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Andy Pettitte is, in my opinion, the Yankees' best starting pitcher when healthy. He's now become a full-fledged power pitcher, with good control and sharp breaking pitch. He cuts off the running game with the best of them. He does get in trouble when he leaves the ball out over the plate to righthanded hitters.

Cory Lidle's main strength is his control. Avoiding walks and keeping the ball in the park is a must against the Yankees.
After the action-packed opener, it's game 2 against the Bro | 39 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Pistol - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 03:48 PM EST (#91716) #
Is Berg that much better than F-Cat against lefties that Berg would start today, or are they trying to rest F-Cat a lot?
_Gwyn - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 04:10 PM EST (#91717) #
They are both significantly better against righties, by the numbers. Little Cat only has 91 ABs against lefties over the last three years though (866 against righties).

He was injured for a lot of the spring of course so maybe they're breaking him in gently, and it can't hurt to get the bench players into games early.
robertdudek - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 04:52 PM EST (#91718) #
The Jays have been getting ahead in the count but have been doing nothing with those pitches. Hardly any hard hit balls - Pettitte is locating well.
_Cristian - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 05:07 PM EST (#91719) #
If anyone should be platooned against left-handed pitchers, it is Delgado. He looks absolutely lost out there.
robertdudek - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 05:12 PM EST (#91720) #
Lidle made a few mistakes in the zone and paid dearly. You've gotta tip your cap to Giambi and Posada. Overall a good performance, with 7 K and 0 W. Against another team it might have been 1 solo homerun and 6 innings, 1 run against. We'll see how Halladay and Lidle do against a "normal" offence.
robertdudek - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 05:14 PM EST (#91721) #

Get a grip. Every hitter looks bad sometimes. Pettitte has pretty good stuff.
_55yearsinprobal - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 05:23 PM EST (#91722) #
Are we gonna see another 200-plus Delgado AB scripts this year that go: (1) Watch hittable strike called; (2) foul off breaking pitch; (3) reach for inevitable ground-out?
_Sean - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 05:37 PM EST (#91723) #
Perhaps. I'd hardly call Delgado's hitting credentials into question. Why should we second-guess the Jays' best hitter two games into the season?
_Sean - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 05:37 PM EST (#91724) #
Perhaps. I'd hardly call Delgado's hitting credentials into question. Why should we second-guess the Jays' best hitter two games into the season?
_Sean - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 05:39 PM EST (#91725) #
We should criticize the Jays' best hitter after fewer than 8 ABs this season?!
_Sean - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 05:40 PM EST (#91726) #
Sorry for the #@$ double post.
Gitz - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 05:49 PM EST (#91727) #
I don't know how you can say Pettitte is better than Mussina or Clemens. He's not a power pitcher now, nor has he ever been. For the last five years, he's given up more than a hit per inning; power pitchers don't do that. For comparison's sake, Clemens has allowed more hits than innings twice in his career, and one of those was in his rookie season. Mussina, who certainly isn't a true power pitcher, either, has also only allowed more hits than innings twice.

Pettitte is a fine pitcher, no doubt, but he can't really compare to Clemens or the Moose. And by the end of this year, Weaver will be better than Pettitte, too.
Gitz - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 05:52 PM EST (#91728) #
By the way ... were Jays' fans just booing Delgado?! I thought all you Canadians were nice, peaceful folk!
_dp - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 05:59 PM EST (#91729) #
Why is Wilson hitting here instead of Cat? This is the danger of having guys like Myers and Wilson on the team with Tosca at the helm- he doesn't use his bench well. Wilson had a .628 OPS against RHP last year. What the hell is the point of carrying three catchers if you're not going to use them? Dumb, dumb move by Tosca- the Jays were within striking distance, and he basically gave the chance by sending a horrid hitter up there.
_Scott Lucas - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 06:08 PM EST (#91730) #
Avoiding walks and keeping the ball in the park is a must against the Yankees.

Lidle was 50% successful. Zero walks, three homers allowed.
_Scott Lucas - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 06:09 PM EST (#91731) #
Avoiding walks and keeping the ball in the park is a must against the Yankees.

Lidle was 50% successful. Zero walks, three homers allowed.
robertdudek - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 06:17 PM EST (#91732) #

Look at Clemens' numbers since he came to the Yankees. Moose is possibly the better pitcher, but I'm not convinced he isn't on a serious down slope.
_Cristian - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 06:21 PM EST (#91733) #
I'm criticizing Delgado for his putrid hitting against left-handers. I'm not criticizing Delgado for being a bad hitter in general, especially after 8 at bats. If you don't believe he's awful against left handers, check out his platoon splits.

2002 obp/slugging/ops

vs. RHP .444/.646/1.090
vs. LHP .325/.360/.685

Delgado is a good hitter, arguably the best the Jays have. However, it can't be denied that he is awful against lefties. If you want to talk 'intangibles' instead of stats, he appeared lost against Pettite today.

I don't know, maybe I'm still angry at having to listen to God Bless America in Canada to show our support for troops we do not support.
robertdudek - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 06:32 PM EST (#91734) #
There's no doubt Delgado is much better against righthanders, but:


vs LHP: .355 OBP, .461 SLG (1109 AB)
vs RHP: .403 OBP, .589 SLG (2874 AB)

That doesn't look too awful versus lefties.
_Gwyn - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 06:39 PM EST (#91735) #
Delgado has had a pretty dramatic collapse is his ability to hit lefties the last two years:

1999 1.201 OPS (152 AB)
2000 .959 (188 AB)
2001 .771 (171 AB)
2002 .685 (182 AB)

Anyone have any good theories why ?
_55years - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 06:52 PM EST (#91736) #
Well, perhaps he's up there without plan of attack. If Delgado is the Jays best hitter--by some measurements--he surely isn't in terms of offensive production relative to earnings. It may be unreasonable to expect a return of the 2000 man, but his allegedly solving his stance problems appears to have had little effect on the wasted, clueless, at-bats that seem to occur once or twice a game for the last two years...only one of those today...the rest of the time he was just missing.
Gitz - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 07:15 PM EST (#91737) #
I'm really surprised they're playing God Bless America in Canadian stadiume; the U.S. national anthem seems less in-your-face patriotism/nationalism, and it seems like a reasonable compromise.

By the way, I'm pre-empting excuses for Escobar's lousy outing. I don't want to hear (read?) "He's not used to pitching in non-save situations, so he didn't give his best." Garbage. Either you play hard every day, win or lose, or you don't play. You hear the same excuse sometimes when regulars take a day off and are asked to pinch-hit in the later innings. I'll accept the "He's cold from sitting all game" reason; that is valid. I'll hear none of the "He doesn't know what to do " gibberish. Here's a hint: GET ON BASE. That's what hitters are supposed to do!
_Justin B. - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 07:41 PM EST (#91738) #
"Arguably" the best hitter on the Jays? Dare I ask who could be called a better hitter than Delgado, and by what metric?
_dp - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 08:25 PM EST (#91739) #
Am I the only one troubled by Tosca's managing? If this was NY, he'd be getting skeweredall over for his idiotic and inexplicable strategy. JP needs to whip some sense into his boy.
Coach - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 08:25 PM EST (#91740) #
I think a lot of hitters -- Delgado, Phelps, Hudson, Woodward -- are just pressing in front of the home crowd, and this team might have been better off opening on the road. Today was just "one of those games", until Escobar came in and made it ugly. Lidle left a couple of pitches up, and paid dearly -- sometimes, those are atom balls for outs, instead of homers. Cory has better stuff than I thought. Doug "Up On Cripple" Creek doesn't have much finesse, but he got his lefties out. Jeff Tam seemed a bit nervous; he has lots of quirks, and might be a guy who thinks too much. Politte looked too strong -- my theory is, he's better when he's used a lot and a bit tired. He didn't unveil the new changeup at all.

I had a much better seat, right over the ump's shoulder, and thought Pettitte did an OK job, but except for Stewart, Berg and Wilson, the Jays were getting themselves out, instead of waiting for their pitches. They will get into a better collective groove sooner or later; I'm not worried at all.

Did the crazy little old Japanese guy with the top hat and the flag get any TV time? He was hilarious. I chatted for several innings with two young men from Tokyo who were beginners at speaking English but knew a lot about baseball; "crazy" was their term for their countryman, not mine. They told me the "other" Matsui can be a big-league shortstop, and there's a closer they think is almost as good as Sasaki, but his name was lost in the translation.

Some canned organ music and trumpet -- "charge!" -- didn't detract from the game, and mercifully, the other sound effects have been silenced. I'm really impressed with the marketing efforts; joined the True Jays program and scored a key chain, but the more games you attend, the better the rewards. Now that I have my $81 season pass, I'm not even complaining about premium pricing.
_John Sterling - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 08:45 PM EST (#91741) #
Yankees win! Yankees win! TheUHHHHHH Yankees win!
Coach - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 08:49 PM EST (#91742) #
dp, I thought Tosca did a fine job today; why hit for Wilson when Tom -- maybe we should call him Junkhouse -- was swinging a hot bat? Carlos rested Cat, a good precautionary move for a day game after a night game, and got Berg, one of his hottest hitters all spring, into the lineup. He also got everyone in the bullpen except Lopez some needed work in a lost cause. Best of all, he sat Huckaby. John McGraw or Casey Stengel on their best day wouldn't have changed this outcome, and I can't second-guess a thing, with the possible exception of leaving the prima donna Escobar in when it was obvious Kelvim doesn't care. He'll be harder to trade with a 36.00 ERA; I might have gone to Aquilino.
_Sean - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 09:31 PM EST (#91743) #
At least Tosca didn't pinch hit for his best hitter in a key situation--Alan Trammell pulled Carlos Pena yesterday, which has to qualify as one of the worst moves made by a rookie manager.
_Shane - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 09:46 PM EST (#91744) #
Anyone remember reading an article this past offseason charting Cory Lidle's career groundball/fly ball ratios? If i'm remembering correctly, in '02 he allowed significant more flyballs to groundballs than he had in his previous years, suggesting he wasn't really a 'groundball pitcher'. Maybe i'm dreaming?

The seven stikeouts are nice, but including the three dingers with seven fly ball outs, he only had four groundouts. A ratio of 10 to 4 at Skydome -- not exactly a pitchers park. Maybe something to keep an eye on.
_Jonny German - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 11:01 PM EST (#91745) #
Warning: Hijack ahead. I won't dignify today's pounding with a comment.

If you still haven't had your fill of contests, here's one more. One more chance to prove you're smarter than the other Batter's Box readers, and sizeable prizes for a free contest. Did I mention getting something more entertaining than Richard Griffin from the Star? Yes indeed, it's StarBall. Entry deadline is April 21.
_benum - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 11:11 PM EST (#91746) #
As far as Wilson in the 8th with the bases loaded (that dp complains about above)...
Am I correct in assuming that the Yanks were warming up a lefty in the pen? (I didn't see the game)

I assume that they were and that Toscas choice would have been Wilson v.s. RH or Cat/Myers v.s. LH.

Myers 3 Year splits v.s. LH (2000-2002)
.212/.255/.346 (.601 OPS in 52 AB's)

Cat 3 Year splits v.s. LH (2000-2002)
.286/.400/.374 (.774 OPS in 91 AB's)

Wilson 3 Year splits v.s. RH (2000-2002)
.220/.293/.350 (.643 OPS in 200 AB's)

Hmmm, the sample size for all 3 is too small IMO. We're talking equiv. to less than 1/2 a season worth of playing time for Wilson, less than 1/4 for Cat and 1/10 for Myers.

If the Yanks brought in a lefty, it would be Hammond.
In his ridiculous year last year he held lefties to .174/.230/.228
(.458 OPS in 92 AB's). It's difficult to use a 3 year split for Hammond as he didn't play in the majors between 1998 and 2002. If last year wasn't some kind of unsustainable Mazzone voodoo, his career splits (which I don't have anyway) might be too high to reflect his current ability.


Wilson v.s. a RH in an inning that had gone to that point:

fly out to left
double to deep left
double to deep center
strike out

Or Cat v.s. a lefty who was very tough last year

I don't think it's indefensable to stick with Wilson
_dp - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 11:32 PM EST (#91747) #
Call me a seamhead, but this "hot bat" thing doesn't outweigh the fact that Wilson's never been able to hit RHP.

OPS vs RHP (last 3 years):
Cat .850

The Jays had one shot at making this a game, and Tosca sent up the equivalent of Rey Ordonez with superior hitters on the bench. Yankee anouncers said Hammond's best pitch, the change, is pretty ineffective against LHB, do even if the Yanks counter with a pitching change, the platoon advantage isn't that extreme. Woodward is a better hitter against RHP than LHP, so it isn't like he was saving Cat, and with 2 outs and the bases loaded, saving him is pointless anyway.

An inexcusable move by Tosca IMO. He and JP should be having a long talk right now.
_dp - Tuesday, April 01 2003 @ 11:54 PM EST (#91748) #
Sorry, my post was written when I hadn't refreshed in a while. Benum, you make a good point, but I take the chance on the Yanks making the switch. Wilson's sample size vs. RHP is pretty decent- enough to show that hitting them isn't a skill he has. It seemed like shades of Cito.
robertdudek - Wednesday, April 02 2003 @ 12:47 AM EST (#91749) #

The pitcher would have had the platoon edge regardless. Catalanotto has not faced lefties on a regular basis (about nine AB vs RHP for every one versus LHP 2000-2002) - which means his managers thought he couldn't hit them and they benched him accordingly. It is entirely possible that almost all the lefties he has faced are the non-lethal variety.

It certainly isn't inexcusable to stick with Wilson. He's had about 225 PA versus righties in his career - that isn't a lot to go on. You're making a mountain out of mini-mole hill. Even If Cat vs Hammonds gives a very very slight improvement over Wilson vs Osuna, the effect on your chances of coming all the way back are still going to be tiny.

What is indefensible is not having a 4th outfielder on the team.
Gitz - Wednesday, April 02 2003 @ 12:58 AM EST (#91750) #
Werth is back soon, no? Won't that solve the 4th OF conundrum?
_benum - Wednesday, April 02 2003 @ 04:13 AM EST (#91751) #
lew ford....

(trade for him)
robertdudek - Wednesday, April 02 2003 @ 08:29 AM EST (#91752) #

I don't know about soon. He's apparently almost ready to hit, but he's had so few AB this spring that he'll likely need 2-3 weeks of rehab in Syracuse or Dunedin to get up to speed.
_lurd - Wednesday, April 02 2003 @ 10:05 AM EST (#91753) #
>The Jays had one shot at making this a game, and Tosca sent up the equivalent of Rey Ordonez with superior hitters on the bench.

They could have used Rey yesterday. He crushed Red Sox pitching for a double, HR and 4 RBI.
_M.P. Moffatt - Wednesday, April 02 2003 @ 10:09 AM EST (#91754) #
Sure, the Jays record right now might be 0-2, but have faith....

Pythagoras says that the Jays should be 0.1432-1.8567. :)

After the action-packed opener, it's game 2 against the Bro | 39 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.