Bring on Bonds? I don't like the idea of counting on a 40 year old Matt Stairs at DH. I wouldn't mind Glaus at DH. Oh, wait...
Sorry to see him go, but this is absolutely the right move. He's done. He can't catch up to average fastballs any more. He looked terrible in Spring Training, hitting 160/176/260 and had two big hits against Manny Delcarmen so far this season, which got him to 167/303/360. He's not off to a slow start - his career is over. The Jays gave him 110 ABs in ST and the regular season and came to the conclusion that he simply doesn't have it any more.
It's also clear that he was already becoming a pouty whiner. Too bad it couldn't work out, but if he was being paid big bucks to hit the ball, and he couldn't do that. For this team to make the playoffs, everything has to go right. They can't afford to wait until June to realize that Thomas was done. Bring on the Adam Lind era - he might not ever be a regular major leaguer, but the Jays at least have a chance with him. Say what you will, but this team is not being complacent.
I'm a little surprised it came this quick, but it's probably the best for everybody. If you have a player that offers nothing but his bat and his bat isn't particularly impressive it's a waste of a roster spot, particularly when you have to pinch run for him late in the game.
Blair noted in spring training that his bat speed seemed especially slow, which I'm sure is in some part was Jays officials saying the same thing. I wonder if there's any way that teams measure bat speed.
The good thing with this, assuming Lind is recalled, is that now Stairs and Lind can both play at the same time with the DH spot opened up which balances the lineup a little more.
Effectively this ended up being a one year, $18 million deal. Sure, it's just money (and not mine!) but you'd wish that it was better spent in the first place.
The size of the contract only matters to us mere mortals. How fortunate Matt Stairs or even a Stairs/Lind/Barajas combo can handle DH. There's no reason it can't provide a .300 BA spot and good slugging.
Hats off to Gibbons and JP. Gibbons' press conference yesterday was an understated masterpiece.
It was a bit messy, but these things are almost never nice.
Agreed. A Stairs/Thomas DH platoon was never going to happen since this would have resulted in Thomas' option not vesting and would have allowed Thomas to hang around and be given a forum to kvetch. He'll now have to do his kvetching from afar, which will be far less disruptive.
From too many bodies for too few rules, the team now has some potential challenges at the other extreme. Is Stairs healthy enough to man the busy half of a DH platoon? And if he's not, who steps in? And who assumes the other half of the platoon? Stewart? It sure looks like LF is up for grabs now. How about a Lind/Johnson platoon? No wait, Johnson is now the Cubs' starting center fielder.
It's premature to panic, but a little voice in the back of my head is screaming BERG! BERG! BERG! and is cautioning me to the threat of seeing a whole more of Scutario and Inglett in LF than is reasonably tolerated.
Why do I think Thomas is going to catch on in Oakland again?
Presuming that his vesting option still holds, I think the only way Thomas catches on with anyone is if he is prepared to not see enough playing time to trigger the option. What team would be foolish enough to give more than the 300-odd more PAs that he needs?
As for Oakland, they are already carrying Sweeney and Cust. While Sweeney could well be toast (he sure looked that way in KC) and while Cust is doing precious little to prove that the league hasn't figured him out, I still have a hard time seeing them making room for Thomas, even for the $300K he'd cost. Frankly, I don't know that it's a given that Thomas ends up anywhere. Maybe the Twins? Maybe? The chirping Thomas is doing (and presumably will continue to do) won't help his cause.
I think now, in retrospect, the Thomas contract was a mistake. (I also thought it was a mistake when the Jays signed him). It has cost the Jays almost $20 million for a year and a few weeks of play.
What are the chances we will be in the same place this time next year with Matt Stairs? Giving multi-year contracts to players in their high 30's, particularly now that the drug clampdown is underway, is very high risk for a team.
I don't pretend to know either, but the fact that the option would be void if Thomas is released from his current contract is logical. If it can vest even if Thomas reaches those plate appearances with another team than that is a major oversight on the front office's part. Those are exactly the sorts of things that whoever is responsible for contract language in the front office has to be aware of, particularly when giving contracts to 38-year-old DHs.
Blue Jays general manager J.P. Ricciardi told ESPN's Peter Gammons that the release of Thomas was "by mutual consent. He doesn't want to be here if he's not going to play much, and we don't want him to be unhappy. He handled it with class, and I appreciate that."
"Our best opportunity is to put other guys in the lineup at this point," Ricciardi said, according to The Associated Press. "Obviously, reduced playing time is not something that he was interested in. In order to let him go forward and get on with his career, I think it's fair to do it at this point."
"I don't know that we have the luxury of waiting two to three months for somebody to kick in because we can't let this league or this division get away from us," Ricciardi said, according to the AP.
In other news Rolen is starting at DH for Dunedin today.
if Thomas is released from his current contract
Thomas, I'm going to continue to quibble over your semantics. Thomas was not released from his contract. The Jays are not in a position to unilaterally make that happen. The contract has not become null and void. It is still very much in effect. The Jays are on the hook for Thomas' 2008 salary. The only question is what becomes of the vesting option should another team pick up Thomas (contributing the prorated portion of the league's minimum salary to the money owed to Thomas).
Perhaps there is wording suggesting that the vesting only occurs if the required PAs are accumulated with the Jays (your assumption, if I read you correctly). Perhaps the wording is such that any team taking on the contract (even though they'd just be paying roughly $300K of the $10M owed in 2008) is the team that must honour the vesting option (my assumption). Perhaps, but almost totally unlikely (what would be the point of employing lawyers if this slipped through?), is that the Jays themselves would be on the hook for the money in 2009 should the vesting option be reached, even with another team.
Fair enough. Perhaps my wording was clumsy, as I didn't mean his contract was null and void as obviously the Jays are on the hook for the money, but I've always assumed contingent aspects of the contract, such as incentives and so forth, would be null and void if a new team assumes the pro-rated portion of the contract. We'll see who is right, as I expect Thomas will certainly get picked up if the option is null and void. If it is still in effect, I'd be surprised if someone signs him.
Regardless, we both agree on the important point, which is that is would be an egregious oversight if the Jays were on the hook for Thomas' option even if he was released. And that's not the case, as Campbell indicated.
We'll see who is right, as I expect Thomas will certainly get picked up if the option is null and void. If it is still in effect, I'd be surprised if someone signs him.
I agree though it may not be inconceivable that a team like the Twins offers Thomas the weak half of a DH platoon with Kubel, thereby keeping Thomas in MLB and giving him a shot to audition for 2009 and also guaranteeing the Twins that Thomas won't be getting 300 more PAs.
And my guess that his vesting option will still hold is just that, a guess. I really have no idea. I have no more reason to believe that it will hold than it won't, other than I'd imagine Thomas' agent to have been shrewd enough to ensure the wording were favourable to his client.
I notice that Rolen was pinch hit for in the DH spot after three at bats, rehab not going well, or was that all he was supposed to get for the first game back?
I understand it's about the $10 million next year. However, REAL contending teams don't think about vesting options - they think about maximizing CURRENT production.
What happens, if, for example, Thomas proves that he can still hit and the Jays finish a game back of the wild card. Let's also say that they'll have to spend a few million in 2009 on someone to replace what Thomas would have done. Will that $5-$7 million in savings be worth missing the playoffs in 2008? Of course not.
Like I said, REAL contenders worry about winning. Now.
Perhaps the Jays are just faux contenders after all.
REAL contenders with unlimited payrolls don't think about vesting options. That would be the Yankees. Couple that with the fact that the Jays can likely get DH production in excess of Thomas' through July from the likes of Lind, Robinson and Barajas, and that they can add a bat at the trade deadline if they aren't, then this is a good move.
You want a boner for the ages, how about including a future Hall of Famer as an extra part thrown-in on top of a swap of bad old shortstops? That's my favourite...
I admit, as one not as well-versed in Jay history as most around here, the reference eludes me. Who what when?
I shall now go give myself 40 lashes with something written by Bill James ...
I hope the Jays aren't planning on using Barajas as the right side of a DH platoon over the long-term. I'd personally like to see Zaun and Barajas be catchers, Lind play every day in left field (even if he bats 9th against lefties), with Stairs as the DH against RHP and Stewart as the DH against LHP. I think that having Lind and Stairs both in the lineup improves the Jays' offense against right-handers, who obviously account for most of the pitchers the Jays will face. Stewart makes a weak DH against LHP, and a passable 4th outfielder. Overall, though, I think the Jays are better off without Thomas, both in the short-term and the financial long-term. I know this season's just begun, but paying Thomas $10 million in 2009 would have limited the Jays' options next year regarding free agent aquisitions.
If Stewart can't cut it as a platoon DH against LHP, it shouldn't be very hard for J.P. to find a right-handed hitting partner for Stairs. Isn't Craig Wilson still available? He's had very lopsided splits and has mashed LHP with a .917 OPS over his career.
I admit, as one not as well-versed in Jay history as most around here, the reference eludes me. Who what when?
I shall now go give myself 40 lashes with something written by Bill James ...
I think that the reference is to the Ryne Sandberg trade.It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out this would end badly with the vesting option attached to the contract. Two seasons pay for a seasons work. Poor, poor judgement by Ricciardi.
I'm in the same camp as those who would have played this senario out longer. As Robert Dudek said, would the Yankee's, Angels or Red Sox be looking at next years options in the first month of this season, a season where they are supposed to compete.
Mr. Godfrey sir, er Sir Godfrey, respectfully sir, give your head a shake. The faith of the faithfull is being stretched once again.
The Dunedin Jay's website says; Rolen flied out to CF in the first, lined out to CF in the 3rd and popped out to 1st in the 5th.
Thomas, Stairs and Gibby all created this mess. The Frankster should have taken the benching with grace and campaigned to be a platoon DH with Stairs - at least until he got hot (IF - he got hot). If TB picks him up, as is rumoured - August and September could get uncomfortable. Stairs had a LOT to do with the mess too. Stairs has looked zoned in this past week while Frank as been flailing. Gibby has his problem too. Win or so-long Gibbster. Gibby knows we (he) just can't give up April and May.
By mid-May Lind and Rolen will be into the flow of things and with Rios, Wells, Hill, Stairs and Overbay we'll have enough hitting if the pitching holds up.
The pitching - wow. Who'd-a thought that we'd find Carlson, Purcey and Camp all making meaningful contributions this early in 08?
On Purcey - what we saw is the Purcey we've kept in the minors these past few years - tons of stuff but no control. HOWEVER, this was the one off - Purcey has turned it around starting last fall into this spring and his wildness his first Big League game was just nerves. Even the way he was - he's as good as AJ. Lookin' forward to our two supplemental picks for AJ in the 09 draft.
Rotoworld is saying Robinson Diaz is being called up. The 6' 225" right handed hitter in 38 AAA at bats is hitting 368/390/553 with 2BB/3SO. He's killing lefties at a 563 clip and his only homerun in 16 at bats. In 22 at bats he's hitting righties at an ugly 227 clip. The way we've been getting beat up by lefties he might be a useful addition.
Keith Law Posted: April 20, 2008 at 08:17 PM (#2752302)
Just in case anyone is still wondering, the Jays are on the hook for all the guaranteed money in Thomas' contract, which means the remainder of his salary for 2008. They're not on the hook for the option, unless there was also a buyout involved, which doesn't appear to be the case here.
"It's a real sad state of affairs when I'm not even sure if this post is sarcastic."
It's definitely sarcastic.
I think.
Breaking News
David Ortiz (.141/.247/.225), Alfonso Soriano (.175/.230/.298), Jason Giambi (.116/.291/.302), Carlos Delgado (.213/.329/.311) and Paul Konerko (.172/.319/.362) NOT released!
....in other Breaking News, Ortiz, Soriano, Konerko are 32, Delgado 35, and Giambi 37 and only Giambi's Yankees are more than .5 games out of first.
I honestly don't understand the vitriol over this decision. The truth of the matter is NO-ONE knows for certain that Frank has anything left in the tank. The only really surprising element is that people are convinced that it is impossible for a soon to be 40 year old player to have fallen off a cliff. History has generally not been kind to 40 year olds not named Bonds. As has already been noted, his slugging percentages have been in sharp decline the last couple of seasons and his OPS+ last year was the second lowest of his career for a full season.
Frank has attributed his slow start to bad luck and with a BABIP of .159 that might make sense. However, could that figure also be influenced by a LD% of 12.8% and a GB% of 31.9%? The numbers would seem to at least partially support the game day observations that Frank is just not hitting the ball all that hard. To my untrained and admittedly amateurish eye, Thomas has become a mistake hitter, constantly guessing at the plate. Frank himself mentioned the second homerun of Delcarmen was a guess on the fastball, considering Delcarmen had bemoaned the fact that Frank had beat him on his second best pitch (the slider) the game earlier.
Again, I don't know that the end of very good production for Frank is here, but at his age it is certainly a very realistic possibility. Call it what you will, I at least applaud the Jays for essentially deciding that they had made a mistake and moving on instead of using the "typical slow start" crutch as justification for keeping what they had now evaluated as a potential sink hole in the lineup for another couple of months. The fact of the matter is they need production, and they need it now.
If the implication here is that Thomas was a performance enhancing drug user I would suggest that that is wildly off base. He has been outspoken about drug use his entire career, and came into the majors the human giant that he is.
While not entirely knowing the original poster's intent, he could be pointing out that since Frank is almost certainly not a PED user, he's facing the normal late-career flame out that regular people face. Unlike people who almost certainly were PED users, and managed to have near-career years at ages 40 to 43.
Dave, is there any basis for this besides your assumption? Johnson's been a platoon player basically the entire time he was with Toronto and never seemed particularly unhappy about it. I'm sure he would have rather been a starter, but I've never read about him sulking or speaking out because he wasn't getting playing time. Plus, Johnson would have earned more money had he stayed with the Jays (his contract here over a full year was worth more than the 1/6th the Jays had to pay plus the amount the Cubs guaranteed him). Johnson's not a guy who's ever going to sign a big-money free agent contract, so that extra million and a half could have made a big difference to him and his family.
Sure, he might be able to parlay more regular playing time with the Cubs into a bigger contract this offseason than he would have got staying with Toronto, but there's no guarantee of that. There was also no guarantee that Felix Pie would not have got off to a hot start and relegated Johnson to real bench duties, as opposed to the platoon situation he had in Toronto. That's still a possibility. Things look to be working out well for him so far, but I've never heard anything that indicated he was unwilling to be a bench/platoon player or would have been a distraction if he wasn't starting. Maybe you have information that indicates otherwise but I've never heard anything that says he was unhappy playing for the Jays.
