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The Blue Jays have signed Mark DeRosa, presumably to be the right handed bat off the bench that AA was looking for.  To make room on the 40 man roster Sam Dyson was designated for assignment.  DeRosa is 37 years old, 38 by opening day, and hasn't had a 100 OPS+ season since 2009.  However I assume he will rarely see a right handed pitcher and DeRosa has hit better against lefties.

Dyson was selected for assignment over someone like Ryan Goins or Jeremy Jeffress.  It is likely that some team will pick up Dyson.  This assumed loss makes it even more puzzling as to why Dyson was called up for 2 games last season.  That might cost them the player.  However Dyson is a confirmed reliever and they are a dime a dozen these days, unless your K rate is 12 in AA.  Dyson was far from that.

So are we done with the roster now?

Out With The New, In With The Old | 74 comments | Create New Account
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PeterG - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 12:50 PM EST (#268195) #
Unfortunate. Yes, calling him up last season was a mistake. I think, however, the team will get something for him in terms of trade rather than lose him as a waiver claim. This may have been JF's mistake rather than AA's but ultimately the GM is accountable. I agree with keeping Goins. Not so sure about Jeffress. Have to trust the scouts, I guess.
whiterasta80 - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 12:54 PM EST (#268196) #
Interesting choice. I certainly don't hate it, although I was holding out feint hope that we might have picked up a Xavier Nady (circa 2007) type. You'd like a little more power off of the bench ideally, but the versatility we have is incredible. Hopefully Sierra and/or Cooper emerge this year in advance of the inevitable Lind crap-out/injury.
whiterasta80 - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 12:55 PM EST (#268197) #
I also agree with keeping Goins. I can't comment on Jeffress but Dyson struck me as the very definition of expendable.
Richard S.S. - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 01:19 PM EST (#268198) #
Everyone who comes here (with anything left) usually hits better (Mathis did), but DeRosa's inability to play SS might cause problems
rpriske - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 01:21 PM EST (#268199) #
DeRosa doesn't really need to play SS as both current middle infliders do just that. Want him to spell Reyes? DeRosa pays 2B and Maicer slides over.
TamRa - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 01:25 PM EST (#268200) #
I'll wait and see if he's traded for something of interest. Reliever or not, I would NOT be happy about losing him for nothing, particularly in this fashion.

I mean really, why in the heck do you have to give a 38 year old who 100 at bats in THREE YEARS a major league contract anyway? Give him a minor league deal and let camp tell you who to drop at the end of March. For all we know DeRosa could blow up his knee in camp and we'd lose a player - any player - and gain nothing at all.

I'm as displeased - so far - as i was with the Cordero signing. I do have a slightly irrational attacment to Dyson, but i don't have such an attachment to Jenkins, whom i don't believe in at all, and I'd feel the same way if it had been Jenkins who was DFA'd

TamRa - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 01:30 PM EST (#268201) #
Revised and extended: I don't even want DeRosa on the roster. if we'd had an open roster spot i'd have been against wasting it on him. He starts the season as easily my least favorite member of the roster.

I wouldn't consider it significantly different to just go with an eight man bullpen, honestly.


Marc Hulet - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 02:01 PM EST (#268203) #
The way I see it, Toronto just traded Sam Dyson for DeRosa, someone who hasn't been relevant -- or quite possibly better than Mike McCoy -- in more than 3 years. Better players than DeRosa head to camp as a non-roster invitee. Someone will most certainly take a flyer on Dyson, and I will almost guarantee it will be Houston with the first waiver pick. He may only be a middle reliever but he throws hard and has 2 options remaining.
sam - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 02:04 PM EST (#268204) #
I wouldn't completely write off someone like Jeremy Jeffress.  He brings a lot to the table and on projection alone probably bests anyone the Jays currently have in the bullpen.  I would hope he gets a long look this spring and potentially one of the bullpen spots if not to work with Pat Hentgen a bit longer.  Jeffress is the type of pitcher, should he even remotely harness his control, who strikes guys out in October and those from your classic old-school scouting point-of-view do not come around often. 

It is a balance competing teams need to weigh--to accommodate projection-type players out of options over those "veteran presence" players.  If carrying an eight man bullpen for the first few months means Jeffress stays on and perhaps becomes a very important piece down the road than ya I'm all for it.     
Gerry - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 02:12 PM EST (#268205) #
As Marc says why not bring DeRosa to camp as an NRI?  On March 15 you can put Drabek, Hutchison and Perez on the 60 day DL and open up three roster spots.
92-93 - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 02:30 PM EST (#268208) #
Presumably because:

1. you want DeRosa,
2. he won't sign an NRI with you, and
3. you have zero concern about losing Sam Dyson.
Mike Green - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 02:32 PM EST (#268209) #
DeRosa?  Why?  Surely there must be a 4A lefty masher about who would be a better bet. 
China fan - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 02:40 PM EST (#268210) #
At last, something for the fans to get angry about! It's been too long. There was so little for us to criticize for so many months, but now, finally, everyone can get agitated again.

Some of the answers have already been suggested by 92-93, but let me continue to play devil's advocate for a while: first, the answer to Gerry's question could be that DeRosa had other offers and wouldn't accept an NRI deal. DeRosa has had little difficulty in getting major-league contracts for many years, so he might not be ready to settle for a NRI deal.

Second, it's possible that the Jays have soured on Dyson and just don't see much future for him, especially with the increasing depth in the Jays bullpen. He's a reliever, not a starter, and minor-league relievers are a dime a dozen. (Evan Crawford anyone? Or Chad Beck?) If a team like Houston is keen on Dyson, the Jays can withdraw him from waivers and work out a trade.

Third, to continue as devil's advocate here: the point is that the Jays need a utility guy who will accept a small amount of playing time without being a dissident and a malcontent. Everyone likes to ridicule the notion of the "character guy" or the "clubhouse guy" -- and admittedly it didn't work out well last year with Omar Vizquel -- but there's a case to be made that the "character guy" has value that isn't easily measured but is non-trivial. Here, for example, is the case made today by one blogger, Drew Fairservice:

"We can dismiss it and laugh it off and whine about the inability to capture and place value on these skills, but the front offices of Major League Baseball teams obviously value them. So the 'thinking fan' must as well. If the front office likes having 'veteran presence' in the clubhouse, itís because they believe it will help the team win more baseball games.... If Mark DeRosa was the only mascot in the league, then we could wonder if Alex Anthopoulos is off his rocker. But he isnít (and he isnít.)"

And to round out the "devil's advocate" position, here's a nugget from John Lott's article -- a statistic which maybe shouldn't be entirely dismissed:

In 22 postseason games with Atlanta, Chicago and St. Louis, DeRosa has hit .358 with a .414 on-base percentage.



greenfrog - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 02:51 PM EST (#268211) #
The signing might also be an indication that all was not well in last year's clubhouse, and that the Jays want to set the bar high when it comes to professionalism, work ethic, putting the team first, etc.
Super Bluto - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 02:54 PM EST (#268212) #
And to round out the "devil's advocate" position, here's a nugget from John Lott's article -- a statistic which maybe shouldn't be entirely dismissed:

In 22 postseason games with Atlanta, Chicago and St. Louis, DeRosa has hit .358 with a .414 on-base percentage.

What old testament gods would be at work if we got to the post-season and had to use DeRosa? Sheesh.

China fan - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 02:57 PM EST (#268213) #
Looking ahead, can we glean anything about the team's likely lineup construction as a result of the DeRosa acquisition? For example, does it suggest that Bonifacio will get a lot of time in the outfield, since DeRosa is primarily an infielder, and does it suggest that Davis is the likely platoon partner for Lind?

Just to answer my own question: perhaps not. Bonifacio is still likely to play a lot at 2B, especially when Izturis shifts to SS on the days when Reyes is rested. And as for the DH, we could still see a rotating cast of several hitters who are being occasionally rested from their normal duties in the field. But I'd also think that Davis will get some DH time against LHP.
China fan - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 03:01 PM EST (#268214) #
"....What old testament gods would be at work if we got to the post-season and had to use DeRosa?...."

Good point. But perhaps John Lott was using those playoff numbers to hint at two different points: 1) it's a reminder that DeRosa has spent a lot of time in the playoffs, and "knows what it takes" to get there, etc, etc, which could theoretically be something that he can convey to his teammates; 2) it's a suggestion that DeRosa can do the "clutch hitting" thing. However, as most sabremetricians would argue, there really isn't such a thing as proven "clutchiness", so this is probably not a particularly convincing point.
dawgatc - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 03:14 PM EST (#268215) #
Sometimes you just have to trustAA and his scouts.I think this one of those times.
Geoff - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 03:24 PM EST (#268216) #
for the same price of DeRosa, the Jays could have had the first overall pick of the 2003 draft, who signed for the same terms with the Phillies today.

Which would be more useful? Delmon or DeRosa? Neither is anything to get excited about, but would this ballclub need DeRosa's reliable infield defense that much. Does DeRosa bring that much more to the table than minor league signee Eugenio Velez? Get the GM to a pillory! The people are restless.
Chuck - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 03:26 PM EST (#268217) #

Per the binomial distribution, the odds of a "true" .270 hitter hitting .358 or better in 53 at-bats is 10%. Without even factoring in his decline in recent years, I'd say his career .270 average is far more predictive for the post-season than his small sample .358.

Ryan Day - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 03:30 PM EST (#268218) #
I really don't get what the Jays have been thinking with Dyson:
  • Draft a guy in the 4th round despite needing TJ surgery and already having a significant injury history.
  • Wait a year for him to rehab.
  • Promote him to the majors 3 months into his first pro season, despite so-so numbers.
  • Use him for 2/3 of an inning over a two-week period. Demote him.
  • Drop him from the roster in order to sign a 37-year-old utility player.
Was there ever any sort of plan? They seem to have gone from thinking he was pretty hot stuff to having absolutely no value surprisingly fast.
whiterasta80 - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 03:34 PM EST (#268219) #
In fairness Delmon has a whole bunch of performance bonuses which could bring his salary way up.

He's also the polar opposite of DeRosa in terms of clubhouse influence for whatever that is worth.
Mike Green - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 03:39 PM EST (#268220) #
If you are going to get an infielder, why not somebody who has played significant time in the middle infield more recently than 2008?  It looks to me like the attraction here is a veteran presence on the bench, and that's fine, but surely there is a 35 year old middle infield defensive whiz or a 36 year old masher who can still hit lefties around.  Y'know, a player who can actually help the club win with tangible contributions on the field. 
greenfrog - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 03:41 PM EST (#268222) #
Which would be more useful? Delmon or DeRosa?

Young has incentives that could increase the value of his contract to about $3.25M, per Ken Rosenthal.
Geoff - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 03:42 PM EST (#268223) #
It's become clear now, thanks to the information bandied about the internets, that DeRosa was signed to be a mentor and accomplished guest speaker for this team. And if he does well, he can hire Jeff Frye as his agent to renegotiate his $750,000 team option for next year.

Presumably, he will be a bigger team supporter than Omar Vizquel was here. Whoever DeRosa will be for the Jays this year, he knows his role: as lucky charm?

greenfrog - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 03:54 PM EST (#268225) #
From the Washington Post article:

team dad, mentor, an additional hitting coach, team comedian and a friend

What's not to like? He has all five clubhouse chemistry tools.
Landomar - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 03:59 PM EST (#268226) #

AA is a GM that often goes down to a 3 man bench, and doesn't seem to believe that extra position players have much value.  He's probably happy with a backup catcher, Bonifacio, and Davis.  The last spot for him, it seems, is mostly useless in terms of on field production.  So, he could either go with an 8 man bullpen, or add a guy to be a "veteran presence," "good influence on the team," and emergency defensive sub that lets the manager use all his other guys at will without worrying about tapping out his bench.   Mark DeRosa was added as a clubhouse guy, and I think the hope is that he won't play much at all this season anyway.  Meh.

Geoff - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 04:08 PM EST (#268227) #
It wouldn't be uncharacteristic of Mark to spend much of his time as the clubhouse guy on the DL most of the year. Effectively giving the Jays a clubhouse guy who may not even be on the active roster. In the meantime, the Jays can cycle through other cheap options from Buffalo.

That's AA, always looking to exploit a hidden loophole.
Mike Green - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 04:13 PM EST (#268228) #
That's actually not a bad explanation, Geoff.  Thanks.  We'll see if it plays out that way. 
hypobole - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 04:16 PM EST (#268229) #
Delmon Young??? An overweight Eric Thames with baggage. Pass.
hypobole - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 04:34 PM EST (#268230) #
"If a team like Houston is keen on Dyson, the Jays can withdraw him from waivers and work out a trade."

For the purposes of waiver claims, is Houston AL or NL this offseason?
whiterasta80 - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 04:40 PM EST (#268231) #
Correction. A right handed hitting, overweight Eric Thames with baggage.
Lylemcr - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 04:40 PM EST (#268232) #

To me, it says AA is trying to do everything he can to make this season a winning season.   It could be....

Richard S.S. - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 04:43 PM EST (#268233) #
Is it still possible, in Spring Training, to release players paying only a fraction of the salary? That might be Blanco's and DeRosa's future.
Magpie - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 08:04 PM EST (#268238) #
Adam Lind had a better OBP and Slugging than Delmon Young last season. And it's not like Young makes up for it with his defense, either.

Losing Dyson and adding DeRosa is not all that interesting to me, on both ends. Just one thing - DeRosa had 85 ABs last season, and 86 the year before. Both years he struck out in 18 of those at bats. One year he hit .279, and one year he hit .188 - the deities of Ball in Play can sure be fickle.
TamRa - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 08:41 PM EST (#268239) #
As Marc says why not bring DeRosa to camp as an NRI?  On March 15 you can put Drabek, Hutchison and Perez on the 60 day DL and open up three roster spots.

Exactly.

and furthermore, Henry Blanco has no business with a 40 man roster spot either.

Both of them could easily be added to the roster in mid-March in the manneryou describe.
John Northey - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 09:17 PM EST (#268240) #
In the other thread I mentioned how DeRosa  was an everyday player in 2009 with a 99 OPS+ while playing everywhere.  Then from 2010 to now has a total of 302 PA and a 62 OPS+.  Lifetime before 2010 he was at 97.  vw_fan17 mentioned that it seems there was a wrist injury.  I tried to check the baseball player injury database but the website is gone, bought out by a domain sitter it appears (people who buy up domains as soon as they expire and demand $1k or more from the old owner).  Luckily I found a new one and Mark DeRosa's stats are at...
http://injurydb.drivelinebaseball.com/index.php/injurydb/playerresult/MTM2NjYw

Lists ankle sprains in 2002 and 2006, then a wrist strain on July 1st 2009 (17 days DL'ed), followed by surgery on his wrist on May 9th 2010.  This matches what vw_fan17 said and suggests he never fully recovered.  Now, could the Jays have done tests on his wrist and felt he has finally healed?  Or do they feel the lack of playing time cut his effectiveness drastically?  Who knows?  But if he could be a 80-90 OPS+ backup at 3B/2B/1B/LF/RF with reasonable defense then he has value at the end of the bench.
hypobole - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 09:21 PM EST (#268242) #
"AA is a GM that often goes down to a 3 man bench"

Jays had an 8 man pen at times last year because they had close to the worst starters in baseball.

I can't see an 8 man pen this year now that the team has quality starting pitching.
TamRa - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 09:24 PM EST (#268243) #
1. you want DeRosa,
2. he won't sign an NRI with you, and


Given his last three years, I find it inconcievable DeRosa has another choice for a major league contract. But then, i find it inconcievable the Jays gave him one. I can't see, on paper, anything which suggests he's worthy of it.


If a team like Houston is keen on Dyson, the Jays can withdraw him from waivers and work out a trade.

Not  sure that is so.

" Once a player is designated for assignment, the team has ten days to do one of the following things: the player can be traded, the player can be released, or the player can be put on waivers and, provided he clears, outrighted to the minors. A player who is outrighted to the minors is removed from the 40-man roster but is still paid according to the terms of his guaranteed contract. A player can only be outrighted once in his career without his consent."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_transactions#Waivers

And from another site, appearing after an extended discussion of the revocable waivers rules which apply after the 7/31tradedeadline, there's this:

There also are three other kinds of waivers. Teams will place a player on unconditional release waivers before they cut him. Irrevocable outright waivers come into play when a team wants to remove a player from the 40-man roster but keep him within the minor-league system. If, however, another team claims him, then he's gone. Finally, optional waivers cover players with options (more to come on the subject of options) who are being dispatched back to the minors three years or more after debuting in the majors. Like trade assignment waivers, optional waivers are revocable.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-transactions-waiver-trade-deadline-rules-explained-080310

Dyson's not on on release waivers
He's not on option waivers (3 years having not passed)and revocable waivers seems to apply in-season.

That leaves irrevocable outright waivers. I'm pretty sure you can't take that back.

TamRa - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 09:28 PM EST (#268244) #
And to round out the "devil's advocate" position, here's a nugget from John Lott's article -- a statistic which maybe shouldn't be entirely dismissed:

In 22 postseason games with Atlanta, Chicago and St. Louis, DeRosa has hit .358 with a .414 on-base percentage.


53 at-bats the last of which came over 3 years ago (in the context of a player about to be 38)?

I entirely dismiss those.
TamRa - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 09:39 PM EST (#268245) #
Is it still possible, in Spring Training, to release players paying only a fraction of the salary? That might be Blanco's and DeRosa's future.

It's certainly not impossible, but that possibility, however small, is that much more an argument that neither man should be on the 40 man tonight.

As Gerry noted, quite accurately, players of that stature can easily be added to the roster after you shift the injured dudes to the 60 Day DL.

If he insists on a major league deal then there are 6 or 7 other some of whom will be less choosey.And any of whom could contribute as much on the field.

I won't take the time to look now but my guess is several similar guys have already been signed to minor league deals.
Doom Service - Tuesday, January 22 2013 @ 11:02 PM EST (#268246) #
Dyson isn't on waivers yet. He's just been designated for assignment. Jays have 10 days to extract some value for him in the form of a trade. If he's as valuable as some think, some team will offer something.
dan gordon - Wednesday, January 23 2013 @ 01:58 AM EST (#268248) #

I really like the DeRosa signing.  In 2008 he had an OBP of .376 with an OPS of .857, including 21 HR's in just 505 AB's.  He followed that up in 2009 with 23 HR's in 515 AB's and a .752 OPS.  The Giants then signed him in the offseason and he was expected to be a big part of the team in 2010.  Unfortunately, the wrist surgery he had in that offseason for a tendon sheath injury had gone wrong, and his season was ruined by a second surgery.  He appeared to be healthy and ready to contribute in 2011, but he reinjured the wrist, completely tearing the tendon.  His 2012 season was wrecked by an oblique injury. 

So, in his last 2 healthy seasons, he was a pretty valuable guy, with an OPS of about .800 if you average out those 2 years.  If he is healthy, I think he can be an important contributor to the team.  The Jays must think he's got a reasonable chance of being healthy, or they wouldn't have signed him.  He has a career OPS of .752, and can play corner inf or outfield.

China fan - Wednesday, January 23 2013 @ 04:20 AM EST (#268249) #
Doom Service is absolutely right. Sam Dyson has been designated for assignment, so he's not immediately placed on irrevocable waivers. The Jays have 10 days to do something with him, and trading him is an option. If Dyson is as valuable as some people think, he has trade value, and the Jays can get something in return for him.

However, I doubt the Jays will get much for him. Dyson has an injury history, and he turns 25 in May, which is rather old for a reliever who's still in AA.

China fan - Wednesday, January 23 2013 @ 04:34 AM EST (#268250) #
It's interesting to contrast AA's roster decisions in 2013 compared to 2012. He clearly has a better idea of what he wants. Last year, he was indecisive about bench spots and didn't decide about Omar Vizquel until the very end of spring training. He was obviously ambivalent about the guy. This year, he has a stronger idea of what he wants for the MLB roster, and he has targeted guys like Blanco and DeRosa at a much earlier stage. Of course it's possible for us to debate those decisions, but my point is that AA has made an early decision and clearly targeted the guys that he wants.

So, having targeted those guys for the MLB roster, should he try to be cheap and chintzy by squeezing them for NRI contracts? First, he might not get them if he does that. Second, it's an insulting way to treat a major-league player, unless they are clearly in the "unproven" or "injury rehab" categories. If the Jays have decided that they want Blanco and DeRosa, why pressure them into an insecure deal?

The sole benefit of an NRI contract is saving a 40-man roster spot. But what's the value of that if the 40-man roster includes players like Dyson who don't have a lot of trade value or career prospects?
John Northey - Wednesday, January 23 2013 @ 05:56 AM EST (#268251) #
I cannot imagine even AA getting anything for a AA reliever with 2 games of ML experience who K's under 5 per 9 IP who is entering his age 25 season.  Odds are he'll pass through waivers and get onto the minor league roster without much trouble.  Someone might pick him up and leave him on their 40 man, but only a team with a very weak pen or who thinks highly of a 4th round pick who has an injury history. 
92-93 - Wednesday, January 23 2013 @ 09:32 AM EST (#268252) #
"Given his last three years, I find it inconcievable DeRosa has another choice for a major league contract."

Not sure why you quoted me before making this point. Whether or not DeRosa has OTHER options is irrelevant; all I said was that DeRosa wouldn't sign an NRI with Toronto, and that AA wanted him. Sure, he may have signed an NRI with the Cubs, but that doesn't mean anything in evaluating this situation.



Mike Green - Wednesday, January 23 2013 @ 10:43 AM EST (#268254) #
There is a piece of evidence about DeRosa's recovery from his wrist injuries of 2010 and 2011, which I had missed.  He actually hit very well in spring training 2012 (including power consistent with his pre-wrist injury levels) and won a regular job from the Nationals, but immediately sustained an oblique injury.  Granted that it is a small sample, but he has had only 300 at-bats in 3 years, so no matter what you look at, you are looking at a small sample. 

In his career, DeRosa has a significantly better line than Rajai Davis against LHPs, so if he is healthy, there is the possibility of using him in the platoon DH/backup IF role.

Richard S.S. - Wednesday, January 23 2013 @ 10:47 AM EST (#268255) #
Just listened to a Mark DeRosa interview on the Jeff Blair show. If a little later you should go on the Fan 590 website and listen to that Podcast.

Apparently that wrist destroyed any power he had. I think consistent At Bats would help, but that might not happen.

You should listen, because A.A. said..........
Dave Till - Wednesday, January 23 2013 @ 01:05 PM EST (#268257) #
Some thoughts about DeRosa and the 25th man:
  • Sorry to go all Captain Obvious here, but of course DeRosa isn't very good. If he was any good, someone would sign him as a regular.

  • What you want from a bench player, it seems to me, is somebody who won't be a jerk about it - who has accepted the idea that he won't get to be a regular. (To my way of thinking, "veteran leader" equals "older ballplayer who isn't a jerk".)

  • Players like DeRosa exist because teams carry so many pitchers nowadays. You need some guy on the bench who can do a little bit of everything - who can play 5, 6, or even 7 positions, and maybe serve as a pinch hitter now and then.

    Earl Weaver would never have had a guy like DeRosa on his roster, as his bench would have been large enough to allow him to specialize. He was able to build a bench consisting of hitters who can't field (or who can only hit lefties or righties) and defensive replacements who can't hit; in late-inning situations, he could pinch-hit with a hitter and then replace him with a fielder.

    I'm hoping that the Jays' New And Improved Starting Rotation [tm] will allow them to build a deeper bench and not have to do things such as use Omar Vizquel as a pinch hitter.

  • Nice guys don't finish last: players that have a reputation of being good in the clubhouse will often have careers far longer than their statistics seem to warrant, just because it's more enjoyable to be around them every day. I think this might explain, for example, why Pat Borders was playing major league baseball at the age of 42.

  • I don't think the DeRosa signing will make a lot of difference, as he won't play much. If he winds up playing a lot, it'll be because somebody better got hurt, which will mean that the Jays are in trouble.

Lylemcr - Wednesday, January 23 2013 @ 04:18 PM EST (#268258) #

I think if someone gets hurt De Rosa will get a game or two at best then someone from Buffalo gets called up. 

He is a veteran guy who has been to the world series. 

It could be debatable whether good character helps the clubhouse or not, but I know bad character can kill it (aka Yunel Escobar).

Losing Dyson hurts, but at 25 his status as a prospect is slipping.

John Northey - Wednesday, January 23 2013 @ 06:01 PM EST (#268259) #
Well, the Jays haven't lost Dyson yet as he is just about to be put on waivers to be sent to the minors I suspect.  If no one claims him then he sticks and given his very low K rate I wouldn't be shocked if he does stick around.
Richard S.S. - Wednesday, January 23 2013 @ 08:45 PM EST (#268260) #
Who would want Sam Dyson? He's a 25-year old 2010 Pick with a big injury history. He couldn't make anyone's top 20 list prior to the big trades. He struggles at the level he 's at and doesn't look to get better .

And he looks like the pitchers that always go in trades, and they have similar numbers . So who knows what his value is . If everyone had agreed to rank him # 5 prospect, he would have already been traded despite his numbers.
PeterG - Wednesday, January 23 2013 @ 10:36 PM EST (#268261) #
Totally disagrees. Dyson will never get through waivers. I think a deal will be arranged, maybe for an AAA type player. anyone other than houston will have to deal for him.
eudaimon - Thursday, January 24 2013 @ 12:15 AM EST (#268262) #
I doubt Dyson gets picked up. 25 year old reliever not blowing people away at AA. Maybe he has potential, but I doubt enough for people to give up a spot on the 40 man roster for him.
Geoff - Thursday, January 24 2013 @ 12:39 AM EST (#268263) #
Speaking of out with the new, in with the old... What are the chances we get to see some new banner options? Maybe even a rotation of banners could be possible? There aren't a shortage of candidates to plaster up there. I'm thinking Dickey and Reyes.

In fact, we have 4/5ths of the current rotation under team control for the next three years, if you want to consider the rotation in the rotation of banners. (Although I still doubt Buehrle won't follow Oliver into retirement, and Romero could become an expensive reliever if he doesn't perform better than other options.) Could we hope for an all-D.R. banner? Reyes-Bautista-Melky-Edwin-Bonifacio.

Just throwing it out there in case somebody needs something to do in the cold weather. Spring Training can't come soon enough.
hypobole - Thursday, January 24 2013 @ 01:39 AM EST (#268264) #
Dyson is an odd case.

One one hand, he's almost 25, had a lengthy injury history prior to being drafted and underwent TJ before he even pitched as a pro. And his K rate last year was poor, especially for a reliever.

On the other hand he received a $600K signing bonus, held his own in AA and reached the majors in his 1st year of pro ball. The Jays thought enough of him to send him to the AFL. In 45 AA innings, he had a 63.3% GB and only 18.4% FB. To put that into perspective, 368 pitchers in MLB threw 40+ innings. Only 3 had a higher GB% and only 5 a lower FB%.

My guess is someone will take a chance with him.



China fan - Thursday, January 24 2013 @ 05:49 AM EST (#268265) #
In the case of Dyson, it's possible that Anthopoulos is trying the same tactic of "sneaking him through" that he did with a number of other players during this off-season. It's late January, and many teams have finalized their 40-man rosters, or nearly so. A lot of rosters are already very full at this time of year. Most teams might not have room to take a gamble on a nearly 25-year-old with an injury history. Anthopoulos was successful in sneaking a few other players through waivers -- the latest was Tommy Hottovy, who cleared waivers on Jan. 16 and was assigned outright to Buffalo. If a pretty good reliever like Hottovy can be snuck through waivers at this time of year, maybe Dyson can.
John Northey - Thursday, January 24 2013 @ 09:14 AM EST (#268266) #
Right now the roster has 21 pitchers, 4 catchers, 7 infielders, 7 outfielders and 1 DH (Encarnacion).  NRI's include another 12 pitchers, 3 catchers, 7 infielders and 2 outfielders.  So this spring there are going to be 33 pitchers fighting for 12 slots that appear pretty much decided except for maybe one or two slots.  That's enough pitchers to stock the majors, AAA and most of AA if you go with 12 per level (just 3 shy).  That's enough catchers for the majors, AAA, AA, with one left over for A+. 

Phew.  That's one crowded bullpen we'll see in the spring.  There always are tons of catchers in spring as you need someone to catch all those pitchers.  I suspect they also have a few retired catchers coming in for a couple weeks work too (doing just bullpen sessions, not in-game play). 

So I guess that puts Dyson as no higher than #22 on the depth chart and perhaps as low as #34.  I suspect they can live without him if he doesn't clear waivers.
Richard S.S. - Thursday, January 24 2013 @ 11:02 AM EST (#268267) #

According to: http://www.milb.com/milb/info/faq.jsp?mc=business#19 , AAA and AA each keep 24 active players and another 13-14 under team control. If you include Extended Spring Training (in case of April, May injuries), I think the team has enough room for everyone, while the Team evaluates each one.

Sam Dyson has good enough stats (comparably) when you consider the 24-27 year-old pitchers traded this offseason. Each of those pitchers were much higher on their Team's prospect list than Dyson was on his. Is it possible where on a prospect list you sit matters more than how well you perform? He has options left; only been on the 40-man less than 1 year; less than three years since drafted - and he could get claimed off waivers?

J.A. Happ needs to go on optional waivers (or whatever it's called) to be sent to AAA. If (A.A. says highly unlikely) he's claimed, he could be pulled back. (Tentatively) With Santos, Janssen, Oliver, Rogers as pretty much locks (per A.A.) and Cecil and Jeffress out of options, Happ would then make the Bullpen while Delabar is sent down or Jeffress/Cecil is released.

MatO - Thursday, January 24 2013 @ 11:49 AM EST (#268268) #
Mike Green - Thursday, January 24 2013 @ 12:31 PM EST (#268269) #
I really like Arizona's side of the deal.  Justin Upton could be an MVP candidate the next three years, but it is more likely that he is an above-average player (as Prado is).  If the D-Backs sign Prado for 3/39, they will likely end up with more value than Upton (between Prado and Delgado) and at a lower cost. 

Prado is under-appreciated.  The combination of good hitting ability and plate control, medium range pop, pretty good speed and good defence in the infield, will never find as many enthusiasts as the power-hitting young outfielder.

Named For Hank - Thursday, January 24 2013 @ 12:59 PM EST (#268270) #
The banner challenge, Geoff, is one of generating the images. We've always had a culture of building our content instead of repurposing someone else's, and that extended to photographs. I haven't photographed a game since 2005, live in Ottawa and no longer get press access, so I'm not much help.

I was also away from the site forever, so I don't know what we've been doing in the meantime. But the short answer is that we aren't likely to change it before the season starts.

Trivia: the ball in the logo was thrown to me by Frank Catalanotto when I brought an eight foot VOTE CATALANOTTO banner to the Rogers Centre that matched the VOTE DELGADO and VOTE WELLS banners on the outfield walls. Later, my wife got him to sign it for me. The signature is on the opposite side from what we see. That's also the ball that illustrates the comments.

All of the site icons are objects from my old office. The book in the "Library" graphic, for instance, is my copy of The Collected Novels of Raymond Chandler.

Geoff - Thursday, January 24 2013 @ 02:11 PM EST (#268272) #
I know you often contributed photography for the site, but had not heard of the story of the BB ball. I am glad to hear of the rich tapestry of this site's elements.

It occurred to me this morning that the photos from the banners are always member-produced and there have been preciously few opportunities to capture any of the new Jays on film or binary encoding. Thus making my suggestion well ahead of its time.

I will temper my enthusiasm to see fresh images until some can be captured, and I may hope to capture a candidate image or two of my own when I get to a few games in April.

Thanks again for the details you shared. Nothing beats a good bit of story.
TamRa - Thursday, January 24 2013 @ 02:56 PM EST (#268276) #
speaking of DFA'd names which are familiar - the D'Backs designated Lars Anderson.

How the formerly mighty have fallen.


JB21 - Thursday, January 24 2013 @ 08:56 PM EST (#268286) #
What about the Angry Jay logo on the site? Can we update that? Surely it's not an original BB photograph.
Named For Hank - Friday, January 25 2013 @ 08:27 AM EST (#268287) #
Replacing the logo is easy enough, but it will probably require a change in site colours. Even the highlights around the styled text in the Batter's Box name graphic match it.

I won't deny that the site could use a makeover (the last was 2004 or 2005, aside from banner pictures), but speaking for myself, I don't have the time to commit to that.

92-93 - Friday, January 25 2013 @ 10:25 AM EST (#268289) #
Why would replacing the logo require a change in site colours? Instead of the old logo, put the new one there. Seems easy enough. And if the new one can't be placed there I'd still take the old one down, as I've thought it has looked bush league for the last year or so.
Mike Green - Friday, January 25 2013 @ 10:57 AM EST (#268290) #
It's always looked major-league to me, with a very high VORB (Value Over Replacement Banner). 
Named For Hank - Friday, January 25 2013 @ 11:12 AM EST (#268291) #
Because the colours wouldn't match, 92-93. That's just gross.
TamRa - Friday, January 25 2013 @ 03:31 PM EST (#268305) #
I wish I had any graphics skills. I can imagine what would look good but have no clue how to use photoshop or whatever to make it happen.
Alex Obal - Friday, January 25 2013 @ 09:43 PM EST (#268309) #
DeMark DeRosa?
Mike Green - Saturday, January 26 2013 @ 10:37 AM EST (#268311) #
It sure might work in New York.  De Mark took de bus to de pahk, bee-cos de limo drivah got sick.  Or is it Da Mark?

Geoff - Sunday, January 27 2013 @ 12:47 AM EST (#268325) #
No, Da Mark would play in Chicago for Da Cubbies. Or Da Bears.
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