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JP Ricciardi continues to reshape the Blue Jays organization, and if it seems like it's taking a long time, well, it's a big organization. Yesterday, he not only fired Bob Nelson, but he also fired his title, abolishing the position of Director of Minor League Operations. In turn, JP promoted two young men (and I mean young) to replace Nelson: Charlie Wilson, 30, (Manager, Minor-League Operations) and Andrew Tinnish, 27 (Co-ordinator, Scouting). With Jon Lalonde and Keith Law already playing key roles, the Jays front office may be the first in baseball where you'll hear Choose '80s CDs playing in the reception area.
The Shakeup Continues | 29 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Pepper Moffatt - Thursday, August 21 2003 @ 06:51 PM EDT (#93896) #
http://economics.about.com
I guess I shouldn't bother sending in a resume, as I'm clearly too old to work there. :)

Mike
_Rich - Thursday, August 21 2003 @ 08:34 PM EDT (#93897) #
Bob Elliot is going to need a major angioplasty after this. Just when he thought JP couldn't sack anymore front office staff...

Predictions on how many days it will take ole' Bob to rip JP? Sometimes I wonder if Ricciardi is sacking people just to rile up the beat writers.
Pistol - Thursday, August 21 2003 @ 11:15 PM EDT (#93898) #
Maybe JP is taking reaching your prime at 27 or 28 from the field and extending it into the front office as well.

I better hurry and get my resume in. I'll be over the hill pretty quick.
_Jason Robar - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 07:35 AM EDT (#93899) #
Predictions on how many days it will take ole' Bob to rip JP?

He has a regular column in the Sun on Saturday, so I'll take that.

My question is whether the "All of the Jays 1st round picks from 1992 on have made it to the majors" line will be trotted out again. I mean, it was amusing to read that Eddie Zosky is considered a successful draft pick because he made the majors, but now it's just predictable.
Craig B - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 08:41 AM EDT (#93900) #
My question is whether the "All of the Jays 1st round picks from 1992 on have made it to the majors" line will be trotted out again. I mean, it was amusing to read that Eddie Zosky is considered a successful draft pick because he made the majors, but now it's just predictable.

Kevin Witt... Joe Lawrence... heh heh heh.
_Geoff - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 08:44 AM EDT (#93901) #
Quick Hijack - the 6 Jays going to the Arizona Fall League are: Pete Bauer, Cam Reimers, Jordan Dejong, Russ Adams, Dominic Rich and Tyrell Godwin
Coach - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 09:18 AM EDT (#93902) #
Before being let go on Wednesday, Nelson was Mike Wilner's guest on the FAN postgame show Tuesday night. The Sports Illustrated cover jinx pales by comparison.

Sometimes I wonder if Ricciardi is sacking people just to rile up the beat writers

In my conversation with J.P. last night, he made it very clear that he believes every one of his (off-field) personnel moves has made his organization better, and while he doesn't dislike the writers, their opinions aren't very important.
Pepper Moffatt - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 09:41 AM EDT (#93903) #
http://economics.about.com
Bob Elliot is going to need a major angioplasty after this. Just when he thought JP couldn't sack anymore front office staff...

Speaking of Marxism, what's the over/under on how many Toronto media types compare JP's firings to Stalinist purge?

Mike
Gerry - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 10:43 AM EDT (#93904) #
http://www.nationalpost.com/commentary/story.html?id=ED126149-8520-46A9-8A33-94B513C7DFEB
The National Post today is claiming a radical design of the Jays logo is on the way, September 2nd.

They want to appeal to a new demographic with a new strong, less metrosexual logo.

Click on homepage for the story.
_Tim - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 10:59 AM EDT (#93905) #
"...while he doesn't dislike the writers, their opinions aren't very important."

No kidding.
_Spicol - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 11:12 AM EDT (#93906) #
They want to appeal to a new demographic with a new strong, less metrosexual logo.

If the old one was metrosexual, does that mean all of the old ladies at ballgames with T-logo attire are just as cool as David Beckham?

The article infers that the new logo will be more like the Raptors logo, which it calls "amazing". I really hope it's better than that. I find the Raptors logo to be just as cartoony.
Dave Till - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 11:16 AM EDT (#93907) #
I've never heard the term "metrosexual" before. Here's one definition of the word, which I found on The Word Spy:

"A dandyish narcissist in love with not only himself, but also his urban lifestyle; a straight man who is in touch with his feminine side."

Just the sort of person that would drive a National Post columnist crazy, I suppose.

What would a more macho logo look like? I assume that they're stuck with the blue jay, unless they change the team name to the Toronto Raw Meat-Eaters (or the Toronto Fighting Jays).
Pepper Moffatt - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 11:36 AM EDT (#93908) #
http://economics.about.com
If it's going to be anything like the Raptors, it's going to bomb big time. Logos like that just aren't baseball.

I wish the Jays would copy Naomi Klein and have no logo. (Okay, so I'm not too clever). Just something simple, like the Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, all have. I refuse to wear a Jays cap because they're so hideously ugly and it looks like it's going to get worse instead of better.

I still like my idea of a single lower-case "t" for the home cap and "j" for the away cap. I think they'd sell in bunches.

Mike
_Matthew Elmslie - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 11:39 AM EDT (#93909) #
Jack Domenico was on the FAN this morning. He is, at the moment, a bitter bitter man. He blames the lights situation big time for his team not advancing in the playoffs (while the Jays get all the lights they need) and he's ticked off at the Mariners for signing one of his starting pitchers away. Landry and Rauter were kicking around the idea of his affiliating the team with a ML organization, and he said that as it stands now the Jays don't even talk to him; "they're too busy firing people."
_Jonny German - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 11:41 AM EDT (#93910) #
From the National Post story:

"There's a perception that the Jays are kind of boring and stale," a spy told me. "They want to change that. Be more like the Raptors -- who have a really strong, amazing logo."

Gentlemen, do not get your hopes up... the Raptors logo is the benchmark?!? Our only hope is the 'spy' works for a competing agency to the one that's creating the new logo and he's trying to throw them off.

Also from the Post article:

Said the insider: "The objective is to update the image of the brand to connect with a new demographic."

Anybody think that the "new demographic" is into baseball tradition and the "Keep It Simple Stupid!!!" principle? Ay yai yai... This one of a very few aspects of a pro sports team where the Jays would be smart to emulate the Maple Leafs. Ain't gonna happen.
Pepper Moffatt - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 11:43 AM EDT (#93911) #
http://economics.about.com
the Jays would be smart to emulate the Maple Leafs.

I never thought I'd agree with this statement. But I do. 100%.

Mike
_Spicol - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 11:44 AM EDT (#93912) #
I still like my idea of a single lower-case "t" for the home cap and "j" for the away cap. I think they'd sell in bunches.

I think that would sell to our demographic (at least, I think we're about the same age) since we'll going through a phase of being super nostalgic for our childhoods, especially so for all of the metrosexual Box readers. And you might see it in a 50-Cent or Jay-Z video sometime soon. But will it sell to the 35 and older crowd that makes up the majority of the fans at the Dome? Will some older gentleman please represent his aged-posse and provide his nine, I mean, give us your input?

Has anyone yet seen the navy hat with the white 'T' that I mentioned a few months ago is selling at the Dome?
Pepper Moffatt - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 11:51 AM EDT (#93913) #
http://economics.about.com
Will some older gentleman please represent his aged-posse and provide his nine, I mean, give us your input?

If my father is any indication, then retired people will wear practically anything.

(Just kidding, Dad)

Mike
_Spicol - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 11:55 AM EDT (#93914) #
This one of a very few aspects of a pro sports team where the Jays would be smart to emulate the Maple Leafs.

I think that would be absolutely great, but the name sort of gets in the way of simplicity. To most marketing mavens, the name Blue Jays pretty much necessitates that a Blue Jay be a part of the logo for branding purposes. A maple leaf is naturally simple, so a simple logo is easy. A Blue Jay, however, requires detail.

The organization really need a forward thinking marketing person, who will chuck marketing theory and gaudy traditions of recent past and understand that just because a team is called the Blue Jays, doesn't mean you need a picture of a Blue Jay in the main logo and red, white, blue and black do not have to be the main colours.
_Rich - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 12:29 PM EDT (#93915) #
It's not really fair, Mike, but the over/under has to be 2: Griffin and Elliott, naturally. I'm going to take the over and guess Rutsey will take a couple of shots too.

Whatever they do with the logo, it can't be worse than the current one (can it?). They should hire whoever has done some of the fantastic minor league logo redesigns, like the Tacoma Rainiers or Memphis team. I do hope the Jays don't go KC on us and start donning black.
_Rich - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 12:32 PM EDT (#93916) #
Speaking of Joe Lawrence, he's knocking out hits at a robust .204 clip in Indianapolis. If Gillick can sign Borders as his personal catcher, who will Gord take after Lawrence and Matt Ford? Homer Bush and Tony Fernandez are probably sitting by the phone as I type this...
Dave Till - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 12:58 PM EDT (#93917) #
But will it sell to the 35 and older crowd that makes up the majority of the fans at the Dome?

I'm part of the 35 and older crowd. I prefer the original Jays logo for nostalgic reasons, but I don't really care what logo they use, as long as the Blue Jays win.

But I hope they don't switch their team colours to silver, black and teal, or whatever their marketing droids decide is the colour scheme likely to appeal to whatever demographic they're targeting.
_Jordan - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 12:59 PM EDT (#93918) #
Keep in mind that the Post article was written by Shinan Giovani, who's basically Rita Zekas without the connections, or maybe Rex Reed without the talent. I wouldn't worry too much about anything he has to say concerning the Jays logo. I'd be happy to see at least an alteration in the logo -- the little poofy swipe of the hair is just too precious -- but there's no reason you couldn't keep the basic bird with the bat, but make it a little more intense and intimidating. I like the idea of personifying the "Fighting Jay."
_Matthew Elmslie - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 01:19 PM EDT (#93919) #
The current Jays logo reminds me of Grandpa Simpson's Fighting Hellfish tattoo.

I think when it comes to logos, less is more. But not too much less.
_Jonny German - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 01:35 PM EDT (#93920) #
A maple leaf is naturally simple, so a simple logo is easy. A Blue Jay, however, requires detail.

True enough, but there is a middle ground between a literal representation and a completely abstract concept. How about if the Blue Jay was just a silhouette, either of the whole bird or just the head? Slap a 'T' inside that (or a 't', just to keep Mike happy) and there's your logo to put on the hat. On the jersey a simple arrangement of T, B, and J, in the St.Louis / New York / San Fran tradition.

And mandatory high socks for all players!
_jason - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#93921) #
How about T dot?
_EddieZosky - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 04:36 PM EDT (#93922) #
I think we're on the right track here.

The logo and lettering like you suggest - in a simple blue-grey-white pallete (get rid of the red).
Mandatory high socks.
Piping around the seems (down the front and around the collar) on the shirt a la the old school unis.
Simple Logo above the heart, or team name or city in script across the chest
How about 70's and 80's throwback font for the numbers on the back? Perhaps old schoolize them to fit the rest of the theme.
Pepper Moffatt - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 04:52 PM EDT (#93923) #
http://economics.about.com
The 70's-esque font I love is the one that was on the old Atari 2600 Text Label Cartridges. Apparently it's called "HammerFat":



To see how it looks in Black and Blue, see:

Basic Math

Check out the end-label ("61 Basic Math"). I think the Silver/Black/Blue looks really sharp and fits in with the 70's Jays connection.

Mike
_EddieZosky - Friday, August 22 2003 @ 05:32 PM EDT (#93924) #
That's pretty much the font, but it needs to be broken up into three bars as opposed to being a solid font.
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