Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine
The Jays have made a stack of September call-ups.  No shockers, but a few headscratchers.


Luis Perez - was on the 60 day DL, out since mid-last year when he had a 124 ERA+ in mostly low pressure situations. A LHP he will mainly be in low pressure games again I'm sure after his 9 2/3 IP 7 H 2 R/ER 4 BB 6 SO 0 HR in A+/AAA
Kyle Drabek - like Perez has been on the 60 day DL earlier but was recently optioned to AAA thus on the 40 man already.  Had a 90 ERA+ last year and looked poor often. 43 IP in A+/AA/AAA 32 H 15 R/ER (3.14 ERA) 6 BB 35 SO (easily his best BB rate in his career at any level) 5 HR.  Might be put into the rotation so the Jays get a full look at him.
Ricky Romero - was off the 40 man roster and for good reason - he sucked at all levels but A+ this season (and that was just 1 game). 5.78 ERA in AAA but 4.18 his last 4 games (trying to cherry pick to make him look good). No matter how you cut it though he has walked too many and not struck out enough to survive. I fear the Garfoose will be proven right yet again and we'll be seeing Romero off the 40 man once the season ends with no one having any interest.
Jeremy Jeffress - very effective in AAA with a 1.65 ERA in 27 1/3 IP, 22 H 6 R 5 ER 13 BB 28 SO 0 HR. Wildness is his curse and unless he can push it sub 4 BB per 9 IP he'll need that 0 HR rate to survive.
Mike Nickeas - a 3rd catcher, Canadian, has caught the knuckleball before, hits a bit better than me but not enough to be in the ML or AAA or AA ... 166/255/251 this year in Buffalo in 200 PA. Hope he is strong defensively. Might get an inning or two in a 17 inning ball game but otherwise will be collecting a ML paycheque as catcher insurance.

Surprised to see Romero and Jeffress as Romero has pitched very poorly. Jeffress has been effective but wild and with the massive pen as is why bother? Perez & Drabek both made sense as both are recovering from injury and probably need more innings so might as well be up here. Nickeas is catcher insurance.

Others I expected were Sean Nolin (very effective in minors, had that terrible start up here, thought the Jays might want to give him another chance), and Drew Hutchison who was also recovering from injuries but he did have issues in AAA (6.63 ERA but his BB/9 was just 2.8 vs 9.5 SO/9 and 0.9 HR/9 suggesting that ERA was more luck than skill based).  I'd have loved to see Hutchison mixed with Drabek as a tandem starter team for September while Nolin would be mixed with whoever (ideally a RHP but could live with Romero) in another tandem to allow the Jays to see all of them for a month.  Instead we'll probably suffer through a few Romero blowouts, Drabek being pushed too hard, and Perez and Jeffress forgotten at the end of the bench as the 9th/10th guys on the staff (or further down even).

The next shoe to drop is who will be let go from the 40 man.  Johnson going to the 60 day DL is a lock, as might Cabrera and/or Rasmus (ending their seasons). Mauro Gomez is listed on the Jays site as designated for assignment and probably released (no idea why he was on the 40 man as it was). Other candidates are pitchers who haven't been called up - Thad Weber and Mickey Storey.  4 slots are needed so Gomez, Johnson, and maybe both Cabrera and Rasmus.  Weber was much better than Romero in AAA (2.71 ERA) and the ML, as was Storey (2.56 ERA in AAA) but both could be cut by the time most of you read this.
September Call-Ups | 37 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
China fan - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 05:16 AM EDT (#278648) #
Marcus Stroman was unhappy to hear that he wasn't being promoted to the majors this month. He tweeted the following last night:

"Season ended too soon though. Need to be playing in the month of September on the bigger stage! #neversatisfied"

ďThat feeling of being overlooked bothers me like nothing else. Iím hungry! If youíre not starving, I canít relate.Ē
krose - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 06:02 AM EDT (#278649) #
Reaction from the organization, to that tweet should be interesting and revealing.
Chuck - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 07:21 AM EDT (#278650) #
John, Luis Perez is a LHP.
ayjackson - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 07:31 AM EDT (#278651) #
Stroman shouldn't be surprised, as he is headed to AFL in October.

As for the 40-man, I had thought Drabek's rehab was over and he was on an option at AAA.
John Northey - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 08:33 AM EDT (#278652) #
Chuck - thanks and fixed - geez was that a dumb mistake - price of writing a piece when you are having trouble falling asleep.
John Northey - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 08:42 AM EDT (#278653) #
Good point ayjackson, and again it has been fixed regarding Drabek's status.

So of the 5 the Jays need to clear 4 slots.  Gomez and Johnson are two easy slots to clear, but Cabrera and Rasmus might not be as easy to toss into the dustbin of 2013 thus potentially costing the Jays Weber and Storey.

Right now the Jays have 5 LHP and 9 RHP on the roster. Add in the call-ups and you have another 3 LHP and 1 RHP totalling 8 LHP and 10 RHP on the staff.  Figuring Buehrle and Dickey are locks to hold their slots, while Happ, Redmond and Rogers fight to hold theirs we see a rotation of L/R/L/R/R.  Romero & Drabek both could claim slots while Perez and Jeffress are pure relievers.  So until guys lose spots we have a pen of 6 LHP and 7 RHP.  Thus losing 2 more relievers potentially in Weber and Storey won't exactly kill the Jays.  Not to mention 60 day DL'ers in Morrow, Ortiz, and Juan Perez (R/R/L).

FYI: Other DL'ed guys are Izturis (60), Bautista, Cabrera and Rasmus (all 15 day at the moment).
92-93 - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 08:42 AM EDT (#278654) #
"deciding to hold off on PH as there are few on the bench and he didn't want to burn one of them at this point, this situation"

Only the Blue Jays can find themselves shorthanded offensively IN SEPTEMBER.
Gerry - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 09:28 AM EDT (#278655) #

I am not surprised that Nolin and Stroman were not added.  As mentioned they are headed to the AFL.  Adding Stroman would burn a 40 man roster spot, AA can keep it to save an extra player from the rule 5 draft.  Finally I don't think that either Nolin or Stroman are in the mix for an opening day starter spot for 2014.  I see both of them as insurance in AAA.

Drew Hutchison has not been pitching all that well in AAA.  Some pitchers are not fully recovered from TJ until their second season after the surgery.  With so many pitchers in Toronto they probably felt that Hutchison would benefit from the rest.  Luis Perez is another guy without much success in his rehab, his use will be interesting.

With all these pitchers the Jays could make Mike Green happy and use some tandem starters.  Drabek has not been pitching much more than four innings.  They could give him 4 and Ricky 4.  The most interesting aspect of the call ups to me is how will Romero be used?  Will they use him as a starter or in the bullpen?

China fan - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 10:20 AM EDT (#278656) #
"...deciding to hold off on PH as there are few on the bench and he didn't want to burn one of them at this point, this situation...."

The Jays were definitely not shorthanded in that situation. It was the 8th inning and they had Lind, Davis, DeRosa and Kawasaki on the bench. Gibbons chose to let Santos hit, so it had to be some kind of favor to Santos in a meaningless game. It certainly can't be blamed on a lack of bench options.
China fan - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 10:26 AM EDT (#278658) #
"....Romero & Drabek both could claim slots..."

I'd like to see Drabek get a lot of work this month. He might be able to pitch for only 4 or 5 innings at a time, but it's important to find out if he's a rotation option for 2014. If he looks good against major-league hitters, it's one less starting pitcher for Anthopoulos to acquire in the off-season.

As for Romero: I can see him getting a couple of starts, but I'm also curious to see whether he looks better from the bullpen. Maybe the bullpen is a way of easing him back into major-league competition without getting him blown out in the beginning.

It's also interesting to see McGowan talking about his goal of being a starting pitcher in 2014. Yes, yes, everyone will be skeptical, but let's admit that he's done a lot more in 2013 than anyone expected. He could surprise us again next year. If he can stay healthy, he's certainly got the arsenal of pitches and the sheer stuff to make him a useful starter again.
bpoz - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 10:26 AM EDT (#278659) #
Romero gets to see this call up and use of a roster spot as a positive factor, in that the Jays still believe in him.

Stroman being disappointed is fine. He had good year, has confidence in himself and will probably win a few awards this year.
China fan - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 10:32 AM EDT (#278661) #
By my count, there are only 39 players on the 40-man roster at the moment (excluding all of those on the 60-day DL). So the Jays need to clear only 3 spots. Johnson goes to the 60-day list for one of the spots. Gomez and Storey would be my picks for the final two spots to be cleared, although I suppose Weber could be dropped instead of Storey if the Jays somehow like Storey better.
China fan - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 10:34 AM EDT (#278662) #
Also, I believe the Jays have publicly stated that Cabrera will not be back this season. So it's easy to put him on the 60-day DL, and then they can keep both Weber and Storey.
John Northey - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 11:50 AM EDT (#278665) #
Next year will be interesting in the rotation and pen that is for sure.
Rotation locks: Dickey and Buehrle
Rotation likely: Morrow
Rotation death match for 2 slots: Happ, Romero, McGowan, Drabek, Rogers, Redmond, Jenkins, Nolin, Hutchison, Stroman, ...

Bullpen locks: Janssen, Cecil, Loup, Delabar, Santos
Bullpen death match for 2 slots: Lincoln, Wagner, Luis Perez, Juan Perez, Jeffress, assorted guys who lose the rotation fight, others we do not know.

Given the past two years we should expect 3 or 4 guys to start 2014 on the DL (sigh).  AA will also probably sign 1,000 relievers to AAA deals. Ideally a true ace is added but who is affordable for this team in prospects and/or salary?
John Northey - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 12:15 PM EDT (#278667) #
China fan: I don't think it was a favor but a choice.  Lind is a HR threat and with a lead no need to use him. Davis is your pinch runner and again, with a lead why use him? That leaves L/R combo Kawasaki and DeRosa.  Since it is a RH pitcher you leave DeRosa out of the equation leaving you with Kawasaki who is your only shortstop backup with a gimpy superstar at short who you might have to pull or who could easily hurt himself again.  Again, with a 2 run lead why use your only solid defensive backup infielder who can't hit anyways?

Now, if the Jays had a few other hitters up - another infielder who can cover short for example and another power hitter - then you hit easily.  Of course Goins could shift to SS and DeRosa to 2B if needed, but that isn't a good situation and you'd rather not burn options when you don't need to.  Given the Jays have had a few loooong games this year I can easily see why you'd let the former SS hit in that situation (1 out, 2 run lead late in the game, no one on base).  If someone was on base, or the Jays were behind, or it was leading off the inning then Kawasaki or Lind would've been appropriate (depending).  Again, add another power hitter and another infielder to the roster and there is no debate and you hit for Santos.  But that wasn't the case and each player left had a clear responsibility should the game keep going (be it power, speed, RH/LH pinch hitter).
greenfrog - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 12:41 PM EDT (#278668) #
Gerry, what do you see as a realistic ETA for Nolin and Stroman?
Thomas - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 12:44 PM EDT (#278669) #

John, are you saying that you wouldn't pinch-hit Lind for the pitcher in a game in an NL ballpark simply because you have the lead? Or DeRosa, for that matter, simply because the reliever is a righty?  (I haven't reviewed yesterday's box score in detail, so there could be more to this that I am missing.) If so, you and I would manage a game differently.

I think it's far more likely this was a favour than some sort of tactical decision and, if it was the latter, it makes me think less of Gibbons as an in-game tactitian.

Gerry - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 01:05 PM EDT (#278670) #

I see Stroman and Nolin being ready in the middle of 2014.

Drew Hutchison could be an option for the AFL.  Pitchers often get injured and sometimes they hit limits and leave early.  If there was an opening I would give Hutchison a chance to pitch a little, after resting for September.

John Northey - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 01:36 PM EDT (#278672) #
I see tactical all over it myself.  You have a 2 run lead, 2 innings to go, just 4 guys on the bench with a lot in the pen.  The bench options, as I said, were basically one of each type - 1 power hitter (Lind), 1 speed demon (Davis), plus 1 RH and 1 LH bat both a bit weak but useful if you need a baserunner.  At that moment, with 1 out and no one on base, nothing much was likely to result in a run and a run at that point would help but jump your odds (high jumps are going from a 1 run lead to 2 runs, moving into the lead, tying the game or getting within one).  With the way things have gone for the Jays lately a higher leverage situation was likely to occur in the 9th or 10th (if needed).  No logic in using Lind there as a single/double would dictate you use another bench option (Davis) then you are down to 2 guys. With a RH pitcher you wouldn't use Davis or DeRosa leaving just Kawasaki and his poor bat which isn't a lot better than just letting the former SS hit.

In 2014 the Jays might want to look at seeing if Santos can hit and/or field well enough to be used in games where he isn't available to pitch.  In a NL park that could be very useful - maybe just once every couple of years but why not use the option if it is there?  Much like Dave Stieb and Jimmy Key being used as pinch runners way back when.

whiterasta80 - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#278673) #
John I've had that thought myself (Santos being an emergency option for the bench). If he had demonstrated any sort of health in the last 2 years I might be more inclined to consider it.
Chuck - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 03:44 PM EDT (#278674) #

At that moment, with 1 out and no one on base, nothing much was likely to result in a run and a run at that point would help but jump your odds

To me, that's like saving your good china for... never. Lots of options other than Santos. Silly not to use one. It's not like it was the 4th inning or something.

China fan - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 04:04 PM EDT (#278675) #
Santos hasn't been a hitter since 2008. Even then, in several seasons at the AAA level, he posted a mere .600 OPS. Five years after his hitting career ended, there's no way he would have been a better hitting option than Lind or Davis. In a meaningful game, with the Jays holding only a 2-run lead, this would have been inexcusable. Instead I assume it was something like giving John McDonald a game in the outfield -- just to cheer up a guy in a meaningless game.
Mike Green - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 04:13 PM EDT (#278676) #
I see Stroman and Nolin being ready in the middle of 2014.

Stroman has 20 high minors starts and Nolin has 23.  I would love for Nolin to get 1/2 a year in major league long relief and he can do so anytime, in my opinion, although 5 more starts in Buffalo would not hurt.  I concur about Stroman's need for roughly 10 more high minors starts.

As for tandem starting in September, it would be fine if they did but really not significant.  The club would have to make a commitment to do it from the outset of a season for it to matter (Dickey, Buehrle and 3 tandems, I guess).  You'd split Dickey and Buehrle in the rotation because you'd hope to get 8+ innings from the tandems.  I can't see Gibbons as the manager if you were going to do this. 
John Northey - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 04:51 PM EDT (#278678) #
He wasn't a better hitting option, just that using your bullets when you are ahead is not the best strategy.  Lind is far more useful if a runner is on or if you are tied/down one.  Davis & DeRosa are RH hitters with strong platoon spreads. Kawasaki is a poor hitter. So why use one of those 4 when the situation didn't demand it?  It would be like saying 'we have a LH pitcher in the pen, why not use him then go to a RHP for the next batter, then another LHP for the next' when you have a 2 run lead.  Yeah, in a playoff game you might. But regular season? Why over manage (unless you are Tony LaRussa who always loved to do that)? 

Like I said, if it was a playoff game, or if the Jays were thisclose to the playoffs you do everything to get every run you can. But it is a blown out season, you have a 2 run lead, and the 4 guys on the bench all have extreme limits to their skill sets that suggest the use of one might force the use of another to get through the inning (Lind gets on, must use Davis to run or you aren't being serious about that extra run).  Lind and Kawasaki were the only real options any manager would use then and in a PH situation it is Lind only otherwise you are using guys for the sake of using guys. Even if the pitcher was Janssen or someone else who hasn't hit since high school you still let him hit there as there was very little point unless you A) felt there was no chance for extra innings and B) felt massive pressure to win or else.  I just don't see why it had to be a gift to Santos - and what the point of a gift to him of a PA would mean to anyone as he has been a pitcher only for awhile and he just got a few outs against the team that drafted him.  McDonald in the outfield was to show he could do it and yes, as a favor, to help him in free agency. Santos isn't a free agent anytime soon and hitting won't help him then anyways thus the same rules aren't there.  Plus I don't think Gibbons has ever shown that tendency unlike Cito Gaston who regularly showed it.
John Northey - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 04:59 PM EDT (#278679) #
Oooo.... 3 tandems.... now that'd be fun.

Dickey, then Morrow/Romero, then Buehrle, then McGowan/Happ, then Nolin/Rogers with Redmond one of many options to step in if needed.  8 pitchers used up there, leaving a 5 man bullpen.  All tandems are R/L mixes and ideally you'd mix and match power and finesse too.  Pen would have Janssen, Loup, Delabar, Cecil, Santos with a cast of 1000's in AAA ready to step in.  Just 3 times Dickey was sub-6 IP, Buehrle was sub 6 IP 6 times.  Neither was under 4 IP ever this year (knock on wood).  Ensure tandem part 2 each time started an inning rather than coming in mid-inning to help ensure best results.  Shoot for 5 IP from whoever starts with a max of 6 no matter what. 

Sadly, it would flop by June probably as some pitchers would be doing well leading to them being left in longer and longer while the other half of the tandem shifted to more bullpen work.  The pressure to go to a traditional method even if the team was winning would be enormous.
China fan - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 06:04 PM EDT (#278683) #
"....Rotation death match for 2 slots: Happ, Romero, McGowan, Drabek, Rogers, Redmond, Jenkins, Nolin, Hutchison, Stroman...."

This is an impressively long list, but it's flawed by the traditional Jays problem: it's got a lot of quantity and not so much quality. (The Jays bullpen once had the same problem, but now it's got both quality and quantity.) Most of the names on John's list would seem to be best suited as 6th starters and depth options and injury replacements and swingmen.

I'm hoping that one or two of the younger pitchers -- perhaps Drabek -- can leap forward and seize the opportunity. If the Jays have a solid group of 4 starters in the rotation, maybe the 5th starter could be a Happ or a McGowan. But ultimately I think Anthopoulos will just have to go out there and acquire another one or two good starters.
jerjapan - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 06:07 PM EDT (#278684) #
I'm still a big AA fan, but I remain puzzled as to why we wasted an option on Nolin if he was only going to get one start.  Reminds my of Dyson last year, which is still a sore spot for me. 
Thomas - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 06:27 PM EDT (#278685) #

the 4 guys on the bench all have extreme limits to their skill sets that suggest the use of one might force the use of another to get through the inning (Lind gets on, must use Davis to run or you aren't being serious about that extra run). 

Really? You aren't serious about an extra run if you don't use Lind? There's no middle ground that you'd want an extra run and would want a far better hitter than Santos up there but that you don't want an extra run at the expense of burning your only outfield reserve?

And I'm not sure why you keep talking about when Lind would be more useful....Sure, he'd be more useful in other game situations. But, it's not like using Lind today means he can't pinch-hit tomorrow if that situation arises. Lind would be much more useful than Santos in that particular at-bat in terms of getting on base and scoring a run, which was the goal for whoever batted in that lineup position.

Thomas - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 06:28 PM EDT (#278686) #
Also, I've never heard of pinch-hitting for the pitcher, let alone with a full bench, described as overmanaging before.
John Northey - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 06:35 PM EDT (#278687) #
Agreed China fan on the quantity over quality.  A few have had 'ace' potential before (Romero, McGowan, Drabek) while a few have hope still (Nolin, Hutchison, Stroman) but really they should all be fighting for one slot not two. Morrow also should be fighting for his slot with this crew rather than handed a slot due to the old 'why not' rule. 

The rotation is very expensive no matter what in 2014 - Dickey $12 mil, Buehrle $18 mil, Romero $7.5 mil (same in 15, $600k buyout for 16), Morrow $8 mil (plus $1 mil buyout for 2015), Happ $5.2 (plus $200k buyout).  Plus McGowan is $1.5 ($500k buyout) if you want to factor that in = $52.2 mil plus buyouts that could cost another $1.7 mil in 2014's budget.  And still no ace but lots of guys who once were or were expected to be.

Can the Jays realistically add another $20-25 mil to get a top free agent (Jamie Shields) or $10-20 for another 'might work' guy (Lincecum, Halladay) or less for a 'who knows' (Johnson, many others)?  Halladay might be in the cheap bin (5.73 ERA in 11 IP since returning) but the point is still there.  Will be a tough winter for the Jays this year - one more starter (at least) and a second baseman are the goals, maybe a LF too.  How to do it when I figure they have no more than $20 mil available (stab in the dark) and few prospects ready to trade?
Chuck - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 07:37 PM EDT (#278688) #
This is an impressively long list, but it's flawed by the traditional Jays problem: it's got a lot of quantity and not so much quality.

And while quantity does at least give you the potential for a few nuggets to reveal themselves, it often comes at the expense of a number of starts first having been frittered away on the non-nuggets. I'd sooner have quality in small numbers than quantity of meh.

Mike Green - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 09:24 PM EDT (#278692) #
I'm hoping that one or two of the younger pitchers -- perhaps Drabek -- can leap forward and seize the opportunity. If the Jays have a solid group of 4 starters in the rotation, maybe the 5th starter could be a Happ or a McGowan. But ultimately I think Anthopoulos will just have to go out there and acquire another one or two good starters.

He tried to get three this off-season.  That didn't work out so well. What percentage of the Jays' budget during the Anthopoulous regime has been spent on pitching?  Has he ever in a season got bang for buck? I don't think so, but maybe I am too fussy.  For myself, I wish that he'd save his scarce dollars for more obvious position player needs.


greenfrog - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 10:05 PM EDT (#278693) #
Anthopoulos was reportedly a finalist for Latos, so his instincts regarding starting pitching aren't completely wrong.

Given that last off-season's acquisitions included Cabrera, Izturis and Bonifacio, one might question AA's ability to identify major-league ready positional player talent, too. (I'm not complaining about Lawrie and Rasmus, though.)

In retrospect, one of the biggest missed opportunities of last off-season was Russell Martin. He signed a 2/17 contract and is currently 4.2 bWAR for the contending Pirates. He would have been a huge (and economical) upgrade for the Jays at C for the team's "window of contention." Quite possibly the best move the Jays could have made last winter. A good catcher makes everyone better, as Pittsburgh is discovering.
92-93 - Tuesday, September 03 2013 @ 11:46 PM EDT (#278695) #
"He wasn't a better hitting option, just that using your bullets when you are ahead is not the best strategy."

There's some merit to this if you want to defend Gibbons from a tactical perspective (which I actually don't think it had anything to do with). MLB PHs are getting on base only 13% more often than MLB Ps this year, with obviously a whack of SLG thrown in. Santos, as a former infielder, is probably a bit better at the plate than the average pitcher. It's not the worst move in the world to hold back some bullets for later in the game in case you need them instead of seeking a marginal improvement with nobody on base and a 2 run lead.
whiterasta80 - Wednesday, September 04 2013 @ 12:12 AM EDT (#278698) #
Remind me again why it matters when we score that run? "Saving bullets" seems a little ridiculous on a team with positional flexibility (catcher being the obvious exception). I agree it was a favour that was just justifiable enough to allow.
China fan - Wednesday, September 04 2013 @ 08:49 AM EDT (#278702) #
In case anyone is still interested in that 40-man roster question: the Jays put Cabrera and Johnson on the 60-day DL and designated Gomez for assignment. That's all they had to do. The Rule 5 draft, however, might be more interesting as all those players come off the 60-day DL and have to be protected. By my count, there are now six Jays on the 60-day DL and they'll all have to be added back to the 40-man roster in the off-season (with the exception probably of Ortiz).
James W - Wednesday, September 04 2013 @ 08:51 AM EDT (#278703) #
Josh Johnson also won't have to be, so that lowers the roster crunch by another one.
September Call-Ups | 37 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.