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Even though I have confidence in Miguel Batista, I'm half hoping for a rain out so the Jays can take stock and make some mental adjustments. Their confidence must be at a low ebb, and facing a Boston team with a tremendous pitching staff can't be a pleasant thing.
Game 44: Hoping for a Rainout | 103 comments | Create New Account
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_Jim - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 12:45 PM EDT (#63389) #
It's sunny here in Hartford.
:)
_Alex - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 01:11 PM EDT (#63390) #
The Weather Channel calls for partly cloudy skies until about 4, and much rain and thunder after that. There could be worse things for this team right now than a seven-inning game...
_Alex - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 01:25 PM EDT (#63391) #
Today's lineups:

Blue JaysRed Sox
RF Johnson
SS Menechino
CF Wells
1B Delgado
DH Phelps
3B Hinske
2B Hudson
LF Pond
C Cash
CF Damon
2B Bellhorn
1B Ortiz
DH Ramirez
LF Daubach
RF Millar
3B Youkilis
C Mirabelli
SS Crespo

So Gomez sits again, Hinske and Pond get bumped down, Menechino earns a shot at the 2-hole, Pokey's Bunting Misadventures land him on the bench, Kapler sits too, Mirabelli catches Wakefield, Ortiz is back in, and Daubach is in left as Manny DHs. Nothing too terribly interesting.
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 01:55 PM EDT (#63392) #
Hinske's a respectable 5-for-21 off the knuckleballer, with a homer and a couple of doubles. Menechino hasn't seen Wakefield nearly as much, but is 2-for-6 with a walk. I'm not sure why Eric wouldn't hit second and Frank seventh; that would provide more of the L-R mix that Tosca likes.

It's too bad Cat has to miss one of his favourite victims, but maybe Delgado (.327/.433/.592 in 49 career AB off Wakefield) will do some damage for a change.
_Alex from the U - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:02 PM EDT (#63393) #
Ideal start would be 3 singles and Delgado to hit a Grand Slam.....
_Alex - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:03 PM EDT (#63394) #
Comédie en Or!
Rod Black: "A lot of rumours around Batista the he might go to the bullpen, as the closer."
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:15 PM EDT (#63395) #
Yikes! O-Dog, thinking of turning two, muffs an easy one after Batista walked the leadoff man, and Ortiz makes them pay. Nobody out, 1-0 already and I'd be inclined to pitch around Manny.
_Alex - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:18 PM EDT (#63396) #
Manny goes fishing for a 3-2 splitter and Batista catches a break for out #1. Sigh of relief.
_Alex - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:21 PM EDT (#63397) #
Daubach walks on 4 pitches. Miguel's at his expected first-inning walk total of 2. Right about now he should be turning it on.
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:23 PM EDT (#63398) #
Yeah, exactly what we need as a closer -- three walks in the inning, this one forcing in the second run. Sheesh!
_Fawaz K - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:25 PM EDT (#63399) #
Does anyone know if there's something wrong with Batista's warm-up routine?
_David Goodwin - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:25 PM EDT (#63400) #
Should we start praying for rain now?? Maybe Batista is just stalling so the game doesn't make it 5 innings.
_Andrew Edwards - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:28 PM EDT (#63401) #
Nothing would shatter my faith in this organisation quite as quickly as turning Batista into a closer. It doesn't even make any sense.
_Fawaz K - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:31 PM EDT (#63402) #
And they're off! Base hit!
_Fawaz K - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:32 PM EDT (#63403) #
Nevermind...
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:37 PM EDT (#63404) #
33 pitches in the first for Batista, just 14 for strikes, and Crespo helped him by swinging at something out of the zone, then Damon foolishly challenged Cash, or this inning could have been much worse. Thanks, fellas.
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:42 PM EDT (#63405) #
Five walks and counting, bases loaded again despite the two gift outs. I hope Nakamura is ready to work three or four innings...
_Alex - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:43 PM EDT (#63406) #
Why does anyone ever run on Cash?
_Ryan Lind - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:45 PM EDT (#63407) #
Man, I was really hoping we wouldn't need much bulpen today. 58 pitches through 2 for Miguel.
_David Goodwin - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:45 PM EDT (#63408) #
How quickly does word travel around the league regarding a young catcher's ability to nail runners I wonder... With the success Cash is having I really want teams to test his arm. Our pitchers can definitely use all the help they get with extra outs on the basepaths, this inning being a perfect example of that. As Coach said, If not for Damon's CS, this could have been a lot worse (at least one run scored instead of none)
_Chuck Van Den C - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:48 PM EDT (#63409) #
I commented on this in Batista's last start, but his mechanics change from pitch to pitch. And I'm starting to get the sense that Batista has no real idea where his pitches are going. Even on pitches that fool the hitters, Cash often seems fooled as well, as if he were expecting them in a different location.
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:48 PM EDT (#63410) #
Oh, no. Hudson is hurt; looks like the left hammy.
_Ryan Lind - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:52 PM EDT (#63411) #
Argh, I hate the knuckleball. So not what the Jays need right now.

OT: Tom Glavine has a perfect game through 6...
_the shadow - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:54 PM EDT (#63412) #
So now it looks like the Cat and Dawg are out of action, it never rains that it pours
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:54 PM EDT (#63413) #
That 59-mph curve to Cash was awesome. Wakefield lobbed it 10 feet in the air and it dropped in for a called strike. Just like slo-pitch.

Menechino moves to 2B and Gomez is in at SS; if Orlando is seriously injured, that's a tremendous blow to an already reeling club.
_Alex - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:55 PM EDT (#63414) #
Missed the entire top of the third. Gameday has Menechino at second and Gomez at short - have they found out anything about the extent of the injury yet?
_Henry Rodriguez - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 02:56 PM EDT (#63415) #
If Orlando is injured, would we go with Berg in the infield? Is there anyone in Triple A? Or would it be a Menechinio-Gomez connection? If need be, Brent Abernathy or Gookie Dawkins could be taken from Kansas City for the infamous player-to-be-named, I'd imagine.
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:04 PM EDT (#63416) #
Alex, Hudson stumbled out of the box, ran as hard as he could for a few steps, then pulled up lame. Just by the way he grabbed his leg, it looks like a hamstring pull. I'm almost certain he'll be rested tomorrow, with the off-day Tuesday, but it's doubtful that we'll get a detailed report today. There's no point speculating on roster moves until we know if he's DL-bound. Berg's obviously the only IF backup for today and probably tomorrow.
_greenfrog - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:04 PM EDT (#63417) #
I'm baffled by Delgado, Hinske, and Phelps's power and average outages. I mean, we've played almost two months of baseball; the sample size is getting pretty large.

Delgado is hitting .222/.323/.389. (Projected 2004 strikeouts: 147).

Hinske is hitting .213/.287/.331 (Projected strikeouts: 128).

Phelps is hitting .241/.295/.370 (Projected strikeouts: 143).

These are unbelievably bad numbers for a AL team's 4-5-6 batters. I have a suspicion that Delgado's knees and back may not be 100%, but this is a major dropoff in performance. I'm not aware of any comparable hidden injuries to Hinske or Phelps.
_Chuck Van Den C - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:06 PM EDT (#63418) #
Tom Glavine has a perfect game through 6...

Not any more, but the no-hitter is intact through 7.
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#63419) #
Painful to watch. If he doesn't walk them, Batista serves up a cookie. Now 6-zip and 90 mostly bad pitches.
_Jobu - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#63420) #
I am not one to say this often, but i've been beaten into submission. I simply can not watch anymore of this game, this is unbareable. Id rather just drive around aimlessly on this rainy day than see anymore of this. Somebody tell me if The Hentgen puts in some relief and thank goodness this country wont let my buy a gun right now.
_NDG - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#63421) #
Batista is not the guy to take one for the team as he has a 1100 OPS against after pitch 90.
_H-Rod - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#63422) #
Which is worse? Batista's pitching, or his inability to grow facial hair? That beard is criminal.
_Alex from the U - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:11 PM EDT (#63423) #
If the Jays win this it will be a miracle
_The Original Ry - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#63424) #
Glavine's game is being televised on WPIX for anyone who's interested. On ExpressVu that's channel 322.
_NDG - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#63425) #
He's also just struck out 5 of 58 after pitch 75 (not including today).
_David Goodwin - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:14 PM EDT (#63426) #
I was getting ready to write a little comment about how Miguel battled hard and kept things close, in spite of not having command of his pitches, but now this big 6 run deficit after 3 makes this game look like another auto-loss. At least this gives the pen a chance to perform in a non pressure filled situation and maybe regain some of their fragile confidence. Do we second guess Tosca and say Batista was left in there too long? Is there any hope in Hogtown? I agree with Jobu, this is indeed a low-water mark on our season and horribly painful to stick with the Jays right now, but "this too shall pass!"
_Rob - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:15 PM EDT (#63427) #
Well, it's not an official game yet. When does that happen? After the top or bottom of the fifth?
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:15 PM EDT (#63428) #
Aquilino Lopez was already up, so I imagine he's going to get the call.

About a year ago at home, the Jays fell behind Boston 6-0 with Halladay on the hill, then rallied against Wakefield to tie it up and eventually win it. If the "thing" stops moving, you can score runs in bunches. I'm not predicting such a comeback, but youneverknow.
_Jobu - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:17 PM EDT (#63429) #
Oh I'll stick with the Jays this season, just this one game has filled me with too much emotion that I have to just walk-away. First time it's happened to me all season. A night to calm my nerves and I should (hopefully) be geared up to listen to them take on Anahiem on the radio at the big BBQ day.

PS. Give the ball to The Hentgen, I mean look... what else could go wrong? Hell, give the ball to Catalanotto if this keeps up.
_Rob - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:18 PM EDT (#63430) #
Well, there's two of those runs, Coach.
_Alex - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:18 PM EDT (#63431) #
Coach, you beat me to it by a second. This game, right? I was there in the front row... youneverknow!!

Here we go...
_Fawaz K - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#63432) #
Well, at least we know Carlos can still hit the knuckler - now if we could just do something about all the other pitchers...
_the shadow - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#63433) #
Sometimes the low water mark is the turning point, keep the faith
_The Original Ry - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#63434) #
Glavine just gave up a double. No more no-no.
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:21 PM EDT (#63435) #
Sparky HBP, wild pitch, Menechino walk, Wells single, and Delgado smashed a 2-run single up the middle. Just as it started to look really promising with nobody out, Phelps grounded into a double play and Hinske popped up on the next two pitches.
_Jobu - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:21 PM EDT (#63436) #
I hereby give you all permission to point at me and scream "I told you so" if they pull it off. I'd be willing to take a little verbal abuse for a Jay win today. Maybe my walk-away gave them the superstitious jolt they needed.
_David Goodwin - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:25 PM EDT (#63437) #
What a buzz kill that was... Jobu, I don't think anyone here right now is angling to say "I told you so", more that we're all feeling the same way you are, and need something, anything positive to grab onto. That 4th inning rally looked to be the shot in the arm we were hoping for, but as quickly as it started, it ended... argh... Let's see what the pen can do - go A-Lo!
_Alex - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:27 PM EDT (#63438) #
Lopez induces two quick groundouts from Daubers and Millar, then gets Youkilis 0-2... and loses him. Fortunately, Mirabelli grounds out weakly and it doesn't amount to anything.
_David Goodwin - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:29 PM EDT (#63439) #
How long does Tosca let Lopez pitch for? Can he go 3 innings? What artificial pitch count should he be on? Here's hoping he can go 3 innings and keep it under 40 pitches.
_Jobu - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:30 PM EDT (#63440) #
all this, and still no one turns to The Hentgen...
_H-Rod to the ex - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:31 PM EDT (#63441) #
Hentgen is starting Wednesday vs Anaheim.
_Jobu - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:37 PM EDT (#63442) #
Alright, my bad. But maybe if they take a miracle lead into the 9th and they used all their relievers to get there, The Hentgen can close things out for a warmup till Wednesday.
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:38 PM EDT (#63443) #
How long does Tosca let Lopez pitch for?

As long as he's effective. I'd say more like 55-60 pitches, and four innings isn't out of the question. Aquilino's been a spot starter in the past (as recently as this winter) so stamina isn't an issue.
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:41 PM EDT (#63444) #
Very nice job so far; Lopez had nothing to lose and everything to gain from a good effort in this spot. A couple more runs and it's a ball game. That would be something, if the low-water mark and high-water mark of the season was on the same afternoon. :)
_Fawaz K - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#63445) #
Probably too early to say, but if Lopez is getting his act together it could really stabilize that bullpen with 3 guys in Lopez, Frasor and Nakamura pitching well now and Speier, Adams and Ligtenberg eventually coming around to do what they've done in the past.
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:45 PM EDT (#63446) #
Both Tom and Jerry have had trouble with the newest Jay's name. Cheek has inserted an extra "n," calling him "Menenchino" -- he's consistent, but wrong.

C'mon, Phelpsy -- redeem yourself!
_Rob - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:46 PM EDT (#63447) #
...or not.
_Fawaz K - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:46 PM EDT (#63448) #
Phelpsy? Well that didn't work...
_David Goodwin - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:47 PM EDT (#63449) #
Maybe Lopez's solid performance today goes a long way towards defining how the bullpen should look. A-Lo seems comfortable out there, and I agree we should let him go until he starts to falter. Somehow though most of the Jays relievers look good when the game is out of reach either in or against our favour. I wonder what happens if the Jays tie this thing up... does all hell proverbially break loose and the pitcher to come in next implode?
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:47 PM EDT (#63450) #
Fercryinoutloud! Another GIDP to kill another rally. These are the times that try fans' souls.
_Fawaz K - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:49 PM EDT (#63451) #
I really thing Lopez's trouble was more mechanical than anything else. He messed himself up with those new pitches. Last season he showed that he could deal with the 9th inning, so if he's making pitches now I think he may be ready to close games out again.
_Jobu - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:49 PM EDT (#63452) #
When did Phelps and Hinske become the team's comic relief sidekicks?

Cant you just hear Tosca in the dugout after that play with a Super Nintendo Chalmers voice "phe-LLLLLLLLLPPPPPSSSS!!!"
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:55 PM EDT (#63453) #
Super pitch to Ortiz, a fastball tailing away that David rolled over harmlessly to second base. Then he blew a 3-1 heater by Manny, even though he ended up losing him when a slider got away. But Lopez shrugged it off and went right after Daubach, popping him up on a 1-2. So much of this game is confidence, and you can almost see it returning to Aquilino. He's working quickly and aggressively; if there's a silver lining today, that's it.
_Fawaz K - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:55 PM EDT (#63454) #
Pedro vs. Halladay III; some idiot yells 'bunt' at Delgado after consistently GIDP. He knocks it out of the park. Someone start doing that with Phelps and Hinske at the plate.
_Lefty - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:56 PM EDT (#63455) #
Ok I'm chiming in here now.

Personally I don't feel any sense of dispondency at all so far this season. The Jays are simply where they find themselves - struggling. They haven't been in the picture since game one. This team isn't nearly as bad as their record however. Sh*t happens. It baseball. Sometimes you can take all your projections and plain throw them out the window. Your empirical evidence the same. The game is played between the lines and good fortune will again smile on this team.

Last season I was all jacked-up when the Jays were truly in the wild card picture and let it slip away with the trading deadline. You don't get those chances every year. To me that was madness. This is nothing more the under achievement and it will even out to at very least, a mediocre season.

I will praise the small victories and enjoy the season for what it is.
_Fawaz K - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:56 PM EDT (#63456) #
Remember, this is the same bullpen the Jays battered in that 12-6 game - there's still some fun to be had!
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 03:58 PM EDT (#63457) #
That's 44 mostly excellent pitches, with the bottom third coming up. I'd send Lopez back out there and have Valerio ready for Damon.
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 04:01 PM EDT (#63458) #
Nope. It's going to be Nakamura, which is fine with me. Let Aquilino think about this terrific outing for a couple of days and use him in a tighter spot next time.
_Rob - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 04:03 PM EDT (#63459) #
We've decided that Hentgen is closing now, right?
Well...we need a 5th starter, so why not put Lopez in the rotation? :)
_Jobu - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 04:04 PM EDT (#63460) #
Someone start doing that with Phelps and Hinske

I can do more than just yell bunt, might as well make it entertaing

"PHELLLLLLLPS!"
"Super Intendant Tosca, didnt expect to see you here!"
"I'm always here! Why did you just bunt with the bases loaded?"
"I wasn't bunting sir, I was... just... doing some isometric calf stretchs at the plate"
"Well then why did you look to Butterfield and shout 'I'm going to bunt!' ?"
"I have a cold..."
"You have a cold?"
"Yes, it makes swing-away sound like bunt"
"But the syllables dont even match up"
"It's an Albany expression sir"
"Ah, I see. Very well, carry on"
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 04:08 PM EDT (#63461) #
Complete-game shutout for Cory Lidle today, six shutout innings for Doug Davis, though his bullpen couldn't hold the lead. Next thing you know, Tanyon Sturtze will be in the Yankees rotation, spinning zeroes.
_David Goodwin - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 04:09 PM EDT (#63462) #
Priceless Jobu! Almost all slices of life can be explained with Simpsons references, and of course add levity to otherwise hopeless ones.
_the shadow - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 04:10 PM EDT (#63463) #
Jobu, when is the unveiling of "The Hentgen" poster
_Lefty - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 04:14 PM EDT (#63464) #
Whoa, what a rifle shot from Wells to Cash from centre field. Just a pity Cash could hold on. Nice play by Vernon though.
_the shadow - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 04:15 PM EDT (#63465) #
Great throw by Wells
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 04:16 PM EDT (#63466) #
Yeah, that was a very good throw, but it short-hopped. Nakamura walked the first two guys he faced -- the #7 and #8 hitters -- so the damage could have been worse.
_Jobu - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 04:18 PM EDT (#63467) #
the unveiling of the "Hentgen for closer" poster is this monday's game, the game I wont be able to attend. Lousy previous commitments...

When you unveil the poster at 7:05 pm, look to the moon (or rafters if the dome is closed) and know that somewhere... I too am looking at the moon with my Pat Hentgen "sportshead" collectible in hand, and in that brief moment, we will be together, united by love for...

THE HENTGEN
_Fawaz K - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 04:19 PM EDT (#63468) #
Well, I guess we can put that order for Cash's Gold Glove on hold for a while. He seems to struggle with his positioning on plays at the plate and keeps finding funny hops.
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 04:25 PM EDT (#63469) #
Cash isn't going to win a Gold Glove as a rookie in the same league as Pudge, even if he throws out 50 baserunners. I thought he played that one OK; he would have had to come up the line too far to make the tag in order to catch it on the fly, so he left himself a tough hop and just couldn't come up with it. It's (another) one of those days...
_SNAKE - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 04:29 PM EDT (#63470) #
ONE SOLUTION TO ALL THE JAYS PROBLEMS:

BRING BACK JIM FREGOSI. NOW THAT GUY WAS INTENSE.
_Niles - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#63471) #
At some point the Jays have either got to send Phelps down or move him. At least Hinske has had a full season of success at the ML Level and actually plays a position.
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 04:34 PM EDT (#63472) #
Frasor, in to get some work, retired Ortiz on a fly ball, was ahead of Manny 0-2 before getting an easy 6-3 groundout, and froze Daubach for strike three with the curve. Sooner or later, they will hand him a lead in the ninth and we'll see if he can handle the pressure.
_David Goodwin - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 04:36 PM EDT (#63473) #
It's funny, last year I grew increasingly frustrated with the Jays handling of Phelps - namely not letting him play every day and work through his funks. It irked me that the Jays would start two catchers (with either Crash or Wilson as DH) and sit Phelps. Now I am thinking they may have given him too much rope this season and he needs some off days. With the current injury situation on the roster, I highly doubt Phelps will sit in the near future, and rightly so. But to reiterate Niles' feelings, Phelps really hasn't done a lot to justify being our DH and number 5 hitter, and makes it hard to conceive of him as our every day 1B next year.
_the shadow - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 04:38 PM EDT (#63474) #
At least some positives in todays melt down, Lopez and Frasor looked good, Delgado couple of hits
_greenfrog - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 04:43 PM EDT (#63475) #
The Jays need to see Phelps over a full season. He hasn't done much this year, but at the moment they don't really have another option at DH. Phelps did have a stellar rookie half-season, in which he hit over .300 with solid power.

To my untrained eye, it looks as though Phelps's swing is too long. When I watch him bat, I'm reminded of EPSN's preseason player analysis: "Keeping his swing tight and compact makes Phelps very dangerous, a power threat with 100-RBI potential. When overswinging, though, he is prone to the strikeout, which he recorded once in every 3.44 at-bats in 2003."
_Rob - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 04:45 PM EDT (#63476) #
"Dave Berg hit for Simon Pond."

Not what you want to see on Sportsline in the ninth inning.
_Niles - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 04:58 PM EDT (#63477) #
"Keeping his swing tight and compact makes Phelps very dangerous, a power threat with 100-RBI potential. When overswinging, though, he is prone to the strikeout, which he recorded once in every 3.44 at-bats in 2003."

Well, maybe he needs some AAA time to get that swing more compact if he has that sort of potential. Especially, if he's going to be the everyday 1B next year. However, with Phelps and Hinske both struggling, and the prospects in the minors not doing much better, I think signing Delgado is becoming more and more vital.
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 05:00 PM EDT (#63478) #
Wilner just pointed out that this was the first time since last Saturday that the Jays' starter left the game trailing. That's usually good enough to play .500 ball or better, but it coincided with this week's unfortunate bullpen meltdown. It doesn't get any easier for the pitching staff, as another first-place club comes to town, followed by the surprising Rangers.

To my untrained eye, it looks as though Phelps's swing is too long.

Well, it's apparently too long to be effective against a knuckleball. He can still turn around just about any fastball with it.
_Niles - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 05:02 PM EDT (#63479) #
He can still turn around just about any fastball with it.


Is his problem laying off breaking balls?
_Fawaz K - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 05:03 PM EDT (#63480) #
If either Frasor or Lopez can be trusted with the 9th - and it looks like Lopez is getting there - this bullpen could become exponentially better than its performance thus far has indicated. And if Kershner can get the kind of results he did last season...sigh...
_Chuck Van Den C - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 05:04 PM EDT (#63481) #
At some point the Jays have either got to send Phelps down or move him.

Given that the Jays aren't going anywhere this year and Phelps isn't stealing AB from a serious potential alternative, I say stick it out with Phelps, sitting him down once once a week and dropping him to a lower spot in the batting order.

If his whole year stinks, I'd say his future is in jeopardy regardless of whether Delgado returns or not. This is his age 26 season so if he follows the typical development growth pattern, there's not a lot of growth left in him before he reaches his peak years (2005 and 2006).

The lack of serious alternatives will buy Hinske a lot more rope as well. Like Phelps, though, this is his age 26 season and what we're supposed to be witnessing is Hinske showing signs of growth before his imminent peak. It would be a shame if his age 24 season represented the apex of his abilities.
_Fawaz K - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 05:09 PM EDT (#63482) #
I do think Phelps may end up platooning at some point this season - either with the Cat or Simon Pond.
_greenfrog - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 05:09 PM EDT (#63483) #
At the moment, there isn't much point in worrying about signing Delgado. I don't think JP will enter contract negotiations with him until after the season. At that point management will take a hard look at his 2004 performance, health, the market (including alternative 1B options), and the state of the team as a whole. Personally, I think it would be crazy to extend his contract right now.
Coach - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 05:11 PM EDT (#63484) #
How about that game in Minnesota? The Twins, up 6-3 with Santana on the mound, gave up 14 unanswered runs in the next three innings. By taking three of four in the Dome, the White Sox are about to move into a first-place tie.

Is (Phelps') problem laying off breaking balls?

Yes. He also swings through (over) a lot of changeups. Always has.
_Niles - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 05:17 PM EDT (#63485) #
The most troubling thing for me about Phelps performance is his decline in power.

YR SLG%
'02 .562
'03 .470
'04 .370

With that swing of his, and the strike outs it brings, those power numbers are unacceptable.
_Chuck Van Den C - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 05:19 PM EDT (#63486) #
I think it would be crazy to extend his contract right now.

Definitely, for both Delgado and Ricciardi.

Delgado's first quarter of 2004 is negating any leverage his 2003 season would have afforded him. And Ricciardi will want to see some evidence, come season's end, that Delgado warrants a 3-year $30M deal.

I can't imagine that either party would approach the other until the off-season.
_greenfrog - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 05:25 PM EDT (#63487) #
Re Phelps: the problem is that success at the major-league level requires being able to hit all kinds of pitches. If you can't hit the off-speed stuff, pitchers will figure it out. Fastballs also become harder to hit when you're having to adjust to a new diet of breaking balls and changeups (and knucklers).

The irony is that Phelps would probably get more extra-base hits if he didn't take such mighty swings.
_Hayden - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 07:23 PM EDT (#63488) #
"And Ricciardi will want to see some evidence, come season's end, that Delgado warrants a 3-year $30M deal."

Ricciardi just saw a younger (by 3 1/2 years) and arguably better (see below) hitter sign for $12.5 million for two years so anything approaching $30 million for three years for Delgado would be insane.

Ortiz OPS last season: .961
Delgado OPS last season: 1.007

Ortiz OPS this season: .899
Delgado OPS this season: .716
_Niles - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 08:58 PM EDT (#63489) #
I think it's premature to suggest that Ortiz is a better hitter than Delgado and I think OPS can be misleading here given that Carlos plays virtually ever game while Ortiz often sits against lefties.
_Niles - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 09:06 PM EDT (#63490) #
Over the last 3 years:

Delgado OPS vs. Left: .778

Ortiz OPS vs. Left: .678
_Hayden - Sunday, May 23 2004 @ 11:43 PM EDT (#63491) #
I did say arguably a better hitter (I will also point out here that over the 2002-03 seasons Fenway Park was the toughest park in the American League for lefthanded batters to homer in. SkyDome was, of course, one of the easiest). Delgado may be slightly better but he is 3 1/2 years older and if the market for a very good hitting first baseman in his prime is $12.5 million for two years then the market for Delgado should not be much more than that. Delgado is 32 in June and I just can't see anyone giving him $30 million for three years. Another factor is that neither the Red Sox nor Yankees will likely be in on the bidding. However, if he stays in the AL, I'd say Seattle (as Olerud's replacement) is the likely destination and since the Mariners' GM is not very bright when it comes to signing free agents (see signings of Aurilia, Ibanez and Spiezio for example), Delgado could luck out contractually.
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