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Now he's running for the love of speed
When the child goes bad it's no cause for celebration
Like Jimmy Dean he don't talk back to me

Rangers 7 - Blue Jays 6

  1. Recaps:

    • Alan Eskew:

        Blue Jays manager John Gibbons and pinch- hitter Alex Rios both thought Doug Brocail's full-count pitch was high in the eighth inning.

        Plate umpire Darren Spagnardi, who had the only opinion that counted, called it strike three, much to the chagrin of Gibbons, who was ejected for the first time for debating the call.

    • Jesse Sanchez :

        Mark Teixeira started the Rangers' scoring in the first. Seven innings later, he finished it.

        On a record-setting afternoon in North Texas, the switch-hitting first baseman hit two home runs, including a two-run blast in the eighth inning, to propel the Rangers to a 7-6 victory and a three-game sweep against the Blue Jays in front of 20,434 at Ameriquest Field in Arlington.

    • Mike Ganter:

        Bush joined Roy Halladay, Ted Lilly, Vinnie Chulk, Miguel Batista, Ryan Glynn and Speier as Jays pitchers Teixeira has homered off this year.

        The Jays had a 6-3 lead at one point, thanks mainly to a five-run second inning surrendered by Rangers starter Chan Ho Park.

        Delgado got that started with his 29th homer of the year and second of the series. He drove in another with a double in the fifth to make it 6-3 but with the bullpen in such disarray it was clear the Jays needed much more.

    • Stephen Hawkins:

        Teixeira's two-run homer in the eighth inning gave Texas a 7-6 lead yesterday, and Cordero struck out three batters in the ninth for his team-record 44th save to complete the three-game sweep of the Toronto Blue Jays.

        "He's been amazing," Teixeira said of Cordero. "He's been our team MVP all year. Every time we need him to step up and get the big save, he does it."

    • Allan Ryan:

        Homerless for 18 games prior to the Jays' arrival, Teixeira, now up to 34 on the year, said he hadn't really noticed the Toronto factor but "as I've always said, home runs tend to come in bunches."

        So do the Blue Jays, three games at a time.


  2. Fordin Notes (by Alan Eskew) on pitchers Josh Towers, Roy Halladay, Francisco Rosario, and Jason Frasor:

      Jason Frasor has had many memorable games pitching for the Blue Jays this season, but Saturday night was not one of them.

      Frasor, however, acknowledged that he could not stop thinking about his Saturday outing, allowing three runs on three singles, a walk and a balk after retiring the first two batters in the eighth to absorb the loss against the Rangers.

  3. Ganter Notes on Roy Halladay:

      Halladay will throw a three-inning simulated game on Thursday at SkyDome and barring any setbacks will make his first start since July 20 next Tuesday in New York against the Yankees.

    That has to be considered great news for all Jays fans.

  4. In "Early favourite is Gibbons" Bob Elliott talks about candidates for the role of Jays manager:

      What types of questions do executives ask about possible managers? Is he organized? Does he get along with veteran players? How would he discipline a star player if he didn't run out a ground ball? What's his opinion regarding on-base percentage?

    Mr. Elliott couldn't help making references to J.P.'s handling of the scouting staff:

      Jack Gillis signed a multi-year deal as a scout and was gone after one season.

      New Englander Bill Livesey signed a three-year deal and left after his second year for a lateral move to the New York Mets.

    Give it a rest already.

  5. Another Bob Elliott piece indicates that Brad Arnsberg may be replacing pitching coach Gil Patterson next year:

      Brad Arnsberg, currently the pitching coach at triple-A Syracuse, likely will have the same position with the Jays next season.

  6. If that wasn't enough "Expect Whitt on Jays staff" as a coach next season.

  7. Tonight's 7:05PM EST start at the Dome: Jay vs. Spring Training Jay - RHP Justin Miller (3-3, 5.04 ERA) vs. LHP Bruce Chen (0-0, 2.12 ERA). See the game preview.

Jays Roundup - Now That He Has No Sense of Destination | 47 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
_Mick - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 10:01 AM EDT (#35546) #
Baby, wanting to win is Universal!
Named For Hank - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 10:08 AM EDT (#35547) #
Why'd you have to pick a lyric from the bad Tin Machine album?

Well, at least this confirms that I'm not the only person who owns it.
_Moffatt - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 10:17 AM EDT (#35548) #
I own it, so yeah, you aren't the only one. Before I met you I thought me and my buddy Scott were the only ones who would keep the album in their collection.

Anyhow Mick gets 100 million points for identifying Baby Universal by Tin Machine. He also receives a picture of a Hippocampus histrix (thorny seahorse):



and a picture of a tin machine:



Sweeeet.
_Moffatt - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 10:19 AM EDT (#35549) #
Back on topic: Is Darren Spagnardi the worst ball-strike umpire in baseball? Didn't the Jays have problems with him earlier in the year? I think they did, but I can't remember in which game.
Gerry - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 10:20 AM EDT (#35550) #
There will be no minor league update today. New Hampshire Fisher Cats start their best of five final tomorrow night. This is the first day since April 9th with no minor league update. We will be back on Wednesday with a report on game one of the playoffs.

Consider this the first step in the weaning process to cure your addiction to the minor league updates.
_Moffatt - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 10:24 AM EDT (#35551) #
Collected Batter's Box Comments on Darren Spagnardi:

Game 42:

Coach: The CF camera is pretty far to the left, so it's hard to "call" balls and strikes, but Doc, who stayed away from all three lefty batters, definitely didn't get the outside edge from umpire Darren Spagnardi. I thought the 3-1 to Damon was right where he wanted it.

Coach: Jerry Howarth is also talking about the rookie Spagnardi being obviously a hitter's ump, and I completely agree. As long as the zone is the same for both teams and consistent throughout the game, the players should adjust.

Coach: No matter how Questec is calibrated, the high strike is extinct. However, since Spagnardi has made it very clear he hasn't watched much AL ball, that's where I think Doc and Cash should go -- upstairs.

Thomas: I figured out why Doc's getting the screwjob. Our buddy Phil Cuzzi is at first. He must have hypnotised Spagnardi.

Actually, I agree with several comments made. Doc shouldn't get calls just because he is the reigning Cy Young award winner. When announcers use that logic to justify a bigger strikezone for a certain pitcher, that's incorrect. However, Spagnardi is definately squeezing the corners based on the way the game has been called consistently before and he has a "small" strike zone, all things considered. Maybe some of the near-misses for Doc and Arroyo aren't textbook strikes, but 95% of other umpires would have called them as such.

Coach: I'm with you, Thomas. There are a lot of differences between the textbook definition and the accepted strike zone. Spagnardi seems to have his own idea about the width of the zone, which is generally at least one baseball width on either side of the plate, or about 22-24 inches. No pitcher should get calls based on reputation, but all pitchers "should" get calls when the catcher sets up on the edge and they hit the target precisely.

Game 63:

Coach: Doc has settled into a nice groove, though neither pitcher is getting much from Darren Spagnardi on the corners.

Umpire Professionalism Thread:

Blue in SK: Throw that idiot Spagnardi into the mix, he's a rookie and twice they Jays have had to deal with his moving strike zone - I think Doc was pitching both times.
Mike Green - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 10:27 AM EDT (#35552) #
The Elliot piece on Gibbons does recount a good Bob Bailor story.

Yesterday, Gibbons brought in Speier in the eighth inning with a 6-5 lead apparently for the two-inning save. It didn't work, but I agree with the approach.
_Ryan Day - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 10:46 AM EDT (#35553) #
I like the speculation on the future of the coaching staff, but is it too much to ask for some actual quotes or sources about the people? As it stands, there's not much more to them than "Bob Elliott thinks these people may be hired..."
_Ducey - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 10:59 AM EDT (#35554) #
Elliot is obviously just speculating. Worse, he says:With Carlos Delgado expected to leave, Whitt's arrival might make him the third most popular *player* in uniform behind Vernon Wells and Roy Halladay.

Apparently, in Bob's world, Ernie will solve that lingering DH problem.
Coach - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 11:04 AM EDT (#35555) #
Give it a rest already.

Yeah, Bill Livesey has sure turned the Mets around in a hurry, advising them to get rid of three brilliant prospects for the dubious AL "cripple crown" winner (Zambrano led the league in walks, wild pitches and hit batsmen last year and looked good to repeat in two of those categories before hurting his elbow) and a guy they could have signed as a free agent.

Assume that anything Elliott writes is either motivated by his own negative agenda, fed to him by disgruntled ex-employees, completely fabricated or all of the above. Once in a great while, between rumours and innuendo, he may get a fact correct, but keep the salt handy. I do hope he's right about Gibby losing the "interim" manager tag, and assuming Joe Breeden doesn't return, Ernie Whitt would be a great hire as first-base coach and catching instructor.

I don't profess to know whether Gil Patterson's contract will be renewed, or whether another organization will make him an offer he can't refuse, but that gossip comes to you straight from the source of the Batista-to-the-Twins "done deal," certainly not from anyone who will be involved in the decision. If Gil does move on, having experienced big-league pitching coaches like Brad Arnsberg and Rick Adair in the system has already been a very good thing for kids like Dave Bush, and will make the search for a replacement a whole lot easier. By the way, it's absolutely silly to suggest that Tony LaCava is doing a "background check" on Joe Maddon; they spent many years together in the Angels organization.
_Ryan Day - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 11:21 AM EDT (#35556) #
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1880247
I do wonder about Whitt's status in the organization, though. He seems like a sensible and high-profile addition to the coaching staff. But if you're looking at him as a future manager, doesn't it make sense to give him a managing gig in the minors?

In other news, Gammons has an interesting piece on Moneyball and defence. COMN.
Pistol - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 11:42 AM EDT (#35557) #
Halladay will throw a three-inning simulated game on Thursday at SkyDome and barring any setbacks will make his first start since July 20 next Tuesday in New York against the Yankees.

That has to be considered great news for all Jays fans.


And fantasy owners in weekly leagues that will get 2 starts!
_Cristian - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 11:48 AM EDT (#35558) #
Halladay will throw a three-inning simulated game on Thursday at SkyDome and barring any setbacks will make his first start since July 20 next Tuesday in New York against the Yankees.

That has to be considered great news for all Jays fans.


Let's not forget that it's good news for Red Sox fans and those of us who just dislike the Yankees.
_MatO - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 11:52 AM EDT (#35559) #
Will Carroll reports that Adam Loewen has a torn labrum.
_R Billie - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 11:55 AM EDT (#35560) #
I can't understand why the Jays keep throwing Teixeira strikes. I mean how many times does the guy have to utterly destroy your pitches before you start considering being a little careful with him? Not only do they not execute the pitches they want to make but they ignore the scouting report and throw on the outer half of the plate a lot. I mean the guy went 18 games without a homerun before that series so it's obvious that your team specifically is doing something wrong against him.
Coach - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 12:05 PM EDT (#35561) #
if you're looking at him as a future manager, doesn't it make sense to give him a managing gig in the minors?

Not necessarily. Though I'm sure it helps to have called the shots in Triple-A, a guy with the right personality and aptitude for the job could be "qualified" after a few years in the right big-league dugout. Bob Brenly's ring notwithstanding, it's a more likely path to success than going from the playing field to the broadcast booth. Or promoting an ex-superstar to the top job after a year as a hitting coach.

Ideally, you want a guy who was once a catcher or middle infielder -- they need to be more aware of situations and strategies than say, left fielders, and we all know pitchers live in their own little worlds. Regardless of position, benchwarmers or platoon players who sat next to brilliant managers (like Herzog soaking up Stengel's wisdom) seem to have an advantage over guys with more talent. Success at running a club in the minors is a good indicator, but no guarantee. Above everything else is the ability to communicate, with (in descending order of importance) the players, the front office and the media. They don't have to like you, but they do have to respect you, and the only way to get and keep that respect is to earn it every day.

By my reckoning, Whitt's a few years away, and while managing in the minors for a couple of those seasons might make his "pedigree" even better, if big-leaguers respond positively to him as a coach, he could probably skip that step. Also by those criteria, Gibby's a terrific candidate: 1,000+ games behind the dish, cup of coffee as Gary Carter's understudy on a world champion while picking Davey Johnson's brain, winner at every minor pro level, and doing a very nice job after inheriting a tough situation this year. I'd be quite happy to see what he can do from Day One with a healthy roster.
Mike Green - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 12:29 PM EDT (#35562) #
Thanks, Ryan Day, for the link to the Gammons article. There were two interesting points concerning statistical measurement of defense that emerged from the article:

1. The Red Sox are already measuring how hard a ball is hit, in addition to zone, and comparing it with league averages. I'm guessing that they have objective measures of how hard a ball is hit (hang-time in the case of outfielders/time to base lines for infielders), and statistics on league average conversion rates by zone and time.

2. The A's apparently ignore the effect of positioning. Now there's a fascinating and complex topic for statistical study.

This is a subject of great interest to me, and it is really too bad that the best research is now proprietary. If I didn't have to make a living, I'd work on it myself. Now if there were a Bauxite with a similar interest and an ability to convert this into some kind of academic paper...

Albert Einstein once suggested that the theory of relativity was simple; baseball, on the other hand, was complex.
_Mark J - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 12:30 PM EDT (#35563) #
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/ichiros-edge/
COMN for a guest column by Bill James on the Hardball Times, about the effect of season length on breaking records.

But before you read the article, try the following guess (which the article answers). What percentage likelier is it that Ichiro will break the hits record in a 162 game vs a 154 game season, assuming that his true hitting ability is .350 and he gets 4.225 AB per game?
_dp - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 01:11 PM EDT (#35564) #
So, is it better that Frasor hit his rough patch this year rather than next (A-Lo) so the Jays know they can't count on him as their closer? The Werth trade looked like a wash earlier this year, maybe even a slight edge to the Jays, but, based on this year alone, looks like LA did pretty well. .270/.346/.502- still striking out too much (63 in 211 ab), but producing at a level I don't think even his boosters here expected.
Pistol - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 01:13 PM EDT (#35565) #
Excellent Gammons article.

Some teams are trying to quantify defensive statistics. "It's not a pure science yet, but we're trying to get to what were the great unknowns -- defense and baserunning," says one club official. "How Theo does it and how we do it entails very different methodology," says Beane. "But we usually come out at the same conclusions."

I find it a little odd that two of the top AL teams, who are possibly competing for the same playoff spot or will face each other in the playoffs, are comparing notes with one another.

Those who read "Moneyball" but didn't grasp it don't appreciate that many of the teams with "Moneyball" ties have moved on to different forms of analysis, often incorporating batters who make contact (my personal favorite simple stat when looking at minor leaguers is to see walks and extra-base hits compared to strikeouts).

Anyone ever hear of ((BB+XBH)/Ks)? for hitters before in looking at minor leaguers?
_MatO - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 01:34 PM EDT (#35566) #
I'm pretty sure that Ernie Whitt has had some managing experience in Jays' minor league system during Ash's reign.
Mike Green - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 01:38 PM EDT (#35567) #
I've never heard of (BB+XBH)/K, and I honestly don't understand how that measures a hitter's proficiency in making contact (it's not clear to me why doubles are relevant to this in a way that singles are not).
_Jordan - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 01:43 PM EDT (#35568) #
It's hard to say how much impact, good or bad, a pitching coach has on his staff; the Jays front office has a clearer view of the dynamics at work there than we do. But if Patterson is to be linked to the current staff's performance, then he desreves credit for helping to harness Ted Lilly's great potential and putting him on the path to being a solid #2 starter. He also should be given credit for Josh Towers' good performance, although Towers' shaky peripheral numbers belie his record.

However, Patterson would also have to be held partly accountable for the very disappointing performance of Miguel Batista, particularly in the second half. And despite Elliott's claim, I think Patterson really has to be brought to task over the bullpen. This is the second straight year that the Toronto pen has cratered. When it's Doug Creek and Jeff Tam doing the cratering, that's fine. But the Jays brought in some pretty solid relief help this year, and they just stunk. Kerry Ligtenberg and Terry Adams in particular were far worse in Toronto than they had been previously. Was that because the pen was poorly managed under Tosca, relievers not knowing their roles? Maybe; but I can't imagine that was all of it.

I don't know whether Patterson should lose his job or not. But I do think his tenure as Jays' pitching coach requires close examination.
_Ryan01 - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 01:46 PM EDT (#35569) #
Whitt has been a roving hitting and catching instructor for several years with the Jays and interviewed for the big league position when Jim Fregosi was fired but I believe his actual managerial experience is limited to the National team.
_Jonny German - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 01:58 PM EDT (#35570) #
Anyone ever hear of ((BB+XBH)/Ks)? for hitters before in looking at minor leaguers?

Sure - Here's the Blue Jay Top 20 for 2004 (min 200 AB)
Player    	Age	Level	AB	(BB+XBH)/K
Jayce Tingler 23.10 A+ 447 3.68
Howie Clark 30.7 AAA 256 3.44
Julius Matos 29.9 AAA 288 2.05
Aaron Hill 22.6 AA 480 1.67
Robinzon Diaz 21.0 A 407 1.65
Ron Davenport 22.11 A+ 442 1.57
Ryan Roberts 24.0 A 226 1.54
Adam Lind 21.2 A- 266 1.50
Russ Adams 24.1 AAA 483 1.45
Manny Mayorson 21.6 A+ 300 1.43
Eric Nielsen 22.10 A- 231 1.31
Dominic Rich 25.1 AA 513 1.31
Gabe Gross 24.11 AAA 377 1.15
Brian Patrick 23.10 A 253 1.11
Eric Crozier 26.1 AAA 390 1.09
Danny Solano 28.10 AA 359 1.07
V Chiaravalloti 23.11 A+ 447 1.06
Glenn Williams 27.2 AAA 432 1.06
Clint Johnston 27.3 A 468 1.06
Joey Reiman 23.9 A 408 1.06
Aaron Mathews 22.4 A- 283 1.04
G. Quiroz 22.10 AAA 255 1.04
John Hattig 24.7 AA 406 1.01
Brian Hall 22.8 A- 211 1.00
Carlo Cota 24.0 A+ 463 0.93
_Jonny German - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 02:00 PM EDT (#35571) #
Promise big, deliever bigger... that is, of course, a Top 25, not a Top 20.
_Tassle - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 02:03 PM EDT (#35572) #
That looks like a pretty meaningless list. Maybe that was your intent :)
_MatO - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#35573) #
Well I was sort of right. Whitt was the Syracuse interim manager for 6 games in 1997 and the Dunedin interim manager for 36 games also in 1997. His records were 1-5 and 15-21 for a combined 16-26.
_Spicol - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 02:20 PM EDT (#35574) #
That's a literal take on what Gammons wrote but what I think he meant (and what makes more sense) is to look at at BB/K and EBH/K individually as indicators of the player's plate discipline and what kind of contact he's making - whether or not the player is hitting the ball consistently and with authority.
_Smack - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 02:20 PM EDT (#35575) #
That just shows how AMAZING Tingler is.....
i mean he has a whopping 18 XBH, yet still comes up high because of his insane BB/K rate. It was even better earlier in the year, when he wasn't trying to pound the ball.
_Jonny German - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 02:45 PM EDT (#35576) #
Well hey, ya want 'em split up, just say so!

Top 20 BB/K, with IsoD thrown in for reference, minimum 200 AB.
Player      	Age	Lev	AB	BB/K	IsoD
Jayce Tingler 23.10 A+ 447 2.960 .122
Howie Clark 30.7 AAA 256 2.222 .094
Ryan Roberts 24.0 A 226 1.100 .157
Manny Mayorson 21.6 A+ 300 1.087 .060
Aaron Hill 22.6 AA 480 1.033 .089
Robinzon Diaz 21.0 A 407 .871 .054
Brian Patrick 23.10 A 253 .818 .099
Eric Nielsen 22.10 A- 231 .778 .119
Danny Solano 28.10 AA 359 .767 .109
Julius Matos 29.9 AAA 288 .750 .031
Dominic Rich 25.1 AA 513 .736 .074
Russ Adams 24.1 AAA 483 .726 .063
Ryan Roberts 24.0 A+ 205 .706 .111
Aaron Mathews 22.4 A- 283 .702 .084
Ron Davenport 22.11 A+ 442 .691 .067
Adam Lind 21.2 A- 266 .667 .059
Gabe Gross 24.11 AAA 377 .654 .087
Clint Johnston 27.3 A 468 .654 .109
V Chiaravalloti 23.11 A+ 447 .627 .110
Joey Reiman 23.9 A 408 .610 .093
Top 20 XBH/K, with IsoP thrown in for reference, minimum 200 AB.
Player      	Age	Lev	AB	XBH/K	IsoP
Julius Matos 29.9 AAA 288 1.300 .143
Howie Clark 30.7 AAA 256 1.222 .140
Ron Davenport 22.11 A+ 442 .882 .217
Adam Lind 21.2 A- 266 .833 .165
Robinzon Diaz 21.0 A 407 .774 .074
Russ Adams 24.1 AAA 483 .726 .120
Jayce Tingler 23.10 A+ 447 .720 .049
Aaron Hill 22.6 AA 480 .639 .131
Glenn Williams 27.2 AAA 432 .633 .231
Dominic Rich 25.1 AA 513 .569 .117
Raul Tablado 22.7 A+ 323 .538 .282
Eric Nielsen 22.10 A- 231 .533 .173
Eric Crozier 26.1 AAA 390 .532 .236
G Quiroz 22.10 AAA 255 .519 .177
Brian Hall 22.8 A- 211 .510 .218
Gabe Gross 24.11 AAA 377 .494 .160
Carlo Cota 24.0 A+ 463 .485 .155
Chip Cannon 22.10 A- 210 .473 .224
John Hattig 24.7 AA 406 .468 .236
Joey Reiman 23.9 A 408 .451 .130
robertdudek - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 02:46 PM EDT (#35577) #
EBH/K is very similar to my P/K ratio - power to strikeouts. I consider P/K to be the single best quick-and-dirty estimate of a player's manifested hitting ability.
_Mike Wilner - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 03:00 PM EDT (#35578) #
Hey Bauxites!

Listen to the Fan at 3 for some big Blue Jays news!!!!!

(shameless plug)
_Rob - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 03:05 PM EDT (#35579) #
Cat re-upped for two years. 5.4 million?

Thanks, Mike.
Mike Green - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#35580) #
5.4 million?

Why the question mark? Is it because the salary figures are not confirmed, or for some other reason?
_Four Seamer - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#35581) #
http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story.asp?id=98591
I can't listen to the Fan here at work, but TSN is reporting the same - COMN
_Mike Wilner - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#35582) #
Anytime, Rob (et al). Sorry for the short notice.
_Rob - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 03:09 PM EDT (#35583) #
Why the question mark?

It's there because I don't think I heard it right. It may be wrong. Wilner knows, but I didn't hear it correctly over the static on my radio.
_Mike Wilner - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#35584) #
Jeez, I think this is a personal record for posts in one day (never mind 10 minutes!). No question, it's officially official. 2 years, 2.7 mil per.
_Rob - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 03:11 PM EDT (#35585) #
Yep, $5.4 million. That TSN story reports 2.7 in 2005, then 2.7 in 2006.
_Rob - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 03:16 PM EDT (#35586) #
Salary Obligations, Toronto 2005(millions of dollars):
Halladay, 10.5
Batista, 4.75
Lilly, 3.1
Hinske, 3.0
Wells, 2.9
Catalanotto, 2.75
Ligtenberg, 2.5

TOTAL: $29.450
_Jordan - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 03:16 PM EDT (#35587) #
No question, it's officially official. 2 years, 2.7 mil per.

Allow me to be the first to say: what the hell?

I like Frank Catalanotto, as a hitter and (evidently) as a clubhouse presence. But his only useful role on this team going forward is as a DH against right-handers, 400 AB per year maximum. I simply do not see that that's a job worth a guaranteed two years and 5.4 million of the team's precious dollars. Gabe Gross will approach or surpass Cat's numbers in 2005-06 for a fraction of the cost.

I await counter-arguments that can make better sense of this. But right now, this seems like a really bad idea to me.
Pistol - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#35588) #
I don't know whether Patterson should lose his job or not. But I do think his tenure as Jays' pitching coach requires close examination.

I agree.

With regard to Lilly I'm not sure he's improved this year - his ERA is lower, but it looks like it's because his hits allowed are lower. Not knowing his BABIPs, I suspect that's the cause behind the improvement.


Year Inn H/9 K/9 BB/9 HR/9 K/BB ERA
2003 178.1 9.0 7.4 2.9 1.2 2.5 4.34
2004 178.1 7.9 7.8 4.0 1.2 1.9 4.09


Like Batista, Lilly has seen an noticeable uptick in walks allowed.

Actually, given the parks Lilly has improved this year (the HR rate being the same is an accomplishment), but the raw 2003 numbers look better than the raw 2004 numbers, which I think is distorting the ERA.

Looking at Hardball Times Lilly's FIP ERA is 4.66.
Pistol - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#35589) #
Oops
Mike Green - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#35590) #
I've started a new thread on the Catalanotto re-signing.
_Loveshack - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 03:23 PM EDT (#35591) #
Well howbout this. For a cost of roughly $3 million dollars next year. The Jays have a DH who bats .307/.368/.415 vs RHP and .329/.380/.487 vs LHP. He can also play any outfield position well and can bat leadoff. The downside is that he takes up two spots on the bench. His name: Reed Catalanatto.
Pistol - Monday, September 13 2004 @ 03:30 PM EDT (#35592) #
I agree fully with Jordan.

As I've mentioned a few times (and hopefully I'm not beating into the ground) you can't expect more than 120 games out of Cat.

Plus, right now he's coming off of an injury that ended his season. Were teams really going to be lining up to sign Cat for $2.7 million/year for 2 years?

And there's no better alternatives for that money?

For the Jays to move up in the standings they need to get more bang for the buck. Overpaying an injury prone CI without a lot of power doesn't seem to do that.

This is like the A's signing Hatteberg last year. It didn't make sense to most at the time, but looks like it's working out. Hopefully this works out the same.
Jays Roundup - Now That He Has No Sense of Destination | 47 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.