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We've covered the Indians and Chief Wahoo -- now, over to the Braves and Chief Noc-A-Homa. Greatest BOS/MIL/ATL Brave?

Hank Aaron 74 (62.71%)
Tom Glavine 0 (0.00%)
Chipper Jones 4 (3.39%)
Greg Maddux 22 (18.64%)
Eddie Mathews 0 (0.00%)
Dale Murphy 2 (1.69%)
Phil Niekro 0 (0.00%)
John Smoltz 4 (3.39%)
Warren Spahn 12 (10.17%)
Other (who?) 0 (0.00%)
We've covered the Indians and Chief Wahoo -- now, over to the Braves and Chief Noc-A-Homa. Greatest BOS/MIL/ATL Brave? | 10 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mick Doherty - Thursday, August 16 2007 @ 03:33 PM EDT (#173167) #

Five of the nine finalists are pitchers. How about that!

Among those not making the cut for this list were great old-timers like "Sliding" Billy Hamilton, Hugh Duffy, Rabbit Maranville, Kid Nichols and Tommy Bond, mid-century guys like Joe Adcock and Wally Berger and later stars like Gene Garber and Andruw Jones -- sorry Andruw, Chipper grabbed the 21st-century Jones slot!

Mike Green - Thursday, August 16 2007 @ 04:00 PM EDT (#173171) #
I voted Maddux over Aaron, narrowly.  Maddux was a better pitcher at his best than Aaron was in rightfield. 
Magpie - Thursday, August 16 2007 @ 04:14 PM EDT (#173173) #
Aaron, after a momentary hesitation. But here's the question that has me all a-flutter - who is the greatest LH starting pitcher in team history?
John Northey - Thursday, August 16 2007 @ 04:41 PM EDT (#173175) #
Now this is far more interesting.

We have...
One of the best outfielders ever, with an argument for best player period (career) in Aaron

One of the best pitchers ever, peak and career in Maddux

One of, if not the best third baseman pre-Brett/Schmidt/Boggs in Mathews

A guy with 363 wins in Spahn

Wow. 4 guys who all have had inner-circle claims when they retired, some still to this day. Then comes two more 300 game winners (plus Kid Nichols who got 329 for this franchise), a two time MVP, and a pair of likely HOFers in Smoltz and Jones.

Scary good. Mix in Bobby Cox for manager and you got a 'wow' factor above most I'd say. Bit weak at closer unless you leave Smoltz there (Sutter only got 40 saves here, just 3 had 100+ max for Smoltz at 154).
Mick Doherty - Thursday, August 16 2007 @ 05:36 PM EDT (#173178) #

Mags, I think Spahn has a good case as the greatest LH starting pitcher in baseball history. And while Glavine is a pantheon guy, I don't see him at that level.

Caveat: that's entirely personal perception and not statistically based in the least. (Or were you going for Steve Avery?)

Magpie - Thursday, August 16 2007 @ 08:05 PM EDT (#173182) #
When I was hesitating, it was Spahn I was thinking of rather than Aaron. There were almost always better pitchers than Spahn around - but when you absolutely know that you're going into a season with a guy who's going to pitch 250 innings (16 times) and win 20 games (13 times) - it gives you some time to worry about the other stuff.

And it's not like Spahn was starting that many more games. The most games Glavine ever started in a season was 36 (three times.) But Spahn only started more than 36 games twice (38 in 1949 and 39 in 1950.) Right now, Glavine has 600 major league starts, Spahn had 665. (Spahn also made 85 relief appearances, Glavine has never once come out of the bullpen.)

Spahn had many, many more decisions than Glavine (608 to 497) largely because he went deeper into games - he actually completed more than half of his starts in the major leagues.

The Cy Young Award wasn't around for the first half of Spahn's career, and there was just one award for the majors as a whole during the second half. Spahn won in 1957 - he surely would have won in 1953, and possibly in 1947. He's one of the contenders in 1956 and 1958. His best season (1953) is probably better than Glavine's best (1998), which was in its turn about as good as Spahn's second best season (1947.) Glavine gets an edge after that - his seasons in 1991-92 and again in 1996-97 are a little better than any of Spahn's seasons except 1947 and 1953. And he was soaking up some innings, even in the 1990s - from 225 to 246.2 in the seasons I've mentioned.

It's really close. I think Spahn's peak is a tiny bit higher, but Glavine's lasts a little longer.

Mike Green - Friday, August 17 2007 @ 10:43 AM EDT (#173204) #
There is a similarity between Spahn and Aaron.  They are both noted for their late career accomplishments, but in both instances they got a big boost from their environment.  We've talked about Aaron before, but Spahn's ERA and win numbers in his late 30s/early 40s are reflective in part of the offense behind him (including the young Aaron) and the same home park which depressed Aaron's statistics when he was young.

People don't realize how great Maddux was, in historical terms.  He's clearly behind Clemens and Johnson, but for any other pitcher, it gets very dicey indeed. He gets a little extra credit in this poll from me because of his instrumental role in the great success of the Braves over many years.

Mick Doherty - Friday, August 17 2007 @ 11:41 AM EDT (#173208) #

Holy cow (nod to Rizzuto) ... three have NO votes and it's two 300-game winners and a HOF third baseman (That rarest of animals.)

Honest question -- someone who voted for Chipper, who was mostly a 3B -- why him over Mathews? I don't see it. He's probably headed to Cooperstown too, but I'd think Mathews was the "better" player ... I say that without looking at any stats and may be horribly mistaken. It's just my impression ...

CaramonLS - Friday, August 17 2007 @ 11:59 AM EDT (#173211) #
I remember Vin Scully calling a Dodgers/Mets game a while back, and he mentioned that even Glavine's dad would always preface any accomplishment Glavine did with "...but Warren Spahn"

I voted Aaron narrowly over Spahn/Maddux.

Magpie - Friday, August 17 2007 @ 01:19 PM EDT (#173222) #
I think the natural thought - it was my own as well - is to regard Spahn as clearly and decisively a step above Glavine. But when you think about it just a little more carefully it's really quite close. And I hadn't even considered the difference between County in Milwaukee and the Launching Pad in Atlanta. Plus it just seems strange to say that someone's biggest advantage over Glavine - who in 21 seasons has never been on the DL - is durability.

Amazing Spahn stuff. He's number 21 all-time for career Complete Games. All 20 men who are ahead of him were pitching before Spahn himself was born, in 1921. We have to go all the way down to number 38 before we find another pitcher who was even active during the last fifty years (Robin Roberts.)

We've covered the Indians and Chief Wahoo -- now, over to the Braves and Chief Noc-A-Homa. Greatest BOS/MIL/ATL Brave? | 10 comments | Create New Account
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