Of course, health is never equal.  For pitchers especially, health and effectiveness are tied together in a ball of string that cannot be untangled.

I would have also considered Liriano.  I voted for Santana though.

Santana's the only guy I'd trade Doc for as a GM. And I'd be saddened as a fan.

I'd say top 4 pitchers in baseball are: Johan Santana, Roy Halladay, Roy Oswalt, Chris Carpenter.

 Santana's the only one I'd do for sure. I'd give some serious consideration towards Webb or Oswalt, though.

I couldn't bring myself to vote, though if I had voted, it would be for Santana (kinda obviously) or maybe the other Roy. And I feel kinda sick about it.  I'd rather say Doc and  Santana.  Or Double Roys.  This is all fantasy anyway.

I'm with Ryan. Though Johan is the only guy I'd entertain trading Doc for (and only after thinking really, really long and hard about it - would Johan be willing to commit to the team longterm as Doc has?) I'm fairly surprised that nobody's voted for Webb. He has the most Doc-like K, BB and groundball numbers.

Doc is already is well...the Doc, and you can't get much better than that. So I voted nobody. But if I absolutely had to, I would want to get a young pitcher with serious potential like Francisco Liriano.

Contract issue aside, based purely on talent, age, and health, I would flip Doc for Santana in a heartbeat. Heck I would flip Doc and Rios for Santana right now if I could.

I'm worried by Doc's declining K rate and Santana has proven to be less of a health risk.

Although in my dreams the Jays would have Santana and Doc in the rotation. Both are elite pitchers.

I voted for Santana and like many of the others hell would have to freeze over before I'd actually consider trading Roy. To me he personifies what "Blue Jays" means to me and I'd like nothing better than being able to see him retire as a Jay no matter what offer I'd receive.

I voted nobody ever, forget it.

I just have one question for those who would vote otherwise.

When do you get the rare combination of supreme talent at such a vital position and such a commitment to the organization that the Doc has shown?

I'd say about once in a generation.

Personally I wouldn't trade Halladay until the end of this current deal and only if he consented to the deal with no coersion. And then only if the organization is going into re-build mode. Loyalty is a two way street and ought to be encouraged within an organization.

But then this is the 21st century, I guess loyalty and respect is old school.

 

But then this is the 21st century, I guess loyalty and respect is old school.

The Doctor is living proof that it certainly isn't.

20 years from now someone's gonna ask "Mr. Blue Jay?", and the unanimous name blurted out will be Roy Halladay. Forget about the marginal advantage Santana has over Doc. Doc's everything in a player the Jays want, and he's given more off the field than anyone could ask. You can't put a price on identity.

 

If I'm a GM, I would trade any player if it helped my ball club. If I didn't do that, than I feel like I wouldn't be doing my job correctly.
Assuming Doc and Santana both were locked up long term at the same amount of money, I would be disappointed if I found out JP turned down Doc for Santana.

For the most part, loyalty is a bunch of hogwash. It usually comes down to money. Let's see how loyal Doc is if the Jays didn't offer their huge extension but instead offered him a 3yr/9 million extension. I bet you he wouldn't have signed.

Yeah usually it does come down to money. In fact Halladay could have flocked off to the Yankee's and their phoney team and phoney fans. But he hasn't has he?  So it kind of makes that argument hogwash.

He gave this team the oppportunity to re-up at a very competitive price. So obviously its not all about money is it?  Both Burnett and Lilly have recently lauded the Halladay example as influencial of their recent success. Lilly even went so far as to say "we" and "our staff" when turning his mind to next year. So maybe loyalty is infectious.

Remember, we're talking about Roy Halladay here, not Roger Clemens or David Wells. The benefits Halladay brings to this club are priceless.

Don't worry, when Santana is a free agent I fully expect him to sign with your beloved Yankee's. Percentages dictate that he is unlikey to be one of those rare selfless players.

 

In Doc's case, I think it came down to money and liking the organization. Don't forget before he signed the extension, he had suffered 2 serious injuries the previous 2 seasons. It's pretty hard to turn down 49 million dollars. Don't get me wrong, by no means am I calling Doc selfish or greedy. Doc is my favorite player in all of baseball.

As for Santana, he gave up 2 years of free agency when he signed the 4 year extension. With the Twins getting a new stadium, I expect Santana to re-up with the Twins once his current deal runs out.

When Santana signed his contract in 2004, pitchers were cheaper back then - their market value climbs every year. Doc re-upped for 13.3 million per year, and considering Oswalt and probably Zito will get 15 per year then, his contract is pretty good. I admit Santana's is pretty beneficial to the twins too, and he seems like a pretty good guy, as does Doc. Also, Doc's 2nd major injury was a freak accident. As well, let us remember that Santana has 1 blown lead this year and Doc has 6, plus a string of bad luck that has nothing to do with striking out less people. If Doc went 22-6 the whole season with a 3.10 ERA, the Cy this season could be closer then you'd think.

How about Rich Harden, health being equal the guy has done nothing but be spectacular, besides a little canadian content doesnt hurt

Francisco Liriano or Felix Hernandez, but I can't decide. Maybe Liriano for the left handedness.

Uh, that would be I would only ever trade Doc for Liriano or Hernandez, nobody else. You cannot buy Doc's loyalty and drive, but those 2 have so much upside it would be difficult to resist.

Forget about the marginal advantage Santana has over Doc.

Halladay (01-06) :

82-30,  1105 IP, 195 BB,  703 K,  82 HR,  xERA  3.47

Santana (02-06)

74-27,  947 IP,  239 BB,   1046 K,   93 HR,   xERA   2.91

Not that marginal really.

Marginal enough for me, Ken.

As a GM I'd go for Santana although as a fan I'd rather not ever lose Doc.  He is much like Stieb was in the 80's.  The guy during the tail end of a horrid era who gave us hope for the future who then becomes one of, if not the best in the business.  Odds are Halladay will spend a few seasons elsewhere at some point but hopefully, ala Stieb, it will be at the very tail end of a great career and after the Jays win a WS with him.

  I know the question suggests we assume everyone's healthy, but I just can't go that far for Liriano, who's on the DL with a bad elbow and iirc had arm troubles in the minors. If we're really ignoring pre-existing health issues (as opposed to potential ones), then I'd put Mark Prior at or near the top of the list.

Here's that clip of Mulder from BTF

As I said, it's pretty incredible watching the differences there.

I'll throw out the name Scott Kazmir. Not because I would trade him for Doc but because his name seems like it should be in the mix.

 If we can really assume a player is going to stay healthy, I'll take Roger Clemens. Heck, Clemens might have a better chance of pitching 200 productive innings next year than Kazmir or Liriano anyway.

How about Rich Harden, the kid is electric, cocky and being canadian doesnt hurt

Felix Hernandez.........he will still be great.

So if you trade Doc straight up for Felix Hernandez you have him pitching for a fraction of the cost and enough money left over to go and sign a Barry ZIto type. And with the Jays current budget you have enough to sign another pitcher with the current money...The money not quite be there for that but it would be doable

Staff

Zito,Burnett,Schmidt, Hernandez, Chacin

I voted Santana, but the more I think about it, Bonderman might be the guy when you throw in the current real life situations.

I voted for Carlos Zambrano who's pretty much Halladay except he's a few years younger. I figure if you're gonna trade Doc, might aswell get the guy most similar to him in return.

I voted for Carlos Zambrano who's pretty much Halladay except he's a few years younger. I figure if you're gonna trade Doc, might aswell get the guy most similar to him in return.

Uhmm... they are basically the exact opposite pitcher.
Zambrano walks and strikes out a ton of guys, doesnt allow many  hits, and you wouldnt use all the fingers on onehand counting the number of pitchers who throw more than him.
Doc doesnt walk many, has average k rates, allows a hit an inning, and is one of the two or three most effective pitchers in baseball when he's on.

Brandon Webb is Halladay Jr., and maybe more so.