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Keith Law says it was "an awful pick," but Justin Morneau is your 2006 AL MVP. Who should have won?

Morneau 101 (35.31%)
Derek Jeter 61 (21.33%)
David Ortiz 6 (2.10%)
Frank Thomas 6 (2.10%)
Jermaine Dye 6 (2.10%)
Joe Mauer 55 (19.23%)
Travis Hafner 17 (5.94%)
Vlad Guerrero 0 (0.00%)
Johan Santana 29 (10.14%)
Other (specify) 5 (1.75%)
Keith Law says it was "an awful pick," but Justin Morneau is your 2006 AL MVP. Who should have won? | 37 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mike Green - Tuesday, November 21 2006 @ 05:01 PM EST (#158474) #
Morneau is tied with Santana and Mauer so far in our poll.  Aaron Gleeman who follows the Twins like nobody I know doesn't think so.
VBF - Tuesday, November 21 2006 @ 05:06 PM EST (#158475) #
I voted Hafner, and his American League leading 1.097 OPS.
Amarsh - Tuesday, November 21 2006 @ 05:26 PM EST (#158477) #
Thomas finishing 4th in the voting (the actual one) is nice for Ricciardi and co. 

Hopefully the Jays have some good PR people who can push that a little bit, to give a positive buzz to some of the fairweather or less-informed baseball fans in Toronto.

King Ryan - Tuesday, November 21 2006 @ 05:28 PM EST (#158478) #
Should have been between Mauer and Jeter.   Santana is also a decent choice, and I wouldn't have been TOO upset with Ortiz winning.  But Morneau winning is nothing short of a joke that invalidates these awards even further.

And I say that as someone who was born in the same city as Mr. Morneau.  ;-)

Howard's winning was wrong, but defensible.  At least Howard hit 58 jacks.  Morneau had pretty much a run-of-the-mill good season for a 1B.  The voters voted for the best story, rather than the most valuable player.

HippyGilmore - Tuesday, November 21 2006 @ 05:48 PM EST (#158480) #

That's Canadian pride for you. My happiness that a good Canadian boy like Justin won it overwhelmingly negates any ill feelings over whether he won it unfairly. Congratulations, Justin!

(That said, I voted Jeter. Don't tell Don Cherry.)

Joanna - Tuesday, November 21 2006 @ 07:48 PM EST (#158490) #

Yay, MVP Trifecta!  

 

p.s. Hey Keith, it's not an awful pick.  The last half of the season, people were saying Jeter or Morneau.  Or maybe Ortiz and Dye (with an outside chance).  Morneau put up great numbers and was a complete player.  The Twins were carried by him.  So stop being such a jerk.  It's not like this pick came out of nowhere.

greenfrog - Tuesday, November 21 2006 @ 07:59 PM EST (#158491) #
Jeter, in a close race, because of his excellent stats (average, power, production, speed, baserunning), solid defense at a key position, and consistency throughout the season, including when several Yanks went down with injuries.

I'm biased in favour of positional players (I agree with Joe Morgan that in the Cy Young, pitchers have their own "most valuable" award). If I literally had to choose the "most valuable player"--meaning a cornerstone player, the one who, based on last season's performance, provided the most value and whom I would most want to build my team around--I would choose Santana.

I would rank Mauer just behind Jeter, and Morneau, Ortiz, Thomas, Dye and Hafner a close third. Thomas and Ortiz were immensely valuable to their respective clubs (and Oakland made the playoffs) but  neither was the league's MVP.

js_magloire - Tuesday, November 21 2006 @ 08:49 PM EST (#158492) #
I would pick Mauer. To me a pitcher shouldn't win the Cy unless he has such a good season that it is not even funny (Pedro a la 1999), thats what the Cy Young is normally for. Morneau did well but I think Mauer did better, with his offensive numbers are key defensive position over Jeter's. I think Jermaine Dye hit really well too but wasn't on a winning team, which means something.
js_magloire - Tuesday, November 21 2006 @ 09:08 PM EST (#158495) #
edit: pitchers shouldn't win the MVP, unless your Pedro in 1999....
James W - Tuesday, November 21 2006 @ 11:16 PM EST (#158505) #
Jeter didn't play solid defense, he played mediocre defense, costing the Yanks 14 outs according to David Pinto.
chengy - Wednesday, November 22 2006 @ 01:27 AM EST (#158513) #
I thought Jeter was going to win but if I had voted it would've been between Big Papi and Morneau. I am pleased with a Canadian winning :). One day we wil havel simultaneous Canadian MVPs in the AL and NL (goooooo Jason Bay!!).
Dave Rutt - Wednesday, November 22 2006 @ 02:51 AM EST (#158517) #
3/5 reigning MVPs in major North American team sports are now Canadians.
Jonny German - Wednesday, November 22 2006 @ 09:00 AM EST (#158522) #

I am amazed that Morneau is winning this poll. Anybody care to make the case for him over Mauer?

Wedding Singer - Wednesday, November 22 2006 @ 09:42 AM EST (#158526) #
I am also shocked that Morneau is winning. He had a good season for a 1B. Mauer won the gold glove at a very challenging position, won the batting title, and hit for decent power.  Can't you guys put aside your Canadian bias and vote subjectively?
Mick Doherty - Wednesday, November 22 2006 @ 09:50 AM EST (#158527) #
If Mauer had won (the award, not the poll), I wonder -- would it have been the first time in history a battery of teammates won Cy Young and MVP Awards the same year?
js_magloire - Wednesday, November 22 2006 @ 10:16 AM EST (#158533) #
Well if Liriano stayed healthy they would have made the AL MVP-AL CY Young-AL Rookie of the Year sweep, all with different people. I wonder if that has ever happened before?
Mike Green - Wednesday, November 22 2006 @ 10:19 AM EST (#158534) #
Yes, it would have been.  The Cy Young was first awarded in 1956, and there have been very few catchers to win the MVP since then (Bench, Pudge).  Had there been a Cy Young award in 1928, the A's tandem of Cochrane-Grove might have accomplished the feat.  Grove led the league in wins, and finished 3rd (barely behind the two leaders) in ERA.
js_magloire - Wednesday, November 22 2006 @ 10:21 AM EST (#158535) #
I think what this award needs is a distinction. There should be:

a seperate award for closer of the year, so they don't win the Cy Young. A reliever can win this too (look at all those holds!).

the Cy Yound should be the only award a starter can win.

the Most Valuable Hitter award should be awarded to the most valuable hitter.

the Most Valuable Player award should be awarded to the most valuable player to his team. So the latter two don't get crossed up....the MVP's true definition tends to change from person to person.

greenfrog - Wednesday, November 22 2006 @ 11:17 AM EST (#158541) #
There's a good overview of the MVP award controversy (in both leagues) on the Baseball Analysts:

http://www.baseballanalysts.com/


VBF - Wednesday, November 22 2006 @ 12:11 PM EST (#158550) #

What's the distinction between someone like Mourneau getting a ton of votes, and Ortiz and Hafner barely making a dent in the voting?

Is it purely the fact that he plays defense? Was on a winning team?

Those are the only two factors I can figure out. And not the most convincing either.

Mike Green - Thursday, November 23 2006 @ 02:39 PM EST (#158646) #
For the record, I voted Santana.  As far as I am concerned, there are reasonable arguments to be made for Santana, Mauer and Jeter.  And where is Dioner Navarro when I need him most? Hardly visible.  This is the year, I tell you.  When Navarro leads his club to the playoffs, and who knows what could come from that.
AWeb - Thursday, November 23 2006 @ 03:13 PM EST (#158651) #

The over-reaction has been surprising...unles it's all just Jeter-love in disguise from the Morneau haters. Morneau was 5th in win shares in the AL, 8th in WS above bench. He was behind a few DHs (and yes, I am aware Win Shares already make the positional adjustment for DHs), but it's not like he was way-way behind. Not the best choice, sure, but oh well.

The MVP goes to players who get hot when the team does and gets them near/in the playoffs most of the time. Guerrero won because of that. So did Tejada, Suzuki, Giambi (over Delgado), Ivan Rodriguez, etc... Some may have deserved the award based on more quantitative criteria...but that's not why they won. The "right" choice, from a stats view, only coincidentally overlaps sometimes.

Chuck - Thursday, November 23 2006 @ 03:30 PM EST (#158654) #
The MVP goes to players who get hot when the team does and gets them near/in the playoffs most of the time.

Acknowledging that there's a great deal of truth to what you have said (for good or for bad), there were two other players on Morneau's team that would have made for preferable choices. If the voters were dead set on selecting a Twin, why that one specific Twin? RBI lust?
AWeb - Thursday, November 23 2006 @ 03:40 PM EST (#158656) #

To overgeneralise how some voters seem to be reasoning it. 

Mauer was hot at the beginning of the year, and the Twins weren't winning then...Santana is a pitcher, and therefore not the MVP. Jeter was on an all-star team, Hafner was a DH (and missed a month), as were Ortiz and Thome (who's teams sunk in the second half). Dye was also on one of those sinking teams. Manny missed a month, we don't like Giambi, so Morneau, how about him? Look at those RBI! I pick him, RBI are the most important thing in the world!

Mike Green - Thursday, November 23 2006 @ 03:43 PM EST (#158657) #
Morneau is only close to the others in Win Shares because THT's Runs Created gives him a clutch bonus, which is reflected in Offensive Win Shares.  Other metrics had him as being about as valuable a hitter as Mauer. 

And if you think the "clutch bonus" reflects reality, have a look at David Ortiz? This year, he was docked significantly for his clutch performance. "Clutch" for this purpose incidentally refers to "run production clutch", not "game clutch". So, if a hitter singles with a runner on second in the ninth inning of a 10-0 game, that is considered to be a positive for clutch purposes.  On the other hand, if a hitter hits a walkoff solo homer in an extra inning game, that is not a positive for clutch purposes. 

Magpie - Thursday, November 23 2006 @ 10:25 PM EST (#158681) #
A tale of two AL first basemen.

Player      G  AB  R  H  2B 3B HR RBI BB  SO  BA   OBP  SLG SB CS GDP HBP SH SF IBB
Player A  157 592 97 190 37  1 34 130 53  93 .321 .375 .559  3  3  10   5  0 11   9
Player B  152 566 97 177 30  0 35 113 60 104 .313 .381 .551  1  0  25   8  0  9   3

Player A is your AL MVP (15 first place votes, among the top 4 on all 28 ballots).
Player B was named by exactly one voter, who put him in 8th place.

They don't look all that different to me...
Magpie - Thursday, November 23 2006 @ 10:32 PM EST (#158682) #
Remove Justin from the twins and they DO NOT win the ALC, never mind make the playoffs.

Obviously true if they replaced him with me, or if they went through the season without a first basemen. But they would be allowed to replace him with someone. And there is no shortage of AL players who would have represented an actual upgrade on Morneau, in 2006. It would have been a whole lot easier to replace what Morneau brought to the Twins than it would be to replace Mauer. Or Santana.
Magpie - Thursday, November 23 2006 @ 10:39 PM EST (#158684) #
Anybody care to make the case for him over Mauer?

What case?

It's 1987 all over again. For the most part, it doesn't really matter (although Alan Trammell's Hall of Fame chances would probably have received a boost. That shouldn't affect Jeter too much.)
Keith Law says it was "an awful pick," but Justin Morneau is your 2006 AL MVP. Who should have won? | 37 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.