Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - San Francisco at Toronto, July 18-20

Break's over.

The Giants are making their first visit north of the border since June 2023; last year the Jays took two of three at (checks) Oracle Park. The teams have split 32 games since their first meeting in 2002, with each side going 9-7 at home (and 7-9 on the road, duh!)

The Giants have already made what seems certain to be their biggest mid-season transaction, acquiring Rafael Devers from the Red Sox. It hasn't helped much so far. They were 41-31 when they made deal, two games behind the Dodgers in second place in the NL West. They've gone 11-14 since, slipping to third place, six games out.

While Devers has reportedly expressed a willingness to play first base in San Francisco, he doesn't seem to have a lot of enthusiasm for learning the position in mid-season. All of his Giants appearances have come as the DH. As LaMonte Wade has already been banished to Anaheim, utility person Casey Schmidt has been getting most of the first base starts in recent weeks. Devers hasn't exactly set northern California on fire (.202/.330/.326), but he hit very well (.307/.368/.569) against the Blue Jays in a Boston uniform, and he hit especially well (.3623/.401/.605 with 12 HR in 44 games) at the Rogers Centre.

Justin Verlander takes the ball for the Giants tonight, still looking for his first W of 2025, which would be # 263 of his remarkable career. As he'll be quick to tell you, he really has pitched better than the 0-7, 4.70 line would suggest - he's taken three Tough Losses, and pitched well enough to win four of his No Decisions.

The Giants haven't announced their starters for the rest of the weekend. Logan Webb had been following Verlander in the rotation - he did work an inning in Tuesday's All-Star Game. They could start him anyway, they could push him back to Sunday. Old friend Robbie Ray last pitched on Sunday, so we might see him on Saturday. Once Bob Melvin and J.P. Martinez make up their minds.

Matchups

Fri 18 July - Verlander (0-7, 4.70) vs Bassitt (9-4, 4.12)
Sat 19 July - S.Guy (?-?, ?.??) vs Lauer (4-2, 2.78)
Sun 20 July - A.Guy (?-?, ?.??) vs Berrios (5-4, 3.75)

Posted by Magpie on Friday, July 18 2025 @ 11:00 AM EDT.

San Francisco at Toronto, July 18-20 | 60 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

dalimon5 - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 11:11 AM EDT (#463786) #

Full Disclosure - I am obsessed with the trade deadline and look for every possible rumour I can over the next couple of weeks. It's a painful addiction.

I heard from Jim Bowden that the Pirates and Cubs had a deal in place for Mitch Keller and Owen Caissie but the Pirates pulled out at the last minute.

scottt - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 11:35 AM EDT (#463787) #

The Jays have decided to use the break to re-sequence the lineup.
Bassitt throws over 40% sinker. Berrios is 32% sinker, 27% slurve.

Scherzer has thrown 47% 4-seamers and Gausman 53%.
I though they wanted to split those as well.

hypobole - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 12:21 PM EDT (#463788) #

Verlander has made 15 consecutive starts from opening day this season, and as Magpie pointed out, is still winless. That apparently is a Giants record. Makes sense, since most pitchers would have been pulled from the rotation by then.

The MLB record for most consecutive starts without a win is 28, done 3 times, so he's barely halfway there. The last pitcher who did it was pulled from the rotation at times for relief work, but kept getting chances starting. And he got his record 28th winless start in a Blue Jays uniform. Anyone remember who that was?

greenfrog - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 12:51 PM EDT (#463789) #

Verlander is averaging 94.0 MPH on his FB this year, compared to 94.8 MPH over his career. Pretty good for a 42-year-old! He’s declined in recent years but he’s still having a respectable season as a back-end SP.

Could be a good matchup for Barger.

Cracka - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 12:54 PM EDT (#463790) #

Jo-Jo!?!?! I remember him as a hard-luck chronic loser...

hypobole - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 01:15 PM EDT (#463791) #

Cracka with the win. Everyone else a no decision.

Magpie - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 01:16 PM EDT (#463792) #

Jo-Jo was a man who thought he was a pitcher, but he was another guy

pooks137 - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 01:31 PM EDT (#463793) #

Old friend Rowdy Tellez rising again from the ashes, this time with Texas after Jake Burger got hurt.

Deadline-ish trades over the ASB include a slap hitting Adam Frazier going from PIT back to KC for a 28 y/o AAAA infielder.

Dane Dunning, stuck in the minors, was traded from TEX to ATL for a 30 y/o reliever in Jose Ruiz.

Frazier and Dunning weren't exactly hot commodities, but acquisition prices so far have been remarkably low.

hypobole - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 01:48 PM EDT (#463795) #

Giants select Matt Gage. Maybe see him this weekend.
And the Cubs have agreed to sign Spencer Turnbull.

Marc Hulet - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 01:49 PM EDT (#463796) #

My Top 10 Valuable Trade Assets for the Jays:
1. Kendry Rojas, LHP, AA
2. Trey Yesavage, RHP, AA
3. Khal Stephens, RHP, AA
4. Arjun Niimmala, SS, low-A
5. Johnny King, LHP, low-A
6. Gage Stanifer, RHP, high-A
7. Victor Arias, OF, AA
8. Juaron Watts-Brown, RHP, AA
9. RJ Schreck, OF, AAA
10. Edward Duran, C, high-A

Non-prospects: Alan Roden, Leo Jimenez, Jonatan Clase, Joey Loperfido, Braydon Fisher

Others that might intrigue: S. Hechavarria, Y. Licourt, S. Shaw, J. Sanchez, C. McAdoo, Y. Pinango, L. Maroudis

dalimon5 - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 01:52 PM EDT (#463797) #

I still think people are sleeping on Tiedemann. Just because he's recovering from TJ doesn't mean he won't be pitching in the SHOW likely before all or most of the people on that list.

hypobole - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 01:58 PM EDT (#463798) #

I think the AAAA guy will get a shot to play for the Pirates after they clear out some guys at the deadline. And he may well out-preform Frazier.

finch - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 02:22 PM EDT (#463799) #

I think the Jays will hunt for trade partners that are looking to compete next season. I believe the Jays will try to move their AAAA type players (Clase, Roden, Jimenez, Orelvis Martinez, etc).

Glevin - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 02:32 PM EDT (#463800) #

Yankees have set their rotation so that Fried and Rodon will pitch against Jays which makes sense for them but hopefully Braves make them pay this weekend. Varsho going to Dunedin for rehab. Would be nice if he's back for Yankees but with them throwing two lefties, less of a rush.

Petey Baseball - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 02:38 PM EDT (#463801) #

I think Tiedemann will be traded this deadline.

dalimon5 - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 02:41 PM EDT (#463802) #

I hope they don't because his value is the lowest and I don't see him as a Pearson-McGowan type.

I don't want to trade any of the prospects on Hulet's list because they all look so tantalizing. At the same time perhaps now is the best time to trade some of them. I would prefer to trade "high" value prospects rather than a low value asset who can become high again. Trade Stephen King, Stanifer before Tiedemann

Marc Hulet - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 02:44 PM EDT (#463803) #

I appreciate the enthusiasm on Tiedemann but he had full TJ on 7/30/24... and the recovery is 12-14 months. He pitched a total of 44 innings (plus AFL) in 2023 and 17.1 innings in 2024. In his career, he has just 45 innings at AA and AAA with an ERA well above 5.00.

He's going to need a good chunk of MiLB time... and neither Barriera nor Maroudis came back at full strength.

dalimon5 - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 02:45 PM EDT (#463804) #

Tiedemann BTW is up to 95MPH 11.5 months after TJ surgery. He was at 98MPH with his sinker and his change up is still deadly.

dalimon5 - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 02:49 PM EDT (#463805) #

Here is Keith Law's report on him last year before the injury:

"Tiedeman threw just 44 innings in the regular season around injuries to his left shoulder and biceps, making four starts in the AFL to try to make up for some of the lost time. He did regain the velocity that had been missing at the end of 2022, bumping 98 mph and pitching at 93-96 in the outing I saw in the desert, with a plus changeup and a big-breaking slider that wasn’t up to its past standard that day. The slider’s pretty high spin and has good tilt, giving him two real weapons, one for lefties and one for righties, which also helps as his fastball doesn’t have a ton of life or movement and hitters square it up more than the velocity might imply. His delivery isn’t ideal for durability, as his shoulder stays open late, with some sling to the arm stroke, and that might be putting undue pressure on the joint. You have to start a guy with these weapons, and if he stays healthy enough for it he’s a mid-rotation starter or better depending on the control (maybe 45 now, but he’s shown better) and command (40). Two years of missed time and suboptimal mechanics give him a lot of reliever risk, though."

So the wort that could have happened has happened. He's got nowhere to go but up at this point. Similar to the Marlins apparently not trading Alcantara because his value right now is too low, the Jays aught to keep Tiedemann because the chance of him being more valuable to them as a starter is higher than the value he would likely bring back in trade. This guys closer to a Schwellenbach than a Whitley.

Marc Hulet - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 02:58 PM EDT (#463806) #

That Law clip doesn't really change anything or add any context I didn't already know. The talent is there but he has yet to harness it in the upper levels of the minors so looking for him to reach the majors and be impactfuk soon is... aggressive.

Barriera was at 100 mph coming back from hybrid TJ and still imploded. The tough part, from what I've read, is the muscle memory and the mental aspect.

dalimon5 - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 03:01 PM EDT (#463807) #

"The talent is there but he has yet to harness it in the upper levels of the minors so looking for him to reach the majors and be impactfuk soon is... aggressive."

This is true for every prospect from your list. I am saying Tiedemann should not be excluded outside of your top 10 due to injury since he is on the mend. The only reasonable explanation is if you think "damaged goods" means he won't ever come back but TJ success for pitchers his age are high. Barriera was never in the same class as Ricky.

Marc Hulet - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#463810) #

Tiedemann's not on the list because his current value is not worth his potential value so it makes no sense to trade him unless the acquiring team actually views him at a fair value... which is unlikely.

pooks137 - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#463811) #

I think the AAAA guy will get a shot to play for the Pirates after they clear out some guys at the deadline. And he may well out-preform Frazier.

I don't know much about Cam Devanney, the 28 y/o infielder they got from KC for Adam Frazier.

But it seems like KC picked up a cheap rental in Frazier (salary something like 1.35 mil) for the equivalent of a Will Robertson-type.

And as we saw with Robertson dealt to the CWS, he was deemed to have no value to the league.

I'd argue the Jays gave up more value in that fireballing A-baller Martin to acquire Robinson Pina than either of the first two minor deadline deals (though the Braves are arguably out of the race).

Other old friend news

- Richard Lovelady DFAed by the NYM

- Trevor Richards called up by the DBacks

- Michael Petersen dealt back to MIA from ATL

dalimon5 - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 03:29 PM EDT (#463812) #

@ Pooks you forgot Derek Law

@ Marc ok so we think the same then

Glevin - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#463813) #

I would trade anyone depending in return. Controllable assets? Absolutely. Rental for non elite player? Just not into giving a top prospect for that. I'd be a bit hesitant to trade Nimmala because of lack of position player prospects but also because of what having a Desi star player would mean for Toronto and the franchise. I don't know the most recent numbers but I'd guess there are around 1.5-2 million south Asians in the Toronto area. I'd absolutely trade him but it adds another level of complication IMO.

hypobole - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 03:58 PM EDT (#463814) #

"I don't know much about Cam Devanney, the 28 y/o infielder they got from KC for Adam Frazier."

He was the 10th ranked KC prospect, 40+ FV at FG. He's an infielder with a 137 wRC+ in AAA. "Devanney has pulled off a substantial swing change to start 2025 – his fourth season in Triple-A – and is on a massive power-hitting heater."

Frazier has been worth 0.1/0.4 WAR this year. He's an "upgrade" because the guys he's replacing have negative value. But KC has won 7 of their last 10 and is on the far fringes of the playoff race. The FO made a move now, getting a player I imagine is well liked in the clubhouse, hoping to provide a spark by showing they are trying. "hey guys, we believe in you - here is some help."

It's in almost all likelihood not nearly enough. But if it doesn't work, they can still sell in a couple of weeks.

pooks137 - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 04:08 PM EDT (#463815) #

He was the 10th ranked KC prospect, 40+ FV at FG.

Thanks hypobole.

Still having a hard time rationalizing FG including 28 y/o prospects in their rankings. I usually have a cutoff of 25-26 myself. Hence my Will Robertson comparisons.

Heck, in this very thread you have Marc Hulet declaring Jonatan Clase, Alan Roden and Orelvis Martinez "non prospects".

Derek Law

Thanks Dalimon. I hadn't heard the news.

TBH, I wasn't aware Law was still playing. He's now 34 and was just announced he's done for the year with flexor tendon surgery after a total of 2 AA 2025 rehab innings witn the Nationals.

I believe I vaguely remember the two games he pitched against the Jays in 2024 looking it up. But if I'd had to guess before, I would've said it was this spring instead (which is impossible as Law didn't pitch in 2025 in the majors.)

Glevin - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 04:10 PM EDT (#463816) #

Yimi now having shoulder issues looked at. Jays need a backend reliever as #1 need (in likelihood of ace not available) and maybe another middle reliever.

SK in NJ - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 04:25 PM EDT (#463817) #

Some injury updates from Zwelling:

- Garcia "recently began experiencing ulnar nerve symptoms in his right elbow".

- Burr is done for the season (shoulder surgery)

- Santander has yet to resume swinging.

If Santander is going to be out longer than expected, then adding a power bat becomes more of a priority. The Jays were going to have to add bullpen help regardless, but an injury to Garcia amplifies that as well.

greenfrog - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 05:21 PM EDT (#463819) #

I think the Blue Jays will offer a major prospect package to the Twins for Ryan and a reliever (Duran or Jax). Maybe they can get a deal done.

Petey Baseball - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 06:24 PM EDT (#463822) #

I do not think Joe Ryan would be a good use of a top prospect package. He is a mid-rotation starter and the Jays already have four of those.

Duran would be worth giving up a lot for.

Petey Baseball - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 06:26 PM EDT (#463823) #

I would offer the Rangers their choice of Nimmala or Yesavage, plus one of Schneider, Loperfido, Lukes, Wagner or Clase. I'd also pick up the salary.

Petey Baseball - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 06:26 PM EDT (#463824) #

For Jacob DeGrom

99BlueJaysWay - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 06:35 PM EDT (#463825) #

Dalimon - keep the rumours coming buddy!

I’m also very excited for the deadline this year!

Glevin - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 06:41 PM EDT (#463826) #

Joe Ryan is a top-20 starter in baseball by pretty much any metric and has been for a few years. Not sure how that's mid-rotation. Worth much more than any bullpen guy.

greenfrog - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 06:46 PM EDT (#463827) #

To each their own!

If I had to give up Yesavage or Nimmala in a trade, I would part with Yesavage.

Petey Baseball - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 06:55 PM EDT (#463828) #

Glevin, I'm basing my opinion on what Baseball Reference tells me about his career. A career 3.70 ERA is good but not great, in my books. I'd willing to walk back my description of him from "mid-rotation" to "good, but not an ace." It is my opinion, as I've put before, the team needs an ace if it is serious about advancing far in the post season. It is also my opinion the owner and the front office are shooting a little higher than past years. This has been backed up by Jim Bowden's reporting recently and imagine it will be picked up more on in the coming days.

greenfrog - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 06:57 PM EDT (#463829) #

I would rather have Ryan than deGrom. As I’ve mentioned previously, the two pitchers have posted about equal value this season, with very similar K and BB rates. But Ryan is 29 and has low mileage on his arm. deGrom is 37, is frequently injured for long stretches, and carries a big contract (2.5 years remaining at $37m AAV). Texas would be wise to cash in that trade chip in the next couple of weeks if they get a big offer.

I would be happy if the Blue Jays acquired deGrom, but I don’t think he’s the best use of their best prospect capital.

mathesond - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 06:57 PM EDT (#463830) #

How reliable is Jim Bowden? I stopped reading him years ago, has he gotten better?

JoJo Parker signed for about $600K under slot, according to the radio.

Hodgie - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 07:13 PM EDT (#463831) #

At this point, it is fair to wonder whether we will see Santander again this season. The Jays' track record of managing injuries is, well, it's not great, Bob.

hypobole - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 07:18 PM EDT (#463832) #

The signings plus the 5% overage gives the Jays about $1.5 million for overslots so far.

92-93 - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 07:33 PM EDT (#463833) #

Because in '26-27 he will make just over half of what Degrom makes next year, Ryan will presumably cost a lot more of that precious prospect capital, a lot more than it took to bring Berrios here. I'm with you, Petey Baseball, and understood your comment to mean that Ryan is a mid-rotation starter for a team that fancies itself a serious contender (which isn't a slight). Degrom has much higher upside and would be a huge addition, but the Rangers have the kind of schedule that can keep them in the race.

finch - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 07:35 PM EDT (#463834) #

Jake Cook just signed, $71,400 under slot ($922,500)

finch - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 07:38 PM EDT (#463836) #

Blaine Bullard signed for a record amount given for a pick in the 12th round. $1,697,500

Great draft!

https://twitter.com/jimcallismlb/status/1946349115857600836?s=46&t=diXnpShw9OcRP2je1fU-dw

soupman - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 07:47 PM EDT (#463837) #

DeGrom has not “frequently been injured for long stretches”. He has had three elbow surgeries in his life and about five years of clean health after each. When healthy he’s been the best pitcher on the planet for long stretches.

Somehow the Mets not having him go under the knife in 2021 (after 5 years of clean health) for his elbow led to more throwing arm issues until he had it surgically repaired in 2023. He hasn’t missed a start all year. He threw 100mph (fastest pitch this year) in his last start…

92-93 - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 07:48 PM EDT (#463838) #

Vladdy simply has to be better than that ahead in the count in an RBI spot. I would've sent Lukes up 4-0.

92-93 - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 07:51 PM EDT (#463839) #

A fastball to Bichette's ribs with first base open? Yikes...

greenfrog - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 07:56 PM EDT (#463840) #

Let’s assume the Blue Jays acquire deGrom with a view to making a deep run in the postseason. How many more innings would the 37-year-old need to pitch in the second half and the postseason combined in a WS run? 100? 120? What are the chances he stays healthy enough to do that? Is he going to pitch more innings in 2025 than he did in the last four years combined (from 10.2 IP in 2024 to 210+ innings in 2025)? Having a name-brand ace isn’t going to help you if he’s on the IL.

92-93 - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 08:08 PM EDT (#463841) #

It's a bit counter-intuitive, but with first and Kirk on second, no outs, I'd have Clement bunt to avoid the DP. Worst case scenario you get Kirky off the bases. Clement is allergic to ribbies anyway.

greenfrog - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 08:13 PM EDT (#463842) #

In other happy news, the Yankees are currently down 6-0 to Atlanta (Strider).

Petey Baseball - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 08:17 PM EDT (#463843) #

greenfrog, sure there's no question he's an injury risk. But if the team wins a division title and a gets to a World Series because he's one of the best pitchers in baseball, he could blow out his arm afterwards and it would still be worth it.

I wrote in the other thread, the Jays operated in the off-season (and the previous off-season, fwiw) as a team willing to take risks with injuries and money. They paid big for upside in Hoffman ( considerable injury risk) and Santander, paid big in veteran presents (as Keith Law once said) for Scherzer. They added a big contract in Giminez through trade.

I see them looking for the very best player available, with very little regard for the cost. I'm all for it.

Petey Baseball - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 08:19 PM EDT (#463844) #

Just as a sidenote, this is so much better than talking about selling at the trade deadline. Been around Da Box since 2003 (kids that means we actually had a chat room for the games), and we've only seen a few of these type seasons.

mathesond - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 08:21 PM EDT (#463845) #

Agreed Petey, season like this are much more enjoyable than "Dave Berg, cleanup hitter"

soupman - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 08:22 PM EDT (#463846) #

He has a new UCL and the last one he got lasted 13 years. I don’t think hard innings limits are going to be around much longer- so I’m not particularly worried about any of that.

soupman - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 08:23 PM EDT (#463847) #

I’m absolutely questioning this. What is the risk of a UCL failing when you’re 2+ years removed from surgery and throwing at your previous level?

Marc Hulet - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 08:30 PM EDT (#463848) #

Jays look pretty good but I feel like the bullpen needs a 6-run lead.

Loperfido looks like a different hitter in the small sample size.

Vladdy continues to look like one of the least dangerous hitters in the lineup, which is weird.

greenfrog - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 08:36 PM EDT (#463850) #

Bassitt is pitching up a storm tonight. Velocity isn’t everything…

92-93 - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 08:40 PM EDT (#463851) #

Bassitt is very fortunate he hasn't given up any runs. Two hard hit groundballs for double plays and a ball scorched right at the leftfielder with two men on. The swings and misses are great, though.

greenfrog - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 08:44 PM EDT (#463852) #

Bassitt through 5IP tonight:

ERA 0.00
FIP 1.08
xFIP 1.97

Looks pretty good to me.

greenfrog - Friday, July 18 2025 @ 08:49 PM EDT (#463853) #

After the Santander injury fiasco, I hope the Blue Jays aren’t making a mistake letting Kirk play through the apparent left hand/wrist discomfort he was experiencing at the plate B5.

San Francisco at Toronto, July 18-20 | 60 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.