Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Yu really hope this is for real

gnor - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:50 AM EST (#249176) #

Methinks The Japanese will have contacted the winning team before the public announcement is made. If in fact, it is The Blue Jays, AA, as per his previous practice, will want it kept quiet until everything is done and Yu Who shows up in Toronto. With Hechavarria, The Blue Jays did not make an announcement until his visa and everything else was in place.

Gwyn - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:52 AM EST (#249177) #

Well at least I can stop the constant refreshing of mlbtraderumors.com now...

whiterasta80 - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:56 AM EST (#249178) #

I don't want a second baseman

There is just one thing I need

I don't care about relievers

Or a late inning Loogy

I just want an Ace to own

More than you could ever know

AA, please be true

All I want for Christmas is Yu

Forkball - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 11:10 AM EST (#249181) #

Well at least I can stop the constant refreshing of mlbtraderumors.com now...

I'd be surprised if a legit leak didn't come out before then. I'm still constantly checking my Twitter feed.

John Northey - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 11:12 AM EST (#249182) #

It is fun to keep checking http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/yu_darvish/ and seeing the latest. The latest at this point is...

The Nippon Ham Fighters will announce their acceptance of the high bidder and the winning team for Yu Darvish tonight, tweets Danny Knobler of CBS Sports, referencing agent Don Nomura. Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports notes that the announcement will be around 7-8pm central time. Rumors so far suggest the Blue Jays or Rangers won the bid at an amount exceeding $51MM.

Mick Doherty - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 11:20 AM EST (#249183) #

whiterastta80 ....

+1
Awesome, dude.

Thomas - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 11:22 AM EST (#249184) #

The Commissioner's Office has already announced they will issue a press release as soon as Nippon announces the acceptance that states who won the bid, but not the amount. There is no doubt that the first stage of the Darvish saga will be over in 10 hours. Then, some team's fans will deal with 30 days of prolonged negotiations.

Dewey - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 12:18 PM EST (#249188) #

I'm a bit worried about melondough. In the other Yu thread, I suggested he get some rest, in readiness for the big announcement. But he's disappeared! I trust he didn't take offense. My remarks were entirely compassionate, I assure you. I've been there. Long, long ago--in the days before iPods even--there was a cartoon in the Globe & Mail depicting a man in his sick-bed; beside him his wife, a toddler, and the family dog stared anxiously at him as a doctor (you see, I told you it was long, long ago, when house-calls were made, at least in cartoons) pronounced that the patient would recover nicely once Ernie Whitt re-signed with the Jays. Fandom can be dangerous, if not dealt with very judiciously.

Melandough come back. Your tribulations will soon be over. Then there'll be a new 30 days for you. Winter will fly by.

BalzacChieftain - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 12:19 PM EST (#249189) #

The New York Post reported a few days ago that the Jays bid was in the $40-50M range. If that is true, then the rumour that the winning bid is north of Dice-K's posting fee of $51M would guarantee that the Jays lost the bid. That being said, it's all speculation at this point, and using rumours to corroborate other rumours without solid sources is a paltry exercise at best.

PeteMoss - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 12:22 PM EST (#249190) #

If you want a distraction... Baseball America just released its top 10 prospects for the Jays:

1. Travis d'Arnaud, c
2. Anthony Gose, of
3. Jake Marisnick, of
4. Daniel Norris, lhp
5. Justin Nicolino, lhp
6. Aaron Sanchez, rhp
7. Noah Syndergaard, rhp
8. Deck McGuire, rhp
9. Drew Hutchison, rhp
10. Asher Wojciechowski, rhp

http://ht.ly/848pe

crunchypickle - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 12:29 PM EST (#249191) #

I keep thinking that if the Jays land Darvish they will really push to lock up Fielder and landing Darvish will increase their odds of getting him.(if I'm Fielder I would want to sign with a competitive team) Is this just wishful thinking because there was a lot of talk at the Winter Meetings about the Jays being a frontrunner to land Fielder before AA came out and started talking about parameters and payroll. AA said he wanted to go it slow but there are some good pieces available now and if they wait another year or so it might not be possible to land the types available this offseason. Is there any chance the Jays will have both Darvish and Fielder in Dunedin next year?

Jonny German - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 12:29 PM EST (#249192) #

Curious to know where BA would place Nestor Molina. The article does not mention him.

PeteMoss - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 12:37 PM EST (#249193) #

Reading the twitter feed of the writer... don't think he'd have been in the top 10 but was top 30:

"White Sox over hyping/justifying. Not front end guy. Back end is ceiling. Reliever is possibility."

"RHP Nestor Molina was in my #BlueJays Top 30 when I turned it in. Plus command of 88-93 FB. Solid secondary plays up. Back of rotation type."

http://twitter.com/#!/BAhighschool

bpoz - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 01:06 PM EST (#249195) #

Kevin Gray of NH loved N Molina.

I wonder if the commissioner will announce the value of the winning bid. I said NYY @ about $73mil.

Super Bluto - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 01:07 PM EST (#249196) #

I keep thinking that if the Jays land Darvish they will really push to lock up Fielder

I concur. Having both, plus something more solid off the bench than Mike McCoy (because someone, sometime is going to get hurt and miss significant games) and they could be very competitive for the next few years. And even if Darvish doesn't have the staying power and even if Fielder's production falls off, they would still give the fans a good shot at seeing playoff baseball which would make it easy to forgive them for lousy teams in 2016+

greenfrog - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 01:11 PM EST (#249197) #

More blahblah from Jim Bowden on twitter:

JimBowdenESPNxm JIM BOWDEN
Unconfirmed industry sources keep telling me B-Jays won Darvish bidding and bid more than Dice K....only commish office knows for sure
38 minutes ago

jgadfly - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 01:19 PM EST (#249199) #

Of Interest ... "The Jays replaced him ( Marco Paddy) with former Mets supervisor of Latin American operations Ismael Cruz." This is the first time I've seen this. Seems like another plus signing.

John Northey - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 01:23 PM EST (#249201) #

What I think will be most interesting is what happens to Felix Hernandez afterwards. I keep thinking AA has a ninja move about to be used on Seattle to sneak him out of there and over here, especially if Darvish isn't acquired. 3 years at 'reasonable' rates (sub-$20 mil iirc) while stuck on a team that should be in a deep rebuild right now (given the Angels & Rangers status). Especially if the Rangers win Darvish instead.

Lets hope AA has lots of holiday shopping and big gifts for all us blogging fans :)

jgadfly - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 01:23 PM EST (#249202) #

My apologies John ... I meant to post this in Gerry's BA Prospect item .

Geoff - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 01:27 PM EST (#249203) #

For further appetite-whetting, witness Jeff Passan calling the Jays an official big boy among the East beasts.

85bluejay - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 01:39 PM EST (#249208) #

Not big on Fielder if more than 5 years - if jays land Darvish, then adding Beltran, Wandy Rodriguez,experienced LHR and an 8th inning guy would satisfy me and allow us to keep our top prospects - Also, I still think the Jays are trying to relocate Kelly Johnson (limited market) so that they can acquire Gordon Beckham, a good low buy candidate whom with 4 years of control left can become a core guy.

greenfrog - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 01:42 PM EST (#249209) #

The M's could have a good starting rotation in 2013 or so: Felix/Pineda/Hultzen/Paxton with Walker developing on the fast track. But even if those prospects work out, the team looks to be in a bit of a bind for the short term. The problem, though, is that Hernandez is a superstar. Trading him basically tells their fans that the team isn't going to compete for at least 2-3 years - not the best ticket-selling strategy.

BlueJayWay - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 01:47 PM EST (#249211) #

Wilner tweets sources confirm to him Jays aren't in on Fielder, and never really seriously were.

Thomas - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 01:56 PM EST (#249212) #

I keep thinking AA has a ninja move about to be used on Seattle to sneak him out of there and over here....

Unless the first six words out of his mouth are "Take your choice of five prospects," Jack Z is hanging up the phone on him.

Blue in SK - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 02:09 PM EST (#249216) #

Via Rotoworld - Rangers are now frontrunners for Yu.

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/mlb/347107/rangers-might-have-won-rights-to-yu-darvish

Mike D - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 02:20 PM EST (#249218) #

Rangers are now frontrunners for Yu.

Quite the lemming-like response, no? Olney tweets that although most believe the Jays placed the highest bid, one unnamed executive said the smart money was on Texas. Arguably, the "most believe" component of that tweet contains more information than the "one unnamed executive" component. Sigh...

greenfrog - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 02:47 PM EST (#249225) #

I'm still guessing Rangers, though obviously I want the Jays to prevail.

92-93 - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 02:53 PM EST (#249226) #

Unless the first six words out of his mouth are "Take your choice of five prospects," Jack Z is hanging up the phone on him.

If somebody had told us last offseason that the price for Colby Rasmus was 5.5m, Rzepczynski, Stewart, and two relievers we would have laughed our asses off.

Roy Halladay + 6m brought the Jays 2 middle-to-back end Top 100 prospects (Drabek & Taylor) and a 3rd guy that scouts liked the upside but was out of the Top 100 (except maybe for Keith Law).

I think it's ridiculous to suggest the cost for Felix Hernandez would be Travis d'Arnaud, Anthony Gose, Jake Marisnick and 2 arms of your choice. There's no evidence that's what an ace making close to market value costs, and in fact there's quite a bit of evidence against this in the other direction.

Anders - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 03:01 PM EST (#249228) #

This whole thing is getting to be ridiculous. The Jays, Rangers and whoever else put in sealed bids. One of the numbers is the highest, and that team won. The only way you know who won is if you get the info from the commissioners office (and it really doesn't seem as if that's the case.) The only way you can know how much each team bid is if the commissioner's office or the specific team informed you.

The Jays have basically not leaked anything since AA has been in charge, and it doesn't seem like there's anything concrete out of Texas. I really don't get where all the "this team might have won" and "this team bid x (or more accurately, between $x and $x.) Where are these range estimates coming from? It's a fixed number, why would someone give you a range? Once the bids are in it's not like there is any incentive to lie about this.

I am just going to wait out 8-9 pm and hope for the best, I really can't take this anymore. At least for the Jays ones there were multiple reports from different sources, seemingly. This Rangers thing from Olney is basically "a GM I spoke to thinks the Rangers are going to win, based on whatever." He's upfront about that at least.

AAAAAAAARGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHAHHHHH

joeblow - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 03:04 PM EST (#249230) #

What a strange process this has been. There are so many parties involved, but each one only knows a small part of it. That's why the leaks do not add up to a consistent picture.

My doubts on the value of Yu have risen since looking at player stats in the Japanese baseball league. It really is not a strong league, I'm guessing somewhere between AA and AAA on the whole. That's why a few major league ready players can dominate. Maybe I'm just setting myself up for the disappointment if we lose the post.

Jonny German - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 03:05 PM EST (#249231) #

Hullaballoo
About Darvish Yu
Making you blue?

Thomas - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 03:09 PM EST (#249232) #

I think it's ridiculous to suggest the cost for Felix Hernandez would be Travis d'Arnaud, Anthony Gose, Jake Marisnick and 2 arms of your choice. There's no evidence that's what an ace making close to market value costs, and in fact there's quite a bit of evidence against this in the other direction.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. Since Felix isn't getting traded this offseason, we'll never know. However, to compare the situation Halladay was in - where he had one year left on his contract and had made it clear he was going to leave the Jays - to the Felix situation - where he has three years of team control and, FWIW, has made lots of noise about wanting to stay in Seattle past the length of his contract (which obviously may change), misses the point. Seattle could, and will, demand a lot more for him than Toronto could for Halladay. Perhaps both CFs wouldn't be involved, but if you think such a package wouldn't include D'Arnaud, Gose/Marisnick, and two of Norris, Nicolino, Hutchison and Syndergaard, I think you're mistaken.

92-93 - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 03:25 PM EST (#249233) #

The Phillies only gave up that package because they had a negotiating window to lock up the best pitcher in baseball to an under-market extension. They weren't trading for one year of Halladay; they were trading for one year of Halladay at 9m, a ridiculous bargain, and then 4 more at 20m per.

The price SEA paid for Erik Bedard after 2007 is what I'd use to compare to Felix Hernandez. Bedard was coming off a tremendous season in the AL East and had been a very solid P the first 4 seasons of his career. He brought BAL Jones, Tillman, and a couple of relievers in trade. Whatever extra value Felix has in talent (debatable), Bedard more than made up for with his contract status.

R Billie - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 03:45 PM EST (#249237) #

I don't understand why some people refer to one team or another as "frontrunners" in the posting process. They do realize that every team only gets one blind bid. There's no such thing as a front runner...you've either bid the most or you haven't.

I really hope they announce the winner tonight because this coverage and speculation is a waste of everyone's time and energy.

MatO - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 03:47 PM EST (#249238) #

Just a reminder for Bauxites to please stay away from windows (except for those on main floors) and sharp objects as we approach the announcement.

Anders - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 03:54 PM EST (#249239) #

Again, not that this is ever happening, but I think you are overselling the package a bit Thomas. Not that Hernandez isn't insanely valuable - he's been about the 5th best pitcher in baseball over the last three years per fWAR. It's moreso that he is essentially properly valued - he is making $58 million over the next three years, and for argument's sake say he is worth 18 WAR over that time (basically what he's been worth the last three years, which is 5th best in the Majors over that stretch.) I don't really hold much stock in the Fangraphs $/WAR, but that would basically make him worth about $70-80 million bucks, so you are capturing a fair amount of surplus value, but not a ton. There is additional value in that all the performance is consolidated into one player, but ultimately you are trading for a guy you are then paying him reasonably fairly. This makes sense if you're pushing an 86 win team up to a 91 win team (which may be the Jays scenario), and if you have a lot of money to spend (doesn't seem to be the Jays scenario.)

The downside is the value of the talent you are giving up, which, for argument's sake, lets say is d'Arnaud, Gose and Hutchison. That is a substantially better return than the Halladay trade - Taylor has fallen off and Gose rates better, and Gose and d'Arnaud both have 2 more years of track record, are 2 years closer to the majors, and each has improved. Hutchison rates a bit below Drabek but in the same ballpark. The value of what these three guys (let alone five) are going to be worth over what you're going to have to pay them in the combined 18 years you have them is going to be astronomical. This doesn't matter as much if you're the Yankees, but for the Jays, who clearly are operating under a budget of sorts, these are things you have to think about.

I think there's been a pretty established formula for what these trades are, and the Halladay deal is probably close to a high water mark for the selling team. It seems like teams are placing higher value on prospects as well. Felix Hernandez is a better pitcher than Mat Latos, and I would bet money on F-Her being the better pitcher over the next five years, but the Reds are going to pay Latos $20-25 million over the next four years to put up maybe 14-18 WAR (these are just quick and dirty.) I'd be surprised if Hernandez brought substantially more back than Latos given how much cheaper Latos is.

Spifficus - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 03:58 PM EST (#249240) #

I don't understand why some people refer to one team or another as "frontrunners" in the posting process.

Because everything in sports journalism needs to be a contest. The next step is saying the bid one because of heart or character... as opposed to the most $'s on the cocktail napkin.

John Northey - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 04:06 PM EST (#249241) #

I do find it odd that people feel Seattle isn't about to enter a serious rebuild. I mean, they are in a division with 2 powerhouses who will spend money, a team that used to contend on a budget, and soon a 5th team which will have a new owner determined to make a splash ASAP. Mix in 95 losses after a 101 loss season and not reaching 90+ wins since 2003 and you have a team that is primed for rebuild.

Now, if they feel they can do it in under 3 years or improve enough over 2012-2013-2014 to convince King Felix to stick around then keeping him makes lots of sense. But this is a team that blew over $90 million a year for the past 5 years straight and got an ugly team in return (peak of 88 wins, 3 losing years out of 5). Last year they had 1 hitter with a 100+ OPS+ over 400+ PA. One. Just 2 more over 100 with 110+ PA. Yikes. Their staff had a 99 ERA+ with a fair amount of talent mixed in there.

Trading Hernandez could let them clear out other killer contracts ($17 mil to Ichiro, $9 mil a year to Figgins who had a 39 OPS+ last year) while getting more young talent back that could help them in their next success cycle. Sticking with the status quo though will result in, at best, a 3rd place finish well out of the playoffs for the next few years unless a miracle happens.

sam - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 04:20 PM EST (#249243) #

If the Jays do not win the bidding for Darvish, I think we're due an apology from management. I understand that the expectation we'd acquire Darvish has largely been created by fans, but in not commenting at all on the process Jays management have been implicated at least in part in all this hoopla. I'm not asking for a press release, but if AA were to at least say, "you know I understand that fans have got excited about the prospect of having Darvish in Toronto, I'm sorry it didn't work out, we put in a bid that we felt was competitive and of value..." Something that at least acknowledges fans have invested time and energy refreshing mlbtraderumours every five minutes.

John Northey - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 04:30 PM EST (#249244) #

Y'know, I didn't notice before but Baseball-Reference has a page for Darvish already...
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker&id=darvis001yu-

They are missing his age 18/19 seasons but do have ages 20-23.

His Olympic results are at...
http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/da/yu-darubishu-1.html
7 IP, 4 earned runs, 10 SO, 5 walks. 0-1 record

He is 2 for 24 hitting so best he doesn't go to the NL :)

uglyone - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 04:53 PM EST (#249247) #

"If the Jays do not win the bidding for Darvish, I think we're due an apology from management. I understand that the expectation we'd acquire Darvish has largely been created by fans, but in not commenting at all on the process Jays management have been implicated at least in part in all this hoopla. I'm not asking for a press release, but if AA were to at least say, "you know I understand that fans have got excited about the prospect of having Darvish in Toronto, I'm sorry it didn't work out, we put in a bid that we felt was competitive and of value..." Something that at least acknowledges fans have invested time and energy refreshing mlbtraderumours every five minutes."

you're joking, right?

Spifficus - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 04:57 PM EST (#249248) #

I understand that the expectation we'd acquire Darvish has largely been created by fans, but in not commenting at all on the process Jays management have been implicated at least in part in all this hoopla.

But they're not supposed to comment on it, and have additionally generally resisted commenting on rumors. Oddly enough, if their bid doesn't win, I expect AA to say pretty much verbatim what you wrote. I doubt it'll be intended as an apology to the fans so much as a sincere reaction to the result. It's not about a small segment of fans obsessively checking the twitter feeds for Rosenthal et al, but an unsuccessful attempt to improve the team for the foreseeable future. Of course, over the course of the winter, there will be quite a few failures for every team (see the Rangers if this is reversed, who also lost their nominal ace to a chief rival in addition to Pujols). It's a blind auction, which leaves a lot of guesswork in AA's arithmetic.

PeteMoss - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 05:00 PM EST (#249249) #

Where did this posting system come from? It seems baffling that they'd go on blind bids.

greenfrog - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 05:01 PM EST (#249250) #

I'm going to take a "glass half full" perspective on this. If the Jays land Yu, great - break out the Sapporo. If not, well, at the going price, a Yu posting fee + contract will inevitably be a risky move that could massively fail to work out. And we still have one of the smartest GMs and most promising systems in the game.

sam - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 05:05 PM EST (#249254) #

Not really uglyone. I get there's no room for feelings or whatnot in this business, but fans as evidenced by comments on this site have got quite caught-up in this Darvish business and want to see this team acquire the fella. And to miss out on him could well be disappointing to a lot of fans, and considering how the bidding process has played out I don't think it's unreasonable for AA to acknowledge that by failing to acquire exclusive rights to negotiate with Darvish, AA might have let some fans down.

Spifficus - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 05:10 PM EST (#249255) #

The bidding process was over days ago, and the hysteria has built after that, after there was nothing within AA's control to do anything about it. It's the fan's choice to get worked up. I'm pretty eager, myself, but I'm not going to hold someone else accountable for something I choose to do, and they have no control over.

whiterasta80 - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 05:29 PM EST (#249256) #

I think you mean nothing AA he can do until after tonight (or if we win the posting, after negotiations). AA can easily say something when the process is over and he should.

Part of the reason people got caught up with Yu and Prince before him is because we can see a route to the postseason again. We expect the team to try now.

They did a smart thing by tempering expectations on Prince. Regardless of what the truth is it prevents them from being painted into a corner of having to overspend. They have done no such thing with Darvish and that is where expectations are coming from, if we dont get him expect all hell to break loose.

Fans are expecting SOMETHING! I wouldn't want to be AA/Rogers if we come out of this offseason without Prince, Yu, or Beltran (or equivalent).

Spifficus - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 05:41 PM EST (#249257) #

It really seems silly to be working towards an "I have a right to be mad if..." mentality (not talking about you, whiterasta80 or sam, individually, just more towards the negative bend the anticipation is taking in general) when the IF hasn't happened yet, and the details aren't known yet. I mean, if, say, the Yankees win with a $70M posting fee, I'll be thinking, "Huh, ok. So, anyway..."

sam - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 05:41 PM EST (#249258) #

See I think Beltran would be a step in the wrong direction. He blocks young talent and he's clearly on the downside of his career. Beltran reminds me of the Frank Thomas signing way too much. I just don't see why the Jays would go down that road again.

If the Jays fail to sign Darvish or Fielder, fine. Given what the Reds gave up for Latos, I'd prefer the Jays to not make that sort of trade for Gio. Having a go at Anthony Rizzo and making a free agent signing of Darren Oliver, Mike Gonzalez, or Arthur Rhodes I'd be OK with.

DaveB - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 05:41 PM EST (#249259) #

John, Darvish's complete year-by-year stats (through 2010) can be found at The Baseball Cube site. Just google Darvish Baseball Cube. At the bottom of the Darvish page are his league rankings in 14 different categories. The English version site of NPB can be found at http://www.npb.or.jp/eng/ ... there you will find a Stats link to league stats for the last four years, including boxscores and all individual club pitching and batting. Darvish's numbers also show up of course in the annual pitching leaders link. Darvish might be getting better as a hitter: he went 2-for-6 this year (the Pacific League uses a DH, the Central League does not) with a walk and no strikeouts. There are no defensive stats for NPB on that site, but he has been noted in scouting reports as being an excellent fielder. So yes, it's true: Darvish could in fact beat up both Godzilla and Mothra with one hand tied behind his back.

I've not found a site that includes NPB splits for home-road, lefty-righty, etc, or some of the more familiar sabremetriic numbers. Nor have I found any reference to home park splits, though it's been reported that Nippon-Ham plays in a very pitcher-friendly park, even by NPB standards: expansive foul-ball territory and a high outfield fence, for example.

ComebyDeanChance - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 05:47 PM EST (#249260) #

I don't understand why some people refer to one team or another as "frontrunners" in the posting process. They do realize that every team only gets one blind bid. There's no such thing as a front runner...you've either bid the most or you haven't. I really hope they announce the winner tonight because this coverage and speculation is a waste of everyone's time and energy.

Well put. What was particularly embarrassing was watching people attach significance to the empty speculation of others who had no information whatsoever to provide, and pretending that by 'adding up' empty speculation, one could divine 'front-runners' in a closed bid situation.

It seems as if some accept now that mlbtraderumours (which was completely off-base on the first two postings this year), and twitter rumours, represent some new 'truth'.

Reading the entrails of pigeons is high science compared to the internet embarrassment we've witnessed over the last several days.

DaveB - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 05:47 PM EST (#249261) #

I meant ballpark effects in that last sentence, not home park splits.

sam - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 05:48 PM EST (#249262) #

Spifficus, I think you're right. If the Yankees were to win or the Rangers for that matter with an obscene bid than that would be my reaction as well. I think the frustration would be justified if the Rangers were to win with a bid around the Matsuzaka bid and AA maybe doesn't comment or acknowledge that there was some expectations that the Jays could've won the bidding rights? I think that's reasonable? After the fact, I'd hope that AA at least acknowledge that fans have gotten excited about Darvish, but the price was more than the team was comfortable or valued Darvish at.

ComebyDeanChance - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 05:53 PM EST (#249263) #

I don't think it's unreasonable for AA to acknowledge that by failing to acquire exclusive rights to negotiate with Darvish, AA might have let some fans down.

I imagine he'll give a press conference in a hair suit to atone for letting down those fans who expected that Rogers would blow its brains out over a guy who has never pitched in North America, and thrives in a league where Alex Cabrera and Dee Brown are among the offensive leaders.

Indeed he may not even realize the great debt he owes to those people, and may even consider such a suggestion ridiculous and absurd.

Spifficus - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 06:07 PM EST (#249264) #

Acquiring Darvish isn't about giving the fans a warm fuzzy new toy. It's about trying to build a perennial contender, which will be the far better for the fans. Darvish is only one of a series of possible paths to try to get to that destination, and the only reason we're worked up over it is because it's immediately in front of us during a time when we'd prefer to be doing anything to avoid being in a mall. It's not about any one piece of the puzzle, but about how things are put together come spring training, and spring is still an unfortunately long, long, long time away.

Ducey - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 06:27 PM EST (#249265) #

If the Jays do not win the bidding for Darvish, I think we're due an apology from management. I understand that the expectation we'd acquire Darvish has largely been created by fans, but in not commenting at all on the process Jays management have been implicated at least in part in all this hoopla. I'm not asking for a press release, but if AA were to at least say, "you know I understand that fans have got excited about the prospect of having Darvish in Toronto, I'm sorry it didn't work out, we put in a bid that we felt was competitive and of value..." Something that at least acknowledges fans have invested time and energy refreshing mlbtraderumours every five minutes.

How about:

As you know the Blue Jays posted $41 million for the right to negatiate with Yu Darvish. It turns out that Texas beat us by $10 million dollars. We recognize that despite the myriad of issues in this world like hunger, war, disease, and poverty, that this posting process is the most important issue on the minds of the majortiy of people in Toronto and across our great Country. I understand that many people will have spend countless hours of needless worry on the topic. I understand that one fan, sam, refreshed mlbtraderumours every five minutes for a week, based on nothing but rumours that we were involved. As a result I have offered my resignation to Mr Beeston. He refused to take it. Instead, I have been advised to follow the lead of that Hall of Fame GM in Toronto, Mr Burke, not only will comment on any rumour but in fact create them. Further, we agreed to pay a portion of the posting fee to Mental Health programs, so that people like sam can get a life.

melondough - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 06:28 PM EST (#249266) #

Jon Morosi on fan590 in 10 minutes to talk Blue Jays, Yu Darvish, and Braun

uglyone - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 06:38 PM EST (#249267) #

"Not really uglyone. I get there's no room for feelings or whatnot in this business, but fans as evidenced by comments on this site have got quite caught-up in this Darvish business and want to see this team acquire the fella. And to miss out on him could well be disappointing to a lot of fans, and considering how the bidding process has played out I don't think it's unreasonable for AA to acknowledge that by failing to acquire exclusive rights to negotiate with Darvish, AA might have let some fans down."

maybe you can sue AA for the carpal tunnel syndrome you've developed from clicking refresh all day long?

sam - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 06:46 PM EST (#249269) #

Ducey, that was uncalled for. The mlbtraderumours part was in jest. I think Spifficus probably hit it on the head in an earlier post about holiday shopping. I simply want to see the Jays get better and Darvish certainly does that. Sure, I'd be disappointed if we lost, because it's a missed opportunity to make the Jays better. You seem legitimately offended that I'd suggest that AA apologize for how the process played out and that's fair. AA isn't accountable to us, and not commenting on rumours is a club policy. What has transpired in the media is not of AA's making and how us fans interpret rumours is not anything he can control. However, as I suggested, his open admission of him scouting Darvish and the club's policy may have some role in all this. After the fact, I don't see any reason why AA wouldn't comment on the Darvish situation and explain the club's thinking on their bid, similar to what the Jays did with Aroldis Chapman. If I recall correctly, there was an apologetic comment something to the effect that the club hadn't done enough work to be comfortable giving out that much money.

Ryan C - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 06:47 PM EST (#249270) #

fans as evidenced by comments on this site have got quite caught-up in this Darvish business and want to see this team acquire the fella. And to miss out on him could well be disappointing to a lot of fans, and considering how the bidding process has played out I don't think it's unreasonable for AA to acknowledge that by failing to acquire exclusive rights to negotiate with Darvish, AA might have let some fans down.

That's silly. Neither AA nor the Blue Jays are responsible for some fans "getting caught up" in the Darvish hype. If some people are letting their imaginations run away with them then that is their own business. AA is not responsible for letting down your imagination.

If the Jays get him, that's great. If not, life goes on. We'll know when we know, until then there's no point in getting worked up about it.

melondough - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 06:49 PM EST (#249271) #

Melondough come back.

Ducey you are killing me, you made me laugh almost right off my chair. It's o.k. I am alive and well. I had to search through your last few messages to get what you were referring to. I missed your post from yesterday because I was actually out (yup it's true left the house - bright light painful) and today I actually had to put some time into my business. But now I am back following with the rest of you. Thanks for your advice and your concerns!!!

sam - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 06:53 PM EST (#249272) #

What's with the hostility? Seriously. I've acknowledged that Jays management is not entirely culpable for what has transpired over the last couple days. I've used my words an unaggressive manner and suggested that it wouldn't be a bad idea for Jays management to comment on how the process has played out in a somewhat apologetic manner. I agree with Ryan C, if the Jays get him, great, if they don't it's not the end of the world, but it amounts to a lost opportunity.

uglyone - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 07:04 PM EST (#249274) #

"I've acknowledged that Jays management is not entirely culpable"

It's not that they're not entirely culpable.

It's that they're not culpable. At all.

Richard S.S. - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 07:06 PM EST (#249275) #

If we get Darvish, we sign him, and I cannot change my opinion here, A.A. is too good at his job not to do so.

If we are cheated out of Darvish, A.A. must acquire a top Pitcher immediately or face problems from the Fans and Interwebby going Nuts. Dealing with Oakland for Gio Gonzalez and Andrew Bailey works because we are strong in the areas of their needs. Gio`s another LHP to join Romero in a Romero, Morrow, Gonzalez Rotation (Or, Romero, Darvish, Gonzalez, Morrow Rotation that could be dominating). Andrew Bailey can pitch the 8th Inning ahead of Santos and can close when Santos can`t or when Santos has pitched too often.

christaylor - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 07:08 PM EST (#249276) #

Y'know while I'll be excited if the Jays land Darvish and will be interested in watching him pitch, the rumor that Garza could be a target in trade if the Jays lose out interested me more than any of the Darvish rumors. Unlike trade rumors or FA signings, the mechanics of the posting process turn me off.

While unexciting, I think the safe money is that Garza will be a better pitcher than Darvish over the next four years. Ditto for Gio Gonzalez. The great equalizer is that Darvish is just money and not pieces going the other way -- who cares if the risk of him flaming out in MLB and the AL East in particular is very real.

Ducey - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 07:10 PM EST (#249277) #

What's with the hostility? Seriously

Just joking man. Just take breath and reflect on the fact its at least a little bit funny that you are asking a GM to apologize for not commenting on rumours he cannot comment on (ie he doesn't even know if he won or lost yet) just for your peace of mind.

electric carrot - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 07:11 PM EST (#249278) #

Hey guys, this is really unnecessary. Sam's arguments are not as odd and tone deaf as you make them out to be. It's simple. If we don't get Darvish it's not unrealistic to ask the question how well did the Jays manage the expectations that were out there (rightly or wrongly.) And it's reasonable also to conclude -- not really that well -- and that a response to that might be appropriate.

melondough - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 07:17 PM EST (#249281) #

Ducey you are killing me

ooops meant to write Dewey not Ducey. Dewey....Ducey Geez!!

BTW DKnobler tweeting decision could still be 3 or 4 hours away. Another example of...."how do they know?"

Thomas - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 07:18 PM EST (#249282) #

It's not AA's job to manage expectations. He's not creating expectations, aside from those that naturally form when a player is posted to the major leagues in a structured blind bidding process. At this point, presumably all he knows that we don't is the precise amount of the bid that Toronto submitted.

If I spend the next two hours refreshing MLB rumour sites every 5 minutes, I'm doing that because I choose to. Nobody should apologize to me for the choice that I'm making because I'm passionate about baseball.

ComebyDeanChance - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 07:24 PM EST (#249283) #

"If we don't get Darvish it's not unrealistic to ask the question how well did the Jays manage the expectations that were out there (rightly or wrongly.)� And it's reasonable also to conclude -- not really that well"

Actually, they conducted themselves in exactly the sort of way they should conduct themselves. They breached no secrets, they did not contribute to rumours, they did not initiate discussion on matters which are by agreement secret. In short, they conducted themselves in an entirely appropriate and adult fashion and are not responsible for the childish hyper-ventilation of those who cannot either understand or appreciate appropriate conduct. It's hard to think of anything more ridiculous and childish than the suggestion that the club owes an apology to the self-professed aggrieved.

Richard S.S. - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 07:27 PM EST (#249284) #

I`ve see as much Video of Yu Darvish as I could over the last 3-4 months (and I can`t remember where I saw him anymore). The one thing that increases his Value is his control. He throws his pitch at the glove ... and the pitch moves and moves. Does this make him that valuable, yes, I think so. I just don`t know If A.A. bid enough.

CSHunt68 - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 07:29 PM EST (#249285) #

I agree with CbDC 100%. I've honestly never read so much nonsense from a usually reasonable board. Should the Jays not win the rights, I would expect and hope for ABSOLUTELY NO response from AA, exposing his thinking process for all the world to see.

Chuck - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 07:34 PM EST (#249286) #

If I don't get a GI Joe With Kung Fu Grip for Christmas, Santa is going to owe me an apology, er, an explanation as to why he didn't temper my expectations. Yes, I know that Santa is not due down my chimney until the the night of the 24th, and I'll know for sure when I wake up the morning of the 25th if the GI Joe With Kung Fu Grip is under my tree, but still. People are tweeting that I'm a frontrunner to get a GI Joe With Kung Fu Grip. People with no insight at all. And they're tweeting. How can I ignore those tweets? Any why isn't Santa saying anything to either confirm or deny the story. This lather I've worked myself into, it's Santa's fault, not mine. Santa, for the love of god, say something. You are to blame for this. Not me. You.

85bluejay - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 08:12 PM EST (#249287) #

Well Said ComebyDeanChance

Mick Doherty - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 08:15 PM EST (#249288) #

Doncha mean "Not me. Yu."?

bpoz - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 08:26 PM EST (#249289) #

What if they don't announce it tonight.

bpoz - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 08:29 PM EST (#249290) #

Climbing the wall.

UUUUUUUUUUU

greenfrog - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 08:29 PM EST (#249291) #

They're gonna announce it. I just hope they don't make me stay up past my bedtime...

melondough - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 08:52 PM EST (#249293) #

It's cruch time. Reminder of the guesses made shown below. First however I have listed the just released official vegas odds on the most likely correct guesses....

rapportsaddict: Jays $67.5M odds 5:2

hypobole: Jays $47.45M odds 5:2

Melondough: Cubs $56.99M odds 7:2

Greenfrog: Rangers $67.5M odds 3:1

dan gordan: Rangers $56.67M odds 3:1

rpriske: Rangers $53M odds 3:1

John Northey: Rangers $52M odds 3:1

Yankee guesses: odds range from 7:1 to 10:1

Blue Jays (6 bids):

MrPurple: $81,235,658

rapportsaddict: $67,500,001

hypobole: $47,450,000

CeeBee: $43,000,005

Mark: $38,120,001

Jonny German: $36,000,003

Yankees (5):

Ron: $101,000,000

Mylegacy: $81,250,249

bpoz: $73,000,123

Landomar: $71,111,112

Whiterasta80: $68,000,001

Rangers (4):

Greenfrog: $67,502,011

dan gordan: $56,666,666

rpriske: $53,025,025

John Northey: $52,000,025

Nationals (4):

Mike Forbes: $55,500,001

Gerry: $52,300,001

Kelekin: $46,100,000

85bluejay: $30,000,001

Mariners (3):

Sam: $68,000,000

blu-j: $55,000,010

DaveB: $50,000,001

Marlins (1):

Timpinder: $70,000,001

Cubs (1):

Melondough: $56,990,005

greenfrog - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 09:02 PM EST (#249294) #

So, my question is: *who* is going to announce the damn thing? MLB.com? One of the mainstream commentators (Bowden, Olney, Morosi, et al.)? Nippon Ham? ESPN? Drunk Jays Fans?

Mick Doherty - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 09:09 PM EST (#249295) #

Jamey Newberg's latest e-mail post to Ranger Nation just now (this is even better than whiterasta's verse above!), in its entirety:

You say Yu'll give me
A highway with no one on it
Treasure just to look upon it
All the riches in the night

You say Yu'll give me
Eyes in a moon of blindness
A river in a time of dryness
A harbor in the tempest

But all the promises we make
From the cradle to the grave
When all I want is Yu.

Make this stop. Make it end.
Yu: Complete me.

Mike Green - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 09:11 PM EST (#249296) #

Rob Ford will be making the announcement from a SUV on top of a ferris wheel at an undisclosed location. No elephants will be harmed during this circus.

Nick Holmes - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 09:14 PM EST (#249297) #

...Drunk Jays Fans?

My hope.
I'm betting the Jays at 53 million.

Chuck - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 09:15 PM EST (#249298) #

Except maybe Rob Ford.

blu-j - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 09:22 PM EST (#249299) #

The thing that is bugging me is the coverage on MLB.com reading, "Who has the top bid?" Ummm....you guys are the folks with the answer, right? They're reporting the SI.com rumor as well as other speculation, none of which makes much sense to me coming from the organization that is holding the sealed bid. Perhaps I'm just cranky about a process that feels convoluted and much longer than necessary....

melondough - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 09:25 PM EST (#249301) #

How can someone be reporting that the Jays officially won the bid and that they have a press conference scheduled when others have said nothing (in fact Morosi source says no presser scheduled). The guys name is Kevin Gray - a sports writer in New Hampsire. I can't see how he would know. Gonna have to ignore this for now. Anyhow if he is right it would be good to follow this guy in the future. Here is his twitter link.

https://twitter.com/#!/graymatter11

Dewey - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 09:30 PM EST (#249302) #

I�m relieved to hear you�re alive and well, melondough, and back at the keyboard. These past few days have been very trying for bauxites. What with apologies sought from AA; and Rob Ford on a ferris wheel; and insulting #2JB�s cat, in another thread--where will it all end?

I guess that�s what we�re waiting to hear, isn�t it?

Nick Holmes - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 09:32 PM EST (#249303) #

"Ummm....you guys are the folks with the answer, right?"

To be fair, most MLB bylines read something like: "[x] is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs."

'Til there's an official announcement it's nothing but hot air and puns.

Yu don't know what it's like,
Baby, Yu don't know what it's like..."

Kelekin - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 09:36 PM EST (#249304) #

The weird part about Kevin Gray saying it is that he doesn't usually do that type of writing. He isn't a gossip columnist.

blu-j - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 09:37 PM EST (#249305) #

You are of course correct, Nick. Nevertheless, it still bugs me for some reason on the main MLB.com site as opposed to one of the team pages. Again, I recognize it's news and they have to cover it with the same speculation other sites are reporting. Can't wait for something official to come down so I can actually focus on end-of-semester grading!

sam - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 09:38 PM EST (#249306) #

I think they're waiting till the end of the leafs game

greenfrog - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 09:38 PM EST (#249307) #

Maybe someone hijacked Kevin Gray's twitter account?

Nick Holmes - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 09:39 PM EST (#249308) #

"I think they're waiting till the end of the leafs game"

Rogers. heh.

greenfrog - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 09:45 PM EST (#249309) #

Retweeted on dkobler's twitter account:

JSoccerMagazine JSoccer Magazine
by DKnobler
Hearing that #NipponHam #Fighters will announce acceptance winning bid (but not team or amount?) for #Darvish within 30 min. here in Japan!
22 minutes ago

Kelekin - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 09:46 PM EST (#249310) #

Well, The Score and other places on twitter have been saying it too.

Nothing is official. If we win, I will be just as excited as everyone else, BUT, we have to keep in mind that there is no guarantee he signs a contract.

whiterasta80 - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:03 PM EST (#249311) #

Let me clarify myself. I was speaking as much for the fan base as myself when I made the comment about needing to see real commitment to improvement (beltran, yu, prince).

I do truly believe that anything short of a splash this offseason will be viewed much more harshly than it has in the past. The extra playoff spot eliminates excuses. It doesnt necessarily have to 140 million on Yu or 220 on Prince,it could be a big trade for example, but fans expect something.

Waiting until next year just pisses away a year of Bautista's prime and most fans know it.

sam - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:08 PM EST (#249312) #

Kevin Gray is really sticking to his guns (sources) despite the absolute silence on the interweb. This has Sal Fasano's moustache written all over it? Thing is full of surprises.

greenfrog - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:10 PM EST (#249314) #

It would be nice if Nippon-Ham would at least announce when the announcement will take place. I gotta sleep soon!

Spifficus - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:12 PM EST (#249315) #

Phht! Weak, greenfrog. You don't gotta... you choose to sleep. (says the insomniac).

melondough - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:13 PM EST (#249316) #

I don't get what Kevin Gray just tweeted "turn on mlb network and see what you learned from Gray". Anyone figure this out?

greenfrog - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:18 PM EST (#249317) #

So basically Nippon-Ham needs to make an announcement that they've decided to accept the high bid in the Darvish sweepstakes. It's complicated, I know...I assume they've been working on getting the wording of those few sentences just right for the last five days or so.

jgadfly - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:19 PM EST (#249318) #

Also being confirmed on Gray's twitter by someone named Tom Signore who I believe is a pitching coach with the Jays minor league org.

Spifficus - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:20 PM EST (#249319) #

Maybe the team translator was on vacation until today.

Ryan C - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:21 PM EST (#249320) #

I don't get what Kevin Gray just tweeted "turn on mlb network and see what you learned from Gray". Anyone figure this out?

i think he's just expecting mlb to confirm soon that what he said is correct. He is definitely sticking to his guns, he's posted about 5 times now in the past hour that his sources confirm Jays won the bid.

greenfrog - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:23 PM EST (#249321) #

How about plugging the Japanese equivalent to "we accept" into Google Translate, leaning into the microphone, and repeating those two words.

Spifficus - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:25 PM EST (#249322) #

It'd probably be much better when it's translated through three other intermediary languages first.

Spifficus - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:27 PM EST (#249323) #

Ooh, or maybe they could just look into the camera, smile, nod, and give a thumbs up.

greenfrog - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:29 PM EST (#249324) #

I am finding this whole thing a bit ham-handed.

grjas - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:30 PM EST (#249325) #

per the star online:
Expected at 9 p.m. ET, the winning bid for free agent Japanese pitcher Yu Darvish is now expected to be announced by 11 p.m. The Toronto Blue Jays and Texas Rangers are rumoured to be the front-runners in the chase for the Nippon Ham Fighters right-hander.I'm going to bed. The world will still be turning tomorrow, regardless

melondough - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:31 PM EST (#249326) #

Now this is getting even more interesting....
https://twitter.com/#!/globlair

Cynicalguy - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:32 PM EST (#249327) #

Anybody else sick of refreshing MLBtraderumors and constantly seeing Coco Crisp's name at the top of page?

sam - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:40 PM EST (#249328) #

Yes and I blame Alex Anthopoulos.

jgadfly - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:42 PM EST (#249329) #

"a lot of people are going to owe graymatter an apology" quoting Signore on his twitter account

Spifficus - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:43 PM EST (#249330) #

I fully expect John Mozeliak to apologize.

greenfrog - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:48 PM EST (#249331) #

Announcement expected at 8-9 pm ET...riiiiight.

greenfrog - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:50 PM EST (#249332) #

Question: does Nippon-Ham have until 5 pm Tues Japan time (which I assume will arrive in a few hours), or 5 pm Tues ET?

jgadfly - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 10:53 PM EST (#249333) #

also on Signore's twitter @tomdiash this from blawrie13 " fuel.....wrenched " Does this confirm Signore twitter is @tomdiash ? Why would a Jay MiL pitching coach have any inside info on bid or is that a silly question to go with the " silly season " ?

MatO - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 11:00 PM EST (#249335) #

I don't mean to stoke the fire but Canadian former major leaguer Aaron Guiel who played the last 5 years in Japan compared Darvish's stuff to Pedro Martinez on the FAN today.

greenfrog - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 11:06 PM EST (#249338) #

I think Nippon-Ham is going through an existential crisis. The GM has locked himself in his office and isn't responding. Can somebody call a counsellor?

Gerry - Monday, December 19 2011 @ 11:15 PM EST (#249339) #

Let the recriminations begin....bed time.

Spifficus - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 12:22 AM EST (#249340) #

I think even the site was disappointed at missing out on Darvish... but at least it got over it.

ayjackson - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 12:22 AM EST (#249341) #

Just....disappointed.

*sighs*

might stay up all night

Mike Forbes - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 12:25 AM EST (#249342) #

I can honestly say that I have never been so upset by something that has happened away the field. I may snap if I see any thread about this with "North Texas" in the headline...

BlueJayWay - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 12:26 AM EST (#249343) #

Welp. Disappointing. Mostly because the process was so protracted, and most sources had the Jays as the winners.

Otherwise it's not that big of a deal, imo. Darvish could have been a nice piece, but one player in baseball can only do so much. And Darvish is very much a question mark.

It would have been fun though. Jays would have been "cool" for awhile.

Mike D - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 12:30 AM EST (#249344) #

And now for the nearly-as-anticipated Plan B for the Jays: Do Absolutely Nothing.

Glevin - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 12:30 AM EST (#249345) #

A couple of thoughts. First, seems strange for the Rangers to do this deal. If you aren't willing to offer C.J. Wilson who you know excels in Texas (and to keep him away from the Angels) five years and say $80 million, why are you willing to spend $125 million or so on Darvish? Second, I think the Jays are facing the same decision as before. Bautista, easily the Jays' best player is 31 and most of the rest of the core is young. Do they try to trade prospects to compete in the next few years or do they try to wait for their young players to develop and risk a declining Bautista (or trade him).

ayjackson - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 12:32 AM EST (#249346) #

Maybe I`m just sour, but pro sports has to think long and hard about how it conducts itself in this `twitter` age (for lack of a better term).

Geoff - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 12:33 AM EST (#249347) #

The Jays were cool for awhile. The big underdogs; the sleeping giant; the unanimous favourites in the battle for the new shiny thing and perhaps more.

question is, now what do they do for an offseason encore after that dud?

Not signing a single free agent of note would be very uncool for all the kids who thought the Jays were cool. Do the Jays care if all the kids think they're cool?

jgadfly - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 12:33 AM EST (#249348) #

ahhgrr ... that's disappointing ... Maybe not as disappointing as being 1 out away from winning the World Series twice ... but who's counting . Just a point of clarification ... Bud knows that the Blue Jay bid was in US $, not Cdn $ , right ?

whiterasta80 - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 12:33 AM EST (#249349) #

Dont know how to interpret it. That bid is right at the level where we could have beat it but maybe shouldnt. (i.e. not 70 mil or 35 mil). I will reserve judgement for now but we are definitely further from competing now that the rangers improved.

ayjackson - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 12:34 AM EST (#249350) #

Glevin: I think Wilson turned down an extra $15m or so from the Rangers to sign in his hometown.

On your second point, I think AA is trying to improve the team to compete around Jbau`s prime, but to the extent that he is unsuccessful, you have to seriously consider trading Jbau in the next 12-18 months.

Geoff - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 12:36 AM EST (#249351) #

Maybe I`m just sour, but pro sports has to think long and hard about how it conducts itself in this `twitter` age (for lack of a better term).

I wonder if the Jays figured to sell any season tickets from this hype. And how much sales would have made this a positive. And how many returns will be requested before Christmas from sales based on a hope that was quashed.

whiterasta80 - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 12:36 AM EST (#249352) #

But they definitely should have nipped this in the bud if they didn't go over 50. Tomorrow will not be a fun day for AA and co.

ayjackson - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 12:38 AM EST (#249353) #

Elliot`s reporting the Jays bid $51.1m

It`s in the media, so I don`t believe it.

ayjackson - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 12:39 AM EST (#249354) #

No he isn`t. Sorry.

TamRa - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 12:41 AM EST (#249355) #

"Welp. Disappointing. Mostly because the process was so protracted, and most sources had the Jays as the winners.

Otherwise it's not that big of a deal, imo. Darvish could have been a nice piece, but one player in baseball can only do so much. And Darvish is very much a question mark.

It would have been fun though. Jays would have been "cool" for awhile."

+1

markham_jay - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 12:44 AM EST (#249356) #

I'm just happy he didn't end up with NY/Boston.

ayjackson - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 12:46 AM EST (#249357) #

Can we get someone completely uninspiring like John Danks for completely uninspiring prospects like Eric Thames, Deck McGuire, Hoss Jenkins?

That would be something.

85bluejay - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 12:58 AM EST (#249358) #

The Jays did absolutely nothing wrong and should not feel bad about anything - it's the fans & media who paid no attention to what AA has said and done - I hope this negative reaction doesn't push the club to make an ill advised trade (I doubt it will) - The jays have an exciting young core with much upside and I'm willing to wait for them to mature and the very talented prospects to arrive - AA should just keep doing what he has been doing, an outstanding job of building the talent base and if he can add more quality talent at a reasonable price, that's great but don't overpay.

I've advocated that the Jays should be listening to offers for Bautista - he's had 2 fantastic years so he's not a fluke but he's 31 and would really help a win now team (such as Atlanta)- trading Bautista would be a negative pr move but I think would greatly speed up the building process.

Anyways, patience AA and just keep adding upside talent to the organisation, ignore the hyperventilating fans - eventually the jays can have a sustained run of success

Magpie - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 01:08 AM EST (#249359) #

Can we get someone completely uninspiring like John Danks

Actually, I like John Danks a whole lot. He had two terrible months last season, which messed up his overall numbers. He still would have been the second best starter on the Blue Jays anyway. And from June through the end of the year he was just fine. He went 8-4, 3.69, which is very much of a piece with the three previous seasons (40-31, 3.61, ERA+ of 125.) He's a quality pitcher.

ayjackson - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 01:09 AM EST (#249360) #

Yeah, but he`s got one year on that contract - what do you want to pay him to extend it?

ayjackson - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 01:14 AM EST (#249362) #

And everything seems completely uninspiring right now. Might as well give me Brandon McCarthy and we can save some on prospects surrendered.

TamRa - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 01:48 AM EST (#249363) #

If we MUST add another starter, and we can't get Felix - i'd be more enthused about signing Edwin Jackson than about tossing a boatload of talent out to get Gio or Garza.

But I'm perfectly content with the in-house options myself.

TamRa - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 01:51 AM EST (#249364) #

"I've advocated that the Jays should be listening to offers for Bautista - he's had 2 fantastic years so he's not a fluke but he's 31 and would really help a win now team (such as Atlanta)- trading Bautista would be a negative pr move but I think would greatly speed up the building process."

I'm fine with this if the key phrase is "listening to offers" and it doesn't turn in to "pushing to trade"

Still, the offers ought include something like, say, Jason Heyward or some such.

It's tragic that the Marlins are not stupid enough to let their "win now" mentality convince them to trade Stanton for him...

Glevin - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 02:45 AM EST (#249367) #

"Actually, I like John Danks a whole lot. He had two terrible months last season, which messed up his overall numbers."

Agreed. Danks would be a great pickup. I think a trade for Danks and Konerko would automatically make Jays contenders and I think it is doable (especially given the trade history between the two teams) without giving up the entire farm system. Yes, it would make the Jays very righty-heavy, but I don't think that matters all that much if you have a good lineup.

"I'm fine with this if the key phrase is "listening to offers" and it doesn't turn in to "pushing to trade""

I agree but I think if the Jays made him available, he would fetch a hell of a lot (Heyward, Minor, Prado kind of thing) and if the Jays are not going to make a push for this year, I think they should make him available.

Thomas - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 06:27 AM EST (#249368) #

Add me to the chorus that would support picking up Danks for the right package.

The news about Darvish is disappointing, to say the least. I'm a bit surprised the winning bid wasn't higher.

The_Game - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 06:38 AM EST (#249369) #

Not signing a single free agent of note would be very uncool for all the kids who thought the Jays were cool. Do the Jays care if all the kids think they're cool?

Rogers hasn't had a major free agent signed in six years. The answer to that question is an obvious no. I'd still expect them to make any upgrades through trades.

Not getting Darvish is a mild disappointment due to the media reports over the last week, but there are many better ways to spend that much money than on an enormous risk like him.

ComebyDeanChance - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 07:17 AM EST (#249373) #

Rob Ford will be making the announcement from a SUV on top of a ferris wheel at an undisclosed location. No elephants will be harmed during this circus.

Bob Rae is leaving his photo-op at Attawapiskat to come here for a photo-op with the victims.

Jonny German - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 09:36 AM EST (#249394) #

Danks & Konerko sounds great to me. The normal lineup would be something like so:

R Escobar SS
L Johnson 2B
R Bautista RF
R Konerko 1B
L Rasmus CF
R Lawrie 3B
L Thames DH
R Arencibia C
L Snider LF

I guess that becomes a little righty-heavy if Snider stinks and Francisco or Davis gets regular time as a result. And/or if the team insists on playing Encarnacion ahead of Thames, despite the fact that Encarnacion has so firmly proven that he'll never be more than adequate as a DH.

Geoff - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 10:11 AM EST (#249400) #

Might it be worth a gamble on Kendry Morales? He's shown he has the talent; big question is only his health and how far he is from where he was, how close he can get and when and how long will he be in good health. OK, so that is more than one question.

Or perhaps wait out the year to see what he can do and look at him as an unrestricted free agent represented by Boras for 2013.

Gerry - Tuesday, December 20 2011 @ 01:17 PM EST (#249461) #

Congrats to John Northey for having the closest guess.