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The Melky-less Jays try and win a game in Anaheim. Last Sunday Todd Redmond faced the Astros and recorded ten strikeouts. The Anaheim lineup will provide a different challenge tonight and a truer test for Redmond. With JA Happ almost ready to come back Redmond is competing with Esmil Rogers and Josh Johnson to see who keeps their spot in the rotation.

Tommy Hanson pitches for the halos.
Game Thread 8/02 in Anaheim | 34 comments | Create New Account
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John Northey - Friday, August 02 2013 @ 10:08 PM EDT (#277512) #
I'm betting Johnson ends up on the DL for 'sucking hard' vs a normal injury to open a slot for Happ.  At this point the Jays can't be seriously considering a qualifying offer, and unless there is some kind of major injury we cannot see that is likely to get better wouldn't even consider resigning Johnson at any price.
Gerry - Friday, August 02 2013 @ 10:19 PM EDT (#277514) #
JP Arencibia said today that Johnson has tendinitis in his knee.
Magpie - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 12:08 AM EDT (#277515) #
Dave Perkins is retiring over at the Star - he worked the baseball beat back in the early 90s, and if he were working it today... well, he wouldn't hesitate for a microsecond to describe whatever he thought might be wrong with Arencibia's game. And the next day, he'd be at Arencibia's locker saying "You got anything to say about that?"
Mike Forbes - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 01:49 AM EDT (#277516) #
The Blue Jays have done it! The 9 man pen is here! Redmond sent down, Brad Lincoln called up.
Thomas - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 02:19 AM EDT (#277517) #
You think that the GM won't cut bait on Emilio Bonifacio is going to put Josh Johnson on the DL with a phantom injury?
Thomas - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 02:24 AM EDT (#277518) #
And that doesn't even consider the optics of the move, which are terrible.
John Northey - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 02:46 AM EDT (#277519) #
Why not? Phantom injuries don't lose the player, and the way he is pitching why would you keep pushing him out there every 5 days?  If it cuts his value this winter then all the better as I suspect at this point AA would love to see JJ have to accept under $1 mil for next year.
scottt - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 07:11 AM EDT (#277520) #
If he plays for less than 13M it won't be with the Blue Jays.
scottt - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 07:17 AM EDT (#277521) #
Redmont ran out of pixie dust. Happ pitched last night and still doesn't look ready. He issued too many walks and couldn't complete the 5th inning.
Thomas - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 09:26 AM EDT (#277522) #
Phantom injuries don't lose the player, and the way he is pitching why would you keep pushing him out there every 5 days? If it cuts his value this winter then all the better as I suspect at this point AA would love to see JJ have to accept under $1 mil for next year.

Because why does it matter if the Jays lose every game they play the rest of the season (aside from fan interest, but that's going to suffer anyway)?

And if you want to resign Johnson on the cheap, you're only going to do that by having him go out there every 5th day and continuing to stink.

Let's say you're Josh Johnson. You enter the years with hopes of signing something like a $100 million/6 year contract. You bomb and reach the lowest point of your value. You get hurt and, when you're healthy, you stink. Now, you're at the lowest point of your value. Instead of sending you back out there where you hope you could string off 5 or 6 good starts in a row to rebuild a little value, even if only for a one-year contract, the GM of the team you're on puts you on the DL for the rest of the year with a fake injury and doesn't let you rebuild your value even a little.

And you think this player would voluntarily resign with that team? If I was Josh Johnson, I'd sign for 29 other teams but not that one.

Magpie - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 09:39 AM EDT (#277523) #
Poor Josh. His season is starting to resemble Snuffy's triumphant return to the sea.
Chuck - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 10:10 AM EDT (#277524) #
If I was Josh Johnson, I'd sign for 29 other teams but not that one.

What are the rules here? If the Jays do not offer a QO, are they eligible to immediately pursue Johnson along with the 29 other teams?

I think Johnson will certainly get a number of lowball one-year offers to reestablish his worth. I don't know the man from Adam so this is idle speculation, but it would be difficult to imagine him wanting to coming back here, even if he is allowed to stay in the rotation and even if he suddenly starts performing well. He might prefer the idea of a fresh start, especially if he blames some of his failure (and I'm not saying that I know that he does) on the organization or the team on the field.
JohnL - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 10:47 AM EDT (#277525) #

And the next day, he'd be at Arencibia's locker saying "You got anything to say about that?

That's the one thing I most clearly remember about Perkins. When the Jays traded for Tony Fernandez in June 1993, Perkins wrote a blistering column, asking (I think in almost these words) "What the hell were the Blue Jays thinking? Fernandez symbolized all that was wrong with the old under-achieving, bad attitude Blue Jays".

I think it was before Fernandez's 2nd game, and first home game, that Perkins went up to him and asked "Do you have anything to say to me?"

Don't know if he did, but he did go 3 for 6, 1 HR, 2 2B & 5 RBI. Did OK the rest of that season too. Of course, if he brought any of the old Tony back with him, he would have been thrown out trying to stretch one of those doubles to a triple.

Magpie - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 11:07 AM EDT (#277526) #
Redmond's rotation spot comes up on Wednesday, the day before the off day - this team can't get anything to work out, can it? - which means they can't skip it. I'm sure they won't bring Rogers back on short rest. It's actually Happ's scheduled day, so maybe that's when he makes his return. Who knows.
smcs - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 11:42 AM EDT (#277528) #
What are the rules here? If the Jays do not offer a QO, are they eligible to immediately pursue Johnson along with the 29 other teams?

Pretty sure, yes. He would be a free agent with no compensation going to the Jays if he were to sign elsewhere. I'd imagine veterans (Mark DeRosa-types) who aren't worth the QO would not be tendered, and then could re-sign with the same team.

However, I doubt they will qualify him because they should have a pretty good handle on his market before the QO has to be submitted. Free agents have 5 days following the end of the World Series to talk to teams, and gauge interest on pretty much every level, except for salary. Teams don't have to submit the Qualifying Offers until 10 days after the World Series.

If the Jays do qualify him, and he accepts it, they can cut him in Spring Training and be on the hook for a portion -- roughly 1/6th or 1/4th -- of the total salary (which the did to Reed Johnson years ago). The amount they are on the hook for depends on how far before the regular season they cut him.

My bet is the Jays offer him an incentive/option-laden deal with low guaranteed money in year 1, and he doesn't get close to the QO.
Gerry - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 12:40 PM EDT (#277530) #
Unless someone is injured Redmond cannot be recalled for 15 days.
uglyone - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 01:10 PM EDT (#277533) #
Silver Linings:

Brett Lawrie Since Return: 67pa, .254/.328/.458/.786
Brett Lawrie Last 11 Games: 43pa, .324/.395/.568/.963
Richard S.S. - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 01:14 PM EDT (#277534) #
As a Qualifying Offer will be around $14.0 MM. Every single Free Agent Toronto has this year will accept it. Why, because it's much, much more money that they would get normally.

A.A. forgot/didn't take into consideration the "new money" available from the new TV Contract. With approximately $30.0 MM in additional revenue available every Team can sign 1 or 2 huge Contracts this off season. The 'prices' he wouldn't pay this July are the new norm. If you don't pay it, you get nothing.

Dickey and Buehrle are locks to return and two Starters will begin the Season in the Bullpen. The mandatory Top Pitcher acquisition(s) means only 1 and possibly two Starting spots are open. Josh Johnson has to be better than any one else we have to return. If he can't be that good, Goodbye!

scottt - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 01:31 PM EDT (#277535) #
Weber maybe? Or Wang. I don't see Jenkins getting the call.



Gerry - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 01:54 PM EDT (#277536) #
Happ and Drabek are on the same schedule as Redmond. Weber pitches today, if he takes the mound you can rule him out.
scottt - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 02:22 PM EDT (#277538) #
Unless they limit him to 80 pitches and bring him in short rest.
Thomas - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 02:39 PM EDT (#277540) #
I agree, Chuck. I don't think it's likely he returns in any case.

I'm just saying there's no way he returns if you stick him on the DL with a phantom injury. Zero percent chance.

jerjapan - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 04:05 PM EDT (#277543) #
If the Jays do qualify him, and he accepts it, they can cut him in Spring Training and be on the hook for a portion -- roughly 1/6th or 1/4th -- of the total salary (which the did to Reed Johnson years ago). The amount they are on the hook for depends on how far before the regular season they cut him.

So they get the draft pick in this scenario?  Wouldn't a first round comp pick by worth the nearly 3 million dollars, estimating roughly?  that means JJ gets close to 3 mil, and he's then a free agent in spring training.  that 3 million dollar buyout, plus whatever incentive laden contract he could get, might make that option attractive to him.


Richard S.S. - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 05:48 PM EDT (#277546) #
No. The only way to get a draft pick is for Johnson to turn down/not accept the Qualifying Offer, and have another sign him. The best offer he'll get is $5.0-6.0 MM with incentives/bonuses to earn. Why re-sign Johnson?
Richard S.S. - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 06:12 PM EDT (#277547) #
Nothing A.A. does make sense any more. Needing front-line quality Starting Pitching was a priority. Both Jake Peavy and Bud Norris were better than any Pitcher in our system right now. He complained of the cost and runs out another retread/AAAA/mistake to tax the Bullpen even more.

Happ is really struggling lately so he will be recalled. Drabek isn't ready, still inning limited at 3-ish, not that it will stop a desperate G.M. doing something stupid. Who gets called up will be a surprise, just not a pleasant one.

Even though a 40 HR hitter is worth gold on your Team, without a # 1 Starter, you're just spinning your wheels.
greenfrog - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 09:28 PM EDT (#277552) #
Excellent start by Peavy for the Red Sox tonight (in Fenway). Cherington's fine 2013 as Boston's GM continues. Should be a great pennant / wild card race in the AL East this year.
Magpie - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 09:47 PM EDT (#277553) #
[Anthopoulos] complained of the cost

Well, Boston gave up Jose Iglesias, among other assets, to get Peavy. Would you really have included Lawrie as part of a package for Peavy? I'd have to think pretty hard about doing that, and I'm not even that much of a Lawrie fan.
Magpie - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 10:01 PM EDT (#277555) #
without a # 1 Starter, you're just spinning your wheels.

I don't know why you keep saying that, there being approximately one hundred years of evidence that teams win championships without a great starting pitcher rather often. The 1993 Blue Jays spring to mind.
Richard S.S. - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 10:09 PM EDT (#277556) #
Yes. Peavy's under contract for 2014 with a player option for 2015. If he gets us to the Postseason, it's worth it. Actually it'd be interesting to see who's healthier. He's a candidate for a QO after 2014 if option declined.
Magpie - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 10:25 PM EDT (#277557) #
I've always liked Peavy - not nearly as much as I used to, but he's okay. Since returning from his serious 2009 injury, he's been a league average inning eater (33-29, 4.10, ERA+ 104). That's certainly worth having, but at what price? This team already has enough trouble catching the ball. If you have to give up your best defensive player... it doesn't much matter who's pitching when every second ground ball turns into a base hit.

That said, it's obvious that Lawrie himself couldn't have been part of this particular package. Lawrie plus other assets is Toronto's closest equivalent to Jose Iglesias plus other assets. But Detroit certainly doesn't need a third baseman and they're probably going to need a shortstop very soon.
Magpie - Saturday, August 03 2013 @ 10:34 PM EDT (#277558) #
Buck and Tabby are worryied about Weaver throwing across his body, because pitchers who do that often end up hurting themselves. But those pitchers hurt themselves because their arm ends up slamming to a stop against their midsection. Weaver's arm swings right through, nice and free. He reminds me a little of a taller, skinnier Don Sutton.
Richard S.S. - Sunday, August 04 2013 @ 01:01 AM EDT (#277559) #
Nice to see we are recycling posts, why use more than one when you just update the first post each series. I do agree with Magpie on Lawrie. He makes Reyes better and that's worth keeping.

A.A. was discussing two deals that didn't move to a conclusion. Yet? He also said that no mention was made of the deals in the Press. That's the interesting part. Any guesses?
greenfrog - Sunday, August 04 2013 @ 03:50 AM EDT (#277560) #
Well, Boston gave up Jose Iglesias, among other assets, to get Peavy.

I actually like Iglesias more than most as an outstanding defensive glove-first SS (and I respect Dombrowski's abilities as a GM), but remember that the Red Sox have Xander Bogaerts waiting in the wings, a competitive major-league roster, and a robust farm system that was basically undented by the trade. Here's a sampling of what some well-regarded observers in the game have said (perhaps you have a different opinion):

Dave Cameron: "Love for Red Sox, like for Tigers, donít really like for White Sox. Theyíre basically betting big on Avisail Garcia, but from here, he looks like a tools guy who hasnít figured out how to hit yet."

Jeff Sullivan: "The Red Sox gained without losing much. Iglesias has generated a lot of attention, but heís no future superstar, and the prospects werenít high on any lists."

Keith Law: "The Red Sox get Peavy and Villarreal for a modest return, giving up a potential everyday shortstop and three long-shot minor leaguers, none of whom is likely to come back to bite them....[Iglesias's offensive ceiling is] an empty .260 to .270 average...as he has a compact, simple swing that produces contact but no power. He is, however, one of the two best defensive shortstops in baseball...."

Eric Karabell: "Iím not a big fan of either Avisail Garcia or Jose Iglesias, the other name players swapped in this trade....The Red Sox did well to move Iglesias while his value was where it was."
Thomas - Sunday, August 04 2013 @ 05:30 PM EDT (#277574) #

Iglesias is also quite valuable to Detroit because of Cabrera's limited range at 3B and the groundball tendencies of their pitching staff. Detroit is one team where his value may be even greater than it would otherwise be.

 

That being said, he's a non-factor at the plate and I don't think Boston will regret the loss too much. He's a more extreme version of Adam Everett, I think.

Game Thread 8/02 in Anaheim | 34 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.