Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine
We're well past our de-facto limit of 116 comments on Hijack Central IV, so it's time for a new thread. Feel free to discuss any late-breaking news here. Possible discussion-starters include the Twins inking Shannon Stewart, local hero and MVP candidate, to a three-year, $18 million contract.


Other slightly less stunning moves: Montreal and Florida declined arbitration on Guerrero and Pudge, respectively, while the Yankees offered Pettite and Wells arbitration.
Hijack Central V | 118 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Leigh - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 01:07 AM EST (#14540) #
Some interesting starting pitching options not offered arbitration: Suppan, Batista, Helling, Ponson, Sparks
_R Billie - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 01:13 AM EST (#14541) #
Rich Aurilia, Rey Sanchez, and Rey Ordonez are possible shortstop options.
_R Billie - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 01:14 AM EST (#14542) #
I think the Phils offering Millwood arbitration is somewhat stunning as well in light of their $9 million acquisition of Milton.
Leigh - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 01:16 AM EST (#14543) #
I think the Phils offering Millwood arbitration is somewhat stunning as well in light of their $9 million acquisition of Milton.

Must be nice to have that sort of money to throw around on the field.

Sullivan was not offered arbitration by the ChiSox... he would make a decent Jay.
Leigh - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 01:18 AM EST (#14544) #
Actually, Sullivan would be fantastic. I just checked out his numbers... he is better than I thought.
_Scott Lucas - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 01:20 AM EST (#14545) #
Rey Ordonez [is a] possible shortstop option.

For who? The Newark Bears? Surely Toronto wouldn't go after such a pitiful batter.
_R Billie - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 01:25 AM EST (#14546) #
I agree Ordonez isn't great but is he really that much worse a hitter than Rey Sanchez? The criteria of shortstop with major league experience covers the whole spectrum as I suspect it won't be a financial priority. Chris Gomez is another possibility. Unless the Jays are going after Aurilia though they're not going to find a guy who has a good bat at this position.

Ordonez for any significant money is a liability. As a cheap backup he's harmless. Rey Sanchez probably fits better from an "experience with good teams" standpoint.

As I thought, the White Sox weren't serious about offering Sullivan arbitration. He'd be another good sign.
robertdudek - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 01:37 AM EST (#14547) #
I think Rey Sanchez is done. His zone ratings have declined in recent years, which suggests he is no longer a defensive force.
_R Billie - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 01:41 AM EST (#14548) #
The Marlins wave goodbye to Urbina as well. Another possibility for the Jays though granted a bit of a long shot with his probable asking price.
_Toronto - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 01:48 AM EST (#14549) #
Unfortunately the Vlad era is over in Montreal despite an 5-year offer of about $15 million a year. I'm a bit suprised as I thought he'd stay in Montreal if he was given a decent offer, which he was (unless he was looking for many more years). If he ends up in Baltimore he is in no better of a situation in terms of postseason aspirations (and I'd argue worse), and Baltimore, while a small market, doesn't quite have the anonymity of Montreal nor the Dominican players that the Expos did either.

Batista and Sullivan would be two good sigings, and I'm not sure I could think of a free agent reliever I'd prefer more than Sullivan that is still on the market, aside from Keith Foulke.
_Cristian - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 02:15 AM EST (#14550) #
I wouldn't consider Baltimore a small market. Peter Angelos spends with the best of them and if you include Washington D.C. in the market (as Angelos does) then the O's play in one of the 7-10 largest markets in baseball.

As for Guerrero, I'm shocked that the Expos didn't even offer him arbitration.
_R Billie - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 02:27 AM EST (#14551) #
The problem with Guerrero is he likely could have compared himself to guys like A-Rod, Jeter, Ramirez, and Delgado in terms of his marquee value. The Expos it seems can't afford that calibre of contract even for one year.

It's a shame...I thought a five year $75 million contract is a great deal. Clearly they think they can get more out of the Angels or (more likely) the Orioles. I guess we can route for the Angels to get him as he's not a guy that will cost them compensation and might eat most of their remaining budget. Meaning the Jays' compensation pick would stay in the second round.
_A - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 03:12 AM EST (#14552) #
I'm cross-posting this because I didn't realize we had a new Hijack Thread...

Instead of continually posting, I've collected all of the players who were not offered salary arbitration by the deadline. Strutze and Lidle are the only two Jays on the list. There were a couple of clubs who didn't have the names of their arbitration decisions on either the ESPN newswire or their official sites (I believe they were Cleveland and Minnestoa). In total there are 100 names on this list.

Miguel Batista
Scott Erickson
Kerry Ligtenberg
Antonio Alfonseca
Shawn Estes
Mark Guthrie
Dave Veres
Doug Glanville
Kenny Lofton
Troy O'Leary
Tony Womack
Eric Karros
Van Poppel
Ron Villone
Rick White
Brian Moehler
Wilson Alvarez
Royce Clayton
Glendon Rusch
Todd Ritchie
Vlad Guerrero
Rafael Palmeiro
Juan Gonzalez
Ismael Valdes
Ivan Rodriguez
Arthur Rhodes
Brian Jordan
Ricky Henderson
Fred McGriff
Andy Ashby
Roberto Alomar
Carl Everett
Tony Graffanino
Scott Sullivan
Jose Mesa
Kelly Stinnett
Turk Wendell
Terry Adams
Mike Williams
Greg Maddux
Gary Sheffield
Javy Lopez
Kent Mercker
Darren Holmes
Shane Reynolds
Roberto Hernandez
Matt Franco
Darren Bragg
Pedro Astacio
Jay Bell
Tony Clark
Todd Walker
John Burkett
Jeff Suppan
Todd Jones
Robert Person
Bill Haselman
Marvin Benard
Jose Cruz, Jr.
Andres Galarraga
Sidney Ponson
Benito Santiago
Eric Young
Rich Aurilia
Travis Lee
Ben Grieve
Rey Ordonez
Al Martin
Terry Shumpert
Jeff Nelson
Antonio Osuna
Roger Clemons (Retired)
Rick Helling
Todd Hollandsworth
Reggie Sanders
Matt Stairs
Julian Tavarez
Armando Benitez
John Mabry
Mark McLemore
Rey Sanchez
Keith Osik
Jose Guillen
Steve Sparks
Tanyon Sturtze
Cory Lidle
Eric Owens
Scott Spiezio
Mike Myers
Raul Mondesi
Mark Grace (Retired)
Tony Batista
Albert Belle
Hector Carrasco
Deivi Cruz
Brook Fordyce
Greg Norton
Mark Sweeney
Darren Oliver
Chris Stynes
Gregg Zaun
Shane Halter
Ugeth Urbina
_Andrew Edwards - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 06:23 AM EST (#14553) #
Thanks A, good list. Lots of juice there for JP.

I think Rey Sanchez is done. His zone ratings have declined in recent years, which suggests he is no longer a defensive force.

Somebody or other made the comment, looking either at DRA or UZR, that defensive ability seems to more or less decline from your first appearance in the majors. Good defence is clearly related to age.

However, if he was starting at a much higher point, an older shortstop can still be better than a younger one. Bordick was better than Woodward last year, and I expect that Sanchez would be too.

No way we sign St. Rey. Gloves grow on trees, might as well find one that doesn't carry a brand name.
_A - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 06:26 AM EST (#14554) #
You can add Every Day Eddie from the Twins to that list.
_A - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 06:36 AM EST (#14555) #
If Astascio would take a paycut to be in the 1.5M range with incentives relative to his number of innings (he had season ending surgery after 47IP last year), he seems like another candidate as a solid #3. Which we already have, but an Ace with two #3's and a four isn't too bad. To get a sense of his career numbers, Astacio, over 12 seasons posts a 4.50+ era (keep in mind the Coors effect) and has a respectable 2.35 K/BB.
_Kristian - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 07:00 AM EST (#14556) #
Roberto Hernandez might not be a bad option to help shore up the bullpen. He has closed before and could at least help to mentor Lopez. He had a tough year last year but if the price is right why not. Other pitchers on that list that we could pursue are Rhodes, Lightenberg and Mike Williams.
_Andrew Edwards - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 07:34 AM EST (#14557) #
NO ASTACIO!!!!!

His elbow's barely attached, and he's, IIRC, highly flyball-prone, which doesn't seem to work too well in SkyDome.

Incidentally, the Jays non-tendered Lidle and Sturze, and, of course, offered to Escobar.
_Geoff - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 08:11 AM EST (#14558) #
What's the word on arbitration for Tim Worrell? Rincon? Where are you guys obtaining this info?
_Kristian - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 08:15 AM EST (#14559) #
Tim Worrell is reportedly close to signing with 2 teams in the running. The Braves are one team and the other is unknown according to rotoworld.com
_A - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 08:19 AM EST (#14560) #
Andrew, I remove Astacio from consideration. I was unaware of the extent of his health risks.

Geoff, this info is off of ESPN's newswire and from the clubs' official sites.
_Ryan01 - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 08:34 AM EST (#14561) #
Worrell was not offered arbitration and as Kristian said, one of the Braves and a mystery team are close to signing him according to Rotoworld.
_Ryan01 - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 08:43 AM EST (#14562) #
Also according to Rotoworld, Wilson Alvarez was offered arbitration but seeing as he's only a type C free agent, he still wouldn't cost any picks (Dodgers would get a sandwich pick after the second round but nothing from us, IIRC).
Pistol - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 08:49 AM EST (#14563) #
Nice job with the list, A.

Before his injury Astacio was worth taking a risk on. Now he's probably not worth more than a minor league deal.

Here's that list in alpha order by first name:

Al Martin
Albert Belle
Andres Galarraga
Andy Ashby
Antonio Alfonseca
Antonio Osuna
Armando Benitez
Arthur Rhodes
Ben Grieve
Benito Santiago
Bill Haselman
Brian Jordan
Brian Moehler
Brook Fordyce
Carl Everett
Chris Stynes
Cory Lidle
Darren Bragg
Darren Holmes
Darren Oliver
Dave Veres
Deivi Cruz
Doug Glanville
Eddie Guardado
Eric Karros
Eric Owens
Eric Young
Fred McGriff
Gary Sheffield
Glendon Rusch
Greg Maddux
Greg Norton
Gregg Zaun
Hector Carrasco
Ismael Valdes
Ivan Rodriguez
Javy Lopez
Jay Bell
Jeff Nelson
Jeff Suppan
John Burkett
John Mabry
Jose Cruz, Jr.
Jose Guillen
Jose Mesa
Juan Gonzalez
Julian Tavarez
Keith Osik
Kelly Stinnett
Kenny Lofton
Kent Mercker
Kerry Ligtenberg
Mark Grace (Retired)
Mark Guthrie
Mark McLemore
Mark Sweeney
Marvin Benard
Matt Franco
Matt Stairs
Miguel Batista
Mike Myers
Mike Williams
Pedro Astacio
Rafael Palmeiro
Raul Mondesi
Reggie Sanders
Rey Ordonez
Rey Sanchez
Rich Aurilia
Rick Helling
Rick White
Ricky Henderson
Robert Person
Roberto Alomar
Roberto Hernandez
Roger Clemons (Retired)
Ron Villone
Royce Clayton
Scott Erickson
Scott Spiezio
Scott Sullivan
Shane Halter
Shane Reynolds
Shawn Estes
Sidney Ponson
Steve Sparks
Tanyon Sturtze
Terry Adams
Terry Shumpert
Todd Hollandsworth
Todd Jones
Todd Ritchie
Todd Walker
Tony Batista
Tony Clark
Tony Graffanino
Tony Womack
Travis Lee
Troy O'Leary
Turk Wendell
Ugeth Urbina
Van Poppel
Vlad Guerrero
Wilson Alvarez
_Ryan01 - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 09:03 AM EST (#14564) #
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20031208&content_id=613480&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
Thanks Pistol,
I noticed that you have Guardado on your list. However, he was offered arbitration by the Twins, so he's probably out of consideration.
_pete_the_donkey - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 09:13 AM EST (#14565) #
I love Julian Tavarez's numbers after he was moved to the 'pen last year. Especially considering the sub-par Pirates defense he had behind him.

How I'd spend my $8 million:

Tavarez $1.5
Sullivan $1.5
No-Name Glove SS $0.5
Ponson $4.5

Lopey gets to prove himself as the closer.
Pistol - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 09:14 AM EST (#14566) #
Whoops. I thought it was odd if the Twins didn't offer him arbitration - that makes sense. I just just cutting and pasting and sorting in Excel.

Of course, I thought it was odd the Braves didn't offer arbitration to Shef.......
Mike Green - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 09:17 AM EST (#14567) #
What does the refusal of the Expos to offer Guerrero arbitration mean? Guerrero is one of the top 10 players in the game and he is in his prime. In arbitration, he would get $15-$16 million for one season. But, this is the default option for him. He's more likely to get $15 million a year on a 3 or 4 year contract as a free agent.

So, the Expos have a foregone a 1st round draft pick because of the very limited risk that they will have to pay Vlad $15-$16 million for one year. This is not a rational business decision. But then, the Expos do not have an arms length relationship with MLB.

There are other names on the list that do not make business sense in light of the free agent signings to date. It would not surprise me if a collusion grievance is coming shortly.

Anyways, the list is chock full of names that should be of interest to the Jays.
_Jonny German - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 09:21 AM EST (#14568) #
This thread was started by Joe? Who is Joe?
_Greg Os Fan - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 09:37 AM EST (#14570) #
Unfortunately the Vlad era is over in Montreal despite an 5-year offer of about $15 million a year.

I doubt the Orioles will offer Vlad more than that. Remember, Angelos has been burned by big contracts to guys who come up lame (Belle, Hentgen, Erickson, Segui, etc) and Vlad does have that back problem ...

What are the odds that Vlad signs with NOBODY before opening day?
_Gwyn - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 09:59 AM EST (#14571) #
Hijacking the Hijack.....

Commissioner Moffatt - when is BFFL Winter Trading ?
Pepper Moffatt - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 10:03 AM EST (#14572) #
http://economics.about.com
I'm accepting proposals for dates. I don't want to be dictatorial.

Any suggestions?

I think I'll get Coach to start a new thread RE: Winter Trading.

Cheers,

Mike
Craig B - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 10:05 AM EST (#14573) #
"Joe" is Joe Drew, who isn't listed on our authors' list but probably should be (actually, that list is currently under revision... expect it to disappear at some point and have it replaced by something else).

Joe is our technical expert (along with Gwyn Price) and handles relations with the good folks who run our server.
Joe - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 10:25 AM EST (#14574) #
http://me.woot.net
Er, yes. I should have introduced myself.

Hi, I'm Joe.
_A - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 10:38 AM EST (#14575) #
Sorry about the Guardado mistake. I was just skimming articles and must have missed a word. It happens when you're supposed to be writing term papers and haven't slept in 30 hours :-)
_Blue in SK - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 10:39 AM EST (#14576) #
Interesting list.

Question. Why would the Twinkies spend $18M on Shannon Stewart? Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for Stew but, don't the Twins have an excess of Grade A OF prospects including Restovich and Cuddyer (sp?). Are they maybe thinking about making a run at it next year or maybe the signing is to appease the fans, but it doesn't seem to make sense from a baseball perspective. Isn't there most pressing needs at 2nd base and getting some more pop into their lineup, especially at 1st base and the corner OF spots?
_Jurgen - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 10:41 AM EST (#14577) #
Why would the Twinkies spend $18M on Shannon Stewart?

That's a good price for a near-MVP.
_Kristian - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 10:45 AM EST (#14578) #
I think the Twinkies will now work hard to move Jacque Jones. Stewart can play left, Hunter in center with either Cuddyer or Restovich in right ( most likely Cuddyer). Stewart gives them the leadoff hitter they need to set the table and at 6M a year its not a bad contract at all.
_Jonny German - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 11:00 AM EST (#14579) #
Suppan, Helling, Sparks... WHY? If a guy doesn't even have an outside shot at being a #2, I'm not interested. Why block the young guns with #4 & #5 filler? There's Ponson, but I see him as a significant step down from Escobar without being much cheaper. For Batista I'd go as high as $10 for 2 years with a 3rd year option kicking in based on innings pitched. That might not get it done, so I look at trade options. Here are some numbers:

Miguel Batista - 32.8 years old (as of today)
Year	G	GS	IP	ERA	WHIP	BAA	K/BB	K/9	HR/9
 2001 48 18 139.1 3.36 1.24 .226 1.50 5.82 0.84
 2002 36 29 184.2 4.29 1.31 .245 1.60 5.47 0.59
 2003 36 29 193.1 3.54 1.33 .267 2.37 6.62 0.61
 Career 254 121 902 4.39 1.43 .264 1.57 6.01 0.84


Sidney Ponson - 27.1 years old
Year	G	GS	IP	ERA	WHIP	BAA	K/BB	K/9	HR/9
 2001 23 23 138.1 4.94 1.43 .289 2.27 5.47 1.37
 2002 28 28 176 4.09 1.34 .258 1.90 6.14 1.33
 '03-AL 21 21 148 3.77 1.28 .258 2.33 6.08 0.61
 '03-NL 10 10 68 3.71 1.21 .255 1.89 4.50 0.79
 Career 177 166 1097.1 4.54 1.38 .271 1.88 5.64 1.21


Kelvim Escobar - 27.7 years old
Year	G	GS	IP	ERA	WHIP	BAA	K/BB	K/9	HR/9
 2001 59 11 126 3.50 1.15 .204 2.33 8.64 0.57
 2002 76 0 78 4.27 1.53 .246 1.93 9.81 1.15
 2003 41 26 180.1 4.29 1.48 .270 2.04 7.95 0.75
 Career 301 101 849 4.58 1.46 .258 1.89 7.89 0.89


As far as shortstops, my number one choice is Tony Graffanino. He can play second and third as well as short, and hits lefties well, so he'd be an ideal guy to give Hudson & Hinske occasional days off as well. The rumours say he's talking to Boston, so he may not be an option as he'll get more money and prestige in Beantown. Moving down the list, I'd rather put up with Jose Hernandez's ridiculous strikeout rates than watch the likes of Sanchez / Ordonez / Gomez and their wet noodle acts.

I guess we can route for the Angels

Road trip! California! Sweet!
_Blue in SK - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 11:09 AM EST (#14580) #
I guess I still don't understand the reasoning. Yes, he had a good second half but in my opinion not deserving of consideration of MVP and yes the Twins need a lead off batter.

However, what if the Jays would have signed Stewart to the same contract - I have a feeling most of us would have said he isn't worth that much, especially since the Jays have younger prospects that can give us near Shannon's level of production for much less money.

Aren't the Twins in the same boat as the Jays as far as financial considerations go (maybe even a little worse off), and don't they also have replacement options from within their organization. They already traded AJ Pierys.... Perinsyz ... their catcher for financial reasons and because they believe that Mauer is their catcher of the future. Mauer has even less experience than Restovisch or Cuddyer who have both been up the majors for a cup of joe. They also lost Hawkins, who they might have been able to keep with some of the money they gave Shannon.

It's not a bad signing in terms of the money, i.e. the Twins didn't overpay, but I don't know if it was a priority to re- sign him.

Regardless, I wish Shannon the best of luck with the Twins. I enjoyed watching him play (especially when he was stealing bases earlier in his career) for the past 5+ years and really enjoyed his laid back attitude.
Mike Green - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 11:55 AM EST (#14581) #
I'll try to guess the Twins' reasoning for you. They need a leadoff hitter; Jacque Jones .335 OBP was really hurting. They don't really need a 1B with Mientkiewicz and Morneau in the wings. They don't need another corner OF. They're satisfied with their rightfield options.

They do need a second baseman, but there is a shortage on the market, and salary room wouldn't help (I don't buy this one). They'd rather have Stewart than another year of Pierzynski, because Mauer is close enough (I don't really buy this one either).

You never know. It might all work out for them. Rivas is only 24, and he's had 3 years in the majors, so this may be the year that he takes a small step forward into a .270/.340/.400 hitter, although he's shown little sign of it yet. Joe Mauer might be very good in 04. Mientkiewicz might make a nice trading piece, with Morneau taking over.

If you want the definitive word, wait until February and Aaron Gleeman will probably lay it all out.
Mike Green - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 11:59 AM EST (#14582) #
It's probably mentioned somewhere on this site, but AP reports that Kaz Matsui is signing with the Mets. Who will move to 2B, Matsui or Reyes?
_A - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 12:14 PM EST (#14583) #
_A - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 12:14 PM EST (#14584) #
I will always preview my posts.
I will always preview my posts.
I will always preview my posts.
I will always preview my posts.
I will always preview my posts.
I will always preview my posts.
I will always preview my posts.
I will always preview my posts.
_Blue in SK - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 12:17 PM EST (#14585) #
Thanks Mike, I guess as you mention there are a few holes in their reasoning. I forgot about Aaron and look forward to his take on the signing, but if I recall properly from a previous visit to his blog he was a supporter of Shannon for MVP so I can probably guess his take on it.

As for Reyes, apparently the Mets GM went to visit Reyes and explain to him that he (Reyes) would be moved to 2nd in favor of Matsui. Reyes agreed to the move.

That presents a possibility that could maybe be explored with the Jays. Maybe the Mets would consider a Reyes for O-Dawg plus prospect(s) transaction. Reyes takes over for Woody, whom we shift to 2nd this year and eventually one of Adams or Hill (who both apparently are better suited for 2nd) take over.

Not that this likely to happen, no make that it won't happen, but it would address the respective needs of both teams. The question becomes what would the Mets want on top of Hudson. Maybe Cash (the catcher, to replace Piazza) and one of Werth/JFG and a B type pitching prospect.
Dave Till - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 12:28 PM EST (#14586) #
Wow, lots of stuff happening lately. A few threadjacks:

- I'm wondering whether MLB told the Expos to non-tender Vlad. The Expos almost contended last year, and that won't do, dontcha know: too embarrassing.

- I don't see the Expos mess resolving any time soon. Would MLB get sued by Expos minority investors if and when the 'Spos leave Montreal? What's happened with that?

- The Montreal mess isn't as bad as the Milwaukee mess, though. The Brewers, after conning Milwaukee taxpayers into buying them a ballpark, have rewarded their faithful fans by slashing payroll to the bone. This is despicable.

- The whole Yankees vs. Red Sox thing is a piece of fascinating human drama. It's not even about winning any more - it's about getting ahead of the other guy. What will Boss George do if the Sox trade for A-Rod? Buy the entire Japanese League? (I expect George to get on the phone and try to scoop up A-Rod for himself - unfortunately for him, right now all he has to offer is dollars.)

- I hope A-Rod does get traded, even if it's to a divisional rival. It's fun when big names get moved around - it gives you more reason to look forward to the next season.

- Speaking of which: it's too bad the Jays' budget doesn't allow them to pick up somebody like Maddux. A big name would attract attention, which currently is focused, laser-like, on the Air Canada Centre. (Of course, the Jays always seem to do badly whenever casual fans briefly focus their attention on baseball.)

- If you're looking for an off-season fix, and have high-speed access, MLB is offering downloads of recent and classic games for $3.95 US. Last night, I watched part of game 6 of the 1975 World Series on my computer. If you haven't seen Luis Tiant pitch, you owe it to yourself to do so: in game 6, he once dispatched a Cincinnati Red by pausing in mid-motion, twisting his back, looking up to the sky, and then delivering a changeup to the outside corner. The hitter, mesmerized, flailed helplessly at the pitch. The Sox fans were so into Tiant that they would sometimes react to Tiant's pitching mannerisms - I've never heard fans cheer in mid-delivery before.
Pistol - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 12:33 PM EST (#14587) #
I forgot about Aaron and look forward to his take on the signing, but if I recall properly from a previous visit to his blog he was a supporter of Shannon for MVP so I can probably guess his take on it.

Actually, no. Just the opposite.

Not that this likely to happen, no make that it won't happen, but it would address the respective needs of both teams

I think it's safe to assume that the Mets wouldn't trade a 20 year old middle infielder who's already in the majors for Hudson and a few B prospects.

I don't think Reyes at 2nd is an issue anyway. If you can play short well you can certainly play 2nd well.

And I don't think the Jays would have taken both Hill and Adams if they didn't think one of them could handle SS.
_Andrew Edwards - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 12:34 PM EST (#14588) #
I forgot about Aaron and look forward to his take on the signing, but if I recall properly from a previous visit to his blog he was a supporter of Shannon for MVP

You've definitely confused Aaron with someone else, since (a) Stewart for MVP is completely crazy, and Aaron's not completely crazy; and (b) Aaron's seriously one of the best baseball writers anywhere right now, and I'd be surprised if you forgot about him.
Dave Till - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 12:35 PM EST (#14589) #
I forgot to add: I still think that Budzilla's goal is to contract the Expos, and then expand. This would mean one more fat expansion fee for MLB.

Somebody, in another thread, suggested that Vlad might wind up being signed by nobody. This would be the baseball equivalent of beheading a political opponent and mounting his head on a spike to serve as a warning to others. (Either that, or he's going to Baltimore as part of a hidden deal to allow the Expos to move to Washington. Choose whichever conspiracy theory works best for you. :-))
_Andrew Edwards - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 12:36 PM EST (#14590) #
If you're looking for an off-season fix, and have high-speed access, MLB is offering downloads of recent and classic games for $3.95 US. Last night, I watched part of game 6 of the 1975 World Series on my computer.

I can't get the damn thing to work. Won't let me view the file I downloaded. Dammit. I really wanted to watch Kirk Gibson hit that homer.
_Andrew Edwards - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 12:37 PM EST (#14591) #
Somebody, in another thread, suggested that Vlad might wind up being signed by nobody.

How to tell if there's really collusion.
_A - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 12:45 PM EST (#14592) #
I had a prof who, when discussing collusion in terms of monopolies, expressed that he is supremely confident there are only a small, small number of illegal monopolies since only a tiny number of people have enough time and/or brain power to divise such elaborate schemes.
...I think Bud has A LOT of time.
_Donkit R.K. - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 01:04 PM EST (#14593) #
About Maddux - there's talk that he'd sign for 2 years at 5 million per to help lead a young staff into contention. Maybe this is just a pipedream by Giants/Padres fans out there, but if not would he not at least be worth looking at for 2 years at < 12 million total? It would get you a good no. 2 and amazing mentorship for Doc / Lurch / Lilly / Arnold and all the other proepects in Spring Training. I hope J.P. is willing to give the man a call, I know I would.
_Jordan - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 01:15 PM EST (#14594) #
The Matsui signing has its own thread now.
Mike Green - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 01:31 PM EST (#14595) #
Spencer Fordin has an interesting column on Quiroz on the official site. He suggests that your Fighting Jays would like to promote Quiroz to the big club in the summer, assuming his early performance in Syracuse merits it.

He also uses the phrase "small sample size" when talking about Quiroz' performance in Venezuela. Ahh, the insidious intrusion of sabermetric language into straight reporting. What's next, VORP, DIPS or RARP?
_SportsmanTO - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 01:33 PM EST (#14596) #
Wow a lot of stuff in the world of beisbol (LOL)

My take on the Stewart signing while it doesn't make a whole lotta sense due to the fact that the Twins have a lot of OF type prospects coming up but there's been lots of disappointment in the way that the offseason has gone. In fact Torii Hunter expressed his own doubts and basically said if he knew that the offseason would turn out like then he wouldn't have signed his contract. I think that the signing is good from the PR perspective and from the fact that Stewart finally gives the Twins a tablesetter at the top of the order for their anemic bats.

It'll be very interesting to see how Stew's hammys can hold up on the Metrodome turf. (tho I think they're installing new turf for this coming season)

As for guys that weren't offered arbitration that i'd like to see in a Jays uniform? Here's my list:

Greg Maddux: can be the veteran leader of a young staff

Miguel Batista: a young(ish) pitcher that has some good stuff and could eat up some innings

Tony Grafanino: a pretty good bat and could be used as a utility man as he plays multiple positions

Kerry Ligtenberg: A good arm to bolster what is essentially our weakness

I'm in favour of making Aquilino Lopez the Jays closer, at least to see how he can handle it. He seemed to thrive on the tough situations last season.
_Johnny Mack - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 01:52 PM EST (#14597) #
Just found this site: The Baseball Cube, as a result of this: NDF Roundtable Discussion - Baseball On The Internet. Both seem quite interesting.
_R Billie - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 02:41 PM EST (#14598) #
Hey if the Jays were willing to pay Escobar a 2 year $10M contract then why not Greg Maddux? I can't think of a better fit if he's really willing to settle for that. He'd be worth his money just for the wisdom he'd impart on the rest of the youngsters, especially in 2005. Plus a Halladay, Maddux, Lilly, Hentgen, Towers rotation ain't chopped liver.

I think San Fran is probably in the best position to sign him for about that much money though and they actually have a shot at post-season play. It would be silly not to at least investigate Maddux. Add him and Arthur Rhodes and I'd be pretty confident in challenging 90 wins.
Pistol - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 02:56 PM EST (#14599) #
Hey if the Jays were willing to pay Escobar a 2 year $10M contract then why not Greg Maddux?

I'd imagine the Jays would do that in a second if they could.

I just don't think it's realistic, and especially since Maddux has expressed a desire to remain in the NL and/or on the West Coast.
_Scott - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 02:59 PM EST (#14600) #
Jays sign Lightenberg, according to fan590 and other baseball forums. No details yet.
_Jordan - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 02:59 PM EST (#14601) #
Quick thought on Stewart -- who do you suppose had the higher OBP last year, Stewart or Jose Cruz Jr? And who do you suppose stole more bases?

Yup -- the answer to both is Junior (though to be fair, the difference was minimal). It strikes me that if Cruz is non-tender material and will likely sign somewhere in the low couple of millions (providing more power and much better defence than Stewart), you have to wonder what exactly Terry Ryan was thinking here.
_Blue in SK - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 03:00 PM EST (#14602) #
Lightenberg story confirmed on Sportsnet. No contract details.
_R Billie - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 03:02 PM EST (#14603) #
Apparently signing Michael Tucker WILL cost the Giants potentially their first round pick. And the signing was announced just hours before the deadline to offer arbitration which makes it all the more mind boggling.

The Mariners and Giants have donated three draft picks to the Royals for players who would have been sure non-tenders, either through generousity or stupidity. I know the Mariners for certain can't afford to give up draft picks just to sign guys like Ibanez. It's too bad the Jays can't enjoy such friendly treatment.
_Blue in SK - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 03:02 PM EST (#14604) #
Lightenberg story confirmed on Sportsnet. No contract details.
_Jordan - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 03:05 PM EST (#14605) #
Thanks, guys -- Ligtenberg's signing is now in its own thread.
Mike Green - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 03:12 PM EST (#14606) #
Why not Greg Maddux indeed? He had a rough first half, but then bounced back in the second and pitched about as well as he usually has for the last 3-4 years. You'd want him to go no more than 90 pitches/start, and to skip a start or two over a season, but in this role, I'm quite confident that he'd be effective. Not to mention that he'd be great for McGowan, Arnold and Bush.

Greg Maddux and Arthur Rhodes? Sign'em if you can.
_Kristian - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 03:30 PM EST (#14607) #
The Twins were obviously choosing between Jones and Stewart. I guess they like Shannon better at the top of the order so now they will trade Jones possible for some starting pitching prospects as besides JD Durbin there system is very thin.
_Donkit R.K. - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 04:33 PM EST (#14608) #
Someone mentioned that the Giants had a real shot at the playoffs as a reason Greg would sign there instead of T-O. With Maddux, Ligtenberg, and Rhodes and Graffanino (for example)added to the Jays, do you not think they have a legitimate shot? They still won't be W.C. or division favorites, but contenders for sure IMO.
Lucas - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 04:59 PM EST (#14609) #
http://www.aarongleeman.com
If you want the definitive word, wait until February and Aaron Gleeman will probably lay it all out.

I appreciate the "definitive word" thing, but what does the "wait until February" part mean?

I forgot about Aaron and look forward to his take on the signing, but if I recall properly from a previous visit to his blog he was a supporter of Shannon for MVP so I can probably guess his take on it.

I am shocked and appauled by the idea that anyone would think that, even in a confused state. :)

You've definitely confused Aaron with someone else, since (a) Stewart for MVP is completely crazy, and Aaron's not completely crazy; and (b) Aaron's seriously one of the best baseball writers anywhere right now, and I'd be surprised if you forgot about him.

You guys are so much cooler (and more complimentary) than all those dorky Twins fans I hang out with. And, just to clarifty, I am completely crazy.

The Twins were obviously choosing between Jones and Stewart. I guess they like Shannon better at the top of the order so now they will trade Jones possible for some starting pitching prospects as besides JD Durbin there system is very thin.

Bingo. I'll have a LOT more on the Shannon/Jacque situation on my blog (www.aarongleeman.com) tomorrow.
_Blue in SK - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 05:08 PM EST (#14610) #
My apologies Aaron. I read somewhere (obviously not on your blog) that Shannon deserved MVP consideration.

They say the first to go is your memory.

I look forward to your insight about Shannon's new deal.
_Scott Lucas, Li - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 05:08 PM EST (#14611) #
I hope A-Rod does get traded, even if it's to a divisional rival. It's fun when big names get moved around

No it isn't.
_Kyle S - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 05:36 PM EST (#14612) #
Am I just a retard, or is baseball's arbitration system kind of screwy? The Braves are basically prevented from re-signing Maddux to a market value contract because to do so they have to offer him arbitration, which he can accept and then get a ridiculous 1-year contract number like last year.

Despite the obvious lack of sanity Schuerholtz is displaying recently (not offering Sheff arbitration when the Yankees are waiting to snatch him up? Claiming Gary Mathews Jr? Signing Albie Lopez to a 4.5 million dollar contract [okay, that was a while ago, but still, ALBIE LOPEZ!]?), you'd think the Braves would love Maddux at a reasonable number: 2 years, 5 to 6 million. However, if I understand correctly, he'd get about 10 million plus dollars if the case went to an arbitrator, even though no team in baseball would be willing to pay him that amount. What gives?
Mike D - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 05:57 PM EST (#14613) #
ESPN Insider is reporting that the Jays have given up on Tim Worrell after an aggressive courtship; he's leaning towards Atlanta. Hence Ligtenberg, I suppose.

Meanwhile, the Jays have jumped to the top of ESPN's rumour list for Miguel Batista. With Texas, St. Louis and Atlanta as the co-bidders (read: no Yankees or Red Sox), we've got a legitimate shot.

Admittedly, though, the ESPN rumour list is almost always wrong...
_Jordan - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 06:29 PM EST (#14614) #
I would've preferred Worrell over Ligtenberg, but either would have been fine.

Batista sure would be nice -- DIRC that the Jays now have about $6M left to play with? He's still not a #2 guy, but I've kind of given up much hope that the Jays will be signing any free agents to fill that bill (a trade remains a possibility). Batista, Hentgen and Lilly would be a more than capable backup band to Halladay. Batista, though, probably isn't getting up in the morning for less than two years, $5M per. Keep your fingers crossed.

I can't access Rumour Central (which is, indeed, almost always wrong), as I'm not an ESPN Insider. But for some reason, I started receiving ESPN The Magazine a couple of months back, without ever paying for it. I'm in the mag business myself, and I'll tell you, that publication scares me. Sometimes you literally can't tell the ads from the copy.
Pistol - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 07:28 PM EST (#14615) #
Associated Press
CHICAGO -- Bartolo Colon was close to an agreement with the Anaheim Angels, The Associated Press learned Monday, a contract that would give the team one of the top pitchers on the free-agent market.

While neither Colon nor the Angels discussed the talks Monday, both Anaheim and the Chicago White Sox believed the right-hander was on the verge of a deal with Anaheim, said two baseball officials who were familiar with details of Colon's negotiations with the two teams. The pair spoke on the condition of anonymity.

Anaheim offered a $48 million, four-year contract, one of the officials said. Once a preliminary agreement is reached, the right-hander still must pass a physical.



Looks like that 2nd rounder for Escobar will be a 3rd rounder shortly.
_Gwyn - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 07:33 PM EST (#14616) #
DIRC that the Jays now have about $6M left to play with?

Assuming ~$7m for HLH and ~$2m for Lilly then the Jays are right about $44m by my reckoning, so youre bang on Jordan
Coach - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 07:59 PM EST (#14617) #
Looks like that 2nd rounder for Escobar will be a 3rd rounder shortly.

Too bad, if true, but we thought this might happen. Of course, the Jays still get the sandwich pick at the end of the first round, and two third-round picks are better than one.

The Angels aren't fooling around this winter; meanwhile, the Mariners have "replaced" Mike Cameron with Raul Ibanez. I know everyone's already conceding the wild card to one of the Beasts of the East, but Anaheim fans have reason for optimism again.
_Spicol - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 07:59 PM EST (#14618) #
Insiders will also see the first "official" rumour about Toronto being a possible destination for Scott Sullivan. Of course, the Ligtenberg signing may have changed that.
Leigh - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 08:21 PM EST (#14619) #
Perhaps the "Insider" reads Batter's Box
_gid - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 09:09 PM EST (#14620) #
I forgot to add: I still think that Budzilla's goal is to contract the Expos, and then expand. This would mean one more fat expansion fee for MLB.

To me it would be more attractive to buy a pre-existing organization in place than to pay a franchise fee and have to build a complete organization from scratch. Certainly any new franchise will put in their own key people, and maybe make changes up and down the organization (ala Blue Jays scouting changes), but having the choice of who to replace and when to replace them seems a lot more desirable than having to hire everyone from scratch. So, MLB has a financial interest in keeping the Expos organization at least reasonably intact. Additionally, assuming the club is losing money, they have an interest in selling it as soon as possible, which would presumably explain any lobbying that Bub might be doing in order to get a taxpayer-financed stadium in place somewhere.

The above assumes that the equity of the Expos' minority shareholders is insignificant, or at least would be offset by the presumed greater selling price for an existing organization compared to just a raw franchise. Actually, how much of the Expos does MLB actually own, compared to the minority shareholders?
_SportsmanTO - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 11:23 PM EST (#14621) #
"I forgot to add: I still think that Budzilla's goal is to contract the Expos, and then expand. This would mean one more fat expansion fee for MLB."

Is there REALLY a market for more baseball franchises? DC has their problems due to Angelos always complaining about territorial rights and at the moment they don't even have a suitable stadium. Sure RFK is adequate for the short term but the only way they get a new ballpark is if they squeeze the tax payers for money and I just don't see that happening. This is, after all the same market that lost a franchise not once but TWICE!

Portland Oregon also has ballpark issues, in fact I don't even think they have a suitable temporary ballpark.

The best place to put a new MLB franchise IMO would be Mexico City. It would give MLB good publicity and expand the fanbase to minorities. The major problem however is monetary as the Peso would have even more problems then our CDN Dollar in the baseball marketplace.

P.S. I wouldn't mind Bud looking for expansion if it meant a team in Brooklyn. I'm pretty nostalgic about Brooklyn baseball. I've read many books on the Brooklyn Dodgers and it pains me to know that O'malley moving the Dodgers to LA was event that took away the average Joe Fan's baseball innocence.
Leigh - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 11:42 PM EST (#14622) #
The best place to put a new MLB franchise IMO would be Mexico City.

I know that it is sad social commentary, but I know from playing Baseball Mogul that Mexico City does not have a high enough average personal income to support a team.
_Spicol - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 11:48 PM EST (#14623) #
I know that it is sad social commentary, but I know from playing Baseball Mogul that Mexico City does not have a high enough average personal income to support a team.

There's 20 million people in Mexico City. Only Tokyo and NYC are larger. The poverty is extensive, which brings down the average income, but there are way more than enough middle class and upper class Mexicans to support a Major League team.
Leigh - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 11:53 PM EST (#14624) #
Who knew that Baseball Mogul didn't provide an accurate portrayal of the socio-economic demographics of Mexico?
_Spicol - Monday, December 08 2003 @ 11:54 PM EST (#14625) #
That said, I think Mogul lists Mexican fans as "Fickle" which may or may not be true.

Or am I thinking of Detroit? Same thing.
_Cristian - Tuesday, December 09 2003 @ 12:13 AM EST (#14626) #
Since we are discussing Mogul, I'd like to point out that moving the Expos to Edmonton or Vancouver doesn't work. I did, however turn the Brewers into a powerhouse by moving them to Columbus.
Dave Till - Tuesday, December 09 2003 @ 10:20 AM EST (#14627) #
The best place to put a new MLB franchise IMO would be Mexico City. It would give MLB good publicity and expand the fanbase to minorities.

Are there crime and safety issues in Mexico City?
_Gwyn - Tuesday, December 09 2003 @ 12:21 PM EST (#14628) #
Meanwhile back in Gotham City....

The Evil Empires new outfield plans appear to have hit a little bump in the road. Sheffield is apparently now in the Boss' bad books for asking for another $3 million and Lofton has been offered a deal by the Padres
_Mick - Tuesday, December 09 2003 @ 12:54 PM EST (#14629) #
Tim Worrell has signed with the Phillies.
Pistol - Tuesday, December 09 2003 @ 01:11 PM EST (#14630) #
ESPN.com
The Phillies signed free-agent reliever Tim Worrell to a two-year contract believed to be worth about $6 million, ESPN.com's Jayson Stark reported Tuesday.


Makes you wonder what the Jays were offering.
_Kristian - Tuesday, December 09 2003 @ 02:25 PM EST (#14631) #
The Phillies get a closer to be a set up man, the Mariners get the same in Guardado and so do they Yankees in Gordon. Its too bad some of these guys werent interested in one year deals at possibly less money to be the "MAN" at the back end of the bullpen. So who does this leave on the market besides Urbina and Benitez? Competitive Balance lives. Now who closes in Minny? Balfour? Crain? Johan Santana? Damm I just traded Crain in a keeper league.
_Kristian - Tuesday, December 09 2003 @ 02:26 PM EST (#14632) #
If I were the Jays I would take a flier on Bobby Howry. Invite him to spring training and see how healthy he is. Any thoughts?
Leigh - Tuesday, December 09 2003 @ 02:41 PM EST (#14633) #
FoxSports says that the Braves are about to sign John Thomson.
Gerry - Tuesday, December 09 2003 @ 03:30 PM EST (#14634) #
The Evil Empires new outfield plans appear to have hit a little bump in the road. Sheffield is apparently now in the Boss' bad books for asking for another $3 million and Lofton has been offered a deal by the Padres

There are conspiracy theories about. Some have suggested the delay is a smokescreen by the Yankees. You see they agreed to a deal (reportedly) with Sheffield last week. If they had signed him last week Atlanta would have received Yankee draft picks. So when there was no announcement of the deal, Atlanta started to threaten to file a complaint with the commissioners office. Then the stories came out about the contract not being done. Atlanta did not want to offer arbitration (based on the Maddux similar situation last year) so they get nothing for Sheff.

The truth? Time may tell.
_Kristian - Tuesday, December 09 2003 @ 04:42 PM EST (#14635) #
Buster Olney has a great column on espn.com on how Sheffield not signing with the Yankees could be a blessing for the Evil Empire. He has a great point, Sheffield at 35 is a DH candidate with Williams and Giambi so the Yankees might be better off with Vladimir Guerrero instead of Sheffield.
_Kristian - Tuesday, December 09 2003 @ 05:30 PM EST (#14636) #
Sullivan just signed with Kansas City. Another reliever off the market. The Royals have done well to resign Leskanic and then get Sullivan in their pen.
_Cristian - Tuesday, December 09 2003 @ 05:52 PM EST (#14637) #
I've only been reading his columns for about a month now but I've yet to see a great Buster Olney column on espn.com

Personally, I have a hunch that Atlanta will make a play for Vladimir before all is said and done. They have already jettisoned Sheffield, Lopez, and Maddux. Lopez will cheaply be replaced by Estrada and the Thompson signing leads me to believe that they won't be going after any marquee names for the rotation. I know they were going to drop their payroll but they can probably bring Guerrero in for 13-15M and still have a lower payroll than last year.
_Kristian - Tuesday, December 09 2003 @ 06:00 PM EST (#14638) #
"I've only been reading his columns for about a month now but I've yet to see a great Buster Olney column on espn.com"

Okay maybe the column wasnt great but his point on Sheffield not signing with the Yankees was a very interesting one. Personally I think Vlady is going to Baltimore with Lopez or Irod, the Yankees or the Angels.
_Young - Tuesday, December 09 2003 @ 06:15 PM EST (#14639) #
I don't think the Jays will be paying money to someone who was a closer to fill a closer's role. Trade for one maybe, but as we have seen with Koch, the closer's role is really just a name.
Actually, I take some of that back, there are a few guys I would love the Jays to get if we can pay top dollar, Rivera, Smoltz, Gagne.
_steve - Tuesday, December 09 2003 @ 06:58 PM EST (#14640) #
maybe looking at robert person as a #2 starter would be good. he is coming off an injury i think but he used to be #1 with the phillies
_Young - Tuesday, December 09 2003 @ 07:20 PM EST (#14641) #
Gee, what is KC doing signing so many relievers? Well, any more than one is enough for them. What about starters for the Royals?
Mike Green - Tuesday, December 09 2003 @ 08:08 PM EST (#14642) #
Aaron, "the wait until February" comment referred to your article last February (I think) that laid out the entire Twins major league and prospect situation by position. I'm hoping that you'll do it again in 04, because it was a really illuminating piece. Who knows, a Bauxite might do the same for the Fighting Jays.
_SF - Tuesday, December 09 2003 @ 11:48 PM EST (#14643) #
Buster Olney is the best sportswriter in the business. If you don't know, now you know.
_Jurgen - Wednesday, December 10 2003 @ 12:02 AM EST (#14644) #
Here are the major RP signings so far this off-season:

Eddie Guardado 3 yrs, $13M (Seattle)
Tom Gordon 2 yrs, $7.25M (Yankees)
LaTroy Hawkins 3 yrs, $11M (Cubs)
Paul Quantrill 2 yrs, $6.8M (Yankees)
Shigetoshi Hasegawa 2 yrs, $6.3M (Seattle)
Tim Worrell 2 yrs, $5.5M (Phillies)
Mike Timlin 1 yr, $2.75M (Bosox)
Kerry Ligtenberg 2 yrs, $4.5M (Blue Jays)
Felix Heredia 2 yrs, $3.85M (Yankees)
Rod Beck 1 yr, $1.85M (Padres)
Steve Kline 1yr, $1.7M (Cardinals)
Curtis Leskanic 1 yr, $1.375M (Royals)

Looking at it this way, J.P.'s done good. It's a shame we couldn't get Hawkins or Quantrill, but given the market it wasn't an unreasonable amount to pay for Ligtenberg.

I'm sure Leskanic is kicking himself right about now, but Allard Baird has had a pretty good off-season. Letting Ibanez good and signing Matt Stairs for a cool million? Allard, have you been reading Moneyball?

I'd be very very concerned about the future of the Mariners.... overpaying for Guardado and Ibanez rather than risking arbitration with Rhodes and Cameron? Yeeesh.
_Jurgen - Wednesday, December 10 2003 @ 12:10 AM EST (#14645) #
Whoops. Forgot Chad Fox: 1 yr, $1.2M back with the Marlins.

I haven't seen the details of Scott Sullivan's contract yet.
robertdudek - Wednesday, December 10 2003 @ 12:20 AM EST (#14646) #
I think Hawkins is the best of those guys, therefore I think the Cubs got the best deal.
_S.K. - Wednesday, December 10 2003 @ 12:21 AM EST (#14647) #
On Sheffield: I read an article on Prospectus speculating that the Yanks were waiting to announce his signing in order to have another spot open on the 40-man roster for the Rule V draft. Either that or the arbitration reason - they're both pretty crafty.

As opposed to the Giants, who signed Michael Tucker hours before midnight on December 7 and force-fed their 1st-rounder to the Royals. Neyer proposed that the Giants don't want draft picks because they can't afford to sign them. Does that seem idiotic to anyone else?
_Lefty - Wednesday, December 10 2003 @ 12:58 AM EST (#14648) #
Thomsons gone now as well. To the Braves for 2 yrs. $6.5 in garaunteed salary. To me, this one hurts. Though he ain't the proverbial 2 pitcher he would have been awful useful and I think maybe represented the most value for money. This tells me to expect Batista or Armando now.
_Young - Wednesday, December 10 2003 @ 01:17 AM EST (#14649) #
I think people here wanted the Jays to sign Thomson to sign if he can be had for an average annual salary of 2.5 million or less, which he got more...
Over at Primer, people were wondering what happens to the A's if Tejada takes them up on arbitration.

OK, what can he get? 15 mil? The big 3 SS is making 11.5 (Nomah), 19 (Jetes) and 23 (Arod) million.

And secondly, what happens if he wins a big figure like that? There was discussion that teams can cut players on non-guaranteed deals based on performance. Can the A's stretch this a bit and say that since Dye is in the final year of his contract (12.5 including buyout) that they can cut his non-performing butt and pay him 25% of his salary? Probably not right?
_Kristian - Wednesday, December 10 2003 @ 08:39 AM EST (#14650) #
JP Riccardi was just on the Fan 590 and had some interesting comments. He said they were "shocked" not to get Tim Worrell. Even Worrell's agent was surprised according to JP but Worrell seemed to want to stay in the NL. He also was saying that they have given a deadline to another starter to accept an offer before the meetings in New Orleans. It would seem that this would be Batista. He said if they dont get the starter they might switch gears and really try to shore up the bullpen even more as well as getting a shortstop to share time with Woodward.
Pistol - Wednesday, December 10 2003 @ 09:07 AM EST (#14651) #
After seeing what Worrell is making with the Phils ($5.5 for 2 years) and what the Jays paid KL ($4.5 for 2) I was a little surprised that the Jays didn't land Worrell as well.
_Jordan - Wednesday, December 10 2003 @ 09:10 AM EST (#14652) #
Sullivan got two years as well. That really seems to be the price of admission with most decent relievers these days.

Too bad about Worrell, but as someone esle said, there's not a huge gap between him at Ligtenberg.
Coach - Wednesday, December 10 2003 @ 09:18 AM EST (#14653) #
I'm sure Leskanic is kicking himself right about now

For some guys, it's really not about the money. Maybe he just loves K.C.; I've never been there, but I know some people who think it's great. Also, Leskanic will approximately double that guaranteed amount if he reaches some very reasonable IP incentives. Agreed, Jurgen, that Baird has done a nice job.

Speaking of the Royals and adding to your very convenient list, it's two years for Scott Sullivan at $4.7 million -- again putting the Ligtenberg deal in perspective. Sullivan, however, was on the DL with shoulder tendinitis as recently as last August, so two guaranteed years is a high-stakes roll of the dice.

Too bad about Worrell; it sounds like the Jays were in the two year, $5.5 million ballpark but what can you do? The guy would rather set up in Philly than close in Toronto. Not everyone is clamoring to become a Fighting Jay.
_Jeff Geauvreau - Wednesday, December 10 2003 @ 09:20 AM EST (#14654) #
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/features/031209rule5preview.html
Baseball America has a Rule 5 Draft Preview , this is a great piece on Teams that could lose multiple players in the Rule 5 Draft. The Pirates , Jays ,Reds and Braves are the teams mentioned that could get hit hard.

Click my name for link , This piece is open to all BA readers !
_Jim Acker - Wednesday, December 10 2003 @ 09:26 AM EST (#14655) #
On the radio JP said that Worrell simply wanted to stay in the NL because it was a comfort thing. His agent was really surprised too, that he didn't sign with the Jays. JP also said that the starter they are pushing for isn't your typical number 2 guy. So we'll have to see.

Given what the other middle relievers have signed for, how much should Arthur Rhodes get?
_Jordan - Wednesday, December 10 2003 @ 09:27 AM EST (#14656) #
Ladies and gentlemen ... your 116th post! New Hijack Central coming soon.
_Jordan - Wednesday, December 10 2003 @ 09:28 AM EST (#14657) #
Damn you Jim Acker .. damn youuuuuu!

(Funny how easily that phrase rolls off the tongue.)
Hijack Central V | 118 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.