The Lidle decision is a bit surprising. Common wisdom is that Lidle did not want to come back. If so the risk in offering arbitration would be low, and the Jays would get some draft picks. The Jays must feel that Lidle might come back for the money, so they don't want to take the risk. So money on a one year contract would be more appealing to Lidle than a cheaper multi-year deal elsewhere.

Yeah I see your line of thinking Gerry - but if the Jays did offer arbitration to Lidle who would take him and give up a draft pick? - Lidle might have to choose Toronto by default - which would be unfortunate for all parties

I don't think that Lidle wants to come back to Toronto but if he's offered arbitration I guess thatmight run the risk of him coming back by default. On the other hand it could be a good thing for both parties at least from the short term if Lidle were to come back. It would probably send a message to him to pitch better and try to get his market value up. That way the Jays can afford to give him up during the trade deadline and get some prospects or an affordable arm for the bullpen.

As for guys the Jays may nab, I would love to see Millwood in a Jays uniform as I think he can come back to have a decent year north of the border. He's also in that timeframe where a pitcher either blossoms into something really good or starts to flatten out in performance. (at least from my perspective)

Lidle might also find fewer interested teams offering less cash than he likely expects because of such a disappointing second half. That could make a 20% paycut from last season look good enough to take. If the Jays were left with him after arbitration, they would be worse off than giving him his walking papers, even if it means no compensatory draft pick. Good riddance to Mr. Lidle and his family, and I'm sure there'll a city somewhere south of here waiting with open arms to accept them.

A: "because of such dissapointing second half" Careful, you just implied he had a decent first half.

That could make a 20% paycut from last season look good enough to take

Could? I think Lidle would be thrilled to take a 50% pay cut at this point, let alone a 20% cut.

Having said that, I'd think he's a good pickup for any team that pays him $2 million or less. His DIPS ERA was much better than his actual ERA and he had a stretch where he pitched hurt which couldn't have helped.

One of the Arizona papers speculated earlier this week that the Box's favorite FA pitcher, Miguel Batista, would be offered arbitration by the Snakes given the interest that so many other teams have shown in him.

Which would mean most of the interested teams would cease to be interested.

Sorry for changing the subject, but did anyone read Bill Simmons' Page 2 column on ESPN, regarding Schilling joining a Sox fans web board late at night last week to discuss coming to Boston? It's really quite amazing:

"You probably heard the story by now: On Thanksgiving night, Schilling submitted a lengthy post on the Red Sox message board on MLB.com, then chatted with Sox fans until the wee hours on another Sox message board called "The Sons of Sam Horn" (SOSH).

...

An admitted internet junkie hoping to get a handle on Sox fans, Schilling couldn't have picked a better place. He stumbled into a SOSH chat room at 2:30 in the morning and found about 20 fans in there, which is my favorite part of the story -- only the guys from SOSH would be chatting about the Sox at 2:30 A.M. on Thanksgiving night. After he introduced himself, they verified his identity with a barrage of questions, then spent the rest of their time pleading for him to come to Boston. He ended up staying in the chat room past 4 o'clock, talking about anything and everything. I'm not making this up.

The next day was even stranger: After Schilling landed a SOSH account and word spread with the members, Friday afternoon -- the deadline for Schilling to accept his Boston trade -- turned into a pitch session from the SOSH members to Schilling."

Apparently Schilling remarked afterwards that the passion of the fans on the board helped convince him to make the move. I checked out the board, and there is no doubt from his comments there that it really was Schilling and not someone impersonating him.

If only he had stumbled onto the Box... we could've told him which team would appreciate him more.

Interesting that you should mention it, Rich. Jordan, Kent, and I have been talking about that exact event in e-mail.

Apparently, a member of SOSH got into some very extreme trouble as a result of the Schilling chat, and there were some other repercussions.

Sons of Sam Horn is a terrific site, always an enjoyable read, and it is a shining example of a fan community.

Craig, what is the story about a member getting into trouble? Why, and by whom?

http://www.thewolfshack.com
I believe that the member worked for a newspaper in Hartford, and he revealed his sources for some of their stories. Hopefully someone can back me up on this.

I had heard on the radio last night that a couple of Jays pitchers, including Lidle, wouldn't be offered arbitration. At the time I was worried that the other one to be cut loose was Politte, which I would have more or less disagreed with, but I had forgotten about Sturtze. I'm okay with Sturtze leaving.

One thing about Lidle - he did have a very good month of May. I was at his game against the Angels and he looked just fine to me (although Hinske bailed him out with a big play in the middle innings).

At the time I was worried that the other one to be cut loose was Politte

This weekend we'll only know whether free agents have been offered arbitration.

It won't be for another couple weeks before we get the non-tendered players on the market.

what is the story about a member getting into trouble?

Rich, as Paul D. says, Sam Ohri is a SoSH member who works for the Hartford Courant. Columnist Jeff Jacobs, apparently no fan of "the Internet crowd," subsequently ripped his colleague and the site.

I doubt this would happen on Batter's Box. First of all, don't expect star players, team officials and open-minded "real" media types to post here regularly unless we make it a members-only site. Secondly, those of us (authors and readers) who have been trusted from time to time with "off the record" information aren't likely to blurt it out on any public board. If I was fortunate enough to get a job writing about baseball, and could continue to participate here, all my anonymous sources would remain confidential in both places. Ohri, perhaps a bit star-struck, let his fandom supercede his responsibility to his employer. I have no idea whether his mistake got him in any more "trouble" or was simply embarrassing, but I'm sure he regrets it.

It won't be for another couple weeks before we get the non-tendered players on the market.

Pistol is right, and I apologize for jumping the gun -- that deadline is December 20. All that happens this weekend is a large group of the 180 or so free agents still out there will no longer require draft pick compensation. For a bargain-hunting organization like the Jays, there will be a few starters and relievers they can pursue more aggressively, while still keeping an eye on dozens of other players who could be available in two more weeks.

From a recent Toronto Sun article by Shi Davidi of Canadian Press:

"We have to see who's out there," said Ricciardi. "There's a few guys out there but can we get them? Do they require compensation? Who's going to be non-tendered? It's kind of like working your way through a minefield."

Other than citing the need to be creative, J.P. didn't give any hints about how he expects to spend the remaining $8 million in his 2004 budget. If someone like Tim Worrell becomes compensation-free tomorrow and signs with the Jays in the meantime, that might affect their Dec. 20 decision about offering Cliff Politte a contract.

There was an interesting note on the Primer discussion of the story. The poster was an ex-player who noted that players in the minors, and ones just making it, have grown up with computers and they are on them all the time, checking email and the web. They do check to see what is written about them. Here Reed Johnson and James Pidutti at least have posted. Many others have probably visited and not left a message.

Gerry,

Do you have the URL for that? Thanks.

Gerry, he posts on his interview thread.

http://www.baseballprimer.com/clutch/archives/00009806.shtml#comments_53
Do you have the URL for that? Thanks

Click on homepage and go to post #43, past all the Olsen twins/Full House discussion.

Apparently the Giants won't be offering arbitration to Ponson. What do you think his value will be on the open market? Could he possibly fit into JP's budget for the #2 starter slot?

Ponson would be a decent alternative as a #2 but the question will be what he costs. If he's not offered arbitration that will attract the attention of many of the richer clubs as well and I think $5 million would be his salary floor rather than ceiling.

It looks like John Thomson and Scott Sullivan are going to be offered arbitration. Two other names who might have drawn interest from the Jays after midnight tonight.

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't be comfortable giving Ponson any more than 2 years at 7-8 million. I obviously wouldn't land the guy, but I wouldn't want to pay him any more than that. He just doesn't strike me as a guy who can keep up "no. 2" performance (or no. 3 for that matter) over a full season.

To me the guy I would be looking at if he gets non-tendered would be Freddy Garcia.There would be a #2 starter who is still young in his career and possibly might come a little less expensive because of concerns of overuse and his poor year last year.

Kristian, I agree completely. If Garcia is non-tendered, I like him.

I doubt Garcia will be very cheap, though. A guy at his age isn't going to settle for much of a pay cut. Somebody will pay him.

Though I would like to see him on the cheap as a Fighting Jay :-D

Thanks for the link Gerry.

Garcia will be way too expensive for the Jays, I'm afraid. Too bad.

Great news!

Well..perhaps not...

My contact at the head office (who may or may not turn out to be much of one) tells me that the Jays are going to sign Antonio Alfonseca. This could be a good pickup if he loses 50-150 lbs.

godspeed

http://www.scottlucas.com
No compensation for Vlad.

I'll take AA for less than a million and one year. I won't be paticularily happy, but like most guys it won't hurt if he's cheap.

Absolutely Gerry is write when he says players often check to see what is written about them. Of course we are interested in what other people have to say. Especially the highly respected opinions of the people who post on batters box. I think I speak for mostly everyone when I say players are curious about how they are doing through other peoples eyes. I stumbled across the site and I would be lieing if I said I don't check it often. It is very interesting and I enjoy reading through it. Maybe I have to much time on my hands but I like this site even though some people find it funny to write comments down to make me look stupid and sign my name to it. Whatever, but it's happened more than once.

James, you know how it can be on a public board. I've said many times that I don't like posters who "impersonate" real people. Maybe once in a while, when it's obviously a joke, it's actually funny and the impersonation is a necessary part of the laugh (like when several of us were making ridiculous trade offers for A-Rod in a fantasy league thread, and someone claiming to be "Theo Epstein" offered Manny Ramirez, straight up.)

As baseball fans, we admire anyone with the talent to play pro ball. Yours would be a fascinating Canadian success story if you ever make it to the Show, and most of us will be following your progress with interest. I apologize if any of our readers who may not understand that you are a real person has made jokes at your expense. You're very welcome to post here any time, and so are your friends. When you're down in Florida next spring, I hope you spread the word about Batter's Box to your teammates and invite them to post as well.

Yeah thanks for the kind words there coach. No need to apoligze for someone else's mishaps. I don't mind it as long as it doesn't happen to often. I guess some people think it's funny. And it was.

Yeah I really enjoy the site a lot. Very useful information on here. I'll tell people all about it although it seems as if you guys have a ton of fans already by all the hits you receive. You must average a few thousand a day.

Are you from Canada also?

Yeah it would make a good success story considering there are only about a dozen Canadians on big league rosters. Can't make any promises there as I am only in Rookie Ball at the moment.

James,

I'm curious as to whether the organization has discussions with its players about internet use. I believe that you have the discretion to keep team-only information away from fans but once more players begin to post to sites like this, the possibility increases that sensitive information may be leaked. We all saw what happened with Schilling and the SoSH blog. Schilling is in a position where he would not get into trouble but not all players are in his shoes. Indiscretion on a website could hamper a career--especially for a minor league player, could it not?

James, I started this site, but it quickly evolved into a partnership. Five of the Box authors, including me, live in Toronto. We're also from Hamilton, Ottawa, New York, Dallas and Seattle. Our readers are everywhere, but there's a Canadian majority.

I'm much more interested in Justin Morneau, Jeff Francis, Adam Loewen and other Canadian prospects than I would be if the same players were born south of the border. If I actually know a kid, like Jon Lockwood, now in the Mariners organization, or Kris Dabrowiecki, a likely 2004 draftee I coached in high school last year, of course I'm rooting for them, and it's hard to be completely objective. "Meeting" a player via my own Website also makes me take more of an interest in their development.

It would be foolish to try to coach you, sight unseen, from a thousand miles away, but I'll offer this advice anyway before you go to spring training: when you take that deep breath before starting your windup, always clear your head. It's too late for thinking at that point; the only thing on your mind should be the target. Trust your stuff, throw strikes, and enjoy every minute. By playing pro ball, you are doing something that more than 99% of us can only dream about, so you're already a huge success.

Well Christian to answer your question the organization doesn't really chat very often about using or not using a computer baseball site. They just tell us to act responsible and to not embarass anyone and to use good judgement in cases like that. I don't see any problem with players posting comments as long as they are not criticial ones. I'm careful in choosing my words. I mean certainly there are things that players would know that should most definitely not be posted for everyone's viewing pleasure. That would be foolish. I suppose if players were jealous they could say the wrong thing about someone else and it could lead to a potential problem. But I don't think it could get that serious. I subscribe to the sticks and stones may break my bones theory. I suppose some people would be upset if certain things got leaked out, I can't speak for everybody but most people wouldn't mind to much depending on the situation. I mean fans boo and criticize players all the time. So athletes have to be used to critisicm. But yes teammates should be careful of what they say. I am not familiar at all with the Curt Schilling incident. You will have to inform me about it.

And to coach thanks for your kind words and advice. Well good work in starting the site. It obviously has gotten a ton of interest and has sparkled many visitors. It's nice to see a majority of Canadian readers are following a Canadian team. Obviously you should be much more interested in those players that is expected of you. It is neat when you see someone you know go on to better things rather than a complete stranger.

I'm not a thousand miles away. Aren't you from Toronto? I'm 240 miles away. Yeah, I'm aware of clearing your head and visualizing the target. And all that other stuff. But a reminder is always helpful. Thanks. Yeah I do enjoy every minute. It is very rare to be affiliated with a mlb team as there are only about 2 dozen canadian pitchers with that chance in 2003. so about 25-30 out of about 31 million is quite a feat eh. Hit me back.