Pinch Hit: Debut Teams

Thursday, July 08 2004 @ 02:37 AM EDT

Contributed by: Coach

Thanks very much to long-time Bauxite and first-time poster James Strapp for sending us this article, inspired by Mick's "All My Exes Played for Texas?" piece. James is even willing to share the spreadsheet (a 3.5 MB zip file) he used for this self-described "quick analysis", which to a relative Excel novice, looks like a lot of work. Enjoy.

Debut Teams

by James Strapp

Yesterday’s Baseball's Hall of Names game about what team can boast the best possible roster of players who formerly wore their uniform, got me thinking. What if players were never traded and there were no free agents? The team you started with is the team you stayed with, good or bad. Who would have the best team then? I wanted to know which team has produced the most, good players in the major leagues. Turns out, we should be very proud of our Canadian teams. I thought you might be interested.

To keep it simple, I only look at batting, not pitchers. To get the data, I extracted hits and home runs for each major league batter since 1960 from Sean Lehman’s Baseball Archive and determined the team with which they debut.

Last year, players who played their first major league game with the Blue Jays combined for 2,493 hits. That includes current Jays like Vernon’s league-leading 215 hits, and ex-Jays like Shawn Green (171), John Olerud (145), and Casey Blake (145). In fact, the 2,493 total for this “debut” team of current Jays’ players and those who started with the Jays, was tops in the majors last year.

Since the real Toronto squad were fourth in the majors in hits in 2003, this may not be surprising. But guess who finished second among the “debut” teams? Montreal. Yes, the Expos finished 24th in total hits with only 1,404 from their current team of players. By adding in Marquis Grissom, Mark Grudzielanek and all the others who have left, the “debut” Expos team connected for 2,391 hits. These weren’t cheap singles hitters either. The story is identical for home runs and total bases: debut Toronto #1, debut Montreal #2.

And 2003 is not unique. Players introduced to the majors as Montreal Expos combined to lead the majors in hits in 1995, and every year from 1997 to 2002, until the Jays surpassed them last year. Seven times over the last ten years, the Expos debut team has combined for the most total bases.

In total over the past 10 years, original Expos players have gone onto collect a total of 22,916 hits, the most in the majors. In comparison, of the non-expansion teams, Cincinnati is last with an equivalent of 10,130 hits, less than half of Montreal’s total. Montreal debut players also have the most home runs and total bases during the same period.

As for Toronto, their debut team is fourth in total hits and home runs, and third in total bases over the same 10-year period. Oakland, LA, and Minnesota have also done well. Think Chavez, Giambi, Tejada, Piazza, Konerko, and Hunter.

Interestingly, the Yankees fare pretty well, typically appearing about tenth in the list with Soriano, Jeter, Matsui, Posada, Williams, and others. Of course, they tend to be able to keep their stars. As for player sinks, rather than sources, look to Cincinnati, Philadelphia, San Francisco, and Baltimore.

Here are the rankings for total hits, home runs and total bases since 1994 by the team the player made his debut with. I have left off expansion teams such as Florida, Colorado and Tampa Bay.

Team

Hits

 

Team

HR

 

Team

TB

1. MON

22,916

 

1. MON

2,823

 

1. MON

37,105

2. LAN

19,411

 

2. OAK

2,553

 

2. OAK

30,381

3. MIN

19,030

 

3. ATL

2,469

 

3. TOR

29,933

4. TOR

18,461

 

4. TOR

2,339

 

4. LAN

29,921

5. OAK

18,453

 

5. CLE

2,274

 

5. MIN

29,448

6. ATL

17,298

 

6. TEX

2,212

 

6. ATL

28,562

7. ATL

17,298

 

7. HOU

2,155

 

7. NYA

27,075

8. NYN

16,655

 

8. NYN

2,076

 

8. NYN

26,797

9. CLE

16,036

 

9. LAN

2,042

 

9. CLE

26,665

10. SEA

16,016

 

10. SEA

1,998

 

10. HOU

26,183

11. HOU

15,807

 

11. NYA

1,956

 

11. SEA

25,791

12. KCA

15,530

 

12. MIN

1,895

 

12.  KCA

24,217

13. CAL

15,263

 

13. CAL

1,789

 

13.  CAL

24,158

14. SLN

14,359

 

14. DET

1,769

 

14.  TEX

24,112

15. PIT

14,333

 

15. MIL

1,637

 

15.  DET

23,139

16. DET

14,305

 

16. KCA

1,578

 

16.  SLN

22,449

17. TEX

14,236

 

17. PIT

1,557

 

17.  PIT

22,384

18. CHN

13,673

 

18. SLN

1,520

 

18.  MIL

21,720

19. MIL

13,623

 

19. BOS

1,427

 

19.  CHN

20,879

20. SDN

12,226

 

20. CHA

1,379

 

20.  CHA

18,971

21. CHA

11,975

 

21. CHN

1,362

 

21.  BOS

18,231

22. BOS

11,250

 

22. BAL

1,319

 

22.  SDN

18,096

23. BAL

11,107

 

23. SFN

1,162

 

23.  BAL

17,674

24. SFN

10,945

 

24. CIN

1,109

 

24.  SFN

16,946

25. PHI

10,615

 

25. PHI

1,022

 

25.  PHI

16,393

26. CIN

10,130

 

26. SDN

1,014

 

26.  CIN

15,854



And here is what last year’s Expos and Jays team would have looked like under this “keep ‘em” scenario (players with more than 100 plate appearances). Players no longer with their debut team as of October 2003 are marked with an asterisk.

Your Debut Jays

Your Debut Expos

1. Alex Gonzalez* 1. Andres Galarraga*
2. Carlos Delgado 2. Brad Fullmer
3. Casey Blake 3. Brad Wilkerson
4. Cesar Izturis* 4. Brian Schneider
5. Chris Woodward 5. Cliff Floyd*
6. Eric Hinske 6. Geoff Blum*
7. Felipe Lopez* 7. Henry Mateo
8. Fred McGriff* 8. Jamey Carroll
9. Greg Myers 9. John Vander Wal*
10. John Olerud*10. Larry Walker*
11. Jose Cruz Jr.*11. Mark Grudzielanek*
12. Josh Phelps 12. Marquis Grissom*
13. Kevin Cash13. Matt Stairs*
14. Kevin Witt*14. Michael Barrett
15. Miguel Cairo*15. Milton Bradley*
16. Orlando Hudson16. Moises Alou*
17. Reed Johnson 17. Orlando Cabrera
18. Ryan Freel* 18. Ron Calloway
19. Shannon Stewart*19. Rondell White*
20. Shawn Green*20. Tim Laker*
21. Tomas Perez*21. Vladimir Guerrero
22. Vernon Wells22. Wil Cordero*


A few caveats. I found and corrected a couple of data items I couldn’t explain, such as Matt Williams appearing with Toronto about the time that San Francisco drafted him. There may be others. Also, of course the team a player debuts with may not be the same team that drafted or developed him. For example Fred McGriff is a Toronto product in this analysis, despite (famously) joining them ready for the majors from the Yankees.

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