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Did we give up?
But we always worked things out
And all my doubts and fears
Kept me wondering, yeah
If i'd always, always be in love

Let's look a the positives from yesterday:
The Jays got out to an early 4-0 lead
Menechino has a 0.00 ERA

If you want to know more you can read the game stories:
Jays left stranded vs. Yanks - Fordin
Yanks jolt Jays for nine in ninth - Ryan
Blue Jays hit bottom - Rutsey
Bronx Bombers hammer Blue Jays - Millson

Catcher has different take - Fordin
Mixup caps off bad day - Rutsey

* Rich Griffin is fired up today in Jays making it easy for Yanks to hurt 'em.

Reasons to get mad as a fan? There was Alex Rodriguez, the first to cross the plate ahead of Ruben Sierra's grand slam, waving towards Reed Johnson, who flipped the ball into the stands, already calling for the 300th home run ball to be retrieved for his teammate. Obviously, individual milestones were uppermost in Yankee minds, not the game. Do that pseudo-leadership crap from the dugout with a phone call. You're competing.

A-Rod stepped in for the first time since leading the call for Sierra's memento. Was he forced to move his feet or lean back ... or worry about anything? Nope. He smoked a Ligtenberg pitch into the stands. That was the end of the reliever's horrendous day.

* Today's Game - Mussina vs. Batista, 1:05 pm. I'll predict less than 7 total runs today.
Sunday Roundup - How many times | 26 comments | Create New Account
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_lurker - Sunday, August 29 2004 @ 09:22 AM EDT (#21309) #
Didn't see what A-Rod did exactly but I was still thinking the same thing watching that ninth inning. Not even a brushback pitch. I actually thought Menechino was brought in to nail someone as Lightenberg "sissed out". But nope.

A-Rod generally annoys me with his little antics. The other day Zaun blocked the plate on him and after he slid he reacted with a swipe at Zaun. Whenever he gets hit he acts like a big baby too. The guy has a real "biatch" streak in him, for lack of a better word.
Pistol - Sunday, August 29 2004 @ 10:07 AM EDT (#21310) #
COMN for Gammons Notes.

The first name one hears in managerial speculation is Anaheim bench coach Joe Maddon, with the Blue Jays as well as, if there are changes, the Mets and Mariners.
_mathesond - Sunday, August 29 2004 @ 11:04 AM EDT (#21311) #
It Ain't Over until Might Mouse gets to pitch.
Or Lenny Kravitz
_DaveInNYC - Sunday, August 29 2004 @ 11:15 AM EDT (#21312) #
In order for the Jays to even have a chance in this game, Batista can't walk more than 1 or 2 batters. If he has a Justin Miller type outing, the Jays are done for. The Yankees mash, so you can't just give them free baserunners.
Pistol - Sunday, August 29 2004 @ 11:41 AM EDT (#21313) #
Apparently mathesond is the only one who can figure out my lyrics. Nice job once again.
_Matt - Sunday, August 29 2004 @ 11:46 AM EDT (#21314) #
Boy, it's just no fun watching your team get owned.... none whatsoever.

I think my patience with a toronto 'small market' team is starting to wear thin after wtaching this year. I never thought I'd say it as I've been the one touting the rise of McGowan and Rios to all my friends this year but I must say I am finding the antics of ownership to be downright miserly.

I really just don't get it anymore. What is the problem with upping the ante in this market? We'll see attendance and interest stay somewhat consistent... Enough to maintain what we're doing right now... but they had the house virtually packed yesterday. Granted there were the odd new yorkers present but there were a ton of torontonians there to see there boys play the class of the league.
So why not try to become said class on our own?

We wouldn't have to spend quite as much as 120 mil or 190 mil, seeing as how we actually have a farm system, but I think it would do absolute wonders for the team if the nomar's and pedro's and beltran's of the upcoming 2005 FA market were to wear jays uniforms next year.

So, say JP got the nod to go on a splurge and acquire Martinez and Garciaparra and say whoever the top reliever on the market is so I guess I'll go with Percival just for the hell of it... That said prospect along with that of keeping delgado should tack on what 30-35 mil to expenses, but judging by the flocking hordes we see crashing the gates for when the stars show up from the other teams in our div I would venture to say that they would do the same on an actual coinsistent basis for our team and the money would be made back with interest. It doesn't have to be that trio of guys obviously, but I'd just like to see something....

I know numerous proponents of the current financial structure post/run this board... and I acknowledge that the current financial structure has SOME chance of yielding success down the road... but is it really unreasonable to ask that our club act more competitive (payroll wise) in the toughest division in the game?
_Paul D - Sunday, August 29 2004 @ 11:51 AM EDT (#21315) #
I was at yesterday's game (with the cheer club) and there wasn't the odd New Yorker present. My guess is that at least half the fans were from New York, if not more.
_6-4-3 - Sunday, August 29 2004 @ 12:00 PM EDT (#21316) #
With his sparkling performance yesterday, is there any way that we can change the old Hentgen sign to read "Menechino for closer"? Or, can we start up a more realistic but less charming "Menechino for ROOGY" campaign? This season needs a few more laughs.
_Cristian - Sunday, August 29 2004 @ 12:13 PM EDT (#21317) #
Boy, it's just no fun watching your team get owned.... none whatsoever

The Jays have been owned since their inception in 1977. While the Interbrew years were difficult to stomach, the Rogers ownership has been tolerable. In fact, nothing changed with the Jays ownership yesterday so I'm curious why Jays ownership set you off this morning.
_6-4-3 - Sunday, August 29 2004 @ 12:16 PM EDT (#21318) #
I'd peg the Yankee fans numbers at more than half. Maybe 60, 70%? I'd figure that the average "premium" game like yesterdays would get around 20000 Torontonians in, so with 43,500 tickets sold yesterday, I'd say maybe 55% of the fans were from New York. They were coming by the busload.

There is no way that spending 35 million to spend on Nomar, Pedro, Percival, and Delgado would possibly work. Let's say that all those signings actually cost that much, and the rest of the roster can be brought back for the same amount as we spent this year. That's highly unlikely (We'd certainly need to give Pedro a "Canadian bonus" to get him to play here . . . any of those other players, too. Okay, bump it up to 40 million). but I'll go along with it. Now, that adds 35,000,000 in salary expenses. Now, I'll roughly peg the average Skydome ticket cost at $20 (Doug Pappas used $18 in 2001, prices really haven't gone up that much since then, AFAIK). Okay, nowa booming team that is "contending" might draw, oh let's be optimistic and say 50% more than they do right now. That's around 27,000, including the increase. 27,000 x 20 x 80 = 43,000,000. So the Jays would make around 3,000,000. But wait, that's not right. The average ticket cost is around $20, the average revenue from that ticket is around $15. So, that gives you 32,400,000. The Jays have lost $7,600,000, and that's assuming that you get get Pedro, Carlos, Nomar, and Percival all for $40,000,000, all without increasing payroll on raises for guys like Hinske that are coming up. That's assuming that attendance would skyrocket by 50%. That's assuming that the team would contend. Given Pedro's struggles, Nomar's wrist, Troy's aging, Carlos' injuries and slumps, no money for more bullpen / starting help, Steinbrenner, the Red Sox, that's highly unlikely.

What you'd have there would be a major boondoggle that would do more harm than good. Even if it was possible, which it isn't.
Pistol - Sunday, August 29 2004 @ 12:53 PM EDT (#21319) #
I know numerous proponents of the current financial structure post/run this board.

I don't think that anyone associated with the site is a proponent of the current financial structure, it's just a matter of accepting that it is what it is.

If someone wanted to increase payroll to $80 million I can't imagine there'd be any objections to it.
_mathesond - Sunday, August 29 2004 @ 01:26 PM EDT (#21320) #
I suspect if the payroll was raised to $80M, there would be those who would complain that it wasn't enough
robertdudek - Sunday, August 29 2004 @ 01:57 PM EDT (#21321) #

You didn't factor in increased advertising revenue from higher ratings for the TV broadcast.

That said, an increase of 40 million isn't a good idea. But raising next year's payroll to 60 million (about 7 million more than planned as far as current reports go) could be just enough to plug the most glaring deficiencies:

1) More power bats and 2) One more solid veteran relief pitcher to go with Speier, Chulk and hopefully Frasor.
_Loveshack - Sunday, August 29 2004 @ 02:06 PM EDT (#21322) #
What the heck. Im listening to the FAN and they're playing a tribute to Tom Cheek that is apparently playing up on the Jumbotron right now. So how come Sportsnet isnt showing it?
_6-4-3 - Sunday, August 29 2004 @ 02:20 PM EDT (#21323) #
Fair enough. I was just doing it quickly to show that even if you could sign those players at that amount of money (which I don't think is remotely possible), and even if that did lead to a major increase in attendance, it wouldn't necessarily mean that Rogers would be raking in money.

Some extra money, to replace Delgado and shore up the bullpen, would probably be a good idea.
_Matt - Sunday, August 29 2004 @ 02:37 PM EDT (#21324) #
I know such complaints are nothing new... but its just really hard to fathom Toronto as a small market...
_Loveshack - Sunday, August 29 2004 @ 02:41 PM EDT (#21325) #
Way to go Sparky. 1-0 for the good guys.
Craig B - Sunday, August 29 2004 @ 06:21 PM EDT (#21326) #
I suspect if the payroll was raised to $80M, there would be those who would complain that it wasn't enough

The truly dismaying this is, that could potentially be right. I trust that it isn't, because I'm a strong believer that the rebuilding program of J.P. & Co. is delivering excellent value for money (and is going to continue to do so) but lots of teams, run by smart people, spend $80 million a year and reap nothing but disappointment.
Named For Hank - Sunday, August 29 2004 @ 10:01 PM EDT (#21327) #
6-4-3, we talked about Menechino For Closer at the game on Saturday when he was pitching. I'm totally going to make that sign for Tuesday. :)
_6-4-3 - Sunday, August 29 2004 @ 10:28 PM EDT (#21328) #
That's fantastic. Any chance you could bring it on Wednesday as well? I'm going to be at that game, and I'd get a kick out of seeing that sign.
_Loveshack - Monday, August 30 2004 @ 12:40 AM EDT (#21329) #
I know such complaints are nothing new... but its just really hard to fathom Toronto as a small market...

Technically speaking it's not really a small market, it's just a small baseball market, at least that's how I see it. There are lots of people in the Toronto area but not alot of core baseball fans. If you could make baseball "cool" again then there are enough people to pack the Skydome every night, but not enough people are big enough fans to come out and watch a game when the Jays arent the "in thing" to do anymore (for the record I think the "in thing" is currently the Argos). I firmly believe that once the Jays start winning again the crowds will come. But all this is just my take on the subject.
_James W - Monday, August 30 2004 @ 12:43 AM EDT (#21330) #
In Toronto, I think it's pretty much a given: Winning, or being the Leafs, is the "in thing". Nothing else is tolerated by the average fan.
Thomas - Monday, August 30 2004 @ 01:58 AM EDT (#21331) #
I was away and haven't seen the highlights of Menechino pitching, so I have a question I'd like answered.

How did Gibbons signify Menechino? Did he point into the dugout? Did Frank walk out with him? He couldn't ahve been warming up in the bullpen, I presume.
_GregH - Monday, August 30 2004 @ 07:07 AM EDT (#21332) #
How did Gibbons signify Menechino?

As I recall from TV, Gibbons walked out to the mound with Menechino trailing behind him.

There was a voice in the background (Tom Cheek?) saying "Menechino's going to pitch".

Watching, my sons and I couldn't believe it, but loved it when he got the third out. Long Live Mighty Mouse!
Named For Hank - Monday, August 30 2004 @ 07:10 AM EDT (#21333) #
6-4-3, I'll be coming late to Wednesday's game, so the sign will either arrive after 8:30 or I'll leave it with another Cheer Clubber. Regardless, it'll be there.
_6-4-3 - Monday, August 30 2004 @ 09:16 AM EDT (#21334) #
That's great, thanks. I'll make sure to look for it.
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