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Notes from Nowhere Buy me some peanuts and...
We're over 200 comments in Friday's thread as AJ Fever has body temperatures over 40 degrees C. It's time for a new start.

The big news of the day out of Dallas today concerns next year's World Baseball Championship. Many of the game's great players, Bonds, Pujols, A-Rod, Delgado, have indicated that they will go. The games will be played at interesting venues, such as Hiram Bithorn in Puerto Rico and Cracker Jack stadium at Disney World. Why do I keep thinking about the Anaheim Mighty Ducks? What do you think, Bauxites?
Posted by Mike Green on Monday, December 05 2005 @ 04:07 PM EST.
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The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Ron - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 05:25 PM EST (#134341) #
The Cat has been chosen to play for Team Italy.

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Maldoff - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 05:40 PM EST (#134342) #
Can anyone explain to me why everyone is so down on Ted Lilly? While he did have a terrible year last year, the year prior to that he was phenomenal, and I think he can still be a decent #2, very good #3.
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VBF - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 05:58 PM EST (#134344) #
They are talking about AJ Burnett on Prime Time Sports right now. Regardless of McCowan, there's usually an interesting guest on that may or may not know something.
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VBF - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:01 PM EST (#134345) #
Burnett is very close to being a Blue Jay.

http://rotoworld.com/includes/topblurbs.asp?sport=MLB
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Skills - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:02 PM EST (#134346) #
Drawing on the Abreu discussion for the other thread, I'd be happy to add him as a bat, but if we had to give up Wells? NO WAY! Wells gives superior defense and potentially equivalent offensive production for a smaller price. Also, as many have already pointed out, we need to ADD a big bat, not exchange our only big bat for another.
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smcs - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:13 PM EST (#134348) #
I just saw on TSN that Peter Gammons is reporting that AJ Burnett will be announce that he will be a Jay for the next five years at $55 M within the hour
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VBF - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:14 PM EST (#134350) #
No, he said the next honor :)

Announcing AJ Burnett is a Jay (still looking for a secondary source) seems to have killed the thread.
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Blue in SK - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:16 PM EST (#134351) #
It's like the collective Box members are holding their breath, waiting for an announcement.
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VBF - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:20 PM EST (#134352) #
Just for the record, this is only Gammons reporting this. This may be far from a done deal.
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Ron - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:21 PM EST (#134353) #
Looks like the Cards have one last chance to up their offer or AJ is signing on the dotted line today.

I'm ready to explode with joy. I've been big on AJ ever since the Fish were shopping him around before the trade deadline.

This signing would be huge for the franchise.
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andrewkw - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:22 PM EST (#134354) #
5/55 really isn't that bad. I will be very happy if this deal gets done.

As for the world baseball classic I saw on sportsnet news BJ Ryan will be on team usa. I thought the jays were not permitting him to play. Or were they just joking? I really don't like the idea of him or Halladay playing because of injury risk. I'm really not high on this tournament. Sure it might be fun, but I'd much rather cheer for the blue jays regardless of where they are from then team Canada any day.
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Wildrose - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:22 PM EST (#134355) #
Gammons and Ricciardi are tight, we'll see. Hopefully the spouses of some of our Bauxites have their CPR certification up to date.
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VBF - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:23 PM EST (#134356) #
Wilner is on the FAN 590 right now.
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VBF - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:25 PM EST (#134357) #
McGowan is saying an announcement could come as early as within an hour.
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RhyZa - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:31 PM EST (#134359) #
I have to remain cautious on this one fellas. Still a possibility that this is a negotiating ploy to get the Cards to ante up.
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Joe - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:35 PM EST (#134361) #
So that it gets an audience, I post once more on this topic, and that's it for me for rather some time, I promise.

Upgrade to Firefox 1.5!

Firefox is the safe, fast, and simple web browser that I know you'll love. If you've installed Firefox, upgrade to 1.5! And if you haven't, what are you waiting for?

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Wildrose - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:37 PM EST (#134362) #
According to the official sight a tentative Canadian roster.
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Jeffrey - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:40 PM EST (#134363) #
I just heard on The Score that Burnett's focused on being a Cardinal and that the Jays are no longer the front runners.
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Ron - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:42 PM EST (#134364) #
Blair was just on The Score:

- JP has twice delayed his press briefing. It's now scheduled for 6pm
- Thinks AJ still might go to the Cards. They won't budge from their 4 year offer. If he wants to a longer contract with more dollars he will sign with the Jays
- JP has spoken twice to Sanders's agent. He wants a contract longer than one year.
- Nat might be intereted in a Wilkerson for Batista trade.
- Threw out the usual names for bats i.e. Mench and Overbay
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RhyZa - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:42 PM EST (#134365) #
is that a fresh update or the pre Gammons take? Wouldn't surprise me in the least if it is the case though.
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Rickster - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:47 PM EST (#134366) #
Just posted in the Seattle Post Intelligencer:
Mariners miss out on coveted free agent pitcher
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/250852_mari05ww.html

Says AJ likely to Jays for 5/50-55M

I'd love to get Wilkerson - high OBP, some pop, plays 4 positions, lots of speeed and range. His power numbers were really hurt by RFK last year.

I think Batista would be great in Washington.
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Ryan B. - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:48 PM EST (#134367) #
Blair's comments on The Score were pre-recorded. Since then the news has broke about Burnett and the Jays, I was sceptical of the signing in the past but when I look at it, it's not my money and this team just got a hell of a lot better.

If the Jays can then flip Batista for Wilkerson and sign Sanders they'll have a much more solid line-up with Cat and Rios either up for trade or off the bench.

Another interesting topic discussed on Prime Time Sports was signing Burnett and then trying to get Zito from Oakland. I'm not sure if those numbers would work but if it happens, man, the Jays would have as good of a pitching staff as anyone in baseball.
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Rickster - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:53 PM EST (#134369) #
Sportsnet says AJ is flying in to Dallas. Source is Ken Rosenthal. They say the Jays final offer is on the table - 5/55 and it looks like AJ will accept.
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Mike D - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:55 PM EST (#134370) #
ESPN is reporting that the deal is not done, but close.
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R Billie - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:57 PM EST (#134371) #
JP has already said they do not want to give up multiple pitchers to get Zito when asked about the alternatives to not signing Burnett. If they actually sign him for big money, I have to think that makes Zito even less likely.

The only benefit to trading a lot for Zito would be if you can extend him a contract beyond this year. As we've seen, getting anyone to sign a reasonable contract in Toronto has proven exceedingly difficult.
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Sherrystar - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 06:58 PM EST (#134372) #
Man, this is crazy... but fun! How can one be expected to get any work done???

But until we have it made official, I'm not getting my hopes up too high... things could change fast...

Will check back here all night until something is final...
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BCMike - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:00 PM EST (#134373) #

Spending assets on Zito makes little sense if you get Burnett, you still need some bats. I don't see anyway to get Zito and a bat or two.

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VBF - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:01 PM EST (#134374) #
Elliot Friedman says there will be no 'official' announcement tonight.

Bob McCowan (our only Toronto source right now) is saying the deal is done, but I am inclined to go by a written, reliable source for the moment, and by all accounts the deal is not done.

I don't like the five years, but if it happens, is it the biggest Jays offseason ever?
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Rickster - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:03 PM EST (#134375) #
How does Friedman know anything?

Biggest off-season was 15 years ago - Fernandez and McGriff for Alomar and Carter.
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seeyou - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:04 PM EST (#134376) #
I really like the idea of Wilkinson, as long as it means not giving up too much more than Batista. He's a versatile, strong hitter, and he's LH, so he could platoon with Hinske at 1B. That would make Hinske one hell of an expensive platoon player, but if you can put Hinske up solely against RH and get close to the .811 OBP over 400 AB like he put up against rightys last year, it might be worth it.
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Rob - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:08 PM EST (#134377) #
I don't like the five years, but if it happens, is it the biggest Jays offseason ever?

I doubt December 5, 2005 will live up to December 5, 1990 as far as Blue Jay acquisitions are concerned.

I love BJ Ryan, but I'm not thrilled about Burnett. They didn't need him in the rotation as much as they needed a bat -- what's worse, Gustavo Chacin and Josh Towers as the #2 and #3 starters or Corey Koskie and Shea Hillenbrand as the #4 and #5 hitters?

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Ski - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:14 PM EST (#134379) #
Wow, I didn't realize it was 15 years ago today that the Jays pulled off the Blockbuster of the early 90's. Freaky timing there.
Still, even if they sign A.J, this year's Dec 5th still doesn't beat 05/12/90. I mean, come on, not only did they get Alomar and Carter, but they signed PAT TABLER too....and he's never left! (Unfortunatly, some TV fans might say....whatever happened to Joe Carter with Sportsnet?)
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RhyZa - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:15 PM EST (#134380) #
Maybe neither... I don't see the correlation between signing AJ and being paralyzed to make any moves to our batting order. A surplus of pitching, makes it very reasonable that someone Sanders (iffy on this one.. high k's, old, not the same protection than he had in the Cards lineup, odd year performer, despite a good SLG. could be headed for a major decline) and one of Wilkerson, Overbay, Mench via trade can still be acquired.
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John Northey - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:17 PM EST (#134382) #
If AJ is signed it is still not the biggest free agent offseason.

I'd rank 1992 as the biggest with Dave Winfield and Jack Morris being signed. Morris was coming off an 18 win season (124 ERA+) and a game 7 win in the WS (10 shutout IP). Winfield had 28 HR and 86 RBI - 262/326/472 in an era when no one in the AL slugged 600.

1993 is right there too with Paul Molitor (320/389/461) and Dave Stewart (2 years removed from his 4 20 win season streak, '92 was a 103 ERA+ season).

AJ's 117 ERA+, BJ with his 170 ERA+ and 36 saves are darn good and I'm happy to have them. Plus, unlike the two WS years they are actually in their prime. Still, neither are HOF locks unlike Winfield & Molitor, nor are they near HOF like Morris or multi-all-star level like Stewart (although he only made one AS team strangely enough).

1991's offseason was the best though, with THE TRADE and the White for Felix trade.
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garth - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:19 PM EST (#134384) #
If we could get Wilkerson for Batista and gross/chulk/etc I would do it in a heartbeat. In the Rogers center Wilkerson would really improve his numbers. Also, his salary is not overly high so we will still have flexibility to do more.

This offseason is getting more interesting by the minute
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Cristian - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:19 PM EST (#134385) #
I really like the idea of Wilkinson, as long as it means not giving up too much more than Batista. He's a versatile, strong hitter, and he's LH, so he could platoon with Hinske at 1B.

Hmmm...there's something wrong with this.

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Ron - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:22 PM EST (#134386) #
Blair said it's unlikely the Jays will be able to land a legit clean-up hitter.

It's very hard to aquire proven 30+ HR's bats that are still in their prime.

I wonder if JP has any interest in Sean Casey. He had a big season in 04 (.324/.381/.534) but slipped last season (.312/.371/.423). He can hit both LHP and RHP, and his road numbers were better than his home numbers last season. I believe he has one year left on his deal at 8.5 mil.

I expect the Reds would ask for young pitching.
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Rickster - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:27 PM EST (#134388) #
Casey = Wilkerson with less versatility in the field and a higher salary. I also think that the Reds are overvaluing all of their players, so would probably ask for McGowan.
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RhyZa - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:30 PM EST (#134389) #
Athletics acquired RHP Chad Gaudin from the Toronto Blue Jays for a player to be named.
It figured that someone would want him, and it's not much of a surprise that it's J.P.'s old boss. The A's probably won't have room for Gaudin at the start of next year, but he'll be an option in middle relief or maybe at the bottom of the rotation later on.

And there goes Chad to Billy B, colour me a little disappointed on this one.
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Sister - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:30 PM EST (#134390) #
From rotoworld:

Athletics acquired RHP Chad Gaudin from the Toronto Blue Jays for a player to be named.
It figured that someone would want him, and it's not much of a surprise that it's J.P.'s old boss. The A's probably won't have room for Gaudin at the start of next year, but he'll be an option in middle relief or maybe at the bottom of the rotation later on.
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RhyZa - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:32 PM EST (#134391) #
jinx... at first look I thought it was in the rule 5, I wonder who the PTBNL could be.
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Anders - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:37 PM EST (#134392) #
The Gaudin trade disapointed me a little bit. He has more worth than a PTBNL. Of course, it could be someone decent, and the Jays are just waiting until after the Rule 5.
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Flex - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:39 PM EST (#134393) #
Zito?

Nah, probably not.

But the Prime Time crew were talking about going for the pitching trifecta by getting Zito from Billy and worrying about hitting later. I have to say, much as we need a bat or two, I love that idea.
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Flex - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:41 PM EST (#134394) #
Drat. If someone could move Anders comment down below mine, that'd make my throwaway comment on Zito sensicle, as opposed to nonsensical.
Not funny, mind you, but sensicle.
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Ron - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:41 PM EST (#134395) #
If I'm not mistaken, I believe Gaudin was on the 40 man roster.

That should leave the Jays with one open spot ..... and we all know who that could be.
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HollywoodHartman - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:43 PM EST (#134396) #
And mistaken you are. Gaudin was DFA'd the other day.
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Anders - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:43 PM EST (#134397) #
Gaudin was dropped from the 40 to make room for BJ Ryan. Presumably, if this AJ thing goes through, they will need to open up another spot
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Rickster - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:43 PM EST (#134398) #
I think Gaudin was replaced by BJ Ryan, meaning he would have been exposed (and likely taken) in the Rule 5. This way they get something for him other thatn $25k.
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Ducey - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:43 PM EST (#134399) #
"He's a versatile, strong hitter, and he's LH, so he could platoon with Hinske at 1B."

Ah, no... they are both left handed hitters.

I am not sure of his arm, maybe Wilkerson could play right in a platoon with Rios? Rios would play against lefties and come in for defence late in games - a la Reed Johnson. Might be good way for Rios to get back in a groove.

If you got Wilkerson you likely still need a right handed power bat for DH or 1B to platoon with Hinske. If the Jays could pick up a lefty masher after Wilkerson - they might be all set:

LF Cat/ Reed
CF Wells
RF Wilkerson/ Rios
3B Koskie
SS Adams/ MacDonald (not sure he counts as a bat)
2B Hudson/ MacDonald
1B Hinske/ Lefty Masher
DH Hillenbrand
C Zaun/ GQ

Looks great - good flexibility - depth - and some decent platoons - except Hill is on the Farm and there are 14 position players on the roster - not sure the Jays will have a 11 man pitching staff - but they could:

Halladay
Burnett
Lilly
Chacin
Towers

Ryan
Speier
Fraser
Chulk
SS Loogy
Downs or Walker or Bush (long man)
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Ski - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:43 PM EST (#134400) #
Gaudin was moved off the 40-man, and designated for assignment to make room for BJ Ryan.
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Rickster - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:46 PM EST (#134401) #
Wilkerson's "D" is excellent. He has great range and a decent arm. I don't think Rios would be used as a defensive replacement.
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bobbycola - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:48 PM EST (#134402) #
uggh! I can't take this! I still can't decide whether or not this whole Burnett situation is a good idea. I somehow think that he's only gonna last a couple of years and we should get a power bat instead but I dunno...
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Anders - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 07:49 PM EST (#134403) #
On the World Baseball front, Andruw Jones is going to be playing for the Netherlands, because he's from Curacao, a part of the Netherlands Antilles.

Makes you wish Canada was a colonial power.
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Mike Forbes - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:00 PM EST (#134405) #
AJ Mania seems to have reached a fever pitch.. My only cure for this insanity is a nice warm shower.. Hopefully there'll be some clarity on the issue when I get out!
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Pistol - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:06 PM EST (#134406) #
I was a little disappointed to see Gaudin taken off the 40 man roster, but he would have had to make the team next year and that didn't look likely at this point so to get something for him is better than nothing. It's likely that the player the Jays get will be someone that doesn't have to go on the 40 man roster, so maybe it's a Class A guy drafted in 2004.

Gaudin would have only been on available for the Rule 5 draft if no one claimed him on waivers first.
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Jabes - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:07 PM EST (#134407) #
I think the most important question is:

Will Buck Martinez try to get Barry Bonds to bunt at the WBC?
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RhyZa - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:08 PM EST (#134408) #
uggh! I can't take this! I still can't decide whether or not this whole Burnett situation is a good idea. I somehow think that he's only gonna last a couple of years and we should get a power bat instead but I dunno...

There are no power bats available, to me this would be a good investment/risk. We wouldn't be 'overpaying' terribly (considering inflation, and how the contract might be structured)), although by 1 year arguably, and if not on AJ then we would end up either sitting on the money or spending on a few bit parts instead as there is not a whole lot else available (and no comparable hitter now that Giles is gone) that could help us once AJ is off the table. This is the biggest improvement we could make, as our trading chips would not land us anyone who could make nearly as big of an impact as Burnett would (but they can acquire bats comparable, if not better to those available in the FA market). The way I see it, the only way one still views this as a bad move is if they are totally down on AJ and his prospects in the future.
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Alexander - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:11 PM EST (#134409) #
RE: CANADIAN ROSTER

Gents,

I have not had the opportunity to watch Jesse Crain pitch - what I know of him is purely stats-based. What kind of pitcher is he? How does he manage to get people out? (Very low k rate.)

Cheers
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bobbycola - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:13 PM EST (#134410) #
Yea, I suppose you're right. I just have a gut feeling he's not gonna last those five years. I realize that giving him a 5y contract is likely the only way we can sign him, but some part of me thinks he's just gonna be plagued with injuries down the road... but I could be wrong.
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Mike D - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:15 PM EST (#134411) #
Alexander, here are a couple of excerpts from our Advance Scout columns last week on the Twins:

* Jesse Crain: Good two-seam fastball, which he uses to coax grounders ... Throws a four-seam fastball in the low 90s that he locates well, usually just off the plate away ... Needs to work on the corners and off the plate, because his stuff isn't dominant ... Throws the curve with two strikes, but seldom earlier in the count ...

You can browse through the Advance Scout columns for yourself by using the "TOPICS" tab on the left-hand margin here at Batter's Box.
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Pistol - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:16 PM EST (#134412) #
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5141070

Here's the latest from Rosenthal:

*** The Blue Jays have increased their offer to free-agent right-hander A.J. Burnett, putting the ball squarely in the Cardinals' court. Toronto's deal is believed to be for five years and somewhere in the $52.5-to-55 million range. That's up from five years, $50 million. There are still additional details of the deal that would need to be negotiated, (i.e. perks, structure). St. Louis has reportedly offered Burnett a four-year deal worth $40 million. The Rangers and Nationals remain on the fringes of the Burnett sweepstakes.
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jmoney - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:18 PM EST (#134413) #
Well the Burnett Soap Opera takes another twist and turn.

http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/474652.html

Scout writer for St. Louis mentioned that Cards ownership has authorized Jocketty to go five years on Burnett.

This kid must have some special powers to have an organization overhaul its rules for him.
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Ron - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:19 PM EST (#134414) #
The host (don't know his name) on MLB radio is saying AJ is signing with the Jays.

I believe JP is talking with the Jays reporters right now.
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Blue in SK - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:20 PM EST (#134415) #
Sorry kids, looks like we have to wait yet another day.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2248966

Seems to me that AJ wants to give the Cards every opportunity possible.
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Pistol - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:37 PM EST (#134416) #
The link has been updated with the GM commenting:

"Blue Jays general manager J.P. Ricciardi told reporters that no further discussions were scheduled for Monday night or Tuesday morning. He also said the Blue Jays haven't established a deadline for Burnett to say yes.

"We want a resolution just so we can move forward," Ricciardi said. "But we've gone this far. Another few days won't hurt."

Ricciardi said he's not frustrated that Toronto has been unable to wrap up Burnett even with a five-year contract offer"
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King Ryan - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:40 PM EST (#134417) #
Well, I hope you guys like watching Eric Hinske play first base and Corey Koskie batting cleanup, because that's what we're going to have for the next five goddamn years.
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bobbycola - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:40 PM EST (#134418) #
Well, that seems pretty conclusive. Maybe now I can get some work done tonight!
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Twilight - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:40 PM EST (#134419) #
Something to consider...

Burnett pre-TJ surgery:
12-9
3.30
204.3 IP
153 H
12 HR
90 BB
203 SO

Burnett post-TJ surgery:
Year 1:
7-6
3.68
120.0 IP
102 H
9 HR
38 BB
113 SO

year 2:
12-12
3.44
209.0 IP
184 H
12 HR
79 BB
198 SO

What do I intend to show with these numbers? Simple. Something that might shock and discredit you.

I'm not wearing a tie at all! [/simpsons]

Ok, ok, in all seriousness, AJ has recovered from TJ. He's back and in original form. He has been set back a couple of years, so he still has a year or two to perfect his mechanics and his pitches. I especially like that his walk count is down from his pre-TJ year in more innings, showing that his control is ever-so-slightly improving. Also, yes, he was in a pitcher's park. But AJ gets a lot of ground balls. And what does the Toronto defense like? Oh yeah.

Unless someone has hacked some computers are posted his medical records on the Internet that shows he actually has a structural bone disease, I don't see what the huge fuss is about injury. I think it is likely he could serve the Jays for five years. Plus he will give us a world of depth which is what we need. A starting rotation of Halladay, Burnett, Lilly, Chacin, and Towers is going to give other teams no breathing room at all. And it's even possible that we could have every starter posting a sub-4.00 ERA.

I'm excited about this coming year.
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bobbycola - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:44 PM EST (#134420) #
<i>Well, I hope you guys like watching Eric Hinske play first base and Corey Koskie batting cleanup, because that's what we're going to have for the next five goddamn years.</i>

How do ya figure?
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bobbycola - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:45 PM EST (#134421) #
^^oops, sorry about that..

but you get the idea
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Donkit R.K. - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:45 PM EST (#134422) #
I am against signing AJ Burnett and have been from the beginning because I thought the pricetag would get too high...
However, if we can sign him for no more than 5/55 *and* we can move Batista for Wilkerson or trade 2 of Chacin/Bush/Lilly/Batista/Frasor for Bobby Abreu than I will forgive JP. Not only will I forgive him, I think I might actually develop an unhealthy man love for him ;-).
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Nick - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:46 PM EST (#134423) #
"Well, I hope you guys like watching Eric Hinske play first base and Corey Koskie batting cleanup, because that's what we're going to have for the next five goddamn years."

I'm not too big on the Burnett signing either, but I don't see how this signing (if it happens) leads to the Jays signing Hinske and Koskie to 3-year extensions each.

Let's keep in mind that we don't know what the budget will look like going forward or what trades will bring. All the pieces are not in place yet. But I agree, the offense probably won't have enough juice. Then again, the White Sox didn't score a ton of runs this year either.
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Nick - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:50 PM EST (#134424) #
Despite the need for additional offense, it would seem counterproductive to trade Hudson after acquiring a GB pitcher like Burnett.

I'm still holding off on all this for the most part though. I still think AJ's going to St. Louis. We'll see.
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andrewkw - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:51 PM EST (#134425) #
MLB radio is "banking" on the 5 year 55 million deal and as far as they are concerned that its a done deal. They seem pretty high on the jays in general.
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King Ryan - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:54 PM EST (#134426) #
I didn't mean literally Hinske and Koskie, I meant players LIKE them.

Don't you guys realize that by blowing his wad on AJ and BJ, JP takes himself out of the running for next years FA market? How exactly are we ever going to get a big hitter when we're spending HALF our payroll on AJ, BJ, and Roy (sounds like a Jobu sitcom...)

I can just see next years free agency. Some awesome hitter will be available to sign, and the best the Jays can offer him is 7M/year because they have too much money going to Burnett and Ryan. I could live with this if Burnett was an ace, but he's NOT. No matter how much you want to spin it. This is a guy that has never been otherworldly in his career. He is not Roy Halladay or Pedro Martinez. His career ERA is 3.78. That's pitching his whole career in the NL in a pitcher's park.

I really just do not like this at all. Hopefully St. Louis offers a 7 year deal or something absurd.
[ Reply to This ]
westcoast dude - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:54 PM EST (#134427) #
C'mon Cardinals, take the bait. We're being played like a violin by AJ's agent; I truly thought Ricciardi had more talent than this. Scott Downs could pitch better for about 50 million less.
[ Reply to This ]
MattAtBat - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 08:56 PM EST (#134429) #
I think Burnett is going to the Cards, too. Maybe its just years of being shunned by free agents that makes me skeptical. Or maybe it's the fact he is even CONSIDERING a 4/40 deal from the Cards when the Jays are offering 5/55.

Either way, until JP or Derek Braunecker (who I'm beginning to dislike greatly, and I have a feeling JP feels the same way) tells someone its a done deal with the Jays, I'll remain skeptical.

I think this will come down to the St. Louis Cardinals values: are they willing to bend all the rules by TWO years to get Burnett?

MY GUESS (just intuition) is that their final offer will be somewhere higher than 4/40 (perhaps 4/42?) and a very easily vested fifth year. Burnett will say yes to that.
[ Reply to This ]
Nick - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:05 PM EST (#134430) #
King Ryan - I definitely see your point and share some of that same fear. I don't understand the rush to spend every dime right now and the future be damned. They might very well regret it next year. We'll see what happens. I still think AJ will be a Cardinal. Nothing against Toronto, but St. Louis might be the baseball city in North America and if he grew up with an attachment to the Cards, I would be surprised if he spurned the chance to play there. It's a similar reason to when I was fairly confident Giles would stay in California. Just like Giles, if AJ was gung ho on Toronto, he would have signed by now. He's giving St. Louis too many opportunities and I think eventually the Cards will bite.
[ Reply to This ]
Kieran - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:06 PM EST (#134431) #
I really want Burnett, but doesn't it tell you something when he has the offer he wants from one team (Jays) but is holding out for the other team (StL) to match or come close? Doesn't that tell us he'd rather pitch for them?

I hope I'm wrong...

Batista & Chacin & Rios for Abreu? Is that reasonable?
[ Reply to This ]
bobbycola - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:10 PM EST (#134433) #
^^ I don't think so, only because chacin and rios still have tons of potential to become a solid 2 or 3 man (chacin) and a hitter with some good pop (rios)
[ Reply to This ]
MattAtBat - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:10 PM EST (#134434) #
i'd rather have burrell's contract than abreu's.
[ Reply to This ]
Donkit R.K. - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:13 PM EST (#134435) #
...but wouldn't you rather have Abreu's bat than Burrel's? If the Jays can afford Abreu ahead of Burrel money-wise, I don't think its even close...
[ Reply to This ]
Rich - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:15 PM EST (#134436) #
Could Zito be the PTBNL in the Gaudin deal?
[ Reply to This ]
Flex - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:16 PM EST (#134437) #
I already made that joke.
[ Reply to This ]
Rich - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:19 PM EST (#134438) #
Sorry, I'm a bit slow today (not that it's any different from most days).

Here's a thought on Batista-Wilkerson: if Bowden won't bite, add Russ Adams to the deal. I know JP would be loathe to deal his first-ever draft pick, but Hill is a better player and the Nats could desperately use a shortstop.
[ Reply to This ]
Anders - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:28 PM EST (#134439) #
Brad Wilkerson strikes out a lot, walks a lot, and hits a lot of doubles. Kindof like that Eric Hinske guy. And he had the worst year of his career last year.
[ Reply to This ]
Ryan Day - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:34 PM EST (#134440) #
I can just see next years free agency. Some awesome hitter will be available to sign, and the best the Jays can offer him is 7M/year because they have too much money going to Burnett and Ryan.

Next year? You mean when the Jays will no longer be paying at least several, if not all, of Hillenbrand, Catalanotto, Batista, Speier, Schoenweis and Lily?

And besides, there was an awesome hitter on the market this year, and by all accounts the Jays offered him a better deal than anyone else. He still signed somewhere else.

[ Reply to This ]
VGeras - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:36 PM EST (#134441) #
That St.Louis site posted last night an agreement has been reached...they are just trying to cover their ass.

ESPN screwed up as well tonight

Foxsports.com and insidethedome.com are the most reliable.

Right after the gammons report came out (stupid idiot) insidethedome said itis a premature report.

[ Reply to This ]
Lefty - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:39 PM EST (#134442) #
Just to wade in here with my two cents worth.

My guts tell me that Ricciardi has put his best offer on the table and booked out today. Hence his comments that there is no drop dead date.

I think it is a clear message to his agent. "We like your client, give us a call if you think he wants to play for the Jays, but make no mistake, thats our best offer."
[ Reply to This ]
SK in NJ - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:41 PM EST (#134443) #
The quicker AJ signs with St. Louis, the quicker the Jays can move on to more pressing issues.

Seriously, I've never been more annoyed by a free agent courting before, and we're not even talking about Roy Halladay type talent. This is AJ "I can't even outpitch Josh Towers in my best season" Burnett!

End the madness, AJ.
[ Reply to This ]
King Ryan - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:42 PM EST (#134444) #
Next year? You mean when the Jays will no longer be paying at least several, if not all, of Hillenbrand, Catalanotto, Batista, Speier, Schoenweis and Lily?

The problem is that all of those players would need to be replaced. These are my estimates for those players' salaries. Correct me if I'm wrong:

Hillenbrand: 3M
Catalanotto: 3M
Batista: 6M
Speier: 2M
Schoe: 2M
Lilly: 3M

Total: 19M. So you may think...wow! That gives us 19M to play with. That should be enough to acquire a slugger! But we'd need to get more than a slugger. That 19M would have to go towards replacing Speier, Shoeneweis, Lilly, Catalanotto and Hillenbrand. The slugger would probably only replace Hillenbrand. So realisticly, once you've filled all the other holes you only have like 10M that you can offer the slugger.

Sidenote: I want a baseball player to legally change his name to "THE SLUGGER." That would be kind of awesome. Kind of like Ultimare Warrior, except he has issues.

[ Reply to This ]
RhyZa - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:44 PM EST (#134445) #
conspiracy theory alert: Gammons probably just wanted to get the ball rolling on driving the price up on AJ, to hurt the Jays which in a round about way would help his team, the Sox... reputation be damned, then again he can probably spin doctor it saying the Cards came with a late offer after his initial report yadda yadda yadda. ; )

[ Reply to This ]
Mike Green - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:46 PM EST (#134446) #
To distract oneself from pending aggravation, there's nothing like a parlour game. If A.J. had a chocolate bar like Reggie and Baby Ruth, what would it be? A Burnett Almond?
[ Reply to This ]
jsut - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:46 PM EST (#134447) #
King Ryan, i don't think we'll need to replace half of those guys through free agency. I'd be surpised if more than three were.
[ Reply to This ]
Achtungbaby - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:48 PM EST (#134448) #
This is off-topic but I haven't been able to find this information anywhere else so please bear with me and it won't happen again.

Does anyone here who is familar with the Rogers Centre have a better description for what the renovations to Rogers Centre are going to look like?

Here's the link

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051116&content_id=1268951&vkey=news_tor&fext=.jsp&c_id=tor

I just don't understand what they are talking about doing. I've only been to SkyDome/Rogers Centre once before so I can't visualize it.

Thanks
[ Reply to This ]
Wildrose - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:50 PM EST (#134449) #
Both Gammons and Rosenthal are reporting the Cards are now at 4 years /$48 million (source ESPN/SportsNet).
[ Reply to This ]
greenfrog - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:51 PM EST (#134450) #
Wow, all kinds of rumours. I've gotta say, I don't like the way AJ and his agent have handled negotiations--all this playing of a few teams off each other. It definitely looks like AJ wants to sign in St. Louis for 5 years (maybe 4 plus an option year), and has been using the Jays to leverage some extra cash and years out of the Cardinals. Part of me would love it if both teams backed off and left AJ to the M's and Nationals.

What a contrast to BJ Ryan, who visited Toronto, openly stated how impressed he was, checked out a few other options, then cut a deal a couple of weeks later.
[ Reply to This ]
Pistol - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:51 PM EST (#134452) #
"Toronto general manager J.P. Ricciardi said the Blue Jays went as far as they would go with Burnett, who likely will get a four- or five-year deal in the $10-million to $11-million range"

http://tinyurl.com/dpa8t
[ Reply to This ]
Flex - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:51 PM EST (#134453) #
I think we need new news to talk about. When's Blair gonna update his damn blog? It's been almost a week. What's a blog for if not to add to it endlessly and obsessively?
[ Reply to This ]
Anders - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:54 PM EST (#134454) #
You know, this budget kindof stuff can be checked remarkably well. Like, on this website.

http://www.battersbox.ca/article.php?story=2005112722563997

Also, if there is one thing the Jays are not going to need to pay for additionally during the next 3/4 seasons, its bullpen help. The rotation is going to be pretty set too - Towers/Chacin/Burnett/Roy, and then guys like Jackson, Purcey, McGowan, heck Downs
[ Reply to This ]
RhyZa - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:55 PM EST (#134456) #
"What's a blog for if not to add to it endlessly and obsessively?"

haha, exactly.
[ Reply to This ]
timpinder - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:55 PM EST (#134457) #
I don't know why so many people think signing Burnett suddenly means we can't get a big bat. They were going after Burnett AND Giles, remember? The money's there, especialy if they could dump (via trade) $10 million owed to Batista and Hinske or Koskie.

You don't think Chacin/Batista/Frasor/Adams and a couple minor league pitching prospects gets a big bat!? If I needed pitching like the Rangers and Phillies do, I'd do that trade for Blalock or Abreu.

If they can sign Burnett for 5 years $55 million, I will be elated. Only about $50.00 of that money is mine anyways(Roger's movie rental late fees).
[ Reply to This ]
Flex - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:55 PM EST (#134458) #
Ohmygod, Blair just updated his damn blog.
[ Reply to This ]
Rob - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:56 PM EST (#134459) #
When's Blair gonna update his damn blog? It's been almost a week.

If by "a week" you mean "less than an hour" then I guess you're right. And quite impatient. :)

[ Reply to This ]
Rich - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 09:56 PM EST (#134460) #
It's fair to argue that Hinske and Wilkerson's 2005 seasons were very similar. But the numbers in the 3 prior years paint a different picture:

Wilkerson OPS 2002-04: .839 / .844 / .872
Hinske OPS 2002-04: .846 / .766 / .687

Wilkerson is also a good defender. There is no comparison between the two. They've both been in the bigs for 4 years and in that time Wilkerson has had 3 good years and 1 bad one, while Hinske has had 1 good year (his first) and 3 bad ones. Wilkerson would be a significant upgrade over Rios.
[ Reply to This ]
Named For Hank - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:00 PM EST (#134462) #
When's Blair gonna update his damn blog? It's been almost a week. What's a blog for if not to add to it endlessly and obsessively?

I think his blog is for the material that doesn't fit into his columns, and he's been averaging what, a couple of columns a day? It's fairly interchangeable, though his funny asides in his blog (and in Blair On Baseball, which I think has been replaced until baseball returns with Duhatschek On Hockey) are a lot of fun. His straight-up reporting is fine, but I love his opinion stuff. As I'm sure I mention at least once a week.

Also, it's funny what happens on Mondays when I'm away from all media for like ten straight hours.
[ Reply to This ]
King Ryan - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:05 PM EST (#134463) #
You know, this budget kindof stuff can be checked remarkably well. Like, on this website.

I apologize for not doing my homework better, but I didn't because the exact numbers weren't relevant to my point. My point being that any players you lose have to be replaced.

I understand that some of them can be replaced internally, but a lot of them won't be. Not a very high percentage of prospects actually produce the way you want them to, unfortunately. I just don't like giving up so much of our flexibility to a guy that really won't improve the club substantially (in my opinion.)

[ Reply to This ]
Achtungbaby - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:06 PM EST (#134464) #
Even if Burnett doesn't live up to a 55 million dollar contract there is always the Yankees to dump him on if we have to. They always seem willing to take on bad contracts because money is no object to them. As long as JP isn't inking these guys with no trade clauses we should be fine.
[ Reply to This ]
Pistol - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:06 PM EST (#134465) #
Reminder - please link and summarize stories, but do not post stories in their entirety.
[ Reply to This ]
VBF - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:07 PM EST (#134466) #
So I guess that article was written before the Cardinals gave another offer of 48 million for four years, non?

It's tough deciphering which news is new.

If the Cradinals have just offered Burnett the 48 million/4 year contract AFTER that article was written, that really puts the Jays chances at a low.

[ Reply to This ]
Wildrose - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:07 PM EST (#134467) #
Blair's latest for those late to the party. Gagne on Team Canada, I'm happy.
[ Reply to This ]
Anders - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:10 PM EST (#134468) #
"Both Gammons and Rosenthal are reporting the Cards are now at 4 years /$48 million (source ESPN/SportsNet)."

Any link on this?

Because this recent Rosenthal article http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5141070 indicates that these numbers are hardly concrete

"There are indications that the Cardinals might be willing to go to five years, or they could counter by offering a higher average salary on a shorter term — say, $48 million over four years."
[ Reply to This ]
Wildrose - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:10 PM EST (#134469) #
I trust Blair more than any other source. After all he did more or less call the Ryan signing.
[ Reply to This ]
RhyZa - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:10 PM EST (#134470) #
my bad, couldn't edit after the fact. But anyway it does sound like the implication is that our offer has been made and that it is final.


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2248966

"When you get involved with this, you know it's a long process," said Blue Jays general manager J.P. Ricciardi, who was thought to be closing in Monday on a five-year, $55 million contract with the free agent right-hander. "It's no slam dunk. Everybody wants things to happen fast. Sometimes it just doesn't go at the pace you want it to go at."

"We want a resolution just so we can move forward," Ricciardi said. "But we've gone this far. Another few days won't hurt."
[ Reply to This ]
Wildrose - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:15 PM EST (#134471) #
It was reported on T.V., so no link possible, both parties stated the same figure on different network reports from Texas.
[ Reply to This ]
Sherrystar - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:16 PM EST (#134472) #
This entire thing is a just a front for Burnett and his agent to use the Jays to get what they want from the Cards.

This is such a joke! It's making me so angry/frustrated. I feel so used

Withdraw your offer J.P.!
[ Reply to This ]
BrockLanders - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:17 PM EST (#134473) #
The Blue Jay organization is being utilized as a crowbar in these turbid negotiatations. Do we really think that Braunpecker and Burnett would have offered the jays the option to counter a day later if the shoe was on the other foot?? This is preposterous.
[ Reply to This ]
Keith Talent - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:18 PM EST (#134474) #

If the Cradinals have just offered Burnett the 48 million/4 year contract AFTER that article was written, that really puts the Jays chances at a low.

Why? The Jays offer is $7M more gauranteed. I don't see how anyone could walk away from seven million dollars.

[ Reply to This ]
crush_99 - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:22 PM EST (#134475) #
Interesting to see the cards fans take on the AJ signing. Looks like they are slaming JP big time. Check out the following card blog:

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/

The only thing I agree with is this whole thing seems amateurish - I don't know who is to blame for that (AJ's agent?)
[ Reply to This ]
VBF - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:22 PM EST (#134476) #
That comment was on the basis of Rosenthal's comments with Jamie Campbell that constantly gets replayed on SNET which was probably filmed at 6-7pm. (Just to keep track of what is new).

He basically said that even if the 5th year isn't guaranteed, a general increase per year could very well be sufficient in prying Burnett from the Jays.

But in all fairness, this tiring saga is really testing my patience and trust with the media. so I have no idea who is right.
[ Reply to This ]
Wildrose - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:25 PM EST (#134477) #
Relax fellas... this is how the game is played. It's the agents job to maximize his clients value. Frankly would any of us turn down such money?
[ Reply to This ]
Donkit R.K. - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:26 PM EST (#134478) #
Does the writer at the Cards blog think JP is AJ's agent? So much for their credibility...
Or does AJ's agent just look remarkably like JP?
[ Reply to This ]
Sherrystar - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:26 PM EST (#134479) #
"This is preposterous"


Agreed. I'm going to bed. This Burnett thing has wasted too much of my time. It's wasted even more of J.P.'s!
[ Reply to This ]
King Ryan - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:30 PM EST (#134480) #
Interesting to see the cards fans take on the AJ signing. Looks like they are slaming JP big time. Check out the following card blog:

Where are they "slaming" (sic) JP?

[ Reply to This ]
VBF - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:30 PM EST (#134481) #
I think that Cards board thinks the picture of JP is the Braunecker.
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Lefty - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:32 PM EST (#134482) #
Thats exactly right Wildrose.

This is not the time for the faint of heart.

As mentioned above, my view is Ricciardi has it all on the table now - with the exception of moving dollars around - and has walked away from the table.

Thats the art of the deal. If Burnett bites then fine, if he walks thats fine too.

Relax.

[ Reply to This ]
jmoney - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:34 PM EST (#134483) #
Yeah those guys are confused as to who the agent is and who the Jays gm is.
[ Reply to This ]
TamRa - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:35 PM EST (#134484) #
I can just see next years free agency. Some awesome hitter will be available to sign, and the best the Jays can offer him is 7M/year because they have too much money going to Burnett and Ryan.

Actually, that's completely untrue.

Looking at the 2007 roster and payroll, if we assume all current players returning who are under contract EXCEPT free agents (Lily, Schoe, Speier, Cat Batista, Zaun)...
and we resign Zaun....
and have at some point traded Hudson...
and make reasonable guesses about the pre-arbitration contracts and the deals with arbitration eligable Reed Johnson and John McDonald...

We can confidently project that with Burnett making 9 million in the first year of this deal we'd have a commitment of about $60 million so far for 2007.

Now obviously if we add Wilkerson or some other available hitter that goes up some, but we are not really close to tapped out for 2007.

And after that, in 2008, you have Hinske and Koskie's combined $11 million plus coming off the books - more than enough to resign Doc and Vernon (assuming you want to resign Vernon) - that's assuming the payroll remains at least $80 million per.

It seems unlikely that Rogers would authorize 5 year deals if that wasn't going to be the case, and it could even conceivably go UP after 2007.

Long story short, these two deals do not AT ALL tie our hands next offseason. And JP would have to have a pretty impressive rest of the off-season (read: acquire Adam Dunn or another expensive slugger) to even make the situation in any remote doubt.

By the way, since you brought it up, the only player who's a break-the-bank sort of hitter coming up next winter is Derek Lee. Not counting guys with options which are likely to be picked up.

I feel confident in saying that nothing done so far this winter would stay JP's hand from paying the price to sign Lee....and reasonably confident in saying he'll never make it to Free agency before the Cubs pony up to keep him.

[ Reply to This ]
JayWay - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:38 PM EST (#134485) #
This morning it was a sure thing he was a Card.

This evening it was a sure thing he was a Jay

At one point the deal was set to be sealed "sometime tonight". Then it was "in the next hour". Now it's "in the next few days... these things take time."

I mean really, what the ****?

I've been in the position of being the recipient of inside information. I know that in the world of sports, things change. What was a sure thing one day can quickly fall apart the next. I sympathize with journalists because fans often perceive this as proof of a reporter's lack of credibility, when if they knew the reality of the sports world they'd know this is just how things work. But for so many shifts (and not just shifts, but *extreme* shifts) to take place in one day suggests that something more is going on here. It's obvious both sides are being jerked around.

It's obvious from JP's comments that he's fed up. It's apparent from what's being said here and on some of the Card sites that the fans are fed up. According to Blair, a lot of the press is fed up. It seems like this guy has pissed off a lot of people and his reputation may never be the same.
[ Reply to This ]
crush_99 - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:38 PM EST (#134486) #
ahh my bad.. a little further reading and your right the comment is about the agent not JP - still it is interesting to see the card's fans views...
[ Reply to This ]
VBF - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:41 PM EST (#134487) #
Okay Jays fans, we have a problem. You see, on that network of MLB blogs, the only team to not be represented is the Jays. Somebody needs to step up :)
[ Reply to This ]
Newton - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:44 PM EST (#134488) #
It's a shame the Jays don't play the Cards this year.

If we don't get AJ I'd plunk him after this fiasco.

If we do get him I'll forget it all very quickly.

We might just need Larry Bertuzzi to decide who gets this chump by the end.
[ Reply to This ]
R Billie - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:44 PM EST (#134489) #
Rotoworld reports the Nationals are late additions to the race offering 4 years for around $40 million. Since they definately satisfy his wife's preference for location you have to figure that makes them players.

It looks like the deal the Jays offered which is five years guaranteed and worth up to $55 million is the last offer they are going to make.
[ Reply to This ]
Lefty - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:45 PM EST (#134490) #
It doesn't matter who's pissed off today, it will all be forgotten when this guys signs. Whats the problem with the player taking another day or so to determine where he will work for the next four or five years.

[ Reply to This ]
Keith Talent - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:46 PM EST (#134491) #

That comment was on the basis of Rosenthal's comments with Jamie Campbell

Ken "Astros in 7" Rosental. That is all ye need to know.

[ Reply to This ]
Named For Hank - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:46 PM EST (#134492) #
Does anyone here who is familar with the Rogers Centre have a better description for what the renovations to Rogers Centre are going to look like?

As someone intimately familiar with Rogers Centre, it's hard for me to picture what's hard for you to picture about it. But I'll try to explain anyways.

First: the concourse the indoor area where you walk around to get to your seats and where you buy hot dogs and flags and whatever else. Right now it's kind of ugly: dim, all concrete, dull, boring. And crowded. So the plan is to remove the three rows of seats that are furthest from the field on the lower level and then extend the concourse out to where those seats were. Those seats weren't great anyways because the second level hung overtop of them and made it hard to see fly balls or the big screen.

Second: the second deck. This is the "club level", the fancy seats on the deck between the field level and the cheap seats. They're higher up, but have a good view because of the overhang. The actual seats were more comfortable because they were padded and spaced out a bit more, and the concessions were laid out like a bar and restaurant instead of little stands. Apparently they're going to reduce the number of seats on this level, make the restaurant better (and add a buffet), and overall make it more "exclusive", whatever that means. I've always enjoyed the occasional trip to the 200 level, and now it sounds like it'll be even fancier.

Third: some of the box seats are being torn out and turned into fewer, larger, more luxurious boxes, for hosting larger parties.

Hope that helps. If not, ask me specific questions and I'll answer as specifically as I can.
[ Reply to This ]
BrockLanders - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:48 PM EST (#134493) #
If JP does sign with the jays, he and his agent better break out the "No Comment" schtick or flat out lie. Since its obvious that Toronto is their 3rd or 4th choice.
[ Reply to This ]
BrockLanders - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:50 PM EST (#134494) #
I mean AJ. These initialed names are driving me bonkers. BJ and the bear.. AJ and the bird. JP and his pimp suit. Time for sleep
[ Reply to This ]
Keith Talent - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:52 PM EST (#134495) #
IMO it's just NUTS to consider his wife's preference for the Washington DC area because of family when the difference is 15 MILLION EXTRA DOLLARS!

When you're talking this much money, I don't think that's a consideration any more.
[ Reply to This ]
VBF - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:52 PM EST (#134496) #
Lefty, I think alot of people are feeling used right now--not just the fact that Burnett's going from team to team getting offers, but the fact that there's a possibility that he was never serious about playing in Toronto and it was an act the whole time. Burnett may have taken advantage of a team with a big wad of cash and high hopes, with the intention to crash their dreams.

People believe that AJ just wanted to get in the Jays' pants.

I disagree. I think he was serious about playing here on account of the Arnsberg factor (which is clearly not as strong was we thought) and if that seriousness was lost, it may have been in the last couple days, just to squeeze the extra 5 million from the Cards which I have less of a problem with.

[ Reply to This ]
VBF - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:53 PM EST (#134497) #
Ken "Astros in 7" Rosental. That is all ye need to know.

I can't believe I missed that :)

[ Reply to This ]
Jordan - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 10:56 PM EST (#134498) #
Now this is what the Winter Meetings are all about!

Blair makes a good point about how everyone, not just the Cards and Jays, are waiting on Burnett's decision, because a lot of dominoes will fall once he makes up his mind. I get the feeling the Jays have a deal or two already set to go no matter what the result is.

I very much like the line JP seems to have set down with Braunecker: here is our final offer, and you're not getting a penny more or a day longer. We'd love to have you, but at this point, whether you want to sign with us on those terms is entirely up to you. This offer is open, but it is not open indefinitely.

Braunecker can't afford to overplay his hand -- this is his first big agent and this could make his career. But Burnett may genuinely be having trouble deciding. The Cardinals are his boyhood team, they've just been to the Series, and they're one hell of an attractive franchise to play for. But the Jays are offering more money, they're clearly a team on the rapid rise, and his favourite pitching coach in the world works for them. If I were Burnett, I'd be having a hard time deciding too. I wonder if he looks at his former rotation mate Carl Pavano, who took the highest bid to play in New York and had a miserable year; Pavano's agent was in the exact same position as Braunecker this time last year, and Pavano eventually fired that agent. So, aggravating as this is for fans and teams, I also can't really blame Burnett for taking all his available time to make the biggest decision of his career.

Put me down as supporting a possible acquisition of Brad Wilkerson; he's been one of my favourites since I saw him play a fearless left field for the Ottawa Lynx. He'll never come close to hitting .300 and he whiffs a ton, but he has legitimate power (20-30 HRs, 35-40 doubles) and a very solid batting eye (80-100 walks). He's Adam Dunn Lite, and both expectations and the cost to acquire him ought to be tempered accordingly.

Abreu is of course an elite player, but the cost in both young talent and salary it would take to get him means this is probably not a route the Jays ought to pursue at this time.

Blair's blog entry is brilliant -- I get the feeling he'd be a terrific guy to sit and watch a game with over a few beers: indightful and entertaining. Looking forward to tomorrow -- this is great fun.

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Ron - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 11:10 PM EST (#134499) #
I have to give credit to Braunecker. He's done an excellent job for AJ so far. When AJ visited Toronto he said he was looking for 4 or 5 years. His agent has managed to get a team (BJ's)that is willing to offer a 5 year deal to a career sub .500 pitcher. Better yet the offer is suppose to be around 55 million.

Even if AJ spurns the Jays, he won't get less than 40 mil. And according to my calculation, that means Braunecker will pocket at least 2 million for his work.
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JayWay - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 11:11 PM EST (#134500) #
Has anyone seen or heard any hard evidence of the Cards upping their offer to 48/5? Mylegacy suggested earlier that this was the case, but I've not seen anything to back this up.
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Wildrose - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 11:12 PM EST (#134501) #
After Jordan's apt comments I'm going to bed. I absolutely LOVE the winter meetings.
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SK in NJ - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 11:31 PM EST (#134502) #
From Rotoworld:

"Milton Bradley could be on his way to the A's for right-hander Kirk Saarloos and left-hander Mario Ramos.
Rumors are floating that it's a done deal. The A's official site says only that the team has offered Saarloos and another player to the Dodgers for Bradley. If the A's get Bradley, they could play Nick Swisher at first base and use Dan Johnson as a DH. Another option would be to trade Jay Payton or Mark Kotsay and continue to pursue a designated hitter."

That's all it will take to get Bradley? Wow. Beane always finds a way to add the undervalued in a depressed market (assuming the report is true, of course).
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MattAtBat - Monday, December 05 2005 @ 11:41 PM EST (#134503) #
Is Burnett Playing the Jays?

A good article, and (surprisingly) its from CBS Sportsline. It's written by someone who understands how we Jays fans feel. Just a bit depressing.

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jgadfly - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 12:09 AM EST (#134504) #
Any ideas as to whether Arnsberg is parked or is he participating in the discussions...either way, the proverbial rock and a hard place...here's an idea, tell AJ that if he wins a CY and fulfills his destiny under the tuteledge of buddy Arnsberger then the Jays would trade him to St. Louis for Carpenter in 2 yrs time ...this would make Chris' friend Roy very happy and he would sign another contract with the J's at a discount !...DIT (dreaming in technicolour)
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VBF - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 01:10 AM EST (#134507) #
I know we've been down this road before.

Ken Rosenthal reported 25 minutes ago that Burnett is likely to accept the Jays offer. This is the _latest_ piece of news.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5141368

I'm sure everyone's in bed, so it'll be a nice/horrible thing to wake up to.
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Mylegacy - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 01:19 AM EST (#134508) #
Supercalifragilisticexpealidious or something like that.

AJ is not only a big upgrade in the pitching BUT his addition frees up Batista and maybe Lilly to be traded for bats...REMEMBER Batista would cost $4.75 Mill and Lilly earned $3.1 Mill in 05 and is eligible for arbitration this year SO that is about $8 Mill we could put towards bats.

Halliday, AJ, Towers, Chacin and Bush/McGowan I can live with.

I LOVE living on the west coast. I'm up when this type of stuff goes down!! It's only 10.18 here!
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JustinD - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 01:19 AM EST (#134509) #
IMO it's just NUTS to consider his wife's preference for the Washington DC area because of family when the difference is 15 MILLION EXTRA DOLLARS!

When you're talking this much money, I don't think that's a consideration any more.

Really, what is the difference between 40 million dollars and 55 million dollars? Both are more than I could ever spend in a lifetime.

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VBF - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 01:38 AM EST (#134510) #
Almost there. Jays working out minor details in contract.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2248966

His music is "Beautiful People" by Marilyn Manson.

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JayWay - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 01:41 AM EST (#134511) #
This makes no sense.

An hour ago, the Cards and AJ were in late night talks and then were said to be packing it in for the night in preperation of what was expected to be at least a couple more days of negotiation. Now all of a sudden the Jays have been in late night talks with AJ ironing out details for the last few hours under the belief that this would be over by dawn?

Someone, somewhere, got it horribly wrong. That, or we're being lied to.
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rtcaino - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 01:54 AM EST (#134512) #
I'm bitter-sweet about all of this. If we get him, I’d be glad that we got two of the three guys JP wanted. You know, from the perspective that if I had to read more stories about no one wanting JP's money's I’d loose it.

However, I'm very skeptical that AJ is the guy who is going to help this pitching staff jump to the next level. to sum up the argument that AJ is not a 1A guy, here is Mike Green. Mike:

"Burnett strikes out more than a batter more per game in Miami than on the road. His career G/F ratio is nothing like 2.3/1. In the Rogers Centre, he'd strike out 7 per game, walk 3.5 per game, and give up a homer every game or so. That's better than Ted Lilly but not by that much. The park and league adjustments are why Burnett's WARP1 is about equivalent to Chacin's and Towers. It is also why Carl Pavano looked so good in Florida and not so good in New York."

But that said, if AJ and Towers end up with similar contributions, AJ will seem cooler doing it.

On the bright side, the term BBatista is now less likely to not be in regular use this upcoming year.
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VBF - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 02:06 AM EST (#134513) #
This offseason is bigger than the most obvious ones. I realize players have little say in terms of trades, but its easier to trade for talent if you have alot talent. It's also easier to lure free agents if you're a perrenial playoff team which may or may not have won a world series in the previous year.

The Jays had a reputation to rebuild and their payroll is far from the highest in baseball. But somehow we signed 2 of the biggest 5-7 free agents. And as a result, the Jays have gained a bit of a glowing reputation around Major League Baseball.

And for the love of God Sportsnet, can you please change that outdated Campbell/Rosenthal interview.
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The_Game - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 02:09 AM EST (#134515) #
Couldn't all of this be Braunecker's attempt to drive up the price for the Cards before finally signing with them? He could very well just be "playing" the Jays...
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R Billie - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 02:33 AM EST (#134516) #
Well let's be honest. How likely do you think it is that Towers or Chacin can once again be well above average pitchers in 2006 with the ordinary ratios they had? Although in Towers' case I have to admit he really does have the ability to minimize walks.

But I have no idea what Chacin will do. His peripherals aren't very good and he was hit down the stretch. It could be the David Bush or someone else ends up being a better pitcher this year.

All Burnett does is give you a projectable starter which increases your margin for error in making other moves. The Jays weren't able to make their single biggest improvement move which would have been landing Giles. But having Burnett probably improves them marginally while giving them the flexibility to make a move that has a bigger impact elsewhere.
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zaptom - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 02:33 AM EST (#134517) #
Now I know this isnt representative of all the folks down south, but the stuff being said on the CBS article message board makes me laugh.

"... He wants to play for a winning franchise, not a losing one. It is career suicide to play above the border. ... I don't see the Blue Jays finishing above .500, they have no offense or defense, and wasted a big chunk of payroll on Ryan (who is he? a middle reliever, one hit wonder) so no quality FA will be added to fill the holes & bench. Toronto Org. is one of the worst in all of baseball. They don't invest in their young players, just greedy ownership fielding a below average team, and fooling their own fans..."

Truly hilarious stuff.
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Michael - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 02:35 AM EST (#134518) #
I don't get why everyone would be pissed off at a player or his agent for using their team to drive up the price of another team in acquiring him.

Imagine a world where there is no way AJ signs with Toronto. And if Toronto doesn't chase him he signs a 4/$36m deal with StL. If Toronto does chase him he ends up going with the 4/$42m StL deal. The latter case is better for Toronto as that is $6m dollars extra that StL spends and pushes up StL's budget in the competition for extra players. The only team that should be upset in that situation is StL.

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Cristian - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 02:43 AM EST (#134519) #
Michael,

The flaw in your argument is that if AJ goes to St. Louis for more money, then any pitchers subsequently targetted will use the higher AJ contract in their negotiations. The effect of making your competitor spend more will inevitably come back to harm you.
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rtcaino - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 02:47 AM EST (#134520) #
Good point RBillie.

Michael, it isn't about getting used as a negotiation tactic. It is more about not being considered seriously as a possible destination.
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timpinder - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 02:49 AM EST (#134521) #
Comparing Burnett to Chacin and Towers is silly. Chacin and Towers don't throw 98 MPH. They wouldn't have the ability to face the Yankee's lineup in game 7 of the playoffs and dominate.

It's certainly possible that what you get with Burnett is just a moderate improvement over Lilly, but that's the WORST CASE scenerio. The BEST CASE scenerio, and that's the $55 million gamble, is that he'll come into his own and dominate. He has the stuff to do it, Chacin and Towers don't, and that's why they're back of the rotation guys who will never start on opening day, unless it's with the Pirates. Burnett has the POTENTIAL to be an ace. If the Jays get him, I'll be happy.
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sduguid - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 03:02 AM EST (#134522) #
Something that this does is increase the level of excitement surrounding the Jays in the eyes of the casual fan. I have a few friends who maybe sit down to watch an inning or two every now and then with me who are suddenly talking Jays baseball.

Most fans won't know much about Ryan or Burnett other than the fact that they are high-profile and the Jays may possibly (by the morning) have snagged them both this off-season. I imagine that'll bring some fans to the park and help to build interest.
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GregJP - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 03:49 AM EST (#134523) #
Totally off topic here, but I just joined a 16 team keeper league, and we are in the process of drafting a 25 player minor league system. Same eligibility as ROY (less than 135 AB or 50 IP)
I just picked McGowan in the 7th round with the 106th overall pick. He was the first Jay picked, and the 37th pitcher selected overall.
I think it's a further testament to the fact that most baseball fans don't think much of the Jays as a franchise. The guys in this league seem quite knowledgeable, but yet there were some pitchers picked who are IMO inferior to McGowan.
A question for any of you hard core followers of the Jays minor league system. BA isn't out yet with the Jays top 10, but another site I was looking at has it Romero, McGowan, Purcey, Lind, League, Thigpen, Litsch, Jackson, Cheng, Griffin. I wonder what you guys think of this list, and if you feel Romero is actually a better long term prospect than McGowan.
Also, how long should I wait before picking some of the other guys on this list. Realistically, I figure most of them should fall within the top 400 that we are drafting.
Any input and/or insight greatly appreciated.
FWIW I have picked Marte, J.Guzman, E.Andrus (17 year old kid from Venezuela), Markakis, Tiffany, Kottaras (Canadian catcher), and McGowan so far.
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King Ryan - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 03:57 AM EST (#134524) #
zaptom, was that comment posted by a B. Koch?
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Some call me Tim - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 04:11 AM EST (#134526) #
Jeff Blair wrote an article a little while ago (3:10 a.m.) saying that it's official. Burnett is a Jay!

Jays open up vault and get Burnett.

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Jobu - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 04:17 AM EST (#134527) #
The signing has also been official confirmed at Rotoworld. 7 mill in 06, 12 mill the following 4 years.

Not that the link is really needed, Blair has a BBRRS of adamantium afterall. And he can finally get some sleep now.
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King Ryan - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 04:23 AM EST (#134528) #
You know, despite the fact that I've been complaining about this potential signing all day, I can't help but feel kind of happy about it.

Even though I think it's a bad decision, I have to smile at the fact that the BLUE JAYS landed the number one starting pitcher on the market.

So how about that. Hopefully he "puts it all together."

Time for poor Jeff Blair to get some sleep! Ken Rosenthal too, although I'm starting to think he's a cyborg.
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Oleg - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 05:17 AM EST (#134529) #
Why oh why couldn't the Jays be spending their big money in a big free agent year. Don't get me wrong, I'm tickled pink they're spending money and getting the best FA's out there. However, last year, A.J. would have been Pedro. It just sucks they're spending their money in a year that the F.A.s are second class.
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Waveburner - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 05:54 AM EST (#134530) #
Well if they had stronger resumes, they'd likely cost an extra $3-4 million each per year. No way the Jays land two truly proven elite stars with their budget. It's definitely exciting, especially in terms of the trade options this creates to add a couple bats. I'd love to see the Jays land Wilkerson. Or maybe Nick Johnson? Even if he is injury prone.
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Andrew K - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 06:14 AM EST (#134531) #
Well I've been reducing my opinion of Ricciardi for a little while, but you have to admit that he's done the required thing and attracted two very good free agents to Toronto. Good job.

I'd say that he has completed -- very successfully -- the first half of his GM's tasklist this winter. The other is to upgrade significantly two spots in the batting lineup. Obviously this will have to be by trade. This is where it gets tough, as we have to part with players we like if we want to get something valuable in return.
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timpinder - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 06:17 AM EST (#134532) #
Think big. Think Abreu. He'd have to dump Hinske's salary to do it, but if J.P. could pull that off the Jays would be legitimate contenders IMO.
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JayFan0912 - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 07:17 AM EST (#134533) #
I think burnet's signing is a gamble by the blue jays counting on burnet's health and his natural improvement. It's a good deal -- but a better idea would have been to lock up escobar two years ago.

Another benefit of this deal is the escalating cost of pitching, especially cheap young pitching, a resource the jays have plenty of. I think the jays should have no problems adding a few bats, and I hope that beyond batista, lilly, bush, hillenbrand, frasor and speier they would be dangling chacin. I think he is likely to regress next year, and selling high is a virtue of good business. I get the feeling from reading newspapers that he is untouchable.

I would try to gauge abreu's cost first, and if too high( i.e. VW), acquire wilkerson and mench. Did anyone look at the star today -- a trade discussed by baker would send hudson, league, and batista for mench and gonzalez. No wonder the paper is losing any credibility it had.
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MattAtBat - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 07:55 AM EST (#134537) #
Who gets taken off the 40-man roster to make room for AJ Burnett?

My guess is Pete Walker. Other thoughts?
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RhyZa - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 08:03 AM EST (#134538) #
I don't think one can underestimate the importance of a great 2nd starter in the playoffs, but I'd feel a lot more comfortable with AJ going up against the Sox, Yanks or any other contender's, for that matter, number 2 starters than Chacin/Towers/Lilly (potentially 4-5 games with Doc and AJ, i.e. rash comparison but in the 2001 WS, RJ and Schilling pitched approx 60% of the D-Backs innings against the Yanks).. Of course, this goes back to whether you agree that AJ is the pitcher of the pedigree that the Jays do, but still definitely something to consider.
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Jordan - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 08:13 AM EST (#134539) #
This franchise has placed a lot of faith in you, AJ. I trust you'll justify it.

In other news, Jays fans will be disappointed that Ricciardi lost out on the obvious free-agent signing to follow AJ Burnett and BJ Ryan. CJ Nitkowski signed with Pittsburgh yesterday.
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Chuck - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 08:21 AM EST (#134540) #
I think I heard a DJ mention the CJ signing.
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Thomas - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 09:32 AM EST (#134563) #
Rosenthal continues to be the best informed writer in baseball by breaking this story before Blair confirmed it.

Can we end this ridiculous bashing of him yet?
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Chuck - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 11:05 AM EST (#134619) #
Ability to gain access to information is a worthwhile skill. I'm happy to have Rosenthal report information. I'm much less thrilled, however, to be reading his dubious analysis of said information.
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Thomas - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 11:11 AM EST (#134623) #
I'm in complete agreement there. Sometimes his analysis is fine, but he was off-the-mark on the Ryan signing, among others, IMO.
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King Ryan - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 11:16 AM EST (#134628) #
As we all know, every free agent signing is a good signing, as long as it's your favorite team that does it.

Ken Rosenthal is a great baseball writer. One of only about three that I'll actually read.
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Achtungbaby - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 05:53 PM EST (#134824) #
"Those seats weren't great anyways because the second level hung overtop of them and made it hard to see fly balls or the big screen." Named for Hank

Thanks, this answered my question. I wasn't sure if the Jays were just making it fancier or if they were making actual improvements in the fans viewing experience and there seem to be doing so.

Now it's been awhile since i've been to the SkyDome/Roger's Centre, so this might not be the case anymore, but perhaps it's time the Jays gave the fans some cup holders. They should also fix the seats so that they are all facing towards home plate. One thing I remember about my experience was having a stiff neck around the 7th inning.
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R Billie - Tuesday, December 06 2005 @ 08:05 PM EST (#134850) #
I think Ismael Ramirez is still on the 40-man as well as Miguel Negron. The Jays have a lot of pitching depth though so I expect Ramirez is on the bubble.
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jabonoso - Monday, December 12 2005 @ 01:53 PM EST (#136166) #
Hi Mike,
Funny nobody follow on the world championship lead...
Some updates about Mexico (the key for Canada to pass to the finals).
The manager Paquin Estrada (with two caribbean series in his pocket) is a former catcher, very good to handle his bullpen (Scioscia style) has appointed his three starters for the first series: Loiaza, Oliver Perez and Rodrigo Lopez. To match (most likely in that order) USA, Canada and South Africa.
He requested four players that qualify for both USA and Mexico: Garciaparra, Erick Chavez, Horacio Ramirez and Eddie Guardado. Chavez and Guardado are in the US plans so were not granted. Garciaparra's father is very happy as his long life illusion was to see his son in a Mexican official team (he was groomed to be a soccer star) And Ramirez can be in line to pitch against Canada (as for the time of the year, pitchers will only handle four innings a piece)
Durazo won't be available and Vinny Castilla is unlikely (just operated a knee). Batting three and four will very likely be Garciaparra and Cantu and not that likely the DP combo as they may be playing first and third and have a couple of very good fielders/light hitting guys that we have plenty (Mendoza is mexican by the way and this days a good manager)
Closer will be Luis Ayala (Nationals) but for Canada, very likely, Ricardo Rincon.
Hope to see in your roster Larry Walker "The great".
regards
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Mike Green - Monday, December 12 2005 @ 02:08 PM EST (#136170) #
the DP combo as they may be playing first and third and have a couple of very good fielders/light hitting guys that we have plenty (Mendoza is mexican by the way and this days a good manager)

Good fielding/poor hitting middle infielders have often made fine managers. Mendoza defines the first group, and it gave me a good laugh to find out he's joined the second. Thanks very much for the update, Jabonoso.
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