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As October begins, the Blue Jays return to Toronto to start their last home series of the year. Less than six months ago, they were about to start their first Skydome series of 2004, against the lowly Detroit Tigers. Attitudes and expectations could not be more different today than they were then.

Here's what one optimistic Jays fan wrote just before Roy Halladay took the hill against the Tigers April 5:

The Blue Jays are, by consensus opinion, a better team than the one that ended 2003 -- maybe a whole lot better. The playoffs are a goal, but still a distant one. The team's primary competition for that goal are the Yankees and Red Sox, as well as wild-card contenders like Anaheim and Oakland. ... There will be no better time for this organization to make its mark on the sporting landscape than right now.

The Tigers? They're at 71-88, 5 1/2 games better in the standings than Toronto.

Here's the Blue Jays' Opening Day lineup, versus tonight's version:

April 5
R Johnson
F Catalanotto
V Wells
C Delgado
J Phelps
E Hinske
O Hudson
C Woodward
K Cash
R Halladay

October 1
R Adams
O Hudson
V Wells
C Delgado
A Rios
E Hinske
G Gross
G Quiroz
E Crozier
D Bush

That's 3 players in the same spots in the order, 1 player moved up to the #2 spot, and 6 players who started the year in the International League. That, my friends, is what you call major surgery; it's also what you call a watershed year in the team's evolution. Adams, Rios, Quiroz and Bush are all being counted on to be with the big-league club next Opening Day and beyond. Whatever else you can say about 2004, it brought the future to Toronto in one big hurry.

To say the least, 2004 did not turn out the way anyone expected for this club. And that doesn't just include enthusiastic fanboys: a number of mainstream prognosticators figured the Jays could make a move this year. What went wrong, and whether it will improve next year, is a subject you can expect to see discussed in the local media for the next several days. Taking a wild guess, the analyses and predictions figure to mostly be on the wrong side of dire; in-depth and balanced might not be on the menu.

Accordingly, your 'umble servants at Batter's Box plan to fill the void, and will be working for the next several days preparing a substantial, in-depth, multi-part assessment of the Blue Jays in 2004 and beyond. We'll do our best to give a fair, accurate and realistic analysis of the team and the organization, and we'll post it for your discussion and debate. More details to come in the next several days.

Speaking of unfamiliar lineups, the Yankees are evidently treating this game like a spring training contest. Check out the starting nine:

K Lofton, cf
H Matsui, lf
J Giambi, dh
R Sierra, rf
T Clark, 1b
A Phillips, 3b
E Wilson, 2b
J Flaherty, c
F Escalona, ss
O Hernandez, p

If there was ever a night for the Jays to stick it to the playoff-bound pinstripers, this is it. Toronto handed El Duque his only loss of the season so far in their trip to Yankee Stadium last week; can they do it again?


Game 159: Back Where We Started From | 64 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
_My Names not Ry - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 06:41 PM EDT (#29601) #
Jobu- found some stuff you might be interested in, check your email, got some more info on uni numbers.
_Paul D - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 07:07 PM EDT (#29602) #
Is Quiroz ready to be the everyday catcher next year?
_Ryan Lind - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 07:12 PM EDT (#29603) #
I would say no.
Pistol - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 07:15 PM EDT (#29604) #
Matsui hit in the 1st inning, and then was replaced.

Why?

To keep his consectutive games played streak alive.
Pistol - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 07:20 PM EDT (#29605) #
Don't hang that crap to Vernon!
_CaramonLS - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 07:23 PM EDT (#29606) #
El Duque's breaking ball down in the zone is 2nd to none, but the 2 pitches hes been burned on hes left them really high up in the zone.
_Rob - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 07:30 PM EDT (#29607) #
In the same vein as "April vs October", check out the other Opening Day players (those no longer on the 40-man are in bold):

Rotation: Batista, Lilly, Hentgen, Towers
Bullpen: Lopez, Speier, Adams, Ligtenberg, Douglass, dlS, Kershner
Bench: Myers, Berg, Gomez, Pond
Also Phelps, the only member of the starting nine (or 10) no longer with the organization.

And that's a pretty cheap way for Matsui to keep his "Cheek Streak" going. Make him play five innings, at least. It can't be his nth game played if he never put a glove on.
_Ducey - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 07:30 PM EDT (#29608) #
the Yankees are evidently treating this game like a spring training contest

What do you mean, their 3rd baseman is hitting 1.000 !
_6-4-3 - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 07:36 PM EDT (#29609) #
Favourite story of the year, hands down:

The Yankees are considering using Tanyon Sturtze as a setup man, because Paul Quantrill has struggled lately. Joe Torre reportedly said "I like the option I have". I can't wait for his first playoff appearance.
_Tassle - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 07:36 PM EDT (#29610) #
What do you mean, their 3rd baseman is hitting 1.000

At one time, yeah. But he's gone into a bit of a slump. His batting average has dropped 500 points in the last 20 minutes. If he keeps this up he'll be off my keeper team.
_Thomas M - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 07:38 PM EDT (#29611) #
"What do you mean, their 3rd baseman is hitting 1.000"
Well Bush just dropped his average by 500 points and his OPS by 2.500!
Way to go :-)
_Thomas M - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 07:39 PM EDT (#29612) #
Damn, I am too slow for this world.
_CaramonLS - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 07:41 PM EDT (#29613) #
What a jerk that fan is.
_Elijah - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 07:44 PM EDT (#29614) #
All right, I am SICK and TIRED of idiots like Michael Kay continually thinking that "Moneyball" is only about drawing walks and waiting for the three-run homer. Every freakin' YES broadcast featuring the Jays and the Yankees, I have to hear this crap.

That is all for now.
_Tassle - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 07:46 PM EDT (#29615) #
Bush looks fantastic tonight. The competition is admittedly weak, but I'd love to see him end his rookie season on a high note.
_JackFoley - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 08:11 PM EDT (#29616) #
It looked like Matsui was injured and not removed for streak purposes.
_CaramonLS - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 08:22 PM EDT (#29617) #
Doh! Bush's no hitter was just broken by Wilson.

Doing good vs the AAA Yankees though.
_Thomas M - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 08:51 PM EDT (#29618) #
2nd RBI-Walk, has anyone spotted(?) JP smiling? :-)
_DaveInNYC - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 08:55 PM EDT (#29619) #
K # 7.....

FREE PIZZA!!!!!!!!!!!

AND THEN VERN FOLLOWS IT UP WITH ANOTHER OUTSTANDING GRAB!!
_DaveInNYC - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 09:11 PM EDT (#29620) #
God Bless Extra Innings!!

Angels/A's is being carried tonight! Could care less who wins, as I'm not a huge fan of either team, especially the A's. I don't know, I just see the love affair between people and Beane and the A's as annoying, not to mention that I'm sick of the Jays as being seen as an A's clone. I guess I'm just sick of hearing about them, and nothing's better than seeing them choke every year in the playoffs.

Baseball doesn't get much better than this. 3 games left to decide the AL West crown, Angels/A's, should be fun.
_Magpie - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 09:14 PM EDT (#29621) #
The Yankees are considering using Tanyon Sturtze as a setup man, because Paul Quantrill has struggled lately.

It hardly seemed possible, but Paul Quantrill has finally found a manager who could overwork him.

The Yankees have a better option than Sturtze, though. Guy named Steve Karsay.

Coach was here visiting for the first five innings - nice to meet at last. No cabal, huh?
_DaveInNYC - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 09:14 PM EDT (#29622) #
BTW, anyone know who's pitching Sunday's game?

Let Bush go 9!
_Scott Levy - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 09:19 PM EDT (#29623) #
YES network is really hyping up Gil Patterson, and supposedly he's likely to get let go in the off-season. Is that true? I hope not, unless we get Rick Peterson as a replacement.
_Thomas M - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 09:28 PM EDT (#29624) #
Two more for Carlos!
_Tassle - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 09:33 PM EDT (#29625) #
Double digit K's for the rook!
_Rob - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 09:36 PM EDT (#29626) #
There's always something worth watching even if the teams have nothing to play for. I don't care if Bush is facing the Columbus Clippers here, he's been great tonight.

And only half an hour until Game 1: Showdown in Oaktown!
_greenfrog - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 09:37 PM EDT (#29627) #
How impressive is that??!?? This kid is going to have a great off-season.
_DaveInNYC - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 09:37 PM EDT (#29628) #
MLB's probables has the epic battle of Brad Halsey versus Josh Towers scheduled. It notes that Towers can go on short rest because he only lasted 2 innings in his last start, and he's looking for his 10th win.

Yuck Yuck Yuck!!

Sunday could be a day of goodbyes for the Jays. First, the obvious one, Carlos Delgado will more than likely be playing his final game in a Jays uniform, hopefully the fans can honor the man with some standing o's before, and after the game, that would be lovely.

Also, it's rumored that Gil Patterson might be let go after the year and Josh Towers is no definite to be back with the team as the #5 guy.
_Rob - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 09:37 PM EDT (#29629) #
Apologies for the tired joke, but Bush wins in '04!
_CaramonLS - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 09:39 PM EDT (#29630) #
Bush looks like a lock for #3 starter next season behind Lily and Haladay.
Pistol - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 09:39 PM EDT (#29631) #
So in one of my fantasy leagues I picked up Bush after a few starts. This week I needed wins and strikeouts to try to get in the money. Given that he had struggled recently and hadn't struck out many I was thinking he was tired and that he would be a bad match for the Yankees.

9 shutout innings and 11 Ks later (10 swinging) turns out he might not have been as tired as I thought.
_Fozzy - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 09:41 PM EDT (#29632) #
What a game by the 'rook!

9IP, 2H, 0ER, 3BB, 11K, and he'll finish the season with a 3.69 ERA in the majors. That curve looked nothing short of deadly tonight; could we have a Roy Lite on our hands?

In honour, Fozzy plays Cake's "Going The Distance"
_Elijah - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 09:41 PM EDT (#29633) #
Good job by Bush. A two-hit shutout is still impressive even if you're not facing the Yankees #1 lineup.

As for Patterson not being back, I think that would be unfortunate. I'm wondering if Gibbons is retained whether he'll be able to pick his own coaching staff. It seems like Butterfield will be back no matter what (I haven't heard a bad word about him). Tosca really didn't pick his own people.

If Tosca gets the job in New York, I still think Peterson would have a job over there. If not, I think the Jays would have to take a look at him. But that's still premature.
_Fozzy - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#29634) #
Also, in honour of Bush's performance, I will play Butch Walker's "Lights Out". Dance with me people...
_6-4-3 - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 09:58 PM EDT (#29635) #
Yuck Yuck Yuck!!

Yes folks, it is fan appreciation day. Then again, these games never really produce great match-ups. To wit, the Red Sox are apparently thinking about starting Byung-Hyun Kim on the final day of the season.

It hasn't hit me that I might be going to see Delgado's last game as a Jay on Sunday. At least, it hadn't hit me until I read Gibbons comments about thinking about taking Delgado out to give him a standing O, and heard JP's comments during the game today. I'd heard him use the "We finished in last with him . . . " comment before, his use of the past-tense when discussing Delgado, and his talk about replacing his output has more or less convinced me that Carlos is gone. If he does go, Sunday will be the end of an era. It hasn't been a particularily happy era, but it's still a sad time.
_greenfrog - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 10:00 PM EDT (#29636) #
Is there some reason why Patterson would leave? Is his contract up?
_6-4-3 - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 10:08 PM EDT (#29637) #
I don't know about his contract (it might be up), but generally new managers like to have their own staffs. Gibbons basically said that in this quote:

"I'd like to have some say in it [the coaching staff] -- no question about it. You want to be comfortable with the guys around you, but we've got a good bunch here anyway. It's not like I'm trying to replace everybody or anything like that. You always want to be a part of it."
Pistol - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 10:25 PM EDT (#29638) #
Is there some reason why Patterson would leave?

How about ranking 13th of 14th in AL ERA this year?
_DaveInNYC - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 10:30 PM EDT (#29639) #
Let the thrashing of the Mighty A's begin!

3-0 Angels and the pounding of Mark Mulder continues!

LOVE IT! 2 OUT BUNT SCORES ANOTHER RUN!

4-0 Halos!!!
_Thomas M - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 10:31 PM EDT (#29640) #
Ichiro tied Sisler.
_6-4-3 - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 10:56 PM EDT (#29641) #
Ichiro just beat the record.
_Ryan Lind - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 10:59 PM EDT (#29642) #
Ground Ball up the middle. What else?

Congrats to Ichiro. At least the mariners have one gem in their awful season. ;)
_Matthew E - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 11:13 PM EDT (#29643) #
I was just at the Jays' website trying to buy tickets for Sunday. It didn't work. The Official Site is trying to tell me that there are no 500-level seats remaining for Sunday's game. I have a hard time believing that this is true. Confirm for me: this just means that the website doesn't have any left, right? The box office or the phone people still have more? I mean, I want to go to the game, but I'm on a budget here.
_Jobu - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 11:20 PM EDT (#29644) #
Ouch.. that could severly hamper Cheer Club plans if the Sunday news is true for us starpassers. But still, I dont see how it's possible. Especially when they can just open sections in the 500.
_6-4-3 - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 11:22 PM EDT (#29645) #
I wish that Ichiro's at bats had been broadcast live. TSN had good coverage (they were doing a bit on Ichiro tying the record when he actually broke it, and immediately showed the replay), but I wanted to see it, and the reaction (fireworks, him shaking the hands of Sistler's family, etc)

There still are some 500 level seats, but they're only (apparently) avaliable in singles. You have to type in "bluejays" in the coupon code section to get to the $2 seats.

If you need more than one, then yeah, you might have more luck with the box office.
_Vernons Biggest - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 11:27 PM EDT (#29646) #
I dont think Patterson is going anywhere. He is the type of pitcher you want to calm young pitchers down, and i think he has really helped alot of our pitching, eg: jason frasor, justin speier, and david bush. I think Riccardi values this.
_Matthew E - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 11:29 PM EDT (#29647) #
There still are some 500 level seats, but they're only (apparently) avaliable in singles. You have to type in "bluejays" in the coupon code section to get to the $2 seats.

If you need more than one, then yeah, you might have more luck with the box office.


I do need more than one. I don't really care about the two-dollar thing, but I'm not going all the way up to $24 or $42 or whatever the next available price rung is above $9. Can't do it. I'll phone them tomorrow and see.
_Jobu - Friday, October 01 2004 @ 11:31 PM EDT (#29648) #
Oh my....what the devil is the cheer club going to do? It appears as though we'll have a hard enough time getting Starpass tickets, let alone anywhere near each other.

Where are you NFH!?!? We need your advice!! Why have you forsaken us!?
_Ryan Lind - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 12:00 AM EDT (#29649) #
Over here, Sportsnet Pacific did show Ichiro's AB live, since the Mariners game is on. I just happened to turn the TV on while he was coming up to bat, so I saw the whole thing. Pretty cool, though maybe just a tad overblown. Nobody pays attention to hits in a season normally. Hell, Trivia: Who lead the AL in hits last year?

Highlight for answer [Vernon Wells]

Still a cool thing to see though. When George Sisler set the mark back in 1920, who knew that it would stand for 84 years before being broken by a Japanese guy playing in Seattle? Baseball has come a long way.
_Ron - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 12:00 AM EDT (#29650) #
I was lucky enough to see Ichiro's celebration live. The game is being shown on Sportsnet Pacific and I believe if you have the digital package you can see the game.
_steve - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 12:19 AM EDT (#29651) #
[Vernon Wells]
_Paul D - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 12:27 AM EDT (#29652) #
Wow Pistol, I thought you must have been wrong about where the Jays rank in ERA and was totally surprised to find out that you're right. (Well, I guess you could say they're tied for 12th, but whatever).
I had no idea that the pitching was that poor.
_Paul D - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 12:29 AM EDT (#29653) #
Oh yeah, I'm definitely cheering for Oakland. It blows that they're going to lose tonight. I don't know who I'm going to cheer for in the playoffs now... I don't really like any of the American League teams, so I guess I'll go with Minnesota (assuming Oakland doesn't make it).

In the National League I want to stay away from the Braves, Cubs and Astros. I'm hoping that both LA and SF make it. I'm kind of neutral on St. Louis.
_Ron - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 12:38 AM EDT (#29654) #
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=241001114
I was checking the ESPN boxscore and it said attendance was 48,914 for tonight. On TV it looked about 25,000. Did half of the people that bought tickets didn't show up or did the Jays badly boost up the attendance figure?
Joe - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 01:05 AM EDT (#29655) #
http://me.woot.net
There were more than 25k at the SkyDome today—maybe around 35k. It wasn't near the announced figure because, most likely, of no-shows (maybe Yankee fans who thought they'd clinch today or Jays fans who didn't make it out although they bought the $2 tickets).

It was a raucous crowd, though, made up mostly of Jays fans. An awesome game to attend.
_David A - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 01:18 AM EDT (#29656) #
don't know if this was mentioned anywhere, but Drew Barrymore and Jimmy Fallon were at tonight's game filming for a new movie about obsessed a Red Sox fan, Fever Pitch. It's being adapted from the book by Nick Hornby, author of High Fidelity and About a Boy. It was originally about Arsenal FC, so it'll be interesting to see how it translates to the Red Sox who have comparatively less to cheer about.
_Ron - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 01:22 AM EDT (#29657) #
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page3/story?page=farrelly/040929
COMN for Fever Pitch Info

I saw who the directors are .... and it will most likely suck.

The brothers haven't made a funny movie since 7 years ago.
_Magpie - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 01:39 AM EDT (#29658) #
Bush wins in '04!

I hope that's the last time I hear that...

Karsay's had an ERA over 5 during his minor league rehab, so I'm not sure he is a better option than Sturtze, as odd as that sounds.

For what its worth, one of the New York writers told me Karsay will not be on the post-season roster.

I had no idea that the pitching was that poor.

The starters are 8th in the league, the bullpen is 14th. The team ERA in August was over 6, the September ERA was just over 5. Bush might have actually got it below 5.
_Magpie - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 01:42 AM EDT (#29659) #
One more note - the Jays tonight said Ryan Glynn will start on Sunday.
_Jobu - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 01:46 AM EDT (#29660) #
Ryan Glynn will start on Sunday

[sarcasm] Hurray. [/sarcasm]
_R Billie - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 02:21 AM EDT (#29661) #
Wow. What a game. Bush shutout, 11 strikeouts, Yankee bench players lose, Jays score runs, free pizza confirmed by the 6th or 7th inning. The only thing missing was Delgado reaching 100 rbi while he had two opportunities with the bases loaded. Still managed two though and he now has 98 with a couple of games to go.

Thanks Jim for the ticket at a nice price. That was a lot of fun and a nice change from the 500 level view my season pass usually gives me.
_R Billie - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 02:26 AM EDT (#29662) #
Oh yeah. Nothing to do with the game but Drew Barrymore looked pretty good tonight. Also this girl a few rows ahead of me touched her nose with her tongue a few times during the game. That probably deserved an applause in itself. But the cheers rightfully went to David Bush. He might have had a no hitter had the fates been a bit kinder. The two singles might have been outs on a different day and there were two other hard hit balls that made the warning track, one that Wells made a very nice play on.
_Matthew E - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 11:50 AM EDT (#29663) #
By the way, I just successfully ordered two 500-level tickets over the phone for Sunday. The guy said the website was having problems for some reason. But tickets remain.
Thomas - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 12:33 PM EDT (#29664) #
Thanks for the update Matthew, good to know some still remain. We'll have to hope some remain tomorrow for Season's Pass holders.
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