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According to various national reports (and at least one Nationals report), the Great Gio Gonzalez Sweepstakes has come to a close, with the A's lefty now residing in Washington, D.C.

The Athletics will receive a packakage headlined by RHP Brad Peacock and also including C Derek Norris, LHP Tommy Milone and RHP A.J. Cole. The deal is pending physicals.

So was this too much to give up for Gio, who in 2011 for the A's went 16-12 with a 3.12 ERA, with 197 strikeouts and 91 walks? And since we all seem to like playing this game, what would a comparable package from Toronto have looked like?

P.S. sorry no image with this story. I really would prefer a Nationals Gio Graphic!  :-) 

Too much for Gio? | 44 comments | Create New Account
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Glevin - Thursday, December 22 2011 @ 05:41 PM EST (#249670) #
Just looking over what they gave up again. Cole, Norris, Peacock, and Malone? Wow. That's four guys who project to be major leaguers. I like Gonzalez but I think two of these guys should have been enough. According to Sickles, that's a B+ prospect, a B/borderline B+ prospect, a B prospect, and a B- prospect. Baseball America ranks them 3,4, and 9 (with Malone I am sure not far off). For the Jays, that's Marisnick, Norris, Hutchison, and then another prospect who is in the 10-15 range. Or, off the BattersBox list, something like Hutchison, Gose, Hechavarria, and one Perez or Jiminez. Huge haul.
TamRa - Thursday, December 22 2011 @ 05:57 PM EST (#249671) #
the more these deals happen the more I think we need to re-evaluate our supposition we can simply go ut and trade for a big-time pitcher.

I think our big-time pitcher is going to have to come from our own system

sam - Thursday, December 22 2011 @ 06:28 PM EST (#249675) #
+1 TamRa
Geoff - Thursday, December 22 2011 @ 06:30 PM EST (#249676) #
The Jays will keep using their coupons and wait for their desired items to go on sale.
Mike Forbes - Thursday, December 22 2011 @ 06:43 PM EST (#249677) #
Great haul for the A's. I really like Peacock as a potential number two starter. He's my centerpiece in the deal.
jerkstore - Thursday, December 22 2011 @ 06:46 PM EST (#249679) #
It certainly makes it more appealing to give someone like edwin jackson a contract (4years 60M$?). The difference in production combined with one those prospects working out seems to outweigh the benefit of adding gio gonzalez.

As with most of these questions, it is a matter of scouting. If you think the best is yet to come for Gio, it very much changes the equation.

Marc Hulet - Thursday, December 22 2011 @ 07:05 PM EST (#249680) #
I'm not thrilled with the haul, to be honest. Milone is a No. 5 guy with a mid-80s fastball and plus command... Peacock may be a bullpen guy because he only has two reliable pitches, Norris is a bat-first catcher who has struggled a bit with the bat over the past two seasons in terms of hitting for average (and with skyhigh K rates). AJ Cole is the best of the bunch by a fair bit but he's in low-A ball.

Equivalent in Jays 'dollars' would be Justin Nicolino, AJ Jimenez, Deck McGuire, and... Toronto doesn't have a good comp for Milone... Chad Jenkins (would be a slightly better value).
Ryan Day - Thursday, December 22 2011 @ 07:05 PM EST (#249681) #
It's probably not too much, considering Gonzalez is very good and only turned 26 in September. With a little improvement, he could be one of the better players in baseball.

I'm not sure it even matters what the A's got for him. If any of the players actually turn out well, they'll likely just be traded in a couple years anyway; Gonzalez himself was part of their last going-out-of-business sale.
binnister - Thursday, December 22 2011 @ 07:23 PM EST (#249682) #

P.S. sorry no image with this story. I really would prefer a Nationals Gio Graphic!  :-) 


I just wanted to make sure that this truly groan-worthy comment got a moment of recognition.

Well done, Sir!

Richard S.S. - Thursday, December 22 2011 @ 08:13 PM EST (#249683) #

We need questions answered (accurately answered):

1) At SS, behind Adeiny Hechavarria: (a) Who's the next best brightest thing at Shortstop; (b) Who's the fastest mover / closest sure thing at Shortstop.   With Yunel Escobar under control for at least the next 4 year, we must know if we can trade Hechavarria, if needed.

2) At C, behind Travis d'Arnaud: (a) Who's the next best brightest thing at Catcher; (b) Who's the fastest mover / closest sure thing at Catcher.   With J.P. Arencibia under control for at least the next 5 years, we must know if we can trade d'Arnaud or Arencibia, if needed.

3) At CF, behing Anthony Gose: a) Who's the next best brightest thing at Center Field; (b) Who's the fastest mover / closest sure thing at Center Field.   With Colby Rasmus under control for at least the next 3 years, we must know if we can trade Gose, if needed.

4) At OF, because of the depth: a) Who's the next 3 best brightest things in the Outfield; (b) Who's the 3 fastest movers / closest sure things in the Outfield.   With Jose Bautista under control for at least the next 5 years, openings are limited.   We must know who and how many can be traded, if needed.

5) At SP, because of the depth: a) Who's the next 5 best brightest things as Starters; (b) Who's the 5 fastest movers / closest sure things as Starters.   With Ricky Romero, Brandon Morrow and probably Henderson Alvarez (if not traded) occupying three roster spots, and possible New Acquisition, Dustin McGowan, Brett Cecil and Kyle Drabek after the other two spots.    We must know who and how many can be traded, if needed.

When we know these answers, we'll know what A.A. can do.

ComebyDeanChance - Thursday, December 22 2011 @ 08:15 PM EST (#249684) #
Beltran to the Cards? Now there's a surprise.
Glevin - Thursday, December 22 2011 @ 08:29 PM EST (#249685) #
"Beltran to the Cards? Now there's a surprise."

Happy the Jays didn't get him. I don't think he really fits in with either the contend this year or (definitely) contend two years down the road. His WAR the last three years 1.0, 3.4, 1.9. He's 34 and incredibly injury prone.(can't imagine playing on turf would help that.) He's a good piece to a team already on the verge of contending(which everyone in the NL central is.) Unless the Jays sign Fielder or pull of some shockers of deals, I think contending will be out for 2012 which means they might as well see what they have in Snider/Thames and any other young guys they might want to try.
bpoz - Thursday, December 22 2011 @ 09:24 PM EST (#249686) #
Is there life in NYY? It has been too quiet there.
laketrout - Thursday, December 22 2011 @ 09:36 PM EST (#249688) #
Like this?
Richard S.S. - Thursday, December 22 2011 @ 11:14 PM EST (#249689) #
Cubs Planning "Complete And Total Rebuild"

Do you think A.A. sees anything of value in this.    I see a few things but nothing to get excited about. 

Landomar - Thursday, December 22 2011 @ 11:33 PM EST (#249693) #
I'd love to get Garza, but probably not for what the price would end up being.  Other than that, I don't see anything there that excites me.
Richard S.S. - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 01:43 AM EST (#249697) #
Matt Garza (3rd year Arb), plus Carlos Marmol (2 years, $7.0 & $9.8 MM), plus Carlos Zambrano (2 years $18.0 & $19.25MM - offer that $12.5 MM arby thing to get a 1st round pick), plus Alfonso Soriano and $30.0+ MM cash (to lessen the cost prospect-wise) would get Chicago what from Toronto?   Or give me, the best way to add a Draft Pick, the new way.
gabrielthursday - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 03:42 AM EST (#249698) #
Richard, I think the answer is negative.  Soriano minus thirty million is still going to cost $24m over three years, and would still be untradeable.  Zambrano has negative value as well, and Marmol is being paid close to his value.  Optimistically, you're getting $12m in surplus value from Garza and maybe $6m from Marmol, which doesn't cancel out the loss associated with taking Zambrano and Soriano off of the Cubs hands.  It would be an interesting deal to see occur, though.  I think Soriano still could contribute as part-time player starting against southpaws and fastball-dominant guys, and as a pinch-hitter, while Zambrano could still be a league-average starter.  I could see this making sense for a team like the Yankees in particular.
jgadfly - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 04:43 AM EST (#249699) #

            "We must know who and how many can be traded, if needed."    ... Richard S.S.

             I believe that, perhaps, that what we need is an understanding of what AA's program is .  My understanding/interpretation is that AA wants to be going forward with the core of the best young talent available . This is open to debate/correction .  You named  6 non-pitching young and talented players .  My perception is that of those six, the more talented players (higher ceilings) going forward are Hechavarria, d'Arnaud and Gose . My perception of the core going forward is that it also includes Brett Lawrie and possibly Travis Snider .  I would contend that  if Escobar, Arencibia and Rasmus are part of the core, then they will be in positions that they are not playing now ( Escobar 2ndbase, Arencibia 1stbase/DH, Rasmus RF/LF where they may be better internal upgrades and still maintain AA's criterion of above average abilities relative to their new positions )  I believe that the makeup of this core is not solidified but is in flux. I think that the trading deadline will be of crucial importance as to who moves forward. By then, the Jays will have their answers to the questions of evaluations. Can Escobar stay on SS ?  Which is the real Colby Rasmus , Version 2010 or Version 2011 ?  Can JPA's defense continue to improve ?  How real are d'Arnaud and Gose ?  Will Snider find his power swing and live up to his potential ?   And the elephant in the room question, is Bautista too old for this core group and when does diminishing value overtake perceived value ?  Also by August 1st,  the Jays will know how much high/low value they have in Lind, EE and Thames .  

            Then there are the ratings of the pitchers , present and projected .    The high end prep talent of the 2010-11 draft classes will be in full season play.  Their internal rankings will be firmed up .  How untouchable is the upper caste talent ?  Who will  move forward, who will be included as attachments in trades ?    How do the college guys shake out ?  Do McGuire, Jenkins, Hutchinson arrive in August or are they gone ?   Where are Cecil and Drabek ?  Can McGowan's shoulder/arm hold together ?  Tamra poses an onpoint question,  maybe the best talent available is not outside the system, but within ?        

            In closing, I don't believe we can know now but we should know by August 1st ...  patience Grasshopper ...     FWIW ... M2C


PS ... Now that I've said all that AA will probably announce the largest trade of the offseason this afternoon ...

Richard S.S. - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 08:48 AM EST (#249701) #
A.A. thought 2011 was the year of development that leads up to our first postseason attempt in 2012. Somewhere along the line, the Pitching Staff forgot to show up. Drabek regressed badly, Cecil had no gas, Reyes couldn't be consistent and Litsch was left behind. A.A. worked his usual magic and salvaged what he could.
Unless he can get the Bullpen help, Front-Line Starter, Big Bat he needs, all the 2012 season will be is 2011 redux.
Glevin - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 09:48 AM EST (#249702) #
"Unless he can get the Bullpen help, Front-Line Starter, Big Bat he needs, all the 2012 season will be is 2011 redux."

You are right that without those things, the Jays won't contend, but I don't think it will be the same as 2011. Every year, especially with a young team, you find out more about your players. Who are Colby Rasums and Travis Snider? What can guys like Lawrie and Alvarez do over a full season? Also, can D'arnaud, Hutchison, and Gose all make it up by the end of the year? Even if the Jays don't compete, it should be an interesting year because it is still building towards something. After suffering through decades of no real planning, that is a very nice change.
Lylemcr - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 09:55 AM EST (#249703) #

I am not a big Gio fan.  As a fantasy player he reminded me so much of AJ Burnett.  His Whip was always so bad, and what happens when he is not in the pitcher freindly stadium in Oakland. Even though I would like to have him on the Jays, I would never give up that much.

I really like the idea of getting Oswalt for a year (if he was interested in TO).  The issue the Jays have are they don't want to lock up a free agent for 4-5 years and have pitchers blocking prospects.  I like the idea of getting Oswalt for a year. He will have trade value if the Jays are not in it.


John Northey - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 10:34 AM EST (#249706) #
Richard, an interesting idea - clear out the deadwood and some quality in order to allow a full rebuild. The problem is I suspect Snider and/or Thames could outhit Soriano at this stage (last 3 years OPS+ of 84/114/104) thus making him useless to the Jays. Zambrano, on the other hand, is a very interesting one. Last year was his first sub-115 ERA+ since 2002. He had a 127 in 2010. He is entering his age 31 season so while past 30 he isn't grossly so and a recovery could occur. He burned every bridge possible the last few years thus the Cubs would do anything to get rid of him. Just 1 year left on his deal ($18 mil).

So, to get Garza I'd suspect AA would take on Zambrano as he could be an ace (should he decide it is time to prove himself again) and would only take up space for a year unless he comes in 1st or 2nd in Cy Young voting - in which case the Jays would gladly keep him around anyways. Send back some minimal value, unless the Cubs have some hot prospects they'd be willing to mix in for one of ours.

In the end though I suspect the Cubs will eat Zambrano's salary this year and keep him on the roster or the DL.
Richard S.S. - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 11:00 AM EST (#249707) #

...You are right that without those things, the Jays won't contend, but I don't think it will be the same as 2011...

We started 2011, knowing we had a good-ish offense, an improved Bullpen , promising young stud Starters (Romero, Morrow, Cecil, Drabek) and the knowledge A.A. would do something to upgrade somewhere.   What we got was a good offense (that disappeared sometimes),  a slightly disappointing Bullpen.

We are starting 2012, knowing we have a good offense, should have an improved Bullpen, but, will have questions in the Rotation.   Morrow: when does he 'get it', or is he A.J. Burnett with a little better control.  Cecil: it's all fine and good to really get in shape (duh, what happened in 2011), but if you've lost your stuff?   Do we get 2010 Cecil or 2011 Cecil back in 2012?   Drabek feared his fastball, didn't use it much, then lost any confidence he had in anything he had.   If he's not 110% mentally back, his stuff doesn't matter.

So you are right, it won't be the same as 2011, it might be worse.

melondough - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 11:13 AM EST (#249710) #

According to Jim Bowden on ESPN Insider, for Gio the Jays were "willing to part only with low-level prospects with a lot of risk". 

So who would this have included?

bpoz - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 11:26 AM EST (#249711) #
Richard SS I have to disagree with you using the word "knowing" our offense would be good in 2011 & 2012. I don't want any of us to get hung up in the word knowing but I knew that Lind & Hill would be great in 2010 (they were not) and I hoped Wells would be good. In 2011 I knew Bautista would be good and hoped for EE, Lind, Hill & Snider.

I knew the rotation would be good, wrong again.

For future years analysis & opinions, I don't like the offense to significantly depend on 1 player to qualify as good because he could have a bad year.
Richard S.S. - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 12:40 PM EST (#249718) #


In case of Problems: .   I know our offense is never great.   I know our offense is never very good.   I know our offense is always good, because that's were the money's spent.   With one exception, 2008 (great pitching, offense - not so good), Toronto's always had good offense.   I know the offense will be good; but about specific players - you must be joking.


James W - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 01:38 PM EST (#249722) #
The great thing about baseball is that nobody knows anything. You can't possibly predict (other than guessing) what will happen.
greenfrog - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 01:58 PM EST (#249724) #
With apologies to Chevrolet, I guess for NL hitters 2012 will be the year of "getting to know you...Gio".

I approve of AA's not packaging off a premium package for Gonzalez. I'm still annoyed about Darvish - I think he was one of the best moves the Jays could have made this off-season (I bet AA wanted him too, despite all of his spin the other day). Of course, that ship has long sailed. I would still try to pry Garza away from the Cubs, if he can be had for a reasonable return (which I doubt).
Mike Green - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 02:27 PM EST (#249727) #
Right.  The Jays are now on the other side of the Marcum/Lawrie trading chart.  My own view is that in the club's current position, they are better off to acquire a pitcher like Oswalt or Jackson through free agency and wait for one of the kids to emerge.
John Northey - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 03:12 PM EST (#249732) #
At this point it probably makes sense, if they can't get a true ace, to just sign some marginal ML pitcher to eat innings if we don't have a full 5 man ready to go staff in April. Kids will be ready by mid-season so why blow $10 mil a year on a guy when he'll be blocking kids at some point.

Romero/Morrow/Alvarez/McGowan/Cecil can watch the shop with Villanueva and Litsch ready to step in for injuries/extreme ineffectiveness until June or July by which time (hopefully) a kid or two is ready. Now, if a true ace (ala Hernandez) is available, great. But otherwise don't blow $5-10 mil on a stopgap that won't be any better than what we already have.
bpoz - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 05:55 PM EST (#249736) #
Actually Richard SS, I do look at specific players and then try to evaluate if the offense, defense, rotation, pen etc... is good or poor IMO.

Perhaps we/I should look at Runs Scored and say X is OK, X+100 is Good & X-100 is poor for comparing the various teams. OR a % difference by team to make the evaluation. So that is probably being done 4.5 Runs per game is OK, 5 is good & 4 is bad.
Some where between OK & good is what we want, ie 4.5-5 runs per game.
TamRa - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 07:28 PM EST (#249738) #
"At this point it probably makes sense, if they can't get a true ace, to just sign some marginal ML pitcher to eat innings if we don't have a full 5 man ready to go staff in April."

your second paragraph (which I agree with) seems to contradict this quote.

I do NOT want the jays to throw money at a marginal guy to "eat some innings"

I'd be okay with signing Rich harden, but that mainly because he'll either be very good, or he'll be hurt, and if he's hurt we have options to fill in.

But as for taking care of things in April, I'd run this out there:

Cecil v. Drabek

And know I'm already six options deep. if you have two problems here (say McGowan gets hurt again and Drabek isn't back to form) then, as you note, there Villianueva and Listch, and also Carreno and Perez (all of which I'd work as starters until at least the middle of ST) before you have to dip into the minors.

Now, admittedly I might fill out the Vegas rotations with, say, Chad Gaudin or Kyle Davies (since both were with the team late last year they have some familiarality) or some such just in case i have a need and the three options in the upper minors are stumbling, but I wouldn't go out and get, say, Paul Maholm or Jeff Francis just to hold a place.

Not remotely.

Looking again at your post, it seems to me you MUST have meant to say "it probably DOESN'T make sense" in the first paragraph, right?
TamRa - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 07:33 PM EST (#249739) #
to qualify:

I'm very happy if it's Oswalt, I consider him a top-of-the-rotation guy, not filler.

I'm pretty happy if it's Harden, for the same reason (though he's apparently made of glass- you get what you can out of him and don't overpay)

I can live with it if they sign Jackson or Kuroda although I don't really think it's necessary, the Jays will get solid work from the most likely and value for the money they spend if it's not a crazy contract.

Vazquez insists he's retiring and there's no reason he wouldn't go back to the Marlins if he changes hims ind.

finally, just as a wild-card flyer on a minor league deal, if they though Webb could come back i'd be ok with giving that a go.

I don't want any of the rest of the free agents to appear in a Jays uniform this year - there's no need.
TamRa - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 07:38 PM EST (#249740) #
"So who would this have included?"

4 or 5 out of...

Carlos Perez
Gus Pierre
Mitch Taylor
Griffin Murphy
Gabriel Cenas
Daniel Webb
Sanitago Nessy
KC Hobson

Richard S.S. - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 09:06 PM EST (#249741) #

Since the end of the season, A.A. has known what this Team needs: Bona Fide Closer, 2B, Late Innings Reliever, LOOGY, Front-line Starter, Big Bat, Bench pieces.  

86 days later (27 Sep. - 23 Dec.):  A.A.'s top acquisitions are: Luis Valbuena (Bench - 2B/SS/3B) for cash considerations; Jeff Mathis (Bench - no hit C) for Brad Mills (no longer part of future plans); Kelly Johnson (2B - accepted arbitration); Sergio Santos (CL, 1 year) for Nestor Molina (not that very high a prospect, shouldn't be that hard a decision); Ben Francisco (Bench - OF) for Frank Gailey (who? - low level/rated prospect).   Waiver claims I don't mention.

In 10 days time (Jan. 2): it will be exactly 6 weeks until Pitcher and Catchers report to Spring Training.   During this time, optimism abounds and no-one wants to trade any more, so the rest of the Free Agents start to sign.   It is my contention that A.A. is much too enamored with his prospects, and too fearful of making a Mistake to do a good enough job.   Six key pieces and a few minor pieces were needed.   Lucked into 1 key piece (KJ), signed 1 key piece and all the minor pieces; GRADE: C.

Ricky Romero: lock for the Rotation; Brandon Morrow: lock, by default, for the Rotation; Henderson Alvarez: lock, by default, for the Rotation; and two of what's left: Dustin McGowan (out of options); Brett Cecil (finally in shape - duh); Kyle Drabek (loss of confidence).   This, frankly, is just not good enough.

Sergio Santos (converted SS), Casey Janssen, Jesse Litsch and Carlos Villanueva are locks, by default, for the Bullpen with who??? filling 2, possibly 3 positions.   This is unfinished.

Mylegacy - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 09:39 PM EST (#249742) #
Tamra on the April rotation...

I see Romero, Morrow, Alvarez, Cecil and then McGowan. I put McGowan in the fifth spot to give him more off days to work him in a bit slower.

I would not be surprised to see Hutchison or McGuire FORCE Cecil to the bullpen (even as soon as) by the end of Spring Training. If one of them could this would be doubly good as as it would strengthen both the rotation and the bullpen.

I see no point in bringing in a rotation arm for an arm's sake.

On the core: When you see just how dynamic Lawrie is it almost makes guys like d'Arnaud, Hech and Gose pale in comparison. However, for the MOST PART of the next 6 to 10  years I see the following as being "core" players:

Gose in CF (a blend of speed, surprising power and breathtaking defense - just a tiny uptick in his OBP will see him being a star)

Bautista in RF (eventually at 1st or DH - but even as he ages I see an OB machine at WORSE and a still scary power source at best)

Lawrie at 3rd (a Roberto Alomar type of rare talent, production and elan. By the end of his time he'll turn out to be a cross of the best parts of Alomar and Delgado. A prodigious talent)

Hechavarria at SS (at his peak he'll be more than just a Gold Glove defensive player with otherworldly range, great awareness and a cannon arm - he'll be a 15 homer 260 hitter with, for his size, a surprising SLG - IF he gets on base at over 350 he'll be a true STAR)

Escobar at 2nd (forced here by Hechy he'll provide the right hand side of the middle with an excellent defensive and be a WONDERFUL offensive number 2 hitter who with Gose leading off will set so many bases for Bautista and Lawrie their heads will spin)

d'Arnaud at C (picture Arencibia IF he could get on base at an over 350 clip, throw out 40+% of base stealers, call a great game and receive like a Molina)

Marisnick in RF (after Bautista is either moved to 1st or DH - Marisnick MAY give us a Molitar Lite. He might (wait for it) be a full strength Molitar like offensive and defensive talent - he'll arrive for a look see in 2013, to stay in 2014)

As starting pitchers:

Romero (This guy is just a talented bull - a great team player and very nearly an elite player)

Morrow (More and better stuff than most any other pitcher in the game - when he learns that when holding base runners from stealing you don't need to give up actually trying to get the batter out he'll rise into the elite class)

Alvarez (At worse I see a wonderfully steady number 3 guy in a championship quality rotation)

Norris OR Syndergaard OR Sanchez (One of these guys {if not all three} are can't miss (OK - near can't miss) number 2 guys or better)

The bullpen:

Will have Santos as the closer - and he will be one of the premier closers in the game for the next 5+ years.

The rest of the pen will be wonderfully manned by 7 or 8 of the rest of our 20+ starting pitchers who are just not quite good enough to be starters on our championship level team.

Watching these guys - AND the additional  "core" pieces I know AA will be adding should make the next decade a truly Joyous Time to be a Jay's fan.

Reality check time: For this to work (us being able to KEEP our young stars as they get to their free agency years) we fans will need to get out and support the team at the gate so that Rogers upholds their $120 to $150 million pay roll promise. 

Richard S.S. - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 10:17 PM EST (#249743) #
Someone's been doing better drugs than are normally available.   Strange, I thought quality tipple was more to your liking.
melondough - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 10:59 PM EST (#249745) #
My my Mylegacy. And I thought I was an optimist. Love your enthusiasm (was this meant to have sarcasm tones?). When you start binging up names like Molitor all objectivity seemed completely lost. I am the biggest homer ever but I think I met my match.

I don't see Morrow being here as long as you do unless he breaks out this year. If he doesn't then maybe it's best he gets dealt or moved to the pen to make room for some of the up and comers.
John Northey - Friday, December 23 2011 @ 11:22 PM EST (#249747) #
Yeah, to me the rotation is either spend $20 mil on a true ace, sign an injured/slumping guy who has been an ace and could be again, or sign some AAAA guy to a minor league deal to be ready to step in if injuries/ineffectiveness occur and the kids aren't ready.

The AAAA guy should be a lock as you always need a few anyways. The ace/potential ace is the trick. If Seattle listens to the media and actually trades Michael Pineda I'd jump at the chance (over a K an inning, under 3 walks per 9, just entering age 23 season). Minnesota has a couple of interesting starters in Scott Baker (128 ERA+ last year, 7.2 K/9 lifetime 2.1 BB/9) and Francisco Liriano (sucked last year but was an ace once). Houston has a couple in Bud Norris (8.8 K/9 lifetime vs 3.9 BB/9 but just a 91 ERA+) and Wandy Rodriguez (7.7 and 3.3 lifetime with a 102 ERA+).

All these guys have potential issues (some more than others obviously) but if the scouts feel they know the issue and it is fixable then any of those guys have the talent to be front of the rotation types or at least very tradable mid-season should the opportunity arise.

Still, I'd lean towards a 'sure thing' (as pitchers never truly are). I see why AA has a stack of pro-scouts now though. Extra knowledge on these guys could make all the difference in a trade.
Richard S.S. - Saturday, December 24 2011 @ 10:47 PM EST (#249760) #

John Northey

TamRa's Site has some interesting material to peruse: .

bpoz - Monday, December 26 2011 @ 09:50 AM EST (#249780) #
Since this thread is not that long, i will put this here.

What do people think about luck? This could be a laugh, while not belittling peoples beliefs.

At an Italian stag, I played Craps (dice game). Using my belief in my powers of mind over matter I turned $20 into $180. So I had a streak going.After each throw I took out my $20 winnings and kept it. With a total of $200 I finally lost and then quit, pocketing $180. Actually I partnered up with a guy $10 each & split the $180. So I believe in that sort of thing and also believe in random streaks.

IMO from Sept 1,2011 LUCK dominated baseball.

TB may not have believed in luck and did not count on it because they played their Sept call ups which may/could have cost them or simply the Lady was not to be denied.
Mylegacy - Tuesday, December 27 2011 @ 12:40 AM EST (#249793) #
bpoz - go to a casino every day for a year and play for 12 hours each day using your mind over matter "method." Trust me - after you've sold the house to pay your gambling debts, hopefully at least someone in your family will talk to you. If the odds say 48% of the time x will happen - over time 48% of the time it happens. All else is just a discussion of what we baseball fans are so exited about - namely small sample sizes.
hypobole - Tuesday, December 27 2011 @ 02:06 AM EST (#249794) #
bpoz - here is a bit of advice
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