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Read Mike Green's latest Hall Watch. Who is most likely to get "Santo'd" and not make the Hall of Fame?

Chipper Jones 10 (5.85%)
Scott Rolen 21 (12.28%)
Alex Rodriguez 1 (0.58%)
Robin Ventura 136 (79.53%)
They'll all make it 3 (1.75%)

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171 votes | 9 featured comments
Read Mike Green's latest Hall Watch. Who is most likely to get "Santo'd" and not make the Hall of Fame? | 11 comments | Create New Account
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Mick Doherty - Friday, December 01 2006 @ 11:23 AM EST (#159590) #
The first two votes -- including mine -- go to Venture. No surprise, I guess, but doesn't bode well for the Hall chances of Aramis Ramirez or Joe Crede. What is it about playing the hot corner in the Windy City?
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Mike Green - Friday, December 01 2006 @ 11:39 AM EST (#159595) #
There are a number of difficult Hall decisions at third base- Ken Boyer, Bando, Ventura, Darrell Evans. I personally would only pick Evans from this group, but you certainly can make cases for Ventura and Boyer as well.

Santo is a notch up from this class. He, Lou Whitaker, Alan Trammell (so far) and Bobby Grich are the most egregious omissions among position players of the last 50 years.  For what it's worth, Tony Gwynn, while an obvious Hall of Famer, was no better than these worthy candidates.  We're still seduced by the big numbers...

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huckamaniac - Friday, December 01 2006 @ 11:52 AM EST (#159596) #
I said Ventura. Unfortuantely, my main memory of his career is this as opposed to his on field accomplishments.
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John Northey - Friday, December 01 2006 @ 12:45 PM EST (#159609) #
Ventura won't make it, although in college he did have a 58 game hitting streak - 2 longer than Joe DiMaggio's was.  Someone has broken that record since then (at a lower college level - Damian Costantino in Div-III had a 60 game streak in 2003) but still a neat fact about him.
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Mick Doherty - Friday, December 01 2006 @ 01:06 PM EST (#159611) #
Ventura's running away with this one -- no surprise. His most comparables are a litany of "Third Basemen: The Hall of Pretty Good." Cey, Zeile, Bando, K. Boyer, M. Williams, Bonilla -- All-Stars all, HOFers none.
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Glevin - Friday, December 01 2006 @ 02:22 PM EST (#159622) #

I don't see Ventura as even particularly close to a HOFer. He was never the best hitter on his team, he was never one of the top hitters in the league,  he was never really near the league lead in anything important and he played an offensive position.

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AWeb - Friday, December 01 2006 @ 02:51 PM EST (#159623) #

Does Santo'd mean should have made it but didn't, or didn't quite make it? I guess that's up to your opinion on Santo's merits for the Hall; I would say the former.

I'd be shocked if Ventura made it, since I never heard anyone refer to him as a possible HoFer while playing. He was better than I realized, though. Third base just isn't a position many players stay at for their careers, many switch to the OF and/or first to save themselves from the grind. It's hard to judge 3B because of this. Are Jones, Rolen, and Rodriguez  HoFers in Left field? Rodriguez is, Jones likely would be, not sure of Rolen.

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Mike Green - Friday, December 01 2006 @ 03:07 PM EST (#159625) #
I'm not arguing for Ventura, but the case runs something like this.  Compare Robin Ventura with Brooks Robinson.  Ventura was a better hitter by a considerable margin. Robinson was a better defender, the gold standard among third baseman, but Ventura was very, very good.  How many runs per season are we talking about between a very, very good defensive third baseman and the gold standard?  You have to believe that third base is an awfully important defensive position to think that Robinson was a better player through age 35.  I do subscribe to that view, but many people do not.  After age 35, Robinson made contributions, but they were not so significant that they change the overall picture.

Why was Robinson a no-brainer Hall of Fame selection?  Probably the same reason that Lou Brock was, although Robinson was a significantly more valuable player.  The World Series had a disproportionate effect on voters perceptions, and Robinson's fielding prowess was on full display in 1970, as Brock's abilities were on full display in 67-68.

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AWeb - Friday, December 01 2006 @ 03:24 PM EST (#159628) #

And hence the Hall of Fame name, not the Hall of Best Players name. I don't always like the results, but they are a private club, and can admit anyone they want under any circumstances. Now, I'm more interested in who was best, but I can see the argument for Robinson (and many others, like Puckett for instance) along those lines.

At this point, fans who want to know can find out who the best players, measured objectively, were/are. The HoF makes for an interesting debate, but it's like the MVP awards. Somewhat arbitrary standards, and not a good measure of what I want it to be all the time.

 

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Read Mike Green's latest Hall Watch. Who is most likely to get "Santo'd" and not make the Hall of Fame? | 11 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.