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Yesterday we looked at the extended spring training stats for the hitters, today it is the pitchers.  The stat sheet lists 44 pitchers of whom 26 pitched over 20 innings.  That 20 inning limit is what we will use for analysis today.  Most of the pitchers under 20 innings were hurt, are relievers, or players on rehab assignments.  The most innings pitched is 37 by Deivy Estrada.   Norris, Osuna, Musgrove and the other 2011 draftees were mainly in the upper 20's in innings pitched.

We will start by looking at those 2011 draftees.

                     H9  BB9    R9    K9    ERA
Daniel Norris       8.8  3.8  12.6   8.2   3.19
Kevin Comer        11.8  2.5  14.3   6.2   4.66
Jeremy Gabryszwski  7.8  0.8   8.6   7.0   3.68
Joe Musgrove        8.0  3.3  11.3   7.7   4.00
Tom Robson         11.6  5.4  17.0   2.1   6.37
Mark Biggs         10.4  4.3  14.7   6.8   4.95


Now we will look at some of the players from Latin America, some of these pitchers are still very young.

                    H9   BB9    R9    K9    ERA
Roberto Osuna      6.9   2.4   9.3  10.4   0.69
Alberto Tirado     9.9   3.1  13.0   6.5   3.72
Jairo Labourt      6.8   5.4  12.2   8.3   2.88
Yeyfry Del Rosario 7.6   5.0  12.6   7.9   3.28
Julio Carmona      9.5   5.6  15.1   8.6   6.31

I have heard that some of the Jays coaches have been impressed by Tirado.  He is just 17 and his stats look average but he reportedly has a power arm with a good breaking ball.  

You might notice that Adonys Cardona is not listed.  He missed all of extended spring but is back throwing off a mound now and should be on a short-season roster.


And here are some other pitchers of note: 

                      H9  BB9    R9    K9  ERA
Zak Adams            7.1  7.8  14.9   8.7  4.34
Taylor Cole          5.2  1.1   6.3  11.0  0.87
Deivy Estrada        7.8  2.9  10.7   8.8  2.43
Francisco Gracesqui  2.9  7.7  10.6   7.3  2.60
Griffin Murphy       8.2  2.2  10.4   7.6  3.94

One of these things is not like the others.  Taylor Cole is a 22 year old pitcher who took time out of his baseball career to go on a Mormon mission.  He is obviously too good for extended but there wasn't a spot for him in Lansing.  I assume he is headed back to Vancouver.

Last years extended spring pitcher stats did not act as a good predictor of what has happened over the subsequent 12 months. Last year Aaron Sanchez was walking too many hitters, a trend he continued into the Bluefield season, but that is something he has improved on this season. Justin Nicolino had a low hit rate and a low K rate in extended. The low hit rate endured but the low K rate disappeared in Vancouver. Pitchers are always a work in process. These guys are learning different pitches, improved mechanics and just how to pitch. The short season results will show how much they have learned.

Extended Spring Stats - Pitchers | 19 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
CeeBee - Friday, June 08 2012 @ 12:10 PM EDT (#258165) #
Thanks for the extended spring reports Gerry. I always look forward to reading prospect reports.
jester00 - Friday, June 08 2012 @ 12:11 PM EDT (#258166) #
Love the reports Gerry, appreciate it as always!!  Any word on why Cardona missed most of extended?
92-93 - Friday, June 08 2012 @ 12:24 PM EDT (#258167) #
"It's kind of frustrating, but at the same time, I know there's a goal, there's a plan that the Blue Jays have for me," Syndergaard said of alternating starts and relief outings. "I'm OK with it, but I definitely feel more comfortable starting. I still haven't figured out the relieving role. It would be a lot easier to acclimate to my routine if I was a starter every five days. The first few relief appearances, it was tough to get my arm loose, but I feel that I have a set routine going and get my arm loose."

Syndergaard's splits are noticeably different when he starts the game and when he relieves. I understand wanting to limit their innings and pitch counts, but have we received an explanation as to why all 3 of Nicolino, Syndergaard, and Sanchez can't start their own games? I hope it's not to get some other "non-prospect" arms the starts.
Gerry - Friday, June 08 2012 @ 12:43 PM EDT (#258170) #

I don't think the Blue Jays care if the Lansing "kids" start or relieve.  They just see it as innings pitched, getting your mound time.  I have never heard any of the coaches or instructors worry about starting or relieving.  The most promising players generally get assigned to start to make sure they get their innings in.  That works in a tandem situation or as a full time starter.  And if it stresses the pitcher is that a bad thing?  There is a 50/50 chance they end up as relievers down the road.  Finally, having the four tandem starters start their own games within, the 3 and 4 inning limits, changes the bullpen usage.  Now your seven man bullpen has to cover 5-6 innings 4 out of 5 nights.  It makes it tougher to have recovery days for the bullpen in there.

In any event the end of the first half is about a week away.  When the second half starts the "kids" will all start and be able to go 5 innings.

Nigel - Friday, June 08 2012 @ 02:07 PM EDT (#258184) #
While I agree that you shouldn't place too much emphasis on these stats for all the reasons mentioned, I do think that they can give you a sense of who may be more advanced and who might go to Vancouver like Nicolino did last year.  Judging by some subjective combination of h/9, bb/9 and k/9, it looks to me that Osuna and Gabryszwski would be ahead of the rest of the youngsters.  Given Osuna's age, they may not want to rush him of course.
China fan - Friday, June 08 2012 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#258185) #
Impressive numbers from Roberto Osuna, whom I presume is age 17. He had great scouting reviews when the Jays signed him. He was already pitching in the Mexican League at age 16, and he is reported to be very advanced for his age, with a fastball of 93-94 mph in international games in 2010. Any comments on him, Gerry? I'm very optimistic about the guy.
Gerry - Friday, June 08 2012 @ 02:16 PM EDT (#258187) #

Osuna is an experienced pitcher for his age.  He relies on a good fastball.  His body was a little big when he signed and the Jays are hoping he "muscles up" a bit and loses the fat.  I don't have much other than that, when the players are in extended spring they are working on developing pitches and mechanics and the coaches I talk to are reluctant to read too much into anything done there.   I think you will get more information once the short season leagues begin.

It will be interesting to see where the Jays assign Osuna.  Based on performance he could handle Bluefield but he is only 17 so they might prefer to keep him in the GCL.

MatO - Friday, June 08 2012 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#258200) #
I mentioned around Easter that Osuna pitched an inning against Michigan State in an annual game between them and Lansing that was televised.  Osuna threw almost exclusively fastballs mostly in the 93-94 range and basically was unhittable.  I don't know if there was deception in his delivery or what was the reason for it.
bcool - Friday, June 08 2012 @ 04:27 PM EDT (#258212) #
Thanks for this Gerry.

Looks like Osuna, Norris, and Gabrew are the ones we should keep an extra eye on once the short season teams get going.
China fan - Friday, June 08 2012 @ 04:38 PM EDT (#258213) #
Excuse my ignorance, Gerry, but in the charts above, what is "R9"?
China fan - Friday, June 08 2012 @ 04:40 PM EDT (#258214) #
Sorry, just figured it out. It's the total of H9 and BB9. Base runners per 9 innings.
MatO - Friday, June 08 2012 @ 04:42 PM EDT (#258215) #
I believe it's the total or the first 2 columns.  Hits + walks per 9 IP.  I guess R stands for runners.
MatO - Friday, June 08 2012 @ 04:44 PM EDT (#258216) #
Missed it by that much.
raptorsaddict - Saturday, June 09 2012 @ 04:53 PM EDT (#258267) #
This is why I love this site.

Can't believe there isn't more excitement about some of these young arms, particularly Osuna.

sam - Saturday, June 09 2012 @ 05:27 PM EDT (#258270) #
raptorsaddict, I agree this site is great for the reasons you suggest. Osuna indeed looks a good one for the future. However, I would caution against the unbridled enthusiasm. I may be speaking out of line here, but my understanding is that in these parts we've seen our fair share of prospects flame out to get excited about a pudgy seventeen year old with a high effort delivery. I think people in these parts look at prospects with critical and wary eyes. If dreaming on prospects and uncritical thinking is your cup of tea I suggest some of the other prospect related Blue Jays websites.

Take Noah Syndergaard as a prime example. After an exceptional year in short-season ball last year, most were ready to tell you he was a season away from the big leagues and Nolan Ryan's double. Syndergaard has since struggled this year and the very real concerns expressed here that he had issues commanding and throwing anything but a fastball have come to the forefront.

I don't think there's an arm right now in the Jays organization worth getting excited about. Any of the guys who project to have some very real top end value are at the very least several seasons away from the big leagues. Even then, injuries happen and any flaws will be exposed as the prospect moves through the organization. I personally, like to see these guys throw a couple times before I'm willing to get "excited" about a prospect. I saw Syndergaard throw earlier this year and he has a ways to go before he gets to AA, let alone the Big Leagues.
neurolaw - Saturday, June 09 2012 @ 09:05 PM EDT (#258284) #
Sam I agree with you.

I just don't see any point in getting excited about pitching prospects so far down. Among the 3 in Lansing the only one who really has top of the rotation potential is Aaron Sanchez but he like all prospects lacks command and he is a long way away from the majors. The fact that they are so far away also means the Jays can't really use them as trade bait.

Its these reasons that I love the Marcus Stroman pick. There is no one like him in the system who has his stuff and polish. Its also these types of guys that the Jays need to target for the rotation. Of course that is easier said than done.

92-93 - Saturday, June 09 2012 @ 09:47 PM EDT (#258286) #
That's a good one, raptorsaddict. Didn't think I'd see people suggesting the Jays prospects aren't receiving enough hype/attention.
92-93 - Monday, June 11 2012 @ 01:22 PM EDT (#258338) #
To add to my point on Syndergaard - DeSclafani, the guy he's tandem-starting with, was a reliever in college and has the reverse splits of Syndergaard, in that he's been much better this season as a reliever than as a starter. I don't understand why the Jays aren't giving Syndergaard all of those starts and letting DeSclafani come on in relief.
sam - Monday, June 11 2012 @ 04:45 PM EDT (#258354) #
Re: Syndergaard and Desclafani. I'm not sure what the big deal is here. Syndergaard is still a pitcher with undeveloped secondary stuff in his first season of full-season ball. I'm sure all the developmental people are saying, "tough break big guy, part of being a professional ballplayer is getting yourself ready to play irregardless of the circumstance." Syndergaard knows he's coming in at a certain time and the staff are treating his "relief" appearances as starts. Everything is set up so that he prepares as if to start. It's up to him to get himself ready to come in the fourth inning. If anything development staff and scouts will view this as a red-flag as someone who doesn't prepare properly and clearly has issues coming in to relieve.
Extended Spring Stats - Pitchers | 19 comments | Create New Account
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