Lineups:

Blue Jays	Expos
SS Menechino 2B Hudson CF Johnson 3B Hinske 1B Gomez RF Rios LF Berg C Cash P Lilly	CF Wilkerson SS Cabrera 2B Vidro 3B Batista LF Everett RF Rivera 1B Johnson C Diaz P Hill

For the third start in a row, Lilly gets Cash as his catcher. Is this by design?

This is everything that is wrong with Major League Baseball. For the 5th year in a row we are talking about "the last XXXX ever" for the Expos.

MLB doesn't care that Canada Day was Wed, and didn't see fit to have Tor and Mtl play on Canadian soil.

I used to live eat and breathe baseball in summer but with the number of people I know no longer interested at all it makes it difficult to care. The lack of radio coverage for either Jays or Expos here in Ottawa, people hitting ~75 homers, "good" ERAs at 5.00 and the usual "I wonder who will beat the Yankees and Braves this year" have sadly lost me as a fan. Lynx stadium is empty. So in Ottawa, evidently, I'm not alone.

The high forehead guys in MLB had better figure it out soon because baseball is broken in Canada.

http://me.woot.net
MLB doesn't care that Canada Day was Wed

And for good reason; Canada day was Thursday. :)

I agree that it sucks that the Expos and the Jays didn't play on July 1, but MLB not only doesn't care about the Expos, they also seem actively hostile against them. Doing anything to make it easier on the Expos, for all we know, could have been vetoed by management.

I agree that it sucks that the Expos and the Jays didn't play on July 1, but MLB not only doesn't care about the Expos, they also seem actively hostile against them. Doing anything to make it easier on the Expos, for all we know, could have been vetoed by management.

For some reason MLB has decided that all interleague games have to be played at the same time, in the same league's park (so all NL home or all AL home), and all have to be weekend series (not 100% sure about this one, though). All of those work against having a Jays-Expos game on July 1.

I'm not sure why MLB feels compelled to have those rules, but there you go.

Now that I think about it, the weekend part is false. I recall that the Dodgers-Jays series was on a weekday.

Anyhow, there are still all kind of weird self-imposed MLB rules that make a Jays-Expos July 1st series difficult.

http://me.woot.net
Ssshhhh, you're ruining a perfectly good conspiracy theory.

All interleague "rivalry" games are played on the same weekend - Mets/Yankees, Dodgers/Angels, A's/Giants, Jays/Expos.

Ahh.. thanks Homsar.

Blue Jays have the bases loaded, nobody out.

Hinske strikes out.
Gomez pops out to second.
Rios strikes out. (Been doing that a lot lately)

This is the most frustrating team I've ever watched in my entire life, I swear. A runner on third is some kind of curse.

In the words of Russel Peters (I think that's his name, Indian-Canadian Comic) - "Damn you to The Hell!"

It is, of course, Claudio Vargas that I am damning...

Crap. Where did all the runs go?

It's tough to believe that the Jays may only score 3 runs this series and still come out of it with a win.

Just terrible plate discipline there by Hinske. He wasn't thrown a single strike and clearly he felt like he wanted to be aggressive and drive in some runs but that was a poor at bat by any standards. Vargas made some good pitches to Gomez and Rios though.

...I actually missed the Hinske at-bat (as well as most of the rest of the game). I'm focusing on Euro 2004 today.

Anybody else concerned by the lack of power by Rios?

He's been playing everyday since he's been called up and he hasn't even hit a homer yet. Most of the balls he's hit barely leave the infield.

I think Peter Gammons needs to point out which scouts told him Rios was going to remove Wells from CF and how Rios was a blue chip player (I'm not saying he's not going to be good, but so far I've been really disappointed by his performance)

Must be super stressful for the pitchers knowing on a lucky day your team will score 3 runs.

On a positive note, the Jays have 3 SP's in the top 17 in ERA in the AL.

Must be super stressful for the pitchers knowing on a lucky day your team will score 3 runs.

It would be, if that were the case. They scored 14 just a couple days ago.

It sucks that the Jays can either seem to score 10+ runs lately or 2 or fewer. Probably just a run of bad luck, but one they can ill afford.

Does anybody have a list of FA's after this season?

Terry Adams has made his name synonymous with "I conceed this game".

RE: Rios. It doesn't show that well on TV, but Rios is really, really skinny. One game at the Skydome last week I was sitting about 30 feet from him when he was warming up, and I swear I thought his pants were going to fall off of him.

As he fills out, he should add quite a bit of power. It's just a matter of if/when.

Whoa, I left the room for a few minutes, and I come back and it's 6-1?

Who's responsible for this?

The usual suspects...

It's my fault. I haven't badmouthed anyone lately.

I have to say that the last two innings have been some of the worst I've seen the Jays play this year; I have now switched to watching the Euro '04 final. Leaving the bases loaded starting with nobody out was bad enough...

JP has to be shaking his head at his bullpen. If you told him before the season Lopez, Kershner, Adams, Lightenburg, and Spier were all going to be brutal he would have said you were going to be wrong.

And you combine that with injuries to the teams 3 best hitters, and the HR power being zapped away from the rest of the team..... Even though we are halfway into the season I don't know if this is the real Jays or a just a year with really bad luck.

Excellent stats given by Faulds about the inherited runners allowed to score by the veteran relievers brought in by JP to steady the bullpen...Yet, Li'l Napoleon continues to run them out there and watching them fail...He's certainly a stubborn little man...why not try File or Peterson? Could they do any worse? How many times does the rat get zapped before he stops biting at the cheese?

File in, too little, too late...

Yep. I really don't know why Adams continues to be used in close games. A two run game in the 6th inning is very much in reach so why bring in a horrible pitcher in that situation?

Yeah, it blows. I think it's the HR power that is really killing them. You can afford screwing up situations like bases juiced/nobody out if you make up for it by hitting it out of the yard fairly routinely. This team can't seem to hit homers though. I thought this park was a hitter's haven too. :

I think 11 players in the majors have 20+ homers, and nobody on the Jays has even 10. In fairness though, Carlos would have ten if not for the injury, and Vernon probably would too.

OT: Hidalgo is sure working out for the Mets, eh? He just went yard again.

ouch, another painful afternoon. luckily, i've been sleeping through most. anyway, someone asked a good question - does anybody have any list of potential free agents this year. its time to start dreaming about next year.

I'm hoping this is Tosca's last hurrah.

He's been at it for a year and a half now, and still has no idea how to handle his bullpen. How many times has his intentional walk strategies backfired? Why is Gomez still playing first base (and batting fifth)? Why is Adams coming in in the middle of innings? If he felt Lilly was done, why let him start the sixth? Before the cabal comes after me, he didn't create this loss, but he's definately not helping.

Some excellent questions, NDG, that only JP can answer. Hopefully, Coach won't attack for asking those questions...

Hell, does anyone know when the last Jay HR was?

They haven't hit one this series, and I know they (somehow) didn't hit one in that 14-0 game. I don't remember anything before that, but it's been too long.

I'm a new generation fan, I want the long ball! ;)

This park is playing more like a pitcher's park this year.

While it's difficult to blame them for not hitting home runs, I thought they let Hill off the hook a couple of times with those failed steal attempts. Not scoring with the bases loaded and none out is just frustrating.

Rios has struck out 3 or 4 times this series on pitches that were well below his knees and that last one was high; odd since he'd shown a good eye when he first came up. Maybe playing at home has him pressing a little.

No real issues with the pitching moves today. I do wonder why Tosca has been so reluctant to bring in Frasor/Chulk in those situations. After all, it's not like they've got other defined roles...:)

Well I'm just afraid I'll get lumped into the second guess club. But I'm sure some folk here will realize I've been saying the same thing all year. Tosca just will not learn from his mistakes, and seems intent on making them over and over and over again.

Also am I imagining things or is this the third time in recent weeks that Speier issued an intentional walk and then immediately gave up a hit?

Well, luckily for the Jays, Adams, Speier, Kershner, Lopez and De los Santos are all unsigned next year. Ligtenberg, however, is not.

This according to Dugout Dollars

I don't think you can really blame Tosca for this. Frasor/Chulk are the late-inning man, so he has to pick his poison with everyone else. Well, I guess he could have gone with Hentgen...

Greece leads 1-0!

I don't think you can really blame Tosca for this.

Well, I can understand leaving Lilly in to start the inning, particularly with lefty Johnson leading off. Once Johnson walked, it was understandable to go to Speier. The intentional walk is a bit iffy, but Wilkerson (it was Wilkerson, wasn't it?) is a lefty, and Tosca probably wanted Speier to face Cabrera.
What I don't understand at all is bringing Adams in. He's been a disaster when coming in to a game with runners on base, and the pitcher's spot was due up in the top of the next inning anyway. The hit Speier gave up wasn't hit particularly hard - why no leave him in, pinch hit for his spot the next inning, and then bring in Adams for the bottom of the inning, with no one on base?
Of course, this is all probably moot if the Jays do *anything* the previous inning...

What I'm wondering is if Tosca is making his bullpen decisions to spite JP? If that's the case, then things are getting real sad with our favourite team. He's in the last year of his current contract with nary a hint of him getting another. And let's not also hope that he's making decisions just to win one extra game to save his dying job, at the expense of the progression of the franchise's young players. Playing Gomez and Zaun, while sitting Phelps and cash certainly smacks of that.

I don't know about Lilly. If you think he's done but are trying to squeeze one more out, then I think it's a bad decision (especially knowing the Jays relievers struggles coming in mid-inning). If you think Lilly has enough to get through the seventh, then five pitches shouldn't change that decision.

I also don't have a problem bringing in Speier. He's your best pitcher outside of the Chulk/Frasor combo who are reserved for late game. However why intentionally walk Wilkerson? Wilkerson is hitting .231. Guess whos hitting .231 for the Jays but is nailed to the bench? Obviously I'm being facetious here as Wilkerson is having a better year than Phelps, but the point remains the same. Wilkerson is a good not great hitter who is not having a good year. Speier doesn't exhibit a big platoon split, and has struggled when issuing intentional walks. Knowing these things, Speier should've pitched to Wilkerson.

But in any event, that move is still defensible. But like you said, Speier was not hit hard, and if Johnson doesn't bobble the ball, no runs are scored. To bring in Adams here is to completely ignore everything that's gone on in the last three months.

As for my other point, Chris Gomez bubble burst awhile ago of which Tosca seems oblivious. I'd rather have Josh Phelps whos not hitting well instead of Chris Gomez whos not hitting well.

and letting zaun pinch hit with phelps on the bases is another move that can be questioned

and of course, as soon as I say this, zaun extends the inning

Watching them play this game in the rain is an embarrasment for MLB.

What I'm wondering is if Tosca is making his bullpen decisions to spite JP?

Absolutely not. What would give you the impression that the two have a spiteful relationship?

And let's not also hope that he's making decisions just to win one extra game to save his dying job, at the expense of the progression of the franchise's young players.

Tosca's job is to win as many ballgames as he can. Now if he's out there overusing pitchers or burying guys because of personal vendettas, I'm sure he'd get an earful from JP, and it could cost him his job. The GM is always going to be more forward looking than the manager, as it's the manager's job to manage the day to day operations of the club.

I have no idea if Tosca and JP disagree on who should be playing and who shouldn't. I don't see how anyone else here can know either. It just seems presumptious to me to assume that:

A) They don't agree at who should be in the lineup.
B) Tosca's guys are playing instead of JPs guys.

I don't know JP from Adam, but from everything JP has said to the media, he doesn't seem like the type to put up with something like that from the manager.

That should be:

A) They don't agree ABOUT who should be in the lineup.

I agree Moffat.. good analysis

Tying runs at second now but with two outs. That 6th inning is looking extra costly if the Jays don't pull this out.

I feel confident in the assumption that JP has layed out expectations specifically around player development (with enough leeway so as not to infringe on Tosca's space as the manager). If JP thought his manager was making decisions to spite him, especially by compromising his vision, there would have been a change on the bench already.

With a wet surface do you try to lay down a bunt? I guess not since the tying run is at second.

This is my first time on this website, and I'm living this debate. At least people are talking about the Jays because they sure aren't coming down to SkyDome.

I don't know JP from Adam
Mike, all that time Cuttle Fish hunting together meant nothing to you? :'(

Mike, all that time Cuttle Fish hunting together meant nothing to you? :'(

All I'm saying is that I've never seen you and J.P. in the same room at the same time. :)

Eww, I step out during the delay and then I find out the game got good. I'm a little curios as to why Tosca didn't PH with Phelps for Cash if he knew that Zaun was coming into the game for Hentgen. It's a shame that Phelps had to sit for a series after his big night in Tampa.

I agree with Moffatt, there's no way that Tosca is trying to spite JP.

I was also going to say that pinch-hitting Zaun is reasonable but in checking his stats, they've also been bad for the last month. Now I'm really annoyed that Phelps isn't playing when two of the guys he's losing playing time to have .650 OPS's for the last five weeks.

I'm so jealous of the Texas Rangers.

-A. Soriano homered to deep left, M. Young scored
-H. Blalock homered to deep right, G. Matthews Jr., E. Young and A. Soriano scored
-K. Mench homered to deep left, M. Teixeira scored
-M. Teixeira homered to deep right
-K. Mench homered to deep center
-M. Teixeira homered to deep right, D. Dellucci, A. Soriano and H. Blalock scored

Geeeez, 6 homers today and two grand slams. I would have been ecstatic if the Jays had just managed one grand slam in their two opportunities. Or a base clearing double. Or a single.

What's bizarre is letting Cash hit for himself, then putting in Zaun for the pitcher, while Phelps sits on the bench.

(okay, for really bizarre you have to go to "Batting fifth, first baseman Chris Gomez!")

Morgan Ensberg again?

You gotta love a lineup that features a combined 2 HR's from the 5 and 6 hole.

Somebody needs to ask JP why Phelps and Cash aren't playing. The only answer I have is that Zaun, Clark, and Berg are in JP's long term plans.

I'm not turning back now. I'm firmly anti-Tosca. He's gotta go. The problems he's caused by overmanaging he's trying to solve by overmanaging some more. I don't think you need both a GM and field manager playing sabermetrician, that's too much baseball voodoo. Let JP get the right guys, who have the right numbers, and let someone let the right guys play - here's where I think Major League experience benefits a manager. There's no way a manager with ML playing experience lets an everyday, .300 hitting shortstop lose his everyday job to an injury. Anybody besdies Tosca would have given Woodward his job back as soon as he was healthy, and let him work through whatever slump or defensive rustiness. The bench isn't helping Woodward. Menechino is a band-aid, a surprisingly effective one, but a band-aid nonetheless. And this man-crush with Zaun is just getting silly.

On Rios: lay off. He's fine. He's a rookie and showing he can handle big league pitching. He had a modest hitting streak going. He'll be fine.

Were I JP I'd be on the phone right now trying to fool someone with Adams' 4-4, 4.70 ERA to take him off my hands. He's useless.

Many congrats to All Star Ted Lilly. Well done, Ted.

Congratulations to our surprise All-Star rep., Ted Lilly. Is it possible that the Jays asked that Halladay not be selected so that he rest his shoulder?

And given Joe Torre's current love affair with both Felix Heredia and Tanyon Sturtze, I gotta think that there is some way we can get the Yankees to take Terry Adams.

Congrats to Lilly!!!!

Suprised to not see Pedro on the team.

I think MLB needs to scrap at least one player for everyteam rule.

Wow just looked at Carlos Guillen's numbers... I'm sure the M's are thinking where was this Guillen while he still played for our team.

Rios,
I for one have been immensely disappointed, he's been fair to lousy in the outfield, he never hits the ball hard, and he's got 3 RBI in 125 at bats and if I could throw my 72 mile an hour fastball down in the zone he'd swing right over top of it too. Yes he is a rookie, yes he will get better, but this does not look like a superstar in the making.

What's with Lilly getting the All-Star nod? If you're not going to pick Halladay (which is understandable, given his "off" year), pick Miguel Batista. This is silly.

No disrespect to Jason Kendall, Juan Pierre, Aramis Ramirez and Steve Finley but let's send a long-overdue Bobby Abreu to his first all-star game.

I think it's a joke JD Drew and Lyle Overbay aren't even on the 5 man fan ballet.

But wait Giambi is starting .. WOOO

... ballot

if it makes you feel better 27pif, i would hammer your offering out of the park.

First year Ted Lilly has Roosevelt K's appearing at his home games; first year Ted Lilly makes an all-star game.

Coincidence? Can't be....

Congrats to the Cheer Club, the real heroes of the day.

Yes he is a rookie, yes he will get better, but this does not look like a superstar in the making.

This is a rediculously premature comment. Rios has tremendous talent. He will come around. It takes most players some time to adjust to the major leagues. Delgado and Wells both struggled a lot early on. Rios will emerge and he very well could be a superstar.

In 1994, Delgado had 130 AB's in the Majors, exactly the same amount as Rios has had so far.

Carlos only hit .215, BUT he showed patience at the plate (.352 OBP) and he hit 9 HR's.

I'm not saying that Rios is hopeless or anything ridiculous like that, but I don't really see the comparison to Carlos.

However, the comparison to Wells seems fair enough.

Keith Talent > some excellent points made by you, and none that I disagree with.