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Usually trips to Tampa Bay don't go well for this team...


We shall see. The Bluebirds managed to split their ten game homestand with a sweep of the Orioles (satisfying!), and now head off on a ten game road trip that will see them go to Tampa Bay (starting tonight), Boston on Monday, then Cleveland for four. Jose Bautista will not play tonight and might not appear at all this weekend with a sore shoulder. Josh Thole is back and will catch R.A. Dickey tonight. There's a good chance Michael Saunders will make his Blue Jay debut at some point in this series also.

The 8-8 Rays meanwhile expect first-baseman James Loney to come off the disabled list and play Friday night. Tampa has a host of players out with injuries at the moment, including reliever Jake McGee, starting pitchers Alex Cobb and Matt Moore, outfielder/something-er-other John Jaso and some guy named C.J. Riefenhauser. (I can't ignore a name that awesome).

Rays Player To Watch

Outfielder Steven Souza is off to a fabulous start, leading the team with four home runs and eleven RBIs with a tidy .268/.349/.536 batting line. He is also prone to the strikeout (23 in 56 ABs) so hopefully, ya know, that second thing is more common than that first thing. To the pitching matchups!


Friday: R.A. Dickey (0-1, 3.26) v. Drew Smyly (NR *first 2015 start) -- 7:10 ET
Saturday: Daniel Norris (1-1, 6.08) v. To Be Determined Man! (infinity divided by 0) -- 6:10 ET
Sunday: Mark Buehrle (3-0, 4.00) v. Chris Archer (2-2, 1.07) -- 1:10 ET

Have at it.
 
Weekend Thread: To The Tropicana Thunder Dome | 91 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
China fan - Friday, April 24 2015 @ 06:32 PM EDT (#299893) #
According to a Barry Davis tweet, Anthopoulos watched Felix Doubront pitch a couple of innings in Florida today.  Reportedly he looked good and he'll next be progressing to five innings. 

I get the feeling that the Jays are definitely casting around for that possible 6th starter if they decide to put Sanchez back into the bullpen. There's a lot of talk about Scott Copeland.  There's old friend Chad Jenkins being stretched out and taught new a pitch.  There is potentially Doubront.  There's also Randy Wolf, although he seems to be less of a favorite of the brain trust.  I'd have to think that the Jays know that they need starter options, and Estrada isn't enough.

Hodgie - Friday, April 24 2015 @ 08:13 PM EDT (#299895) #
Nice to see Travis continuing to take, not so nice seeing D.A. serve up a Dickey special. Subjectively it feels like Dickey gives up an inordinate number of runs immediately after being handed leads.
Gerry - Friday, April 24 2015 @ 10:20 PM EDT (#299897) #
Tolleson DFA'd. He didn't go out on a high note.
jerjapan - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 08:39 AM EDT (#299898) #
DFAing Tolleson is the right decision IMO.  If we are indeed going with the AAAA vet shuttle as our depth, calling up and demoting players based on short-term needs, the worst thing we could do would be to fall in love with a Tolleson-type at the expense of those short term needs.  They are called replacement level for a reason.  
Chuck - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 08:53 AM EDT (#299899) #
Missed the game. Not a bad thing as it turns out. Dickey swapped walks for homeruns. Maybe time to swap back.

The team is one game shy of the 1/9 mark in the schedule and only one SP (MB) has an ERA lower than 5.00 and only one (DH) has a FIP lower than 5.00. That's not going to play long term, nor will the 5 1/2 innings per start the SP are averaging.

The migration from 3 outfielders and an infielder masquerading as an outfielder to 4 outfielders is long past due. Tolleson was expendable. He'll be an Oriole soon enough.

It will be interesting to see the ramifications of Navarro's injury and Saunders' return. On paper, it should mean more playing time for Smoak and less for Pillar, respectively, but we'll see. The team is allowing more than 5 runs per game. Gibbons might feel the need to prioritize defense, perhaps sticking with Pillar and easing Saunders back as a DH.

John Northey - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 09:04 AM EDT (#299900) #
I"d be using Saunders as DH as often as possible for now to protect that knee.  Maybe a rotation - Saunders & EE always play while Pillar/Smoak roatate in and out.  both Smoak & PIllar being switch hitters keeps away from the easy platoon method but there are probably ways to decide if OF or IF defense is more important for a particular game.
Mike Green - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 10:05 AM EDT (#299903) #
From the silver linings department, last night's blowout gave Gibbons a comfortable opportunity to rest all of the high leverage relievers on the club. 

I am not too surprised by last night's game.  I suspected that Tolleson might be in left-field and that at some point the use of infielders in the outfield on a regular basis would catch up to the club.  Fortunately, that is coming to an end.  On a related note, Jose Bautista's reaction to the ball thrown behind him was, I thought, quite wrong.  He basically took the attitude that it didn't matter what the intent of the pitcher was.  In the particular case, it was a Rule 5 pitcher who had obvious control issues and who Showalter was obviously reluctant to use except in a blowout.  Bautista, I thought, projected his frustration with Darren O'Day (with whom he has a longer history) onto a raw rookie.  That is not cool.  When Sanchez threw behind an Oriole batter, the O's recognized that he has control issues and that there was no intent.  They kept quiet.  I hope that Bautista, who is obviously a bright guy, will learn from this.
uglyone - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 10:13 AM EDT (#299904) #
gibby got cocky last night. a game where you're missing both bautista and saunders is not the game where you willingly choose to sacrifice even more offense by sitting martin and letting thole face a lefty, AND weaken your defense dramatically by downgrading from martin to thole at C, smoak to encarnacion at 1B, Donaldson to Valencia at 3B, and sticking Tolleson in LF. That's a serious defensive downgrade in HALF the positions on the field, and a serious downgrade in a spot in the order when you're already down 2 starting bats.

gibby intentionally put out the worst possible 9 he could last night, and he just can't be doing that, imo.
jerjapan - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 12:01 PM EDT (#299905) #
Possibly old news for many Bauxites, but I was wondering why such an elite player as Donaldson took so long to establish himself as a regular and I came across this article:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10675670/oakland-josh-donaldson-beat-all-odds-become-star-third-baseman-espn-magazine

He's quite the driven guy and has overcome his fair share of adversity.  This is the 'tarp play' mentioned in the article - amazing stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCXFtb1wiv0

ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 12:56 PM EDT (#299906) #
Mike, I agree with your criticism of Bautista's actions. I thought his reaction was histrionic and probably a bit embarrassing for most of his teammates. I thought Jones called it well when he pointed out the kid pitching was in low A the previous year and had control issues rather than an intent to harm him. That Bautista then embarrassed himself further by hurting his arm with his throw to first was a bit karmic.
ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 01:04 PM EDT (#299907) #
ugly, I had to read your post twice to determine whether you were being ironic. I'm not in general a Gibbons fan, but I thought resting Martin and DH'ing Donaldson made good sense in the circumstances. The rest of the lineup flowed from those two decisions. And when you lose 12-3, Thole vs. a lefty seems pretty minor, to me at least.
cruzin - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 01:12 PM EDT (#299908) #
"gibby got cocky last night......

gibby intentionally put out the worst possible 9 he coud last night, and he just can't be doing that, imo."

No if Gibbons intentionally put out the worst possible 9, it would've included Goins in place of someone else.

His moves are defensible even if you don't agree with them. Team apparently got into Tampa at 4am so taking that into consideration and how much the regulars have played...

Thole in Martin's place make sense since Dickey is pitching and even Martin has said it does take more out of him catching Dickey vs others on the staff.

So aside from Thole vs Martin, you're basically bashing Gibbons for playing musical chairs and replacing Smoak with Tolleson? He obviously wanted Tolleson's bat vs the lefty last night which is logical. But once you try to get Tolleson's bat in place of Smoak's, you start having to make changes unless you wanted Tolleson's bat in the DH spot. Considering Donaldson has played 10 straight on turf which he hasn't had to in the past and now coming to the only other stadium that has turf. It makes his decision to rest Donaldson's legs while keeping his hot bat in the lineup, by being in the DH spot is perfectly acceptable as well.

Sorry, don't see your beef with the batting lineup or fielding position given the situation the Blue Jays faced going into the game last night.
uglyone - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 02:05 PM EDT (#299909) #
if martin and donaldson need a rest, imo it would have made much more sense to rest them today or tommorrow, since saunders and maybe bautista will be back in, and since thole would at least be facing an rhp instead of a lefty.

last night, with the team already shorthanded offensively with bautista and saunders out, he took out yet another good bat in martin and simply gave those at bats away with thole vs a lefty....and at the same team made the team significantly worse defensively at half the positions on the field.

and while in the end it might not have mattered thanks to dickey, at the same time all the defensive downgrades did have a negative impact - valencia made a poor throw to travis to ruin a DP, Encarnacion couldn't handle a tough throw at first to cost an out, while thole gave dickey his first passed ball of the year with runners on 1st and 2nd, moving them into scoring position and taking away the force outs with 2outs.

this is why the whole concept of thole on the team hurts us - because of this brainless need to play him whenever dickey starts, even when martin has shown he can catch him.

would have made us much better offensively and defensively yesterday and today to do something like this:

Friday:

SS Reyes
2B Travis
3B Donaldson
DH Encarnacion
C Martin
1B Valencia
LF Tolleson
RF Pillar
CF Pompey


Saturday:

SS Reyes
DH Donaldson
RF Bautista
1B Encarnacion
LF Saunders
2B Travis
CF Pompey
3B Goins/Valencia/Tolleson
C Thole
cruzin - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 02:30 PM EDT (#299910) #
"Friday:

SS Reyes
2B Travis
3B Donaldson
DH Encarnacion
C Martin
1B Valencia
LF Tolleson
RF Pillar
CF Pompey
"

Ok so now the issue becomes not half the positions but rather 2 of the positions unless you believe Valencia is significantly better than EE at 1B, which would still only be 3 positions not half.

As much as it might've sucked to give away 2 ABs having Thole face the lefty. This is significantly outweighed by having Martin catching a game Norris is starting instead of switching it up with Thole.
ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#299911) #
I see Pompey is listed in left for today's game, Pillar in center. Interesting.
JB21 - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 03:28 PM EDT (#299912) #
Jays release Ricky Romero.
Richard S.S. - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 03:37 PM EDT (#299913) #
Time to update the Site Header. Can't have someone who might be on another Team up there. Retired people work better, they don't change teams.
cruzin - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 03:41 PM EDT (#299914) #
"I see Pompey is listed in left for today's game, Pillar in center. Interesting."

Well that's literally out of left field lol

On a serious note, that's quite surprising even though I wouldn't have been surprised with Saunders in RF. The switch with Pillar and Pompey is surprising and maybe foreshadows a platoon or at least some significant time for Pillar in CF?


Chuck - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 03:45 PM EDT (#299915) #
both Smoak & Pillar being switch hitters

John, Pillar is not a switch-hitter.

Chuck - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 03:47 PM EDT (#299916) #
The switch with Pillar and Pompey is surprising

One of those two has looked quite tentative in the field and one has looked very confident. I think Pompey's future is as a CF, but perhaps Gibbons is trying to lower the demands on the young man for the time being.

uglyone - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 03:54 PM EDT (#299917) #
cruzin i do believe valencia is a bigtime upgrade defensively at 1b over ee, and even smoak.

i have a real problem intentionally making shorthanded lineups weaker....especially in this case when imo the "thole catches dickey" logic overruled much better reasoning.

but don't get me wrong i love gibbons in general. this isn't anything near as bad as the throwaway sunday lineups farrell used to play his whole bench in the same game, for example.
Richard S.S. - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 03:58 PM EDT (#299918) #
Pillar might have to play CF if Pompey gets hurt. A thinking person might assume he needs to play the occasional game there to stay sharp. Did someone forget?
ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 04:26 PM EDT (#299919) #
Jim Fanning is dead. First thing to mind was his depiction of Denis Boucher.
jerjapan - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 05:40 PM EDT (#299920) #
Ugly, why are the old schoolers so stoked on Smoak's defense?  Is it just those long arms?  Why do you like Valencia over Smoak?
Nigel - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 05:55 PM EDT (#299921) #
To quote Billy Beane - because he looks good in jeans. Smoak's looks the part of a good defensive 1B - he just isn't good. It's not clear to me that he's better thn EE. He may be but at best he's a minor upgrade.
Hodgie - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 06:38 PM EDT (#299922) #
"Smoak's looks the part of a good defensive 1B - he just isn't good. It's not clear to me that he's better than EE."

Just curious what you are basing this assessment on? To my untrained eyes Smoak has looked the part of an average first baseman.

BlueMonday - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 07:31 PM EDT (#299923) #
Quite a day for Canadian baseball. 'Gentleman Jim' Fanning dies. He was the first (and only) manager to take the Expo's to the playoffs. He wore many other hats for the Expo's over the years. A Canadian Baseball Hall of Famer, he was a regular at the yearly induction in St. Mary's. He'll be missed.

On the same day, the Jays have (for the 1st time in MLB history I think) 4 Canadians on their 25 man roster.
Mike Green - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 07:51 PM EDT (#299924) #
Norris' day is probably done.  That was a fine outing.

Smoak is better than Encarnacion at scooping.  He is slower though.

Nigel - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 07:51 PM EDT (#299925) #
The defensive metrics tell us that he is below average. I have watched him for years in Seattle - we get many Seattle games here in Vancouver. Seattle gave up on him as their 1B because he cannot hit as a RH batter and because he is below average defensively.
Chuck - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 07:54 PM EDT (#299926) #
Smoak is better than Encarnacion at scooping. He is slower though.

Smoak looks slower than Lind even. Almost Olerud slow.

Mike Green - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 07:58 PM EDT (#299927) #
Olerud had a quick first step though and was pretty good at getting balls in the hole and down the line on the ground (but not chasing pop flies).  Smoak's first step is slower than Olerud's, but maybe faster than Lind's. 
BlueJayWay - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 08:06 PM EDT (#299928) #
This was a very good start for Norris. Could have been 7 shutout innings if not for a blown call and bloop.
Magpie - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 08:21 PM EDT (#299929) #
Retired people work better, they don't change teams.

Agreed. Besides, after what happened to Aaron Hill's bat and Ricky Romero's arm, perhaps we'd best not mess with a current player...
Alex Obal - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 08:31 PM EDT (#299930) #
I nominate Gibbons.
Eephus - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 08:41 PM EDT (#299931) #
I nominate Gibbons

In all my years observing humans who manage baseball teams, I shall never understand the need to pull pitchers who are dominating just because they give up a bloop single. Illogical indeed.

Mike D - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 08:45 PM EDT (#299932) #
It was completely unforeseeable that failing to spend even one penny on bullpen acquisitions would have any kind of consequences on the field.
dan gordon - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 08:45 PM EDT (#299933) #
The back end of the Jays' bullpen needs help.

Very encouraging start by Norris.
Gerry - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 08:48 PM EDT (#299934) #
The pitcher with the zero ERA was pulled by Gibby to bring in Cecil to face a lefty. Lefty's are hitting .500 off Cecil this season. Then Cecil was pulled to bring in Castro. First hitters were hitting 5 for 8 off Castro. While those two changes were correct in the traditional sense they didn't recognize the current form of those pitchers.
Mike Green - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 08:49 PM EDT (#299935) #
It was strange. Saunders broke back on Longoria's bloop, or he would (I think) have had a decent shot at it.  A little rust is understandable. 

It may indeed be the case that Cecil had a slightly better chance than Osuna of retiring DeJesus.  There is however a more important long-term cost to this reliever usage.

Mike D - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 08:50 PM EDT (#299936) #
It's just appalling that the Jays could have the offensive firepower they do (and with Reyes/Bautista/Edwin/Martin slumping or hurt) in a down year for the AL East and to throw it away with a bullpen built on some combination of cheapness and disregard.
BlueJayWay - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 08:52 PM EDT (#299937) #
Overmanaged that right into a loss. No reason to pull Osuna there, and then once he did, no reason to pull Cecil. Buh.
Gerry - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 09:09 PM EDT (#299938) #
At the start of the season I thought Castro's command was excellent, he was consistently low in the zone. Over his last few appearances he has been much less in command, and like tonight, more up in the zone. Either he finds that command, or he cannot be the closer.
ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 09:23 PM EDT (#299939) #
in a down year for the AL East and to throw it away with a bullpen built on some combination of cheapness and disregard.

I don't think it was "built on some combination of cheapness and disregard". Sure, the Jays don't want to take Papelbon's ridiculous contract, or take expensive chances on guys that no one wants like Soriano. But I think Osuna for one, has been excellent. Perhaps better than the more expensive options you could name. But I don't think it's a bullpen that can be managed by rote - by taking Osuna out because the next hitter is left handed for example.Or Cecil for that matter. Osuna was throwing well. Very well. He struck out two and Longoria chipped a single. There was no need to use 3 pitchers that inning. But Gibbons over relies on lefty/right match ups, and pulled Osuna unnecessarily and Cecil unnecessarily. Most of the late inning blown leads have come from unnecessary pitching changes in the 8th, when Gibbons no doubt thinks he has the pen set up, makes all of his moves, and they don't work.
John Northey - Saturday, April 25 2015 @ 11:58 PM EDT (#299940) #
Well, our top corner is now very out of date as Romero was released today according to Shi Davidi.  Seems the Jays felt they weren't going to use him at all before his contract runs out so they figured might as well just write him off.
rtcaino - Sunday, April 26 2015 @ 01:10 AM EDT (#299941) #
For the record, I always thought olde tymers were the way to go - no curses, no duds. Several years ago I would have said Borders and Stieb. But now I would suggest Halladay on both sides.

The difficulty is that a classic banner seems more permanent. There is no more 'he just got released'.
TangledUpInBlue - Sunday, April 26 2015 @ 04:21 AM EDT (#299942) #
As Gerry mentions, Castro hasn't looked great this year. Going into the game, he had 7 Ks and 4 BBs in 9.1 IP; his FIP was 5.60, his xFIP 4.67. Shaky enough, anyway, that I don't think you really want to blow through Osuna and Cecil and leave Castro to get the remaining four outs (not to mention the possibility of extra innings).

I watched the Tampa telecast and their announcers thought the real mistake (albeit after the fact) was replacing Cecil with Castro, which gave the Rays the opportunity to pinch-hit Loney.
scottt - Sunday, April 26 2015 @ 08:07 AM EDT (#299943) #
The bullpen was built on Cecil and Loup for the late innings and Redmond as long man. That hasn't lasted 3 games.

Castro might be OK for closer, but you can't bring him out for the last out of an inning.Osuna has been the best reliver, but that could change in a heartbeat. The LOOGYs have not been sharp, but Loup might turn it around. Cecil has been the most hittable of the bunch. I don't think Estrada is a guy to bring out with runners on.

Any options left on Cecil?
christaylor - Sunday, April 26 2015 @ 08:57 AM EDT (#299944) #
Has Delgado ever been on the banner? He and Halladay would be good choice without going tootoo pre-internet retro.
uglyone - Sunday, April 26 2015 @ 10:27 AM EDT (#299945) #
it was only a matter of time before gibbons' love affair with young castro cost us for the truth is castro has not been missing bats, not locating, and giving up tons of hard contact. not only should he not be closer, but he should probably be sent down.

it was infuriating to see osuna get the hook when he was again looking great just because of a rinky dink hit off the endof of the bat. that was a blatantly bad decision, as was pulling cecil after one seeing eye single to get a loney-castro matchup instead of cecil-beckham. bringing in castro with two on after all the hard contact he has given up was suicide.

and all this because gibbons literally couldn't wait to get castro in the game. which is bizarre given that all the important numbers say he's been our worst RP.


castro has been bad, gibber, not good. stop thinking otherwise.
greenfrog - Sunday, April 26 2015 @ 10:28 AM EDT (#299946) #
I see Castro has 10 appearances in the Jays' first 18 games (on pace for 90 appearances in 2015).

That seems a bit high for a 20-year-old pitcher with no experience about high A ball. Gibbons himself mentioned a few weeks ago that it was important not to overuse Castro and Osuna, but perceived need seems to be overriding that principle, at least in the early going.
Gerry - Sunday, April 26 2015 @ 10:33 AM EDT (#299947) #
It seems to me that Gibby only trusts three pitchers in the pen, Castro, Osuna and Cecil. Estrada and Francis seem to be used in garbage time, Loup and Hendricks if Gibby needs someone early.

If your team is competitive you need to trust more than three bullpen pitchers.
uglyone - Sunday, April 26 2015 @ 10:43 AM EDT (#299948) #
imo there's two guys he should trust - cecil and loup - despite small sample results. there's 2 guys who should be quickly earning his trust with performance and that's osuna and hendriks. and then the vets estrada and francis have pitched well enough not to be scared of. the one guy who he should be tentative about using is the guy he bizarrely seems most confident in - castro.
John Northey - Sunday, April 26 2015 @ 12:20 PM EDT (#299949) #
In the end it is the offense that really let the Jays down - you cannot score just 2 runs and expect to win often.  I'd say Gibbons needs to learn to leave well enough alone with these blinking L-R-L-R switches.  Past time for MLB to bring in a rule that prevents that - force each pitcher to stay in until they allow a run or finish an inning.  That would cut down on these silly moves.
Chuck - Sunday, April 26 2015 @ 12:26 PM EDT (#299950) #
In spring training, the talk was Loup/Cecil for 8/9. And then Cecil got hurt and a couple of young RHP emerged. So the plan, if in fact it even was the plan, of Loup/Cecil closing out games never came to fruition.

But is Loup really a pitcher whose role should be defined by the time of game and not by the situation? He has always struck me as LOOGYish, if not an outright LOOGY, so intentionally pitching him against a run of RHB, if it can be helped at all, doesn't make sense to me.

For the past couple of years I have felt that Loup, a serviceable bullpen member to be sure, has seen his role grow in importance not entirely due to his own success, but rather, in battlefield promotion style, due to the lack of suitable alternatives.

With Castro showing some blemishes, perhaps he can switch roles with Osuna (until he himself starts showing some cracks). I don't know that this is a strong enough bullpen to opt for specific roles over riding hot hands.

Chuck - Sunday, April 26 2015 @ 12:33 PM EDT (#299951) #
Past time for MLB to bring in a rule that prevents that - force each pitcher to stay in until they allow a run or finish an inning.

While I agree that seeing tons of pitching changes is annoying, I don't agree with changing such a fundamental rule as being allowed to decide when you get to use your players.

Hopefully a chain of events that leads to larger benches and thinner bullpen staffs would have the desired result. Short of run suppressing interventions (whereby the risk of a defensive team ceding a L/R or R/L matchup is decreased), I'm not sure what would lead us down this path. And it's pretty clear that run suppression is not an option. Quite the opposite in fact (like the ridiculous proposal that a new rule could dictate where defensive players can and can't stand).

greenfrog - Sunday, April 26 2015 @ 01:13 PM EDT (#299952) #
One thing that bothered me last night (and I only watched part of the game) was the combination of the "no doubles" defense that Gibby used in the eighth with two out and Longoria at the plate, and the decision to remove Osuna after three batters.

Osuna had come on to start the inning. He was filling up the outer half with high heat and struck out Souza Jr. and Cabrera. Then, with Longo at the plate, Gibby used a "no doubles" defense that had Saunders playing way back in right field. The RHH Longo managed a defensive swing against one of Osuna's tough pitches and hit a routine fly ball to right; however, it fell in because of how deep Saunders was playing. Given the situation and the way Osuna was throwing, that positioning didn't make a lot of sense to me.

Gibby then removed Osuna, who had thrown 17 pitches, but who had been throwing well (and would have retired the side, but for Gibby's defensive choices).
JB21 - Sunday, April 26 2015 @ 01:20 PM EDT (#299953) #
My vote for the banner. Stroman and Bautista.
scottt - Sunday, April 26 2015 @ 04:13 PM EDT (#299955) #
In the end it is the offense that really let the Jays down - you cannot score just 2 runs and expect to win often.

It's going to be hard to reach the off-season if the Jays never win the pitching duels. When you lead by one run, it doesn't matter if the score if 1-0 or 13-12, the result is the same.

The rotation has 7 wins, the bullpen has 2. Cecil's win came in extra after Castro busted a save and Loup picked his because Hutch only thew 4.1 innings.  The Jays have not rallied behind the bullpen to win a game once this year. The rotation might be shaky, but the bullpen is far from solid.
uglyone - Sunday, April 26 2015 @ 05:46 PM EDT (#299956) #
I hate tampa so much.
vw_fan17 - Sunday, April 26 2015 @ 05:55 PM EDT (#299958) #
I hate tampa so much.

Probably the same thing the O's say about us. We're 1-6 against the Rays, but 5-1 against the O's so far..
cybercavalier - Sunday, April 26 2015 @ 07:33 PM EDT (#299960) #
In the end it is the offense that really let the Jays down - you cannot score just 2 runs and expect to win often.

I am suggesting player transactions:
1) With Saunders is back, would the Jays send Pompey to Buffalo and bring Colabello to T.O. ?
2) With Tolleson is in Buffalo, Jonathan Diaz to New Hamsphire ?
John Northey - Sunday, April 26 2015 @ 10:00 PM EDT (#299961) #
Those Rays are a pain - remove them and the Jays are 8-4 instead of 9-10.  No more Rays until June 22nd-24th, July 17-19, Sept 25-27, and the final series of the year Oct 2-4 in Tampa. If the Jays are to make the playoffs they better be in before that final series.
robertdudek - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 12:20 AM EDT (#299962) #
Word seems to have gotten around on Miguel Castro. Right now he is just a flamethrower with weak command and the past week of being hit EXTREMELY hard SHOULD mean that the Castro-closer plan is over for now. I'm not sure whether Delabar is ready to be recalled, but aside from that I'd say the best plan is either:

1) Sanchez in the pen as closer; Estrada as 5th starter
or
2) Combo of Osuna and Cecil depending on matchups as tandem closers.
Richard S.S. - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 01:09 AM EDT (#299963) #
One thing to remember is Osuna and Castro are very raw, without the MLB history of Cecil and Loup. As such, they should be used carefully. If they start an inning, let them finish. Having three Relievers pitch one inning is a disgrace, a sign of desperation.

Another point to remember I that Cecil is not yet up to par after missing most of Spring Training. I just don't think Gibbons remembers that all the time or he just hopes it works. Of course, I don't think he's ever had as questionable a Bullpen as this is.

If Castro is not missing bats despite his stuff, it's got to be location that's at issue. Up here is no place to re-establish his command, so if he must go down, then so be it.
85bluejay - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 06:37 AM EDT (#299964) #
Matt Williams & John Gibbons - those seats are getting warmer.
John Northey - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 09:54 AM EDT (#299966) #
Just took a peak at the Brewers - Adam Lind hitting 318/387/561 in 75 PA so far, 160 OPS+, 364/417/455 vs LHP (12 PA).  Huh.  Go figure.
Ryan Day - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 10:14 AM EDT (#299967) #
Over the last 8 games, playing with his injury & batting RH vs RHP, Jose Reyes is hitting 143/138/179. At that level of production, you'd be better off shutting him down on the DL and letting Goins play.
uglyone - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 10:39 AM EDT (#299968) #
"Matt Williams & John Gibbons - those seats are getting warmer"

come come now - it's pretty much a miracle that we're near .500 with the starting pitching we've received.
uglyone - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 10:41 AM EDT (#299969) #
Ryan - or at least platoon reyes for now.
Ryan Day - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 11:11 AM EDT (#299970) #
I know Reyes doesn't want to go on the DL, but I think he'd hate being the RH half of a platoon even more. I'm also concerned about him aggravating something else in the process of protecting or adjusting to his rib injury. I think the prudent move is to shut him down until he's back to 100%, or as close to 100% as Jose Reyes ever gets.
vw_fan17 - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 11:37 AM EDT (#299971) #
Just took a peak at the Brewers - Adam Lind hitting 318/387/561 in 75 PA so far, 160 OPS+, 364/417/455 vs LHP (12 PA).  Huh.  Go figure.

Sometimes it takes a little while for word to get around the league about how to pitch a new player. I'm sure word in the AL is out how to get Lind out if you're a LHP. Give 'em half a season until word gets around in the NL... I'm guessing he didn't play much in interleague, especially against LHP where EE would have played instead.

Then again, maybe he's healthy not being on turf, and that's a huge difference for him this year. Success/failure at the MLB level can be so fickle that feeling 20% better in his back could account for the difference.. Or, he realizes he can't just coast like he did as a Jay (sure seems that way based on his comments), so he's putting in the work he should have put in when he was here. No way to know for sure..
Chuck - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 12:35 PM EDT (#299972) #
Maybe... or... or...

And maybe it's the random variability you get with 12 plate appearances.

eudaimon - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 12:54 PM EDT (#299973) #
Here's hoping Bautista learned something from his shoulder injury.I  love the guy, but it was pretty dumb to get injured like he did. I'm sure he hates missing games because of it. On the plus side, he wasn't hitting too well to start the season, and maybe this will help him cool down and regain his focus. Seemed like he was chasing a lot and impatient in general in the early games.
JB21 - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 01:12 PM EDT (#299974) #
I don't totally understand how Jose was dumb in that situation, I see it more like, why is he in the game if throwing the ball hard results in an injury? What if there was a play at the plate in a close game and he got hurt? Is that any better? I guess I'm asking, why was he in RF with a bum shoulder? Due to the roster crunch/OF issue? He should've been DHing.
ComebyDeanChance - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 01:35 PM EDT (#299975) #
Aaron Hill has an OPS+ of 15. I know it's only April, but that's an ugly number.
uglyone - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 01:35 PM EDT (#299976) #
yep, there is all kinds of sense moving him to 1B/dh permanently. dude is 34, and having his bat in the lineup is everything.

maybe dwight smith jr. can force the issue later in the season.
eudaimon - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#299978) #
I didn't see the play so I can't say for sure, but it seemed like he threw it extra hard to try to get someone at first. It didn't really sound like a normal throw
Mike Green - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 04:02 PM EDT (#299979) #
Word seems to have gotten around on Miguel Castro. Right now he is just a flamethrower with weak command and the past week of being hit EXTREMELY hard SHOULD mean that the Castro-closer plan is over for now. I'm not sure whether Delabar is ready to be recalled, but aside from that I'd say the best plan is either:

1) Sanchez in the pen as closer; Estrada as 5th starter
or
2) Combo of Osuna and Cecil depending on matchups as tandem closers.

I'd go for the 1st option.  I might choose Hendriks instead of Estrada for the 5th starter role. 

Castro had a very fine change-up and good control of the fastball in the spring.  Maybe they will come back if the pressure is taken off.
Mike Green - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 04:51 PM EDT (#299980) #
yep, there is all kinds of sense moving him to 1B/dh permanently. dude is 34, and having his bat in the lineup is everything.
maybe dwight smith jr. can force the issue later in the season.

There's all kinds of sense to moving to first base now, at least for the time being.  He has a nagging shoulder injury and the last thing he needs is to be in a position where he is required to use his throwing arm regularly.  Frank Robinson played 200 games at first base at age 23-24 due to a chronic shoulder injury before moving back to the outfield after a new exercise regime helped him overcome the injury.  It doesn't seem unreasonable for Bautista to make a temporary move at this point.  The club needs his bat.
scottt - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 05:24 PM EDT (#299981) #
I don't get the fixation on keeping hurt players in the game. Especially when they are slumping. Just put them on the DL and start them rehabing  as soon as they are ready. It's April, not September!

I hope Saunders is not going to take a month to get going. Reyes needs to rest for a while.

Only 4 blue birds have an OPS+ over 100, Travis, Donaldson, Smoak and Bautista. It's April and the numbers are all over the place, just like every other year. Imagine that.

JB21 - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 05:47 PM EDT (#299982) #
Joey is back, DHing tonight. Reyes is in the lineup as well vs. a RHP.
dan gordon - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 06:14 PM EDT (#299983) #
Agree about playing injured players. Reyes doesn't seem able to make a positive contribution. If the prognosis is that he won't be able to hit left handed for another 10+ days, they should put him on the DL. He's 2 for 19 since he started this batting right handed nonsense. The skill level in the big leagues is so high that it's almost impossible to perform effectively with that kind of handicap.
ComebyDeanChance - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 06:35 PM EDT (#299984) #
Reyes is in the lineup as well vs. a RHP.

And leading off. sigh.
China fan - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 07:13 PM EDT (#299986) #
"....Reyes doesn't seem able to make a positive contribution...."

The game is less than an inning old, and he's already made a positive contribution.

Many players have nagging ailments and minor aches and pains.   You can't assume that's the cause of a brief hitting slump.  It might be, or it might be unrelated.

Reyes is one of the better hitters on the team, and you can't bench him or DL him without a very good reason.
Spifficus - Monday, April 27 2015 @ 07:35 PM EDT (#299987) #
That he isn't capable of hitting left-handed is a pretty good reason. If he could be most of what he normally is while playing, it'd be different, but he's an offensive minded shortstop that's losing his former platoon advantage on 2/3rds of his at bats.
dan gordon - Tuesday, April 28 2015 @ 01:56 AM EDT (#300003) #
"he's already made a positive contribution"

Well, that one hit made him 3 for 20 since trying to play with this injury, which, obviously, still is NOT making a positive contribution. It was nuts to think he could play effectively while batting right handed, and playing with a cracked rib. I see they have finally come to their senses and DL'd him. Should have been done 10 days ago.
China fan - Tuesday, April 28 2015 @ 05:03 AM EDT (#300005) #
It takes a special arrogance for fans to sit in the stands (or watch television) and attempt a medical diagnosis of a player -- and then, worse, to proclaim that the trained medical staff of a baseball team are "nuts."

With a hit, a run and a stolen base, Reyes made more of a "positive contribution" last night than Bautista, Encarnacion, Pompey and Saunders.  He almost certainly contributed more than Goins or Diaz would have (based on their career hitting numbers).  His contribution could have won the game if the bullpen had held the lead.

On top of your amateur diagnosis from the stands, you've also decided that Reyes is in the same medical condition now that he was 10 days ago.  In fact, the Jays beat writers are suggesting that Reyes may have aggravated his injury last night.  In that case, it's even more speculative to claim that he should have gone on the DL ten days ago.

I prefer to let the medical professionals do their work.
 



dan gordon - Tuesday, April 28 2015 @ 05:24 AM EDT (#300006) #
"I prefer to let the medical professionals do their work"

I prefer not to make incredibly rude and insulting comments about other people whom I don't even know, like they have "a special arrogance". The reason I feel that Reyes should have been DL'd 10 days ago has absolutely nothing to do with an "amateur diagnosis" of his injury, and everything to do with the fact that baseball played at the major league level is incredibly difficult, and takes years of practice at several different levels of play to get there. Reyes had not tried to hit right handed against a right handed pitcher in many, many years. Expecting that he would be able to do so without any practice at all, and to try to do so while playing with a cracked rib made no sense. THAT is why he should have been DL'd.
China fan - Tuesday, April 28 2015 @ 08:03 AM EDT (#300007) #
"..... incredibly rude and insulting comments about other people whom I don't even know...."

Like saying that the Jays medical staff are "nuts" and the decision to let Reyes play was "nonsense"?  
Ryan Day - Tuesday, April 28 2015 @ 10:12 AM EDT (#300009) #
The Jays keep backing themselves into a corner with Reyes' health. Like last year, when he had bad hamstrings through spring training, then got pulled after one at-bat and hit the DL. They could have Dl'd him in the spring, backdated it a week, and had him available any time during the first week; instead, he didn't play until April 19th.

And here: The best-case scenario was that Reyes would hit terribly for a week, but then return to health. Instead, he hit terribly for a week, and is now going on the DL for at least 15 days. And if it's not merely that he didn't get better, but that he actually aggravated his injury, then the team looks even worse.

To be fair, this isn't all about the training staff. For all we know, the trainers said "shut this guy down", and Reyes and/or the team said "we'll take our chances."

Whatever the plan was, whatever the decision-making process, it didn't work.
dan gordon - Tuesday, April 28 2015 @ 01:59 PM EDT (#300026) #
"Like saying that the Jays medical staff are "nuts" and the decision to let Reyes play was "nonsense"?"

Again, what I was saying had nothing to do with Reyes' health - it was the decision to have a switch hitter play while batting right handed exclusively. The medical staff did not decide this, it was the team's management that thought he could do that, and yes, I call the decision nuts, but not the people. There is a big difference between saying a bad decision was reached and making a personal attack on somebody.
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