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now I can't see anything.
I made a mistake, chalked it up to design.
I cracked through time/space, godless and dry.
I point my nose to the northern star,
and watch the decline from a hazy distance.

There's no debate, the Jays beat the Yankees behind Bush, 7-0.

Recaps:

* Bush seals first complete game - Fordin

Bush (5-4) didn't take names -- he just mowed down everyone that stepped in the batter's box. The first hit didn't come until the fifth inning, and that was a routine single through the right side of the infield. The next one came three innings later, but the Yanks (100-60) never really threatened to score.

* Bush for president - Rutsey

At the beginning of the game, one that ended with a 7-0 Jays victory over a New York squad that is resting up for the post-season, the Jays announced Delgado had donated a $1-million life insurance policy in his name to the Special Olympics Canada Foundation. He has been a supporter of the Special Olympics for the past seven years.

* Bush shuts down Yanks, Jays win 7-0 - Ryan

In his 16th start, Bush went only five batters over the minimum while striking out 11, a career best by four. He gave up a one-out single through the hole at second to Enrique Wilson in the fifth, a one-out bloop single to Dioner Navarro in the eighth. He also walked three, grazed a Yankee jersey with a pitch, threw 76 strikes in his 117 offerings and closed out his promising first taste at 5-4.

"Curveball, change, fastball which he was locating real well he had all the stuff tonight," said Guillermo Quiroz, his first-half catcher at Syracuse.



* Youngsters provide a dream - Wharnsby

An optimistic Toronto Blue Jays fan could temper the disappointment of a 93-loss season by glancing into a crystal ball and seeing that youngsters Dave Bush, Russ Adams and Alex Rios should bring plenty to next year's lineup.


Notes:

* Delgado waiting and seeing - Fordin

"Maybe next week I'll look back at all the good times I had in Toronto," he said on Friday. "Right now, there's no reason to be sentimental. I don't like to talk like I'm not going to be here."


* Jays have seen better days - Rutsey

Despite the fact the Jays are virtually at the break-even point, Rogers isn't about to boost the payroll from its $50-million level. A modest 10% boost would mean everything to Ricciardi and the team, give him some room to acquire four new players he desperately needs -- a first baseman, a designated hitter, a starting pitcher and a left-handed reliever who can get left-handers out.

Instead, Ricciardi will have to be creative, hope for miracles and try to patch holes on the cheap. It didn't work this year when Pat Hentgen was brought back and Terry Adams was signed to shore up the bullpen.

This team needs more than Paul Godfrey's spin. It needs money, an infusion of funds.

Question: If Rogers doesn't seem to care about the team, why should the fans?


* Gibbons fits bill for next season - Blair

John Gibbons may not be the man to lead the Toronto Blue Jays to the postseason, but he will be the manager next year.

Club sources say that on Monday, the team will announce that Gibbons is returning with an overhauled coaching staff. Ernie Whitt will be his bench coach and Brad Arnsberg, the Harley-Davidson-riding Triple-A pitching coach, will take over for Gil Patterson, who knows by now he won't be asked back.



* Report Card - Rutsey

School isn't quite out yet, but Mike Rutsey is handing out his grades on the team this year.

* Jays are not fool proof - Baker

While some Jays coaches and front office personnel privately say they can't compete without a payroll of $70-$85 million, it isn't forthcoming from team owner Rogers Communications. That forces those in charge to publicly tout the same party line after three straight third-place finishes and now a last-place result under Rogers.

"The plan for us hasn't changed one bit as far as I see it," said Jays president and CEO Paul Godfrey, caught in a squeeze play between an ownership seeking yearly profitability and a sport in which such indulgences aren't usually associated with winning. "When I hired J.P. (Ricciardi), it was always a five-year plan that was talked about. This was only the third year. All we can ask is for fans to be patient, for you (media) to be patient and judge us when the five years are up."


* Delgado shrugs off question of future - Millson

Considering the career Delgado has had with the Blue Jays -- 334 home runs and 1,051 runs batted in in nine full seasons and parts of three others -- there should be ovations that will reach a peak tomorrow as the series ends against the American League East-champion Yankees.

"It would be flattering," he said. "I mean it's a lot better than the alternative."


* Today's Game: Roy Halladay faces Kevin Brown at 4:05 today. It sounds like there won't be too many restrictions on Halladay today.
Saturday Roundup - I didn't wear glasses cause I thought it might rain. | 53 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
_Moffatt - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 09:22 AM EDT (#29416) #
You'll have to ask the Angels how the West Was Won. I'm sure during their REM sleep they'll figure out where it got them.
Pistol - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 09:28 AM EDT (#29417) #
Geez. I thought that was a tough one (yet appropriate).

Kudos to Mike for getting REM's 'How the West Was Won and Where it Got Us'. Feel free to give yourself some cuttlefish.
_Moffatt - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 09:44 AM EDT (#29418) #
Geez. I thought that was a tough one (yet appropriate).

It was tough. Hannah quite likes REM, so I hear a lot of them. :)

I've always wanted to win the Roundup song of the day. It's fun being on the other side of the fence.

I'll be at today's game at the invitation of my sister. Can't wait to go! If I hear/see the Cheer Clubbers I'll try to stop by sometime in the middle innings and say hi.
_Jim - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 09:57 AM EDT (#29419) #
The YES Network is something else. If you don't have to watch that piece of trash regularly, thank a higher power. Kay spent the last 4 innings blabbing about how it was a AAA lineup that the Jays were beating. It's was quite obvious that the Yankee playoff lineup was nowhere to be found. It was just annoying that he continued to make the point over and over. Yankee fans are obnoxious and annoying, but they aren't so stupid that they need to be reminded 15 times that when Escalona and Crosby aren't Sheffield and Jeter.
_Urooj - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 11:08 AM EDT (#29420) #
New Yorkers are arrogant in general, they overrate all their shitty teams like the Rangers and Knicks, it's nothing new, too bad Steinbrenner will have to through another hissy fit this year because the Yankees will not win it all.
_Jobu - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 11:27 AM EDT (#29421) #
Need I remind a certain 5 tool radio host of a promise...?

Heck, I'll even mention it to him when the Jays get home from Baltimore, see what he thinks.

So, who will be in the 500s for todays game?
Thomas - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 12:50 PM EDT (#29422) #
Is any channel showing the A's/Angels game today? Is there anywhere one could watch that decisive matchup?
Gerry - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 01:02 PM EDT (#29423) #
I saw a number of Delgado interviews yesterday and I am sure he is gone. On the Score interview he was saying why should he take a home town discount, it should be the other way around, and he thinks he is still going to get as much money as he did last time.

I think Carlos will look for a 4 year $60 mil deal, the Jays will offer single digits per Ricciardi so bye bye Carlos.
_Gwyn - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 01:23 PM EDT (#29424) #
Thomas - mlb.com video has a $2.95 a day deal on at the moment. That might be you're best bet.
_6-4-3 - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 02:02 PM EDT (#29425) #
I don't think that Anaheim / Oakland will be on, but right now, Fox has a good Chicago / Atlanta game on. The Cubs were pressing in the first, but Eli Marrerro gunned a runner out at the plate. The Cubs were pressing in the second, but Andruw Jones made a jumping catch at the ivy to save a run.

Still, I'd rather have a chance to watch either of the Oakland games. I'm not sure how rights issues work, but it's crazy that there could be Washburn vs Hudson for the playoffs tommorow at 4, and no-one will be showing it.
_Scott Levy - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#29426) #
I saw a number of Delgado interviews yesterday and I am sure he is gone. On the Score interview he was saying why should he take a home town discount, it should be the other way around, and he thinks he is still going to get as much money as he did last time.

Hmmm, yeah Carlos, why take a hometown discount when the team has had to spend 40% of the freakin' payroll for you over the last two years? Or when the team has had to penny pinch because a certain player was making nearly 20 million a season on a 50 million dollar payroll?

Carlos is a great person and a great player, but his lack of loyalty is extremely disheartening. Yeah, he's a free agent and it's his right to do what he's doing, just like it was his right to veto a trade to a contender so the team couldn't get anything in return for him. Fine. It's just this spoiled brat attitude athletes have that pisses me off, especially from a player I admire like Delgado. If he really said it should be the other way around, and Toronto should again pony up 30-40% of the budget to keep a guy who has only had two +1.000 OPS seasons in his nine year full-time career, than I've lost some respect for him. But it's his right to get paid as much as he wants, and I hope he's happy when he gets that money from Baltimore (yes, put it in writing, he's an Oriole next year).

Am I overreacting? Probably. I'd still give him a standing ovation tomorrow afternoon, but it's time for the franchise to move on if his demands are the way it has been described. Thanks for the gratitude, Carlos.
_Dan - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 02:32 PM EDT (#29427) #
I agree with all that you said about Carlos but maybe the Blue Jays will be better off spreading that money around.

Anyways, has Adams shown enough this month that he can be our everyday shortstop for next year? I think he can as long as he becomes a bit more consistent with the arm.
_Ron - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 02:35 PM EDT (#29428) #
Great interview on the Score. Carlos also said Rogers needs to increase the payroll if the Jays want to win. Without that he said the Jays need all-stars to come up through the system or players to have big seasons in order to win. Funny how Doc, Wells, and Delgado all had monster seasons last year and still the Jays were nowhere near a playoff spot.
_Paul D - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 02:54 PM EDT (#29429) #
Wow Scott, I really disagree with you.
It's not Carlos' fault that the Jays are overpaying him, and he shouldn't feel any responsibility towards them because of that. It's also not his fault that they gave him a no trade clause.
_Ryan Lind - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 02:55 PM EDT (#29430) #
All Adams had to do to win the spot next year was play better than Woodward. So far, so good.
_CaramonLS - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 02:57 PM EDT (#29431) #
Well... Delgado is definately talking like he wont be back next year. Being critical of the organization already and saying he shouldn't take a home town discount? Nice Carlos thats really classy.

Makes me wish your stupid ass had waived the no-trade clause so you could be shipped out at the deadline. At least we could have got something which resembled a prospect - nope you felt like being selfish for the rest of the year and didn't want increased expectations on you you sad sack of crap.

You don't give a fuck about this organization. If you did you would have accepted the trade to a contender to help out the Jays, then considered resigning with them in the off season. All this talk I hear from you, you are just looking for another big score.
_Magpie - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 02:58 PM EDT (#29432) #
his lack of loyalty

How come athletes are the only ones who are expected to be loyal?
_Andrew K - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 03:06 PM EDT (#29433) #
Hahaha, I've just been watching the Cubs game and the commentators (dunno who they are, I'm not a habitual Cubs watcher) were going on about little ball: why can't players bunt any more, too many games lost by one run, if you have to wait for the three-run homer, you never score anything, etc etc.

And, on cue, Alou hits a three-run homer.
_Peter - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#29434) #
I don't know why we are still discussing the fate of Delgado. It has been obvious he is not returning since mid season. I think one of the reasons JP temporarily lost a little enthusiasm is because he expected, perhaps misguidedly, that he would get a couple of prospects in a trade to speed up the rebuilding.
I think the rebuilding process can proceed better without Carlos. It didn't hurt the A's much to lose Giambi. It helped Seattle to lose Griffey and Arod and obviously did the same for Texas. Cleveland's rebuilding is going just fine without Thome and Philly is already regretting the contract. Carlos is a complete fool if he thinks he will get anywhere near his present contract. 10-12 if he is luicky- very lucky.
The Jays are better to spread the money around. They must build a consistent batting order that is not dependent on any one player and that has no black holes. There is no way to move forward until Carlos and his onerous contract are gone. Even 10 mil would not be suitable for a rebuilding team. I agree with those who do not favour any budget increase now other than maybe to 52 mil. Save it till it will mean something, maybe by 07 and I'm sure ownwrship will approve at least a 10 mil increase which will work well as most other teams are still coming down. Anyone who has studied the cyclical nature of baseball or who know a history of the Yanks is aware that they are teetering on the brink of an abysss akin to the early 80's when they fell from 1st to last and spent some years in the basement, like 3 or 4 though I stand to be corrected on the exact number. Three years hence is just about the right timing for the Jays to make a move and with the rebuilding job done correctly with a real chance to stay in contention for a long time which I believe is the goal of the present management.

On the subject of coaches, it appears Patterson is gone, justifiably so. He may be a great guy but he hasn't done the job. Barnett is in the same boat. I will be surprised if he is renewed when his contract is up in December.
_6-4-3 - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#29435) #
What's even funnier about that is that at the same time that they were talking about how the Cubs are failing because they can't play smallball, they were going on about Earl Weaver (I'm pretty sure they used the phrase "Great, great manager", but I'm not sure, I'm only half watching it). Earlier in the game, they were bashing the Cubs' decision to bunt late yesterday.
_Ryan Lind - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#29436) #
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=241002116
WTF. When did Jose Cruz get dealt to Atlanta, and why did he pitch an inning? [COMN]
_Magpie - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#29437) #
When did Jose Cruz get dealt to Atlanta, and why did he pitch an inning?

Cruz and Steve Smyth were traded in the spring for Andy Pratt (presumably not the singer) and Richard Lewis (presumably not the comedian)
_Rob - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 03:22 PM EDT (#29438) #
Heh. Jose Cruz. Maybe DeWayne Wise will pitch the eighth.

(It's Juan Cruz, but that Yahoo error is still funny.)
_Ryan Lind - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 03:23 PM EDT (#29439) #
Oh my, the Cubs are imploding again.
_Mylegacy - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 03:31 PM EDT (#29440) #
Delgad-o is finit-o. He doesn't owe us anything. Carlos, I'll be a fan of yours wherever you go UNLESS it's to either EVIL EMPIRE. In which case a pox on you and yours unto the 9th generation. (Bet that scared him!)

NOW, IMHO I expect Hudson will be traded this off season. WHY? Because he's the only GREAT player we have with a potentially great replacemnt coming up the ladder - Aaron Hill. Some team will be pepared to give up quality for quality to get Hudson. If JP can get a "real" closer or "real" set-up man for him he might pull the trigger. I think the resigning - or the not resigning - of Speier will be the sign that Hudson will have to be / not be marketed.

Anyone agree - disagree?
_Rob - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 03:33 PM EDT (#29441) #
http://www.thegamelive.com/baseballmlb.html#atl
Cool. I actually found a radio link for the Braves-Cubs game (COMN). It's the WVWI feed from St. Thomas of the U.S. Virgin Islands, so I guess the MLB blackout only applies to the Great 48. That explains why I can listen to the Jays online, but I couldn't connect with any of the Oakland/Anaheim links.
_Scott Levy - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 03:33 PM EDT (#29442) #
It's not Carlos' fault that the Jays are overpaying him, and he shouldn't feel any responsibility towards them because of that. It's also not his fault that they gave him a no trade clause.

I don't think Gord Ash came up with the figure, length of contract, and no trade clause out of the goodness of his heart. Carlos had an outclause which he exercised after his career year, and the team had to re-sign him or lose him. Carlos and his agent had the leverage, and he used it to get what he wanted out of a team that had new owners that wanted to make an impact and money to spend. Good for him. He's a smart business man.

Now the time comes when he's a free agent again, after his worst season in six years, and he's talking about the Jays owing HIM a huge offer, while a hometown discount is some sort of anti-christ suggestion. His contract alone made up nearly 40% of the team budget. Ricciardi for two years had to go to the bargain bin because a certain player was eating up too much of the payroll. When it comes time for Carlos to at least show some gratitude to the organization, he vetos a trade to a contender so he can heighten up his free agent value without the media circus and microscopic analysis of his game that comes with a playoff race. Now he talks about going to a contender, when he could have easily done so in July. Instead of possibly getting a prospect or two to help in the future, the Blue Jays are left with nothing, and J.P. Ricciardi and Ted Rogers will be painted as the bad guys for letting Carlos go.

This team is better off without Delgado the more I think about it. Let him get his standing O for his on-field contributions and off-field community work, but his value to me took a huge hit with this.

Low-ball away J.P.
_Magpie - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 03:36 PM EDT (#29443) #
Heh. Jose Cruz.

Oh, I get it now.

It didn't hurt the A's much to lose Giambi.

It hurt, though. It always hurts when they player you lose is better than whatever you replace him with.

Carlos is a complete fool if he thinks he will get anywhere near his present contract.

He'd be a bigger fool if he didn't at least try to get as close to it as possible. This is almost certainly his last big contract. He'd better make it count.

the Yanks... are teetering on the brink of an abysss akin to the early 80's when they fell from 1st to last

It was actually the late 80s when it all caught up to them - 1989 through 1992. They hit last place in 1990. It was Buck Showalter and the Steinbrenner suspension that turned that ship around. But they are going in the same direction - a bunch of past their prime stars, all getting old at once, desperately bringing in multiple free agents to keep it all afloat.
_CaramonLS - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 03:36 PM EDT (#29444) #
A starting all star-gold glove 2nd baseman on TURF is not worth a setup man.

Only way I would consider trading Hudson is if we could get a top closer for him and get them to take on Baustita's albatross of a salary, allowing us more wiggle room in the off season.

Then again I haven't seen enough out of hill (or anything aside from some minor league awards.)
_Ryan Lind - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 03:37 PM EDT (#29445) #
I agree, MyLegacy. Whenever JP talks about Hudson, I get the feeling that Hudson is not in his long-term plans, for whatever reason. I think he's been shopped before, and will be shopped again. In most ways, I hope you and I are wrong, because I love the O-Dog, but you must trade something to get something.

Personally, I would prefer they deal Hinske, but that's not going to happen.
_The Original Ry - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 03:39 PM EDT (#29446) #
his lack of loyalty

How come athletes are the only ones who are expected to be loyal?


Not only that, people don't even use the loyalty argument consistently on players. How many Blue Jays fans were complaining about Roger Clemens's lack of loyalty to the Boston Red Sox when he came to Toronto in December 1996?
_Jim - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 03:47 PM EDT (#29447) #
Tough crowd today.

'Baustita's albatross of a salary'

His salary is hardly going to stand in the way of JP inproving this team.

'When it comes time for Carlos to at least show some gratitude to the organization, he vetos a trade to a contender so he can heighten up his free agent value without the media circus and microscopic analysis of his game that comes with a playoff race.'

I think most people think that he HURT his free agent value by not moving. I have no idea, it most likely comes down to what happens in the playoffs and which teams feel they need an upgrade at first based on what happens in the next month or so.

'Hmmm, yeah Carlos, why take a hometown discount when the team has had to spend 40% of the freakin' payroll for you over the last two years? Or when the team has had to penny pinch because a certain player was making nearly 20 million a season on a 50 million dollar payroll? '

I'm confused as to why any of this is his problem. They offered him a contract, he signed it. He lived up to his end, he bashed for years before an injury hampered him for half of this season. He should go to free agency and get whatever he feels the best deal is for him.
_CaramonLS - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 03:51 PM EDT (#29448) #
Jim, in the small market of Baseball that is Toronto, Bautista's salary takes up 1/10th of the Jays payroll - thats a big chunk to someone that is not living up to expectations.

Or we can put it in these terms Jim. After raises, the spare "Carlos" money is roughly 9-10 million. How about a 50% raise on that? That is a HUGE deal to the team.
_Ryan Lind - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 03:53 PM EDT (#29449) #
I just have one thing to say:

THERE IS NO U IN BATISTA

That is all.
_CaramonLS - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 03:54 PM EDT (#29450) #
Well I get confused with Tony and Miguel.

So sue me.
_Magpie - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 03:59 PM EDT (#29451) #
How many Blue Jays fans were complaining about Roger Clemens's lack of loyalty to the Boston Red Sox when he came to Toronto in December 1996?

Two or three. Until he ripped off fifteen wins in a row.

For me, Exhibit A in the whole discussion of loyalty will always be Tom Henke.

After 1992, when Henke saved 34 games (and 5 more in the post-season) with an ERA of 2.26, he was a free agent. And wanted to return.

The team didn't want him back, and the fans didn't want him back either.

"We've got another guy whose younger, and cheaper and better. Thanks for being a great pitcher for eight years. Thanks for being a credit to the the game and the community and the organization. Now get the hell out of town."

I don't ever want to hear anybody give me that loyalty crap.

Its my secret theory that the Jays suffered karmic punishment for running Tom Henke out of town.
_Scott Levy - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 03:59 PM EDT (#29452) #
Not only that, people don't even use the loyalty argument consistently on players. How many Blue Jays fans were complaining about Roger Clemens's lack of loyalty to the Boston Red Sox when he came to Toronto in December 1996?

When J.P. Ricciardi publically says Delgado doesn't have it anymore, than it's comparable to the Clemens situation. Anyone in Clemens' shoes would have left Boston the way he was shown the door. What have the Jays done to make Carlos upset?

I'm confused as to why any of this is his problem. They offered him a contract, he signed it. He lived up to his end, he bashed for years before an injury hampered him for half of this season. He should go to free agency and get whatever he feels the best deal is for him.

My response was in response to Gerry's quote that Carlos said he wasn't looking for a hometown discount but that it should be the other way around, as if Toronto owes some big debt of gratitude to the man they grossly overpaid for 4 years.

Free agency gives Carlos the right to look out for himself. That's fine. I'm just disappointed in him the way he left, painting himself as some great hero that deserves to get paid. Frankly, if you candidly ask J.P. Ricciardi, he'll tell you Carlos was an albatross of a contract more than a hero, despite how good he was.

Let him get paid in Baltimore. Congrats to him.
_Rob - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 04:00 PM EDT (#29453) #
You mean Tony "Bautista"?
_Magpie - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 04:03 PM EDT (#29454) #
painting himself as some great hero

???
_The Original Ry - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 04:07 PM EDT (#29455) #
Not only that, people don't even use the loyalty argument consistently on players. How many Blue Jays fans were complaining about Roger Clemens's lack of loyalty to the Boston Red Sox when he came to Toronto in December 1996?

When J.P. Ricciardi publically says Delgado doesn't have it anymore, than it's comparable to the Clemens situation. Anyone in Clemens' shoes would have left Boston the way he was shown the door. What have the Jays done to make Carlos upset?


If you don't like the Clemens example, you can use just about any other free agent signing you want. People don't complain about a player's lack of loyalty when their favourite team is the one that benefits from it.
_Rob - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 04:10 PM EDT (#29456) #
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap?gid=241002109
This is bizarre. COMN:
MINNEAPOLIS (AP) -- The Minnesota Twins and Cleveland Indians were tied at 5-all after 11 innings Saturday when the game was suspended because the Metrodome field needed to be changed over for the later Penn State-Minnesota football game.

The Twins and Indians will resume at 1:10 p.m. Sunday, followed by the regularly scheduled season finale between the two teams.

Because of the football game, no inning could start after 2:30 p.m., and the 11th inning ended at 2:33. Penn State and Minnesota were to start at 7 p.m


The game started at 11:10 local time.
_Ron - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 04:10 PM EDT (#29457) #
Whenever JP talks about Hudson, I get the feeling that Hudson is not in his long-term plans, for whatever reason. I think he's been shopped before, and will be shopped again.

There were rumblings in the off-season (I believe reported by Gammons) that JP had offered O-Dog to the Brewers for Ben Sheets and to the M's for Rafael Soriano.
_Magpie - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 04:17 PM EDT (#29458) #
People don't complain about a player's lack of loyalty when their favourite team is the one that benefits from it.

I remember some Toronto media people (OK, Mike Hogan and Bob McCown) ripping Jack Morris for the rest of his career when he left Minnesota, his home town, to sign with Toronto.

Overlooking a) Morris just won the Twins a World Series, for crissakes; b) Morris was Exhibit A of Ballplayers Who Got Screwed By Ownership's Illegal Collusion in the late 1980s.
_Ryan Lind - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 04:17 PM EDT (#29459) #
Ruh-Roh

Say Bye-Bye, Cubbies.

Thank God for that. I don't know if I could put up with another overhyped RedSox/Cubs playoffs
_6-4-3 - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 04:32 PM EDT (#29460) #
There were rumblings in the off-season (I believe reported by Gammons) that JP had offered O-Dog to the Brewers for Ben Sheets and to the M's for Rafael Soriano.

I remember those rumors. I can understand JP shopping Orlando last off-season, but that Seattle trade makes no sense. I'm glad it didn't happen (what with Soriano's season-ending arm injury), but there's no way that the Mariners would trade for a second baseman, unless they wanted to move him somewhere.

Right now, there's talk of resigning Orlando and talk of trading him. You can defend either move, IMO, but I'd rather the Jays didn't lose both Delgado and Orlando in the same offseason, even if someone does dangle a proven closer at JP.

Say Bye-Bye, Cubbies.

Thank God for that. I don't know if I could put up with another overhyped RedSox/Cubs playoffs

Normally, I'd want the Cubs to be in the postseason, but ever since I read the story of the Cubs vs their announcer, and how Dusty and the Cubs GM sat down last week to tell him to stop criticising the team, they lost my support.
_Jim - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 04:36 PM EDT (#29461) #
'Bautista's salary takes up 1/10th of the Jays payroll - thats a big chunk to someone that is not living up to expectations.'

Thanks for the math lesson. Of course this was the deal that folks around here were applauding early in the year for being such great value.

He didn't produce this year, he could very well be worth 4.5MM or whatever exactly it is they pay him next year.
_Ron - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 04:40 PM EDT (#29462) #
Right now, there's talk of resigning Orlando and talk of trading him. You can defend either move, IMO, but I'd rather the Jays didn't lose both Delgado and Orlando in the same offseason, even if someone does dangle a proven closer at JP.

I love O-Dog but I don't know if his trade value will be any higher that what it will be after this season especially if he wins the Gold Glove.

He's inconsistent at the plate but he's improved from last season. I hope he stays in a Jays uni for a long time.
_6-4-3 - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 04:44 PM EDT (#29463) #
The Cubs were just eliminated.

I agree that if he wins a Gold Glove, his value will skyrocket. But he's improved (his terrible splits against lefthanders have vanished), and he's a bright young star that the team can hype.
_Ryan Lind - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 04:46 PM EDT (#29464) #
I think the best thing about the O-Dog's hitting is how he's improved against Lefties.

in 2003:

vs. RHP: .297/.356/.449 (374 AB's)
vs. LHP: .160/.222/.190 (100 AB's)

in 2004:

vs. RHP: .272/.346/.430 (349 AB's)
vs. LHP: .256/.302/.462 (117 AB's)

I don't know why this hasn't gotten too much attention, because that is a remarkable improvement.
_Paul D - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 04:54 PM EDT (#29465) #
I don't see Hudson being traded for a reliever. I can see him trading for a great young starter (someone who's a bit better than Sheets was last offseason). But there's no need to rush. If Hill looks to be a star, then maybe he moves to third base in Hinske can't perform.
_Stan - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 05:08 PM EDT (#29466) #
Carlos Delgado gave us all many thrilling moments over the years, but we still never really contended. Teams that didn't have Carlos were contending. He is not irreplaceable. Any savings that are left can be applied to at least 2 good players. But the Rogers boys have to be more generous in their budget and stop tieng J P's hands. I am afraid that any casual fan of the Jays will not want to come out to the game if there is no "big" name. Personally I am looking forward to the next few years.
_Willy - Saturday, October 02 2004 @ 05:36 PM EDT (#29467) #
I don't think we should pay too much attention to public statements about re-signings and 'interviews' by players or by team management appearing in the media : both sides are posturing just now. Who knows what the actual negotiations are? Or aren't.

As for Carlos, tell me a classier player who's ever worn a Jays' uniform? (Molitor's the only one I can think of who even comes close. And we didn't complain when he came here from Milwaukee.)
_Andrew S - Sunday, October 03 2004 @ 01:03 AM EDT (#29468) #
Hey, not all Jays' fans were running Henke out of hogtown. The loss of Henke really spelled the beginning of the loss of my baseball innocence.
Saturday Roundup - I didn't wear glasses cause I thought it might rain. | 53 comments | Create New Account
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