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Roy Halladay vs. John Burkett tonight at the Dome. I have nothing to say, and I'm saying it.
Game Nine: Broom Me | 35 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Gitz - Thursday, April 10 2003 @ 07:02 PM EDT (#90882) #
It goes without saying you have nothing to say.
Craig B - Thursday, April 10 2003 @ 07:14 PM EDT (#90883) #
Little ball! The Sox jump out 1-0 with the help of two "productive outs" and a stolen base.
_Sean - Thursday, April 10 2003 @ 07:42 PM EDT (#90884) #
I have nothing to say about the fact that Craig has nothing to say.
_Sean - Thursday, April 10 2003 @ 07:47 PM EDT (#90885) #
2.1 4 2 2 0 2 1 4.50: Roy Halladay's pitching line and season ERA so far. Johnny Damon has homered against Doc, and Huckaby has failed to throw up two runners stealing second.

Most discouraging.
_Justin B. - Thursday, April 10 2003 @ 07:56 PM EDT (#90886) #
Is every ball that lands between the outfielders and the infielders "muscled"? That and Faulds calling line drives a "grounder through the right side" are my personal pet peeves.
_Justin B. - Thursday, April 10 2003 @ 08:10 PM EDT (#90887) #
Hillenbrand has looked really good down there at third, while Hinske's back to the double-clutching and aiming his throws. Wow, HUGE break on that grounder to Nomar right there.
_M.P. Moffatt - Thursday, April 10 2003 @ 08:44 PM EDT (#90888) #
Man, how many times do the Jays plan on coming back in this game?

Or conversely, how many times do they plan on giving the Bo-Sox the lead?

Craig B - Thursday, April 10 2003 @ 09:02 PM EDT (#90889) #
For those of us without radio or TV...

Is Josh Phelps dead? Severely hurt? Why is Myers pinch-hitting?
_Sean - Thursday, April 10 2003 @ 09:21 PM EDT (#90890) #
Great confrontation between Ramirez and Politte--a 13 pitch at bat, if I counted correctly. He was unlucky not to get out of the 8th unscathed.
robertdudek - Thursday, April 10 2003 @ 09:40 PM EDT (#90891) #

Phelps hasn't had many hits yesterday and Timlin is tough on righties. Of course, it would have been nice to have Myers PH for Huckaby.

Note to J.P.:

Huckaby made two poor throws on steal attempts.
Craig B - Thursday, April 10 2003 @ 09:49 PM EDT (#90892) #
Thank you, Mike Timlin.

Note to Grady Little : 30 pitches may be a couple too many.

Oh well, Myers just grounded out. One out to go.
_Jordan - Thursday, April 10 2003 @ 10:00 PM EDT (#90893) #
For a guy who's in the lineup for his ability to call a game and otherwise help his pitcher, Huckaby's been behind the plate for a couple of pretty good whippin's by the opposing team. This may not be such a bad thing, actually, since someone will have to go down when Miller and/or Werth arrive, and I imagine not everyone in the Jays' front office is enamoured of the three-catcher situation.

Every game has its turning point (TSN even used to make it a post-game feature, for heaven's sakes), and to my mind, this game turned when Woodward popped out with a runner on third and one out. Myers' strikeout was also pretty big, though I won't argue Tosca's decision to hit for Phelps: Timlin's always been death on righties. A sweep would've been fantastic, but I'll happily take 2/3 from these very dangerous Red Sox.
_S.K. - Thursday, April 10 2003 @ 10:38 PM EDT (#90894) #
I wish more people would comment directly on the game - I come to Batter's Box before I check the score on ESPN, and all i know about the game is that Halladay had a rough first 2 innings, Huckaby sucks, and that they lost =P
_M.P. Moffatt - Thursday, April 10 2003 @ 10:44 PM EDT (#90895) #
Sorry, I would have posted more, but...

1. I imagine everyone is pretty tired of my inane comments by now.
2. I was the "Guide of the Day" at today, so I've been busy reading hate-mail.
3. I have a girlfriend to ignore.

robertdudek - Thursday, April 10 2003 @ 11:24 PM EDT (#90896) #
The Jays probably played their worst defensive game of the season. Catalanotto misplayed a shallow fly ball into a turf double. Woodward made an error on a Damon grounder. Hudson, in turning a DP, dropped the ball and all hands were safe. Hinske had trouble with a routine throw to first, but was rescued by Delgado. Huckaby made two poor throws to 2nd on steal attempts, costing the Jays a couple of caught stealings.

Doc had great stuff, as the 10K and 1W will attest. He left a curveball on the outer half of the plate; it looked like Damon was sitting on a curve and he pulled it into the rightfield bleachers. After the homerun, Doc mowed down the heart of the lineup on strikeouts.

Burkett never threw a pitch over the heart of the plate. He was content to work around the edges and concede walks. For the most part it worked: if not for Garciaparra's error on a sure double play, Burkett would have left the game with a lead.
_Spicol - Thursday, April 10 2003 @ 11:30 PM EDT (#90897) #
I was at the game tonight. Craig was right, there isn't much to say.

Frank looked really bad, and I mean fat kid in Grade 5 playing soccer baseball bad, on the base hit that bounced over his head for a double in the 2nd. I love ya Frank, but a little more practice on SkyDome turf might be in order.

Delgado went the other way for a base hit again. As a result, the shift teams are putting on him this year is a fraction of the shift he saw last year. This is going to open up the right side even more and I foresee another great year from Carlos.

Aquilino Lopez is this skinny little thing who just goes out there like the big leagues are nothing. He whips the ball to the plate with something extra on it. It's called enthusiasm.

My last observation: SkyDome is seemingly in love with 50-Cent's new song. Shannon Stewart looks a lot like 50-Cent. Coincidence? I don't think so. Has anyone seen them in the same room together?!?

_Jurgen Maas - Thursday, April 10 2003 @ 11:47 PM EDT (#90898) #
I'm officially concerned about Cat in RF. His arm is better than I expected, but he looks seriously frazzled out there. I love his bat, but I don't think he should be a season-long option in the field. I'd argue that he cost them the game out there--well, Hudson's defense didn't help much either.

I know it's early, and we can't expect Lidle and Sturtze to keep pitching like Halladay clones (can we?), but the team seems much more competitive much sooner than I had hoped. Something's going to have to be done. Are they better off playing Stew in RF (who also seems to be throwing well), and move Cat over to LF? Maybe Cat can come back to the IF and kill two birds with one stone.

Halladay pitched a great game, especially after the Damon jack. That would have crushed the Halladay of '00, but instead made this incarnation even stronger. I think we're getting closer to the point where we can call Roy the best non-Pedro pitcher in the AL. Is he already the equal of the Oakland three?

And yes, in case you were wondering, that really was Geddy Lee in attendence.
_Jurgen - Friday, April 11 2003 @ 12:01 AM EDT (#90899) #

What? Phelps was pulled because he wasn't hitting well? That's it? He would have been the tying run in the bottom of the ninth!

It's almost as bad as in Texas today, where the A's pinch hit for Durazo with the bases loaded after Texas brought in a left-handed pitcher. I know that historically Durazo has done poorly against lefties, and Gant still hits them well, but didn't the A's say that they were playing Durazo against all but the toughest southpaws? How's he supposed to improve, or at least give the club a realistic assessment of his abilities against them, when they sit him in situations like that? It's completely baffling, and it's not exactly a ringing endorsement for their new 1B/DH.

Did this come from Macha or Beane, and if the former, is the latter starting to think that maybe he gave up on Howe too soon?
_Justin B. - Friday, April 11 2003 @ 12:16 AM EDT (#90900) #
Cerutti's analysis also alerted viewers to the fact that Myers has another advantage over Phelps: he caught Timlin in 1991/92, so he has a good idea of what he's throwing. Apparently.
robertdudek - Friday, April 11 2003 @ 12:32 AM EDT (#90901) #
I'm not saying it's hands down to pinch hit for Phelps, just that it's a defensible option. Your point certainly has merit - you want Phelps to learn to handle all comers.

But you also want to win the game. It was a key moment in the game and lefties hit Timlin better than righties. In a sense, the move allowed Toronto to gain a platoon edge in Myers' final AB.

At the same time, it meant Tom Wilson batting for Ken Huckaby instead of Myers for Huckaby and Phelps for himself. It's a tough call, and I would have probably stayed with Phelps, mostly because he's shown a lot of patience at the plate this year so far despite being occasionally over-matched.
_Jurgen Maas - Friday, April 11 2003 @ 12:54 AM EDT (#90902) #
I don't really think it's all that defensible, and it's the kind of tinkering move that makes a manager feel like he's doing something. It's the opposite disease as Gastonism... LaRussitis?
_Richard - Friday, April 11 2003 @ 01:01 AM EDT (#90903) #
Damn....defensive whiz Huckaby should have caught that foul tip!The bats keep hummin but I must admit I'm starting to be a little concerned with "Miller time" as in Trevor Miller.
Gitz - Friday, April 11 2003 @ 01:12 AM EDT (#90904) #
One can make a case for Halladay being as good as Mulder and Hudson, but not Zito. This year I'm bullish on Mulder having a breakout year -- i.e. his peripherals catching up to his wins -- but long-term Zito is going to pile up some numbers that Halladay will be hard-pressed to match. I think Halladay is more Matt Morris -- he's around the plate so much he'll always give up nearly a hit per inning -- than Zito. Of course, being Matt Morris ain't so bad ...
_jason - Friday, April 11 2003 @ 03:05 AM EDT (#90905) #
The most comparable pitcher to Roy Halliday by the numbers and such is actually Roy Oswalt. (They're '02 seasons are shockingly similar.) They're also roughly the same age and have comparable stuff. Roy H. is just taller. Thats the biggest difference.
Coach - Friday, April 11 2003 @ 08:30 AM EDT (#90906) #
it meant Tom Wilson batting for Ken Huckaby instead of Myers for Huckaby and Phelps for himself

I was stunned. If Phelps isn't allowed to face Mike Timlin, what's next? Pinch-hitting for him against all mediocre RH setup men? Gwyn and I weren't hoping that Josh was hurt, but we felt at the time that would have been the only acceptable explanation for the move. Since that doesn't seem to be the case, I can only assume Tosca had a vision. Catching a guy last year might be a slight advantage to a hitter, but more than 10 years ago is utterly meaningless.

But that's not why they lost. Robert's summary of the defence was 100% accurate, if a bit too kind. Hudson has now botched the pivot or the throw on at least four routine DP -- this week! And Woodward picked up an E6 for the third straight game. Both were on the simplest of plays. Huckaby, now 0-3 behind the plate, and every bit as good a hitter as his .100 average suggests, has a quick release, but all he can throw to 2B is a changeup. He also should have been charged with a passed ball on Varitek's whiff, but first base was occupied; it turned out OK when he hustled to retrieve the ball and threw out Hillenbrand trying to score. Maybe it's another "possum" play they practice every day in spring training, but it reminded me of Ken's 13 passed balls in 2002. That's a wasted roster spot, and if his only purpose is to make Doc better, it isn't working.

Halladay has seemed to be pitching without passion this year; I understand the principle of controlling your emotions on the mound, but he may have taken it a shade too far. Certainly, after the fat pitch to Damon, Doc became visibly more intense, and he was unhittable (like his best games last year) until his defence betrayed him -- again -- three innings later.

Pitch selection is an inexact science, but I first-guessed this one; I have witnesses. Politte had just pulled the string on a pitch to Nixon that really fooled him. So the hitter is now expecting he'll go back to his bread-and-butter fastball on the full count, like he did eight times in a row to Manny Ramirez. Anything else, Trot strikes out. Fastball -- which Huck (or someone in the dugout) called -- and he hits a 2-run laser.

It's silly to be disappointed with a 5-4 start, and I'm not. But it could have been even better; I hope Butter cracks the whip on his middle infielders until they start to pay attention to the easy plays, and I'll be glad to see the end of the Huckaby era. I'm going to let the Myers-for-Phelps thing go now, but if that happens again, I'll have plenty to say.

I really enjoyed meeting Gwyn, Jason and Jurgen, all great companions at a game. If you live in the GTA, or can arrange to be in town for May 2, that's the likely date (awaiting confirmation) for the first Batter's Box night at the Dome. We'll have the details shortly.
Craig B - Friday, April 11 2003 @ 08:36 AM EDT (#90907) #
In a sense, the move allowed Toronto to gain a platoon edge in Myers' final AB.

Which was weird, because if I was running a bullpen-by-committee, I'd have thrown the lefty in against Myers and Hinske. The Sox only have one lefty (ugly bullpen design?). Timlin came out OK, but normally when a guy has just given up three runs to narrow an 8-4 lead into 8-7, he doesn't stay in to pitch to two guys who have the platoon advantage against him.
_Justin B. - Friday, April 11 2003 @ 09:39 AM EDT (#90908) #
Lest I sound like a fool, I was being sardonic about Cerutti's analysis of Myers' advantage of catching Timlin ~12 years ago. To me, this year is a rebuilding year, even if they were in "2nd place" during the time when he pinch-hit for Phelps, and decisions should be made with a long-term focus. If they are planning on contending 2004/05/06 and beyond, then the younger guys should be put in situations now where they will be required to excel later. Sure it would be nice to win a couple more games this year; if it's at the expense of a couple wins next year though, that's not a tradeoff I like.
_Spicol - Friday, April 11 2003 @ 10:24 AM EDT (#90909) #
To me, this year is a rebuilding year

I'm sensing that the 5-game win streak has Tosca thinking otherwise, even if only temporarily. His moves (sitting Hinske, PH for Phelps, so much playing time for Tom Wilson, allowing Huckaby and Halladay to continue to build a relationship that can't last, strategic use of Doug Creek) are "let's pull this one out, boys" kind of moves.
_the shadow - Friday, April 11 2003 @ 10:48 AM EDT (#90910) #
re:Halliday, I agree with coach, after Damon home run in the 3, Halliday became an altogether different pitcher, his location became noticeably lower and velocity improved (as did his strike outs) RF remains a black hole and the hippity hop throws of Hinske become more weird game by game.
Coach - Friday, April 11 2003 @ 10:55 AM EDT (#90911) #
Spicol, "rebuilding year" means nothing to a manager or a player; that's a GM's concept. Once you put the jersey on, you are trying to win the current game. Even in high school, where I play both roles, I know I need to get my Grade 9's and 10's some experience in order to sustain the program, but it never fails -- my bench gets awfully short in close games. As I holler "free Aquilino" in the SkyDome, I'm fully aware of the double standard; several talented 15-year olds in my own dugout this season will undoubtedly be thinking "free ME!"
_Spicol - Friday, April 11 2003 @ 11:05 AM EDT (#90912) #
Spicol, "rebuilding year" means nothing to a manager or a player; that's a GM's concept.

Well, it should to a manager, since Tosca is JP's soldier. The plan Tosca executes should compliment the bigger, organizational plan.
robertdudek - Friday, April 11 2003 @ 01:36 PM EDT (#90913) #
I don't see any evidence that pinch-hitting for Phelps once in awhile is going to curtail his future development. Thus, the move last night has zero impact on 2004 as far as I'm concerned.

And I think the Jays can contend this year. The experience gained from being in a pennant race (if in fact they do participate in one this year) can do nothing but help prepare them for future pennant races. I say the manager should use the tools on hand to try and win every game he can as long as he doesn't risk the future health of his key players.
_Jurgen Maas - Friday, April 11 2003 @ 03:11 PM EDT (#90914) #
Even if it isn't curtailing his development, pinch-hitting for Phelps was the wrong move. (It was the wrong move in Oakland, too, for the same reason--Durazo's bat was missed in the ninth against Urbina.)

I don't know if it's true or not, but they always say a pitcher should never get beaten by anything other than his best pitch. I can't help but think that the same thing applies here. Phelps is still getting on base at a .350 clip, and he's slugging about .450. Nobody expects Myers to do that over a season, yet for Phelps it's "slumping". If that's the case I'll take the guy who's slumping.

A clear case of LaRussitis.
_Jim - Friday, April 11 2003 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#90915) #
My thoughts on Myers for Phelps:

Out of last night's starting lineup, Huckaby is the only one crying out for a pinch-hitter, maybe Catalanotto against a lefty. I was hoping Myers would come on for Huckaby the previous inning, following the Woodward double, since Halladay was only going to go one more inning in which he might need his personal catcher.

Myers is your only pinch hitting option vs. righties, so using him in place of a competent hitter doesn't make much sense. If the Jays had another decent lefty bat on the bench, then it's defensible. As it was, Wilson, no monster against right-handers, was pressed into service for Huckaby.

Bat Myers for Huck in the 6th, and you get two Myers ABs and two for Phelps AND you still have wilson in reserve.
robertdudek - Saturday, April 12 2003 @ 10:14 AM EDT (#90916) #
"Bat Myers for Huck in the 6th, and you get two Myers ABs and two for Phelps AND you still have wilson in reserve."

Well of course this makes sense. But starting Myers or Wilson in the first place at catcher makes even more sense.
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