I understand, not surprisingly, that Gregg Zaun has been called up to replace Myers. What surprised me is how useful a player Zaun has been over the years. He's not the second coming of Johnny Bench but his career line compares nicely with Myers:

Myers 3000 AB/ .256/.314/ .396
Zaun 1500 AB/ .246/.332/ .371

He's Myers with a little more patience and a little less power. It's funny, in my minds eye I associate him with the baaaaaaaaaad Royals of a few years ago and assumed he was totally useless. Not true.

Eric "Brooks Robinson" Hinske's not in the lineup tonight against Santana:

Blue Jays
R. Johnson rf
C. Gomez 3b
V. Wells cf
C. Delgado 1b
J. Phelps dh
D. Berg lf
K. Cash c
O. Hudson 2b
C. Woodward ss

Twins
S. Stewart lf
D. Mientkiewicz 1b
C. Koskie 3b
T. Hunter cf
J. Jones rf
L. Ford dh
H. Blanco c
C. Guzman ss
L. Rivas 2b

There is no way that Dave Berg is anything close to a ML-average hitting corner outfielder...

Quite a power core eh: Wells, Delgado, Phelps and,um, Berg. Interesting lineup decision-making.

Berg has got to go...Clark is here now, Sequea could be an IF utility type, even Woodward could probably play 3B-SS-2B (I've seen him pegged as a "super utility" on this site for the Jays when they are ready to contend) although not terribly well.

On the pregame show, Carlos Tosca estimated that Myers would be out 4-5 weeks at least. If he has any setbacks, it could easily be a lot longer than that. This was no minor sprain, that's for sure.

Beware what you say about tonight's game, kids. Somebody [ Reply to This ]

I should never be allowed to post links. It's that simple. Never mind what I was trying.

Watching the Yanks and A's on GameDay: nobody out, Cairo on second - Jeter sacrificed! I assume it was a bunt and not chicken entrails ...

This is going to sound strange, but I actually think tonight's a big game for the Jays. A win and they're unquestionably relevant again in the AL at 8-12 and rising.

It'll be their second straight series win, and they'll trot out a fired-up Justin Miller tomorrow against a whiplashed Kyle Lohse. They need Batista to keep the ball down, and for Santana to leave the ball up. Should be a good one...

I'm not so sure that Berg shouldn't get the at-bats against righty pitchers. Cat and Hinske both struggle against lefties and if we are playing Clark against righties in place of Johnson, he's getting a fair amount of at-bats there. Plus, Clark himself only has a career .222 OPS against lefties in the majors. (Yes, I'm being facetious with his 9 at-bat sample size.)

When you consider the struggles of Cat, Hinske and Hudson against lefties, I don't really have a problem at this point with replacing a couple of them with Berg and Gomez. Plus, we don't face our next lefty until Sunday in Mark Buehrle, so if we're going to keep Berg around you might as well give him some playing time, especially since he really can't be any worse than Cat against lefties.

As a Santana owner, I'm a little concerned - his velocity's down and he looks like he's steering the pitches. As a Jays fan --- in yo' face! 1-0 good guys

Nice start. Sparky singles and scores on a Gomez single helped along by an error by Jones.

Delgado had "hurt" in his eyes before that swing. Double got to the wall in a hurry.

He's baa-ack!

Carlos has now had an XBH in 7 straight games. Nice to see; he's really coming around now.

Wells is still struggling though. Another infield popup.

2-0 Jays early.

Anyone else realize they were holding their breath in that inning? Release it when El Artista got the weak grounder to short on the 3-0?

Baseball lamaze ...

I agree with Mike D, this is a big game. Series wins are huge. Especially when you're 7-12 and playing good teams.

Nice bit of opposite field hitting by Hudson - taking that pitch to right. I think we're going to see a lot of hits from the Jays tonight - I hope we see a little patience too. Then we might really have the beginnings of a stretch of good games.

It will help if Batista keeps on looking good too.

Cash HBP, ODog Single......1st and 2nd nobody out. A couple more would be great here.

As someone posted in an earlier game thread ... nice to see the OTHER guys booting it around. E6 and a run in on a DP ball.

Hee hee hee.

3-0 Jays, first and second, one out. Time for a long ball.

Ooh. Walked GOMEZ on five pitches. Sacks juiced and VW coming up. Slump ending AB? I say hack at the first one, Vernon!

Is there an echo in here? Where is everyone? Is it my birthday? And why is VW 0-2 against a lefty who is obviously struggling?

Something is definately wrong with Santana. This is the not the same pitcher of the last few years.

Hudson struggles in the Bronx, giving up a 4-spot to New York in the 4th, but Mussina continues his mediocre season and it's 4-4 after 4.

You could just see a DP coming out of that.....geez, V-Dub is struggling.

Vernons grounds into a DP.

Was that pitch Wells swung at 2 or 3 feet outside? If you look up "pressing" in the baseball dictionary, there'd be a picture of that at bat.

On a more positive note, Batista has looked pretty good out there.

Okay, confession time. How many of you were thinking GIDP when Wells stepped up?

The man is just rolling his wrists over every outside pitch he sees (save for the foul ball off the milk jug).

I was, mainly because Vernon has been killing me int he BBFL.

I saw a pop up coming

Faulds - "Off the milk JUG!"
Candiotti - "Trying to open the CAN"
Little things like that kill me... ;-)

I saw a pop up coming

Naive optimist.

I had "K" in the dub-pool that time. Oh well ...

Batista continues to struggle. He's already thrown 30 pitches with one out in the second. Even if he escapes this jam he's not likely to pitch deep into this game.

That first swing by Rivas was U-G-L-Y. If he gets on, it's kangaroo court time for Batista.

Of course having to face Guzman and Rivas at the bottom of the line-up tends to help your pitch count!

Not a good AB for Rivas. Caught looking.

Speaking of high pitch counts, over in Baltimore, Gil Meche has thrown 70 through 2 and Riley has 77 through 3. And the score is only 1-1.

Guzman out. Rivas out. Is Gleeman too young for an ulcer?

How can a team with 100 outfielders and no middle infielders not do something about their problem?

Menechino singles home Durazo after he reached on Clark's fielding error and advanced to second on a single by Melhuse. 5-4 A's in the top of the 6th with runners on for Kotsay.

Whack! Lineout, Delgado. Whack!! Lineout, Phelps. Still a good sign.

Gardenhire needs to grab a baseball phrasebook, look at his second baseman and find the phrase "Play yourself out of a job".

Wow.. two references to the baseball dictionary/phrasebook in one thread.

Anyone got any others?

The hitting is so clearly back. Nice.

After Kotsay and Kielty couldn't bring home any more runners Hudson has an easy 6th striking out Giambi and getting Posada to hit into a DP.

Cash waves in futility at a big bender and the Sportsnet announcers praise his "nice cut". Of course, Cash comes back and drops a lead-off opposite-field single to right.

Just shut up, Harry.

Nice, back to back singles... way to keep "barking" O-dawg...
(ughh to Rob Faulds)

Just for fun: I think Vernon comes up with men on this inning (two out my prediction) - let's predict NOW.

I'm voting "K" again - taken on a 2-2 pitch.

I'll join you Harry.... but I predict another 1-out GIDP.... history repeats itself

If Vernon comes up he grounds to third.

Doubles by Hatteberg and Durazo off Gabe White net another for Oakland and it's now 6-4 A's. Quantrill comes in to face Marco Scutaro.

I'll be the token optimist and say a double from Vernon.

I'll be the token optimist and say a double from Vernon.

Hmm, maybe by posting it twice, he'll homer.

Hmm, maybe by posting it twice, he'll homer.

Small mercies: Riley is out of the game in Baltimore (3-2 Seattle with two of his runners in scoring position). He had well over 100 pitches in 3+ innings.

4-0 Jays - guess VW leads off the next inning after He-Man Gomez ground into the DP.

Did anyone just see that Lebron James Powerade commercial? If that wasn't doctered, wow!

Okay - "heads up play by Chris Woodward" - gotta agree - man on second, grounder to short, throws and tags out the lead runner at third with one out.

"I LOVE winnin', man! You know? Like, it's better than losin'?"

Someone get Vernon some glasses.... horrible swings at horrible pitches

"K" for Vernon - not taken, but I claim my Psychic Hotline grab-bag prize ...

good play by Woody, but an even better play by Gomez to block the plate to make sure he could get the tag on Ford, who took a pretty nasty slide into Gomez' ankle (although he seems fine).

"I LOVE winnin', man! You know? Like, it's better than losin'?"

I gotta agree, especially with Delgado moving like he's Rickey Henderson taking second ;)

What WAS Delgado thinking? I mean, he took the extra base (second on a "double" after a seeing-eye single to short left-centre), but he should have been tossed out. WTF????

How soon before all AL pitchers stop throwing Phelps fastballs? He looked terrible on the breaking ball from Santana.

No way, Delgado was playing smart... as soon as I saw the middle infielders trotting slowly, and Hunter crawling to the ball, it reminded me of all the times slow rollers like that turn into doubles in the world of Video Game baseball.... not to mention CARLOS was HUSTLING

Ordinarily, I would say "cool" that Carlos is hustling - and I still like it! - but the number of "Tony Fernandez Specials" he's been pulling on the basepaths this week, I was wondering if his head was in the game.

But the closeups of his eyes when he's at the plate tonight, man, I don't know, I think he's got that Mike Singletary stare going. Da Cat is BACK.

As soon as Faulds shouted that Delgado was heading for second, my reaction was "Please, for the love of God, no!"

God must've heard my prayers on that one.

That was just a coincidence. I'm a Padres fan.

Are the Cardinals still in St. Louis?

WOW - what a catch by Wells

Holy crap. At least Wells' slump is only at the plate........

Walking Rivas should turn into a run against Batista (if not a smack aside the head from Patterson) and it did. Batista is grinding this one out but he's really not that sharp. 77 pitches through 5 should let him get through one more inning and maybe two.

As a purely subjective comment, Hudson looks alot better hitting righthanded this year than he did last. The numbers may not show that but his swing looks quicker and more compact.

Several comments:

1. Nice grab by Wells. At least he's finding a way to contribute. The absence of a backup CF means that Wells won't get many chances for days off this year. I'm not sure that a day off would necessarily help him re-focus mentally on hitting, but it couldn't hurt.

2. Batista, ostensibly Escobar's replacement this season, is looking too much like Escobar for my tastes. Great stuff, questionable confidence in that stuff, too much nibbling for strikes... After struggling with his control throughout his career, Batista seemed to get a handle on it in 2003, walking less than 3 men per 9 innings. He seems to have wonky mechanics this year, changing pitch by pitch.

3. I can't believe that anyone would have me pining for John Cerutti, but Tom "Mr. Obvious" Candiotti is working on it.

4. Faulds has added to his bizarro repertoire."Inside for a strike" is a staple of his, as well know. Tonight he seems to have added "on the outside corner" for pitches that are balls, low and away.

Vernon is our new Designated Fielder!! No more batting for him

What happened with the Yanks.... 5 run comeback to lead 9-8 now!? Anyone have details?

Kerry Ligtenberg in....Is he there just to get out Hunter, then a lefty for Jones?

I can't say that I was wild about bringing Batista out for the 8th. If he had enough to come back out for the 8th then he certainly had enough to carry on after walking the leadoff hitter.

Chad Moeller has hit for the cycle for the Reds and it's only the 7th inning.

Er, I mean AGAINST the Reds. Moeller is a Brewer.

Captain Hook has gone away, starting pitchers are here to stay.

Last night I griped that Tosca wasn't proactive and sending in a reliever at the start of the 9th, to let Lilly exit the game on a positive note and take away the risk of a 9th inning meltdown.

Tonight, I can't see what the point was to send out Batista to start the 8th. He pitched well enough to win, but was labouring. The bullpen was fresh and set to go. Why wait for Batista to fail before making a move?

I can't reconcile this new Tosca with the one we're used to.

Jacques Jones has a fantastic 9-pitch at bat ending with a single off Kerry

Chuck I agree with you. My point was that if you are bringing him back out then to hook him after a leadoff walk is tantamount to saying you shouldn't have brought him back out.

Who is this guy Ford? I'm against him.

Anyone beginning to think Lew Ford may actually, possibly be as good as he looks?

Boy, Lew Ford is 3-4 tonight. And the Twins will have problems finding a spot for him in the lineup once LeCroy and Mauer is back from injury.

http://me.woot.net
I like Candiotti because he, without prompting, explains a bit of the strategy behind the pitch selection. That's what's missing with Cerutti's "game," strategy explanations (and predictions).

Is there such a thing as being spoiled by Buck Martinez?

I remember him as an amazing annoucer before he became the Jays' manager.

I can't think of one thing I like about Tosca's pitcher usage in this inning. I don't usually get too upset with the Captain Hook routine but when you've got the wrong guys in the game to face the wrong people its just plain bad

Is Hinske hurt? dead? pining for his dead parrot?

http://me.woot.net
Hinske has ceased to be. He's not pining, he's passed on. If he weren't nailed to the bench he'd be pushing up the daisies. He's shuffled off the mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible. He is an EX THIRD-BASEMAN!

Er, well, no, not really.

I have a certain amount of dread about how this inning's going to turn out.

I can't see the game here. How'd Santana look? I see he struggled early, but ended up with 8 Ks.

Now that's a big out. Maybe there's hope.

Oy vay!

Oy

Is it 2003 still??? a killer loss...........

I like Candiotti because he, without prompting, explains a bit of the strategy behind the pitch selection. That's what's missing with Cerutti's "game," strategy explanations (and predictions).


Even better, when there's nothing to say, Candiotti keeps his mouth shut. Cerutti is always blathering on, trying to fill the dead air.

Sometimes silence is golden.

Is it 2003 still??? a killer loss...........

Oh yeah, I had the dread too...

Warranted, it turns out.

Ouch. Speir was the right guy to have in there, but was grooving them tonight.

That's a tough loss and three hours of my life I won't be getting back. Those early GIDP's were expensive, as was Batista's free walk.

I propose that the Jays didn't lose this game so much as the Twins won it. Discuss.

You know Gamechannel sucks when you refresh the game thread to find out the Jays lost all the while I still think Stewart's on first with a single. This sucks.

Sure, the Twins deserve some credit, but the Captain formerly known as Hook will have a hard time explaining what Batista was doing out there in the 8th.

J.P. is going to be on with Mike Wilner taking calls.

Ouch!! That was ugly!!

Is Terry Adams the closer by default or is this a "minor setback & the hierarchy will stay intact."? I disagree that it is minor. This really killed the momentum. Kind of reminded me of that Cincy game last year where the bullpen fell apart late.

I think Adams filled in admirably as the ace reliever in the 8th, but bombed in the capital-C closer role in the 9th.

Sure, the Twins deserve some credit, but the Captain formerly known as Hook will have a hard time explaining what Batista was doing out there in the 8th.

He hadn't reached 125 pitches yet. :)

J.P. says he has some questions himself, and specifically, "Why did Batista start the 8th?"

Ouch, Ouch, Ouch... in the words of JP that was a "ha'tbreak'a".

This would have been a huge win as discussed earlier, massive momentum push. Losing in such an ugly fashion is just an equal a momentum push in the other direction. If the Jays can take the next two though, all should be well and restore that momentum.

I think Adams filled in admirably as the ace reliever in the 8th, but bombed in the capital-C closer role in the 9th.

That was Speier. And I agree with the decision to keep him in for the 9th.

God that sucked.

I did a little research...so far there have been three situations where the bullpen has taken over with a lead:

This game, a blown game to the Sox in EI.

This game, where they were up by about 10 runs.

And, of course, tonight.

Overall, the pen has pitched quite well so far for the Jays, but they're 1-2 when protecting leads so far.

Although I still can't figure out why Batista came out to start the eighth when he was clearly tired, and I'm still a little sad that VW GIDP'd when he had the bases loaded ... but dammit, come on.

Can one of you guys sum up JP's key points when he's done? I can't listen and I'd really appreciate it.

My bad, I swear I was typing Speier :)

NFH: I sent the Thor email several hours ago, so if you didn't recieve yet, not including the probability of gremlins, i dont think its going to go through.

Man this loss feels bad.

Summing up:

Dustin McGowan isn't long for New Hampshire, and will hopefully be competing for a spot in the Majors next spring.

Some tool wants to know why the Jays don't run more and why Thin Carlos isn't more clutch, like good 'ol Joe Carter. J.P. doesn't think stealing bases is the main problem with the current team. Wilner says he's read a study proving Joe wasn't so clutch... I think I may have read that one too...

Why have they given up on Pond and Towers so soon?
Not enough AB available to Pond. He'll be back at some point. They like Josh Towers but feel like they've got to do better, and feel like J.Miller is a keeper. I respectfully disagree about Tattoo, and I don't think it matters long term.

I can't recall everything he said, but one thing that happened was that a fan called in and said that he was enthusiastic about the overall direction the organization was going in, and keep up the good work.

Ricciardi's answer (I am paraphrasing) was, basically, 'you're a better man than I am, then,' because if he was a fan he'd be having trouble sticking with the Jays the way they're playing these days. Ricciardi has been very complimentary to the Blue Jays faithful.

Well, J.P. needs to get a closer. I don't know how at this point. Even Joe Table (Jose Mesa) from the Bucs would be better than Speier or Ligtenberg at this point. Speier just couldn't keep the ball down to save his life. Adams has warmed up twice in a row on back to back nights without coming into the game. Sure, maybe Adams needed some tune up work but 2 nights in a row without coming in is inexcusable. And what was the point of having De Los Santos up tonight if they were going to stick with righties all the way? It's disheartening because the Jays should've had this series won already, because Lord knows how Miller is going to do tomorrow. Of course, every team has games like this throughout the course of the season but the Jays seem to have more than their share of them. This was a painful reminder of last year, seeing all these potential wins fly out the window.

I was listening on the radio. How was the 1-2 pitch Jones hit??? Bad location???

Next guy doesn't know what became of Bob Kielty. Wilner asks him if he saw the 2-hitter last night. J.P. points out the up-and-coming outfielders as a reason for moving Kielty.

Wilner asks him if the Lilly deal was "in the back pocket" for the off-season. J.P. says he could have moved Kielty for Lilly at any point, and went ahead with it based on progress from Gross & Rios.

Why didn't they sign a closer, i.e. UUU?
Ricciardi says they tried to get a closer, offered Worrell $500K more than he got from the Phillies. Points out that everything they do is in light of the budget. Points out that tonight's loss was the first time in a long time the bullpen failed. Points out that "closer" is a often a misnomer.

#2JBrumfield: The Jays don't, in fact, have more than their share of these games. They have an average number.

I have a hard time saying that the bullpen is a problem. They've actually pitched very well this year, overall. The fact that two of their bad performances came in games when they had been handed a short lead to protect is interesting but I can't see how it's anything other than coincidence, at this point.

Question about the depth- worried about seeing Dave Berg and Chris Gomez all the time. J.P. mentions the $180M Yankee payroll, and says he actually likes the Red Sox bench better. He hates always talking about money. Honest, he does.

Pat from Sudbury is a Cory Lidle fan. Key word: Sudbury. Doug Davis walked Lidle with the bases loaded today. How 'bout that!

Johnny from Woodbridge wants to know if there will be money available for deadline reinforcements. One more pitcher, thinks Johnny. J.P. says he'd try as hard as he could to convince Rogers, but wouldn't consider it until July.

Ron in St.Cat's wants to know about Miguel staying in for the 8th, and what is the fate of Delgado. J.P. thinks "we need to re-think how we used the bullpen tonight". We. Right. They'll see at the end of the year what the budget looks like and decide if Delgado fits.

Alan was bitterly disappointed when Toronto didn't sign I-Rod. J.P. has a hard time justifying $10M to a single player, and if he was going to do it it'd be for an unbelieveable pitcher. I think I saw him do that one time. I think Alan doesn't read the minor league reports in the Box.

That's all from me kids, I'm going to bed.

The pen is great - when there's no small lead to protect. They lose that extra innings game in Boston with a 2 run lead, Speier can't hold Baltimore in a 3-3 tie a couple of Saturdays ago giving up that homer to Bigbie, and this debacle tonight. And if it wasn't for Catalanotto's great catch in the 11th in Baltimore Saturday night, that would've been another loss for the pen. They need a freakin' closer. Man, we were spoiled when Henke and Ward were around.

J.P. thinks "we need to re-think how we used the bullpen tonight".

Ricciardi has long supported Tosca's managing, rarely even offering even a hint of second-guessing. This is interesting and may be a sign that Tosca's job isn't entirely safe (or maybe I'm making a big deal about nothing).

There's no difference between a closer and any other good relief pitcher. The Jays have a lot of good relief pitchers. They'll be fine.

Even Joe Table (Jose Mesa) from the Bucs would be better than Speier or Ligtenberg at this point.

That is an utterly ridiculous statement. Are you trying to infer that Mesa would be a good option because he's a "proven closer"?

Over his career, Mesa has given up 1.46 baserunners per inning. Speier: 1.27. Ligtenberg: 1.22. Mesa is coming off of a season where he had a 6.52 ERA. He's bad and he's old (38). Sure, he's having a good year so far but watch for the wheels to fall off sometime soon...we've got 7/8ths of the season to go.

No difference? So the Yankees pay Rivera all that money for no good reason then? The Red Sox signed Foulke just because? They need a closer!!! How much more proof do you need?

I need at least three more exclamation points.

I was listening on the radio. How was the 1-2 pitch Jones hit??? Bad location???


If memory serves, it looked like a strike, outside part of the plate, a little up in the zone, as they say. In that at-bat and the previous one, they had been pitching him away, away, away (you may recall he fouled off 3 or 4 pitches going the other way, just fouling them off over to the 3rd base stands, before hitting a single up the middle). Anyway it was pretty close to where he had seen a lot of previous pitches, just a little more up and maybe a little closer to the middle of the plate.

I really wonder if Frasor will get a look as "THE STOPPER." Kids got a great deuce. It really would sum up the bullpen struggles if the rook got the job.

Well, If Frasor got the Job, he would have to earn it and continue to peform, if he can hold up the closers postion all the power to him.

That is an utterly ridiculous statement. Are you trying to infer that Mesa would be a good option because he's a "proven closer"?

Yes, Mesa sucked last year but he had 40-plus save seasons in 2001 and 2002 with an ERA below 3.00. And he's had 8 scoreless appearances to start the year this season and is 5 for 5 in save opportunities. Yes, I see now how clearly this was an utterly ridiculous statement. I apologize.

The Jones homerun was a fastball that was called for up and in and ended up running belt high towards the outer half of the plate; for all intents and purposes it was a cookie as many of the pitches Speier threw tonight were. He didn't get very many pitches at all where he wanted them and I think he was fortunate not to give more than one homerun.

Kerry on the other hand had his control but his lack of stuff to throw at lefthanded batters was really apparent. Basically the fastball away was the only pitch he was comfortable with throwing. And the one mistake he made to Lew Ford leaving the pitch up over the inner half cost the Jays dearly.

But nothing cost the Jays more than once AGAIN the inexplicable desire by the manager to throw the starter out for another inning when he was clearly flagging. Unlike yesterday this wasn't a token gesture to give the pitcher a chance at a complete game. Batista had zero chance at a complete game the way he was struggling. He had zero chance to get through the 8th. I expected nothing except for the first hitter to reach base, likely by a walk. This was a night when Batista couldn't throw strikes when he absolutely had to and somehow got through 7 innings with a 4-1 lead.

The hitters after squandering many opportunities to put away the game early allowed Santana to find his groove and got nothing done against a tough reliever. The Jays were FORTUNATE to be winning and the last six outs would have to be handled with absolute care. I don't know if Tosca was watching a different game but seeing Miguel on the mound in the 8th still has me fuming. As Coach so often says, I know Carlos has a strategy for managing his pitchers. I just don't anyone has figured it out yet.

Bottom line is, there's no excuse in the world for leading 4-1 into the 8th with a completely rested pen and your pick of competent pitchers and you end up losing the game. How Adams didn't get into this game when he has been near perfect for about two weeks is beyond me. There isn't a rule against going to the reliever who's performed the best for you in a tight game, i.e. one that doesn't have a problem against lefties.

Frasor = Lopez of this year?
Batista = Escobar of this year?
Ligtenberg = Politte?

Bahhhh.

As a group, we are never pleased. In the first few weeks of the season, everyone was all over Tosca for playing matchups too much, and using 6 relievers per game.

Now that he's calmed down a little, and is willing to stick with 1 guy for a whole inning, everyone is all over him for not playing matchups.

Which one does everyone want? Make up your minds already. As the saying goes, you can't suck and blow at the same time.

Anyhow, let's have a look at the usage, and see if we can't improve on it:

MINNESOTA 8TH
-C Koskie walked.
-K Ligtenberg relieved M Batista.
-T Hunter popped out to first.
-J Jones singled to center, C Koskie to second.
-L Ford doubled to deep center, C Koskie and J Jones scored.
-H Blanco struck out swinging.
-J Offerman hit for C Guzman.
-J Offerman walked.
-M Ryan hit for L Rivas.
-J Speier relieved K Ligtenberg.
-M Ryan flied out to center.

No way Batista should have come out for the 8th. He was clearly gassed after 7 innings. Tosca wanted to go to Ligtenberg, but wanted to see if Bats would get the LHB out before making his move.

The decision to go to Ligtenberg made sense. Yes, it did. 3 of the next 4 batters were RHB, so it gave him a pretty good shot to get out of the inning. Both Ligtenberg and Adams hadn't worked since Saturday, so going to either of them would have made sense.

Conclusion:

It would have been a better choice to send out De Los Santos or Adams to start the 8th.

MINNESOTA 9TH
-Bottom of the 9th inning
-S Stewart reached on infield single to shortstop.
-D Mientkiewicz singled to right, S Stewart to third.
-C Koskie fouled out to catcher.
-T Hunter singled to center, S Stewart scored, D Mientkiewicz to third.
-J Jones homered to left, D Mientkiewicz and T Hunter scored.

Once again, the decision to go to Speier in the 8th made sense. He's the current closer, isn't he? The question is, was it clear at any time that he should have been pulled? After the Mientkiewicz single? After the Hunter single?

Conclusion:

In this situation, Tosca has to go to his veteran relievers, so Kershner, Nakamura, and Frasor were out of the question. Adams currently has the hot hand, so maybe he should have gotten the call? Then again, coming into the game Ligtenberg's ERA was at 1.80 while Speier's was 2.79, so they weren't exactly struggling.

I think Tosca's only big mistake was sending Batista out to start the 8th. After that, his choices were entirely defensible.

Are we talking about the same bullpen that just two days ago outbattled the Baltimore pen of BJ Ryan and Jorge Julio for SEVEN innings? The pen was pretty much the reason the Jays won that game.

The pen is the least of the Jays' worries. The lack of production with runners in scoring position, Vernon Wells doing his best Joe Carter at the end of his career impersonation at the plate, and Carlos Tosca going from reliever roulette to leaving the starters out until they break are bigger concerns to me.

Yes, Mesa sucked last year but he had 40-plus save seasons in 2001 and 2002 with an ERA below 3.00. And he's had 8 scoreless appearances to start the year this season and is 5 for 5 in save opportunities.

So, because Mesa was productive in 2001 and 2002 (but wasn't in 1998, 99, 2000 or, maybe most importantly, 2003), that automatically means he'd be a great closer for the Jays? This means that he'd be better than Speier or Ligtenberg, both of whom will give up fewer baserunners than Mesa over the course of a season? Because he saved 40 games a few times, it means that he will always produce at that level, no matter how old he is or what park he plays in?

Do you see how you're overvaluing the save stat? Saves are a product of how a pitcher is used. Don't look at a save total and say "that's a real closer". Learn from the Juan Acevedo incident of last year and look to K-rates and walk-rates and other stats to make a determination of who the real closers are, or should be.

Indeed, R. Billie, the pen has been great so far in games where they're already losing...but when it comes to situations where they have to protect a close lead late in the ballgame, they are 0-2. That may be a coincidence, as someone else pointed out, but it concerns me a little bit.

I will, however, agree that their are larger things to worry about.

Anyway, Justin Miler gets the ball tomorrow. Time to start a new winning streak.

While I agree that I would love to have a solid, unstoppable closer on the jays, one who could come out of the bullpen with his own theme music and strike fear into opppsing batters, making the jays contend with any team, I also know that there are only half a dozen so of those in the leauge and getting one is damn hard, practicaly impossible on the Jays current budget. I also have to say that all the stats would show that Mesa is absolutley not that answer for the jays in my opinion.

Time to start a new winning streak.

Cheers to that!

I don't see the need to micro-analyze each game. Over 162 games, you're going to win games like this, and you're going to lose games like this (unless you have Gagne!). Sometimes, it really is that simple.

Gitz pretty much hit the nail on the head. Unless we have one of the 5-UBER closers in the leauge, even though it feels AWFUL, sometimes you just have to expect to lose games like this. ANd at this stage, the 2 in a row blown saves should be seen as coincidence for this amount of games played.

IF anyone bothers to read this, I'd like to point out:

1- before the season started, I posted here that Jose Mesa would lead the Jays in saves (31, IIRC);

2- I was worst-case-scenario joking: I felt it could happen, but only as final proof that a madman had taken control of the franchise (and would refuse to let it drop below 50mph)

FWIW, in the Star today, Carlos Tosca's explanation for not using Adams yesterday was that Adams had told him he was not at his best after warming up twice in Lilly's complete game.

I'd have pulled Batista at the end of 6 last night. Seeing as he got 3 outs and allowed 1 baserunner after that, it's hard for me to ascribe too much blame to Tosca for last night's loss.

I really do wish the Jays had a right-handed hitting outfielder on the bench instead of the 7th reliever. Surely, there is a platoon outfielder out there who hits with more oomph than Dave Berg.

Mike, JP addressed the fact that at some point the Jays do need another bat on the bench instead of a 7th reliever. He felt they were kind of weak on the bench with options at the moment.

Thanks, Kristian. That's good news.

I read the Adams explanation in the Star this morning and that just made me shake my head more. So their best reliever in recent weeks wasn't available in last night's tight game because he got up and warmed twice in a 6-1 game the night before and never actually pitched. Wonderful. Now I feel so much better. I thought the benefit of getting a complete game was to have your relievers rested.

Oh well. Let's hope for a good outing by Miller today. I'm just a little upset that we're letting these good performances against ace type pitchers slip away.

They were all rested, except for Adams. It would be foolhardy NOT to have a reliever warming up when Lilly was quite clearly losing his command and getting hit hard. Now, you might think it should have been Nakamura or Kershner, but I have no idea how fresh they were.

Frankly, it was extremely good luck that he got through the 9th inning. I would have put Adams (or whoever was freshest) in to start the 9th in Monday's game.

What has happened to the term "stopper"?

If we refer to Frasor as a potential "stopper" meaning he might get what Lee Sinins calls "The Show Up in the Ninth Inning Guy" role, that is completely off line with how I grew up understanding the term.

Stoppers ... Tom Seaver, Steve Carlton, Jim Palmer. Guys who were counted on to stop losing streaks. Pedro is a stopper, Foulke is a closer. Brown is a stopper, Rivera is a closer. Wood is a stopper, Borowski is ... well, he's a "show up in the ninth inning" guy.

Incidentally, it's an old argument, but the most important outs to get are not always in the ninth. The writers even seem to know that at some level, as the closest Mariano Rivera has ever come to winning a Cy Young Award was the year he was setting up John Wetteland.

I agree with Robert. Lilly ended up throwing 125 pitches in a 6-1 game. I can't see any reason for that, in April least of all.

right now the pen is (AL only ranks):

ERA:4.29 (10th)
WHIP:1.397 (7th)
OBP against:.326 (7th)
SLG against:.420 (10th)

hopefully, that'll drop as they work out whatever kinks they currently have...

Hey, what is JP thinking, there are plenty of closers out there, Dennis Eckersly, Bobby Thigpen, Lee Smith, shoot Jesse Orosco, I even had a tenure with the Jays they could bring me back. Mesa Smesa, too many great relievers are available.

Why would you want to shoot Jesse Orosco?
He seems like a nice enough guy.