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News filtered down today that promising starting pitcher Justin Miller is going on the disabled list with a right hamstring injury. And now, staff ace Roy Halladay has been scratched from tonight's start due to soreness. Let's hope he can go tomorrow, or barring that, that Doc doesn't need a trip to the DL himself.

Justin Speier and Chris Woodward have begun their rehab assignments in Dundedin, so perhaps we've seen the worst as far as injuries go.

Jesse Harper was designated for assignment, but chances are good he'll clear waivers. Could this be a prelude to putting David Bush onto the 40-man roster and bringing him up to help out the hobbled pitching staff?
Game 52: The Injuries Continue | 141 comments | Create New Account
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_Ron - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:30 PM EDT (#23238) #
So is Kershner comfirmed to be the starter?

I can't see him going any longer than 3 innings.

What a bad day to get the gambling juices ....... why Doc why????
_The Original Ry - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:32 PM EDT (#23239) #
Harper was designated to make room for Josh Towers, who will take Miller's place. Tom Cheek just said that Miller has a slight tear in his hamstring.

When it rains, it pours...
robertdudek - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:32 PM EDT (#23240) #
Kershner is confirmed as the starter. Or as J.P. might say - Charlie Wholestaff is going tonight.
Pistol - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:32 PM EDT (#23241) #
Who would be a candidate to get called up if not Bush? Towers?

What a bad day to get the gambling juices ....... why Doc why????

Bets are cancelled if the scheduled starter doesn't go.
_Alex - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:33 PM EDT (#23242) #
Kersh is starting. Fo' sheezy.

And here is one weird lineup.

Blue JaysMariners
2B Menechino
3B Hinske
LF Johnson
CF Wells
C Zaun
1B Phelps
DH Pond
RF Rios
SS Gomez
RF Ichiro
CF Winn
DH Martinez
LF Ibanez
2B Boone
SS Aurilia
1B Olerud
3B Cabrera
C Borders


The most striking changes are Menechino sliding up, Johnson batting third and Hinske going up to the 2-hole. Given the unbelievable rash of injuries and Phelps' struggles, I suppose it's hard to argue with playing around with the lineup like this.
_Alex - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:34 PM EDT (#23243) #
Kersh is starting. Fo' sheezy.

And here is one weird lineup.

Blue JaysMariners
2B Menechino
3B Hinske
LF Johnson
CF Wells
C Zaun
1B Phelps
DH Pond
RF Rios
SS Gomez
RF Ichiro
CF Winn
DH Martinez
LF Ibanez
2B Boone
SS Aurilia
1B Olerud
3B Cabrera
C Borders


The most striking changes are Menechino sliding up, Johnson batting third and Hinske going up to the 2-hole. Given the unbelievable rash of injuries and Phelps' struggles, I guess it's hard to argue with playing around with the lineup like this.
_Ryan Day - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:35 PM EDT (#23244) #
Just wait until Tosca pulls Kershner in the first inning when a right-handed hitter comes up.
robertdudek - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:36 PM EDT (#23245) #
Towers has been called up. So for now the 40-man is full.
_Ron - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:37 PM EDT (#23246) #
"Bets are cancelled if the scheduled starter doesn't go."

Not on my tickets............

Let's gets some positive energy!!! Kershner will have the game of his life and Phelps and Hinske will play like all-stars tonight!!!
_Alex - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:41 PM EDT (#23247) #
Positivity: We're facing a guy who is averaging 4.59 innings per start this year. GO JAYS.

Tosca, on the Fan, says he thinks VDLS will go a couple innings today once Kersh tires, and if Kersh and VDLS can get him to the 7th he's going to handle his pen like he usually does.
_Ron - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:44 PM EDT (#23248) #
VDLS to go a few innings ... NOOOOOOOOO
_Jordan - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:44 PM EDT (#23249) #
LF Johnson
CF Wells
C Zaun


WAMCO that ain't.

What crummy timing for all these injuries, just when the team was legitimately finding its feet. This is going be The Year of Adversity, apparently.

I have my fingers crossed that Harper makes it through waivers. The Jays won this gamble once before with Justin Miller; I sincerely hope lightning strikes twice. And I even more sincerely hope that Halladay did nothing more than sleep on his arm badly.

BTW, Hinske should stay in the two-hole for the balance of the season.
_Fawaz K - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#23250) #
I'm absolutely sick to my stomach. Not only is everybody injured, it's happening just as they start playing well! Even Dave freakin' Berg had a two-hit game before going down! I've been calling for Tosca's head for a while, but maybe it's the training staff that needs to be worried...Hopefully it isn't serious with Doc, but every time they suggest the guy should be back in a couple of days (Woodward, Hudson) they land up on the DL.
Mike Green - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#23251) #
Kershner started in Triple A in 02. I've always been curious how he would do in the role in the Show, and I guess we're about to find out. Facing the Mariners in Safeco is a good context for him.

But, boy, when it rains, it really pours.
_Fawaz K - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:47 PM EDT (#23252) #
This is beyond rain; it's divine urination.
_Alex - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:48 PM EDT (#23253) #
BTW, Hinske should stay in the two-hole for the balance of the season.

I like Eric in the 2-hole, but... even if/when the Cat comes back?
_JohnnyS99 - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:49 PM EDT (#23254) #
Prelude to David Bush? David Bush needs to have consistent sucesss at Syracuse before bieng called up.
_Sneeps - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:50 PM EDT (#23255) #
LOL @ Divine Urination!
_Kieran - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:50 PM EDT (#23256) #
This rash of injuries is absolutely crazy. They are down 2 SPs, 1 RP, 2 Cs, 1 1B, 1 2B, 1 SS, 1 LF - included in the bunch is the team's best hitter & starter. Not to mention the organization's #1 pitching prospect (McGowan) and catcher (Quiroz).

That said, I hope at the end of the year the poor season is not blamed on the infirmary, as the team has played equally well, if not arguably better, since all the injuries started.

While I am in no rush to see the bullpen guys starting, I have always thought it to make the game a little more interesting when it happens. It's fun to see how long these guys can go, and even better, it might teach Tosca a thing or two about letting his relievers pitch a little.
_Chris B. - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:52 PM EDT (#23257) #
J.P. must have angered the baseball gods in some manner. Perhaps his unnatural obsession with THE WALK & .OBP brought this calamity to the great north. LOLLLLLLLL
_NDG - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:52 PM EDT (#23258) #
No worries folks,

I've decided to start Meche tonight on my BBFL team. This should ensure a Blue Jay victory as Meche is usually able to kill my teams hopes of winning any rate categories.

I just hope you guys remember who's taking one for the team here!
_Ryan Lind - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:53 PM EDT (#23259) #
Man, we're like the LA Kings of baseball.
_Ron - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:53 PM EDT (#23260) #
Sportsnet just reported Doc is going to pitch on Sunday vs. the A's.
_Chris B. - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:54 PM EDT (#23261) #
On paper, Meche looks like the savior for the R.I.S.P. blues.
_Alex - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:54 PM EDT (#23262) #
So they're simply skipping him and it's Lilly, Batista, presumably-Towers and Hentgen up to that point? That's not too bad...
_Kieran - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:56 PM EDT (#23263) #
Re: Sportsnet reporting Halladay pitching Sunday...

I wouldn't regard this report with any value...If he's not feeling up to pitching tonight, how can anyone know *at this point* with any certainty that he will be well on Sunday?
_Chris B. - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:57 PM EDT (#23264) #
"And now, lets give a big round of applause to the 2004 edition of your AAA Toronto Blue Jays."

I will say I am glad to see Reed in the three slot. He is as hot as a pistol.
_Loveshack - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:57 PM EDT (#23265) #
Well at that's something encouraging

From the guys on the FAN, Kershner pitched more than 2 innings on 10 occaisions last year and in one game went 4 2/3 scoreless innings (with 1 hit) against the Yankees.
_Jordan - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:57 PM EDT (#23266) #
I like Eric in the 2-hole, but... even if/when the Cat comes back?

Alex, I think so, and for these admittedly not-rock-solid reasons:

* He had his best success there in his rookie season; he's been in the 5th and 6th spots since then and, although there were other factors at play, he's never really prospered. There's a lot to be said for hitting in the fastball hole. And his baserunning ability works better in tandem with Sparky and Vernon.

* He and Cat will, all things being equal, produce the same sort of OBP, but Cat's will be more heavily weighted with base hits, which is what you need in the 6th spot -- that's an RBI hole, and walks are a little less valuable there than hits.

* Cat will be traded sooner rather than later (assuming the whole damn 25-man roster doesn't end up in the training room), and you might as well get Hinske ensconced there now. Also, this is borderline, but more RBIs for Cat might make him more attractive to the less discerning buyers out there.

I'll also admit that at this point, I would try pretty much anything to shake Hinske out of whatever he's stuck in.
_Ron - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 09:59 PM EDT (#23267) #
Doc felt some soreness during the pregame warmup. It wasn't anything major but the Jays are just playing it safe, resting him until Sunday.

Going into the season I worried about Doc's health, he's a high risk for injury due to the amount of pitches he has thrown the past 2 seasons.
_Ryan Lind - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:08 PM EDT (#23268) #
Man, if someone had told me a month ago that Frank Menechino would be leading off for the Blue Jays....

Oh well, good for him anyways. Does anyone have any updates on ... anyone?
_Kieran - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:08 PM EDT (#23269) #
Has Doc thrown a lot of pitches in the past few years? Or just innings? His overall effectivenss and lack of BB surrendered should keep his pitch counts down.

According to ESPN.com, his P/GS the past three years are:

2002 102.9
2003 100.8
2004 108.3

Points of comparison:

Curt Schilling (about 106), K. Wood (about 110), M. Prior (110).

Interesting to note that the latter two are not all that off, given the criticism Dusty Baker takes for high pitch counts.
_Matthew E - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:11 PM EDT (#23270) #
The disabled list is finite, right? Aren't there limits as to how many of your guys you can have disabled at once? The Jays have got to be getting close.
_Tassle - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:11 PM EDT (#23271) #
Doc was really low on the PAP list considering how many innings he pitched, so I doubt he's really being ridden too hard. The man is a horse.
_Loveshack - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:12 PM EDT (#23272) #
Looks like something might be very wrong with Meche. He can't seem to hit anywhere near the plate.
_Loveshack - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:15 PM EDT (#23273) #
Nice little cushion for Kershner to start with.

RBI single Sparky.
_Spicol - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:19 PM EDT (#23274) #
The disabled list is finite, right? Aren't there limits as to how many of your guys you can have disabled at once?

I've never heard of a limit. It would be counter-productive to have one...if you make players play hurt, they'll only injure themselves worse.
_Jordan - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:20 PM EDT (#23275) #
We're still learning about pitch counts and how many pitches a guy should throw. But most injuries apparently occur when a pitcher is tired and still throwing -- something that could, depending on the pitcher, happen on his 80th, 100th or 130th pitch, in April, July or October. There hasn't been any indication so far that Halladay -- who takes better care of himself than any pitcher outside Roger Clemens -- has been in that position, and I don't think he will be. Very few pitchers go through their careers without some kind of arm issues, but right now, I think Doc and the Jays have done pretty much everything they can in that regard.
_Lefty - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:26 PM EDT (#23276) #
I even more sincerely hope that Halladay did nothing more than sleep on his arm badly

Jordon I think your on to something here. Roy had his best start of the season last week against the Angels. He would have been doing his long tossing and the rest of his routine between starts.

If something serious was wrong he should have noticed it before tonite. If he had, there is no doubt in my mind that he would have mentioned this to the Trainers and Manager. This news caught everyone by suprise.

With the seriousness of the message on injury silence delivered by JP I am absolutely certain Doc would have come clean so to speak. He is probably the leader of this club along with Delgado. Doc would not have gone against policy and stayed quite only to spring the news a couple hrs. before his start. No way.

Thats my synopsis and I'm sticking to it until I hear otherwise.

With respect to Miller. The team knew he had the hammy problem long before it became public. I think probably they knew two weeks before we knew. That explains him not going deep into his last two starts. He has my repect for gutting it out. Same story with Delgado injured long before he sat. Maybe there is something to the suggestion above about having a serious look at the Jays training staff. What ever happened to Tommy Craig?
_Mike Forbes - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:27 PM EDT (#23277) #
....I Think I've Got The Josh Phelps Blues.... Remind Me Again Why He's Playing In The Majors?
_braden - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:29 PM EDT (#23278) #
Well this isn't looking too promising.............
_The Original Ry - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:33 PM EDT (#23279) #
What ever happened to Tommy Craig?

He's currently the trainer in Short-A Auburn.
_Moffatt - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:44 PM EDT (#23280) #
Ugh.. just got home and saw the lineup. We've got:

4 players recently up from AAA (Pond, Rios, Zaun, Frankie M)
A backup (Gomez)
A guy a lot of people thought should be a backup (Reed)
Two underachievers (Hinske, Phelps)
And *one* legitimate star player (Wells).

If that isn't an expansion level lineup, I don't know what is. The Jays are really getting killed by injuries. I haven't even discussed the pitching situation.
_Lefty - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:44 PM EDT (#23281) #
What ever happened to Tommy Craig?

He's currently the trainer in Short-A Auburn.


Wow, T.O.R., now another question. Why?
_Loveshack - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:45 PM EDT (#23282) #
Crikey. 2nd Inning 1 Out and Meche is up to 50 pitches already.

Bases Loaded for Hinske.
_Harry Heatherin - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:46 PM EDT (#23283) #
Here's where having Hinske bat in the 2-hole pays off: bases loaded, one out - one of his patented doubles to right center is my call
_Jordan - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:47 PM EDT (#23284) #
I think we've looked at training staff issues before ... part of the injury problems last year arose from players not reporting their pains, something the trainers can't do much about. The club came down hard on that kind of behaviour, though, and I agree with Lefty that we won't see much of that going forward.

I'm not Will Carroll, nor do I play him on TV, but I think a lot of the Jays' injury problems so far are just bad luck. Delgado's rib problem is pretty freakish, especially when we were all concerned with his knee. Myers tried to stop too quickly and caught his foot on artificial turf. Hamstring problems are often related to stretching, but they're also pretty common all throughout baseball. Most of the team's injuries are nagging things that happen every season; the frustrating part is that they all seem to be happening at the same time. At this point, I'm most inclined to ascribe it to bad karma rather than anything else. Like I said earlier, the Year of Adversity.
_Harry Heatherin - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:50 PM EDT (#23285) #
Hinkse Ks on a fastball running from way inside to just a little inside on him - I don't believe it's a strike, but the ump called the same pitch twice the same way, so at least he's consistent.
_Ryan Lind - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:54 PM EDT (#23286) #
Nice at bat from Reed!

Man it's nice to at least get one run after loading the bases.
_Loveshack - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:55 PM EDT (#23287) #
Nice at bat by Reed.

Meche up to 68 pitches with 2 out in the 2nd inning.
_Tassle - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:56 PM EDT (#23288) #
I'm feeeeeeeling a Wells grand slam
_Tassle - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:57 PM EDT (#23289) #
Guess not.
Ugly swing
_Ryan Lind - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:58 PM EDT (#23290) #
Well, at least they got one from from the loaded bases. It's progress.
_Loveshack - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 10:59 PM EDT (#23291) #
Wells K's with the bases loaded. bah!

The Funny thing is that the Mariners may have to go to their bullpen before the Jays do. I wonder what the record is for fastest to reach 100 pitches?
_Ryan Lind - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:00 PM EDT (#23293) #
This game has been on for an hour and we're in the bottom of the second...
_Ron - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:03 PM EDT (#23294) #
Meche tosses 73 pitches in only innings yet the Jays only have 2 runs.......

I believe somebody mentioned here the Jays are dead last when it comes to hitting with RISP
_R Billie - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:03 PM EDT (#23295) #
Did anyone have any idea Meche could throw that hard? 97? One pitch reading 99? Is the gun just loopy or is this why Meche has little control?
_Lefty - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:04 PM EDT (#23296) #
It after 11 PM back east now eh? You guys are going to need large Tim's tomorrow.
robertdudek - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:05 PM EDT (#23297) #
Remember when Vernon Wells could hit? Boy, that was really great.

Yes. 24 hours ago.
robertdudek - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:06 PM EDT (#23298) #
I think the 99 was a glitch. But I knew he could throw 95-96.
_Lefty - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:07 PM EDT (#23299) #
Borders flys out. I was having nightmare or maybe dream there Borders hits a homer and drives in himself and Olerud. Back to my senses now. It is great to see those guys though, particularly our World Series MVP.
_Ron - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:08 PM EDT (#23300) #
Pat Borders is a warrior. He's the only guy alive with a autographed copy of the bible!
_Harry Heatherin - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:08 PM EDT (#23301) #
Yep - a large Tim's ... and a fire extinguisher. Perhaps an enema too.

Remember when the Jays used to win World Series'? Because I do, and it helps to do it. Peace and love - and just WAIT for 2005. You betcha.
_Loveshack - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:08 PM EDT (#23302) #
Meche is done.

Clint Nageotte makes his major league debut.
_Nolan - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:09 PM EDT (#23303) #
Hey guys, just turned off the tv to try and write an essay and missed Rios' hit...was it a liner, grounder, bloop? Really excited that he's playing and just hope he does well.
_Ron - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:11 PM EDT (#23304) #
Crazy 9th inning for the Braves. They were down 6-3 with 2 outs and Green jacks a 3 run homer, and then Drew steps up to the plate and on the first pitch he went yard and the Braves won.
Craig B - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:14 PM EDT (#23305) #
Nolan, it was a very solid opposite-field double down the line. A smash over the bag, essentially.
_Ryan Lind - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:16 PM EDT (#23306) #
And yet, none of the runs charged to Biddle were earned...

Man, I just don't understand the ER rule sometim...ever.
_Nolan - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:19 PM EDT (#23307) #
Thanks Craig B.
_The Original Ry - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:19 PM EDT (#23308) #
Re: Tommy Craig's reassignment
Wow, T.O.R., now another question. Why?

Wouldn't know. He's been in the minors with the Jays ever since he was let go as the head trainer after the 1999 season. In the time since, the Jays have had two head trainers and (IIRC) three assistant trainers.

On a semi-related note, Tommy Craig co-hosted a Life Network TV show in the mid-1990's with an excessively perky woman. During my channel surfing back in those days (I wouldn't be caught dead watching the Life Network for any length of time) Duane Ward was on the show demonstrating some of the exercises he was using during his rehab. Other Jays players made the occasional appearance as well.

I just suddenly remembered this show for some reason, and now I have no idea why I even bothered to bring it up. Carry on with your normal in-game discussions.
_Matthew E - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:20 PM EDT (#23309) #
I harbour a faint and secret hope that Kershner will take an opportunity like this and eventually become a real starting pitcher. I think it's been in my mind ever since the Jays first picked him up.
_Lefty - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:23 PM EDT (#23310) #
Meche at least to me is perplexing. He missed just about two seasons after coming over in the Big unit deal and came back slowly. Last season he was pretty dominant at least until mid season then it all started to fall apart. I remember a start against the Jay and they couldn't touch him in the first couple innings. He was using his heat and curve. Then all of sudden the bottom came out and the Jays quickly scored about five on him before the fourth was complete. The rest of his 03 season was crap. This year I figured him to have a great season after a comeback year was under his belt. Confidence and control seems to be his problem cuz he certainly has stuff.

Now he's gotta be in danger of loosing his job to Nageotte. Go figure.
_Matthew E - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:28 PM EDT (#23311) #
Meche at least to me is perplexing.

Maybe he's still getting over the death of his best friend Enkidu.
_Nolan - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:28 PM EDT (#23312) #
Not trying to be a nit-picker but Meche wasn't in the Johnson trade, IIRC it was Johnson for Carlos Guillen, Freddy Garcia and John Halama (sp?). Meche has always been in the Mariner's system I believe.
_Lefty - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:35 PM EDT (#23313) #
Nolan your right, Halama. Meche was drafted by Seattle in the first round 22nd overall in 1996. Thanks.
_Ron - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:35 PM EDT (#23314) #
Meche might be dealt. The M's have told the other clubs they'll listen to all offers.

The person drawing the most intereest isn't Garica but Pinero.
_Matthew E - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:36 PM EDT (#23315) #
Anybody know what the record is for 'most runs scored in a game via bases-loaded walks'?
_Lefty - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:40 PM EDT (#23316) #
If i'm the Mariners I'm not dealing Pinero or Franklin. They sure won't get much for Meche right now, likewise Freddy.
_Ryan Lind - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:41 PM EDT (#23317) #
I know the Yankees got four earlier this season, against guess who?

The Mariners, of course.
_Nolan - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:43 PM EDT (#23318) #
Nice job Alexis, second hit of the day and second run scored as well. His .263 BA sure looks better in the boxsocore than his pregame sub-.200 average did. Plus he now has a .370 OBP...

p.s. I keep hearing about "sample-size" on this site...could that apply here? Nah....
_StatsBoy666 - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:47 PM EDT (#23319) #
I think we may have sold the bill of goods re: Rios being a good fielder. Seems that everything that the Ricciardi regime lays on us needs to be discounted slightly.
_Lefty - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:48 PM EDT (#23320) #
I sure agree with Tosca on this pitching decision pulling Kershner with the bags full and Edgar to the plate. Jason did an excellent job tonite. A-Lo coming in. Hope he can nail the third out for the starter.
_Ron - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:48 PM EDT (#23321) #
Well Keshner is done. I'd give his performance a C. Couldn't make it to the 4 inning mark, has 3 ER's charged against him, and left the bases juiced for Lopez

Although Hinske has to make that play on a weak hit by Ichiro.
_Lefty - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:49 PM EDT (#23322) #
clap, clap, clap
_Ron - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:52 PM EDT (#23323) #
Actually when JP said Rios was good on the field he wasn't lieing. During the off-season I was reading Gammons column and he had two unnamed scouts that told him Rios defence is so good he might push Wells to RF eventually.
_StatsBoy666 - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:53 PM EDT (#23324) #
And we are going to see this when?
_Jobu - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:53 PM EDT (#23325) #
And we are going to see this when?

my crystal ball tells me..... Thursday.
_StatsBoy666 - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:55 PM EDT (#23326) #
Of which month or year?
_Jobu - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:57 PM EDT (#23327) #
Im getting this year....

and....

it looks like July.
_Cheeksta - Tuesday, June 01 2004 @ 11:59 PM EDT (#23328) #
What a difference listening to the analysis provided by Tom Candiotti and what we normally get from John Cerutti. I don't think science has created a scale to measure how much better Candy is than the sub-.500 left-hander.
_Cristian - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 12:00 AM EDT (#23329) #
I won't see it Thursday. Apparently the Flames will have another press conference and will preempt the Jays game for those of us cursed with Sportsnet West.
_Nolan - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 12:01 AM EDT (#23330) #
Even if Rios defence has been a bit shaky so far, I'd still MUCH rather have him out there learning and getting better than having a Dave Berg out there. I am sure Dave is a great guy, but has been irritating to watch him play this year,
_StatsBoy666 - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 12:04 AM EDT (#23331) #
There's no denying that Rios is leaps and bounds better than Berg, but let's not give him a Gold Glove quite yet...
_Jobu - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 12:05 AM EDT (#23332) #
Well, at least not until Thursday July 1st.
_Nolan - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 12:06 AM EDT (#23333) #
Don't worry, I haven't even started etching his name on the plaque/metal glove/trophy/whatever you get for a Gold Glove yet.

Let's see if he can survive in the majors and hold onto a regualr job first
_Mike in CT - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 12:09 AM EDT (#23334) #
It feels like the Jays are snake-bit this season. Whatever could go wrong has gone wrong.
_braden - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 12:09 AM EDT (#23335) #
remember when Vernon could hit?

2-run bomb!
_Ron - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 12:09 AM EDT (#23336) #
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?????????
robertdudek - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 12:09 AM EDT (#23337) #
As good as the O-Dog is and as smooth as Adam Kennedy is, Bret Boone is still the best defensive 2B in the AL. That play he almost made off Johnson scorcher was amazing.

Oh and it's a pity Vernon's forgotten how to hit ;-)
_Lefty - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 12:10 AM EDT (#23338) #
Wells goes yard as JKCL shoulders droop just a little.
_Chris B. - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 12:10 AM EDT (#23339) #
I just got a crazy idea.

What if Tosca kept Johnson in the three hole, and let Wells drop to 5 with Delgado to cleanup????????? Nuts huh???
_Tassle - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 12:20 AM EDT (#23340) #
What if Tosca kept Johnson in the three hole, and let Wells drop to 5 with Delgado to cleanup????????? Nuts huh???
Gosh, I like it. Johnson is looking more and more like a legit ML regular everyday, and has he ever been raking lately. It's not like Phelps deserves to be in WAMCO 2004. I wish I could say this on an 0-for-5 day so it would carry more weight, but the man now has 586 at-bats of near .800 OPS hitting. Obviously the platoon splits are a concern but he's a good hitter, a good fielder, why can't he be part of the long term plans? Esp. since he is dirt cheap for the next few years.
_Chris B. - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 12:22 AM EDT (#23341) #
Colon would make El Artista proud tonight. 4 innings of work, 100 plus pitches.
_R Billie - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 12:29 AM EDT (#23342) #
Hey I said based on spring training that Rios was far from ready to displace Wells. A lot of scouts seem impressed by his arm and raw speed but his instincts in the field are not great.
robertdudek - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 12:38 AM EDT (#23343) #
Like anything else, you've got to learn how to play the outfield. Rios is still learning. I guarantee that in 3 months he'll be getting better jumps on balls than he is now.
_Sneeps - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 12:41 AM EDT (#23344) #
I've seen reports on Rios that he's an all-star calibre defender in the field. I think we are just seeing a bit of nervousness from young Alex out there.
robertdudek - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 12:52 AM EDT (#23345) #
Seattle pitchers have thrown 188 pitches in 8 innings tonight.
_My Names not Ry - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 12:55 AM EDT (#23346) #
With all the talk of the DL, lets not forget, also on the 40 man DL is Quiroz and MCgowan, there is a limit on how many 60 Day DL guys you can have, but not 15 day.
_Sneeps - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 01:02 AM EDT (#23347) #
Speaking of Quiroz, any word on how he's coming along?
_StatsBoy666 - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 01:03 AM EDT (#23348) #
It Tosca every expects Frasor to be a big time closer than he can't be more than a 1-inning guy. There was no reason to hook Ligtenberg. You here me, J.P.?
_R Billie - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 01:10 AM EDT (#23349) #
I agree there was little reason to hook Ligtenberg. But I don't agree closers should be limited to one inning. If they're your best pitchers then they should be able to go more than an inning.
_StatsBoy666 - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 01:12 AM EDT (#23350) #
Not closers, this closer. Frasor is not big enough or durable enough.
_Rob - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 01:33 AM EDT (#23351) #
Wow, it seems like I'm the only one awake here in the Eastern Time Zone. :) Long game, ~3.5 hours, finally over. 6-5 final, Frasor the save.
_R Billie - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 01:33 AM EDT (#23352) #
Huh? We're not talking about putting him out there for 4 or 5 innings at a time. We're talking two innings tops. Anyone can pitch two innings as long as they get a day of rest the next day.
_Ron - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 01:33 AM EDT (#23353) #
Got real dicey in the 8th but Lightenburg and Frasor slammed the door. What a long game.

I don't think Frasor has given up a run in almost 16 innings now.
_Ron - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 01:34 AM EDT (#23354) #
Oh yeah I'm happy to report I won on one my tickets!!!

Good job Jays!
_R Billie - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 01:35 AM EDT (#23355) #
Frasor is doing it with smoke and mirrors right now. His control for the most part is awful but he's making some timely pitches and getting a healthy dose of luck to get the job done.
_Jobu - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 01:37 AM EDT (#23356) #
anyone know who starts for the Jays tommorow? Will doc be back?
_sweat - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 01:37 AM EDT (#23357) #
I'm awake too. Great end to the game, Frasor remaining solid, despite the extra work in the 8th. Hinske looked like a guy just coming out of a slump, working a lot of at bats full and heading on down to first.
_Ron - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 01:38 AM EDT (#23358) #
If you are a closer it's not too much to ask for 4 outs. Tosca made the right call, bring in your rested closer and best reliever you got to face the other teams most dangerous hitter

Foulke comes in a lot to get 4 outs and he doesn't look that big of a guy.

Eddie Guordado went 2 innings 2 days ago (game was in extras)
robertdudek - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 01:38 AM EDT (#23359) #
There was nothing really wrong with his control in the 9th. To three of the four batters he faced he put the fastball almost exactly where Zaun was set up. To Boone he got ahead and tried to get him to chase but no luck.

What's worrying is the lack of a second pitch that Frasor can rely on.
_Ron - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 01:39 AM EDT (#23360) #
Lilly is starting tommorow. I'm on the West and I'm sleepy, you guys in the East must be dog tired by now.
_Nolan - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 01:48 AM EDT (#23361) #
Just a few random thoughts...

0-2 counts: I was reading in an old Baseball Digest an article where a pitcher from the 50's and 60's was being interviewed (sorry I completely forget who it was) and he talked about how back in those days when a pitcher got an 0-2 count on the batter, the goal was to let him hit the next picth or 2 for an out, He commeneted that now many pitchers try for the perfect pitch and start getting to full counts. i noticed during this game that Mateo and Frasor both did this a litlle- getting good pitchers counts and then trying to get the batter to chase a pitch way out of the zone. Should pitchers go back to the old philosophy?

Hinske: I wonder if his stance is one of the reasons for his hitting woes; almost every swing of his looks awkward- even on hits. Perhaps getting him to square to pitcher a little more a la Wells?

Phelps: I agree with the sentiment here that Phelps it getting opposite field obsessed and hitting everything done. Would it help perhaps if he started consciously going for power? I've heard him talk about how he is just thinking about solid contact and that the homers will come, but it doesn't seem to be working. I don't think his average would dip as he has enough muscle to get hits on fly balls to the outfield. Maybe a trip to the minors to let him work on this (although we have too many regulars missing already)?

After all that, I obviously am not as informed and knowledgeable about baseball as any of those guys, so I'm sure they know what they're doing...just thinking out loud I guess. What do guys think?
_SNAKE - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 01:59 AM EDT (#23362) #
I think Hinske swing does NOT look ackward. It is rather smooth and consistent. Other than that, I agree with you big guy Nolan.
_R Billie - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 02:05 AM EDT (#23363) #
Frasor threw 34 pitches over 1.1 innings and only 18 of them for strikes. I'd be surprised if more than five of those were sliders so even with the fastball he didn't have good control. He made some very good pitches at times but he was generally out of the strikezone as much as he was in it which is never a good thing for a pitcher and mostly a terrible thing for a pitcher protecting a one run lead.

It took Frasor 16 pitches to get the last out of the 8th inning. Ibanez smoked the ball to lead off the 9th and only a big ballpark and a deeply positioned Johnson prevented extra bases. Frasor then walked Boone who couldn't hit the ball right now if you put it on a tee. Frasor walked the tightrope and fortunately his wildness did not hurt him.
_David Armitage - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 02:05 AM EDT (#23364) #
Robert, excellent article on Rios over at THT. I recommend everyone check it out.
_R Billie - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 02:09 AM EDT (#23365) #
Nothing frustrates me more than a pitcher ahead 0-2 letting the batter get back to a 3-2 count. Or even a 2-2 count. Far too many pitchers get too cute and waste pitches or throw a different pitch just to give the hitter a different look when 90% of the time it's completely unnecessary. If you're going to make an out pitch, make it 0-2. Resolve the at bat and bring up the next guy. Don't turn a 3 or 4 pitch at bat into an 8 or 10 pitch at bat. Things like that make the difference between a pitcher lasting 5 innings or 7 or 8 innings.
_t - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 02:12 AM EDT (#23366) #
Good game, considering their aforementioned "expansion" lineup. BTW, I doubt that Frasor's success is due mostly to luck. Of course it doesn't hurt him to be an unknown to A.L. hitters. He's being aggressive, and be honest, he could have far worse stuff.

Beautiful moon shot by Wells. Very few sluggers can pull the outside heater (Vlady), which seems to have been what he was attempting to do thus far. With his bat speed and power, IF he can manage to get mistakes in, he'll be just fine. Obviously, the only way he'll get pitches in is if he handles the outside pitches appropriately.

Anyone catch the Red Sox game? Mondesi looked awfully comfortable in CF.
_t - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 02:20 AM EDT (#23367) #
Hinske's swing only looks awkward when those stubborn pitchers throw "junk".
_BB FAn - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 02:50 AM EDT (#23368) #
About tonights starter. Not sure if you are aware, but a starter starts preparing for a game days in advance. Ask a starter how his 24 hours are prior to a start, and you might be surprised.

Kershner I believe had 10 min notice. Starting and relieving are as different as night and day. It could have been worse.
_JackFoley - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 03:31 AM EDT (#23369) #
On Halladay: "The doctor said he's got something going on in there and we need take a further look at it," manager Carlos Tosca said. "I don't want to speculate on anything, I don't want to jump the gun on anything."

I don't either, but that is really unfortunate news.
_Daryn - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 08:31 AM EDT (#23370) #
the 15 day disabled list is limited by the 40 man Roster.

if you need more men than that, you have to move someone to the 60 day DL... I think Bob File is there for that reason... etc....
_Sneeps - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 09:45 AM EDT (#23371) #
I'd like to read the Rios article, but I have no clue what THT is.
Leigh - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 10:09 AM EDT (#23372) #
http://www.hardballtimes.com/
Sneeps, THT is The Hardball Times. COMN
robertdudek - Wednesday, June 02 2004 @ 10:11 AM EDT (#23373) #
Here you go, Sneeps.

File is actively pitching for Syracuse. I think Myers is on the 60-day DL.
_jess - Tuesday, October 26 2004 @ 04:34 PM EDT (#23374) #
hi my name is jess and i am look for all the injuries on baseball because i am doing a thing in colleg and i was hopping if you can help me if can write back ples from jess thanks
_jess - Tuesday, October 26 2004 @ 04:34 PM EDT (#23375) #
hi my name is jess and i am look for all the injuries on baseball because i am doing a thing in colleg and i was hopping if you can help me if can write back ples from jess thanks
_jess - Tuesday, October 26 2004 @ 04:34 PM EDT (#23376) #
hi my name is jess and i am look for all the injuries on baseball because i am doing a thing in colleg and i was hopping if you can help me if can write back ples from jess thanks
_jess - Tuesday, October 26 2004 @ 04:34 PM EDT (#23377) #
hi my name is jess and i am look for all the injuries on baseball because i am doing a thing in colleg and i was hopping if you can help me if can write back ples from jess thanks
_jess - Tuesday, October 26 2004 @ 04:34 PM EDT (#23378) #
hi my name is jess and i am look for all the injuries on baseball because i am doing a thing in colleg and i was hopping if you can help me if can write back ples from jess thanks
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