Batter's Box Interactive Magazine

We can use a new thread - and besides, let's marvel at this lineup!

Player            OPS+

Davis, lf          89
Gose, cf           42
Encarnacion, dh   147
Escobar, ss        69
Cooper, 1b        109
Sierra, rf        100
Johnson, 2b        87
Gomes, c           54
Hechevarria, 3b   -26

We haven't seen anything like this since the days of Reed Johnson, Cleanup Hitter. Look upon my works, ye mighty, and tremble.

Posted by Magpie on Saturday, August 11 2012 @ 11:06 AM EDT.

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Paul D - Saturday, August 11 2012 @ 11:42 AM EDT (#262019) #

Chris Woodward, first basemen, was scarier.

BlueJayWay - Saturday, August 11 2012 @ 11:47 AM EDT (#262020) #

Wake me up on October 4th.

stevieboy22 - Saturday, August 11 2012 @ 12:11 PM EDT (#262021) #

This is pretty close to being a AAAA superteam...

Magpie - Saturday, August 11 2012 @ 12:24 PM EDT (#262022) #

The average OPS+ for this crew is 74.5. Gulp.

Five regulars are out of the lineup - Arencibia, Lind, Lawrie, Bautista, Rasmus. That lineup would have an average OPS+ of 100.3. It's true that one of the replacements (David Cooper) is actually a good deal better than the man he's replacing (Adam Lind.) But the others - not so much.

CeeBee - Saturday, August 11 2012 @ 12:42 PM EDT (#262024) #

It seems God has had enough of the AL East being a powerhouse and the Jays and Sox are paying the price. Too bad the Jays got picked but there's always next year. Probably should have have gone for a full house and took down the Yankees, Rays and Orioles as well though.

Richard S.S. - Saturday, August 11 2012 @ 01:19 PM EDT (#262025) #

Rajai Davis will be back in 2013 (FA after). He's a game changer with his speed, but he'll never be more than a 4th Outfielder. Hitting and getting on-base consistently is his problem and unlikely to improve.

Anthony Gose is a game changer, who really struggles up here. I'd rather he kept his Rookie of the Year eligibility than see if he learns to hit up here, this season. I just don't think he's ready.

Edwin Encarnacion's emergence eliminates any major need for a Big Bat this Offseason. Other needs take precedence.

Yunel Escobar, in comparison to the other Short Stops, is having a decent year. I'd forgotten how bad some of the SS are.

David Cooper is getting his best opportunity at staying with the Club, and upping his trade value as well. (I don't know if I'd bring Adam Lind back this season, let alone keep him). Is Cooper with the Team next season?

Moises Sierra needs a much longer look, he just needs to hit to stay, he's got everything else. Unfortunately, The Team has decided Gose is the "next one".

Kelly Johnson will be the Best available Free Agent 2B this offseason, unless re-signed by A.A.

Yan Gomes must hit better if he's going to stay with the team, even with his versatility. To contend means to keep player on this Team's Bench, it should be required the player is capable of being a starter on at least 10 other MLB teams.

It is a very good thing Adeiny Hechavarria has a fourth option. It gives him time to work on his hitting, now that he knows what he needs to hit. If A.A. gets Good Value from him, he's traded in whatever package A.A. moves him in.

Bautista will return before August 31st, so one outfielder goes, probably the wrong one (September call-ups aside). J.P. Arencibia will return if only to get game action in before season end. I have no idea of what happens to Adam Lind. He should return, but maybe not before August 31st. Brett Lawrie should return before August 31st (another tough decision). September should give us some idea of where we are offensively (Morrow returns before August 31st) and the additional Pitching help shouldn't hurt.

finch - Saturday, August 11 2012 @ 01:52 PM EDT (#262026) #

if the jays keep rolling out this lineup (not by choice by necessity) the will be no-hit by the end of the year.

greenfrog - Saturday, August 11 2012 @ 02:13 PM EDT (#262027) #

Given the revised draft rules, I wonder whether we should be rooting for the Jays to win or lose at this point. There is a big advantage to finishing low in the overall standings. For example, as a result of finishing last overall in 2011, the Astros had over $8M to spend ($7.2M plus $844K) from their first two picks this year.

In contrast, finishing 15th overall gives you around $3M to spend from your first two slots.

In some ways, I would rather see the Jays lose big and put themselves in a better position to draft aggressively in 2013. Having a few million dollars more could be a big advantage, and I don't want to see the Jays let up in their efforts to stockpile talent (especially after this year's so-so showing on the farm). Frankly, after 20 years of mediocrity, I don't really care whether the Jays win 75, 80 or 85 games. I would just as soon see them win 65 games, amass a big draft budget, and look to win *and* continue to rebuild next year.

TamRa - Saturday, August 11 2012 @ 02:45 PM EDT (#262030) #

"I'd rather he kept his Rookie of the Year eligibility than see if he learns to hit up here, this season. I just don't think he's ready."

If he's not ready now, there's surpassingly little opportunity for him to get enough better to make the ROY award anything but a pipe dream.

"Kelly Johnson will be the Best available Free Agent 2B this offseason, unless re-signed by A.A."

Which, if true, is really really sad.

"Yan Gomes must hit better if he's going to stay with the team, even with his versatility. "

I disagree. It would be nice, of course, but role-players don't have that high an offensive threshold. To illustrate the point - Eric Chavez is the only player on the Yankees' bench about whom you could say that he could start for other teams - ANY other teams.

Richard S.S. - Saturday, August 11 2012 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#262033) #

With the present woeful standings Toronto's in 12th pick range, it's 2nd pick would be #49, and it's 3rd would be approximately #88. The 17h pick slot last year was worth $2,000,000.00, so the 12th is likely: $2,550,000.00. The 50th pick slot was worth $1,000,000.00, so the 49th is likely: $1,025,900.00. And, while the 81st pick slot was $620,000.00, the 88th is likely: $556,900.00. The main difference will be the $3,453,800.00 LESS Toronto will have to sign picks (now approximately $ 5.3 MM).

Magpie - Saturday, August 11 2012 @ 03:51 PM EDT (#262034) #

I disagree [that Gomes must hit better if he's going to stay with the team, even with his versatility]. It would be nice, of course, but role-players don't have that high an offensive threshold.

I agree completely. The threshold isn't as high, but it still exists. And if you hit .160 something, it doesn't matter how many positions you play.

Richard S.S. - Saturday, August 11 2012 @ 04:12 PM EDT (#262035) #

Well .240 with a .725 OPS wouldn't hurt.

Magpie - Saturday, August 11 2012 @ 04:55 PM EDT (#262036) #

.240 with a .725 OPS wouldn't hurt.

No kidding. At this point, .200 with a .600 OPS would be welcome.

rtcaino - Saturday, August 11 2012 @ 05:04 PM EDT (#262037) #

Wake me up on October 4th.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjNJmwwf7QA

greenfrog - Saturday, August 11 2012 @ 05:21 PM EDT (#262038) #

With the present woeful standings Toronto's in 12th pick range

The Jays are actually only 4 games "out" of 4th-worst overall. Last year the O's finished 4th-last and they had just under $7M to spend this year (I don't believe they had any supplemental picks). With the team the Jays are currently fielding, they could fall fast in the overall standings. The slot amounts climb steeply after that; the worst three teams have quite a bit more to spend.

Speaking of which, I wonder if Houston is regretting not choosing Buxton or Appel with this year's #1 overall pick. Correa has really struggled in his pro debut (admittedly in a small sample at a young age).

Richard S.S. - Saturday, August 11 2012 @ 09:33 PM EDT (#262039) #

Toronto is thus far getting the 12th pick in the 2013 draft, but too much can happen making this point moot. Toronto has 53 wins, with 11 Teams having less (-1 to -16) and 3 teams not up by much (+1 to +4). The return of Brandon Morrow cannot come too soon. The return of Jose Bautista cannot come too soon. Plus the fact that A.A. is unlikely to do anything of significance with the next trade deadline, this should give a good read on where he needs to improve this Team.

TamRa - Saturday, August 11 2012 @ 11:46 PM EDT (#262040) #

I agree completely. The threshold isn't as high, but it still exists. And if you hit .160 something, it doesn't matter how many positions you play.

True. a 4 for 30 drought (since he came back) will do that to you. If that's who he really is then that's not good enough. Probably need more than seven starts and a handful of pinch appearances before we decide that though.

Bid - Sunday, August 12 2012 @ 11:41 AM EDT (#262044) #

Brendan Kennedy in this morning's Star says that Escobar is likely to miss Sunday's game. Hechevaria to short...Visquel to third?

Oceanbound - Sunday, August 12 2012 @ 12:04 PM EDT (#262045) #

Nope. Escobar and Johnson sit. Hech SS, Gomes 3B, McCoy 2B, Mathis C.

From now till the end of the season, every day is guaranteed win day when you're playing the Jays.

smcs - Sunday, August 12 2012 @ 01:16 PM EDT (#262046) #

Fun fact: Gose, Hechavarria, Cooper, Sierra, Gomes and McCoy were 6/9ths of the 51s Opening Day lineup. They are all playing the same positions now as they did then.

The real question is would you trade Snider, d'Arnaud and Nanita for Davis, Mathis and Encarnacion, and Aaron Laffey for J.A. Happ? I think the 51s lineup was marginally better, to be honest.

Kasi - Sunday, August 12 2012 @ 02:06 PM EDT (#262048) #

Maybe the two Travis' will be better in the future, but right now there is no competition. EE is the best hitter on the team, and a top 25 hitter in the majors. Mathis is probably no worse than a rookie d'Arnaud would be and Davis/Snider is close to a wash, and Happ is a bit better than Laffey.

TamRa - Sunday, August 12 2012 @ 02:25 PM EDT (#262049) #

From now till the end of the season, every day is guaranteed win day when you're playing the Jays.

Except today?

LOL, baseball is nothing if not unpredictable.

Richard S.S. - Sunday, August 12 2012 @ 02:26 PM EDT (#262050) #

Doesn't Hechavarria look more like a deer in the headlights than a Baseball Player. I'm glad he's got a 4th option because he's got a lot of problems to work on. Right now he's not quite good enough to be here, and may never get good enough. This visit will drop him down on the prospect lists. How much playing time do you need to not be considered a Prospect?

Oceanbound - Sunday, August 12 2012 @ 02:51 PM EDT (#262051) #

Words actually spoken during a baseball game: "Rajai Davis has driven in five."

hypobole - Sunday, August 12 2012 @ 03:06 PM EDT (#262052) #

Third time in the past eight games Snider is not in the starting lineup. The Pirates are jerking him around already.

scottt - Sunday, August 12 2012 @ 03:33 PM EDT (#262053) #

They kinda won those 3 games that he didn't start in.

They need to win their division. It's going to be hard for those wild card teams to advance.

Magpie - Sunday, August 12 2012 @ 03:33 PM EDT (#262054) #

The Pirates are jerking him around already.

Actually, he's got a tight hamstring.

Magpie - Sunday, August 12 2012 @ 03:38 PM EDT (#262055) #

Snider's going to have to fight his way into that lineup anyway. They're not likely to sit Garrett Jones and Starling Marte's their own hot prospect, a guy who's younger than Snider and plays better defense. At least with McGehee gone, they can move Jones to first base which opens up a corner OF spot. Unless they want to play Gaby Sanchez at 1b.

Richard S.S. - Sunday, August 12 2012 @ 04:15 PM EDT (#262056) #

So the Blue Jays win an UGLY one, but a win none-the-less. Happ was running out of gas in the 6th? The zero walks and two home runs says he's close to being ready to go. He joins with Romero to give us two effective? pitchers? What happened to Lincoln? Seems like pitch selection was not at it's best. Delabar I can understand, his stuff will always be "hit me if you can" power. As far as I can tell Delabar's effective two out of every three games, considering this time around, he's learning on the fly.

China fan - Sunday, August 12 2012 @ 05:32 PM EDT (#262058) #

Not a single word from anyone about the stupendous over-the-wall catch by Rajai Davis today?

When Davis makes an offline throw or a base running error, Bauxites invariably call attention to it. Just out of fairness and balance, it might be worth also mentioning a play that contradicts the conventional narrative about Davis. He climbed the wall, timed his jump perfectly, and grabbed a ball that was far over the wall. One of the best defensive plays by any Blue Jay this year, surely.

CeeBee - Sunday, August 12 2012 @ 06:02 PM EDT (#262060) #

That and 5 RBI's.... not a bad game. Probably one of the best catches of the year by any player I think.

wdc - Sunday, August 12 2012 @ 06:03 PM EDT (#262061) #

You are absolutely right, China Fan. That catch was exceptional. His timing was perfect and he saved a home run.

Magpie - Sunday, August 12 2012 @ 08:18 PM EDT (#262064) #

That catch was exceptional.

Oh, indeed. He's still a godawful outfielder, but that was simply spectacular.

Original Ryan - Sunday, August 12 2012 @ 09:52 PM EDT (#262070) #

Had there ever been a catch to rob a player of a home run at Rogers Centre before Davis's? I can't recall one. There have been some nice catches against the wall, but I don't remember a player ever reaching over the wall to bring a ball back (although several players have tried to over the years).

Richard S.S. - Monday, August 13 2012 @ 11:55 AM EDT (#262080) #

Carter, 1991, ALCS - was injured on the play.

vw_fan17 - Monday, August 13 2012 @ 04:10 PM EDT (#262096) #

Ah, but here's where the trick of the question is revealed - in 1991, it was "Skydome", not "Rogers Center" :-)

Richard S.S. - Monday, August 13 2012 @ 04:17 PM EDT (#262097) #

...it was "Skydome", not "Rogers Center"

There`s a difference?

Mike Green - Monday, August 13 2012 @ 04:29 PM EDT (#262099) #

A Rose by any other name
would be called to the Hall of Fame

Original Ryan - Monday, August 13 2012 @ 04:53 PM EDT (#262102) #

The play at the wall that Carter was injured on in the 1991 ALCS wound up being a triple. He didn't actually make the catch.

James W - Monday, August 13 2012 @ 05:15 PM EDT (#262105) #

Mike Wilner seems confident that the catch was the first home run pulled back in the building's history. You may make of that what you will.

Oceanbound - Monday, August 13 2012 @ 05:50 PM EDT (#262106) #

Howarth said that only one other player had ever done it, Ken Griffey Jr.

vw_fan17 - Monday, August 13 2012 @ 07:39 PM EDT (#262113) #

Please note the :-). It was a (bad) joke.. Nothing more than that..

bpoz - Monday, August 13 2012 @ 07:49 PM EDT (#262114) #

I missed a lot of the broadcast, but did hear Wilner say that AA expects to compete in 2013. The reason being that AA believes if healthy the offense is good enough. AA also seems satisfied with the pen for 2013. This was in some kind of pre game talk to the media. So did AA really say this?

If true this is great.

bpoz - Monday, August 13 2012 @ 07:52 PM EDT (#262115) #

To me it was a good Joke. So who did Griffey rob?

hypobole - Monday, August 13 2012 @ 09:38 PM EDT (#262119) #

bpoz - copy and paste and you can listen to AA.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/590/2012/08/12/alex_anthopoulos_with_mike_wilner/

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