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Two teams - the Minnesota Twins and the Los Angeles Dodgers - face elimination today.

Atlanta and Houston are tied and although the Astros are at home, neither Clemens nor Oswalt takes the mound today. Should the Astros lose, will Garner start Clemens and Oswalt on short rest in Games 4 and 5?

Minnesota will almost certainly send Johan Santana to the mound today and Brad Radke tomorrow in New York if the Twins win Game 4. Both will be starting on short rest, but that's the only realistic hope Minnesota has. So far the series has been eerily similar to last year's ALDS.

Yesterday, it looked like an easy win for the Red Sox until Mike Timlin walked Darin Erstad after getting to a 1-2 count. He then grooved a pitch to Vladdy who tied the game. David Ortiz was the extra-inning hero - he hit a 2-run walkoff homerun off surprise reliever Jarrod Washburn to sink the Angels.
Division Series - Day 5 | 74 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Coach - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 01:08 PM EDT (#27291) #
Robert and I had great fun watching the Red Sox game yesterday. Kelvim performed pretty much as I expected, not quite $6 million worth, and things didnít work out for Washburn and Scioscia.

Everything in this postseason has gone according to my script so far. Iím rooting for the Cardinals, and hopeful that they will complete their own sweep tonight, but the Red Sox were my preseason pick because they could hit with anyone and had the best 1-2 starters in a short series. The way Arroyo is pitching, and with Lowe beefing up the bullpen, they have to be considered the favourites to go all the way.

Poor Silva was overmatched, so last night was lopsided -- what the hell was Torii Hunter thinking? -- but the Twins are far from dead; their lefty makes them the favourite today and Radke gives them a decent chance tomorrow. My heart is with the underdog, my brain said Yanks in five.

A rematch of last yearís ALCS isnít a bad thing. Once again, the "pox on both your houses" sentiment will arise among many fans, and I understand that feeling, but it will be dramatic and hugely popular, which can only be good for baseball. I donít hate either team, as I know (and like) Steinbrenner, Cashman and Torre, and I think Theo Epstein is doing a fantastic job.

Though we have several family commitments this weekend, and I may not have much Box access, I look forward to watching as much baseball as possible. This first game is a "who cares?" for me; the best result for a St. Louis fan is more bullpen-draining extra innings and a series that goes the limit. I think Houston would give the Cards a better fight, but I simply can't bring myself to pull for Atlanta, ever.
_CaramonLS - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 01:24 PM EDT (#27292) #
Byrd over Ortiz? This is crazy. (thompson just came out).

Ortiz is NOT a number 5 starter on Atlanta.
robertdudek - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 01:35 PM EDT (#27293) #
I think they'll go with Ortiz in game 4.
Coach - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 01:40 PM EDT (#27294) #
Crazy? Did you ever consider that Bobby Cox and Leo Mazzone might know quite a bit more about how good Ortiz is right now (not in July, or last year) than we do? Russ had a 6.62 ERA in August and 5.57 in September, walking more men than he struck out in both those months and giving up an alarming 17 HR, after allowing just 6 in the first four months. I assume that he's hurt, but trying to pitch through whatever it is. It's obvious that he's considered a last resort, and I'm not sure he'll go in Game 4 unless they win today.

Meanwhile, Byrd was a better pitcher down the stretch, with the exception of a meaningless start last Sunday. Since they had to rush one of them into service, he was the right call.
_CaramonLS - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 01:52 PM EDT (#27295) #
Guy has a rough spurt down the stretch and that totally knocks him off the chart?

He has had more playoff success than any of these other pitchers.
_Mike Wilner - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 01:59 PM EDT (#27296) #
Caramon is right, which is exactly why Ortiz will pitch tomorrow, whether Atlanta is up 2-1 or down 2-1.

Too bad for the Braves. ;-)
_Magpie - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#27297) #
Liam just pointed out that the Astros are the only team left in the playoffs who play in a park named after a corporation. (We could argue about St. Louis, but Busch was a man, who meddled with his team just like Steinbrenner - the corproration was named after him)

Anyway, I don't want a WS game played in Minute Maid Park. Not as bad as Enron, but still...

Go Braves!
Thomas - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#27298) #
I still can't believe Mike Scoscia went to Washburn last night. I was yelling at my TV that it was a terrible move, although I never expected a homer on the first pitch that he threw. K-Rod has just struck out Bellhorn and Manny and still looked extremely sharp. Washburn had been hit around in his first start and was in an unfamiliar role coming out of the bullpen. I'd have understood the move if Kevin Gregg was pitching, but not with K-Rod. Sometimes managers get too tied up in the lefty-lefty matchup. But that 7th-inning comeback by Anahiem turned it into a great game to watch.
_CaramonLS - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 02:22 PM EDT (#27299) #
Taking out K-Rod in favor of just about anyone is a bad move.
(He should definately be the closer next year).
Coach - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 02:38 PM EDT (#27300) #
Too bad for the Braves. ;-)

Agreed. They really don't have another choice tomorrow, unless it's to go with Juan Cruz for a 3-4 inning start. Considering how Ortiz has pitched lately, that makes this virtually a do-or-die game for Atlanta, who sure don't want to face Clemens tomorrow with elimination at stake. If it does go the limit, the Oswalt-Wright matchup favours Houston, but anything could happen.

It probably helps my Cards if the Braves win today, yet I'm still incapable of supporting them. Watching Larry fly out just now, my initial reaction was "good."
_CaramonLS - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 02:57 PM EDT (#27301) #
Coach look at the lines for Byrd and Wright... Chances are extremely good Ortiz has a line better than both of those guys when he starts game 4.
_Magpie - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#27302) #
Considering how Ortiz has pitched lately,

Ortiz has basically alternated between Good Start or Bad Start for the last month - he had three of each in September.

His last start of the season was very good - and this is probably bad news for the Braves. The last time he had back-to-back good starts was in July.
_CaramonLS - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 03:09 PM EDT (#27303) #
Wow is Backe ever feeding off that crowd.. absolutely Man handled Jones.
_Pete Warren - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 03:26 PM EDT (#27304) #
Anybody know when the 2005 tenative schedule will be released?
_CaramonLS - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 04:11 PM EDT (#27305) #
Springer tosses what? 4 straight fastballs to Jones... and leaves an 0-2 pitch out over the plate... what the heck was he thinking?
_Jim - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 04:13 PM EDT (#27306) #
I have a feeling the Sox are going to run the Yankees over if given the chance.

The division series so far have probably been the least interesting since their start in 95.
_JackFoley - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 05:18 PM EDT (#27307) #
I agree with Jim. Lots of 8-5, 8-3 games. Hopefully things even out in the LCS.
_Thomas M - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 05:34 PM EDT (#27308) #
I know it's the wrong place but I couldn't find a better one. I just looked at the AFL stats of "our" players: the three hitters all played in 2 out of the three games so far:

Aaron Hill(1 at SS 1 as DH):is 2-9 with 2 2B, 1 SB, 1 run+2 RBI
Big Vito ( 1 at 1B/1 DH):4-7 with 2 2B, 0 RBI but 3 runs and 1K
Man Strength Hattig (both at 3B): 1-7, 1 3B, 2 RBI, 1 run, 1 BB, 2K


J. Arnold: 2 IP, 4 hits, 3 R (1 ER), 0 BB, 1 K
F.Rosario: 3 Ip, 2 hits 0 R, 1 BB, 4 K
A. Peterson: 2 IP, 2 hits,1 R(0 ER), 1 BB, 3 K
_Thomas M - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 05:37 PM EDT (#27309) #
Rosario and Hill were named the Top pitcher/position player of the team by BA. COMN
_G.T. - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 05:52 PM EDT (#27310) #
So, annoyed by how Miguel Cairo seems to keep getting on base, I quickly looked him up on BBRef. I'd always thought he was a product of the Jays system. Guess not:

November 29, 1995: Traded by the Los Angeles Dodgers with Willis Otanez to the Seattle Mariners for Mike Blowers.

December 18, 1995: Traded by the Seattle Mariners with Bill Risley to the Toronto Blue Jays for Paul Menhart and Edwin Hurtado.

Another good Gordo trade, I guess.

This transaction certainly caught my eye:

March 28, 2001: Traded by the Oakland Athletics to the Chicago Cubs for Eric Hinske

Two years ago, I'd have looked at that and laughed. Now I can't help but think that Cairo's the better player, even if he had to change organizations eight times before really accomplishing anything...
_Jim - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 06:10 PM EDT (#27311) #
Thomas thanks for the link. The Twins are an amazing organization. If only they made decisions as well as they develop players. Dougie M over David Ortiz - nice decision.
Named For Hank - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 07:14 PM EDT (#27312) #
Did anyone else notice the Minnesota fans chanting O-VER-RA-TED at Derek Jeter in the seventh inning? It brought a little tear to my eye.

And what was with the Yankees first base coach not getting out of Morneau's way on that popup? What would have happened if Morneau had not been able to get to it because the Yankee coach stood in his way?
_Thomas M - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 07:23 PM EDT (#27313) #
You are very welcome, Jim. I can't think of a sport were player development is so unforseeable as in Baseball. So many players appeating out of nowhere. Mienkiewicz over Ortiz is a funny one but I wish the Jays had a similar First Baseman as the Twins. Morneau is a nice consolation price.
_JackFoley - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 07:30 PM EDT (#27314) #
Ruben Sierra, unbelievable. F*&%ing Yankees.
_Jim - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 07:30 PM EDT (#27315) #
Maybe the Twins should have stopped running into outs on the bases even when they were up 4?

People are going to talk about money this and money that - but there is no excuse for the Twins to lose this series - they have played like amatures.
_Thomas M - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 07:30 PM EDT (#27316) #
Oh sh*t. I was looking forward to an exciting Game 5 at least there is some more excitement today.
_Jim - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 07:31 PM EDT (#27317) #
Oh and Gardenhire, when your pitcher can't get anyone out - take him out of the game.
_Thomas M - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 07:33 PM EDT (#27318) #
Come on Nathan, salvage the series!
_Jim - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 07:34 PM EDT (#27319) #
What would possibly be the reason for leaving Rincon in for another hitter? What a joke. The Twins have been managed disgracefully.
_JackFoley - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 07:37 PM EDT (#27320) #
Rincon looked fine, imo. It was one bad pitch and Sierra made him pay.
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 07:38 PM EDT (#27321) #
Braun over brains right there.

A "smart hitter" takes that Rincon offering and sends it opposite field probably for a base hit.

A hitter like Sierra though, who's always thinking about pulling EVERYTHING, just shows off his "man-strength" right there. Impressive.
_Thomas M - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 07:40 PM EDT (#27322) #
How is Gardenhire ( sp?) perceived as a manger?
_Magpie - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 07:41 PM EDT (#27323) #
Well, at least I'm not feeling so bad about the Blue Jays bullpen...
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 07:43 PM EDT (#27324) #
Rincon wasn't all that bad last inning. Remember, it all got started with a broken bat base hit by Sheffield and just prior to allowing the game tying HR to Sierra, Rincon did get Posada on a NASTY slider.

It hurts the Twins that JC Romero was so bad during the stretch run or else that's another arm they can count on in the late innings. Instead it's basically a 2 man show in Rincon and Nathan... with Balfour doing long relief.
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 07:56 PM EDT (#27325) #
My goodness... if Sheffield had connected with that 1st pitch from Nathan, I think it might have ripped a whole threw the Metrodome roof. What a vicious hack!
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 07:58 PM EDT (#27326) #
Ehhh meck... I suppose that swing could have brought down the WHOLE metrodome, but a hole is more realistic.

Williams just misses a wall ball double to right by about a few inches.

Come on Nathan!!
_Thomas M - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 08:07 PM EDT (#27327) #
No Rivera, I like the Twins chances this inning with Jones, Hunter and Morneau.
_Thomas M - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 08:13 PM EDT (#27328) #
At least Gardenhire took Nathan out in time. Go Lohse!
robertdudek - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 08:20 PM EDT (#27329) #
Prediction: If the Twins don't win it in the bottom 10th, the Yankees will score at least one in the 11th and win.
_Thomas M - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 08:27 PM EDT (#27330) #
How about that? If the Yanks don't score in the 11th, the Twins will win on a double by Borders.
_DaveInNYC - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 08:32 PM EDT (#27331) #
Great heads up play by A-Rod, not so much from Kyle Lohse would was acting as if no one was on.

Now the road is tough for the Twins. A-Rod on 3rd with less than 2 outs with Sheff still up and Matsui on deck.
_Jim - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 08:34 PM EDT (#27332) #
Way to have Pat Borders behind the plate.

There is no way I lose this series with Lohse on the mound without using Jesse Crain in I'm Minnesota.
_Thomas M - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 08:35 PM EDT (#27333) #
So much for my prediction. Damn. That sounds on Gameday like a Terry Adams inning.
_Thomas M - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 08:41 PM EDT (#27334) #
Something to laugh about: in a World Cup qualifier mighty Portugal tied LICHTENSTEIN 2-2. HAHA :-)
_Thomas M - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 08:44 PM EDT (#27335) #
That's it for the Twins. Heads up for Robert Dudek ( do you have Polish ancestors?)
_Ron - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 08:45 PM EDT (#27336) #
WOO HOO Yanks vs. Red Sox. I'm jacked up about that series. I want both teams to win but I know that can't happen so I'm hoping the Red Sox can break through this year.
_Niles - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 08:48 PM EDT (#27337) #
Ron Gardenhier is this year's Grady Little. Discuss.
_Chuck Van Den C - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 08:51 PM EDT (#27338) #
For all the praise Terry Ryan gets for his ability to continually load up on young talent, how on earth does he (a) not resolve the black hole situation at 2B and (b) not find a better option than Pat Borders to be his post-season backup catcher, given that Mauer is hurt and LeCroy apparently doesn't catch any more?

By virtue of giving any playing time at all to Pat Borders in the post-season, you deserve to lose. I say this entirely ignoring the wild pitch/passed ball that led to the final Yankee run. I think a lot of catchers would have let that pitch get by them.
_Jim - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 08:53 PM EDT (#27339) #
'Ron Gardenhier is this year's Grady Little.'

He was actually worse. Lohse isn't good enough to start a game but he's good enough in extra innings to face 2-3-4 in the lineup? Jesse Crain can't be used in any situation?
_Jim - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 08:55 PM EDT (#27340) #
'For all the praise Terry Ryan gets for his ability to continually load up on young talent, how on earth does he (a) not resolve the black hole situation at 2B and'

I believe that their division holds them back in the playoffs. Because they don't have to resolve these things to make the playoffs, they aren't fixed FOR The playoffs. I love Jason Kubel, but he should have been turned into a starting pitcher at the deadline.
_Thomas M - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 08:56 PM EDT (#27341) #
Chuck, there aren't that many good 2B around I think. Maybe the Twins find a team that gives them a decent 2B for Jones and Kubel plays in RF.
_Fozzy - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 09:07 PM EDT (#27342) #
not find a better option than Pat Borders to be his post-season backup catcher, given that Mauer is hurt and LeCroy apparently doesn't catch any more?

How dearly do you think they'd pay for an excellent defensive catcher that can gun out the best of runners? If it's a lot, get JP on the phone and move Kevin Cash pronto!
_Jobu - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 09:19 PM EDT (#27343) #
I'm eating a Hot Rod right now. What are you guys eating?
_Chuck Van Den C - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 09:31 PM EDT (#27344) #
How dearly do you think they'd pay for an excellent defensive catcher that can gun out the best of runners?

They already have one. If Mauer's catching career doesn't come to an abrupt halt because of his injuries, Blanco will be the catch-and-throw guy who backs him up.
_Magpie - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 09:38 PM EDT (#27345) #
Just like I said. Twins in 4...

OK, I didn't take Ron Gardenhire into account. My bad.

You can also feel free to mock me over my Braves in 4 call.

I told you I never get these right...
_Magpie - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#27346) #
Lima Time.

Topic for discussion. Who has had a more unpredictable career than Jose Lima?
_Keith Talent - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#27347) #
I don't see why you start Santana on 3 days rest only to pull him after 5. He struck out the last 4 batters he faced and felt fine. It was a bit of arrogance on the part of Gardenhire, thinking he had the game in his pocket with a 4-run lead.

The Twins should have won that series.
robertdudek - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 09:44 PM EDT (#27348) #
Heads up for Robert Dudek ( do you have Polish ancestors?)

More than I can count.
_6-4-3 - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 09:48 PM EDT (#27349) #
why not find a better option than Pat Borders to be his post-season backup catcher, given that Mauer is hurt and LeCroy apparently doesn't catch any more?

I remember reading this, and being floored.

"The number that drew Minnesota's attention to Borders was .372 -- his career average in World Series games. He was part of the Blue Jays' world championship teams in 1992-93 and was the MVP of the '92 World Series."

With that reasoning, I'm stunned that they didn't jump on John Olerud. Could a deal for Timlin have been worked out? And where was Rickey Henderson? They were three pieces away from a World Series ring . . . from '92.
_Magpie - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 09:52 PM EDT (#27350) #
The number that drew Minnesota's attention to Borders was .372 -- his career average in World Series games.

Geez, why didn't they go after Billy Hatcher?
_R Billie - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 09:57 PM EDT (#27351) #
AFL Update: Arnold made a start yesterday and was typically so-so. A couple of innings, four hits, three runs, one earned, one K.

Rosario looked really sharp with three innings, two hits, one walk, four K.

Hill got the day off and big Vito had two hits including a double. He's 4 for 7 in the early going. Hattig was 1 for 3 with a triple and a walk.
_Thomas M - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 10:13 PM EDT (#27352) #
RObert, is Jerzy ( I believe his is spelled like that)the Polish football goalie one of them or is Dudek a rather common last name in Poland?
robertdudek - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 10:23 PM EDT (#27353) #
No, he's not a relative. "Dudek" is a common surname in Poland - perhaps among the 20 or 30 most common.
_Mick - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 11:23 PM EDT (#27354) #
Ron Gardenhire is this year's Grady Little.

Not at all. Little had 2.5 million homicidal residents of Red Sox Nation trying to figure out which car was his and how to abduct his children. Twins cans are rational donchano ... Minnasodans are good folk, even in the face of pop culture tragedy, or haven't you seen "Drop Dead Gorgeous"?
_Mick - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 11:24 PM EDT (#27355) #
Twins fans that is, though I expect their cans are quite rational, too.
Lucas - Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 11:34 PM EDT (#27356) #
Aaron Gleeman, revealed! COMN.
_Magpie - Sunday, October 10 2004 @ 12:01 AM EDT (#27357) #
Aaron Gleeman, revealed!

" is quite clear why I am interested in being a writer, as opposed to, say, a television personality or an underwear model."

I like it. This is good. It always pleases me to see such wisdom and self-awareness in one so young...

Or, in the immortal words of Clint Eastwood...

"Man's gotta know his limitations."
_Ron - Sunday, October 10 2004 @ 12:11 AM EDT (#27358) #
I think it would be cool if everybody got their own bio and pic on the site (of course my ugly mug would scare away children so I'm not sure anybody would want to see it:)
_Keith Talent - Sunday, October 10 2004 @ 08:43 AM EDT (#27359) #
Just read the ESPN report on Lima's start. How can you not feel happy for the guy? That was inspiring.
_Jobu - Sunday, October 10 2004 @ 12:57 PM EDT (#27360) #
Hey, where's the sunday thread? The game starts in 10 minutes!
_Moffatt - Sunday, October 10 2004 @ 01:02 PM EDT (#27361) #
Well, everyone already knows my bio.

Here's a pic of me taken a bit after 9:00am this morning looking very, very tired:

_Moffatt - Sunday, October 10 2004 @ 01:03 PM EDT (#27362) #
I'll put up the Sunday thread. Just give me a minute. :)
_Mick - Sunday, October 10 2004 @ 05:19 PM EDT (#27363) #
Moffatt, have you never heard the old saw "Aim for the low-hanging fruit first"?
_Chuck Van Den C - Sunday, October 10 2004 @ 09:55 PM EDT (#27364) #
Aim for the low-hanging fruit

He may be a government economist.
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