It's David Bush against Cleveland's Chad Durbin in a rare mid-season Thursday afternoon game at the Dome. Equally unusual occurrences: Josh Phelps gets a start at 1B, Kevin Cash starts at catcher, and Chris Woodward starts, period. Reed Johnson returns to left field, but not to leadoff: that position is occupied today by Frank Menechino. This isn't the strongest defensive alignment the Jays could field, so if Bush gets his usual assortment of grounders, he may have to record a few four-out innings. Enjoy the game.
Lineup changes: Phelps has been scratched, Gomez plays 1st and hits 6th.
Likewise for Cleveland, Merloni has been scratched, MacDonald plays 2nd and hits 8th
Lawton, lf
Vizquel, ss
Hafner, dh
Broussard, 1b
Blake, 3b
Gerut, rf
Sizemore, cf
MacDonald, 2b
Laker.c
Durbin, p
Menechino, 2b
Hinske, 3b
Rios, rf
Delgado, 1b
Wells, cf
Gomez, 1b
Johnson, lf
Woodward, ss
Cash, c
Bush, p
So has anybody else noticed that Travis Hafner has been the best LH hitter in the AL this year?
Likewise for Cleveland, Merloni has been scratched, MacDonald plays 2nd and hits 8th
Lawton, lf
Vizquel, ss
Hafner, dh
Broussard, 1b
Blake, 3b
Gerut, rf
Sizemore, cf
MacDonald, 2b
Laker.c
Durbin, p
Menechino, 2b
Hinske, 3b
Rios, rf
Delgado, 1b
Wells, cf
Gomez, 1b
Johnson, lf
Woodward, ss
Cash, c
Bush, p
So has anybody else noticed that Travis Hafner has been the best LH hitter in the AL this year?
No details re Phelps were given in the press box - Merloni was scratched because of an injury, a sore elbow. But nothing on Josh.
Anyone having any issues with mlb.tv playback? it is coming up with can not find file.
Damn, I was all excited about Phelps actually getting a start at first.
Only 2 walks and more balls thrown than strikes......easy peasy lemon squeezy!
*shakes his fist at mlb.tv* Work i say! Give me my Jays game!!!
The Jays shouldn't have any problems scoring runs against Durbin. The guy's been awful this season.
Jobu, I thought you were going to the game?
Did we just have our bacon saved by boneheaded baserunning?
Did we just have our bacon saved by boneheaded baserunning?
I wish i could of seen that play but mlb.tv doesnt want to show me th game! I can view any other game, but not the Jays game!!
anyone else having this problem?
anyone else having this problem?
I thought I was too until I stepped onto my driveway and found my dad took my car to work and didnt leave me the keys to his.... :(
It sounds like bad baserunning, but I prefer to attribute it to Reed's cannon of an arm.
It sounds like bad baserunning, but I prefer to attribute it to Reed's cannon of an arm.
How many of Mighty Menechino's homers are leadoff homers? Yay!
Jobu, make your dad pay you back for your ticket, since you've technically already paid for it.
Jobu, make your dad pay you back for your ticket, since you've technically already paid for it.
Here I come to save the day......
Friggen parents stealing my car, I should be watching this!
Why is mighty mouse being showered with boos???
Friggen parents stealing my car, I should be watching this!
Why is mighty mouse being showered with boos???
Reed's cannon of an arm...
HERE I COME TO SAVE THE DAY!!
.... and bonehead baserunning by Broussard AND Vizquel. Broussard thought he'd go 2nd to 3rd on a fly to LF and Omar took his time jogging
towards home.
HERE I COME TO SAVE THE DAY!!
.... and bonehead baserunning by Broussard AND Vizquel. Broussard thought he'd go 2nd to 3rd on a fly to LF and Omar took his time jogging
towards home.
Wilner answers my question: it was his fourth.
Thanks, Mike!
Thanks, Mike!
Hinske gets himself out more than any other big leaguer I know. He has so many terrible at bats where he pops up or pulls an outside pitch for a weak grounder... His average will never climb until he learns to go the other way.
Jobu, make your dad pay you back for your ticket, since you've technically already paid for it.
He'll use that lame "I bought this house" excuse again....
PS. Does anyone remember an old nintendo game called anticipaction or something? I've been thinking of it all day and I cant remember the name and its killing me!
He'll use that lame "I bought this house" excuse again....
PS. Does anyone remember an old nintendo game called anticipaction or something? I've been thinking of it all day and I cant remember the name and its killing me!
Since I missed the discussion yesterday, I wanted to repost what I wrote on the previous thread regarding improvements on the dome, and see what you guys think...
Damn..I go a few days offline, and I miss one of my favourite discussions: How to improve the dome. I hope people are still checking this thread because I have a a few ideas I want to bounce off y'all. In case people aren't checking this, I won't elaborate on my suggestions, but if asked to do so, I will.
1. Get grass in there....it can be done and it is worth the hassle. (see Busch stadium, Kaufman Stadium, and old Riverfront).
2. This is expensive, but it's not my money....remove the 500 level seats the stretch from past first base to center, and from past third base to center. Put massive glass walls in their place to see the city skyline, and if possible have these glass walls moveable to open up ( think Minute Maid Park).
3. Lose the in game host
4. Show video highlights from other games....this ain't so hard to do, and wouldn't rogers like to show off it's baseball TV package?
5. a full scoreboard would be cool too
6. Get uniforms that look as bad as the stadium!
Damn..I go a few days offline, and I miss one of my favourite discussions: How to improve the dome. I hope people are still checking this thread because I have a a few ideas I want to bounce off y'all. In case people aren't checking this, I won't elaborate on my suggestions, but if asked to do so, I will.
1. Get grass in there....it can be done and it is worth the hassle. (see Busch stadium, Kaufman Stadium, and old Riverfront).
2. This is expensive, but it's not my money....remove the 500 level seats the stretch from past first base to center, and from past third base to center. Put massive glass walls in their place to see the city skyline, and if possible have these glass walls moveable to open up ( think Minute Maid Park).
3. Lose the in game host
4. Show video highlights from other games....this ain't so hard to do, and wouldn't rogers like to show off it's baseball TV package?
5. a full scoreboard would be cool too
6. Get uniforms that look as bad as the stadium!
Jobu, it could be that there are lots of Indian fans in attendance at the Dome today.
I remember last night hearing lots of Indians fans as well, especially after Hafner's first and second homers.
Either that or reverse pyschology. ;)
I remember last night hearing lots of Indians fans as well, especially after Hafner's first and second homers.
Either that or reverse pyschology. ;)
PS. Does anyone remember an old nintendo game called anticipaction or something? I've been thinking of it all day and I cant remember the name and its killing me!
You mean that old "Win Lose or Draw" style game? I think it was called Anticipation...
You mean that old "Win Lose or Draw" style game? I think it was called Anticipation...
Lousy buffalo fans cheering for the indians.... we cheering for your stinkin football team (not me) cant you support our baseball team?
As much as I'd love grass, Jim, if the sun doesn't come in at the right angle into the Dome, it will die. The place wasn't designed for grass, so putting it in there will be hard.
I love the idea of showing MLB highlights on the 'Tron, though.
I love the idea of showing MLB highlights on the 'Tron, though.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaa!!
2-1 Indians.
Okay, I guess it's time to get some more runs.
2-1 Indians.
Okay, I guess it's time to get some more runs.
THis is the most twisted coverage i have seen on mlb.tv - it is pretty much what the camera man shows during the game - no fancy stuff around it - just the camera work.
Named for Hank: the Jays could hire the Trailer Park Boys. Growing plants indoors is their specialty.
I'm pretty bitter this game isn't on tv, as i could be watching it right now.
I'm pretty bitter this game isn't on tv, as i could be watching it right now.
Ahhhh.... thank you Mosely. I may now rest.
Whoa, the junior team comes through to tie the game.
Whoa, the junior team comes through to tie the game.
Cash Money, baby!
If there's a player who I pull for to prove his doubters more than Kevin Cash, I don't know who it is.
If there's a player who I pull for to prove his doubters more than Kevin Cash, I don't know who it is.
Alex, you mean like the cameraman for the big screen at the Dome? Like, no announcers or graphics?
Good move not starting Phelps. It would be embarrassing to expose his bat against right-handed Chad Durbin. Of course, right-handed batters are hitting .338 of Durbin this year, but that's irrelevant.
More Chris Gomez at 1B!
More Chris Gomez at 1B!
I wonder why they scratched him? They obviously thought Phelps would do okay against Durbin or they wouldn't have put him in the lineup. Maybe he hurt himself in batting practice?
I finally find the name of one of my favourite games, and then I cant find any ROMs for it. And then hinske and mighty mouse strike out. And I'm not there to see it.... Today just isnt my day.
if SCOTT CARSON comes in today, can someone ask him if Tom is going to travel with the team, or just do the home games?
Finally an inning where the Indians don't score...
Go Vernon!
Who has Chris Gomez's cell number? I want to send him a text message.
Who has Chris Gomez's cell number? I want to send him a text message.
Woohoo I got the Scoop! its reported here first hehehe.. well second.. but who cares anyway
AAAAA what just happened? I got a phone call and when I hung up we were on commercials!
NFH:
"Gomez hit sacrifice fly to center, Delgado scored.
Johnson grounded out to second."
"Gomez hit sacrifice fly to center, Delgado scored.
Johnson grounded out to second."
Who has Chris Gomez's cell number? I want to send him a text message.
I'm not sure it's the right time to tell him about someone falling asleep on the beach with a frisbee.
Hit Sac Fly Now!
I'm not sure it's the right time to tell him about someone falling asleep on the beach with a frisbee.
Hit Sac Fly Now!
Yeah, for a while I thought about ending all my posts with
LOL, Sarah
But I thought everyone would kill me.
LOL, Sarah
But I thought everyone would kill me.
I'm not sure it's the right time to tell him about someone falling asleep on the beach with a frisbee.
God, I hate that commercial. Does "target practice" mean what I think it means?
God, I hate that commercial. Does "target practice" mean what I think it means?
Thanks, Rob, I was worried that we didn't get anything.
LOOK AT CARLOS FELL ASLEEP AT BEACH WITH FRISBEE ON CHEST. CAN YOU SAY TARGET PRACTICE. LOL SARAH
Ahhh, please no. I hate that commercial!
LOL, Sarah
LOL, Sarah
Yeah, for a while I thought about ending all my posts with
LOL, Sarah
It's actually "LOL SARAH". Cellphones don't have capitals or commas. ;)
Does anyone actually use cellphones as phones anymore, or are they just cameras, text-messagers, MP3 players, and Internet browsers?
LOL, Sarah
It's actually "LOL SARAH". Cellphones don't have capitals or commas. ;)
Does anyone actually use cellphones as phones anymore, or are they just cameras, text-messagers, MP3 players, and Internet browsers?
Cellphones don't have capitals or commas. ;)
Mine does.
LOL, SARAH
Mine does.
LOL, SARAH
I just read a funny article about a guy who stopped using his latest-and-greatest all-in-one phone because his old phone was much better for MAKING PHONE CALLS.
I don't have a cell phone. I had a pager but I got rid of it when the emergency pages I got from work were "Where are the staples".
I don't have a cell phone. I had a pager but I got rid of it when the emergency pages I got from work were "Where are the staples".
I promise that I will never bring "the ad" up again.
Cash is money.
Cash is money.
I don't have a cell phone. I had a pager but I got rid of it when the emergency pages I got from work were "Where are the staples".
Yeah that's why I love my cellphone because I dont give the number out to anybody, but it's there when I need to make an outgoing call.
Yeah that's why I love my cellphone because I dont give the number out to anybody, but it's there when I need to make an outgoing call.
LOL, NFH for a second there I thought that Cash had hit a homerun.
Instead:
Kevin Cash singles on a soft line drive to center fielder Grady Sizemore.
And as far the phones go, I hardly know anyone that actually uses their cell phones to make calls anymore.
Instead:
Kevin Cash singles on a soft line drive to center fielder Grady Sizemore.
And as far the phones go, I hardly know anyone that actually uses their cell phones to make calls anymore.
How nice it must be to go to a MLB game on your lunch break. ;)
Does Hinske have a cell phone? I'd settle for "Dont waste at-bat now"
Yeah that's why I love my cellphone because I dont give the number out to anybody, but it's there when I need to make an outgoing call.
Same here. I've got one, and nobody knows the number. It's there if the GO Train gets stuck outside Mimico again after a Jays game and I need to tell my parents I'll be home at midnight. ;)
Same here. I've got one, and nobody knows the number. It's there if the GO Train gets stuck outside Mimico again after a Jays game and I need to tell my parents I'll be home at midnight. ;)
Does anyone actually use cellphones as phones anymore, or are they just cameras, text-messagers, MP3 players, and Internet browsers?
Oh! Games! How could I forget the crappy Snake games?! And calculators! And every damn thing under the sun!
Oh! Games! How could I forget the crappy Snake games?! And calculators! And every damn thing under the sun!
Barry Zito = headcase
It's funny to watch his meltdowns, because all throughout he has this look of "I don't give a flying F***, I just can't wait to party after the game" on his face.
It's funny to watch his meltdowns, because all throughout he has this look of "I don't give a flying F***, I just can't wait to party after the game" on his face.
There are lots of potential improvements in the Dome. If grass isn't feasible, then Field Turf with a full dirt infield like in Tampa isn't a bad option. It certainly looks better on tv, at the very least. Cheaper food wouldn't hurt either - $7.17 for a cheese, lettuce, tomato, and Italian dressing sub is lame.
I'd like to see the Jumbotron used much more fully throughout the game for baseball-related entertainment. Some ideas (generated at 3 am last night when I couldn't sleep):
Let's have fewer inane contests, t-shirt tosses, and bad Seth Green movie promotions. Gimmicks and other entertainment besides the main event are ok with me, so long as they are baseball / Blue Jays related. The club now has almost 30 seasons of history, which is plenty of material for in-game fun.
I'd like to see the Jumbotron used much more fully throughout the game for baseball-related entertainment. Some ideas (generated at 3 am last night when I couldn't sleep):
- As suggested, highlights of ongoing games
- This Week in Baseball Clips
- More Jays trivia
- More Jays history - on this date, featured old-timer, great/wacky moments videos
- More compelling stats on current batter / pitcher. For example, career stats vs. Jays for opposing players or full minor league stats for rookies
- Minor league video / stat updates; featured minor league of the day
- You Make the Call umpire judgement / rules knowledge clips
- Occasional live candid shots and sounds from the bullpens or dugouts. How about a bug in the bullpen phones or clubhouses?
- Play the original OK Blue Jays song (the one that waxes poetic about Steib racking up another K)
- Open the roof more. If it ain't raining or below 55F, play outdoors. The atmosphere at the dome is much better with the lid open. We won't die if we have to wear a sweatshirt or jacket to the ballgame.
Let's have fewer inane contests, t-shirt tosses, and bad Seth Green movie promotions. Gimmicks and other entertainment besides the main event are ok with me, so long as they are baseball / Blue Jays related. The club now has almost 30 seasons of history, which is plenty of material for in-game fun.
Wow, 6 k's already for Bush.
He's really settled down nicely, let's see how he goes after McDonald.
He's really settled down nicely, let's see how he goes after McDonald.
I'm just baffled that the Dome doesn't have highlights of ongoing games. Whenever I go to a game here in NY, I make sure to watch the video boards for the highlights and I can't imagine a game without it.
That's really weird.
That's really weird.
DIDN'T TIM LAKER RETIRE TEN YEARS AGO. -BREEDEN
#220174 Posted 08/05/2004 01:52 PM by Jobu:
I take it Barry's not pitching too well?
What else is new...
I take it Barry's not pitching too well?
What else is new...
Rich, the Dome is open unless it's raining or about to rain.
Same here. I've got one, and nobody knows the number. It's there if the GO Train gets stuck outside Mimico again after a Jays game and I need to tell my parents I'll be home at midnight. ;)
See, I just swipe my credit card in the wall mounted cell phone on the GO train when that happens. ;)
Everywhere I go there's a phone.
Same here. I've got one, and nobody knows the number. It's there if the GO Train gets stuck outside Mimico again after a Jays game and I need to tell my parents I'll be home at midnight. ;)
See, I just swipe my credit card in the wall mounted cell phone on the GO train when that happens. ;)
Everywhere I go there's a phone.
Quick hijack: Roberto Alomar traded to the White Sox for PTBNL
Why do the White Sox always do this?
They trade for a guy, trade him away, and then trade for him once again.
They did it with Carl Everett before the deadline, and now their doing it again with Alomar. I'm guessing management is really down on Uribe after his recent struggles.
They trade for a guy, trade him away, and then trade for him once again.
They did it with Carl Everett before the deadline, and now their doing it again with Alomar. I'm guessing management is really down on Uribe after his recent struggles.
White Sox get Alomar again? What's next, trading for L-----?
Oh, and did I mention how much I hate cellphones? And 14 year old girls who have cellphones?
Oh, and did I mention how much I hate cellphones? And 14 year old girls who have cellphones?
I guess I can say Loiaza now -- he's back down to normal Loaiza levels.
Roberto Alomar traded to the White Sox for PTBNL
You know, if you'd told me 5 years ago that Roberto Alomar would be traded to a contending team in August for nothing more than a PTBNL,
I'd have thought you were crazy.
What the heck happened to him anyway?
You know, if you'd told me 5 years ago that Roberto Alomar would be traded to a contending team in August for nothing more than a PTBNL,
I'd have thought you were crazy.
What the heck happened to him anyway?
Guess the Sox feel more comfortable with players they already know.
Countdown to the enivitable Harold Baines signing...
Countdown to the enivitable Harold Baines signing...
As an owner who's fantasy team contains both Bush and Lawton, I don't know how to feel about this game (or series).
But as a Jays fan I hate that Lawton guy.
But as a Jays fan I hate that Lawton guy.
Argh. inevitable. No wonder I wasn't a spelling champion. I'll stop now.
Should have just fainted there, Derek.
(Anyone know what I'm talking about?)
(Anyone know what I'm talking about?)
Was anyone else expecting the Yankees to trade their entire farm system, wads of cash, and some sort of chicken drink to Arizona for Johnson and/or Alomar?
I've heard it said, most recently as Baseball Prospectus, that catchers and 2nd basemen tend to lose it earlier than players at other positions because of their demands/injury risks. I'm not aware of any big injuries Alomar suffered before his broken hand this year, but I guess all those dives and double plays take their toll.
To shamelessly continue my own Seinfeld reference:
Waitress: So, the New York Yankees traded you for a bunch of Tyler chicken.
George: Dogs, twists, a kind of fermented chicken drink.
Now that's a "F*ckin' A" trade!
Waitress: So, the New York Yankees traded you for a bunch of Tyler chicken.
George: Dogs, twists, a kind of fermented chicken drink.
Now that's a "F*ckin' A" trade!
I'm following the game online, but I don't know how Bush has actually looked today. It seems he was uncharacteristically wild in the first inning and left a ball hanging over the plate in the 2nd. But after that, he settled down and mowed through this lineup in the 3rd through 5th innings. Then he hung another pitch in the 6th for the second home run, allowed two more baserunners, and now he's done. Is that an accurate assessmemnt? If so, that's a pretty good outing for a rookie starter against this lineup; other than the opening-frame jitters and a couple of mistakes, it seems like he did very well, especially in the strikeout department.
Okay, this isn't the ideal time for the bats to suddenly go cold.
That sounds like what we're hearing on the radio, Jordan.
lol
steinbrenner: moonlighting for Tyler chicken, pretty impressive George. Days in New York with the Yankees and nights in Arkansas with a top flight bird outfit, and a hen supervisor to boot! I am blown, blown away George, blow...blow...blow...blow...blown.
steinbrenner: moonlighting for Tyler chicken, pretty impressive George. Days in New York with the Yankees and nights in Arkansas with a top flight bird outfit, and a hen supervisor to boot! I am blown, blown away George, blow...blow...blow...blow...blown.
More Jays history - on this date, featured old-timer, great/wacky moments videos
Couldn't agree more, Rich
I take my kids to about 20 games a year. About the only time they pay attention to the Jumbotron is when they show blooper plays from other games.
Couldn't agree more, Rich
I take my kids to about 20 games a year. About the only time they pay attention to the Jumbotron is when they show blooper plays from other games.
Was anyone else expecting the Yankees to trade their entire farm system, wads of cash, and some sort of chicken drink to Arizona for Johnson and/or Alomar?
Yes.
The 2004 Yankees Preview, posted here March 19, included this little tidbit:
Story to watch for around July 25:
TRANSACTIONS
NEW YORK YANKEES: Trade minor leaguers Dionar Navarro, Ferdin Tejada and Eric Duncan, plus huge wads of cash, to ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS for 2B Roberto Alomar.
Yes.
The 2004 Yankees Preview, posted here March 19, included this little tidbit:
Story to watch for around July 25:
TRANSACTIONS
NEW YORK YANKEES: Trade minor leaguers Dionar Navarro, Ferdin Tejada and Eric Duncan, plus huge wads of cash, to ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS for 2B Roberto Alomar.
Close, Mick, but you never mentioned the alcoholic chicken drink. ;)
But I remember the "huge wads of cash" line from the preview. I must have stolen it.
But I remember the "huge wads of cash" line from the preview. I must have stolen it.
And Vinnie Chulk seemingly can't throw a strike.
That double play looms large now.
That double play looms large now.
STOP WALKING PEOPLE - GIL "Don't Call Me Jill" PATTERSON
Is Frasor basically the only arm in the bullpen that is still available today?
Aw, Thomas beat me to it.
CHULK PUT THEM NEAR MY GLOVE - CASH
CHULK PUT THEM NEAR MY GLOVE - CASH
Chulk is set on the mound, cell phone goes off in back pocket. Pauses to check it.
WATCH OUT FOR SHREDDER - RAPHAEL
Chulk nods his head in agreement. Phone rings again.
THORW STRIKE NOW - The Team.
Nods again and gets in position....
WATCH OUT FOR SHREDDER - RAPHAEL
Chulk nods his head in agreement. Phone rings again.
THORW STRIKE NOW - The Team.
Nods again and gets in position....
Chulk was just giving us value for our entertainment dollar.
Wow, I can't believe 1)Chulk was allowed to walk 4 guys in an inning and 2)he didn't give up any runs.
Anyone else get a case of the shakes just then?
I know - Terry Adams possesed Chulk while on the mound as revenge for trading him to the Sox!
I know - Terry Adams possesed Chulk while on the mound as revenge for trading him to the Sox!
Man, Chulk must have felt like Gabby Jay out there.
Who else is suprised Grady lifted the bat off his shoulder?
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20040805&content_id=819895&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp
Speaking of Bud Selig, COMN for an MLB.com story indicating that our fearless leader is getting a contract extension through 2009.
I pass this along without editorial comment.
Speaking of Bud Selig, COMN for an MLB.com story indicating that our fearless leader is getting a contract extension through 2009.
I pass this along without editorial comment.
Yesterday when we were talking about players plate music, I was thinking it would be cool if Kevin Youkilis used "Free Ride". But maybe we save that one for Chulk now.
No, no. You misread that. The new commissioner with the contract through 2009 is Quincy Carter.
Wow, Woody sure got his money's worth for that at-bat!
Struck out on three pitches looking. Patience is a virtue and all that, but still...
Struck out on three pitches looking. Patience is a virtue and all that, but still...
The Cleveland bullpen just struck out the side. If that aint a kick in the pants...
Then I guess you missed Carlos' AB earlier in the game Four Seamer.
He took 3 balls, and then took 3 straight strikes for the K. 6 pitches and he didn't even have to take the bat off his shoulder once.
He took 3 balls, and then took 3 straight strikes for the K. 6 pitches and he didn't even have to take the bat off his shoulder once.
The new commissioner with the contract through 2009 is Quincy Carter.
Yeah, what's up with that? Vinny Testaverde and Drew F. Henson are the Cowboys' only QBs?
Yeah, what's up with that? Vinny Testaverde and Drew F. Henson are the Cowboys' only QBs?
How come there's no MLB.com story on the new home for the Montreal Expos?
Oh, right. I almost forgot.
CONTRACTEZ CECI, SELIG!
Oh, right. I almost forgot.
CONTRACTEZ CECI, SELIG!
So I'm guessing that with Carter as the new commish, cocaine is now a legal supplement?
Anyone else a bit worried about Frasor this afternoon.
And that should have been in the form of a question, Alex.
FRASOR: NEXT TIME YOU APPEAR AT TEAM PHOTO DAY, DO NOT DOWN 4 BOTTLES OF NYQUIL BEFOREHAND - MLB.COM STAFF
I remember reading somewhere Frasor has had TJ sugery twice
What is this ump doing? Frasor threw one ball to Lawton (the last one) and walked him. The 0-0, 1-0, and 2-2 pitches were all strikes.
Yeah, what's up with that? Vinny Testaverde and Drew F. Henson are the Cowboys' only QBs?
Sir, you diss the venerable Mr. Tony Romo with that statement.
The current rumor is that (seriously) the Boys will acquire Doug Flutie to back up Testaverde. You know, it's always good to have an older guy around to mentor the kids like Vinny. (But you think Vinny is tired, after 20 years or whatever, of seeing the Hail Flutie pass against his Miami Hurricanes?
Dave, the cocaine comment was funny, but seriously -- apparently it was not coke, but pot. Which means just one thing ... Rickey Henderson's coming back, dudes!
Sir, you diss the venerable Mr. Tony Romo with that statement.
The current rumor is that (seriously) the Boys will acquire Doug Flutie to back up Testaverde. You know, it's always good to have an older guy around to mentor the kids like Vinny. (But you think Vinny is tired, after 20 years or whatever, of seeing the Hail Flutie pass against his Miami Hurricanes?
Dave, the cocaine comment was funny, but seriously -- apparently it was not coke, but pot. Which means just one thing ... Rickey Henderson's coming back, dudes!
That photo has haunted my dreams since Jasor was first called up. When he became closer, it took me a second to figure who he was, and then I went "oh, bad picture guy!"
Frasor's surgery from an interview here:(http://www.battersbox.ca/archives/00001963.shtml)
“I had arm surgery my junior year in college, which kind of set me back, and after that great year in 1999, my elbow started flaring up again. The surgery just wasn’t sticking, so I missed half of 2000, then pitched the second half, trying to battle through it. After the next offseason, I came into spring training with a sore elbow, and had to get Tommy John surgery again.”
Frasor's surgery from an interview here:(http://www.battersbox.ca/archives/00001963.shtml)
“I had arm surgery my junior year in college, which kind of set me back, and after that great year in 1999, my elbow started flaring up again. The surgery just wasn’t sticking, so I missed half of 2000, then pitched the second half, trying to battle through it. After the next offseason, I came into spring training with a sore elbow, and had to get Tommy John surgery again.”
YO FRASOR DON'T START WALKING EM THE SHOWER IS RUNNING COLD TODAY - VINNIE
Oh come on Frasor.
0-2 and he gives up a hit to Vizquel to let Hafner get an AB.
This has BAD written all over it.
0-2 and he gives up a hit to Vizquel to let Hafner get an AB.
This has BAD written all over it.
I love the old couple in the 4th row who never stop clapping.
I really like this MLB Gameday pitch chart.
The possibilities are great:
How about the next Sturtze vs Kapler
Or a typical Guerrero at bat:
The possibilities are great:
How about the next Sturtze vs Kapler
Or a typical Guerrero at bat:
That was a SWEET change to get Hafner. If he can corral that pitch, lookout!
Frasor comes up big with the K!
Anyone know why he looks like he just got rescued from drowning in an ocean in that pic?
His face is all pale and then his lips look almost blue.
Anyone know why he looks like he just got rescued from drowning in an ocean in that pic?
His face is all pale and then his lips look almost blue.
CHECK OUT HAFNER FELL ASLEEP AT PLATE WITH BAT ON SHOULDER. CAN YOU SAY TARGET PRACTICE. LOL JASON
The last 4 Jays have all K'ed!
Come on Hinske... END IT!
Come on Hinske... END IT!
My prediction: Hinkse hits 8 home runs in this at-bat alone, then goes on to take the HR title for the season.
It's about time for the Tribe bullpen to implode once again...
Off topic but...
Delgado, I keep hearing that the Jays are restricted by the Agreement to signing Delgado more than 20% below his contract this year. I thought that only applied IF they offered him arbitration. Anyone KNOW?
Delgado, I keep hearing that the Jays are restricted by the Agreement to signing Delgado more than 20% below his contract this year. I thought that only applied IF they offered him arbitration. Anyone KNOW?
I hope Tosca called for that attempt and Eric didn't go on his own.
Mylegacy, I believe that's only if he's offered arbitration, you're right.
Craig, that made me laugh out loud at work. Not good.
Craig, that made me laugh out loud at work. Not good.
Listening on the radio -- would the Rios grounder have been a double-play ball?
Ughh... I don't like Ligtenberg in these kind of spots at all.
This is alarming.
Ligtenberg worked two inings last night. I guarantee Justin Miller can't pitch today. Which leaves.... Frederick. And the rotation. If this game goes one more inning....
Why pull Speier after a nine pitch inning??
Ligtenberg worked two inings last night. I guarantee Justin Miller can't pitch today. Which leaves.... Frederick. And the rotation. If this game goes one more inning....
Why pull Speier after a nine pitch inning??
James, that Kapler vs. Sturtze chart is a riot. Good work.
This is alarming.
Ligtenberg worked two inings last night. I guarantee Justin Miller can't pitch today. Which leaves.... Frederick. And the rotation. If this game goes one more inning....
Why pull Speier after a nine pitch inning??
Ligtenberg worked two inings last night. I guarantee Justin Miller can't pitch today. Which leaves.... Frederick. And the rotation. If this game goes one more inning....
Why pull Speier after a nine pitch inning??
you think Vinny is tired, after 20 years or whatever, of seeing the Hail Flutie pass against his Miami Hurricanes?
Mick, I like this! But wasn't Kosar the QB for Miami in that game?
Mick, I like this! But wasn't Kosar the QB for Miami in that game?
This is alarming.
Ligtenberg worked two inings last night. I guarantee Justin Miller can't pitch today. Which leaves.... Frederick. And the rotation. If this game goes one more inning....
Why pull Speier after a nine pitch inning??
Ligtenberg worked two inings last night. I guarantee Justin Miller can't pitch today. Which leaves.... Frederick. And the rotation. If this game goes one more inning....
Why pull Speier after a nine pitch inning??
Magpie, what do you feel about the current situation in the bullpen?
Magpie, I typed and deleted a "why did I pull Speier after nine pitches?" 'instant message' by Tosca. I am wondering the same thing. I do understand the belief that you'll push one across in either the eighth or ninth. Still, overall it's not good planning.
SOMEONE SEND CAR. LOCKED KEYS IN HELICOPTER - GODFREY
Why does it seem as if all these afternoon games either go into extras or get decided in the ninth?
McDonald and Laker coming up...be careful with young Sizemore.
I CAN'T BELIEVE I WAISTED MONEY ON KERRY LIGTENBERG, BUT THERE'S GOOD NEWS... I JUST SAVED A BUNCH OF MONEY ON MY CAR INSURANCE BY SWITCHING TO GEICO - RICCIARDI
Good call four seamer, I think you're right. Seems like every time there is a day game I plan on leaving work early, but don't want to cause I'm afraid I'll miss the end of the game.
TOSCA, I CAN'T GET LEFTHANDED BATTERS OUT - KERRY
I THINK I'LL BUY A ROCKET CAR AND A SOLID GOLD HOUSE - DELGADO
JP ARE THERE ANY MORE RELIEVERS UP THERE WITH YOU - TOSCA
We couldnt get to the Cleveland bullpen and split a series with a 2 game lead. Why do the Jays find new ways of crushing my soul?
.... Frederick. And the rotation. If this game goes one more inning....
Not likely, with Kerry-sene out there. I suppose whatever starter is supposed to throw on the side today could log an inning or two. Who would that be? Douglass? Batista?
I don't know why Tosca was using pitchers for only one inning at a time in a tie game with little scoring. Wasn't he the LEAST bit concerned that the game could go into extras and sooner or later he'd find a reliever who didn't have it? I mean isn't it common sense that you want to keep your bullpen options wide open as long as the game is tied and not burn through relievers like they were candy?
It looks like he finally succeeded with the Indians first and third with nobody out, Ligtenberg full count on Sizemore. Double off the left field wall for Sizemore and the Indians lead by two. Tsk tsk tsk.
It looks like he finally succeeded with the Indians first and third with nobody out, Ligtenberg full count on Sizemore. Double off the left field wall for Sizemore and the Indians lead by two. Tsk tsk tsk.
YAY!! We get another one of those marathon Ligtenberg innings!
To quote the Simpsons
Worst. Signing. Ever - Comic Book Guy
To quote the Simpsons
Worst. Signing. Ever - Comic Book Guy
Ok so we've got LOOGYs and ROOGYs, but is there such a thing as a NOOGY? Y'know a reliever who cant get anybody out, which would make him a NO Out GuY?
KERRY, I'VE RUN FAR AWAY AND YOU WON'T FIND ME AGAIN - A REASONABLE E.R.A.
lol NFH. That is the second that has made me laugh out loud.
is there such a thing as a NOOGY? Y'know a reliever who cant get anybody out, which would make him a NO Out GuY
I think that answer to that is fairly obvious, given what we just saw.
I think that answer to that is fairly obvious, given what we just saw.
TOSCA, I CAN'T GET LEFTHANDED BATTERS OUT - KERRY
I'm trying to get right wing nut jobs out - John Kerry
I'm trying to get right wing nut jobs out - John Kerry
I think I'd qualify as a NOOGY. I'd even be better than Kerry at it!
Due Up : Delgado, Wells, THOR. It ain't over 'til it's over.
Any bets that when the Jays come up at the bottom of the inning the Indians will get a quick 1-2-3 and the jays lose 6 - 3
I really hate this ump's zone. NOTHING on the outside corner's a strike.
Maybe the Bushism of the year, courtesy of today's stump speech.
Sure, Alex, 50 pounds that they won't go 1-2-3.
THEY ONLY GAVE ME THIS JOB BECAUSE I LOOK LIKE WILL CARROLL -WICKMAN
As Wilner said, the first two groundballs found holes, the second because the hit and run was on and Woodward vacated his position. But again the Jays should have been at least one more inning away from using Ligtenberg if Tosca had planned ahead even the slightest bit, particularly with a short inning for Speier.
Yeah, this is the time when the Jays tack on 2 meaningless runs like they seem prone to do. Improve that Pythagorean record!!
While I don't like Lighterfluid as much as the next guy, he's not at fault here. Kerry pitched two innings yesterday. Why Tosca seems intent on using his whole bullpen before the tenth inning is completely beyond me.
This reminds me of that lovely game earlier this year when Batista went eight innings, and Tosca was out of pitchers by the 11th. Amazing.
Anyone know what the Jays record is when tied after eight?
This reminds me of that lovely game earlier this year when Batista went eight innings, and Tosca was out of pitchers by the 11th. Amazing.
Anyone know what the Jays record is when tied after eight?
It's funny because its true.
The promisory waiver that he made people sign when they attended his speech a few days ago, out in Arizona I think, was also pretty hilarious.
The promisory waiver that he made people sign when they attended his speech a few days ago, out in Arizona I think, was also pretty hilarious.
I LOOK LIKE HIM TOO. WE'RE THE FRICKIN' BOBBSEY TRIPLETS. -RICK WHITE
Which brings up the question...
WHY THE HECK WAS HINSKE TRYING TO STEAL WITH 1 OUT IN THE NINTH!!
WHY THE HECK WAS HINSKE TRYING TO STEAL WITH 1 OUT IN THE NINTH!!
While I don't like Lighterfluid as much as the next guy, he's not at fault here.
I gotta disagree. I know he was used yesterday. He still gave up 3 runs. It's not like he pitched 5 innings yesterday or 4 days in a row. Just 2 innings-and if I cared more, I'd look up the pitch count. Someone please take responsibility for their actions.
I gotta disagree. I know he was used yesterday. He still gave up 3 runs. It's not like he pitched 5 innings yesterday or 4 days in a row. Just 2 innings-and if I cared more, I'd look up the pitch count. Someone please take responsibility for their actions.
Trying to get into scoring position for Rios. Not a terrible idea, since AR is not going to score Eric from first all that often.
Hinske was probably stealing because he was confident he could make it after timing the pitcher to the plate. And he was right except he overslid the bag.
A great question Dave. Why he'd ever do that to risk Delgado not getting up-even though he hasn't been particularly Delgado-like-is fairly dumb.
Hinske is a good basestealer, Victor Martinez is a bad throwing catcher, and a single is far more common than a double (and would have ended the game if Hinske was safe). I think that was the perfect opportunity to steal, just not the right result.
Well, it is the right year for Kerry to get his worst year of his career out of the way in.
Who ever thought "it ain't over until it's over" cries would include the mention of Chris Gomez?
Who ever thought "it ain't over until it's over" cries would include the mention of Chris Gomez?
HEY WICKMAN, DIDN'T I SEE YOU ON COPPS LAST NIGHT? - BRADEN
Victor Martinez hurt his hammy last night-hasn't been in at any point of the game today.
Dr. Z,
Obviously Lighterfluid isn't paid to give up three runs, but however he was put in a bad situation, that COULD HAVE BEEN EASILY AVOIDED! That is why I don't think he's to blame.
Obviously Lighterfluid isn't paid to give up three runs, but however he was put in a bad situation, that COULD HAVE BEEN EASILY AVOIDED! That is why I don't think he's to blame.
My bad on the repeated posts - thought I had a crash, and was double clicking.... blah blah
But Hey! I told you!!
But Hey! I told you!!
brutal. get tosca OUT of there. worst bullpen management IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE!
NDG-I agree it coulda/shoulda been avoided, but a relief pitcher should be able to pitch 2 innings one day and come back the next day and allow fewer than 3 runs.
Victor Martinez hurt his hammy last night-hasn't been in at any point of the game today.
Frickin work won't allow me to follow the game properly, glad though it makes me look dumb (for your entertainment).
Frickin work won't allow me to follow the game properly, glad though it makes me look dumb (for your entertainment).
WOODY, YOU WANT YOUR JOB BACK WELL NOWS YOUR CHANCE - JP
I didn't think it was that bad. Sure, Speier should maybe have gone another inning. But it was one mistake, made for a perfectly sensible reason. I don't agree with it, but I think his bullpen use today was quite defensible.
Victor Martinez hurt his hammy last night-hasn't been in at any point of the game today.
Even with Laker catching, it's a good gamble to send Hinske in a tie game. Rios is not terribly K prone and with a 2-strike count, probably represented a decent GIDP risk.
And sitting around waiting for Delgado magic hasn't been a highly worthwhile endeavour this season.
I'm not a big fan of base stealing (though a huge fan when it works!), but there is a time and a place for it, and I think that was one.
Even with Laker catching, it's a good gamble to send Hinske in a tie game. Rios is not terribly K prone and with a 2-strike count, probably represented a decent GIDP risk.
And sitting around waiting for Delgado magic hasn't been a highly worthwhile endeavour this season.
I'm not a big fan of base stealing (though a huge fan when it works!), but there is a time and a place for it, and I think that was one.
Gregg Zaun's picture on Gameday is the scariest thing I've ever seen.
NDG-I agree it coulda/shoulda been avoided, but a relief pitcher should be able to pitch 2 innings one day and come back the next day and allow fewer than 3 runs.
Yes of course, but by this logic why should three other pitchers who didn't pitch at all the night before only pitch one inning? How does this make sense?
Yes of course, but by this logic why should three other pitchers who didn't pitch at all the night before only pitch one inning? How does this make sense?
Here is a scary thought - bases loaded with Berg at the plate.
Good opportunity for the Jays to win today and they just didn't execute.
How they DIDN'T tag Durbin and the Indians pen is beyond me...
Oh well, on to New York where I have tickets to 3 of the 4 games!
How they DIDN'T tag Durbin and the Indians pen is beyond me...
Oh well, on to New York where I have tickets to 3 of the 4 games!
Mick, I like this! But wasn't Kosar the QB for Miami in that game?
Yes, that's right. But I'm pretty sure Vinny was on the team, backing up Kosar. Geez. Kosar and Testaverde. Back then did they just call Miami "Land of the Immobile Quarterbacks"?
Yes, that's right. But I'm pretty sure Vinny was on the team, backing up Kosar. Geez. Kosar and Testaverde. Back then did they just call Miami "Land of the Immobile Quarterbacks"?
I don't know why Tosca was using pitchers for only one inning at a time in a tie game with little scoring. Wasn't he the LEAST bit concerned that the game could go into extras and sooner or later he'd find a reliever who didn't have it? I mean isn't it common sense that you want to keep your bullpen options wide open as long as the game is tied and not burn through relievers like they were candy?
It's worse than that. Ligtenberg can't get out lefthanded batters. Period. Tosca has known this for the entire season.
Look at who he faced in the 10th:
Broussard (L)
Blake (R)
Gerut (L)
Sizemore (L)
McDonald (R)
Tosca is somewhat hamstrung by the lack of a lefthanded long reliever, but wow. Save Kerry for games that are already blowouts, or use him exclusively against righthanded batters if the game is on the line.
Yes of course, but by this logic why should three other pitchers who didn't pitch at all the night before only pitch one inning? How does this make sense?
I agree. But Speier's really the only one. Chulk and Frasor both used 24 pitches to get through their inning-and didn't look good doing it-stranding 5 between them. Just another frustrating game!
I agree. But Speier's really the only one. Chulk and Frasor both used 24 pitches to get through their inning-and didn't look good doing it-stranding 5 between them. Just another frustrating game!
Hey, Dave, you going to wear any Jays gear at Yankee stadium?
I wore my Jays hat to Fenway, and I got asked about my shoes a bunch of times, but nobody said anything about my hat.
I wore my Jays hat to Fenway, and I got asked about my shoes a bunch of times, but nobody said anything about my hat.
Ugh. Jacko has a good point, actually. If there is one thing to hang on Carlos today, it's that Ligtenberg was misused at a spot in the lineup where he would need to face lots of lefty hitters.
I got asked about my shoes a bunch of times, but nobody said anything about my hat
Well, people tend to back off a guy when he tells them his shoes are made out of human leather.
Well, people tend to back off a guy when he tells them his shoes are made out of human leather.
LOL OF COURSE I AM NFH!
I have 3 Jays jerseys, so I plan on wearing all 3 throughout the series starting with my Vernon Wells jersey to remind Yankee fans of last week.
I welcome any "torture" from Yankee fans. That's why I sit in the right field bleachers.
The drunk fans do get pretty annoying though.
I have 3 Jays jerseys, so I plan on wearing all 3 throughout the series starting with my Vernon Wells jersey to remind Yankee fans of last week.
I welcome any "torture" from Yankee fans. That's why I sit in the right field bleachers.
The drunk fans do get pretty annoying though.
Back then did they just call Miami "Land of the Immobile Quarterbacks"?
Since the Dolphins had maybe history's most immobile QB as well, I'd say the answer is yes. :-)
Since the Dolphins had maybe history's most immobile QB as well, I'd say the answer is yes. :-)
In response to an earlier query, the Jays are now 6-7 (after today's loss) when tied after 8. In other words, completely consistent with their play all season.
NFH, I'll be at the game tomorrow with a Jays cap and jersey (courtesy of my brother).
NFH, I'll be at the game tomorrow with a Jays cap and jersey (courtesy of my brother).
Actually, I stand corrected. Since the last time I looked, Ligtenberg has gotten his numbers against lefties down from "atrocious" to "mediocre". COMN.
Also, as Magpie pointed out, Ligtenberg was probably gassed from being used for 2IP the day before.
Aieeee.
What a frustrating season. Every time I feel like the Jays are turning the corner, they stumble. Badly.
Also, as Magpie pointed out, Ligtenberg was probably gassed from being used for 2IP the day before.
Aieeee.
What a frustrating season. Every time I feel like the Jays are turning the corner, they stumble. Badly.
Well, people tend to back off a guy when he tells them his shoes are made out of human leather.
LOL! I nearly spit my drink out just now Craig!
Yankee stadium can be a funny place. I'm hoping that one day Ali G/Borat/Bruno does a skit over there because that would make for some serious comedy.
Does anyone like the Ali G show by the way?
LOL! I nearly spit my drink out just now Craig!
Yankee stadium can be a funny place. I'm hoping that one day Ali G/Borat/Bruno does a skit over there because that would make for some serious comedy.
Does anyone like the Ali G show by the way?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=5879
Er, um, COMN on this.
Also, that's just 60 AB. Over the last 5 years, Ligtenberg has had brutal numbers against LHB.
Er, um, COMN on this.
Also, that's just 60 AB. Over the last 5 years, Ligtenberg has had brutal numbers against LHB.
Dave, I'm loving the Ali G show. I'd seen a bunch of his stuff from Britain and didn't even realize he had a show over here until a search for some Chapelle show on Kazaa led me to Ali G. Fo' real.
LOL good stuff Paul.
If you want some suggestions, try downloading the Science episode, or the Art episode. Those 2 are hilarious!
"Science... what is it all about"
"Tecmology... what is THAT all about"
lol, the dude's a riot!
If you want some suggestions, try downloading the Science episode, or the Art episode. Those 2 are hilarious!
"Science... what is it all about"
"Tecmology... what is THAT all about"
lol, the dude's a riot!
I have 3 Jays jerseys, so I plan on wearing all 3 throughout the series starting with my Vernon Wells jersey to remind Yankee fans of last week.
Excellent. And when they boo Delgado, ask them why they don't boo Prinz, because he runs into the dugout during God Bless America too.
Excellent. And when they boo Delgado, ask them why they don't boo Prinz, because he runs into the dugout during God Bless America too.
I've got the Science and Art episodes, they are gold.
And Bruno is really growing on me. At first I didn't like him, then I saw him go to Arkansas... that was fantastic. Pretty much all his interviews are good, particularly where he got Ralph Nader to rap, and the one with the guy from inside the Actor's studio.
And Bruno is really growing on me. At first I didn't like him, then I saw him go to Arkansas... that was fantastic. Pretty much all his interviews are good, particularly where he got Ralph Nader to rap, and the one with the guy from inside the Actor's studio.
The next time the Yankees come to town someone should bring a picture of Delgado in the style of the famous Che Guevara picture that says Che Delgado under it. I think that would be quite funny.
Because the media didn't tell them to boo Prinz. Derr. ;-)
If you want to make them question their media, ask them why they support weapons testing that kills Puerto Rican civillians and point out that Delgado's been sitting out God Bless America longer than the US has been in Iraq.
Or you could really be unpleasant, and start harping on people at the ballpark about all sorts of political garbage.
I'm still annoyed at the Cleveland fans in the Dome last night who kept chanting "USA! USA! USA!"
Right, but that's not politics. That's just being gauche (and frankly, rather quaintly American).
Craig, promise me that when the Jays get to another World Series you'll come with me to whatever American city they're playing against and get wicked seats with me so we can sing O Canada at the top of our lungs when they win. Or even every time they get a hit.
I went to a Dallas Stars game a while back and sand along with "O,m Canada" (much better anthem than "The Star-Spangled Banner," musically, and I'd learned it as a knee-high lad attending college hockey games) ... the glares I got, ooooh, it was nasty.
I'm still annoyed at the Cleveland fans in the Dome last night who kept chanting "USA! USA! USA!"
A couple of years ago one of my sons played in the Mississuaga Midget International Baseball Tournament. There were a lot of US teams in the tournament and my sons team was very good, and they beat US teams in the quarter final and semi final but lost to another US team in the final. As soon as the final out was recorded the parents of the US team started with the "USA, USA" chant. I could not believe it, a team of kids from small town USA beats a team of kids from small town Canada and it is a victory for the US?
A couple of years ago one of my sons played in the Mississuaga Midget International Baseball Tournament. There were a lot of US teams in the tournament and my sons team was very good, and they beat US teams in the quarter final and semi final but lost to another US team in the final. As soon as the final out was recorded the parents of the US team started with the "USA, USA" chant. I could not believe it, a team of kids from small town USA beats a team of kids from small town Canada and it is a victory for the US?
Excuse me ... according to the wire, Aaron Sele is 7-0?
Aaron Sele is 7-0???
Why have we not been informed of this stunning, Book of Revelations-type, development?
Aaron Sele is 7-0???
Why have we not been informed of this stunning, Book of Revelations-type, development?
I went to a Dallas Stars game a while back and sand along with "O,m Canada"
Mick, that better be a typo. Rob doesn't take kindly to Americans mocking our anthem. ;)
Although I must say, isn't it time we got rid of:
"In all thy sons command"
"We see thee rise"
"We stand on guard for thee"
It's not 1867 anymore.
Mick, that better be a typo. Rob doesn't take kindly to Americans mocking our anthem. ;)
Although I must say, isn't it time we got rid of:
"In all thy sons command"
"We see thee rise"
"We stand on guard for thee"
It's not 1867 anymore.
I'm always standing on guard for thee. I don't know about you, Rob.
Canada engages in some of that overly patriotic stuff too, but usually it's at the expense of the Americans, as opposed to being patriotic itself. The junior hockey tournament last year was a good example, although I was glad to see that got cleared up and the kids from the States were invited up for another tournament.
I have noticed that when Canadians do stuff like that it's often politically driven to a degree (the protests there were driven by dissaproval of the Iraq war, I believe), and Americans tend to be solely patriotic, but that could be based on impressions.
Does anoyone have a link to a story about Prinz? I hadn't heard about that before? Does he do it because of the Iraq war, or for different reasons?
Canada engages in some of that overly patriotic stuff too, but usually it's at the expense of the Americans, as opposed to being patriotic itself. The junior hockey tournament last year was a good example, although I was glad to see that got cleared up and the kids from the States were invited up for another tournament.
I have noticed that when Canadians do stuff like that it's often politically driven to a degree (the protests there were driven by dissaproval of the Iraq war, I believe), and Americans tend to be solely patriotic, but that could be based on impressions.
Does anoyone have a link to a story about Prinz? I hadn't heard about that before? Does he do it because of the Iraq war, or for different reasons?
Oh, I'm standing on guard and all, I just find the Olde English words a bit outdated.
There hasn't been a story as far as I've seen, Thomas. I was watching a random game on TV and saw him get up and hightail it into the clubhouse as the rest of the team took to the field for God Bless America one night, and then saw him do it again a few nights later.
I think I figured out what's happening to our Jays:
1. They can't hit;
2. They can't throw;
3. They can't catch.
Other than that everything is great.
Roll on April 2005!
1. They can't hit;
2. They can't throw;
3. They can't catch.
Other than that everything is great.
Roll on April 2005!
I missed the game today so what the hell happened in the top of the 10th inning?
You would prefer...
"We stand on guard for you"
"In all your people command" (gotta be PC)
Somehow the word "thee" just sounds better lyrically IMHO. Plus you dont want your national anthem to end with the word "you". You just end up with a whole bunch of people holding the last note making an "eeewwww" sound. Oh yeah and it wouldnt rhyme with "glorious and free" anymore either.
"We stand on guard for you"
"In all your people command" (gotta be PC)
Somehow the word "thee" just sounds better lyrically IMHO. Plus you dont want your national anthem to end with the word "you". You just end up with a whole bunch of people holding the last note making an "eeewwww" sound. Oh yeah and it wouldnt rhyme with "glorious and free" anymore either.
How about ending with "On guard we'll always be"?
That way you have the same sound, so it rhymes with free.
And you get the same message as "stand on guard for thee."
I wrote a better version (IMO only, of course) of the anthem...it's somewhere in my desk. I'll see if I can find it and post it here.
That way you have the same sound, so it rhymes with free.
And you get the same message as "stand on guard for thee."
I wrote a better version (IMO only, of course) of the anthem...it's somewhere in my desk. I'll see if I can find it and post it here.
And please, notice how I never objected to "in all thy sons command", it was "in all thy sons command" I didn't like.
I hate the PC-police. I would not prefer any version that is politically correct but not changed in any other way.
If anyone doesn't like me talking about changing the anthem (since many I have already talked to about it never talk to me anymore because of it), just say so and I'll shut up. This is a baseball site, after all.
I hate the PC-police. I would not prefer any version that is politically correct but not changed in any other way.
If anyone doesn't like me talking about changing the anthem (since many I have already talked to about it never talk to me anymore because of it), just say so and I'll shut up. This is a baseball site, after all.
Hm, this is just off the top of my head, but it wouldn't be hard to tweak the lyrics without affecting meter or meaing:
O, Canada
Our home and native land
True patriot's love; together, we all stand
With glowing hearts we see sunrise,
O'er true north strong and free
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand guard loyally
God keep our land glorious and free
O Canada, we stand guard loyally
O Canada, we stand guard loyally
Something like that.
O, Canada
Our home and native land
True patriot's love; together, we all stand
With glowing hearts we see sunrise,
O'er true north strong and free
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand guard loyally
God keep our land glorious and free
O Canada, we stand guard loyally
O Canada, we stand guard loyally
Something like that.
$7.17 for a cheese, lettuce, tomato, and Italian dressing sub is lame.
As a vegetarian, one of the things that gets me more than anything else is when venues charge the same for the cheese, lettuce, tomato & dressing as a meal that offers a piece of protein derrived from an animal. If they'd find a cheap veggie patty or chunks of tofu to toss in there I'd be thrilled but it bugs me to no end that I'm losing a considerable amount of nutrition and value because I don't (and at this point can't) eat meat. Mr. Sub is probably the worst fastfood establishments for this type of service.
As a vegetarian, one of the things that gets me more than anything else is when venues charge the same for the cheese, lettuce, tomato & dressing as a meal that offers a piece of protein derrived from an animal. If they'd find a cheap veggie patty or chunks of tofu to toss in there I'd be thrilled but it bugs me to no end that I'm losing a considerable amount of nutrition and value because I don't (and at this point can't) eat meat. Mr. Sub is probably the worst fastfood establishments for this type of service.
Incidentally, if anyone gets all hot and heavy about tweaking lyrics, this was prominently displayed on the governmental site about the anthem: "... the National Anthem Act only sets the melody for the anthem, musicians are free to arrange the score to suit their requirements. There is no copyright on the melody and the words of the national anthem, the Act having declared them to be in the public domain."
If we couldn't have written (or reformed) a national anthem that was inclusive and accepting of the history that all Canadians have experienced (eg, our home on Native land), could we at least stop parading around like the folks who invented multi-culturalism?
Hey, I was at the game this afternoon. Had so much sun and so many beers and smelled so much Lighterfluid I blacked out once I got home. I have just now come to.
If Hinske steals that base in the 9th it's huge.
In the 10th, right after O-Dog was put in the game, a ground ball went right to the right of him. He didn't exactly bust his ass to get it. He kind of took a few steps towards it and gave up. It didn't seem out of his range to me. And some people sitting around me agreed. And boy did that make a difference. Ligtenberg got hammered after those grounders.
I got Carlos Tosca's autograph today!
It's so funny, I'm always riding his ass, then he's right in front of me and all I can say is 'thank you... sir'.
Also signing: Lilly, Batista, some guy (might have been Bob File?).
If Hinske steals that base in the 9th it's huge.
In the 10th, right after O-Dog was put in the game, a ground ball went right to the right of him. He didn't exactly bust his ass to get it. He kind of took a few steps towards it and gave up. It didn't seem out of his range to me. And some people sitting around me agreed. And boy did that make a difference. Ligtenberg got hammered after those grounders.
I got Carlos Tosca's autograph today!
It's so funny, I'm always riding his ass, then he's right in front of me and all I can say is 'thank you... sir'.
Also signing: Lilly, Batista, some guy (might have been Bob File?).
It's so funny, I'm always riding his ass, then he's right in front of me and all I can say is 'thank you... sir'.
The keyboard is mightier :-)
...I've had a few similar experiences with politicians. When I met Paul Martin, even given the chance for a conversation, I was far more polite than I ever intended to be (though it sure didn't end with, "thank you, sir").
The keyboard is mightier :-)
...I've had a few similar experiences with politicians. When I met Paul Martin, even given the chance for a conversation, I was far more polite than I ever intended to be (though it sure didn't end with, "thank you, sir").
I can't find my lyrics, but if I could make two changes to Mick's, I would accept his version.
But that's quite good, Mick. I gotta say, I didn't expect an American to come up with a better version than what we already have. ;)
Here's the mix of Mick's ideas and my ideas:
O, Canada
Our home and native land
True patriot's love; together, we all stand
With glowing hearts we see the rise,
Of the true north strong and free
From far and wide,
O Canada, on guard we'll always be
God, keep our land glorious and free
O Canada, on guard we'll always be
O Canada, on guard we'll always be
And yes, I just typed "mix of Mick's".
But that's quite good, Mick. I gotta say, I didn't expect an American to come up with a better version than what we already have. ;)
Here's the mix of Mick's ideas and my ideas:
O, Canada
Our home and native land
True patriot's love; together, we all stand
With glowing hearts we see the rise,
Of the true north strong and free
From far and wide,
O Canada, on guard we'll always be
God, keep our land glorious and free
O Canada, on guard we'll always be
O Canada, on guard we'll always be
And yes, I just typed "mix of Mick's".
I agree with Thomas's point about Canadian patriotism. It has a far more hostile, holier-than-thou, tone than American patriotism. I had a friend visit me from the States and he was watching our beer commercials and he wasn't thrilled with them, eg: "Why don't I buy American beer?" Why the hostility? he asked.
It's really sad that Canadians have started to believe their own hype: as a polite nation and modest in patriotism. Once you believe you are these things, you become the opposite of them.
It's really sad that Canadians have started to believe their own hype: as a polite nation and modest in patriotism. Once you believe you are these things, you become the opposite of them.
(Yet another post)
Change "True patriot's love" to "True patriot love."
Change "True patriot's love" to "True patriot love."
I was far more polite than I ever intended to be
Agreed. I was really surprised that Tosca, Lilly, Batista signed everyone's autograph, it took them at least 20 minutes.
Then Tosca went back in the clubhouse and decided he hates Phelps more than Woodward. I would have liked to have seen at least the threat of some pop in the 6-hole in today's game.
Did we hear an explanation on the lineup change?
Agreed. I was really surprised that Tosca, Lilly, Batista signed everyone's autograph, it took them at least 20 minutes.
Then Tosca went back in the clubhouse and decided he hates Phelps more than Woodward. I would have liked to have seen at least the threat of some pop in the 6-hole in today's game.
Did we hear an explanation on the lineup change?
That has to be frustrating for Phelps. Finally a start at first: stiff neck. Stiff necks are so stupid too. I once got a stiff neck from putting a steering-wheel lock on my car. Or reaching for a Big Gulp too fast.
For Phelps, if you play with the stiff neck, make an error, you're never seeing first again. So I guess it was wise he sat out.
For Phelps, if you play with the stiff neck, make an error, you're never seeing first again. So I guess it was wise he sat out.
Rob, your version is significantly better.
I never could figure out people who screamed "political correctness" as a way of bashing inclusiveness ... it seems odd, especially in the context of a national anthem. But I digress.
And as for your "mix Mick's" punnage, last week I finally got around to setting up my Web domain and, while I finally opted for the safe route (my name), I briefly considered "micksedmessages.com" but was afraid nobody would get it and too many people would pronounce it mick-sed-messages. Such a thing as being too clever.
I never could figure out people who screamed "political correctness" as a way of bashing inclusiveness ... it seems odd, especially in the context of a national anthem. But I digress.
And as for your "mix Mick's" punnage, last week I finally got around to setting up my Web domain and, while I finally opted for the safe route (my name), I briefly considered "micksedmessages.com" but was afraid nobody would get it and too many people would pronounce it mick-sed-messages. Such a thing as being too clever.
http://me.woot.net
The natural deference we give to other humans in person just goes to show that the Internet is a license to be mean for some people. I've been trying to change the way I think about it ever since I said some very regrettable things to my best friend's girlfriend online (we patched it up shortly thereafter). Pretending that you're talking to a real person rather than just a computer helps.
The natural deference we give to other humans in person just goes to show that the Internet is a license to be mean for some people. I've been trying to change the way I think about it ever since I said some very regrettable things to my best friend's girlfriend online (we patched it up shortly thereafter). Pretending that you're talking to a real person rather than just a computer helps.
Yes, but it also makes for mighty dull conversation to be always saying: "Now don't get me wrong", "I know you're doing a great job but", "I like Tosca and he's a great guy but", "In a perfect world", etc.
It might just be easier to put the onus on readers not to overreact to what they read, rather than on the writers to always be on their tip-toes.
It might just be easier to put the onus on readers not to overreact to what they read, rather than on the writers to always be on their tip-toes.
When I met Paul Martin, even given the chance for a conversation, I was far more polite than I ever intended to be (though it sure didn't end with, "thank you, sir").
Heh. Most conversations that politicians have with ordinary folks end with "you can leave the money on the dresser". I'm sure that A did a darn sight better.
eg, our home on Native land
Pish and tosh. It is our home, and for many of us it is indeed our native land. This goes for Aboriginal people as much as it does for non-Aboriginals born in Canada. And frankly, even those born elsewhere who have subsequently settled here I (personally) would encourage to think of Canada as their native land.
Of course, my defense doesn't address what I think is the main problem with the anthem, which is that (putting my biases aside) it's not very good, accurate or stirring and it gives too many props to God... even (in the French version) the Christian God.
the Internet is a license to be mean for some people
Is it? Cool, thanks!
It's really sad that Canadians have started to believe their own hype: as a polite nation and modest in patriotism. Once you believe you are these things, you become the opposite of them.
All myths about nationality are the kiss of death. A lot of it is harmless and rather silly bumf (viz. the old joke about Heaven having English police, Italian lovers, French cooks and German bureaucracy and Hell having English cooks, French bureaucracy, German lovers and Italian police) but most nationalistic stereotypes do exactly that... they act as a buffer or excuse for bad behaviour. Just to give an example, English myths about fair play and the rule of law allowed not just paternalism but totalitarian attitudes to run rampant during colonial rule in many places. Likewise French myths about being an independent power in world affairs gives a lie to its obsequious provision of military might at the beck and call of Third World dictators.
America's now-smothering myth that it is a beacon of freedom (it did not feel that way about itself during its open-door days) and a neutral, disinterested, self-sacrificing policeman to the world may be starting to undo it.
Canadians, as you say, are starting to believe their own hype about a nation of polite, quiet peacekeepers. Not only is it unfiltered raw sewage, it's consistently trotted out as a cover for bad behaviour, whether it be flag-waving jingoism at home, or a cold shoulder of non-participation to the rest of the world on the international stage.
This comment is too long, and much too cranky. Please ignore it at your convenience.
Heh. Most conversations that politicians have with ordinary folks end with "you can leave the money on the dresser". I'm sure that A did a darn sight better.
eg, our home on Native land
Pish and tosh. It is our home, and for many of us it is indeed our native land. This goes for Aboriginal people as much as it does for non-Aboriginals born in Canada. And frankly, even those born elsewhere who have subsequently settled here I (personally) would encourage to think of Canada as their native land.
Of course, my defense doesn't address what I think is the main problem with the anthem, which is that (putting my biases aside) it's not very good, accurate or stirring and it gives too many props to God... even (in the French version) the Christian God.
the Internet is a license to be mean for some people
Is it? Cool, thanks!
It's really sad that Canadians have started to believe their own hype: as a polite nation and modest in patriotism. Once you believe you are these things, you become the opposite of them.
All myths about nationality are the kiss of death. A lot of it is harmless and rather silly bumf (viz. the old joke about Heaven having English police, Italian lovers, French cooks and German bureaucracy and Hell having English cooks, French bureaucracy, German lovers and Italian police) but most nationalistic stereotypes do exactly that... they act as a buffer or excuse for bad behaviour. Just to give an example, English myths about fair play and the rule of law allowed not just paternalism but totalitarian attitudes to run rampant during colonial rule in many places. Likewise French myths about being an independent power in world affairs gives a lie to its obsequious provision of military might at the beck and call of Third World dictators.
America's now-smothering myth that it is a beacon of freedom (it did not feel that way about itself during its open-door days) and a neutral, disinterested, self-sacrificing policeman to the world may be starting to undo it.
Canadians, as you say, are starting to believe their own hype about a nation of polite, quiet peacekeepers. Not only is it unfiltered raw sewage, it's consistently trotted out as a cover for bad behaviour, whether it be flag-waving jingoism at home, or a cold shoulder of non-participation to the rest of the world on the international stage.
This comment is too long, and much too cranky. Please ignore it at your convenience.
I agree with Thomas's point about Canadian patriotism. It has a far more hostile, holier-than-thou, tone than American patriotism.
KT, I couldn't agree more. Canadian patriotism has always been about what we are not, instead of about what we are. In some ways it has always been the reflection of a deep fear of inferiority. In the first half of the 20th Century, it was "we are not British". Since then, it has been "we are not Americans". Creeping in even more in the past number of years is the logical next step: "we are better than...".
I think this attitude is one of the subtle, perhaps subconscious, reasons for the decline of the popularity of baseball in Canada. It is, after all, the American pastime. When I tell people I meet that I don't like hockey and do like baseball, I am usually challenged about my "Canadian-ness" or am accused of being a "closet American", often in a hostile manner.
KT, I couldn't agree more. Canadian patriotism has always been about what we are not, instead of about what we are. In some ways it has always been the reflection of a deep fear of inferiority. In the first half of the 20th Century, it was "we are not British". Since then, it has been "we are not Americans". Creeping in even more in the past number of years is the logical next step: "we are better than...".
I think this attitude is one of the subtle, perhaps subconscious, reasons for the decline of the popularity of baseball in Canada. It is, after all, the American pastime. When I tell people I meet that I don't like hockey and do like baseball, I am usually challenged about my "Canadian-ness" or am accused of being a "closet American", often in a hostile manner.
even (in the French version) the Christian God.
What I love most about the two versions of our anthem is that the English one seems all about what we do for Canada, while the French one is about what Canada does for us... :)
What I love most about the two versions of our anthem is that the English one seems all about what we do for Canada, while the French one is about what Canada does for us... :)
Why update the vocabulary of a national anthem? That's like re-writing Shakespeare to make it sound like it was written by Marlon Brando. As far as "problems" go this is a complete non-startre.
I hate that "why don't I drink American beer" ad. It smacks of the kind of exclusionism that we ridicule. It's also funny as hell since the company is now at least partly American.
I despise that ad as well. It's downright bigoted and makes Canadians look like jerks.
Inspired by this wave of patriotism discussion, I looked around my room for anything that was made in Canada.
Here are my results:
- a Roots backpack
That is all.
Here are my results:
- a Roots backpack
That is all.
And yes, my hate for that Molson ad knows no end as well. It seems to be a common theme here.
I hate that "why don't I drink American beer" ad.
It gives me something to aspire never to be. Almost everyone loved the "Joe Canadian" ads because they seemed heartfelt. These ones are calculated, cynical, crass and slick. Perfect for a beer company.
It gives me something to aspire never to be. Almost everyone loved the "Joe Canadian" ads because they seemed heartfelt. These ones are calculated, cynical, crass and slick. Perfect for a beer company.
Why update the vocabulary of a national anthem? That's like re-writing Shakespeare to make it sound like it was written by Marlon Brando.
To use a Craigism, pish and tosh.
A national anthem, as I understand it, is meant to represent the nation as it stands in the current moment of history, not to be a historical revisitation (which is why "The Star-Spangled Banner" is such a horrible choice for an anthem by the USA).
Shakespeare's work is meant to be ... well, Shakespeare's work, not part of the public domain, not updateable. Same reason I don't stretch inclusivity to the maleness of the supernatural in the Jewish and Christian Scriptures; those were written to represent the historical moment of the time, which happened to be ultra-patriarchal.
But an anthem? I just don't see it in that context. When the USA Men's Basketball team is receiving their bronze medals in Greece this month, why would the song blare, "... through the perilous fight, o'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming? And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air ..."
That's hideous in the current world geopolitical context. It should be changed. It should probably require an act of Congress/Parliament/insert your country of choice's governing body here, but an anthem needs to be malleable. Not at all like literature. Which, incidentally, is updated all the time -- just called something different. I'd love to know Bill Shakespeare's take on Kiss Me Kate or West Side Story.
To use a Craigism, pish and tosh.
A national anthem, as I understand it, is meant to represent the nation as it stands in the current moment of history, not to be a historical revisitation (which is why "The Star-Spangled Banner" is such a horrible choice for an anthem by the USA).
Shakespeare's work is meant to be ... well, Shakespeare's work, not part of the public domain, not updateable. Same reason I don't stretch inclusivity to the maleness of the supernatural in the Jewish and Christian Scriptures; those were written to represent the historical moment of the time, which happened to be ultra-patriarchal.
But an anthem? I just don't see it in that context. When the USA Men's Basketball team is receiving their bronze medals in Greece this month, why would the song blare, "... through the perilous fight, o'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming? And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air ..."
That's hideous in the current world geopolitical context. It should be changed. It should probably require an act of Congress/Parliament/insert your country of choice's governing body here, but an anthem needs to be malleable. Not at all like literature. Which, incidentally, is updated all the time -- just called something different. I'd love to know Bill Shakespeare's take on Kiss Me Kate or West Side Story.
A national anthem, as I understand it, is meant to represent the nation as it stands in the current moment of history,
I don't agree.
I don't agree.
If you want to change the anthem completely, that's fine with me. But changing "thee" to "you" seems stupid to me.
If you want to change the anthem completely, that's fine with me. But changing "thee" to "you" seems stupid to me.
If you looked at my version, you would see that it does not have the word "thee" changed into the word "you" anywhere in the song. I simply altered the lyrics while keeping the sounds the same (i.e. ending on the "ee" sound).
And, if we "change the anthem completely", we would probably be updating the vocabulary, which, apparently, is not a good thing.
If you looked at my version, you would see that it does not have the word "thee" changed into the word "you" anywhere in the song. I simply altered the lyrics while keeping the sounds the same (i.e. ending on the "ee" sound).
And, if we "change the anthem completely", we would probably be updating the vocabulary, which, apparently, is not a good thing.
Changing the anthem completely would entail modern vocabulary. What I object to is sprucing up an existing version by adding modern voabulary without changing the substance of the anthem.
By way of analogy... I don't like the idea of colourising an old black and white film, but if someone wants to do a significantly different version of Hamlet (as Kurosawa did with "Ran") then I have no problems with that as long as it's skillfully done.
By way of analogy... I don't like the idea of colourising an old black and white film, but if someone wants to do a significantly different version of Hamlet (as Kurosawa did with "Ran") then I have no problems with that as long as it's skillfully done.