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It's Groundhog Day, and you know what that means ... it's time for 2004 pre-season nominations for the Annual Batter's Box Joaquin Andujar Award. The player who will eventually be awarded the 2005 Andujar will be the epitome, in retrospect, of a low-risk, high-reward transaction. (If those two sentences sound Bill Murray-esque Groundhog Day familiar, well they should.)

Batter's Box authors and readers are invited to cast their ballots for the top five pre-season candidates for the 2004 Andujar. Points will be tabulated on a 5-4-3-2-1 basis and balloting will conclude, after a second round of reminders, near the end of Spring Training, at which time the pre-season list will be published.

To win an Andujar ...


... a player must have signed as a free agent -- either a major or minor league contract or a Rule 5 acquisition is acceptable -- with a new team in the previous off-season. Players acquired via trade are not eligible. Players are also not eligible to win an Andujar if they have ever been named to a Major League All-Star Game roster or if they have never appeared in a major league game. Players signed as free agents from foreign professional leagues are also ineligible.

NOTE: once a player is released, traded or sold after the season starts, even if he was once eligible for the award, he is no longer eligible for that particular season's Andujar, under the 2004 Shane Spencer Rule.

In the 2003 contest, former Jay Esteban Loaiza edged out then-Brewer Scooter Podsednik, while last year Cleveland's Ronnie Belliard blew out Jeff Suppan and Glendon Rusch for the title. In retrospect, while neither Loaiza nor Belliard received much pre-season attention for the Andujar, both were the only eligible candidates to be named to that season's All-Star team -- something to keep an eye on for 2005.

The Andujar is named in honor of the legendary and quotable pitcher Joaquin Andujar, who won 127 games in 13 seasons with the Astros, Cardinals and Athletics -- and who once said, \"There is one word in baseball that says it all, and that word is 'youneverknow.'\"

That quote captures the spirit of the award, which honors the players who, looking back made fans shake their heads and say 'Wow, in baseball, you really never do know what's going to happen.'\"

More than 100 players fitting the Andujar eligibility requirements have already switched teams this off-season, with more certainly to come. Let's see if we can't do a better job of pre-season projections than we did in '03 and '04, shall we?

There are certainly a number of familiar faces who may compete for this year's Andujar; third-time candidate John Halama travels to Boston to take another whack, while Royce Clayton, Chris Stynes, Henry Blanco, Chad Fox, Aaron Fultz, Mike Myers, Chris Hammond and Desi Relaford are among those who are making at least a second career appearance on the pre-season list of potential candidates.

Some of the questions that will need to be sorted out as we select this season's finalists and winner:

Can a Blue Jay finally win it, or at least make the list of finalists? Let's hear it for the bullpen, as Billy Koch, Scott Schoeneweis and Box favourite Spike Lundberg all have a shot.

Or maybe, like Loaiza, an ex-Jay, say Jason Kershner, Chris Gomez or even Terry Adams can step into the winner's circle?

Will the Red Sox put out a \"Welcome Matt\" for the 2005 Andujar? Two big free agent signings -- former closer Matt Mantei and brief Jay flirtation Matt Clement -- are eligible; neither has ever been an All-Star, for all the off-season fuss made. For that matter, neither has Pedro replacement Wade Miller, who might be as good a bet as any to string together 18 wins in 2005.

Before you object -- and in case you've forgotten -- the following players are among those switching teams this off-season who have, in fact, made an All-Star appearance at some point in their careers: Shawn Estes, Ricky Bottalico, Brian Jordan, B.J. Surhoff, Eric Milton, Rich Aurilia, Jermaine Dye, A.J. Pierzynski, Tony Womack, Russ Ortiz, Carl Pavano, Ben Grieve, Jon Lieber, Woody Williams, Aaron Sele, Tino Martinez, Mark Grudzielanek and Cristian Guzman. We want to avoid the ugliness of The Jose Lima Incident last fall, so if any other players listed here have made an All-Star team, please speak up!

While former Rookie of the Year Grieve is ineligible, there are a number of names you will recognize from the \"Hey, wasn't he supposed to be a superduperstar?\" files, including Ricky Ledee, Midre Cummings, Brandon Larson, Dee Brown, Jack Cust, Jaret Wright and Ryan Rupe. Can one of them fill unchecked promise at last?

Will another backstop \"catch\" everyone by surprise, like Texas' Rod Barajas, last season's mid-year Andujar leader, did in 2004? Be sure to speak up if you think it will be Kelly Stinnett, Sal Fasano, Einar Diaz, Bobby Estalella or Mike Matheny.

Is it fair that Adrian Beltre, who got that $500 billion dollar contract from Seattle, but has never made an All-Star team, is eligible for this award?

Will one of tje Andujar-eligible relief pitchers turn into this year's version of Danys Baez or Braden Looper? Not likely, but give a chance to Gabe White, Steve Kline, Tony Fiore, Jay Witasick, Steve Reed, Ben Weber, David Weathers, Danny Patterson and maybe the best of the lot, Dustin Hermanson and Antonio Alfonseca.

Or will some middle infielder, a la Belliard, run off with the Andujar for the second year in a row? Again, not likely, but don't put it past Lou Merloni, Craig Counsell, Enrique Wilson, Danny Klassen, Alfredo Amezaga, Jose Valentin, Wilson Delgado, Denny Hocking, Mark DeRosa or former nine-positions-in-one-game guy Shane Halter to give it their best shot. Not to mention Ricky Gutierrez, Pokey Reese, Alex Cora and David Eckstein, the latter now a member of the NL Champs.

There's a history with one-time 20-game winner Rick Helling (and former Rangers seem to thrive under Doug Melvin in Milwaukee), as well as \"Mini-Pedro,\" Ramon Ortiz, off to Cincinnati; Dustan Mohr in Coors Field? Does this smell of Dante Bichette numbers? What about a guy who owns part of a no-hitter, Kent Mercker? Joe Randa hasn't been an All-Star? That's right. Orlando Hernandez has been a post-season wonder, but he has to get there first. Everybody loves a knuckleballer, and that means Steve Sparks.

If Tony Saunders does absolutely anything at all this year, does he win just because \"YouNeverKnow\" about coming back from two broken arms?

Seth Etherton in Oakland will never be Mark Mulder, and Jeff Liefer never quite fulfilled the power potential he had. Greg Colbrunn, another bat some Jay fans seemed to long for, will do his thing in Texas -- as will perhaps the off-season favorite, outfielder Richard Hidalgo, who moves across state from Houston after a brief fling in Flushing.

Looking for a darkhorse? It probably won't be Travis Driskill, but if the homer-prone righty can see the move from Coors Field to Minute Maid as a positive, he might just fill the spikes left empty by the aforementioned Wade Miller. But keep your eyes open for a guy who really is moving from a hitter's park to a pitcher's environs, wild but hard-throwing Colby Lewis, recovered from injury and on the move from Texas to Detroit. Reunited with Pudge Rodriguez, it's entirely possible that Lewis, just 12-13 in his career with a cumulative ERA+ of 72, could harness his command into an '03 Loaiza-like breakout season.

Who's YOUR darkhorse candidate?

Now, your challenge is simple: list your top five picks, in order, to win the Andujar this season. Your \"votes\" will be used to informally compile a pre-season watch list. Please feel free -- in fact, feel compelled, nay, required -- to add players to this list who are missing.

Mick Doherty's Ballot:
1. Richard Hidalgo
2. Dustan Mohr
3. John Halama (if only out of habit!)
4. Rick Helling
5. Colby Lewis

YouNeverKnow '05: It's That Time Again | 51 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
_CaramonLS - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 12:54 AM EST (#811) #
1. Jaret Wright
2. John Halama (hes seriously going to have a crazy year pitching for the socks).
3. Wade Miller (gets lit up like a Christmas tree in Boston and proves the Astros right in letting him go).
4. Cory Lidle
5. Steve Sparks
_Mick - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 01:14 AM EST (#812) #
CLS,
Alas, Mr. Lidle is not eligible as he re-signed with the same team, Philadelphia, this off-season. And are you sure you want to make a guy you yourself think will get \"lit up\" your #3 selection?

Nice to see Halama getting the early support, though. By God, one of these years, he just might win this thing, in which case we may need to actually re-name it.
_CaramonLS - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 01:27 AM EST (#813) #
Well Mick I don't think hes going to get lit up as bad as Jaret Wright. (cracks like Rogers in the NY spotlight).
I think Halama gets a sub 3 ERA with the Bsox.
Miller 5.00 with a mid season ending injury.

Doh forgot about Mr. Lidle.

I'll have to go with Mr. Adams then as my #5 moving Sparks up to #4.

Although we should have a clause where if they are 10 years removed from their last All star game that we could include them *COUGH* Nomo *COUGH*.
_Magpie - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 04:00 AM EST (#814) #
Aw, crap.

Orlando Hernandez.

And for the Ed Whitson Award (I just made that up!) - Carl Pavano.
_Magpie - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 04:02 AM EST (#815) #
OK, a full ballot. My bad.

1. Orlando Hernandez
2. Colby Lewis
3. Ramon Ortiz
4. Greg Colbrunn
5. Billy Koch
_Jim - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 08:12 AM EST (#816) #
'Is it fair that Adrian Beltre, who got that $500 billion dollar contract from Seattle, but has never made an All-Star team, is eligible for this award?'

Not really. How about a limit on the 2005 salary.
_Marc - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 09:07 AM EST (#817) #
http://washnationals.blogspot.com
1. David Eckstein
2. Dustan Mohr
3. Alex Cora
4. Wade Miller
5. Mark De Rosa
Mike Green - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 09:13 AM EST (#818) #
And for the Ed Whitson Award (I just made that up!) - Carl Pavano.

Great idea. An award for the free agent signing that goes splat makes a fine counterpoint to the gooey sentimentality of the Andujars.:)
Pistol - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 09:19 AM EST (#819) #
The player who will eventually be awarded the 2005 Andujar will be the epitome, in retrospect, of a low-risk, high-reward transaction.

How about a limit on the 2005 salary?


I would think it would be hard to give an Andujar to any player with a salary over $5 million - that's not really low risk - but that's just my personal guideline. Ultimately I go with some sort of Win Share / Salary to come up with my winner which eliminates the larger salarires.
_Anders - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 09:21 AM EST (#820) #
I agree we need a salary cutoff. In any case, its more suprising if they dont get tons of money and then underperform better than any of the stoolpigeons on the list.
It would be cool to break down the Andujar voting by salary, to see who's the best value Andujar player

1. corey koskie (its true, I checked)
2. wade miller
3. john halama
4. ramon martinez
5. someone on the reds
_Mick - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 09:37 AM EST (#821) #
It would be cool to break down the Andujar voting by salary

We do this at the end of the year ... for the final ballot, voters are provided with season salary and total win shares; some roster members have advocated doing the math and providing win shared per $100k or somesuch, but I am resistent to making this a mathematical formula, even in appearance.

For that same reason, and we had this discussion last year though i am perfectly willing to revisit it more fully if the argument is there, we've never put a \"salary cap\" on nominations. What if Matt Cleement goes 26-3 this year? Won't his value be greater than the 13-11 John Halama, regardless of any salary discrepancy?
_Jim Acker - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 09:39 AM EST (#822) #
Hello kids. Any thoughts on:
Renaming of the Dome
New Turf
New Scoreboard
and Increased budget??
_Grand Funk Rail - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 09:46 AM EST (#823) #
It blows my mind that Ricky Bottalico was an all-star.

Grand Funk out.
_Jonny German - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 10:21 AM EST (#824) #
What if Matt Cleement goes 26-3 this year? Won't his value be greater than the 13-11 John Halama, regardless of any salary discrepancy?

Sure it will. But he doesn't meet the fundamental requirement of the award - \"the epitome, in retrospect, of a low-risk, high-reward transaction.\" Where's the low-risk in signing a guy up for 3 years at $8.5M per?

Along the same lines, a selection of 2005 salaries of eligible players (including incentives):

Eric Milton $4.0 (signing bonus was another $4.0)
Carl Pavano $9.0
Jon Lieber $5.25
Woody Williams $7.5
Cristian Guzman ~$4.2
Jaret Wright $7.0
Steve Kline ~$2.75
Dustin Hermanson ~$2.75
Jose Valentin $3.5
Orlando Hernandez ~$6.0

Ramon Ortiz is ineligible, he was traded from Anaheim to Cincinatti.

My ballot:

1. Matt Kinney
2. Billy Traber
3. Matt Mantei
4. Ben Grieve
5. Josh Phelps
_Mick - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 10:25 AM EST (#825) #
Thanks, Jonny. Good clarifications. Was Ben Weber in the same trade? I have the feeling he could end up closing for the Reds, if Graves goes back to the rotation.

And I don't disagree with your \"low risk\" objection, I just think it's too early to remove a candidate for dollar reasons. What would you do? Hard cap it at, say, $5M (ooh, sorry Jon Lieber, you just missed the cut!) or somehow prorate it? I'm really not sure that another layer of complexity to the team's payroll would help the process without getting too subjective.

And of course, the end-of-year voting is already totally subjective!
_Jonny German - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 10:49 AM EST (#826) #
Nope, I'm not in favour of a hard cap. It's just too complicated - should it be a low-risk salary in relation to league averages, or his team's overall budget, or some combo thereof? What about whether or not it was a multi-year contract? I also don't think $/Win Share is a real good measure, as it will pretty much always be dominated by minimum-salary guys who don't fit into the high-reward end of the equation.

I personally would eliminate all of the players I listed in my previous post right off the bat. Yes, even the $2.75M Steve Kline. While it's possible that injuries or ineffectiveness in the Oriole pen could make Kline the closer and it's not impossible that he could go Gagne on the AL, he was signed to be a LOOGY and 2 years x $2.75M is not a low-risk contract for a LOOGY.

Richard Hidalgo is an interesting case - if the Rangers get the 2000 version of Hidalgo, that will have been a fabulous $5M investment. But is it low risk? Is it remotely reasonable to think that he might perform that well?

Ben Weber signed as a free agent, 1 year $600K.
Gitz - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 12:22 PM EST (#827) #
Though he may never have been an all-star, Ben Grieve was ROY, which has to qualify for some sort of all-star-like status. Should someone like Grieve be eligible? (On a related note, I wonder how many MVPs did not make the all-star team the year they won the MVP.)
_Jonny German - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 12:33 PM EST (#828) #
I think Grieve is a good candidate in spite of his ROY award, because if he performs at a high level this year it'll be a surprise to many. In particular, to every GM in the league - Grieve had to settle for a minor league contract.
_Mick - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 12:54 PM EST (#830) #
Greg, claiming a player off waivers seems to me to be a weird sort of free agent signing, so yeah, let's go with that. If Jenks wins the Andujar, I will eat a Shea Hillenbrand jersey.

Gitz, was that a trivia question you were posting or just a veiled reference to give you the excuse to remind everyone you were at The Kirk Gibson Game (he, after all, won the MVP but did not make the '88 All-Star team).
Gitz - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 12:56 PM EST (#831) #
That'll learn me for not reading: Dr. Doherty himself has proclaimed Grieve ineligble. Grieve would have made my forthcoming list, but perhaps an official ruling is due from our Andujar Coordinator, Mick Doherty.
Gitz - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 12:58 PM EST (#832) #
I think I have been zinged, yet again, by Doherty.

I wonder if I've mentioned the Gibson Game more than you've mentioned your adulation for John Halama. It would be an interesting, if entirely pointless, study.
Craig B - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 01:17 PM EST (#833) #
By the way, I think waiver moves should be allowed. In most waiver cases, players are waived in order to be released, so a waiver claim is equivalent to a FA signing.

it would be hard to give an Andujar to any player with a salary over $5 million - that's not really low risk - but that's just my personal guideline

It would be impossible, in my view. Giving that much money to a player is never low-risk.

Here's my candidates:

1. Wade Miller ($1.5 million? Are you KIDDIN' me!?!?)
2. Ben Weber ($600K? Are you kiddin' me?!?)
3. Josh Phelps ($800K)
4. Dennys Reyes ($550K)
5. Antonio Alfonseca ($320K)

Other good candidates :

Danny Patterson
Eric Munson
Matt Kinney, definitely
Esteban Yan
Chris Woodward
Damon Minor/Graham Koonce (only one will stick, but two good signings)
Jason Alfaro, I'm pulling for you, dude!
_Jonny German - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 01:39 PM EST (#834) #
1. Wade Miller ($1.5 million? Are you KIDDIN' me!?!?)

Nope, no kidding. But that's the salary if he stinks. Wade only has to pitch well enough to stay in the starting rotation and he'll earn another $3M in incentives (they're based on IP and roster time). Still a potentially great deal, but not the ridiculous bargain that the $1.5M looks like.
Mike Green - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 01:42 PM EST (#835) #
My ballot:

1. Josh Phelps
2. Wade Miller
3. Matt Mantei
4. Ben Grieve
5. Eric Munson

No new names, but the good ones were already taken.
_Mick - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 01:43 PM EST (#836) #
Though he may never have been an all-star, Ben Grieve was ROY

It's not an award exception -- according to BBRef, Grieve has, in fact, been an All-Star. If he has not, then he would be eligible. Is BBRef in error?
_Donkit R.K. - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 02:30 PM EST (#837) #
1. Wade Miller
2. Beltre
3. Hidalgo
4. Hammond
5. Adams

I think we should define low risk for guys like Beltre, but as it stands he is eligibile...
Craig B - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 02:38 PM EST (#838) #
Right. Forgot about the roster bonus.

$4.5M takes Miller into Hidalgo territory, and doesn't qualify so much as a top candidate. It's not hard to grab a good player if you're paying $4-5 million a pop.
Craig B - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 02:40 PM EST (#839) #
according to BBRef, Grieve has, in fact, been an All-Star

In 1998. Yes.

Among his AL All-Star teammates were Rolando Arrojo, Damion Easley, Dean Palmer, and Aaron Sele.
Craig B - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 02:52 PM EST (#840) #
Oh yeah, my entrant in the \"You'll Never See That Money Again Challenge\" is Seattle's signing of Yuniesky Betancourt. Wave bye-bye to your $3 million, guys. (If Betancourt hits in pro baseball, he'll be the first Cuban-trained player to do so in decades)
Mike Green - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 04:08 PM EST (#841) #
All right, Grieve's ineligible, so my list becomes

1. Josh Phelps
2. Wade Miller
3. Matt Mantei
4. Eric Munson
5. Billy Traber
_Mick - Wednesday, February 02 2005 @ 05:15 PM EST (#842) #
Oooh, Eric Munson ... that's a good one. And I missed it!
_scrawny pete - Thursday, February 03 2005 @ 09:45 AM EST (#843) #
Two more names to throw out there: Chris Truby (in the dark horse category -- hey, he might have a starting job) and, if Japanese all-star games don't count, Tadahito Iguchi, who could at least fulfil the value for the money requirement.
Thomas - Thursday, February 03 2005 @ 11:13 AM EST (#844) #
I agree, all the good names are taken, so nothing new here.

1. Ben Weber
2. Wade Miller
3. Dustan Mohr
4. Josh Phelps
5. Billy Traber

Name that hasn't been mentioned yet: Seth Etherton.
_Jonny German - Thursday, February 03 2005 @ 11:24 AM EST (#845) #
Updating my ballot to remove Grieve:

1. Matt Kinney
2. Billy Traber
3. Matt Mantei
4. Alex Cora
5. Josh Phelps
_Six4Three - Thursday, February 03 2005 @ 02:01 PM EST (#846) #
Here is my list:
1)Jon Lieber
2)Wade Miller
3)Alex Cora
4)Jose Valentin
5)Chris Woodward
_WillRain - Friday, February 04 2005 @ 12:43 AM EST (#847) #
Leiber was an All-Star

Here's mine:

Dustin Mohr (can't argue with coors)
Billy Koch (gotta include a Jay, and Koskie is too obvious)
Mark Redman (ala Suppan a couple years back)
Dennis Tankersley (the Royals have to catch a break sometime, don't they?)
Antonio Osuna (if he gets the chance...)

Wade Miller is too obvious, IMO.

BTW, it won't show up this year, but the best signing this offseason, IMO, in this catagory, is Scott Williamson.

I INTENSELY wise the Jays had made that move instead of the Cubs.
Craig B - Friday, February 04 2005 @ 01:59 AM EST (#848) #
Name that hasn't been mentioned yet: Seth Etherton.

Well, we haven't mentioned Albie Lopez either; let's not go nuts!
Craig B - Friday, February 04 2005 @ 02:01 AM EST (#849) #
By the way, has Jose Valentin now passed Tim Salmon as the best player not to have been an All-Star? (Now that Abreu got named last year...)
_Mick - Friday, February 04 2005 @ 10:44 AM EST (#850) #
Craig, I admit I sort of blew off Etherton with my snarky \"he's no Mark Mulder\" comment in the article, but I can see why he might turn into a nice 12-game winner in OAK.
_Jonny German - Friday, February 04 2005 @ 11:10 AM EST (#851) #
WillRain, Redman is ineligible - he was traded to Pittsburgh, not signed as a free agent. Likewise Tankersly, traded to KC.
Mike Green - Friday, February 04 2005 @ 11:25 AM EST (#852) #
Jonny, Alex Cora is an excellent addition to your list.

Well, we haven't mentioned Albie Lopez either; let's not go nuts!

When I read Albie's name on the transaction list in the newspaper, I laughed and laughed. He really is an excellent example of \"youneverknow\".
_Parker - Friday, February 04 2005 @ 09:56 PM EST (#853) #
In no particular order:

1) Dustan Mohr
2) Billy Koch
3) Matt Kinney
4) Eric Munson
5) Pokey Reese

I'm not bothering with the likes of Hidalgo, Miller, and Beltre. I'd rather be wrong on all five than right about the same three guys as everyone else. :D
Craig B - Friday, February 04 2005 @ 11:07 PM EST (#854) #
I will say this about Etherton - he seems to be pitching much more effectively now that he's fully recovered from his labrum surgery. He might actually surprise us.
_Jeff - Wednesday, February 09 2005 @ 10:26 PM EST (#855) #
I'll go a little off the map.

1. Juan Castro
2. Terry Long
3. Desi Relaford
4. Danny Bautisa
5. Scott Elarton
Joe - Sunday, February 20 2005 @ 05:33 PM EST (#103205) #
Despite his disproprotionately large salary, I have a sneaking suspiscion that Clement might, in retrospect, look like a really good signing for the BoSox.

Of course, last season, I thought that Phelps and Hinske were going to have break-out seasons, so don't take my predictions too seriously.

Jonny German - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 09:53 AM EST (#103442) #
Can I add Matt Diaz to my ballot even though he's currently a free agent? The clueless Devil Rays released him this week, and surprisingly the Orioles claimed him on waivers. But Diaz refused the claim (you can do that?), and so he's a free agent.

He's 27 years old and has only a handful of games in the Majors on his resume, but check out what he did last year in Durham: .332 / .377 / .571 in 503 AB, 15 for 19 stealing and 5 triples for good measure. The bad news: 96 Ks against just 26 walks. But hey, that's a better walk rate than a certain other righthanded bat that will be DHing for the Jays...
Mick Doherty - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 10:32 AM EST (#103443) #
JG, are you suggesting Diaz would be a nice fit in a certain AL East team's DH slot?
Jonny German - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 11:13 AM EST (#103447) #
3 AL East teams even, at least on a platoon basis. And it appears he has good speed, so he could also be a pinch runner and 4th or 5th outfielder.
Mick Doherty - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 02:52 PM EST (#103477) #
By the way, has Jose Valentin now passed Tim Salmon as the best player not to have been an All-Star? (Now that Abreu got named last year...)

Craig, just active or all-time? Because unless I am mistaken, former NL MVP Kirk Gibson never made an All-Star team.

Craig B - Thursday, February 24 2005 @ 09:33 PM EST (#103540) #
I meant active players, yeah. Some pretty good players from a long time ago never made All-Star teams either... some guy named Cobb, for one :)
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