Heck, if you said the top 4 in starts for the Jays would all have ERA+'s sub-100 and #5 would be Esmil Rogers I'd have gone 'no way' followed by 'oh (#@!'.  I think we all agree on that one though.

So the 'centrepiece' of the Rangers trade for Garza is a pitchter they picked in the 48th round.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=edward000car

Mike Olt is also involved. Edwards has basically had great stats since he began in the minors... any word on why he ended up in the 48th round?

Anyone else hoping for a Melky suspension? Not a huge fan and would love to see Pillar up

Anything interesting happening today in the world of baseball?

Glad I didn't take Ryan Braun onto my fantasy baseball team.

I'm going to put this out there but I wouldn't be shocked if another Blue Jay eventually gets nailed for permformance enhancing substances...

The Cubs got a very nice return for Garza (and I say that not being a huge fan of Olt). If only the Blue Jays had a healthy and effective Josh Johnson to deal....

Although if the Jays had one of those, AA might fool himself into thinking the team could still make the playoffs.

"I'm going to put this out there but I wouldn't be shocked if another Blue Jay eventually gets nailed for permformance enhancing substances..."

Kawasaki?

Romero is struggling tonight in Buffalo. so far in one inning ..... 4 hits 4 runs 4 walks 1 K. Don't think he's the savior any time soon.

On Romero it appears to be an inning + with 4 hits 5 runs 4 earned runs 5 walks and 1 K.

Johnson is doing his best to be untradeable as well.

Romero was due to start Saturday but the start was delayed due to illness. Mike Harrington from the Buffalo News tweeted that Ricky still looked sick tonight.

Mulligan?

Gerry, Mulligan?  Of course.

I thought the link was going to be for Gerard Mulligan, former writer for David Letterman.

This is getting pretty ugly pretty fast. It's hard for me not to think of 1995: a veteran team that expected to be in the race, but wasn't good enough. With nothing important to play for, they... didn't stop trying. That's simply not what happens. They lost their sense of purpose, a little of their competitive edge and at this level that's quite enough. The 1995 Jays, with Alomar, Molitor, Olerud, White, Guzman and Hentgen went 18-40 over the final two months.

I remember 1995.  Ugly.

It really is time for A.A. to go into sell mode. Can't be any worse with a few kids playing instead of(insert name(s) here). Might even have the added effect of making them more fun to watch.

Toronto relievers lead the majors in innings pitched (thanks to the 29th best starting pitchers in the majors) and it's probably starting to catch up with them.

You don't have to go back to 1995. It's more reminiscent of 2012: a team that was lingering on the fringes of the wild-card race in June, and then collapsed when it became clear that the season was over. Psychologically, it's a blow to the solar plexus when a team realizes that its chances are finished. It's hard to get motivated. That seems to be what's happening tonight -- a total collapse from players who had performed at a much higher level in the earlier part of the season. The same thing happened in late July and early August of 2012.

and it's probably starting to catch up with them.

And some regression was due as well, of course. All those sub-2 ERAs didn't figure to last.

"....Toronto relievers lead the majors in innings pitched (thanks to the 29th best starting pitchers in the majors) and it's probably starting to catch up with them...."

I agree. But we still need to persuade all the critics of the 8-man bullpen, who argue that the bullpen's heavy workload is irrelevant and can actually be increased by switching to a 7-man bullpen. They maintain that a bullpen is not overworked if one or two relievers haven't pitched in several days. This lack of workload for one or two relievers, according to the critics, is proof that the bullpen in its entirety can handle a heavier workload.

On the plus side, a semi-collapse could make for an interesting draft in June 2013.

2014!

Ugh.

Is there any chance Johnson pitches so badly this season that we don't get a draft pick if someone signs him? Is that actually possible?

collapsed when it became clear that the season was over.

It's a bit of a chicken-egg question - I tend to think the trigger last season was losing their best player to a season-ending injury. They were 45-44 and then Bautista got hurt. They went initially 11-24 without him; after he was shut down for the year they went 17-19. It wasn't exactly like 1995, which got worse, and then worse than that, and then even worse than that. Anyway, we'll know by October.

I just asked Liam if it's possible that Pete Walker is in over his head (this is his second season as a pitching coach, his first in the majors.) His reply: "Like a dude in a lake wearing concrete shoes."

The Jays are only 5 games back from the 3rd pick in the 2014 draft. Too bad the Jays can't trade the first round picks next year for more immediate help. At this point, I can't imagine AA still believes the Jays can make the playoffs this season. It will be interesting to see if the fans start to stay away from the Skydome because of the poor record. The attendance for the Rays series was very good despite the fact the Jays were already basically eliminated from the playoffs.

Incidentally, Josh Johnson has minor league options available.

I know, I know. He'd decline the assignment and become a free agent.

Still works for me.

they're playing like they did at the beginning of the season... it's just ugly to watch

Looks like the aliens returned Lind.

<i>On the plus side, a semi-collapse could make for an interesting draft in June 2013.</i>
 
Yeah, they might have a chance to draft Tyler Beede. 

Magpie, a billion-dollar corporation with an experienced point man in Beeston, cannot figure out how to provide proper coaching to its major league ball players? That is far-fetched. Would you say the bad coaching is also throughout the minors?

One has to wonder about the coaching.  I mean, here we have a full 5 man staff underperforming (the original one).  Not just underperforming, but drastically so.
Buehrle: Previous worst ERA+ 95 - this year 88
Johnson: Previous worst ERA+ 106 (over 20+ IP), this year 82
Morrow: Previoius worst ERA+ 90, this year 76
Dickey: Previous worst ERA+ over 30 IP 81, this year 89 (2nd worst over 30+ IP)
Romero...lets not kick a horse when its down OK?

So of the original starting 5 only one isn't having his worst season ever for ERA+ over 30+ IP.  And he is having his 2nd worst ever.  Now _that_ is bad and someone, or multiple someones, need to be fired over that.  From the scouts who said these guys were A-OK to the pitching coach who cannot figure out how to get any of them off their worst ever performances.  It is just horrid and Johnson pushed his figures even lower tonight.

I've noticed a sharp decline in the number of articles mentioning Mark DeRosa's veteran leadership recently.

The Marlins have called up Marisnick. Let's see if he finishes with a higher WAR than Johnson.

There seems to be a direct relationship forming between the increasing suckitude of the ballclub and the disintegration of rational thought on this board.

a billion-dollar corporation

Is absolutely no guarantee of even basic competence, as the history of many, many such corporations - from the Ford Motor Company to American International Group - will quickly tell you.

so it's come to this.

I can put up with being the fan of a bad team. i can be gracious in being the fan of a good team (except when it comes to beating the Yankees) I can resign myself to being the fan of a clearly mediocre team....all as long as what's happening makes some sort of rational sense.

however, the baseball gods are clearly cruel and caprecious beings and i'm just THIS close to being done with their whole da**ed casino of lies.

I've spent most of my adult life following this team when it was on top and when it horrified me (Shout out to Erik Hanson!) BUT I have lost my patience for inexplicable and maddening insanity.

most easily illustrated by this: players who play well elsewhere pull on Blue jays colors and suck. they take off Blue Jays colors and do well. Sure Bautista is an exception, and to a lesser extent Edwin, but the list on the other side of the ledger is far far too long. I had EVERY RIGHT to expect at least a reasonably good team this year, even if one could validly argue that the expectations were too high. But whatever insane whim the baseball gods are fixated on choose not just to deny that expectation but to slap me and others right in the face with it. Johnson? disappoints. Dickey? Ditto.Mark Beuhrle even?! Yup. Reyes a freak injury just for variety's sake. Meanwhile, Kelly-friggin-JOHNSON is actually contributing in Tampa of all places.

I can't take it anymore. Maybe time will heal the wound but honestly, this sport is just no fun for me anymore.

"I agree. But we still need to persuade all the critics of the 8-man bullpen, who argue that the bullpen's heavy workload is irrelevant and can actually be increased by switching to a 7-man bullpen. They maintain that a bullpen is not overworked if one or two relievers haven't pitched in several days. This lack of workload for one or two relievers, according to the critics, is proof that the bullpen in its entirety can handle a heavier workload."

Continuing to defend the 8 man bullpen is pretty strange when the team itself has abandoned it even though they have such heavy usage and we're deeper into the season than when it was being used in May & June. AA realized the folly, maybe you should too.

" I've noticed a sharp decline in the number of articles mentioning Mark DeRosa's veteran leadership "

Funny, Davidi quotes DeRosa extensively today. You'd think a guy like DeRosa is exactly the kind of person you want around in what could become a very acrimonious clubhouse. Certainly a utility player who plays multiple positions and maintains basically a league average Wrc+ is the least of this teams many problems.

"AA realized the folly"

I would think you're more intelligent than to believe this is the reason they went back to the 7 man pen. Sounds to me you're just trying to start ANOTHER slapfest with CF.

There seems to be a direct relationship forming between the increasing suckitude of the ballclub and the disintegration of rational thought on this board.

Oh, please. We're never rational.

Care to expound on that, hypobole? You seem to be suggesting they are rolling with a 7 man pen for a reason other than it being the proper roster construction.

It's been an odd season. I feel like the hitters have done well and even exceeded expectations (Rasmus, Lind). Exceptions are Cabrera (possibly negatively impacted by negative injuries), Arencibia (who knows, at least he's been a bit more patient recently), and Lawrie (I could see how people might have a hard time coaching this guy, he's way too jittery).

The bullpen has been great. Many have performed above expectations.

The fielding has gotten better after that first terrible bit, perhaps coinciding with the disappearance of Bonifacio's playing time.

The main issue, really, is the starting pitching. Injuries (both freak and predictable) and mind-boggling ineffectiveness (no one would have predicted how crappy Johnson has been so far) have done them in.

I was about to blame Walker for the pitching, but that ignores the fact that a lot of people in the bullpen are doing quite well. I'd give him a mulligan on Johnson, who is the only guy where injuries might not be at all of a concern. So, I don't know, I'd leave the coaching staff. I'd like AA to make some trades to at least shake things up a bit, though. I'm a grand optimist but 2013 is looking extremely bad, barring a 22 game winning streak or something.

Wildrose - agreed that DeRosa isn't a key problem. No question the order of problems...
1) Starting rotation.  Fix this and we have a team over 500 and maybe in contention
2) Second Base: sOPS+ of 52...the average 2B in the league is at 100, here it is at fifty freaking two.  DeRosa at 86 is as good as it gets here, then Bonifacio at 65, Izturis at 36 (!), Kawasaki at 24 (26 PA), and Lawrie at -36...yes, negative
3) Third Base: Encarnacion and Bautista shoot up the score, but Izturis was acceptable (104) and Lawrie is endurable at 80 with his high end defense.  DeRosa was sOPS+ of 89.
4) Catcher: sOPS+ of 81.  JPA at 90, Thole at 30 and Blanco was at 48.  If Thole can hit as he did before and JPA gets more time off I think it could be acceptable.

No question, the rotation is the elephant of an issue.  Second base was, but Izturis found his bat at third base so if he plays everyday at 2B he should be fine (unless that position is cursed of course) with DeRosa as the backup.  At third I'd just leave Lawrie there with the odd day off (DeRosa goes in).  Catcher the Jays should do a mix/match of JPA and Thole and see if they can put it together as they are both here next year and for a few years after that before either hits free agency and it will be awhile until Jimenez or someone else is ready to take over.

Right now with where the team is the Jays need to focus on 2014 and who to keep/let go. 
CA: JPA/Thole are here like it or not unless a trade happens so do a near platoon and see if either can reach the level that seems possible.
1B: Encarnacion/Lind in a mix/match at 1B/DH
2B: Izturis everyday as he is here for 2 more years
3B: Lawrie everyday as he is here for awhile
SS: Reyes obviously
LF: Cabrera for now, but might be gone soon and Davis is a free agent so call up Pillar or Gose or Sierra and give whichever one a full shot for the rest of the season with Davis mixed in here and there
CF: Rasmus
RF: Bautista
DH: Lind/Encarnacion in a mix/match at 1B/DH

IF: DeRosa is a stopgap at 3B/2B, call up Kawasaki so Reyes can have days off and mix in at 2B/3B as he is a potential long term backup, dump Bonifaco
OF: Davis gets mixed in

Rotation
Dickey/Johnson/Buehrle are locks
Rogers I'd keep going with to see if he can be a solid starter.  Redmond I'd dump ASAP for whoever is healthy first of Morrow/Happ.  Given how this year has gone I'm not too worried about any other choices being forced upon the Jays in the rotation.

Bullpen
Janssen, Cecil, Delabar, Loup, Oliver, Perez, McGowan are pretty much locked in until a trade happens.  Call up Wagner for the 8th slot and limit starters to 5 IP unless they are really going well.

As guys come back from the DL decisions need to be made, but for now trades are the big issue.  Anyone who is going to be here next year should be getting every chance to play so the Jays can see if they can count on that guy next year or not.  Guys who are deadwood (Bonifacio) need to be dumped.  No more playing around with Lawrie at 2B.  If someone wants one of the starters then go ahead and trade.

That's all it was - proper roster construction. All position players were healthy and a roster spot was needed for Cabrera. No one on the club has stated they have abandoned it and no one says it was folly to have it. And if a position player is DL'ed, DFA'd or traded, it would be no surprise if the 8 man pen returns as long as the position can be covered with players already on the roster.

Myself, I don't much care one way or the other.

I was about to blame Walker for the pitching, but that ignores the fact that a lot of people in the bullpen are doing quite well.

Well, we don't know exactly what the division of coaching is between Walker & Hentgen. And relievers are generally more "manageable" because you can get the best of them through correct usage. With a starter, you mostly just put him on the mound every 5 days and leave him there.

So I don't know whose fault it is, but it certainly doesn't look great for Walker.

John Northey has pointed out that our starting pitchers are underachieving.  I would like to expand that to say everyone that came in the two big trades, plus our free agent signing, is underachieving with the possible exception of Jose Reyes.  Reyes' wOBA is higher than ZIPS but he has missed a lot of playing time.

Melky, Bonifacio and Thole are underachieving.

I haven't heard much ninja talk recently.

Meanwhile, Kelly-friggin-JOHNSON is actually contributing in Tampa of all places.

So is James Loney, who looks like a credible 1b for the first time in 6 years. Which is similar to the trick they pulled with Casey Kotchman in 2011, getting the best season of his career by a significant margin.

The Blue Jays have had some successful reclamation projects, but it always takes them a couple years to see the results.

I've been hard on Josh Johnson - hey, he's been hard to watch, and I want some payback - and I should probably note that after last night's pathetic outing (that's how Johnson himself described it) his numbers have now sunk to the point where they are now almost exactly the same as Brandon Morrow's.

I wasn't suggesting DeRosa is this team's biggest problem. Anyone who thinks that hasn't heard or read my many comments on Bonifacio. It was more a commentary on the ex post facto nature of giving credit to veteran leadership in many cases.

And I'm not discounting the fact that DeRosa's veteran leadership may have been a net positive this season. However, the team isn't winning and Brett Lawrie is neither performing well nor showing signs of maturing. Sometimes the MSM tends to treat players of DeRosa's calibre as much more influential than I believe they actually are.

One more for Tampa's resume is Jeff Keppinger in 2012.

Chuck touched on it the other day, but one of the oddities about this team is just how susceptible it is to the long ball at home.

The Jays have given up the second most runs in the league at home, and also the most home runs. Rogers Centre has always been a home run launching pad, worse some years than others.

Certain pitchers have struggled at home with the gopher ball. Dickey has an astronomical 21% hr/fb ratio, Johnson not better at 18% ( league average is 11.6 % ). No wonder Josh nibbles and seems scared pitching most of the time. For a lot of the hurlers it's a similar situation.

You'd think that this staff has a propensity for giving up the long ball as a whole, but here's why it's so bizarre, on the road they are the best team in the league at limiting home runs with a very low 8% hr / fb ratio.

Now I know it's little more than half a seasons sample size, and really I'm not sure what the answer is. As the weather gets cooler into late August and September you'll surely see some regression in home runs to the mean, and some improvement with the pitchers happening. Some of these starters just aren't as bad as they may seem which may be cold comfort to many.

And in other Jays news - JP Arencibia has closed his Twitter account.  Guess someone told him if you can't deal with it then get off the web and stop reading / posting stuff.  The last comment I have from him (my phone archives it) was "I agree @PKSubban1... @IamAmirJohnson cheated!!! One of us should have won - http://t.co/NWvTQbXOgT - #KITKATcc'  JPA was doing a KitKat challenge thing and lost.  The judge said JP's singing was 'embarassing'.  Weird thing.

Ah, the Star has a story on JPA's quitting Twitter.  It seems after his meltdown about how the media was mean to him he closed it.  The final article to push JPA over the edge was in the Sun.

One point in Walker's defence is that the rotation collectively has a lot of pitching experience. For the most part, they should know how to prepare and coach themselves. Not saying a Dave Duncan or Jim Hickey wouldn't help (I expect he would), but it's not as though Walker has had to help a bunch of new starting pitchers develop and adjust to the league.

So how about the Jays stealing Andrew Friedman and Joe Maddon from the Rays.  If you can't beat the best, steal their top brass.

It's actually getting to the point right now where I might need to let the Jays fade from my current attention in order to preserve my emotional well-being.

Maddon is signed through 2015 by the Rays.  Friedman they don't have info on at Cot's Contracts and I cannot find it on a quick search.  If I was the Jays (or any other ML club for that matter) I'd be chasing him down the second his contract is up.  Heck, I'd call up the Rays and ask what it would take to get both from them - be it players or cash.

Strength of schedule is probably more important than park effects in the travails of Dickey, Johnson, Buehrle.  The Jay pitching staff has faced opponents on club with a .500+ Winning Percentage for 2878 PA with a .278/.340/.453 line; the staff has faced opponents on a club with a below .500 for 948 PA with a .223/.285/.350 line.  That 3-1 ratio of the .500+ PAs to the .500- PAs is pretty telling.

Have the Jays had a Player's Only Meeting since the "This is a sinking ship/Play for your contracts" one?

Strength of schedule... but the pitching has been horrible against the Yankees who have one of the worse offense in the league.

The television broadcast claims there was one today. Others rumoured to have happened in the past include one called by DeRosa this season, and the "Cito Mutiny" near the end of his second tenure.