and everyone else crazy when he first started pitching for the Jays. I swear, no one had any idea where the ball was going to go.

And Jimmy Key had to be the unluckiest Jays starter ever. It seemed like he was always on the losing end of 1-0 or 2-1 games (of course, he won a lot of those games too).

Oh yeah, and I remember watching Nolan Ryan pitching his final no-hitter against the Jays (on T.V; not live, alas) in (I think) '93. Almost from his very first pitch, I knew I was in for a treat.
_Matthew Elmslie - Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 03:56 PM EDT (#94689) #
I also remember how Duane Ward used to drive me and everyone else crazy when he first started pitching for the Jays. I swear, no one had any idea where the ball was going to go.

I knew where it was going to go if Lou Whitaker was the hitter.

Didn't Ward have, like, one shirt during his entire time with the Jays? His lucky shirt with the hole in the sleeve?
_Jim - TBG - Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 04:10 PM EDT (#94690) #
http://www.torontobaseballguys.com
I remember Ward being about the sweatiest relief pitcher in baseball history. It could be a blustery September day in Chicago and his cap was drenched after three pitches. To paraphrase Homer Simpson, that guy could sweat like Roger Ebert.
_Phil - Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 04:12 PM EDT (#94691) #
I'm not sure whether I'm aloud to post or not, but here goes. I remember when Rickey Henderson was a playoff acquisition and how he used to catch high pop ups. He would have his glove above his head and when the ball went down he would make a half circle and then make a basket catch. I remember one time when he did that and he either dropped the ball, or got hit by the ball. i laughed so hard at him, but hey, that's Rickey.
Kudos on a great site
_Spicol - Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 04:17 PM EDT (#94692) #
The snatch catch, he called it.
Pepper Moffatt - Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 04:25 PM EDT (#94693) #
http://economics.about.com
The snatch catch, he called it.

That sounds like a not too distant cousin to the beaver shoot.

Mike
_pete_the_donkey - Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 04:29 PM EDT (#94694) #
Fans running across the 'open' part of the field between the grandstand and the 'good' seats, but only on opening day. What a stupid, but fantastic, opening day tradition.
Gerry - Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 04:34 PM EDT (#94695) #
The seats down the line at Exhibition stadium that faced the outfield so you would have to sit in your seat at a 45 degree angle to see the batter

Devon White timing his catches perfectly and looking efortless in CF

Toronto crowds leaving the game while Frank Viola was working on a no-hitter against the Jays.

Kelly Gruber doing the "chop" when the Jays beat Atlanta down in Atlanta

Tom Henke peering in though those thick glasses

Jim Sundberg - the wind, top of the wall, nuff said

Tippy Martinez picking three guys off first in one inning, with Len Sakata catching, in a game at Baltimore

Kenny Williams base running

Dave Stieb's glare and his crotch grabbing

Bobby Cox driving the fans crazy with his platooning in the sixth inning so the wrong guy would be in there to bat in the eight or ninth inning

Thats it for now.
_Matthew Elmslie - Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 04:47 PM EDT (#94696) #
Managers:

Jimy Williams was the manager when I first became a fan of the team. Don't remember much about him other than that he'd always have his hand shoved down the front of his pants when he walked out to the mound.

Cito Gaston was an extremely unenlightening interview... most of the time. When Jerry Howarth would be talking to him on the radio, Gaston's most-used phrase would be, "Well, that's true, Jerry..." But I remember a couple of times when they'd be broadcasting the press conference after playoff games, and some reporter would ask him about some move he made or other, and what if that move hadn't worked, and Cito's response would be, "Then we go home and have a beer!"

Buck Martinez: I have Martinez's two books, From Worst to First and The Last Out. They aren't great literature and there's not a lot of insight to be gained from them, but he does seem to have written them all by himself, and he didn't embarrass himself in so doing. Anybody remember the game show he hosted on TSN? Some sports trivia game, 'Knockout' or something. One of the gimmicks was that they'd put the contestants in shorts and robes and give them boxers' nicknames, like Claude 'The Truth' Themalpachuk. Somewhat on the lame side.
_shill - Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 06:45 PM EDT (#94697) #
Can't recall the exact time or place... cause I was pretty young... but that throw by Jesse Barfield (with his back against the right field wall) to nail a runner tagging from second is definitely worth remebering. Is it just me... or has there ever been a better throw? I heard Shaker (Moseby) talk about it once. Said the guy was out by "two days". Somebody tell me who that runner was. As I recall he had above average wheels...
_jason - Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 08:28 PM EDT (#94698) #
I remember Cliff Johnson would hardly ever swing at a first pitch. He would calmly watch it go by as if he didn't have a care in the world. And yet every once in a while - a pinch hit with the game on the line say - Cliff would swing for the fences. He connected on one that I remember, and maybe a couple more.
_Nigel - Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 08:44 PM EDT (#94699) #
Watching Tony Fernandez for the very first time. I'd heard all about him but never seen him and then seeing this "stringbean" live (in either his second or third game )for the first time and going "Oh my god, this is what we've been waiting for?". Then, not 30 seconds after that seeing him go deep into the hole and throwing someone out and thinking "Oh my God, this is what we've been waiting for!".

The bad feeling in my gut when Bobby Cox decided to go with a 3 man rotation in '85 instead of using Clancy.
_David - Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 09:43 PM EDT (#94700) #
I don't know if anyone can validate this as it was so long ago and I don't even remember which year. Joey Mclaughlin's performance had not been earning him much love from the fans when he was called in to save a game in the ninth. He had razed his beard down to a large Goose Gossage-ish moustache, and with an uncommon fire in his eyes as he proceeded to strike out the side with vicious ease. Alas, whatever relief demon that had possessed him disappeared, and he was back to himself for the rest of the season.
_Grimlock - Thursday, August 14 2003 @ 12:14 AM EDT (#94701) #
Tony Fernandez in his last couple stints as a Blue Jay, coming to bat with possibly the wussiest music of any player in MLB.

"Love will always stand alone... I'll always be your HERO!"

Man.
_Simon - Thursday, August 14 2003 @ 01:31 AM EDT (#94702) #
Don't know if this counts, but I became a fan of the Jays while I lived in Pakistan, and I remember watching the taped WS games at a friend's house. I think I can safely say that we were one of the only Jays fans in Pakistan. Was great watching Carter and Co.

Alas, I wasn't around for the days of Moseby and Barfield, but have heard a lot about them.
_Simon - Thursday, August 14 2003 @ 01:33 AM EDT (#94703) #
Oh and Jacob Brumfield? I remember when he hit two HR's in a game, and he was instantly my hero. I even copied his stance, with the hands by the ears. Nevermind...
_Mike Mac - Thursday, August 14 2003 @ 08:23 AM EDT (#94704) #
Great thread!

For batting stances, I remember being intrigued by Junior Felix's wide stance when he first came up.

I also remember trying to emulate Tony Fernandez' sidearmed throws from deep in the hole. He always seemed to be up in the air, rather than planted, as he made them Of course I lacked the arm strenth at the time and the throws ended up all over the place.

I also experimented with Mark Eichorn's sidearmed pitching style, including the little hop at the end of the delivery.

Finally, every time I think I can't bear another second of Faulds and Cerutti, I think back to Don Chevrier and Fergie Oliver. Even as a kid I knew those guys were bad.
Dave Till - Thursday, August 14 2003 @ 12:23 PM EDT (#94705) #
Wow, thanks for all the responses. I'll add some of my own to this thread when I get a chance.

Why stop there? If there's lots of feedback -- and it looks like there will be -- why not write it up as a 1,500-word (or so) article and submit it to whatever Toronto's equivalent of Dallas' D Magazine is?

I may be being unduly pessimistic, but I don't think there are many print outlets in Toronto that would be interested in an article about the Jays. Right now, the Jays are still out of fashion; when the next wave of prospects hits the beach, and the team shows real improvement, things will change. (I think of us here at Da Box as on the cutting edge of the next big wave of Blue Jay fandom.)

I may write an article up sometime just for my own sake - if I do, I'll take you up on your offer of help. Thanks!
Dave Till - Thursday, August 14 2003 @ 12:31 PM EDT (#94706) #
I think back to Don Chevrier and Fergie Oliver. Even as a kid I knew those guys were bad.

I liked Don Chevrier, especially when he was partnered with Tony Kubek. Fergie, though, was gawdawful. His low point: when told that Al Oliver's wife was writing a book, Fergie assumed that it would have a lot of good recipes in it. Attaway to advance the cause of gender equality there, Ferg.

One recollection, while I'm here: when Henke first came up, he would sometimes drop down sidearm on right-handed hitters when he got two strikes on them. (He stopped doing that in about 1989.) I still remember the first time I saw him throw sidearm: nobody in the park, including Tom and Jerry, was expecting him to change his arm motion. When he zipped a sidearm fastball over the outside corner for strike three, I think Tom Cheek came as close as he ever will to yelling "Holy S$%#!" on the air. (Was David Cone the only other Jay pitcher to use multiple arm angles in the same game? Eichhorn tried a variety of arm angles in his career, but not all at once.)
Craig B - Thursday, August 14 2003 @ 01:46 PM EDT (#94707) #
Was David Cone the only other Jay pitcher to use multiple arm angles in the same game?

Cone was probably the best I have ever seen at this. When he was on, he could throw strikes to the corners from about four different slots, and he could honestly pitch games with nothing but his fastball, just by mixing location and angle and taking a bit off from time to time.

Phil Niekro was also great at this, he went from overhand to low 3/4, but it's easier for a knuckleball pitcher, who depends a little less on precise location.

Now, I'd say Sidney Ponson is the most interesting, even though he usually picks one and sticks to it most of the time. Pedro only drops down to throw the curve (again, location issues) which tends to make it really obvious to the hitter.
_Ryan - Thursday, August 14 2003 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#94708) #
Pedro Borbon would change his arm angle slightly with every pitch, much like Rolando Arrojo.

I remember a few other Jays pitchers copying Cone. Pat Hentgen would occasionally drop down, usually when he already had two strikes on a batter. Edwin Hurtado did it a couple of times, although the pitches wound up over the left-hand batter's box instead of the plate.
_Jim - TBG - Thursday, August 14 2003 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#94709) #
http://www.torontobaseballguys.com
Speaking of Hentgen, who can forget his fake-to-third-throw-to-first move?
_Mike Mac - Thursday, August 14 2003 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#94710) #
Ah, I had forgotten about the Chevrier-Kubek combo. I didn't mind them.
_Matthew Elmslie - Thursday, August 14 2003 @ 04:09 PM EDT (#94711) #
Anybody else remember a half-hour special about the Jays aired on (I think) CTV during the '86-'87 off-season? It was basically a recap of '86 and preview for '87, and prominently featured were three montages of clips, all set to music:

- Tony Fernandez's great defensive plays, with Sade's 'Smooth Operator' as the music
- Mark Eichhorn striking out the world, with America's 'You Can Do Magic' as the music
- various Bell/Moseby/Barfield heroics, with (I think) Dire Straits's 'Brothers in Arms' as the music
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