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Just was thinking about how dominating Bautista has been these last two years and got to thinking about which Jay had the most dominating season (vs teammates) all time? What about by position?

First you have to find a method to measure dominance then you need to get it for the team and individual to figure out who had the highest percentage of the team total each year by position (using primary position, thus Bautista in 2010 and 2011 is a right fielder). There are an assortment of ways to do this, from simple RBI's (ugh) to WAR (but which version?). To make life easy I am not worrying about their defense, just offense. A simple method is good old Runs Created. Not the #1 method, but it is easy to calculate and run with the Lahman database and it is close enough for our purposes here. I'll be using the 2002 method since it is marginally more accurate and still works easily within the database.

So for reference the biggest RC seasons for a Jays team (thus the hardest to dominate) are 1999 (890) and 2000 (877) while the lowest are the strike years and 1978 (590) - thus easier to dominate. The highest RC seasons ever for an individual Jay are Carlos Delgado 2000 (161) and (149). Lowest score is sub-0 for Joe Cannon (1980) at -2.7 with another 124 also sub-0

On to the results...
Name Year Position Runs Created % of Team RC
Darrin Fletcher 2000 C 73 8.31%
Carlos Delgado 2000 1B 161 18.33%
Roberto Alomar 1991 2B 105 14.79%
Kelly Gruber 1990 3B 97 12.82%
Alfredo Griffin 1979 SS 77 12.88%
George Bell 1987 LF 119 14.41%
Devon White 1991 CF 101 14.25%
Jose Bautista 2011 RF 134 18.61%
Paul Molitor 1994 DH 95 16.98%
Roger Clemens 1997 P 1 0.16%

Now I'm sure more than one of you, much like I did, are going 'that cannot be right' in some cases. How can Alfredo Griffin make any positive offensive list? How can Devo win in CF over Moseby & Wells? Quite simply, this is comparing them to their teams and the 1979 Jays had a horrid offense (to put it mildly). Plus during the post-strike era up until recently offense has been so high it takes an extreme to make it (Delgado & Fletcher 2000) and Wells wasn't able to as he had Delgado or Bautista or a solid team offense to deal with. What this chart shows is why guys like Alfredo Griffin were loved back in the early 80's - he was a key part of the (pathetic) offense early on thus seen as better than he was.

For reference here are the peaks for runs created, regardless of team context.
Name Year Position Runs Created % of Team RC
Darrin Fletcher 2000 C 73 8.31%
Carlos Delgado 2000 1B 161 18.33%
Roberto Alomar 1993 2B 120 14.13%
Eric Hinske 2002 3B 98 12.72%
Tony Fernandez 1986 SS 100 12.67%
George Bell 1987 LF 119 14.41%
Vernon Wells 2003 CF 123 14.17%
Jose Bautista 2011 RF 134 18.61%
Paul Molitor 1993 DH 130 15.27%
Roger Clemens 1997 P 1.04 0.16%

Another item of note: just how weak 3B has been in Jays history. Never getting 100 RC out of that slot is surprising. Glaus & Rolen both were very solid, but couldn't reach it during their limited time here. Gruber had injury issues. Mulliniks/Iorg split time there for years. Sprague just wasn't that good and Hinske had just one good year. For those wondering, Brett Lawrie was on pace for 112 over 150 games (given how he plays I doubt he'll ever play much more than 150 in a season).

This also shows just how amazing Delgado was in 2000 - to outproduce at a level like that when the team was amazing offensively outside of him is a major achievement.

For those who are also curious about career figures I checked % of team offense for 100+ game seasons (ie: I didn't count Delgado's and Wells' cups of tea against them).
Name RC Seasons Av % Per Season
Paul Molitor 306 3 14.74%
Carlos Delgado 1,024 9 14.18%
Dave Winfield 105 1 13.69%
Roberto Alomar 486 5 13.52%
Fred McGriff 390 4 12.90%
John Mayberry 234 3 12.80%
Ron Fairly 73 1 12.06%
George Bell 651 7 12.00%
Shannon Stewart 491 5 11.86%
Joe Carter 582 7 11.69%
Vernon Wells 792 9 11.25%
Raul Mondesi 87 1 11.18%
John Olerud 571 7 11.15%
Devon White 396 5 11.04%
Roy Howell 202 3 11.03%
Tony Fernandez 691 8 10.90%
Jose Canseco 91 1 10.87%
Shawn Green 425 5 10.87%
Willie Upshaw 498 6 10.78%

Again, it shows why some players were viewed as better than they were - because the team around them, well, stunk. To be viewed as great you need to be a solid player and the weaker your teammates the better you will be viewed.

A final reminder - I am not saying Runs Created is the best method of measuring offense, just that it is useful for an exercise like this - to try to understand who the dominate players are in Jays history and why some guys were viewed as great who were not (such as Alfredo Griffin - I loved watching him as a kid, but know he wasn't really that good).
Most Dominating Jays Seasons By Position | 54 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
TamRa - Monday, October 17 2011 @ 11:07 PM EDT (#245873) #
Much prefer the second list, but i'll still take Gruber over Hinske (in fact i'll take Glaus ...and Rolen...over Hinske)
Magpie - Monday, October 17 2011 @ 11:22 PM EDT (#245874) #
just how weak 3B has been in Jays history. Never getting 100 RC out of that slot is surprising.

Indeed. The Iorg-Mulliniks tag team combined for 114 RC in 1985, 66 from Rance and 48 from Garth. Iorg played 23 games at 2b that year, which was about one-fourth of his playing time, so they probably did clear 100 at 3b between them. Gruber had 101 RC in his big year (1990), although Gaston was forced to play him in right field for a week or so.
Mick Doherty - Tuesday, October 18 2011 @ 12:29 AM EDT (#245875) #
Ron Fairly!!!!
Mike Green - Tuesday, October 18 2011 @ 10:42 AM EDT (#245878) #
Jeff Blair's column today in the Globe contains two comments about the building of the Cardinals that are interesting.  Blair comments that the Cardinals have taken advantage of the talents of Jon Jay, and Blair points out that Jay has saved the Cardinals 14 runs on defence this season (referring to DRS, but not with reference to any other metric incidentally).  Blair then cites LaRussa's well-known acerbic comments about moving Berkman to right-field and his lack of range with disparaging comments about Moneyball. 

The funny thing about it is that the preference for Jay (the low-ceilinged player with underappreciated talents) over Rasmus, and the conversion of Rasmus into very useful parts for a playoff run, would be a classic old-school Moneyball move. 

John Northey - Tuesday, October 18 2011 @ 12:14 PM EDT (#245879) #
The RC for Gruber being over 100 is due to a different formula. There have been a few over the years and I'm using one of the most recent for this exercise. Guess WAR isn't the only item with multiple versions kicking around. B-R uses a different version than I did, this one has lower figures than B-R's version. Didn't notice the difference until I double checked the 2011 figures and had to do some fixes.

Regardless, the end result is the same - 3B has never had a true star player for the Jays (Gruber & Sprague making the All-Star team notwithstanding), unlike SS/2B/1B/LF/CF/RF/DH. Catcher has also been weak, but that position you can live with being weak more than 3B.
zeppelinkm - Tuesday, October 18 2011 @ 12:20 PM EDT (#245880) #

Interesting article over at HBT about catchers and blocking pitches.  http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/another-one-bites-the-dust/

At first glance it appears to the pass the smell test, as Gregg Zaun scored well. And Bengie Molina and JP Arencibia did not. This matches with visual, subjection impressions I've had of those catchers.

John Northey - Tuesday, October 18 2011 @ 01:43 PM EDT (#245881) #
A shame it doesn't have stats for guys with under 500 innings. Would've been interesting to see the Jays current Molina, especially over a few years.
Mick Doherty - Tuesday, October 18 2011 @ 02:42 PM EDT (#245883) #

classic old-school Moneyball

Michael, is this phrase not a self-contradiction?  8-P

John Northey - Tuesday, October 18 2011 @ 03:25 PM EDT (#245884) #
Hey, in the internet era something from more than 2 years ago is old school :)

Btw, just think, kids in grade one (such as my youngest) were born AFTER Moneyball was printed (heck, after it shifted to clearance bins).
Mike Green - Tuesday, October 18 2011 @ 03:29 PM EDT (#245885) #
I am not so old yet that the difference between 5 and 10 years ago is lost on me.  That day, alas, is coming all too soon, when it will be one Glory Days mush.  Until then, I'm not embracing, treasuring or respecting this particular kind of fog despite the counsel of some wise experienced  people around here. 

John Northey, it might be an idea for the pitchers to use "pitcher's runs created", so Clemens doesn't show as creating 1 run.  After all that Roger has been through, he probably could use a break. 
Chuck - Tuesday, October 18 2011 @ 03:32 PM EDT (#245886) #
Ron Fairly!!!!

He was on my radar long before he was a Jay, back when I saw games at Jarry Park. And he wasn't to be confused with Jim Fairey. Fairly could hit. Fairey, not so much.
Chuck - Tuesday, October 18 2011 @ 03:36 PM EDT (#245887) #

Hey, in the internet era something from more than 2 years ago is old school :)

I thought your use of dominate as an adjective (before you changed it) was intentionally ironic, as a nod to its current usage by kids these days. Maybe you're just really young at heart (fairy tales can come true, it can happen to you...).

Dewey - Tuesday, October 18 2011 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#245888) #
What an amazing year Carlos had in 2000! These charts remind me exactly why I was so sad to see him go. And how well Molitor, especially, and Winfield did for us in their brief stays.

Ron Fairly was our very first all-star team member, as I recall. (Or was it Bob Bailor?) Didnít hang around long though.
John Northey - Tuesday, October 18 2011 @ 04:48 PM EDT (#245889) #
Heh. With Clemens he did have the best offensive year for a pitcher in Jays history - not that it is saying much. He was the only one to crack 1.0 for RC (forget the exact fraction).

In 1997 he was 1 for 2 with a double and a walk, no strikeouts, no sacrifices. So a 21-7 2.05 ERA with 292 K's over 264 IP plus hitting a double. 222 ERA+ and a 331 OPS+. Looking back at those 2 years I can live with the stuff that came out later as those 2 years were just so amazing to watch. Especially the game he had back in Boston that first year.
finch - Tuesday, October 18 2011 @ 10:46 PM EDT (#245893) #

Off topic...

Gut feeling here that Prince Fielder is aquired via trade before he becomes a free agent. Prospect like McGuire gets moved along with young roster player(s) such as Brett Cecil and Eric Thames. That's what my gut is telling me. Now is this better than the two comp picks the Brewers would get? I think it would be.

Thoughts?

92-93 - Tuesday, October 18 2011 @ 11:03 PM EDT (#245896) #
Wouldn't Fielder have had to clear waivers to be traded before the free agency period opens?
Magpie - Tuesday, October 18 2011 @ 11:57 PM EDT (#245897) #
Wouldn't Fielder have had to clear waivers to be traded before the free agency period opens?

Yup. The waiver period runs from August 1 through November 10. I'm pretty sure Fielder will have filed his FA papers by then. I believe he's got 15 days after the WS ends.
Mick Doherty - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 01:05 AM EDT (#245898) #

(fairy tales can come true, it can happen to you...).

Ah, but not (Jim) Fairey tales ....

Chuck - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 08:27 AM EDT (#245899) #

Ah, but not (Jim) Fairey tales ....

That's Fairly clever.

James W - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 09:07 AM EDT (#245900) #
I'd have to vote for intentional, rather than ironic. The same error is still in the piece in the last paragraph. (Feel free to delete this upon editing.)
Mike Green - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 10:05 AM EDT (#245901) #
Last week, I found out that my high school English teacher Dr. Montgomery passed at the ripe old age of 89.  One of the regular elements of his class was "the word of the week". In Saturday's crossword in my newspaper was the clue "Astuteness(12)", which I filled in with "perspicacity" without a moment's hesitation, thanks to the good doctor's teachings.  Perspicacity had been the word of the week more than once; I think that the doctor liked the rhythm of the word. 

The doctor also had an excellent, quaintly salacious sense of humour.  When I hear Roger Clemens described as a dominant pitcher, I think of his sordid personal life and I do have to stifle a snicker. 

Chuck - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 10:48 AM EDT (#245903) #

It must have been a hell of a high school to have a PhD teaching English.

Mick Doherty - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 11:16 AM EDT (#245904) #
Not ALL that uncommon, Chuck -- i did, too, Dr. Demarkowski. Granted, it's usually at a private schol like where I went a hunnert years ago, Toledo St. John's Jesuit, but it's not rare at all.
Chuck - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 11:28 AM EDT (#245905) #
I guess I move in humbler circles. My English teachers were upright bipeds, and only sometimes a little more special than that.
Mike Green - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 11:38 AM EDT (#245907) #
"Hairless beach apes" also works for me, Chuck.

IIRC, many English teachers at the time had a Masters, but a PhD was a bit unusual.  Anyways, mine was the Halladay of high school English teachers.  I did not fully appreciate his teachings at the time, but some of them stuck. 
Jonny German - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 11:46 AM EDT (#245908) #
Gut feeling here that Prince Fielder is aquired via trade before he becomes a free agent. Prospect like McGuire gets moved along with young roster player(s) such as Brett Cecil and Eric Thames.

What would the Jays gain from this?
Dewey - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 12:03 PM EDT (#245909) #
Ah, these acknowledgements of old English teachers does my old English teacherís heart good;  not being just an upright biped or hairless beach ape myself, of course.  Pity that such (the good ones) are remembered so late.   (Actually, one of the most pleasant rewards of teaching is unexpectedly being recognized in, say, the grocery store, and meeting an old student who wants to talk to you/tell you about some book or class that you had long ago forgotten.  Of course, there are some who, spotting me, would probably have dashed to the other aisle at once.)   Yes ďperspicacityĒ is good, Mike.   So are crosswords, or many of them.
John Northey - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 12:49 PM EDT (#245910) #
Don't see the Jays doing a trade for a free agent where the cost is more than $500k or so. Trading 2 prospects when it is likely you'll end up with 2 draft picks doesn't makes sense. If the Jays were, say, a 100+ loss team right now then trading 2 mediocre prospects near the majors would make sense, hoping that your lottery ticket in the draft would produce better.

If the Jays could get a deal pre-signed with Fielder then it could work but then it would only make sense if the Jays felt their pre-free agency deal was significantly better than what Fielder would get as a free agent but that Fielder didn't know that.
Chuck - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 03:44 PM EDT (#245912) #

Ah, these acknowledgements of old English teachers does my old English teacherís heart good

I recently reconnected with an old English teacher from 30 years ago, one of the few teachers to leave a lasting impression. I was flattered that he remembered me and pleased to be able to finally tell him that he was that rare exception, an excellent teacher.

I'm sure that Dewey's encounters with old students are far more rewarding than he is letting on. You know, being perspicacious and all.

Mike Green - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 03:56 PM EDT (#245913) #
If we are in fantasy land, my baseball dreams involve Albert Pujols in a Blue Jay uniform followed by a rapprochement with Rasmus.  Unfortunately, prisons are more likely to be built in cornfields than baseball stadiums, and are also more likely to be filled. The chances of Albert landing here are maybe higher than baseball stadiums in cornfields but not much.
Mick Doherty - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 04:37 PM EDT (#245915) #
I've been out of the(college)  English teacher game for more than 15 years, but am beyond pleased that about 10 or so of my former students have become my "Facebook Friends," and I have in turn "friended" the most important English teacher *I* ever had (from high school, and no, not Doc Demar mentioned above) ....
Mylegacy - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 04:42 PM EDT (#245916) #
I too like Big Albert.

However, me thinks he's not in our future.

As to Rasmus - think of him as a RFer (Moving Bautista to the less demanding LF spot) or as a LFer fighting with Snider and Thames for playing time. As a CFer - Colby is just treading water - Gose and or Marisnick will supplant him shortly. By late 2013 (at the latest)  I expect both G & M to be in our outfield as regulars at CF and RF.

As to our possible "B" Free Agents - are any of them worth a Nicolino, Snydergaard, Hutchison, etc.? If not - and I say - NOT - then offer them arbitration and let them go. If Rauch threatens to accept arbitration - explain to him that if he can't make the team in Spring Training - he will be let go. That should encourage him to find another team.

If this is going to be the last year for "Type B" free agents then I say get a supplemental 1st pick for every one you can.

Chuck - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 05:12 PM EDT (#245917) #

I have in turn "friended" the most important English teacher *I* ever had

O Captain! My Captain!

bpoz - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 05:16 PM EDT (#245918) #
I too feel Rauch struggled at times. When it looked like he was in one of those struggling times, IMO a low leverage blowout game could have been helpful in him regaining his edge.

As Magpie explained a 5 run lead is a blowout, and Rauch can get his work in and we could still win the game. But it may no longer qualify as a blowout.

MyLegacy, can you release anyone in ST like you suggested. Specifically FAs & Arb signees.
bpoz - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 05:44 PM EDT (#245919) #
I may be wrong, but AA seems to give an option to almost all those non elite FAs he signs. So...why?

I am guessing that, since they are cheap, usually $500,000 it gives him control. So looking at the following players, if they have an option.
Fraser & Dotel seem high odds to get that draft pick, so they can be used that way.
EE can be used for the draft pick or kept as a RH power bat or kept and traded. He did have some hot streaks.
Rauch does seem to be the gamble.
Ducey - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 05:57 PM EDT (#245920) #

Fraser & Dotel seem high odds to get that draft pick, so they can be used that way.

Fraser is a CWS. 


Mike Green - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 05:57 PM EDT (#245921) #
I checked in on the AFL game.  The D-Dogs were trailing 3-0.  Gose came up with the bases loaded in the 5th and walked to make it 3-1; Gose came up with the bases loaded and 1 out in the 7th with a left-hander on the mound.  After fouling off a couple, he lined a single up the middle to tie the game.  Good. 
Mylegacy - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 07:41 PM EDT (#245923) #
A little more "Prospect Porn."

I've been surfing Drew Hutchison and picked up a few comments from several sites:

Drew turned 21 on August 22nd 2011. He's 6' 2" 165 pounds. His pitching plan is: pound down in the zone...considers himself a contact pitcher early in the count...if ahead try to finish them off...when signed his best pitch was said to be his "plus" change-up... he had an 88 to 92 fastball...he now has a 92 - 95 fastball "with sink" and has since developed a "potentially devastating" 86 - 88 "rapier slider."

His final 2011 stats at three levels: 2.53 era, 149.1 innings, 120 hits, 35 walks, 171 strike outs, batting average against .220.

Oh - I like this guy. I really - really - like this guy!

92-93 - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 09:10 PM EDT (#245925) #
Any word on why Gose is playing RF in the AFL?
Mike Green - Wednesday, October 19 2011 @ 10:01 PM EDT (#245926) #
Gose has played a little in center in the AFL.  The A's are converting Green from a shortstop to a centerfielder, so I imagine that they want him to get as much work as possible there.  And, of course, Gose does have that rifle arm, so he doesn't hurt the club in right-field.
BalzacChieftain - Thursday, October 20 2011 @ 08:43 AM EDT (#245927) #
Thanks Mylegacy. I didn't realize Hutchison had such a slight frame. I wonder if his body projects to be "whip-like/elasticy" (think Brandon McCarthy), or if he is going to add some weight to his frame. It may help his endurance and increase his velocity. Of course if he's only 21 I would imagine he still has physical development left. I can only imagine he will get better.
ogator - Thursday, October 20 2011 @ 01:08 PM EDT (#245928) #

  "I can only imagine he will get better."  Misplaced modifiers aside, unfortunately, there is another possibility that you aren't imagining.  Let's all hope you're right even though we know you might be wrong.

 

Richard S.S. - Thursday, October 20 2011 @ 02:19 PM EDT (#245930) #

... I believe he's got 15 days after the WS ends.

What 15 days?  Who changed the rules?  Last time I looked, Free Agent Period starts 5 days after the last games of the World Series.  The present World Series can end Oct. 23 - 27.   Free Agency can start Oct. 29 - Nov. 3.   So how does a Free Agent clear waivers?

...I didn't realize Hutchison had such a slight frame...

Metabolism matters, weight gain can be difficult until the body decides to become heavier.  He might need help.

rpriske - Friday, October 21 2011 @ 03:35 PM EDT (#245949) #

NEWS

 

From Twitter

BlueJays Blue Jays-Official The TORONTO BLUE JAYS announce that RHP JESSE CHAVEZ has been claimed off Outright Waivers from the Kansas City Royals.
rpriske - Friday, October 21 2011 @ 03:45 PM EDT (#245950) #
BlueJays Blue Jays-Official Additionally, LHP ROMMIE LEWIS, INF CHRIS WOODWARD and OF DEWAYNE WISE have all elected to become free agents.
John Northey - Friday, October 21 2011 @ 03:45 PM EDT (#245951) #
Jesse Chavez - RHP with a 77 ERA+ over 152 2/3 IP in relief for KC/Atl/Pit entering his age 28 season. 1.6 HR/9, 3.5 BB/9, 6.8 K/9. Not much to see here one would think.

In AAA this year he threw 57 2/3 IP (relief) with 8.4 K/9 and 2.5 BB/9 and 0.9 HR/9. So he improved in the minors but is there enough there to justify a 40 man roster slot? I don't see it. Might be an attempt to add depth to AAA.
jester00 - Friday, October 21 2011 @ 05:58 PM EDT (#245952) #

If it was strictly for minor league depth reasons, I would have preferred this guy. 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=thayer001dal

Outrighted as well today by the Mets.

bpoz - Saturday, October 22 2011 @ 10:54 AM EDT (#245954) #
I remember S Camp in Syracuse for some time, part of 1 or 2 years, then he got called up and eventually was quite useful.

J Chavez impressed Bobby Cox in ST in his last year managing. Above average FB & V good change up I believe.

You never know.
TamRa - Saturday, October 22 2011 @ 08:57 PM EDT (#245958) #
Quote:
I remember S Camp in Syracuse for some time, part of 1 or 2 years, then he got called up and eventually was quite useful.


No you don't.

Camp was an established (mediocre) major leaguer when he came to the jays and never played in our farm system.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=camp--001sha
TamRa - Saturday, October 22 2011 @ 08:59 PM EDT (#245959) #
no-edit edit:

10 IP in 2008 - but he'd been in the majors for parts of 4 seasons, totaling over 230 IP before that.
Anonymous - Friday, November 11 2011 @ 03:04 PM EST (#246617) #
Jose Bautista is the main reason I make it a point to travel all the way to Toronto a few times per year.  Watching him play in person is a treat.  Even though I live in Vancouver I am a huge Jays fan and love getting with my friends and making the road trip to catch a home Jays game.  We try to make the most of it and usually will stay a night or two to experience the city.  Does anybody know of any fun clubs to go to?  How about pizza places?  We have yet to find any pizza in Toronto that can rival Vancouver pizza and am hoping somebody can point us to a great pizza place.  So when will next season's schedule be released?
John Northey - Friday, November 11 2011 @ 03:12 PM EST (#246618) #
No idea on good pizza, but the schedule itself has been out for awhile now. http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/schedule/index.jsp?c_id=tor#m=4&y=2012

The time of day for each game isn't listed, but generally you can guess at 7 PM weekdays and 1 PM on weekends and be safe the vast majority of the time.
Anonymous - Tuesday, November 15 2011 @ 12:13 PM EST (#246705) #
Thanks John!
Paul D - Tuesday, November 15 2011 @ 12:26 PM EST (#246708) #
Pizzeria Libretto is the hip new pizza joint.  That and Queen Margherita.  They're both thin crust, Italian (Neopolitan?) style pizza.   Libretto is closer to the Rogers Centre (but not close).
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