Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine
Curt Schilling has thrown his last pitch.  The 42 year-old announced his retirement on his 38pitches.com blog today after 20 seasons in the bigs.

Curtis Montague Schilling finishes with a record of 216-146, a 3.46 ERA and struck out 3,116 batters.  He began his career with Baltimore back in 1988 and also made stops in Houston, Philadelphia, and Arizona.  He'll forever be known for having the most famous blood-stained sock in sports history after pitching with a wonky ankle and having a tendon holding up with spit and chewing gum as he helped lead Boston to the 2004 World Series title.  He also won World Series rings with Arizona in 2001 and with Boston again in 2007.  His final start turned out to be Game 2 of the World Series against Colorado in which he earned the win to help the Red Sox sweep the Rockies in four straight.  His post season record was an impressive 11-2 with a 2.23 ERA.

Thankfully for all Blue Jays fans, one of those playoff losses came against Toronto when he was with Philadelphia in 1993.  He took the loss in Game 1 in the World Series at the Dome but was simply masterful in Game 5 at Veterans Stadium when he went the distance throwing a gazillion pitches to send the series back to Toronto.  We all know what happened next but here's a nice reminder nonetheless.  

What do you think, Bauxites?  Is Schilling a Hall of Famer?  Sure, he's a long way from 300 victories but I'd say yes.

Schilling Calls It A Career | 23 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mick Doherty - Monday, March 23 2009 @ 02:16 PM EDT (#197373) #

Is Schilling a Hall of Famer? 

No.

Unless we're defining Hall of Fame as being for those who are famous partly for ability and partly for stunts and partly for outspokenness.  Was Schilling a "clutch" pitcher? Yes, whatever that means.

Yes, yes, I know -- per BaseballReference.com, both Schilling's HOF "Standards" AND "Monitor" are higher than Morris' ... but both are above "Likely HOFer" in the Monitor and both are below "Average HOFer" in the Standards. And Morris had better counting stats, again, for whatever that's worth.

Schilling was a great pitcher who made it to the World Series stage with three different teams, winning two. Morris was a great pitcher who made it to the World Series stage with three different teams, winning all three (granted, the Jay title was no thanks to him).

That is all.

John Northey - Monday, March 23 2009 @ 02:37 PM EDT (#197375) #
Schilling is a guy I see as on the bubble for the HOF.  His 127 ERA+ is HOF quality, but the 216 wins (and longevity implied by it) isn't.  4 times getting Cy Young votes (surprised he didn't get any until 1997), 6 All-Star games.  5 times with a 150+ ERA+ (once as a reliever, another time in just 24 starts non-strike year, never reached 160).  Amazing playoff performer, which is a major plus.

For comparison, Halladay has 3 years of 150+ (plus a 200+ in 2 starts) with a 184 peak.  4 years getting Cy Young votes, 5 All-Star games, 131 ERA+ lifetime (including that horrid 48 in 2000).  'Just' 131 wins though as he has a lot of career to go (hopefully).

In a weak voting year Schilling would be in.  However, he'll be on the same ballot as Piazza, Clemens, Bonds, Sosa, and Biggio.  David Wells is even on that one and I think Jack Morris will still be kicking then as (sadly) could be Tim Raines.  That is one heck of a crowded ballot, even without mixing in other potential hold overs (such as McGwire).  5 guys on that ballot who should be first ballot locks (600 HR each for Sosa & Bonds, 3000 hits for Biggio, 350 wins for Clemens, and Piazza is viewed as the best hitting catcher ever by almost everyone).  FYI: I mention Wells as he does have 239 wins to go with his 108 ERA+, 3 all star games, ALCS MVP, 2 third place Cy Young finishes, 10-5 playoff record (3.17 ERA) and perfect game.  Phew, if Wells didn't have so much baggage he'd be getting tons of votes.

Hmm.  The 2013 ballot should be nicknamed the baggage ballot I suspect, but the name it'll be known by is the steroid ballot I'm sure.

Mike Green - Monday, March 23 2009 @ 03:21 PM EDT (#197381) #
Schilling, will and should, go to the Hall of Fame.  He's in that happy knot with Mussina and John Smoltz, and all three easily merit induction.  They are well clear of the Tommy John/Bret Saberhagen/David Cone/Dave Stieb marginal HoFers on merit and miles ahead of Jack Morris.  It is not at all clear that the Hall will induct all there, but Schilling's bloody sock will be there in Cooperstown. Eww.

Today was the day that Toronto got professional baseball.  And if you have followed my BBRef beta link, check out the new features there. 



James W - Monday, March 23 2009 @ 04:18 PM EDT (#197386) #

I really do not like him as a person at all, and say "Good riddance."  I also wanted to refute the idea of Schilling as a HOFer, but I looked up his career stats and it'd be difficult to argue.  Here's hoping he continues to keep any of his blow-hard opinions he has on his blog.

christaylor - Monday, March 23 2009 @ 04:38 PM EDT (#197387) #
I want to test the blood on his sock (that is already in the Hall, I believe) if it matches (genetically) and *has* banned substances in it, then Mr. Blogger-man is in my all for certain.

However, there's no doubt that he's going into Cooperstown; I'd be disappointed if he didn't, I'm not fan but his stats do not lie, espeically in the era(s) that he pitched.
katman - Monday, March 23 2009 @ 07:29 PM EDT (#197393) #
He's in. Maybe not first ballot, but he won't be veteran's committee, either.

The stats won't put him over the top. Being the guy who broke the most famous curse in baseball, with one of the greatest comebacks (very possible THE greatest) in baseball history, will. He led that Boston team. In performance, in deed, in spirit.He also led an expansion team to the fastest World Series title in the modern era.

That is what will put him over the top. You might choose to make all kinds of arguments about why he wasn't "the guy" for those teams, but they won't persuade many people who were watching. You might say the playoff stuff is all a crapshoot. But it does affect the way people vote, and I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

The stats just have to be good enough to get him to the bubble. And they are.

Hats off to a great, Hall of Fame worthy competitor. Glad we don't have to face him any more.

I bet he gives a good acceptance speech, too.
jmoney - Monday, March 23 2009 @ 11:07 PM EDT (#197399) #
Hey he's much better then Rube Marquard. I could see him getting in.
christaylor - Monday, March 23 2009 @ 11:21 PM EDT (#197400) #
Rube, now that's a name one does not hear everyday so I popped out of the thesis windows and looked up. I neutralized each player and found out that our now retired Sock gave up 334 HR and Rube gave up 116 HR.

So, to sum up, I'd rather have Rube in the hall than Curt.
brent - Monday, March 23 2009 @ 11:35 PM EDT (#197401) #
Mike, you left out Kevin Brown. If you elect Schilling, you have to put in Brown, Mussina and Smoltz. I would prefer to keep all four of those on the outside. I know starting pitchers are under represented, but I would prefer if the HoF would slow up the inductions and keep players like Rice out. It doesn't have to be a miniscule HoF, but I would prefer if the bar was set higher.
James W - Tuesday, March 24 2009 @ 07:34 AM EDT (#197406) #
Kevin Brown and Mike Mussina aren't on the same level as Smoltz and Schilling, and Smoltz gets in before Schilling does, at least by my imaginary vote.
Magpie - Tuesday, March 24 2009 @ 02:41 PM EDT (#197428) #

Is he a Hall of Famer?

Don't be silly. It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of the Scientifically Evaluated. He's a Hall of Famer the same way Don Drysdale and Catfish Hunter are Hall of Famers - among the best pitchers of their time, but also among the most celebrated and discussed players of their time. And Schilling, of course, was clearly a better pitcher then either - and while Hunter in particular had a well deserved reputation as post-season performer, Schilling actually was one of the greatest post-season pitchers in the history of the game. That discussion begins with Mathewson, Gibson, and Schilling. Then you can add other contenders.

His career arc is completely different from Drysdale and Hunter, both of whom came to the major leagues as teenagers, worked very, very hard and racked up most of their accomplishments in their 20s, and were both through at an early age. (Drysdale won 19 games after age 30, Hunter only won another 23.) Schilling's a little more like Dazzy Vance, who won 197 games and led the NL in strikeouts seven years in a row after turning 30, having won exactly 0 games prior to that.

Drysdale and Hunter each won a Cy Young - Schilling didn't, but that's a fluke of history. Schilling could have easily won two or three of the awards if his timing had been a little better. Normally going 22-6 with 293 Ks does get you a Cy Young, and if that doesn't work you'd think that maybe winning even more games (23-7) and striking out even more guys (316) the following year would do the trick. But Schilling really wasn't quite as good as Randy Johnson those years, just as Juan Marichal (25-8, 2.41, 248 Ks) wasn't quite as good as Sandy Koufax in 1963. Or in 1966 (Marichal was 25-6, 2.23).

But just because you're not quite as good as Randy Johnson or Sandy Koufax at their absolute peaks doesn't mean you're not pretty damn great yourself.

And a trivia note. With 3,116 strikeouts and a mere 711 walks, Curt Schilling has the greatest strikeout to walk ratio (4.38 to 1) of all time. I didn't know that. (Well, technically he's behind Tommy Bond, who was active when pitchers threw underhand from 50 feet and it took nine balls to issue a walk.)

Anyway, I'm really going to miss the old blowhard.

Which is what he was (and is!), and he irritated me almost as often as he irritated every one else out there. But I think there's always room for an athlete who doesn't always recite the cliches the learned at Crash Davis' knee. There's never any shortage of those guys.

He was the Reggie Jackson of his time - he wasn't really the best player of his time, except possibly in his own mind. He was up there among them, though. They were players who carried their own spotlights around with them, men who assumed they were the centre of attention, took it as their due, and liked it that way. They both irritated an awful lot of people, and you can nit-pick their accomplishments if you want - hey, Reggie Jackson did have a lifetime BAVG of .262 and struck out more than 2500 times. But what we'll remember about both of them though is what they did in the biggest moments of all, when the spotlight was brightest. When they didn't merely rise to the occasion, they transcended it. Schilling in the 2004 LCS and Jackson in the 1977 series are two of the greatest baseball memories I carry.

Mike Green - Tuesday, March 24 2009 @ 02:57 PM EDT (#197430) #
Actually, Schilling was about as good as Marichal during the regular season. 

I personally am not crazy about the Drysdale and Hunter selections (or for that matter, the selection of Jim Rice).  I realize similarly that Britney Spears is a shoo-in for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and that Steve Earle will be on the outside. Fame/fear/implants all leave me cold.

SheldonL - Tuesday, March 24 2009 @ 04:16 PM EDT (#197437) #
Yeah, for me, there's no doubt that Schilling's a hall of famer. I think that when someone ever posts a 250+ IP season with 290+K's and an ERA less than 3.25 with a WHIP less than 1.09 multiple times, you've got a decent shot at the Hall on the basis that you were at multiple points in your career among the best if not the best. And Schilling's done it 4 times!

Of course, if your other seasons were league average or downright sucky, your "legend" is questionable... but Schilling pitched fabulously in his other seasons and yeah, the stats don't lie.

I really wish that sports would add playoff stats into career totals and not separate the playoff totals and career(regular season) totals.

I heard on the tv that he has the best playoff ERA for anyone with atleast 60 IP... now that's awesome!
Magpie - Tuesday, March 24 2009 @ 09:44 PM EDT (#197450) #

I beg to disagree.

Britney Spears is not a shoo-in for the rock'n'roll hall of fame.

At least, not while I still have breath left in my body.

VBF - Tuesday, March 24 2009 @ 09:55 PM EDT (#197451) #
There's no Hall of Fame more infuriating than the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. This "Hall" has somehow managed to induct Run DMC before inducting Jeff Beck, Rush, Kiss, Deep Purple, Guns n Roses, Motley Crue, and Alice Cooper. Even if you don't like those bands, there's no excuse to throw Run DMC before any of them. No argument exists.

Alex Obal - Tuesday, March 24 2009 @ 10:44 PM EDT (#197454) #
The Sex Pistols on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Mick Doherty - Wednesday, March 25 2009 @ 03:44 PM EDT (#197472) #

No argument exists.

Sure it does. There's a fair argument to be made that Run DMC brought rap music as a genre into the mainstream in a way that changed popular music forever. None of the others you list can say that -- Alice Cooper and Kiss had a unique look but their music, while great, was not really "groundbreaking" or "genre-defining."

Now, all that said, I don't think Run DMC belongs in the Rock Hall, and the argument I make above is in itself probably granting them wayyy too much credit. But the argument can be made.

Mike Green - Wednesday, March 25 2009 @ 04:03 PM EDT (#197474) #


Magpie-

I beg to disagree.Britney Spears is not a shoo-in for the rock'n'roll hall of fame. At least, not while I still have breath left in my body.

News item June 15, 2014-

Detective Adams announced that he had a break in the tough to crack Hardcastle, Jones and Simpson murders (the so-called Death by Pecking serial killings).  The victims were apparently all at one time music journalists who have expressed an interest in voting for Britney Spears in the upcoming Rock and Roll Hall of Fame voting.  Adams said that he plans to inspect the beaks of several rival music stars for clues.

zeppelinkm - Wednesday, March 25 2009 @ 06:23 PM EDT (#197481) #

Mick while your statement holds true for the majority of those bands, Jeff Beck truly was an innovator and master on the guitar. He inspired legions of people to pick up the guitar and his influence is one of those things that can't really be traced, although it is surely deep and far reaching. As well, Deep Purple is considered one of the first bands to mix classical musical elements with hard heavy rock, and are considered one of the early pioneers of the genre known as Heavy Metal (along with Led Zeppelin and a few others).

And really, while G&R didn't do anything groundbreaking, they're Guns and freaking Roses, and for Appetite for Destruction alone they should be enshrined in the Hall of Fame. 

Why do they call it the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? That name is really a misnomer. It should be called the Hall of Fame for Really Successful Mainstream Musicians With a Few Exceptions.  Not as catchy though... 

brent - Wednesday, March 25 2009 @ 07:34 PM EDT (#197483) #
James W - Wednesday, March 25 2009 @ 10:01 PM EDT (#197488) #

119 comments... anything in particular I should be looking for?  

James W - Wednesday, March 25 2009 @ 10:07 PM EDT (#197489) #
Nevermind, found it.  I'll look at Brown more, but in my mind he's not close, those stats notwithstanding.
James W - Wednesday, March 25 2009 @ 11:00 PM EDT (#197490) #
As I keep replying to myself, Brown's 1996-2001 period is something else.  I guess I wasn't paying enough attention to the National League at that point.  That 1.89 ERA in 233 IP for '96 is something else.
Schilling Calls It A Career | 23 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.