Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Blue Jays Report Card: Eighth Preliminary

Blue Jays Report Card: Eighth Preliminary

The end is near. It's part two of the Replacements. This installment covers the starting pitchers who were called into service after the season was underway.

And they were:

Drew Hutchison
Aaron Laffey
Brett Cecil
J.A. Happ

As always, I grade on the following curve:

A - Outstanding (You could be an MVP, and ought to be an All-Star)
B - Good (You too could be an All-Star)
C - Average (You're getting by, there are probably bigger problems)
D - Below Average (You passed. Big deal.)

E - Fail. (You don't belong at this level. Not at this moment anyway - not yet or not anymore)
F - Epic Fail (You need to look for a new line of work.)

Posted by Magpie on Monday, September 17 2012 @ 02:11 PM EDT.

Blue Jays Report Card: Eighth Preliminary | 51 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

Mike Green - Monday, September 17 2012 @ 02:33 PM EDT (#263512) #

The replacements did a little better than the regulars:

Drew Hutchison- C
Aaron Laffey- D+
Brett Cecil- D+
J.A. Happ- C+

greenfrog - Monday, September 17 2012 @ 02:50 PM EDT (#263514) #

I would give Hutch a B. He held his own at first, barely, but was really starting to find his groove when he got hurt (of course, it's possible that his dialling it up a notch in terms of velocity contributed to the injury).

CeeBee - Monday, September 17 2012 @ 02:58 PM EDT (#263515) #

Hutchison : C+
Laffey : C
Cecil : C-
Happ : B-

Mike Green - Monday, September 17 2012 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#263516) #

Chuck - Monday, September 17 2012 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#263517) #

This is a good time to note that Cecil's velocity seems to be up consistently since he moved to the pen. I expect him to be quite effective next year. It will help if he faces 35-50% LHBs instead of 25%.

In this day and age of 8-men bullpen, there's lots of room for loogies. There's no shame in having Bob McClure's career. Sure beats pumping gas. That said, I've always been glass half full when it comes to Cecil's future so I see McClure as his upside, not his concessionary Plan B.

China fan - Monday, September 17 2012 @ 04:35 PM EDT (#263518) #

Mike, if Santos recovers from his injury, who would you boot from the bullpen to make room for Cecil next year? Or are you assuming that Oliver retires and that Lyon and Frasor both depart?

Cecil has only had 5 innings as a reliever so far, so I'm retaining a bit of skepticism, and I wouldn't rank him ahead of Aaron Loup at this point. There may be a role for Cecil next year if Oliver retires and if Lyon and Frasor leave (or if one of them does) but otherwise I'm skeptical until we see Cecil proving himself in a reasonable sample size in a major-league bullpen.

Mike Green - Monday, September 17 2012 @ 04:51 PM EDT (#263519) #

The potential candidates for the 2013 bullpen include Santos, Janssen, Lincoln, Delabar, Litsch, Oliver, Perez, Loup and Cecil. Frasor and Lyon are free agents, and I do not expect them back.

Between recovery from injuries and possible new ones, there is probably room for Cecil (assuming that he is healthy). For that matter, there is probably room for Alvarez to spend half a season in the bullpen. That would be a good idea too.

Dave Till - Monday, September 17 2012 @ 04:57 PM EDT (#263520) #

Drew Hutchison: C+
It bears repeating: starting pitchers need to prove that they can do two things - command their stuff and handle a starter's workload without arm damage. Hutchison was well on his way to proving he could meet Condition 1 when he got tripped up by Condition 2.

Aaron Laffey: C-
This is what replacement level is: pitchers like Laffey are always freely available. They aren't great, but they're better than some of the alternatives. If your GM is starting someone worse than Laffey, there are three possibilities: (a) the pitcher is young, and is going through growing pains; (b) the pitcher is struggling through hopefully temporary problems (hello there, Mr. Romero); (c) the GM isn't very good at his job.

Brett Cecil: Incomplete
If he becomes a useful situational lefty, he will be third on the totem pole behind Oliver and Loup. To have a job in the 2013 bullpen, one of the pitchers above him will have to fall back.

J.A. Happ: C+
OK before he got injured. (In his report, Magpie could just repeat this for about 12 players this year.)

John Northey - Monday, September 17 2012 @ 05:06 PM EDT (#263521) #

Drew Hutchison: C+: 94 ERA+ is about what one should hope for out of a bottom of rotation starter, but his BB/9, K/9, HR/9 rates suggested better.

Aaron Laffey: D+: 4.85 ERA as starter, much better than expected but checking below it you see ratios that suggest that is as good as it gets.

Brett Cecil: E: 5.72 ERA thanks to 11 HR in 50 1/3 IP (135 OPS+ against). Just 5 IP in the pen so far but might be useful there.

J.A. Happ: C-: 4.59 ERA in 6 starts, but 39 K in 33 IP vs 12 walks. Very promising for 2013. If not injured he might have moved up to C+, under ideal conditions could be a B level pitcher.

Mike Green - Monday, September 17 2012 @ 05:29 PM EDT (#263522) #

Cecil's ERA is 5.34. It is hard to justify giving him a lower mark than Romero.

Mike Forbes - Monday, September 17 2012 @ 06:14 PM EDT (#263524) #

Looks like Yunel Escobar could be in some hot water over apparently writing "You're a F*****" in Spanish on his eye black Saturday.

jerjapan - Monday, September 17 2012 @ 06:15 PM EDT (#263525) #

The potential candidates for the 2013 bullpen include Santos, Janssen, Lincoln, Delabar, Litsch, Oliver, Perez, Loup and Cecil. Frasor and Lyon are free agents, and I do not expect them back.

I would assume Litsch gets non-tendered, and that Cecil, who is out of options, gets a bullpen audition before Loup, who can be the first guy called up in case of injury. He's been good, but only 25 IP thus far.

Wasn't part of the justification of the Happ deal that Lyon could be more easily signed if things went well for him in toronto? He's been outstanding as a Jay.

Richard S.S. - Monday, September 17 2012 @ 06:38 PM EDT (#263527) #

Drew Hutchison looked like he was figuring it out, before he got hurt. I think it was a good showing by someone with such limited time at New Hampshire, but too small a sample to project long term status for him. It's 2014 before he's as good as he gets and past 2015 before he's no longer inning limited.

Aaron Laffey was a surprise, as he's more than AAAA caliber, but not more than bottom of the Rotation filler. Is it possible he could be a long man in the Bullpen?

Brett Cecil still isn't as good as he's supposed to be. How did he get so bad so soon? If in the Bullpen, he gets a 91-92 fastball back, keep him. If not, put him in AAA.

J.A. Happ looks like a decent 4/5 Starter. I wasn't disappointed with this trade, it's better if Lyon re-signs. I think it's possible he gets better, nothing too big, just better.

greenfrog - Monday, September 17 2012 @ 07:15 PM EDT (#263528) #

Yunel is innocent until proven guilty, but someone (whether it was Yunel or a teammate) is an idiot - and this is not going to go over well with MLB (nor should it). IMO the club should make an unequivocal statement calling out the offender / offending conduct, and do it sooner rather than later.

John Northey - Monday, September 17 2012 @ 10:10 PM EDT (#263531) #

Not just Yunel should be in trouble. The other Jays, coaches and players, plus the other teams catcher and the home plate umpire would've seen it for certain. Not to mention the media who goes into the locker room most likely as well. None of them said a word.

Homophobia is very alive and strong in clubhouses. Ideally (for Escobar) it would've been something that someone did to him and he steps up and becomes active in the gay community to help fight homophobia as a way to show it isn't his view. Sadly I fear this will get very ugly instead.

krose - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 10:42 AM EDT (#263534) #

Agreed John. There is the possibility that the message was directed at someone in particular. If that's the case, this incident will be more than an indiscretion.

eldarion - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 11:42 AM EDT (#263536) #

Yunel's actions are quite probably the most transparent and idiotic way to request a trade imaginable. Wouldn't it have been preferable to have a discreet conversation in the off-season?

MatO - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 12:21 PM EDT (#263537) #

Well, it was in Spanish which would let non-Spanish speakers off the hook.

Mike Green - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 12:22 PM EDT (#263538) #

The club ought to take this opportunity to lead. Fly rainbow flags in front of the RC, do It Gets Better videos, whatever. I miss having Carlos Delgado on the club at times like this.

On a completely different note, the Sep 19 birthday team is gathering steam and getting ready to take on all comers. Hall of Famers Joe Morgan and Duke Snider anchor the offence with John Jaso and Joe Ferguson catching, Stuffy McInnes, Nick Johnson and Nick Etten handling first base and DH, Ryan Roberts and third and Pedro Munoz in the outfield with Snider. The weak points in the lineup are shortstop Lefty Marr (who wasn't a bad hitter for a couple of years) and outfielder Hersh Martin who had 3 serviceable years. The rotation includes Gio Gonzalez, Chris Short, Sadie McMahon, Scott Baker and Jim Abbott, with Randy Myers, Bob Turley and Lenny DiNardo in the pen.

hypobole - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 12:54 PM EDT (#263539) #

There is a rather telling photo of Escobar at ESPN pointing to his eyeblack while seemingly looking at someone. My guess is that he knew full well what he was doing and it was directed at a member of the Red Sox. A really ugly incident in an ugly season.

John Northey - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 01:04 PM EDT (#263540) #

The only good thing would be if whoever it was pointed at came out so we'd have the first openly gay ML baseball player who is active. I know an inactive player or two has come out of the closet, but if an active player did it would make a major difference. Doubt it'll happen, but one can hope.

greenfrog - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 04:15 PM EDT (#263550) #

A three-game suspension seems pretty paltry.

Hodgie - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 04:54 PM EDT (#263551) #

In some ways it seems pretty harsh considering Delmon Young was suspended 7 games for committing a hate crime and no-one gets suspended for getting arrested for DUI, something that actually puts people lives at risk.

Bid - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 04:59 PM EDT (#263552) #

Keeping him off the field in Yankee Stadium seems a good idea to me...earlier this afternoon I predicted a three-game team suspension.

Ugly all around...the comments (including Hayhurst's on Sportsnet) about teammates shirking responsibility hit home; particularly the senior Latin guys: Bautista, Encarnacion, and especially Omar.

John Northey - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 05:19 PM EDT (#263553) #

Seems the further south you go the worst it gets with homophobia and the like. No idea why offhand, but it seems Canada was first to legalize gay marriage, the northern and western US states were next but as you go south the resistance gets stronger and stronger then you hit Central America/Caribbean countries where outright violence against gays is viewed as acceptable (not everywhere, but I have read scary stories in the media from time to time).

I suspect the players from that part of the world saw nothing wrong, thus my earlier comment about how someone else should've been in trouble as the coaches, players, manager, and members of the opposing team saw it and said nothing as would have some media members. I'm sure they've all heard worse in the locker room thus 'tune it out' however that is much like how they would cover up players sleeping around in the past, or boozing it up pre-game, or using greenies or later steroids.

In sports everything is A-OK until someone puts it into the media (much easier now than in the past) then watch out as the one person who was caught gets slaughtered. As I said before, the best result would be someone coming out of the closet who is a current ML'er. Sadly, I doubt any player is willing to take that kind of risk.

snowman - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 06:12 PM EDT (#263555) #

If you're going to say freedom of speech doesn't extend to speech that is offensive to others, then why are only some groups immune to insult? Should it not be impermissible to insult or offend any group? How about gay pride parades where participants are dressed up as the pope or as nuns?

Magpie - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 06:47 PM EDT (#263557) #

How about gay pride parades where participants are dressed up as the pope

You've heard what popes have had to say about gay people?

ayjackson - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 06:51 PM EDT (#263558) #

Seems the further south you go the worst it gets with homophobia and the like.

Probably more to do with poverty and education rather than proximity to the equator. He's brought up in a different world than me, and from there he was placed in a baseball clubhouse, I've been silent on this to date, but I'll probably pity him more than crucify him.

Magpie - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 07:18 PM EDT (#263559) #

If you're going to say freedom of speech doesn't extend to speech that is offensive to others

I wouldn't say that. I think I do have the right to say offensive things. But I think I'm an idiot if I don't expect people to be offended by them, and if they don't proceed to say (and do) things that are offensive to me. It's something I've sanctioned by my own actions. I'm willing to go there - I'm willing to say offensive things. But I don't expect there won't be consequences.

Dewey - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 07:24 PM EDT (#263560) #

Few things are more frightening than the fearsome powers of Political Correctness. They�re terrifying.

Escobar is a foolish young man, who is not often called upon to think about much of anything other than his performance on the ball field. He probably had no clue that this would happen. And now that it has happened he still has no clue. Sort of like Mayor Ford. He said he wrote the words on the patches about 10 minutes before going on the field. He�s written things on them before, so few probably even saw them, and nobody paid any attention. I can�t blame an ump, or his team-mates, coaches, et al, for not having been being careful to read and censor Yunel�s message of the day. I agree with ayj. I wish there were a Mark Twain, an Ambrose Bierce, or even a George Carlin around to make evident the nonsensical tyranny of all the right-thinking people who are making over much of this. (This 'story' was the second item on CBC radio news tonight. You know that's a bad sign. The NHL strike didn't even get a look-in!)

hypobole - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 08:52 PM EDT (#263565) #

"I'm curious, is there anybody here who is more concerned about the infringement of freedom of speech than with offending gays? Is it safe to say there is no such thing as freedom of speech in North America anymore (or are you just allowed to say things the liberal/left agree with)?"

I don't think it was the liberal/left who wrote sedition laws. But more to this point, if I'm a salesman and I go to a clients company for a meeting wearing a "you are gay" sticker, would it be wrong for my employer to take action? Yunel did this in public, at his workplace.

greenfrog - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 08:53 PM EDT (#263566) #

Few things are more frightening than the fearsome powers of Political Correctness.

Political correctness writ large can certainly be incomprehensibly frightening (Maoism, Stalinism, to take a couple of recent examples). But bigotry can be equally frightening. For some people it's no joke:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard

ComebyDeanChance - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 09:21 PM EDT (#263568) #

I'm curious, is there anybody here who is more concerned about the infringement of freedom of speech than with offending gays? Is it safe to say there is no such thing as freedom of speech in North America anymore (or are you just allowed to say things the liberal/left agree with)?

There is an apparently common misperception that the First Amendment, or Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms, provides a generalized protection of expression and insulates one from the civil consequences of expression. I have a memory (now that's unreliable) that this issue arose months ago in respect of Ozzie Guillen's discipline by the Florida Marlins after his expressions of support for Fidel Castro.

The First Amendment insulates one from prosecution by the state. It does not insulate an employee in an employment relationship from actions which an employer may take for damaging his employer's reputation. The same holds true in respect of the Charter.

Thus when Mike Wilner gets on Rogers' website and criticizes Rogers' PR staff for intervening in his conduct at a Cito Gaston press conference; when Ozzie Guillen, in Miami, extolls the virtues of Fidel Castro to the Miami Cuban refugee community, and; when Yunel Escobar puts the most offensive (considering the etymology) of insults on his face while wearing a Blue Jay uniform - they each expose themselves to actions by their employer. The state had nothing to do with the punishment of any of the three. The First Amendment is of no moment and neither is the Canadian Charter. Indeed, when we were discussing the Guillen situation a hypothetical situation eerily like the Escobar one, may well have been proposed as an example.

I thought the punishment roughly fit the offence. What's left of course, is for the sneering class to trot their stuff by condemning some 29 year old, not very bright, kid.

ComebyDeanChance - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 09:26 PM EDT (#263569) #

Oh for godsakes greenfrog, the comparison of this event to what happened to Mathew Shepard is outrageous.

Paul D - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#263570) #

Given that there was no infringement on Freedom of Speech here, no, I'm not worried, at all.

greenfrog - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 10:02 PM EDT (#263571) #

Both bigotry and political correctness can range from mild to extreme - that was my point (in response to Dewey's implying that all political correctness is "fearsome" and "terrifying"). Of course the extreme versions of bigotry are far more serious, but that doesn't mean you turn a blind eye to the lesser forms. I'm not talking about ideological preening or getting worked up into a lather about some baseball player getting called out. I'm talking about your kid or nephew getting bullied or beaten up or menaced (or worse) for no reason other than that he's gay. Happens every day, all around the world.

scottt - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 10:10 PM EDT (#263572) #

Google Translate does not take cultural differences into account
It's worth noting that nobody on the field reacted to it.

In any case, that's 3 games with Hech at his natural position.

Dewey - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 10:14 PM EDT (#263573) #

Both bigotry and political correctness can range from mild to extreme - that was my point (in response to Dewey's implying that all political correctness is "fearsome" and "terrifying").

Uh oh. I put capital letters on Political Correctness to suggest that I meant PC on its hind legs, so to speak; PC in high dudgeon, etc., as I�d seen some examples of that today. *That* kind of PC is frightening -- the self-righteous sort.

Secondly, Twain, Bierce and Carlin were satirists, not merely stand-up comics (though Carlin was the latter as well): they had a strong moral vision. Nobody here has said the matter is �a joke�. And nobody is condoning bigotry.

Mike Green - Tuesday, September 18 2012 @ 11:43 PM EDT (#263574) #

PC has nothing to do with it. Escobar did something stupid. It wouldn't really have mattered much for punishment purposes if he had written in small letters "You are a moron" rather than a homophobic slur. There is the larger issue that there are no out major league ball players, as there are out lawyers, journalists, doctors, politicians, because the environment would be very harsh for a ballplayer who came out.

The ballclub could use the incident as an opportunity to lead. Have a delegation of Blue Jays marching in the Pride parade as an ally. George Carlin would, I guarantee you, have approved of that.

John Northey - Wednesday, September 19 2012 @ 12:09 AM EDT (#263575) #

I think it is extremely relevant to look at the Matthew Shepard case and this together. If someone goes around saying 'screw off white boy' I have no real fear except in extreme situations (say, if I'm walking around in a known dangerous area in which case just being noticed puts you at risk). If someone goes up to someone who is gay and says 'screw off gay boy' there is an element of fear that would automatically be added due to the very real fear that it could be followed up with violence no matter where the person is (with a handful of exceptions).

If you are a gay athlete this is another example of the intimidation you'd face daily. Whenever a MLB player comes out as gay you can bet there will be a massive fear factor for him. There are many extremists who _will_ threaten his life and teammates who would not step up to protect him or even to support him. To think otherwise is to ignore reality. Escobar is not a risk to go out and kill someone, but the attitude he showed is an example of the fear and would intimidate others. The fact no other player or coach or umpire thought twice about it (as far as we know) speaks volumes as does Dirk Hayhurst's tweets about how it is part of the locker room culture (not to excuse but to explain).

50 years ago no one thought twice if someone called a black person by the n word. Now it is viewed worse than swear words. Why? Because it was a term used to dehumanize. Same for what Escobar did - and once someone is no longer viewed as human then anything can and will be done against them. This isn't political correctness, this is watching for smoke before a fire starts.

TamRa - Wednesday, September 19 2012 @ 12:53 AM EDT (#263576) #

I'll pass on repeating the already posted excellent answers to the "freedom of speech" tangent.

I'll also accept as a given that this is basically a rather stupid and immature outworking of the man's native culture...

(my beloved late grandfather was born in 1910. It was not at all unusual for me to hear him refer to a black man in the 1980's and '90s as a "ni**er" without malicious intent. he was a very good and faithful man but he was a product of his times and one of those southern men who was simply too old to be reformed out of that habit of thought. A lot of people have difficulty maturing out of the culture they were immersed in as a child. not to excuse it but to recognize)

...rather than malicious intent.

My observation, though, is that it's a mistake to concentrate on outward behavior without reforming inward assumptions. the REASON the "f word" is used like this is because - in that "locker room culture" (which goes well beyond the locker room) - those guys understand intuitively that to be called that is to be insulted.

Because to be gay is a BAD thing, making you lesser than "real" men.

otherwise, there's no insult and there's no point in using the word.

It's THAT mindset that needs to change but that is much much harder to change than the ability to control the words that actually pass your lips in public.
Being possesed of self-control in public, but still having the mindset which leads to such jokes or whatever among like-minded individuals in the locker room or wherever isn't really that much progress.

So like Alex said, education yes. but ultimately people's HEARTS have to change. Which is, ya know, kind of the age-old need of the human race.

Dave Till - Wednesday, September 19 2012 @ 07:47 AM EDT (#263580) #

Since this seems to be the Escobar thread:

- Suspending Escobar for longer than three games would have implied that Escobar was the problem, and would only have been warranted if Escobar's attitude and behaviour was significantly different from that of other major league players. My guess is that it is not.

- It is impossible for me, as a middle-aged white man, to accurately determine what is normal use of the eyeblack words in Escobar's culture. I've seen conflicting reports - some writers say that this is a serious slur, and others say that people say this sort of thing all the time in Latin America and that it's no big deal. (Some of the latter are Escobar's teammates, who may be sticking up for him and thus minimizing the seriousness of the problem.)

- Alex Anthopoulos handled the situation as about as well as it could be handled.

- There's no real precedent for Escobar's situation, so there's no historical reference to indicate how long a suspension should be.

- Perhaps this incident could be a way to increase awareness of various types of diversity. It's telling that there is no openly gay athlete in sports - the stigma would undoubtedly be too great. This suggests, again, that Escobar is a symptom, not the disease.

John Northey - Wednesday, September 19 2012 @ 09:00 AM EDT (#263583) #

Wonderfully said TamRa. The issue isn't Escobar so much as it is the attitude. The fact the other players & umpires saw nothing wrong with it, the fact even the reporters saw nothing wrong with it until it was made known by a tweet from a fan.

As I said, I'm certain it is very, very common in the locker room and on the field for players to make that type of comment. That is what needs to change, not the making of comments but the attitude that causes it - the attitude that if you love someone of the same gender that you are less of a person than someone who loves a member of the opposite gender. How does that happen? Impossible to say. In MLB it was acceptable to view non-white players that way just 65 years ago, then Jackie Robinson forced them to see that non-whites could be as good as white players. Even so it took decades for it to be universally seen that way (see Boston and how they were all-white for a long, long time and how you were not a 'true Yankee' unless you were white to many even into the 80's as I recall some mentioning that back then even after Reggie and Winfield and others).

A day when a player being gay is viewed with a shoulder shrug (ie: a so who cares feeling, much like when KD Lang came out - no one cared, but when she came out against beef some people went nuts) is a day we can all hope to see.

Dewey - Wednesday, September 19 2012 @ 01:00 PM EDT (#263598) #

This isn't political correctness, this is watching for smoke before a fire starts.

That�s the really scary part of PC, John. What you are absolutely sure is smoke-about-to-become-a-fire may, in fact, turn out to be just some more fog. Be careful.

Magpie - Saturday, September 22 2012 @ 04:31 AM EDT (#263702) #

I don't think the Escobar business has anything whatsoever to do with political correctness. None, nada, zilch. It's about common decency. If you actually say to someone "you're a f*gg*t" what are you doing? You're attempting to hurt someone. Which is wicked. Which is wrong, and evil. You're attempting to demean and humiliate someone and everyone like him or her. That's all there is to it. It's exactly the same as saying "you're a n*gg*r." It's done with the exact same intent. So... shame! And you damn well better be prepared for the consequences. You will certainly deserve them.

What I think of as political correctness can best be seen in the constantly evolving set of terms used to describe the less fortunate among us: the way we have moved from "moron" to "retarded" to "slow" to "special"; the way we have moved from "crippled" to "handicapped" to "disabled" to "challenged." I don't mind. I'll go along with it, and use whatever term we using these days. But I think it's an endless and probably futile struggle to convince most of us that the issue is not the condition being described but the word being used to invoke the condition. Good luck with that. What happens there is that we end up with a fresh new word for the same condition. The new word doesn't have the unpleasant connotations of "moron" or "cripple." But soon enough we discover that the shiny new word has somehow developed the exact same connotation and now it's got to be replaced. The difficulty is our attitude about the condition. We may have managed, for the most part, to see that having differently coloured skin colour is about as significant as having differently coloured eyes. And so the words attached to older and uglier attitudes offend us today. But we aren't remotely convinced that not having functional legs is equally insignificant. And in that case it's not going to make a great deal of difference which particular word you use to denote the condition. It's not fooling anyone.

Incidentally, in that first paragraph I gave some thought as to whether to type out the offensive words in full or not. On the one hand, they're not words I use in everyday speech, and I would not dream of using either to refer to any actual human being. On the other hand I hate formulations like "the x-word" and - more to the point - I want the right to use any word whatsoever if that's what the context requires. If I'm telling someone about a Tupac tune, I won't be quoting "I felt so free as a young n-word." Which is an easy example, but still... (For something more subtle and subversive, see what Randy Newman does in "Rednecks.)"

I compromised - I thought of the children! - but I can't help feeling I copped out...

hypobole - Saturday, September 22 2012 @ 10:36 AM EDT (#263706) #

One last thing on the Escobar issue that no one seems to have brought up (probably because none of us seem to be latinos). The term Escobar used has been translated as "You are a f*gg*t", yet from what I've read the term he used is more "You are gay". Whatever the meaning, it was being used inappropriately in a pejorative fashion, so the suspension etc still are warranted. However, like John, (and other posters here) "f*gg*t" seems harsh enough that I didn't type it out in full, whereas "gay", seems to carry a much less disturbing connotation when used as Escobar did.

Mike Green - Saturday, September 22 2012 @ 12:34 PM EDT (#263709) #

Apparently, the word "maricon" is used more commonly to mean homosexual in Spain and more commonly to mean "wuss" in certain parts of Latin America. For a long time, when I was a kid, we used the phrase "he gypped me" completely oblivious to the origin of the phrase. Later, it blew me away when somebody (well over the age of 25) in the 1980s described a negotiation to me as "he jewed me down", apparently also oblivious to the origin of the phrase and the potential for offence.

It is not clear to me that Escobar was attempting to shame. The answer to the question, "how dumb can people be?" is "don't ask!". Writing "you are a wuss" in eyeblack isn't exactly a Mensa move.

Dewey - Saturday, September 22 2012 @ 01:18 PM EDT (#263713) #

It is not clear to me that Escobar was attempting to shame. The answer to the question, "how dumb can people be?" is "don't ask!". Writing "you are a wuss" in eyeblack isn't exactly a Mensa move.

Agreed, Mike.

My concern in this �business� is much less about Escobar�s scribble and much more to do with the overreactions to it. (Run him out of town. Suspend him for the rest of the season, and such. All the moral righteousness.) That�s what I consider to be political correctness. Salem witch trial sort of stuff. I long ago attained shrug status about someone being gay or not. But I don�t think that attitude police who urge stomping out what *might* be fires should not be shrugged of as inconsequential, let alone on the side of whatever is good. What I find worrying are the vigilantes so ready to set him swinging. Such extreme views are themselves a form of intolerance, as I see it.

I send this because my remarks about political correctness may have been misconstrued. I do not for a moment condone what Escobar did (though, I repeat, I don�t think he had a clue about its possible significances).

And Magpie, �the Escobar business� does indeed have something to do with political correctness, if you include in �business� the reactions to what he did -- which were my concern.

Dewey - Saturday, September 22 2012 @ 04:39 PM EDT (#263715) #

Sorry, I mistakenly left a �not� in this sentence. It should read as follows:

�But I don�t think that attitude-police who urge stomping out what *might* be fires should be shrugged of as inconsequential, let alone on the side of whatever is good. �

bpoz - Wednesday, September 26 2012 @ 09:00 AM EDT (#263864) #

That was so well said Magpie, that I must say thank you. You thought it through in detail AND explained it so very well. We will probably always have physical & mental disabilities in society. Your explanation was great. Thanks.

I know this is not the place to discuss this. But Religion, morals (steal, lie, cover up)...probably more stuff. I am totally lost. I cannot tell my children what to do, if they are good then someone will take advantage. I don't know.

Paul D - Wednesday, September 26 2012 @ 11:08 AM EDT (#263873) #

I don't know if anyone noticed, but the Jays traded Torrealba to the Brewers last week for a player to be named.

Blue Jays Report Card: Eighth Preliminary | 51 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.