I'm guessing there will be three anthems: the PR anthem, the Canadian anthem and the US anthem given that PR is a commonwealth associated with the United States.

David Bush will be making his Major League debut this evening - starting against the Montreal Expos in Peurto Rico!! Pat Hentgen was sent to the bullpen and Micheal Nakamura was optioned to Syracuse (AAA). Visit http://www.bluejays.com for details.

Whoa, stop messing with my mind guys. Is the game still at 7:05 EST tonight and this thread is up kooky early, or is the game starting soon?

http://me.woot.net
The Official Site lists 7:05 ET in several places; I can only assume it's correct.

It's kooky early. I'm leaving to see the Skychiefs soon.

Speaking of the Carribean, Manny Ramirez is from there, and he had a great game against the Yankees yesterday... I thought he had beat them single handedly with that 13th inning shot... but no luck...

I suppose Boston losing is better for us than NY Losing.. we only need to catch one of them (*snicker, I tried to say it with a straight face*)

Here is a portion of a recent BA chat in relation to Bush:
John Manuel: For me Bush's best ceiling is as a shut-down closer. I think he has the makeup and stuff to be a closer on a championship-level team. As a starter, he's probably a 3rd or 4th starter on a championship team. He's given up a lot of hits this year (108 in 99.2 IP), and while he has great command, his stuff doesn't profile for a front-line starter. His stuff goes up a notch when he closes; he hit a lot of 96s at Wake Forest and in the Cape Cod League, and he doesn't do that as a starter. That's not an easy call for an organization, and the Jays deserve credit for having made him a starter in the first place. Good problem to have

Do we know who got dumped from the 40 man to make room for him?

No word yet... I'm thinking they might designate Aquilino Lopez for assignment. He's struggling at Syracuse (7-plus ERA) and would likely not be claimed.

... is from Washington Heights, in New York City, which covers one whole island but is definitely NOT in the Caribbean.

Still no word on who's been dropped?

I really hope they don't give up on Lopez. There was talk early in the season that his struggles may have been linked to an attempt to make him throw a new pitch - the splitter, I think. When they last sent him down, I remember hearing how it was done to help him refine that pitch again. If it isn't working, it isn't working. I hope they give him another crack at pitching with his fastball and slider before deciding that last year was a fluke.

I think they could get away with dropping lopez off the 40, but i really hope they decide to drop Estellala. With Cash and Quirez both back, there's really no need for him even if he does get picked up, which he probably wont.

again, unless they can skirt the rule (rules can be skirted see KRod in the postseason), Estallala can not be designated, placed on the dl the 18th, his time is not up yet.

Uhhhhhh , my names not ryan. If Estella was put on the DL on the 18th then this is his 15th day.

Can somebody tell us the rules , do we have to wait for 15 complete days ?

That is my point, in some area this would be the 14th day, others the 15th, if they can do it, thats the logical move, but I presume technically they would have to activate him first, so, then the question becomes, can you activate and designate on the same day?

In case I have any problems with the Fan590 link, does anybody have any other links. I don't want to miss out on any part of the game and Bush's 1st of many starts..

Go Jays

At last!

All year, I have been waiting for the moment when Kerry replaces Bush.

Probably won't happen tonight, but soon!

Here I come to save the day!

Bush is in a difficult situation tonight. His big league debut will be very emotional; it's hard to relax and do the things that got you to the Show when you're so excited. He has to hit for himself, it's a hitter's park, and he's matched up with the Expos' ace, so he can't count on a lot of run support.

If David lasts five innings and keeps his team close, that will be a good night's work.

Mighty Mouse leads off with a double -- I know it's a small sample size, but he's .344/.429/.541 in 15 previous games (61 AB) in the leadoff spot. No wonder Woody's riding the pine.

According to Jerry Howarth, the announced ticket sales are about 18,000, but there are more like 1,800 fans -- "maybe 2,000, tops" -- currently in attendance. San Juan is a lot like Montreal.

John Cerutti just said that Simon Pond has been put on waivers. I'm not sure I like that move. Pond never really got a chance to prove whether he could hit at this level or not. Is Howie Clark really that good???

Bush started Wilkerson with a fastball strike, then eventually caught him looking with a dandy fastball that began inside then tailed back in to catch the corner. David went right after the next lefty batter Chavez, busting him on the inside black, then induced a weak comebacker on an 0-2 changeup. Against Vidro, he was more careful, left the 2-1 up but Jose just missed it, flying out to LF. Three up, three down. Welcome to the big leagues.

Good first inning from Bush. Nice control to Wilkerson, throwing a bunch of 3-2 strikes, finally getting him. Rios has moved up to 6th in the lineup as well. Yeah youngin's.

He looked pretty good for the first two batters.

A lot better than Rob Faulds who just credited Rios with a home run, then a foul ball, then finally an out to Wilkerson after admitting "I can't see". Ouch!

LOL at Faulds there! "It's GONE! uh...FOUL!! ugh, caught..."

That's the worst blunder in the history of the game...WOW!!! HAHAHAHA!!!

I thought I was watching an old CBC game with the King of Bad Calls, Brian (It's 4 PM on the West Coast) Williams

Well, its not quite leaving Pedro in to face Matsui, but it was funny.

But, I hates to admit it, but even I have once or twice lost sight of a fly ball.

That even tops Faulds call a couple of years ago in Seattle when he gave a Jay a game winning home run in the top of the 7th!!

Gotta cut him some slack, Bauxites. I'm sitting behind him in the booth, looking through some dirty glass, with the worst lighting I've ever seen. I haven't seen a fly ball yet...

Normally of course, when you lose sight of a fly ball, you look at the fielders and see where they're going. But Wilkerson barely moved for that one. So OK!!

Tim, they had to take someone off the 40-man to make way for Bush, and Pond will probably clear waivers. I thought it might be Estalella or even File, but this makes sense. I'm sure Simon wishes he had a longer chance, but he had just two hits in his last 18 AB up here, and it looked like AL pitchers quickly figured out his weaknesses.

Great job by Bush, after the leadoff single, to get a popup, a big K and a routine grounder. I'm delighted to be wrong; he doesn't appear nervous at all.

Scott, so I assume you wouldn't put the PR stadium at the top of the press box list then? I certainly understand...it was just fairly funny.

It should be interesting to watch Bush bat. According to the Sportsnet guys, Bush hasn't swung a bat in 6 years. WOW! He nubbed one and almost got a hit.

Bush didn't even look uncomfortable at the plate; he watched a close one, then nearly flared a base hit over Vidro. I wonder whose bat he broke in the process?

Bush's demeanor is one of the biggest tools he has going. He doesn't have the best stuff as a starter but he's calm and knows what he's doing out there.

Hernandez has settled down nicely after the leadoff double to retire the next 9. After the 140+ pitch outing last time, perhaps the Jays could see a few more pitches (38 through 3) to force him out early.

Dr. Zarco > Excellent assumption...this is slightly below a Spirng Training stadium...

http://wakeforestsports.collegesports.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/031201aaa.html
COMN for an article about Bush's conversion from catcher to stopper.

Haha, I figured Scott, thanks.

Oh, I loved that 3-2 curveball.

Great 3-1 changeup to Wilkerson. Then follows it with a perfect 3-2 curve. Impressive so far!

I realize it's only three innings, but isn't this nice to have a Jays starter make a M.L. debut and not get boxed around...

What a huge strikeout of Brad Wilkerson. Behind 3-1 he throws a strike with an 80 mph changeup and then completely pulls the string with a slow 70 mph curveball for the strikeout. Chavez then flies out to strand the leadoff single at second base.

With a runner in scoring position and one out, Dave had to face the top of the order again. After falling behind 3-1 to Wilkerson, he got a generous call from ump Brian Onora on something up and away, then broke off a gorgeous curve to strike him out again. He's making this look easy, but then again, so is Livan, who has retired nine straight. Scoreless through three.

Come to think of it, Hernandez and Bush look like very similar pitchers.

Sheesh, why don't the Jays take a couple of strikes? If you're going to make outs you might as well make the pitcher work for them. Hernandez will last 12 innings at this pace.

I was in the press box when Brandon Lyon made his ML debut, and he looked like Greg freakin' Maddux that day against the Orioles.

This has been great so far, and I know we all think Bush is the real deal. I saw one of his Syracuse games and I thought "Mark Prior lite" - he just looks like a PITCHER.

Still, if you were going to design the ideal circumstances for a ML debut, I think I'd pick the worst hitting team in the majors, and for good measure, play the game in what is more or less a minor league park.

I just tuned in...what's happened so far? And what's this about a Faulds HR blunder?

Nice slow curve. Bush looks like the real thing so far.

Wowie, Howie! Not bad for an infielder!

I just tuned in...what's happened so far?

A lot of guys have made short turns back to the dugout, Fred. That reminds me of the guy who arrived in the seventh inning of a scoreless tie, with both starters pitching no-hitters, and said, "Good, I didn't miss anything."

Cabrera shows bunt with Johnson at third.

Faulds says, "a little squeeze action by the Expos."

There were 2 outs.

Somebody shoot me.

Very nice play on the Bush bunt by Livan Large, who's a lot better athlete than you might think at first glance.

Bush is getting the hang of this. Harmless first-pitch popups by the first two hitters, and a four-pitch inning. Still zeroes through five.

Coach ,I imagine you are planning on interviewing Bush as soon as the Jays are back in Town.

Expos GM Miniya (sp?) just told Jerry that a annoucement on the Expos future will be made this month.

Wow, great sequence to Wilkerson. He fouled off a slew of pitches (and has each at bat-he's probably cost Bush over 20 pitches himself), but struck out for the 3rd time on another beautiful curve.

Jeff, that's a good idea. I'll certainly introduce myself and try to strike up a conversation, then we'll see if he's willing to do an interview. I'd sure like to ask him what was going through his mind tonight while it's still fresh in his memory.

That's all for Bush, and I am standing while I type this. Bravo!

I'd have liked to see Bush work his way through the two 2 out singles. That was his first real jam (if you can call it that) and he was still under 100 pitches. Either way, hell of a debut, fun to watch.

I agree. I'd rather have seen Bush get a chance to get out of the jam.

Way to go Dave , great 5 2/3 Innings start. Bullpen hold the fort please.

Another great move by Tosca...Minor League manager...

You've got bush well into the 5th, he'd been around the 'Spos' line-up a couple times and had all the confidence in the world. If there was ever a time to take out your young starter, it was then. The 'pen ought to be able to pick him up for a single out.

I would have left Bush in to get out of the inning rather than bring Speier in with men on. At least he only allowed the one run but that might be enough for Hernandez.

Argh, that hurts to see. Bush won't get this loss (he certainly doesn't deserve it). The bats'll wake up.

Yeah, that's a shame, to have Speier give up the run -- we'll never know if Bush could have retired Batista. I do understand the move; you can't go just by pitch counts in a major-league debut. Dave looked poised and confident out there, but he expended a tremendous amount of emotional energy getting through five.

I am so impressed with David Bush -- what a great debut! The Expos are a good team to begin your career against, sure, but Hiram Bithorn is a bandbox, and the 'Spos scored a couple of touchdowns and a field goal in a game last week. He was sharp with his command, worked quickly, didn't get fazed at all. Tough call on taking him out: I think he should've faced one more hitter, especially Batista, but he was getting tired and missing his spots, and he doesn't have the raw stuff to compensate if his command's little off. Fabulous debut, but don't expect 6 scoreless from him every time out; he'll have a lot of bumps along the way. But tonight, he was everything you could ask for and more, and it's so cool to see all the prospects we've tracked for so long making the big leagues.

Are there any actual fans in Hiram Bithorn, or are they just figures painted on the bleachers? At least in Montreal, the crowd reacts audibly to the plays on the field. What an embarrassment.

Keep in mind what happened with Josh Towers recently. He told the coaching staff he was running out of gas and he was yanked earlier than those watching the game would have liked. It might be a similar situation with Bush where he felt he might not have enough to go any further. I'd hold off on criticising Tosca until we have the whole story.

A great showing by Bush. Tosca hasn't made a lot of trademark bonehead moves lately, but this was one of them. A couple of hits by guys who had already taken some good at-bats meant nothing; all he needed was Batista's out, and Bush had baffled him twice already. I sure hope Bush doesn't lose this, he pitched far too well.

http://me.woot.net
Jordan,

The fans audibly react to Puerto Rican players; I've heard them cheer for Rios and Vidro at least.

While I would have liked Bush to stay in the game, I think the indefensible move is bringing in Speier. The Jays have Ligtenberg, whose job is to make righthanded hitters look silly. Against Batista, who looks silly enough on his own, it would have been an automatic out.

Well, Bush has had a very good night. It's unfortunate to see him pulled in the 6th, especially since Speier let a run score.

We shouldn't get too excited about this, but it is a fairly auspicious beginning. It was certainly better than throwing Hentgen out there again. I love Hentgen, but I think his career might be over or at the least, he is going to be in the bullpen again for a long time.

Batista is the kind of guy I'd rather him not face in that situation. Batista's very much a mistake-ball hitter and when he does get ahold of a mistake, it's going a long way. With Bush beginning to get tired and feeling the heat with runners on first and second, he was vulnerable to serving up a fat pitch. Instead of pushing him into that mistake, it seemed wise for Tosca to let his experienced bullpen come in and give it a go. Unfortunately the 'pen didn't work the way it was supposed to. Were Bush going up against the next batter, Cabrerra, leaving him in would have been a viable option.

Bush was just at 93 pitches. On Bauxite night in Ottawa (June 11), he threw 116 pitches and finished strong (15 of his final 16 pitches that night were strikes without any hit hard). It's warmer in San Juan, but the guy appears to be a battler.

I of course badly want to see Kerry replace Bush, but Ligtenberg pitched yesterday, is coming off an injury, and Speier has generally done a decent job with other people's runners.

Then he throws a pitch three inches off the plate, and Batista who NEVER hits the ball the other way gets it over Gomez head..

You're right...bring in the experienced bullpen that has done absolutely nothing for weeks...

Speier looked pretty good in the game last weekend when he faced the Expos.

Some people (usually the ones who have never worn a uniform) are awfully quick to demean someone who's managed 2,000 more professional ball games than they have. The manager and the pitching coach had been talking to the rookie in the dugout all night. They had a very good sense of how much he had left in the tank, and they had probably decided before the sixth that Bush was done at the first sign of trouble.

I wish Dave had stayed in and popped up Batista, but I hate second-guessers. Especially the ones with no baseball credibility at all.

Faulds and Cerutti talking about the Jeter play from that remarkable game last night, and Faulds said "a foul ball"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Jeter still in fair territory when he actually caught the ball? (Which meant it saved at least two runs.)

On the radio earlier tonight, the Expos GM said Bithorn has been a pitchers' park this year. He said the fences have been moved back (though I was unclear if he meant compared to last year or the Jays' last visit in 2001). It's quite humid. A lot of hard hit balls haven't even reached the warning track tonight.

Time To Pack It In.. Adams Is On To Blow This Game Up.

Well so much for Ligtenberg not being available. Here he is pitching while the Jays are trailing.

The bottom line is, you have to score a run to win, and this depleted Jays lineup will have nights like this against good pitchers. I feel good about the Halladay-Armas duel, and Lilly-Hill looks like a mismatch, so this was obviously the most difficult game of the series, and credit should go to Bush for keeping it so close. I simply don't understand the need to look for scapegoats in a terrific 1-0 game, but if you must, blame the absence of Delgado, Wells and Catalanotto. Just one of those guys might have made the difference; missing all three of them is an enormous handicap that affects the entire batting order.

And so much for Ligtenberg being able to retire Batista too. :)

Bahhh, Kerry "don't charge them to me" Ligtenberg strikes again.

I can't figure out what it is with this guy; often he does a good job, but whenever he comes in with runners on, it seems they always score on him.

Where is Chulk and gamma ray enhanced arm?

Batista is the kind of guy I'd rather him not face in that situation. Batista's very much a mistake-ball hitter and when he does get ahold of a mistake, it's going a long way. With Bush beginning to get tired and feeling the heat with runners on first and second, he was vulnerable to serving up a fat pitch. Instead of pushing him into that mistake, it seemed wise for Tosca to let his experienced bullpen come in and give it a go. Unfortunately the 'pen didn't work the way it was supposed to. Were Bush going up against the next batter, Cabrerra, leaving him in would have been a viable option.

I just wanted to say, this is a great analysis. That's good manager material there!

On to the painful part...

I'm reluctant, very reluctant, to make a capital crime out of a single game. But what we just saw from Speier, Adams and Ligtenberg is perfectly symptomatic of this team's bullpen woes all year.

StephenT's (and Minaya's) point about Bithorn playing as a pitcher's park this year are true. It's been quite a turnaround, and it makes doing stat analysis of the Expos very, very difficult. I think we also need to revisit last year's park adjustments for the Expos as well. They ended up out of whack.

Argggghh...I retract my earlier 'Ligtenberg + Batista = automatic out' comment.

Chris, you won't see Chulk and Frasor when the Jays are trailing, unless they have been idle for several days and need work to stay sharp. They have earned their setup and closer roles, and will generally be in to protect leads. Like tomorrow and Sunday.

what we just saw from Speier, Adams and Ligtenberg is perfectly symptomatic of this team's bullpen woes all year

Yeah, they have all been much better in the past than they have been this year. It's disappointing, and I'm not trying to make excuses, just explanations. Adams had offseason arm surgery and the other two have spent time on the DL, so I doubt that any of them is 100% healthy. In fact, if you asked Chulk why his fastball is 3-4 mph faster and has so much more life this season, he wouldn't say it's because he switched to the bullpen, he'd say it's because his arm stopped hurting. Come to think of it, that's what Frasor says, too.

Will Adams & Ligtenberg be retained for 2005??? Kerry has a two year deal and Adams just a one year deal I believe. J.P. can't be pleased with their performance so far. The "inherited runners allowed to score" can't be very pretty.

I can't imagine them bringing Adams back. Kevin Frederick has pitched brilliantly in AA and AAA, and Brandon League isn't far away. Perfect game notwithstanding, Jamie Vermilyea projects as a big league reliever. With all that talent advancing through the system, the need to hire free agents for the bullpen will greatly diminish over the next couple of years, but right now, it looks like we're stuck with Ligtenberg.

Wow - sometimes you just have to tip your cap to the other guy. Hernandez was exceptional and he just kept on throwing strikes; I don't know what this group of hitters could have done. I'm already looking forward to Bush's next start.

A propos of Coach's point, Vermilyea went back to the pen and got the save in the first game of New Hampshire's doubleheader today. He continues to pitch brilliantly in whatever role he's given there.

If you liked David Bush's performance tonight, there are a couple of young guns behind him, who are a year to a year and a half away. Patience will be rewarded.

Rosario projects as a reliever or will he start?? Obviously, he has to overcome his arm troubles first.

Well, I don't have any managerial experience, but I am a big fan, and I would like who ever has borrowed Tosca's brian to give it back to him...he needs it!
First he takes Bush out and then guarantees that he'll get a loss in his debut by bringing in the Arson Squad. Speier does an Adams impression and throws over the plate during an intentional walk. Are they ever going to get higher than ten games under .500?

Ten bucks says that if Bush stays in and gives up a three run bomb, the second guessers would be out in full force saying "How could you leave him in? He gives up two hits in a row, and he's got all that pressure since it's his major league debut!"

I love it. The Arson Squad comprised of Adams, Speier and Ligtenberg.
"When in doubt, throw water on a grease fire."

Maybe they should be given a shoulder patch of a " flaming molotov cocktail" to be sewn on their jersey much like Hester Prynne.

Ten bucks says that if Bush stays in and gives up a three run bomb, the second guessers would be out in full force saying "How could you leave him in? He gives up two hits in a row, and he's got all that pressure since it's his major league debut!"

A hypothetical bet - I love it! We may never find out how 'second-guessers' react in that situation given Tosca's preference to err on the side of pitching changes.

Funnily enough, I think Tosca's decision worked out. I still don't like the idea of yanking a guy when he can get out of a jam with one out without giving up a run (injury or obscene match-up notwithstanding), but Speier made good pitches and Batista had no business getting a hit on that pitch.

It's always easier to single out the thing that happened, pulling Bush, instead of the thing that didn't happen, like, oh, scoring even a single run. Any offence that relies on the pitching staff throwing a shutout every single game is not going to win very often.

This is based purely on my observation, but Speier seems to be really unlucky. He always seems to be giving up hits on absurd bloop hits that fall a foot between three different fielders (or right in front of "left fielder" Dave Berg). Speier is actually the one veteran reliever I'd want to keep for next year (though I know we probably have no choice with Ligtenberg); I think he's a hot streak away from showing why J.P. picked him up in the first place. Thoughts?

On the other hand, Terry Adams just bugs me. At least tonight, somebody made one of his inherited runners score.

I agree about Speier, I still think he can become a fairly dominant reliever and hope they retain him for next year. In a year and a half here, Batista NEVER fought off a two strike pitch (by going the other way) like he did there.

I agree with Ryan - I'd like to see Speier turn it around and come back next year. But I can't imagine that there would be many complaints if Bush was left in to face Batista, regardless of the outcome - this year's bullpen just has too many warts (Chulk and Fraser excepted, of course).

In other news, Morgan Ensberg finally hits his first homer of the season - a game-winning shot!

And speaking of exciting young pitchers... in his last six starts, Oliver Perez has 57 strikeouts in 39 1/3 innings (13.04 per game). I think the young man may have turned the corner.

Anyone know when Bush is scheduled to start again?

They moved the fences back this year. Almost all the increased offence last year in Bithorn were because of the high rate of homeruns hit there.