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It's a shame that this matinee isn't on ordinary TV in Canada. I'm following along on MLB Gameday with one eye on the AL Central showdown in Chi-town (Loaiza v Radke).

Can Doc close the statistical gap between himself and the #1 Cy Young contender? Stay tuned.
Game 146: 20 for Doc? | 50 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Craig B - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 02:56 PM EDT (#92176) #
Man, I always forget the day games.
robertdudek - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 02:56 PM EDT (#92177) #
Loaiza gave up a 4 spot in the 3rd inning and the Twins are up 4-1 in the bottom of the third. The ChiSox commentators were speculating that only 2 runs would be earned, and this was because an error on a bases loaded double allowed the third run to score and Stewart to go to third. But they said that AFTER a sac fly (the first out) and a single followed the double - it's obvious, in reconstructing the inning, that all 4 runs would have scored without the error.

Is it too much to ask the announcers to have a solid grasp of the unearned runs rule?
robertdudek - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 03:01 PM EDT (#92178) #
Halladay has thrown 37 pitches for 3 shutout innings (2 hit, 1 walk, 1 K). Anyone want to bet against Doc going the distance?
Craig B - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 03:01 PM EDT (#92179) #
I dunno, Robert, I'm a rules maven, but I'm damned if I can follow the unearned runs rule sometimes.

It's one of the worst stats in baseball, and deserves banishment to the lower reaches of wherever it is bad rules go when they die. :)
Craig B - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#92180) #
2-0 Jays now by the way.
robertdudek - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 03:05 PM EDT (#92181) #
The inning in question went: Hit, hit, HBP, double + error, sac fly, single, out, out.

I agree there are some difficult cases, where you have to make some assumptions about possible base running advances. But in this case I think it's clear that the fly ball would have scored the third run and most likely advanced the runner to third, which would then have been plated by the single.
Craig B - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#92182) #
Yeah, that's four earned runs by the rule.
_Matthew Elmslie - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 03:24 PM EDT (#92183) #
Is the Yahoo game updating thingamabob way behind? According to it, we're just going to the bottom of the third, up 2-0.
_Wildrose - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 03:24 PM EDT (#92184) #
My God is Roy dominant today,he looks even better than in his last start. At 54 pitches through 5, the strike-out to end the inning broke a string of 11 straight ground outs.
_Matthew Elmslie - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 03:24 PM EDT (#92185) #
I'll take that as a 'yes'.
_Jacko - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 03:34 PM EDT (#92186) #
http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/gamecenter/live/MLB_20030911_TOR@TB
Check out the CBS Sportsline GameCenter (click my name).

Everything that ESPN GameCast provides, but it also provides a 2D graphic of each pitch location. Tres cool -- it's neat seeing a swinging strike on a Halladay pitch that ends up in the dirt :)
_Jacko - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 03:34 PM EDT (#92187) #
p.s. it works much better in IE than in Netscape/Mozilla...

jc
_Wildrose - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#92188) #
Another error for Hinske on an easy play...he's really in a deep fielding funk. Great throw by Cash to nip the speedy Crawford and keep the inning from spinning out of control.
_Matthew Elmslie - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#92189) #
Only problem with the CBS thing is I have to refresh it myself. Oh well.

These guys need to start hitting. Jeremi Gonzalez, forsooth.
_Duane Grassbauh - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 03:49 PM EDT (#92190) #
I'd say the out call on Crawford is our payback for those badly blown calls in Boston...looked to me like he was easily safe.
_Wildrose - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 03:57 PM EDT (#92191) #
Absolutely out Dave, the Tampa announcers even admit it,they finally showed an angle that conclusively proved a great snap tag by Hudson.Great call by the ump.
_Jacko - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 04:01 PM EDT (#92192) #

Only problem with the CBS thing is I have to refresh it myself. Oh well.


Matt:

Run it in Internet Explorer and it refreshes itself after every pitch (well, at least it does in version 6.0).


These guys need to start hitting. Jeremi Gonzalez, forsooth.


Jeremi Gonzalez was one of the Cubs young arms that was tortured to death in the late 90's by the Jim Riggleman regime.

After a 4 (!) year layoff to recover, he seems to have gotten his stuff back...
_Jacko - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 04:03 PM EDT (#92193) #
BTW, Cash looks tantalizingly close to getting some hits. He knows how to work count, but just not closing the deal.
_Matthew Elmslie - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 04:04 PM EDT (#92194) #
Run it in Internet Explorer and it refreshes itself after every pitch (well, at least it does in version 6.0).

There's my problem. Version 5.0.
Craig B - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 04:12 PM EDT (#92195) #
Big run comes home on a SF to put the Jays up 3-1.
Craig B - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 04:16 PM EDT (#92196) #
Halladay has 88 pitches through 8. Looks like another CG on the way.
robertdudek - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 04:23 PM EDT (#92197) #
Loaiza is out after 7 innings - 5 earned runs, 9 strikeouts, a walk, an HBP and no homeruns allowed. His ERA rises to 2.73. Unless the Sox can score 4 or more in the bottom of the 9th, he'll drop to 19-7.
_Jacko - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 04:24 PM EDT (#92198) #
Woo hoo! Complete game for Doc! 20-6! And the only run was unearned! His ERA is now a coll 3.30.

BTW, Loaiza gave up 5 ER in 7IP, raising his ERA to 2.73,

Yessssssss!

A few more days like this and Roy will get the Cy!
robertdudek - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 04:25 PM EDT (#92199) #
Halladay went the distance, gave up 1 unearned run, struck out 3 walked 2, allowed no homeruns. He threw 93 pitches. He is now 20-6 with a 3.30 ERA.
_Jacko - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 04:25 PM EDT (#92200) #
er, that should have been "...a cool 3.30..."

damn typos...
_Matthew Elmslie - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 04:25 PM EDT (#92201) #
Congratulations to Roy Halladay on joining a somewhat select club (the Luckier-Than-Stiebs).
_Wildrose - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 04:32 PM EDT (#92202) #
Ho -hum just another complete game by Halladay throwing less than 100 pitches. Basically he threw about 75-80, 94-96 mph two seam sinkers in this outing. He imparts such downward movement on the ball combined with the fact he's 6'6" and throws on a vertical plane to begin with ,its almost impossible for hitters to not hit the top of the ball and hit grounder after grounder.
Is anybody in the American league pitching any better than him at the moment?
_A - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 04:36 PM EDT (#92203) #
Pedro looked pretty awsome yesterday. But nothing consistant out of him in the way of going deep into ball games (against Baltimore he put in 8IP but the Martinez of past years would/should have finished that game).
Dave Till - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 04:36 PM EDT (#92204) #
According to ESPN's game log, Halladay gave up 11 ground ball outs to second base. I caught most of the game on radio, and I think they were all routine.

Note to anyone who prefers Loaiza to Halladay: if you were a GM, would you trade Halladay for Loaiza? I don't think so.

93 pitches. Wow.
robertdudek - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 04:44 PM EDT (#92205) #
Dave,

In fairness, the Cy Young isn't given out for "highest future expected value".
_EddieZosky - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 04:47 PM EDT (#92206) #
Congrats on 20 Roy! You deserve the Cy in my book.

(... by my book I mean the creepy scrapbook of newspaper clippings, box scores, unmailed stalker letters and glossy photos I keep of you under my bed)
_Jacko - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 04:55 PM EDT (#92207) #

Ho -hum just another complete game by Halladay throwing less than 100 pitches. Basically he threw about 75-80, 94-96 mph two seam sinkers in this outing. He imparts such downward movement on the ball combined with the fact he's 6'6" and throws on a vertical plane to begin with ,its almost impossible for hitters to not hit the top of the ball and hit grounder after grounder.


Has Halladay switched to throwing more fastballs lately?

The times I've watched him on TV, he's thrown tons of breaking stuff.

Or does he vary his repertoire depending on what's working on a given day?
_Wildrose - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 05:01 PM EDT (#92208) #
Today it was mainly the two seam fastball Jacko, I agree early in the season he threw more breaking stuff.
Craig B - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 05:07 PM EDT (#92209) #
9 5 1 0 2 3

Game score 76. Very nice.

Someone mentioned Martinez... Pedro yesterday was utterly dominant. His shit was moving like a knuckleball and travelling 92-93. If that's what the Red Sox' opponents have to look forward to in the playoffs, Year 85 might do it.
_Mark - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 05:11 PM EDT (#92210) #
Realistically Halladay's stats, particularly the rate stats, are not the best in the league (other than K/W), but he has some great totals and lots of IP, plus the awesome winning streak and 20 wins now. Hudson, Loiaza and Martinez at least have all been better, when they're on the mound.

Nobody (?) seems to mention Foulke, who's somehow (there's a bonus for saves, IIRC) third right now in the AL in pitching win shares (Loaiza 22, Hudson 22, Foulke 19, Halladay 19, Mussina 18)

ESPN has Roy's average game score at "29.1" right now... must be a typo there somehow.

It's gonna be a very close vote I think... everyone has an argument and a counter-argument. I imagine at least 5 guys will get a first-place vote.

If I could pick one guy to pitch a must-win game tomorrow for my team, it would be Pedro. I wouldn't trade Halladay straight up for any pitcher in the AL though, even Pedro (32 next month and not all that durable). Halladay has just the right combination of youth with proven ability.
Craig B - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 05:28 PM EDT (#92211) #
Yeah, I'd take Halladay, mostly on build and demeanour over Zito. It's close.

I can't believe he has 243 innings already. To give you an idea, with three starts left, Halladay already has enough innings to have led the league in each of the last four years. He will almost certainly get 260 easily and may well wind up with more than anyone in the AL since Roger's 271 in 1991.
Craig B - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 05:30 PM EDT (#92212) #
Halladay's last three starts

9 4 1 1 1 10
10 3 0 0 1 5
9 5 1 0 2 3

28 IP, 12 H, 4 BB, 18 K, 0.31 ERA
_A - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 06:16 PM EDT (#92213) #
*Closes mouth, wipes drool from keyboard* WoW. Those are numbers. Well one's a fraction of a number but you get the jist.

I mentioned Pedro and I don't think he's going to be able to do that on short rest through out the playoffs (give him one short rest start in the divisonal and he's cooked the rest of the way).
Dave Till - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 06:36 PM EDT (#92214) #
In fairness, the Cy Young isn't given out for "highest future expected value".

I wasn't even thinking of long-term. Right now - September 11, 2003 - I would rather have Halladay pitching for me than Loaiza. Of course, I'm somewhat biased. :-)
_Spicol - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 07:34 PM EDT (#92215) #
Roy is now leading the "Which pitcher should win the AL Cy Young Award" fan poll on ESPN.com's home page. Loaiza is 2nd, Hudson 3rd and Mussina 4th.
_Chuck Van Den C - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 07:36 PM EDT (#92216) #
Right now - September 11, 2003 - I would rather have Halladay pitching for me than Loaiza.

What, you'd send him back out after 9 innings this afternoon? You're a heartless bastard. ;)
_Mark - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 08:02 PM EDT (#92217) #
The other great thing about Halladay is he eats innings without getting those dangerously high pitch counts. He's at 101.3 P/GS and 13.72 P/IP. I just did a breakdown for the year on his pitch count:

< 80 : 4 starts (avg 5.75 innings)
80-89 : 0 starts (odd...)
90-99 : 10 starts (avg 7.8 innings)
100-109 : 10 starts (avg 7.64 innings)
110-119 : 8 starts (avg 7.5 innings)
>= 120 : 1 start (8 innings, exactly 120 pitches)
_susdajaysfan - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 08:32 PM EDT (#92218) #
An interesting piece of news the most wins by any pitcher since 2002 is Roy Halladay. He is the stuff legends are made out of. Right now if I had to pick any pitcher to go Game 1 in the world series it would be Hallady. I am sure a lot of people would agree. Halladay has taken over Pedro's mantle and considering that the Jays got a pretty easy September it is time to really make his numbers look even more amazing then they already are. It would be a travesty if he did not win the Cy Young.
_susdajaysfan - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 08:32 PM EDT (#92219) #
An interesting piece of news the most wins by any pitcher since 2002 is Roy Halladay. He is the stuff legends are made out of. Right now if I had to pick any pitcher to go Game 1 in the world series it would be Hallady. I am sure a lot of people would agree. Halladay has taken over Pedro's mantle and considering that the Jays got a pretty easy September it is time to really make his numbers look even more amazing then they already are. It would be a travesty if he did not win the Cy Young.
_Shrike - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 08:51 PM EDT (#92220) #
Uh . . . nice rose-coloured glasses you've got on there.
_Geoff North - Thursday, September 11 2003 @ 11:38 PM EDT (#92221) #
How soon can JP lock Halladay up?
_A - Friday, September 12 2003 @ 03:22 AM EDT (#92222) #
How soon can JP lock Halladay up?

I believe that he *could* resign any day he pleases because of where he sits in his current contract. Otherwise, I've got the lock if you have the chain ;-)
Mike Green - Friday, September 12 2003 @ 11:18 AM EDT (#92223) #
Yes, Roy Halladay is a great pitcher, but with this defence behind him, he can be nicked for 3-4 runs per game consistently by a good offence. The lineup has to be stacked with mature left-handed hitters, who are quite willing to go the other way (sort of the antithesis of Tampa Bay- Boston's offence would be a good example).

Against a team that keeps pulling grounders to Hudson, who gobbles up the routine and the not-so-routine gleefully, Halladay will be consistently overpowering.
_Jacko - Friday, September 12 2003 @ 12:31 PM EDT (#92224) #
Here's a question that's been bugging me:

After 2003, how many years of MLB service time will Roy have?

Year ERA W L G GS IP H BB SO
2003 3.29 20 6 33 33 243.0 234 31 180
2002 2.93 19 7 34 34 239.1 223 62 168
2001 3.16 5 3 17 16 105.1 97 25 96
2000 10.64 4 7 19 13 67.2 107 42 44
1999 3.91 8 7 36 18 149.1 156 79 82
1998 1.92 1 0 2 2 14.0 9 2 13

He's got 3 full seasons plus 2 half seasons and one cup of coffee.

Looks like around 4 years and change.

Does that mean he won't be a free agent until after 2005?

jc
Craig B - Friday, September 12 2003 @ 01:10 PM EDT (#92225) #
After 2005 is correct.
Game 146: 20 for Doc? | 50 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.