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We saw Josh Towers shut down the Reds last year, and today we hope for the same against the other National League Central archrivals of the Toronto Blue Jays, the Pittsburgh Pirates. It's Roy Halladay versus Kip Wells, or so Spencer Fordin tells me.

This game is on MLB.com for those of us with a Gameday Audio subscription. Or, you can find a list of Pittsburgh radio feeds here, and maybe one of them will have a webcast of today's game. If I were a betting man, I would guess WWPR 1490 out of Bradenton has the game, but I can't find a Listen Live link anywhere. Bauxites?

However, even if there is a link, those of us currently sitting in a English classroom have no way of following this game. Baseball or high school, which one would you pick?

Spring Training: Jays vs. Pirates | 176 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
R Billie - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 12:40 PM EST (#106856) #
There are apparently heavy rains in the area and they aren't expecting a lot of baseball today. I guess we'll see.
Named For Hank - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 12:52 PM EST (#106860) #
Man, I thought this time we'd actually play the Pirates!
jsoh - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 12:56 PM EST (#106861) #
Man, I thought this time we'd actually play the Pirates!

Arrrggghh. The weather be disinclined to acquiesce to your request, matey. Arrrgh

(sorry. couldnt resist)

Jdog - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 01:00 PM EST (#106862) #
What about Burnside guys?? I understand this guy is a lefty and he seems to be having a decent spring...He is still with the big club, so what are the guys chances of breaking with the club......not good i presume, but anybody know anything on this guy...what is his stuff like?
Zao - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 01:01 PM EST (#106863) #
FYI Friday and Sat. games are on the Fan this week.
Pepper Moffatt - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 01:04 PM EST (#106864) #
RE: Burnside. See: http://www.battersbox.ca/article.php?story=20050310125213634

He could see some time this year as a LOOGY if there's a bunch of pitching injuries. I can't see him making the team out of Spring Training, but I suppose stranger things have happened.
Pistol - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 01:11 PM EST (#106865) #
The Jays have stolen 9 bases this spring despite saying they'd run more this year.

Thoughts?
Pepper Moffatt - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 01:15 PM EST (#106868) #
The Jays have stolen 9 bases this spring despite saying they'd run more this year.

Despite? They've only played 15 games. That translates to 97 swipes over an 162 game schedule. Last year they only stole 58.

Nolan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 01:18 PM EST (#106869) #
It sounds as if the game is going to be called by rain...in the bottom of the first.

Sparky flies out.
O-Dog homers. WooHoo
Vernon up....and now the Umps wave the players off the field...
Jdog - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 01:25 PM EST (#106871) #
Jdog thinks a lot of the guys we expect to steal more bases have not been getting on base as much as we hope they will during the regular season.....aka Wells ...at least wells hasn't , i aint too sure about the other guys.
H Winfield Teut - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 01:34 PM EST (#106873) #
Didnt Burnside just get sent to AAA with Crozier, Quiroz, Carlson and Nannini?
H Winfield Teut - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 01:40 PM EST (#106874) #
Nope it was Lundberg.
Mike Green - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 01:42 PM EST (#106875) #
English classroom vs. a spring training game? Hmm. Tough choice. Alice Munro vs. Yankees/Sox? Thomas Hardy vs. Twins/Tigers? The mash-up possibilities are endless...

All I can say is that come October it's no contest.
Ducey - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 01:50 PM EST (#106876) #
"The Jays have stolen 9 bases this spring despite saying they'd run more this year. "

It is interesting in that the non 25 man roster type guys (other than Nelson) have no steals. Considering the 25 man roster guys have only played half the games (if that) but have all the steals - this aint bad.



H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 01:57 PM EST (#106878) #
There's a strong cell sitting north of Clearwater on the radar. To the west it's clear though, so I think this rain will move out, and they can get the game in.

Let's hope Doc gets his five innings in. He had a one, two three first, with two strikeouts.
BCMike - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:08 PM EST (#106879) #
It sounds like they are close to getting underway again. The grounds crew received some applause and I think I've heard a couple balls hitting gloves... they sure play some crappy music during rain delays though.
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:12 PM EST (#106880) #
Huey Lewis and the News is "crappy?"
BCMike - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:16 PM EST (#106882) #
No, but "Hey Mickey" "Cotten Eyed Joe" and most of the rest sure is.

Anyway Game On
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:19 PM EST (#106883) #
Okay, point taken.

Wells gets an infield single, to third on Rios single
Rios steals second
Hillenbrand sac fly

2-0 Jays
Nolan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:19 PM EST (#106885) #
Back at it, with Kip Wells still on the mound.

Vernon- infield hit- a slow grounder to Wiggington who couldn't throw him out.
Rios- base hit to right field, with Vernon going to 3rd.
1st and 3rd w/ one out.
Rios steals second, Vernon stays on third.
Shea- flied out; Wells scores, Rios to third. 2 out
Nolan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:20 PM EST (#106886) #
Oops, didn't realize someone was already doing a play-by-play..
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:22 PM EST (#106887) #
You can take it.

Are they taking out Halladay???????????
Spartan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:31 PM EST (#106889) #
As anyone found an internet radio feed? Well other than MLB.com.
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:33 PM EST (#106890) #
I'm listening to MLB.com. Not aware of any other feed.

It's 2-1 in the top of the second. Matt Whiteside came on for Halladay.

Whiteside struck out the leadoff man, then homer, walk, walk, fly out in that order. 2 out.
sweat - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:35 PM EST (#106891) #
Maybe they feel he sat too long, due to the rain delay, and shouldnt go back in.
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:36 PM EST (#106892) #
Okay, brace yourselves.

Whiteside can't get a third out. He gave up a single and a double, and it's 4-2 Pittsburgh
Nolan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:38 PM EST (#106893) #
"You can take it."

Well, I'm trying to write an essay at the same time, so...if you want to take it, I don't mind (does anyone still need the p-by-p?).

Hinske grounds out to second to end the 1st.
2-0 Jays.

Top of 2nd:
Matt Whiteside in for Halladay.
Strikes out first batter.
Darryl Ward hits a solo hr. 2-1 Jays
Walks Wiggington on a full count (first walk of spring training for Whiteside).
Jose Castillo works it to a full count and takes ball four- 1st and 2nd, one out.
Benito Santiago flies out to Gross. The runners hold. 2 out.
Duffy (sp?) lines a 1-2 pitch to center for a single. Ward scores. 2-2 tie.
Tike Redmond belts the first pitch off the wall for a two run double. 4-2 Pirates.
Jack Wilson (8th batter of inning)pops it to Hudson for the 3rd out.

4-2 Pirates

H Winfield Teut - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:39 PM EST (#106894) #
Yes keep the pbp up.
edtjeerd - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:40 PM EST (#106895) #
Yes, please continue the play by play. It is very much appreciated.
Nolan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:41 PM EST (#106896) #
Does anyone need the play-by play?
Spartan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:42 PM EST (#106897) #
I would appreciate the play by play
BlueJaysLee - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:43 PM EST (#106898) #
Enjoying the pbp, thanks!
binnister - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:43 PM EST (#106899) #
Play by Play -- yes

Someone take it and run with it :)
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:43 PM EST (#106900) #
Okay, do you your essay.

2 out in the bottom of the second. Myers just struck out. I missed the first out. Looks like Pittsburgh's starter is settling in and getting ahead in the count on everyone.
westcoast dude - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:43 PM EST (#106901) #
Please keep the pbp coming; much appreciated.
Nolan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:45 PM EST (#106902) #
Okay...

Gross lines a hard shot into the OF for an out. Apparently hit it quite hard.
Myers up, works it to a full count before striking out. 2 out.
John McDonald grounds to third and it rolls under Wigginton's backhanded attempt. Error charged to Ty.
McDonald at first, 2 out.
Sparky grounds out to short.

End of 2, 4-2 Pirates.
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:46 PM EST (#106903) #
I had to mute to answer the phone, and I think McDonald got on on an error.

Anyways, a ground out followed, so it's 4-2 Pittsburgh after two.
Nolan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:46 PM EST (#106904) #
Thanks H8 The Braves...
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:54 PM EST (#106905) #
Whiteside still on. Top of third

Gets the first two, and Ward gets a single.
Followed by an infield single by Wigginton

2 on, 2 out
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 02:59 PM EST (#106907) #
Whiteside gets out of third with a strike out

There's now one out in the bottom of the third, after ODog grounds out.

Wells up.

still 4-2
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:03 PM EST (#106908) #
Wells and Rios fly out.

4-2 after three

Speier on to pitch the Fourth
rtcaino - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:06 PM EST (#106909) #
Should be a good showcase of the bullpen from here on in.
H Winfield Teut - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:06 PM EST (#106910) #
This mean Whiteside's bags were moved to minor league complex?
Pepper Moffatt - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:08 PM EST (#106911) #
I doubt the Jays decision on Whiteside was going to change one iota on how he pitched today, for better or for worse.
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:09 PM EST (#106912) #
I believe Whiteside has won a free ticket to beautiful Syracuse New York.

Anyways, Leadoff single by Santiago, followed by a tough strike out, and another single.

First and second with one out in the top of the fourth.
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:10 PM EST (#106913) #
Base hit, Santiago scores.

first and second, one out.

5-2 Pirates
H Winfield Teut - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:11 PM EST (#106914) #
Whiteside's chances to make the team were between slim and none to begin with, but with their commitment for these final two weeks to be more of the team they plan to open with, this indeed may have sealed it.
H Winfield Teut - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:13 PM EST (#106915) #
Justin, I know people have bad games, but its generally not a good idea to get blown out after you just said you think you could have won the closer's job.....that said, I do look for him to be very good this year.
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:14 PM EST (#106916) #
Strike out followed by a hit batsman to load the bases.

Ward grounds out to O'Dog.

5-2 after 3 1/2
Nolan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:18 PM EST (#106917) #
With the Devil rays needing to replace their now retired clean-up hitter/outfielder, perhaps the Jays could team up with them again.

They might go for Cat or Sparky. We could try for some more bullpen help, or add to our package and go for a really good prospect...

Just a thought.
Pepper Moffatt - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:19 PM EST (#106918) #
Wow, you guys are harsh.

Everybody is going to have bad games now and again. EVERYBODY. When Halladay won the Cy Young in 2003, he still had some stinkers, and did lose 7 games. In his very first game of the year he gave up 2 homers and 8 runs against the Yankees in 5 and a bit innings.

I doubt the Jays are going to base their decisions on what happens in one game. I would hope they have a longer perspective than that. I don't care who you are, you will have days where you look like a superstar and days when you look like you'd have trouble making a college team.
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:19 PM EST (#106919) #
Bottom of the fourth.

Hillenbrand grounds out.
Hinske doubles to right-centre gap

(Wilner just said "the chances are pretty good that Gross will go North." I don't think he meant Syracuse)

Babe home run (no, I'm not kidding)

5-4 Pittsburgh, one out, bottom of fourht
Andrew K - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:20 PM EST (#106920) #
7. He does it again!
Nolan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:20 PM EST (#106921) #
WooHoo!!

Babe Gross does it again!
Pepper Moffatt - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:22 PM EST (#106922) #
I don't think you can trade Cat without his permission right now, as he just signed as a free agent.

Not sure how much Reed would fetch. Probably not much.

Gross or Rios would work, but you'd have to get something good in return for me to deal either of those guys.

Knowing the Devil Rays, they'll probably just grab some stiff off of waivers. Is Alex Sanchez still available?
H Winfield Teut - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:22 PM EST (#106923) #
Easy Pepper, nothing harsh about it...i simply said one, whiteside really didnt have a spot on this team in its current shape anyway, and one game isnt changing that either way, if he struck out 6 it wouldn't assure him a spot, there is simply no room. as for Speier, the rest of my comment should make sense to you. Of course a bad outing by Speier doesnt change a thing, but my point was its usually not to your advantage to say you could have been a good closer and then get beat up by Pittsburgh. I do think he serves as a very effective set up man still.
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:23 PM EST (#106924) #
Myers flies out
McDonald lines out

Inning over. 5-4 Pittsburgh after four.

(Anybody been reminiscing about the 1979 World Series? Man, that was a good one)
H Winfield Teut - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:24 PM EST (#106925) #
The interesting thing is what to do with Gross, for a guy who had no spot on this team to begin with he is one homer away from tying the club spring record....and that still may not be enough to go North....The question is...how much does your spring play REALLY effect your stance on the team.
Pepper Moffatt - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:25 PM EST (#106926) #
Never mind - just found out the Rays *already* signed Sanchez. Figures. :)
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:26 PM EST (#106927) #
Olympic Silver Medalist Adrian Burnside on to pitch.

Looper to Hudson for first out.
Castillo singles.
Sherrystar - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:28 PM EST (#106928) #
Not like I'd want to trade him (I like the "up and coming" Blue Jays, reminds of of the Killer B's!) ... but don't you think Gross' trade value is pretty hight right now?

7 homers, 1 away from Carlos... sweet!
H Winfield Teut - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:29 PM EST (#106929) #
What is the rule on a Cat trade? He resigned does that make a difference? I have never heard that ruling and would be interested to actually see it.
Pepper Moffatt - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:29 PM EST (#106930) #
If Gross does match the record, I don't see how you can send him down. But where to put him? Also, it does the team no good if he's rotting on the bench.

To put him on the roster, you've got to bump a pitcher, or someone like McDonald or Menechino off. Unless they manage to trade Reed Johnson, which could happen. I wonder how much Reed would fetch relative to Jayson Werth.

I'd love to see the Jays start the year with 11 pitchers and have a job sharing scenario with LF/RF/1B/DH.
rtcaino - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:30 PM EST (#106931) #
Hey Moffatt, (this is totally off topic)

I saw an article you wrote about marijuana legalization. The one about Easton's. I thought was was pretty cool. I was just gettin some facts for a 5 minute speech I had comming up and saw a fellow Bauxite... Err umm, back to the game. Take her away H8 The Braves.
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:31 PM EST (#106932) #
I think he meant that it's unethical to sign a free agent and then immediately trade him. It can make it difficult to sign FAs going forward if you treat them that way.

Anyways,

Another single, first and second with one out in top of fifth.
H Winfield Teut - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:32 PM EST (#106933) #
I think if you carry Gross, an OF goes, no reason to carry all 5. As for the ruling, Cone was signed as a free agent and traded that year, so I guess I am really in question, of the phrasing of the rule.
Pepper Moffatt - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:32 PM EST (#106934) #
It's something in the CBA. I don't think the fact he re-signed matters. Does anyone know the exact wording of the rule?
VBF - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:33 PM EST (#106935) #
I was the biggest advocate against bringing Gabe Gross North. It's only Spring Training and AAA won't hurt.

Now I'm thinking why not bring him up and if his spring was a fluke, he can be sent down. He hasn't done anything to not make the team so give him a chance. However, his promotion can only be made possible with the clearing of room. Who can go?

Hinske--Although verbal agreements mean nothing in baseball, I think most people have a gut feeling he can put up respectable numbers.

Hillenbrand--He could be outthe door, but it was J.P.'s "best option out there" so it would seem odd to trade him.

Catalanotto--Cannot be traded because of recent contract signing unless someone can prove me wrong. Please feel free.

Sparky--his role wouldn't fit Gabe's and Gabe might not see alot of time here. Not to mention, Sparky fits his role beautifully and can be a good 4th outfielder.
rtcaino - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:33 PM EST (#106936) #
That should say Eastonís estimates in regards to how much the government could make if they legalized and regulated the marijuana industry. $2 billion plus, pretty interesting stuff.
Ryan01 - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:34 PM EST (#106937) #
There's nothing stopping the Jays from trading Cat. The restriction on newly signed free agents only applies to players who filed for free agency and signed during the offseason. Since Cat signed well before the November cut-off, he is perfectly eligible for a trade.
Pepper Moffatt - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:34 PM EST (#106938) #
It's a timing thing. It's something like 6 months after he signed or not until June 1st, or something like that. It's not a whole year thing, hence the Cone trade.
Pepper Moffatt - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:35 PM EST (#106939) #
Ah,cool. Thanks, Ryan!
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:36 PM EST (#106940) #
Since Hillenbrand and Johnson are both Right handed hitters, Gross would have to displace Hinske, Cat, or a pitcher. I don't think the Jays can afford to give up any right handed hitters right now.

Bact to the game.

Burnside gets out of the inning.

5-4 after 4 1/2
Andrew K - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:37 PM EST (#106941) #
Given the above, it seems that the only OF/DH candidate for a trade is Wells...

for Vazquez? Some supposedly cast-iron prospect like Kotchman or MacPherson? Sheets? It's tough to imagine trading any of the players we have come to love, and that seems to include the whole OF.
H Winfield Teut - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:37 PM EST (#106942) #
Obviously we have some discrepancy on the understanding of the rule, would love to see someone with a clip of it....as far as the "ethics" since when has MLB been concerned with the "ethics?" :)
Named For Hank - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:38 PM EST (#106943) #
There's nothing stopping the Jays from trading Cat.

Except that they'd look bad and other free agents would hesitate to re-sign here lest they be immediately flipped to another team.

BCMike - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:40 PM EST (#106944) #

I'd love to see the Jays start the year with 11 pitchers and have a job sharing scenario with LF/RF/1B/DH.

Unless Gross implodes during the final week+, I think this is exactly what they'll do. Throw in the health issues of Lilly, Rios and Koskie and I think you have a rotation scenario.

As long as it doesn't cost them Reed Johnson, I believe Gross will be starting the year in the bigs.

H Winfield Teut - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:41 PM EST (#106945) #
It might stop the Jays from getting a Matt Clement or something.... Agreed Hank, but at what point do you realize what you have and make the move? I don't think a free agent is going to be overly concerned that a team traded a Frank Catalanatto if they are offering him big bucks and or a chance at a winner.
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:41 PM EST (#106947) #
Sparky got on first somehow (sorry, I missed it), and then stole second.

O'Dog got to first, somehow.

Wells grounds into double play

Sparky on third with two out, Rios up.
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:43 PM EST (#106948) #
It's 5-4 after 5
rtcaino - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:45 PM EST (#106949) #
I just heard Wilners call of Gross's homer on the Fan's 20/20 sports update. Here it is, paraphrasing of course.

"One one count. Swung on. Belted! Gone! That one's going into a different timezome! Gabe Gross with his 7th homer of the spring!"

Pretty good Wilner. Pretty damn good.
Sean - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:49 PM EST (#106950) #
so i take it theres no radio for this game for us cheap bastards that dont want to buy mlb.com radio.
Nolan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:49 PM EST (#106951) #
Heh, I sometimes visit the Jays message board at www.scouts.com as it sometimes has some good conversation. Anyways, i just checked over there and saw that they have a game thread as well...and the game updates are word for word the same as here.

It took me a few moments to figure out this incredible "coincidence," and now it's kind of amusing.

uglyone: This isn't meant to deter you from taking updates from here or to make fun of you, I just found it funny...
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:49 PM EST (#106952) #
I missed who is pitching for the Jays,

Anyway, the inning went

strike out
single
ground out
Fly out

5-4 Pittsburgh after 5 1/2
Andrew K - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:50 PM EST (#106954) #
The Boy Scouts and Girl Guides web page has game threads?
H Winfield Teut - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:50 PM EST (#106955) #
A number of posters frequent both boards, so I learned to save time and just check here and get the information first hand.
Named For Hank - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:53 PM EST (#106956) #
Agreed Hank, but at what point do you realize what you have and make the move? I don't think a free agent is going to be overly concerned that a team traded a Frank Catalanatto if they are offering him big bucks and or a chance at a winner.

What you're talking about is hurting the team's reputation and ability to sign players long term for one or two extra months of an unproven player! I think you have to step back from your desire to watch Gross play every day this season and see what's good for the Toronto Blue jays.

H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:55 PM EST (#106957) #
Bottom of the sixth

Hillenbrand grounds out
Hinske grounds out
The Babe strikes out

5-4 Pittsburgh after six
rtcaino - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:56 PM EST (#106959) #
I visit Scouts.com on occasion as well. For a little while they had a Daily Articles thread that was awesome. But that has been quit stagnant for the past week or so.

Nolan, do you know anybody who subscribes to Inside the Dome? They seem to have pretty good coverage, and I'm itching for reading material. Though I'm sure once the season starts Blue Jaysí coverage in the Toronto dailies should increase.
H Winfield Teut - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:56 PM EST (#106960) #
I just disagree that its an issue, I don't see it hurting the Jays at all, he played last year, it isnt really an issue that is detrimental. No free agent is going to say, gee Toronto traded Frank Catalanato after they signed him to a SECOND contract, I better not go there. Personally for me, it has nothing to do with seeing Gross play. I would like to keep Cat on the team, but really you have to trade an OF if you keep Gross, and who is most marketable? Wells? Yeah but you lose him you lose a lot. Plus Gross is a lefty so Cat makes the most sense.
Nolan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:56 PM EST (#106962) #
H Winfield Teut = uglyone?
H Winfield Teut - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:58 PM EST (#106963) #
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoo I dont post at scout, but I have read their material. I think you can see who the references are by reading the posts.
Ryan01 - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 03:59 PM EST (#106964) #

Mike, just incase you're still wondering, this is the part from the Free Agency section of the CBA that I think you were refering to:

Any Club signing a contract after the expiration of the election period with a Player under this Section B may not assign his contract until after the next June 15.

The election period starts October 15 (or the day after the World Series finishes, whichever is later) and lasts 15 days. So since Cat re-signed back in September he can be traded (aside from the reason NFH pointed out) but Koskie, for example, can't be traded yet.

uglyone - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:01 PM EST (#106965) #
H Winfield Teut = uglyone?
nope.
Nolan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:01 PM EST (#106966) #

Nolan, do you know anybody who subscribes to Inside the Dome? They seem to have pretty good coverage, and I'm itching for reading material. Though I'm sure once the season starts Blue Jaysí coverage in the Toronto dailies should increase.

No, I considered it, but decided against it. I do like the scout.com site for discussion on the Jays, but I enjoy the Box much more. I did find interesting that on that forum, Koch's release got discussed a LOT more than here, with most of the reaction there being quite negative- I found that quite interesting.

BCMike - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:02 PM EST (#106967) #
Cat is one of the leaders on the team and I think that's one of the main reasons why JP resigned him. I would be very surprised if he was moved before July, if at all.
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:02 PM EST (#106968) #
Nannini in to pitch.

Fly out
Ground out
Strike out

5-4 Pittsburgh after 6 1/2
uglyone - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:04 PM EST (#106969) #
How many bats does Gross need this year with the big team to justify him staying with the team?

Aren't there enough at bats in LF, RF, 1B, and DH (~2400) to get all 5 of Rios, Gross, Hinske, Shea, and Cat 400-500 at bats a piece? even if you give Reed 200? (especially considering Koskie'll probably miss time to injury as well).

Nolan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:05 PM EST (#106970) #

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoo

So you're saying it's not you, right? I'm sorry, I'm not good at subtlety :)

Pepper Moffatt - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:06 PM EST (#106971) #
Excellent! Thanks, Ryan!
rtcaino - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:07 PM EST (#106972) #
""Excellent! Thanks, Ryan!""

Me Ryan? or Ryan01 Ryan?
Named For Hank - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:08 PM EST (#106973) #
I just disagree that its an issue, I don't see it hurting the Jays at all, he played last year, it isnt really an issue that is detrimental. No free agent is going to say, gee Toronto traded Frank Catalanato after they signed him to a SECOND contract, I better not go there.

More like "If I sign a deal with them I'd better get a no-trade clause or extra cash, because they're likely to flip me before I play a single game".

I see no reason, at all, to make a move on this now and not in a month or two. Can someone give me a reason that makes sense?

Pepper Moffatt - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:09 PM EST (#106974) #
Both of you. It's all good. :)
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:11 PM EST (#106975) #
Bottom of seventh.

Myers flies out.
McDonald grounds out
Sparky walks
Adams lines out

5-4 Pittsburgh after seven
Spartan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:12 PM EST (#106976) #
They should just carry 11 pitchers and if Gross plays well, they can make a move then.

Of coarse there is the inevitable Hinske slump that could open up a spot.
BCMike - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:12 PM EST (#106977) #

Aren't there enough at bats in LF, RF, 1B, and DH (~2400) to get all 5 of Rios, Gross, Hinske, Shea, and Cat 400-500 at bats a piece? even if you give Reed 200? (especially considering Koskie'll probably miss time to injury as well).

I think this is why the Jays don't have to rush into a decision. Gross can come up for the first month or two and the Jays have an opportunity to evaluate where they are at. They don't need to rush into making room for Gross. The lack of depth after Gross is also a good reason not to hastily move an outfielder.

Oh, and I wish they'd let Jamie Campbell do an inning or two, just as a sneak peek to what we have in store for this year :)

rtcaino - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:13 PM EST (#106978) #
Bob McCowan is talking about what the Blue Jays should do to honor Robbie Alomar. I think it would be a nice gesture to honor him early in the season. Especially since it must be an emotional time for him.
Named For Hank - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:15 PM EST (#106979) #
Cat is one of the leaders on the team and I think that's one of the main reasons why JP resigned him.

That's another good point. Cat does so much research and puts in so much time gathering information that he freely shares with the rest of the team that he has significant value beyond his skills on the field. Not only does he set an excellent example, but he makes everyone else better.

And he's definitely a team leader -- don't forget that incident with the umpire and the rookies last year.

There will be an injury on the team, or something will transpire to open up a spot for Gabe if he doesn't start the season in Toronto. Trading away a player just to get Gabe Gross a starting position a few weeks earlier would be ludicrous.

That said, I'm all for a good or great trade that opens up a spot for him and helps the team. I just don't have any idea of what that trade would be.

Named For Hank - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:19 PM EST (#106981) #
Bob McCowan is talking about what the Blue Jays should do to honor Robbie Alomar. I think it would be a nice gesture to honor him early in the season. Especially since it must be an emotional time for him.

I'd put money on Alomar being on the Level of Excellence as quickly as the plaque can be made. And if anyone from the Jays is reading this and thinking "how can I have a Level of Excellence plaque made up in time for opening day", click on my name and e-mail me. My pricing is competitive. ;)

VBF - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:20 PM EST (#106982) #
That would be nice, but let's see what the Opening Day agenda looks like:

1) John Cerutti ceremony.
2) Bobby Mattick ceremony.
3) Possible Doug Ault ceremony.
4) Murray Eldon honour award for service.
5) Dave Stieb jersey retiring? Reed did change to 3 for no particular reason.
6) Possible Robbie Alomar Level of Excellence ceremony. Maybe it can wait a couple days.
Named For Hank - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:22 PM EST (#106983) #
Well, maybe the second homestand, then.
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:22 PM EST (#106984) #
Pete Walker in to pitch the top of the 8th

Duffie flies out
Redmond singles
Cortes pinch runs for Redmond
Cortes gets picked off
Wilson singles
Grieve walks
Wilson (another one) strikes out

5-4 Pittsburgh after 7 1/2
VBF - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:23 PM EST (#106985) #
On the topic of Level of Excellence plaques, did anyone notice that it's not even a plaque. It's some sort of canvass material with the exception of the new Tom Cheek one which was shinier and had bubbles in it. I hope they can fix it up.
Nolan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:24 PM EST (#106986) #
"Cortes pinch runs for Redmond
Cortes gets picked off"

That's amusing.
Zao - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:25 PM EST (#106987) #
Why would you need to get rid on an outfielder right away? I agree with BCMike's idea. You could put Gross at DH and Hillenbrand at 1B, keep the LF platoon and Hinske is benched. Menechino plays either 3B or DH against lefty's. When Rios needs a day off Gross plays RF and Hinske is in. A bench of Hinske, Menechino, Johnson, Myers and McDonald is pretty nice. Of course you could only carry 11 pitchers but that shouldn't be a problem.
Zao - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:28 PM EST (#106988) #
Then later in the season you could trade either Cat or Hillenbrand, or send Gross down if his spring was a fluke.
Spartan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:30 PM EST (#106989) #
Gross is the better outfielder so he would be in left while Catalanotto would DH
H Winfield Teut - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:31 PM EST (#106990) #
Hinske is awfully high priced to be getting splinters. I just don't see a fa looking at the Jays making ONE move as a trend that would change their opinion, The Jays would make such a move to improve their team if they felt such a move would do such, a FA is not going to not go somewhere over lets face it, really in the scope of things a minor move. guess its just an agree to disagree. As for reasons to keep Gross...ummm hello??? Now, what would I do you ask...ok so you didnt but I will tell you anyway. I send Gross down for now, but he has pressed that a decision be made. I don't think you can get anything for Hinske which seems to be the move everyone wants, Johnson doesnt bring much, so is maybe the option if No one wants to trade Cat to trade Gross?
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:33 PM EST (#106991) #
Bottom of the 8th

Nelson singles
Rios strikes out
Alfaro grounds out, Nelson to second
Matos singles, Nelson scores

5-5, with two out in the bottom of the 8th

Gross Up!
Mark - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:33 PM EST (#106993) #
Send Gross down, however if there is an injury to an outfielder he should be in there not Sparky. Sparky's deception already cost us Werth.
Joseph Krengel - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:33 PM EST (#106994) #
Benching Hinske is a non-starter the way I see it, for several reasons. One, the Jays made a commitment to Hinske in the off-season, and breaking your word DOES have consequences in sports.

More importantly though, it destroys the possibility of him having a good season. Players don't get better on the bench, they get worse. If you tell a guy "we're going to give you an opportunity to turn it around, because we believe in you," and then come back to him four months later and say "well, the new kid is doing pretty good thee last few weeks, and you're the odd man out," where does that leave him? His confidence and enthousiasm will be shot, no matter how 'professional' he is. Seriously guys, why rush him? He's not going to hit THIS well in the regular season. If you give him that spot right now and all of a sudden you realize there is no room, then you've let Gross down. He knows right now there's no room. Lets just leave it at that.
rtcaino - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:34 PM EST (#106995) #
""You could put Gross at DH and Hillenbrand at 1B, keep the LF platoon and Hinske is benched.""

My concern about this, is that by benching Hinske, you run the risk of him loosing value. Which is bad, because the Jays are on the hook for 11 million or so over the next two years.
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:35 PM EST (#106996) #
The Babe flies out to the wall.

5-5 after 8
Named For Hank - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:36 PM EST (#106997) #
As for reasons to keep Gross...ummm hello???

That's not what I asked. I asked about the advantage of having him up on Opening Day vs. a month later when someone is injured or an advantageous trade situation comes along.

Named For Hank - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:38 PM EST (#106998) #
Sparky's deception already cost us Werth.

Reed Johnson tricked everybody into thinking the team needed bullpen help?

Nolan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:38 PM EST (#106999) #
I think Gross should be sent to Triple A for the first month of the season. This will give the Jays long enough to figure out what to do with guys like Cat, Shea and Hinske. At point a trade could maybe be worked out and Gross would get the call-up.

If Shea or Hinske starts off hot, I wouldn't mind seeing what JP could get for them...
H Winfield Teut - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:40 PM EST (#107000) #
Hank I really dont see us as that far apart on the Gross issue. He has made a case for himself, but is it enough is yet to be decided. I would like to see him on the team, and I think it will come via injury. I think Cat will get hurt, and Wells and Rios concern me. I just disagree on the impact that trading Cat would have on the future, but that is probably something neither of us will know for sure. Granted he is a leader on this team and a valuable part, but after 60 whatever wins we had last year, is his leadership really that valuable?
Named For Hank - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:40 PM EST (#107001) #
Krengel and Caino have it.

I really cannot see what the fuss is -- and still, no one has told me how an extra few weeks of Gross will help the team in the long run.
Pepper Moffatt - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:42 PM EST (#107002) #
It's not a bad thing for the team to have depth, given that Cat is a huge injury risk, Wells had some leg problems last year, Koskie has battled injuries for a decent portion of his career, etc.

Last thing I want to see is a guy like John McDonald playing OF, like Dave Berg did last year.
Named For Hank - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:43 PM EST (#107003) #
He has made a case for himself, but is it enough is yet to be decided.

I think that the decision has been made that Gross will see major league playing time this year. The decision that hasn't been made is whether it will be tomorrow or next week. Hell, maybe even that one has been made, we just don't know the answer yet.

But if the decision is "next week" instead of "tomorrow", people will be freaking out for no good reason.

Joseph Krengel - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:46 PM EST (#107004) #
Just as a harmless aside, I'd really prefer "Joe" or "Joseph" over Krengel.

Trading Wells is a non-issue as well. He's the leader of this team. If you trade him it'll completely destabilize the team and it'll scare away free agents.
Named For Hank - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:48 PM EST (#107005) #
Heh, okay. "Krengel and Caino" sounded like a pair of TV cops, that's why I went with it.
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:48 PM EST (#107006) #
Batista on to pitch the ninth

walk
walk
ground out DP
hit batter
walk
Bases loaded, two out
Andrew K - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:50 PM EST (#107007) #
According to SF http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050321&content_id=972989&vkey=spt2005news&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
the rotation is set for the first few games. Lilly won't be ready for the second game so they are going with:

@TB Halladay
@TB Chacin
@TB Towers
(off day)
vBOS Bush
vBOS Halladay
vBOS Lilly

This worries me a bit. The potential to get off to a bad start is there. There follows series away at Oakland, Texas, Boston, then home v New York. Yikes. We desperately don't want to fall a way behind .500 in the first month.
VBF - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:50 PM EST (#107008) #
It's a spring training game that i'm not even watching, yet I can feel my stomach ulcers starting up again.
Rob - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:51 PM EST (#107009) #
Alice Munro vs. Yankees/Sox? Thomas Hardy vs. Twins/Tigers?

Try "Read this chapter and answer these questions" vs. a spring training game, then decide. :)

H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:51 PM EST (#107010) #
Batista ends the 9th with a strike out. I'm glad Miguel got that one out of his system in spring training. Three walks and a hit batsman, and no runs.

5-5, mid 9th.
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:54 PM EST (#107011) #
Bottom of the 9th.

Huckaby leads off with a single
McDonald up.

5-5, one on, 0 out,
Jordan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:54 PM EST (#107012) #
I dunno -- I like the threesome that's going up against the BoSox. I'm just as glad that Chacin and Towers get the D-Rays, who are reeling right now -- their second baseman and cleanup hitter just retired on consecutive days. Great thrill for Dave Bush, getting the home opener -- good for him!
Jordan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:55 PM EST (#107013) #
Argggh -- Miguel, don't do that. Just don't.
H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:55 PM EST (#107014) #
McDonald bunts. Bobbled by the infielder.

first and second, nobody out
VBF - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:56 PM EST (#107015) #
This worries me a bit. The potential to get off to a bad start is there. There follows series away at Oakland, Texas, Boston, then home v New York. Yikes. We desperately don't want to fall a way behind .500 in the first month.

It worries me too, but pending a trade, there are really no better options. I have confidence that at least one of Towers and Chacin can come through for us. I mean, Josh isn't powerful but he has been solid in times when we counted on him most. I think he'll be alright while Chacin gets adjusted. As for Bush, I'm confident he can hold the fort at #2.

H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:56 PM EST (#107016) #
Reed Johnson singles, Huckaby scores

Jays win 6-5.

Good night, from Atlanta.
VBF - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 04:58 PM EST (#107017) #
Thanks H8!
rtcaino - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 05:01 PM EST (#107018) #
You da man H8.
Rob - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 06:06 PM EST (#107020) #
Yes, thank you to H8 and Nolan for their play-by-play. The narrative of the game was very important for the Game Report, and you'll find out why tomorrow when it's posted.

To save people the work of typing out the results for 162 games, we can get the play-by-play for every regular season game from ESPN.com's boxscores, but it's nice to have it here in the thread for the Spring Training games.

Thanks again, guys. I wouldn't have a Game Report if I didn't have the batter-by-batter rundown.
GeoffAtMac - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 06:07 PM EST (#107021) #
Some interesting comments about the whole Gross / Cat / Rios / Wells / Sparky situation. Here's my two cents (whether you wanted them or not):

I am as enamoured with Sparky's effort and hustle as everyone here, but I just don't see him being a piece in the long haul for better results in the Jays. He is, in my mind, more of an NL-style player, who I think might do better there, coming in off the bench, hitting for pithcers etc. In the AL, he seems destined to keep on playing second fiddle, as soon as someone like Gross comes along to knock him out of his "everyday" job.

I think the best plan is to let Gross come up now (or let him continue to get fired up in AAA for a little while longer -- but not too long), and platoon him (or eventually platoon him, depending on how he does in AAA) with Sparky. See how things are going at that point, and then they are simply going to have to trade someone, or send Gross back down, because I don't believe we have use for 5 outfielders -- that being said, I don't want to completely remove from my mind the horrible rash of injuries we suffered last year.

Conceiveably, we could use Menechino or even Hinske / Hillenbrand in an emergency, but I definitely see the need to preserve whatever limited outfield depth we have. So, in addition to deciding what to do with Gross, we have to make sure that Monsieur Rios is not a fluke himself (I am a believer in Rios though, I think he has the potential to be really, really good).

To whomever noted the Werth situation a few posts above, I agree that we don't want to throw away any more players of his calibre unnecessarily. I think that Frasor generally paid off, but Werth did hit 16 HR, 47 RBI in only 89 games...time will tell whether he becomes the next great prospect to move onto bigger things after leaving Toronto, or if his destiny is to become the next Reed Johnson.
Nolan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 06:32 PM EST (#107022) #
The mention of Werth got me thinking about the Ishii/Phillips trade, which led to thinking about the different thoughts that have been expressed here on the Box as to Towers and Chacin's trade value.

With this trade, their (Towers and Chacin) value has at least somewhat been established. Towers and Chacin have more upside than Ishii and a much less burdensome contract, so it could assumed that their trade value is at a little bit higher than Ishii's was.

It's at least a helpful benchmark to keep in mind when talking possible trades....
Magpie - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 06:56 PM EST (#107023) #
A couple of trivial points.

As for the ruling, Cone was signed as a free agent and traded that year, so I guess I am really in question, of the phrasing of the rule.

Cone wasn't signed as a free agent. The Jays traded Chris Stynes to KC to get him.

Reed did change to 3 for no particular reason.

No, he says he has always worn single digit numbers, and this year one there was one available for him.

Like I said, trivial.

H Winfield Teut - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 07:06 PM EST (#107024) #
You're right I sit corrected. Cone number 1 deal was for Kent and Thompson. Cone deal number 2 was for Stynes, Medrano and I believe one other player.
greenfrog - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 07:11 PM EST (#107025) #
Not to put a damper on Gross's spring--I'm thrilled--but didn't Pond also have a ripping spring last year, only to fade away when the season began?

I don't think any outfielders need to be traded yet. The Jays now have more competition at the position--and added injury insurance--but there are still some question marks, such as:

- Does Rios have what it takes to be an everyday big-league right-fielder?
- Can Cat and Wells stay injury-free?
- How will Wells respond after a subpar (for him) 2004?
- Has Gross taken his game to a new level, or is he just having a hot spring?

I don't think it makes a huge difference to the Jays future whether Gross starts 2005 at Syracuse or in the bigs, as long as he's playing full-time. For what it's worth, I would rather see Cat traded at the deadline (this year or next) when his value is at its peak. I also think he has a lot of value as a mentor for the up-and-coming Jays.
brels - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 07:30 PM EST (#107026) #
If Gross makes it when does he play?

April flies by with the off days....assuming the outfield can stay healthy at least at the beginning of the season the weeks will fly by.

A few weeks in the plattoon can have Cat, and/or Rios ticked off and the immediate second guessing that happens in platoon situations.

I say Gross in Syracuse to start then go from there. Do not trade him.

sweat - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 07:33 PM EST (#107027) #
http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/8287009
A little Q & A on Frank Menechino.
John Northey - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 07:37 PM EST (#107028) #
If the Jays want to give all the guys in the outfield/DH/1B mix playing time it seems fairly straightforward.

LF: Gross/Johnson platoon
1B: Hinske
DH: Catalanotto
mix and match between 1B and DH: Hillenbrand

Thus, Hillenbrand plays vs all lefties, giving either Cat or Hinske a day off. Johnson keeps Gross from being overworked in his rookie season.

Past 3 season splits for 3 lefties in the mix...
Cat vs LH 203/266/297 vs RH 305/367/469 (yikes)
Hinske vs LH 245/309/395 vs RH 261/346/443
Gross - unknown

Past 3 season splits for 2 righties in the mix...
Johnson vs LH 312/357/478 vs RH 266/324/365
Hillenbrand vs LH 299/342/475 vs RH 293/327/460

Depending how Gross/Hinske/Hillenbrand (since I think Johnson and Cat are fairly well established with their platoon spreads) all do the Jays would adjust playing time accordingly. Stronger defence, lots of lineup flexability, and a better team all around imo.

This would mean 5 outfielders, 7 infielders, 2 catchers, and 11 pitchers or leave the defense only guy (McDonald) in AAA until injuries force him up.
Rob - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 07:53 PM EST (#107031) #
Unfortunately, John McDonald is out of options, so he has to clear waivers to get sent down to Syracuse. Fortunately, it is John McDonald, so he might make it.

Eleven pitchers should work fine. Halladay, Bush, Chacin, Towers, Batista, Speier, League, Frasor, Schoeneweis, Chulk, Ligtenberg. When Lilly comes off the DL on April 10, send down Chulk or put Ligtenberg on the injured list. If you need another one, call up Glynn or Miller.

Having 12 pitchers just bugs me.
Ron - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 08:02 PM EST (#107032) #
Talking about whether the Jays have room for Gross at the big league level brings a smile to my face. It's nice to know the Jays have some depth and are currently healthy (Lilly and Koskie are just nicked up).

It could be a lot worse...... Let me present to you the Jays lineup vs. the D-Rays on June 29th of last year.

1. Menechino
2. Hudson
3. Johnson
4. Hinske
5. Gomez
6. Berg
7. Phelps
8. Cash
9. Rios

Look at the heart of the order ...... Johnson, Hinske, Gomez, and Berg.

And to make matters worse, Berg was playing LF and Gomez was at 1B.
VBF - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 08:08 PM EST (#107033) #
I was at that series which included a 19-13 loss against the Rays which was worse because it was in front of the kids and I had brought a reluctant friend who was less than impressed.

No, he says he has always worn single digit numbers, and this year one there was one available for him.

You're right Magpie but if it was the case, why did he not change it last year when that number was available? That's why I speculate he may have changed it this year for some other reason.

VBF - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 08:20 PM EST (#107035) #
"RogersCentre05" a poster at Blue Jay Way has posted some pictures of the new Rogers Centre on this website:

http://community.webshots.com/album/301705424vxrtFA

Rob - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 08:34 PM EST (#107036) #
Actually, Thor wore #3 last year. (That's Chris Gomez, for those who don't remember the HAMMER OF WISDOM.)

And the O-Dog had #3 in 2003, so this is the first time Johnson could use it. Maybe he wore 3 and 7 at different points in the minors, and 37 seemed like an obvious choice.

VBF - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 08:37 PM EST (#107038) #
Aw crap, you're right. How could I have forgotten that. I'm supposed to know that. Geez.
Named For Hank - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 08:44 PM EST (#107039) #
Let me present to you the Jays lineup vs. the D-Rays on June 29th of last year...

Oh oh, I wanted to figure this out...what was the payroll for those guys and how much payroll was on the Yankee DL on the same day?

H8 The Braves - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 09:15 PM EST (#107042) #
Ron, thank you for the reality check. Depth is vital in MLB. Now no team has depth enough to replace a Delgado or a Halladay, but think of players at Syracuse like Gross, Crozier and Quiroz ready to step in. And at some point, even Hill or Hattig might be ready to step up. And we should have way more depth at pitching than last year. Last year, our depth was players like Berg and Douglass and Nakamura. Ouch.
Matthew E - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 09:21 PM EST (#107043) #

1) John Cerutti ceremony. 2) Bobby Mattick ceremony. 3) Possible Doug Ault ceremony.

Don't forget Peter Widdrington. Man, it's been a rough year.

Nolan - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 09:52 PM EST (#107046) #
Don't forget Peter Widdrington. Man, it's been a rough year.

I am not familiar with the name; could you share who this is?

Thanks, I appreciate it.

jsoh - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 10:02 PM EST (#107047) #
I am not familiar with [Peter Widdrington]

All Hail Google! Our friend and master!

Peter Widdrington 1930-2005

H Winfield Teut - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 10:23 PM EST (#107050) #
Interesting and somewhat valid comparison between Pond and Gross. Pond always seems to tear up spring and fall leagues. Yet, when you compare Pond and Gross you can not compare that one is in an organizations plans and the other wasnt. Pond played his way on to the backend of the bench. Gross is a top prospect. The two although statistically may put up similar springs, can not be compared because of how they are viewed at the time they put up those numbers. Pat Lennon, Sam Horn, etc... always put up hot early numbers, but had nowhere to go. That is why if Gross goes North, he goes as a starter.
6-4-3 - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 10:38 PM EST (#107051) #
Because you demanded it:

Jays lineup costs, June 29th: 4.14 million (if you're feeling generous, add Lilly, Chulk, and Frasor to get to 8.04 million)

Yankees DL, June 29th: 17.8 million (Brown, DePaula, Lee, and El Duque). But, Giambi had just gone down for his parasites. If you include Giambi, that's 31.8 million. (Brewers payroll as of opening day: 29 million)
Rob - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 10:45 PM EST (#107053) #
Jays On-Field Payroll on June 29th (Dugout Dollars for salary numbers):
Menechino 310
Hudson 320
Johnson 320
Hinske 2950
Gomez 750
Berg 700
Phelps 340
Cash 300
Rios 300
TOTAL 6.29 million

Yankees' DL Salary on June 29th:
Heredia 1900
DePaula 300
Lee 2250
Brown 15000
TOTAL 19.45 million
Rob - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 10:46 PM EST (#107054) #
6.29, 4.14...same difference. :)

How did you figure out who was on the DL on June 29, 6-4-3?
Ducey - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 10:52 PM EST (#107056) #
"If you need another one, call up Glynn or Miller."

I think they are both out of options - how you going to get them down in the first place?
forest fest - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 10:54 PM EST (#107057) #
Let me present to you the Jays lineup vs. the D-Rays on June 29th of last year...

Despite the Jays loosing that game 19-13, I will remember it because when O-Dawg and Berg hit 3 run shots in the ninth, the fans gave standing ovations. These ovations were much grander than the one Halladay got in 2003 after giving up a double to Kevin Witt, ending his no hit bid against the tigers.

Back to the topic, that line-up against the Rays is the kinda weak line-up that will show up at some point this year too I suspect. So leave Gross down and bring him up then when he'll get playing time.
Rob - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 10:59 PM EST (#107058) #
how you going to get them down in the first place?

Well, if the Jays lose them on waivers, they're sure to pick up two other AAAA pitchers. Sean Douglass and Mike Nakamura were those two pitchers last year.

Or, stick Pete Walker in the back of the 'pen. Or Steve Downs. Or Jason Arnold, if there are no other options. Do the Jays still have Josue Matos?

John Northey - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 11:01 PM EST (#107059) #
Guys on wavers are always a risk when you send them down. However, someone else must want them first for it to be a risk. McDonald is not exactly what I'd consider a big risk if he is sent down. I agree that a 6 man bullpen is more than enough (still don't know why we can't go with a 5 man one). Still, I'm sure the guys who run ML teams have their reasons for wanting to kill off the bench. I prefer a platoon at a position vs a platoon out of the pen myself.
6-4-3 - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 11:09 PM EST (#107062) #
The only difference in our payroll numbers is Hinske: Dugout Dollars has him costing 2.95 million against the cap (luxury tax) but only actually costing 800,000.

And I got the DL stuff from the transaction guy at all-baseball. Did a click to get all Yankees transactions, then filtered through the DL transactions.
mistermike - Monday, March 21 2005 @ 11:16 PM EST (#107064) #
Start Gross in the minors. There will be room for him eventually. I am almost certain Hinske will have earned a spot on the bench by mid-June.
Chuck - Tuesday, March 22 2005 @ 01:16 AM EST (#107073) #
Start Gross in the minors. There will be room for him eventually. I am almost certain Hinske will have earned a spot on the bench by mid-June.

Or Koskie will be hurt. Or Catalanotto will be hurt. Or Rios will be struggling.

Something will happen. It always does. Sometimes so much happens you're stuck playing Dave Berg in left field.

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