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As Spring Training winds down and the regular season starts to peek over the horizon, the Toronto Blue Jays face their old, er, new rivals from Philadelphia for the final time this year.

No radio or TV in Toronto, though the Jays home crew are doing an internet-only broadcast for MLB Gameday subscribers.
Spring Training: Philly at Toronto | 100 comments | Create New Account
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dave - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 01:00 PM EST (#108108) #
Starters:

Offerman-DH
Utley-2B
Burrell-LF
Thome-1B
Michaels-CF
Bell-3B
Lieberthal-C
T.Perez-SS
Budzinski-RF

Lieber

Cat-LF
Hudson-2B
Wells-CF
Koskie-3B
Hillenbrand-DH
Hinske-1B
Zaun-C
Johnson-RF
Adams-SS

Halladay
jsut - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 01:07 PM EST (#108110) #
Brian B. - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 01:12 PM EST (#108112) #
Can you do a little bit of pbp, dave?
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 01:13 PM EST (#108113) #
No score in top of first...
Doc pitching to Burrell with 2 0ut in the inning...2-0 count and Doc works back to 2-2. 3-2, curve outside. Fastball inside and walks him.
Jim Thome; Doc walks Thome on a 3-1 outside fastball.
Jason Michaels up, chopped to short, backhanded by Adams and the throw doesn't get the runner. Infield basehit, bases loaded. Apparently Adams one hopped it to Hinske and he should have had it. Tom says Adams made a very good play to get to the ball.
David Bell up-struck out on a cut fastball on a 1-2 count.

0-0 going to bottom of first...

Apparently Rios and Gross will be platooning for about the first week.
dave - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 01:14 PM EST (#108114) #
Shaky first for Halladay

Offerman and Utley fly out to left
Burrell and Thome walk
Michaels reaches on infield single (sounds like Hinske should've been able to scoop it)
Bell strikes out with the bases loaded

no score
kpataky - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 01:15 PM EST (#108116) #
Rios and Gross are platooning w/ the bench today...
Brian B. - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 01:16 PM EST (#108117) #
Thanks Nolan and dave.
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 01:22 PM EST (#108118) #
You want to do the pbp Dave? Or should I?

Cat up...hitting .317 this spring...popped up to first, one out.
ODog up, batting lefthanded against Lieber- chopped over the mound and baseman, Thomas Perez gloves it...throw not in time, infield hit.
Vernon up, one on and one out. Pops up at plate, but drifts out of play. Count now at 1-2 after a slider. Strike three on another slider.
2 out.
Koskie up...hitting .238 this spring...(this spring, Lieber has walked 4 in 25 innings)...count now at 3-2...fouled off, still 3-2...strike three on a fast ball.

0-0, end of one
jsut - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 01:24 PM EST (#108120) #

Tom says...

Is that a typo or is Mr Cheek actually casting the game?

Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 01:24 PM EST (#108121) #
That was a typo, sorry.

I meant Jerry.
Named For Hank - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 01:28 PM EST (#108122) #
Jon Lieber! Jon Lieber!

Someone down in Florida needs to start bangin' a drum -- apparently it drives the guy nuts.

Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 01:28 PM EST (#108123) #
Top of second:

Lieberthal lines the first pitch up the middle for a single.
Thomas Perez up. Doc gets strike two on a changeup. Perez lines the 1-2 pitch right at Cat. 1 out.
Mark Budzinski grounds it to Hinske who steps on the bag. 2 out. Runner now on second.
Jose Offerman up...shallow fly to center and vernon makes the 3rd out.

End of the top of the 2nd, still scoreless.
kpataky - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 01:32 PM EST (#108124) #
So its David Bush vs. David Wells in the Home Opener. Boomer is coming home!
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 01:35 PM EST (#108125) #
Bottom of 2nd:

Shea up and is an 0-2 hole right away...broken bat weak grounder to third...Bell throws Shea out.
1 out.
Apparently Tom is at this game? I think that's what I heard...
Hinske hits a hard grounder to first. Thome makes a good play. 2 out.
Yep, Tom might drop in to say in the 3rd of 4th.
Zaun up...3-2 count..Zaun pops it up to Burrell. 3 out.

End of 2nd, still 0-0.
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 01:35 PM EST (#108126) #
...to say *hi* in the 3rd or 4th inning...
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 01:43 PM EST (#108127) #
Top of 3rd:

Chase Utley up; Doc gets strike one with a good changeup (good to see Doc use the pitch). Doc strikes Utley out on a fastball. 1 out.
Pat Burrell at the plate...count goes to 1-2...Doc strikes out Burrell for out number 2. Got the strikeout on a "nasty" slider.
Thome grounds the ball into the outfield for a single. Jays had the shift on, but Thome grounds it the other way into leftfield.
Michaels up, count runs full...Doc strikes out the side!

End of the top of the 2nd, still scoreless.
Named For Hank - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 01:46 PM EST (#108128) #
The pbp is much appreciated, thanks.
kpataky - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 01:50 PM EST (#108130) #
Phillies left fielder Burrell loses the ball in the sky and the ball drops in for a single allowing Russ Adams to score and its 2-0 Jays.
kpataky - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 01:54 PM EST (#108131) #
Hillenbrand dumps a base hit into left and its 3-0 Jays.
rtcaino - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 01:57 PM EST (#108132) #
I just bought MLB game day. So if you guys need a sub in for the PBP let me know.
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 01:57 PM EST (#108133) #
I had a big inning recap, but apparently it is spam...so I can't post it.
Named For Hank - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 01:59 PM EST (#108134) #
That's weird, Nolan. Let me ask Joe about how the spam filter works.

Did you mention offshore pharmacies or impressing your wife in the post?
kpataky - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:00 PM EST (#108135) #
Home Run Lieberthal and its 3-1 Jays.
rtcaino - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:01 PM EST (#108136) #
Lieberthal just hit a dinger. Sawkiw called it a monster shot, and Jerry added it was Majestic.
It was Doc's third ST homerun.
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:01 PM EST (#108137) #
Top of the 4th:

Bell grounds to Doc, who throws him out. 1 down.
Lieberthal up...hits deep fly over Cat for a solo homerun.
3-1 Jays.
T. Perez up now...
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:02 PM EST (#108139) #
Doc strikes out Perez.
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:06 PM EST (#108141) #
Hudson makes a good play to get to Budzinski's grounder, Hinske makes a good dig to get the throw, but the runner just beats it. Infield hit.
Offerman up...hit up the middle, Hudson grabs it and flips it to Adams at second for the out.

End of top of the 4th, 3-1 Jays.
Pepper Moffatt - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:06 PM EST (#108142) #
Did you mention offshore pharmacies or impressing your wife in the post?

Sean Connery: I've got to ask you about the Penis Mightier.

Alex Trebek: What? No. No, no, that is The Pen is Mightier.

Sean Connery: Gussy it up however you want, Trebek. What matters is does it work? Will it really mighty my penis, man?

kpataky - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:11 PM EST (#108143) #
Gabe Gross has unofficially officially made this team and will start in right field Monday vs. the Rays. He will platoon with Rios.
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:11 PM EST (#108144) #
Bottom of 4th:

Zaun pops out to Bell for the first out.
Sparky up...hits a lazy fly into center...2 down.
Russ Adams up...basehit drops in front of Burrell.
Cat up...


Gross made the club, with Gross starting the season opener.
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:13 PM EST (#108145) #
Cat walks on a full count...runners on 1st and 2nd.
Hudson up...grounds to second. Inning over.

End of 4 innings, 3-1 Jays.
kpataky - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:13 PM EST (#108146) #
2nd game vs. Devil Rays with Kazmir (a lefty) starting Adams will sit and MacDonald will start.
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:18 PM EST (#108148) #
Hmmm, I've been trying to make this post a couple times but it's always deleted as "spam"...so I'll try to word it differently:

The Jays hitting coach had some work done on his eyeball today and one of the after effects of this is that he won't be able to travel through the air in an air gliding machine for at least 3 or 4 weeks...

Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:19 PM EST (#108149) #
Top of 5th:

Chase Utley up...grounds out to Hudson. 1 out.
Burrell up...count goes full and Doc strikes him out on an excellent curve.
Thome grounds out to first...inning over.

binnister - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:23 PM EST (#108151) #
air glide machine

You mean the filter isn't letting your say 'airplane'?

Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:24 PM EST (#108153) #
Bottom of 5th:

WooHoo..our best friend Terry Adams is pitching...

Vernon Wells up...count goes to full...(Adams will be receiving a WS ring from the Sox)...hit to second for the first out.
Koskie up...deep belt...going...GONE! Homerun Koskie! 4-1 Jays.
kpataky - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:24 PM EST (#108154) #
Yahtzee - Koskie HRs deep and its 4-1 ! That ball was tagged!
rtcaino - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:25 PM EST (#108155) #
"High, long drive. Yes sir, there she goes. Home run Corey Koskie."
Named For Hank - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:25 PM EST (#108156) #
I don't know how the filter works, but I just had a look in the logs and it seems to think that you're trying to post about some drug related to the retina.
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:26 PM EST (#108157) #
"You mean the filter isn't letting your say 'airplane'?"

I really don't know. I tried posting that about 6 times, changing names and words each time. So that last time i tried to change any word that might have triggered the filter.
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:27 PM EST (#108158) #
Shea grounds out...2 down.
Hinske up...strikes out. Inning done.

End of the 5th, 4-1 Jays.
robertdudek - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:29 PM EST (#108159) #
I'm watching the Bosox-Rays game. Phelps pinch-hits against Matt Mantei. He drives a fastball on the outside corner for an opposite field homerun. If they play him everday, Phelpsie just might have a big year and turn his career around.

This is his year 26-27 season.

As an aside, have you noticed how many ex-Jays the Rays have? Phelps, Gonzo, Trever Miller, Hendrickson and Cash.
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:30 PM EST (#108160) #
"You mean the filter isn't letting your say 'airplane'?"

Heh..I guess that wasn't the problem as you just posted it :)
binnister - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:32 PM EST (#108162) #
Re: Phelps

Hmm...considing how many lefty starters we have, we might be seeing him more than Jay Fan's would like.
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:35 PM EST (#108163) #
Top of the 6th:

Doc has K'd 6 today.

Michaels up...driven to the gap and Vernon can't get to it. Double by Michaels. Apparently Vernon had to make a huge leap to cut off the ball.
Koskie grabs a shot by Bell and throws him out. 1 out.
Michaels goes to third.
Lieberthal flies to left and Cat makes a tremendous sliding catch to make the out. Runner tags and scores.
4-2 Jays.
Jerry has been very impressed by Cat's defense this spring.
2 out.
Perez up...Doc walks Perez on 4 straight...that's the 4th walk today by Doc.
Budzinski up...Doc strikes him out, number 7.

End of the top of the 6th, 4-2 Jays.
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:37 PM EST (#108164) #
"I'm watching the Bosox-Rays game. Phelps pinch-hits against Matt Mantei. He drives a fastball on the outside corner for an opposite field homerun. If they play him everday, Phelpsie just might have a big year and turn his career around."


How is Mantei throwing? Does he still have mid-90's velocity?
robertdudek - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:42 PM EST (#108165) #
About 93 in the inning I watched, but the fastball was pretty straight.
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:43 PM EST (#108166) #
Bottom of 6th:

Ryan Madson in to pitch for the Phils.

Zaun up...pitch drilled to right for a base hit.
Sparky up...foul tip on an 0-2 count, caught for the out.
1 out.
Russ up at-bat; Rudd grounds to first and Thome goes to second for the force. Perez holds onto the ball. No 3-6-3, just a 3-6. Russ is not the runner on first.
2 out.
Cat up.
Russ Adams gets a great jump and steals second. He's 2 for 2 this spring.
Cat grounds out to Thome for the 3rd out.

End of the 6th, 4-2 Jays.
Max Parkinson - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:48 PM EST (#108168) #
Robert,

The Rays currently employ a former Ass't GM (Wilken) and Farm Director (Hoff) of the Jays, so it's no real surprise that some of these guys' former favourites (such as Phelps) would have jobs with the Rays...
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:49 PM EST (#108169) #
Top of the 7th:

Brandon League comes in to relieve Halladay.

League has a 3.60 era this spring with 10 K's and 5 walks (missed his innings pitched total).

Offerman up...count goes to 3-2...Jose grounds to Hudson.
1 out.
Utley up and grounds out to second.
2 out.
Pat Burrell up...grounds the ball to Koskie who throws him out.

End of the top of the 7th, 4-2 Jays.

Great inning by League.
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:52 PM EST (#108170) #
Bottom of 7th:

Pedro Liriano in to pitch.

Brian Hitchcock at second now for the Phils.

Hudson strikes out in three pitches. 1 out.
Vernon up...
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:55 PM EST (#108171) #
Sorry I missed the end of ther inning, but I think Vernon and Koskie went down quietly...
rtcaino - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:56 PM EST (#108172) #
V-Dub grounded out. And Koskie struck out.
kpataky - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:56 PM EST (#108173) #
Gross enters the game in left for Cat and Rios is now in right.
kpataky - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 02:59 PM EST (#108175) #
Phillies go up 5-4 on a Nate Grindell 3 run bomb.
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:00 PM EST (#108176) #
Top of 8th:

Huckaby in for Zaun.
Nelson in for Koskie.
Schoenwiss in to pitch.

Phils have two on
Nate Grindal hits a three run homer off of Scott Schoenwiss
kpataky - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:06 PM EST (#108177) #

Nate Grindell ex Cleveland Indians farm hand

Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:08 PM EST (#108178) #
*Schoeneweis* strikes out Lieberthal, one out.
Perez grounds out to Adams who makes a great play to throw Perez out. 2 out.
Budzinski up...Schoeneweis walks him.
Offerman up...Budzinski steals second and Huckaby throws it into cf...Budzinski is hurt and stays at second.
Offerman still up...Schoeneweis delivers a wild pitch over Huckaby...Bud goes to third...and Offerman walks on the next pitch.
2 out, runners on 1st and 3rd. 5-4 Phils.
Hitchcock up; Schoeneweis strikes him out.

End of the top of the 8th, 5-4 Phils.
kpataky - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:11 PM EST (#108180) #
Hilly HRs deep off Waggner and its tied at 5!
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:12 PM EST (#108181) #
Bottom of the 8th:

Billy Wagner in to pitch, who has had a band ST- 16 hits in 8 2/3 innings.

Shea up...and he belts it deep! Homerun! 5-5 Jays!

17 hits in 8 2/3 innings...

Hinske up...
Mick Doherty - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:14 PM EST (#108182) #
Batter's Box guest Jamey Newberg, of NMLR fame, reports:

The Rangers have announced that they have acquired lefthander Matt Riley and catcher Keith McDonald from Baltimore for outfielder Ramon Nivar. As good a kid as Nivar is, and as intriguing as his tools are, I'm thrilled with this deal. Matt Riley could end up being Orel Hershiser's magnum opus.

Potentially a terrific deal for the Rangers, also showing how far Nivar's star has fallen recently, meaning it could work out for the O's, too, if they can determin just whatinhell happened to Ramon.

Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:14 PM EST (#108183) #
Hinske up...pops out to the outfield. 1 out.
Huckaby drives deep to left for the second out.
Alex Rios up for his first at-bat this game...chops it Perez at short for the 3rd out.

End of the 8th, score tied at 5
kpataky - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:19 PM EST (#108184) #
They are talking about how Gabe Gross is looming on deck in the 9th for the Jays. "Could it be that #9 could win it for the Jays. Gabe - not Babe!"
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:19 PM EST (#108185) #
Top of the 9th:

Jason Frasor in to pitch- No runs allowed and only 1 hit allowed in 6 innings this spring. Apparently his command has greatly

Frasor strikes out someone on a great slider. 1 out.
Ryan Flander(?) grounds to second. 2 out.
Duschene(sp?) up...lifted to left center and Vernon makes an over the shoulder catch.

End of the top of the 9th, score tied at 5.
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:20 PM EST (#108186) #
Top of the 9th:

Jason Frasor in to pitch- No runs allowed and only 1 hit allowed in 6 innings this spring. Apparently his command has greatly improved this spring.

Frasor strikes out someone on a great slider. 1 out.
Ryan Flander(?) grounds to second. 2 out.
Duschene(sp?) up...lifted to left center and Vernon makes an over the shoulder catch.

End of the top of the 9th, score tied at 5.
kpataky - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:21 PM EST (#108187) #

Jim Deschaine used to play with Gabe Gross and Alexis Rios with the New Haven Ravens in 2003.

Scully - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:23 PM EST (#108188) #
Responding to the Riley trade -- It's a dreadful deal for the Orioles. Nivar is terrible -- he had one fluky-good bating-average driven year in 2003, and has no power and bad baserunning instincts despite his speed. The rest of his minor league career screams "AAA utility man" (interestingly, it also screams "Devil Rays.")

Be happy Jays fans, the Orioles just made themselves worse, and squandered one of their better pieces of trade bait.
kpataky - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:25 PM EST (#108189) #
Base hit for Gross!! Puny single up the middle.
Gardiner West - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:25 PM EST (#108190) #
Great deal for the Rangers, not sure what the Orioles are thinking. Why would you deal a lefty with big upside for a player no better than Luis Matos? Previous poster was right, Hershiser might turn this kid into Ron Guidry.
kpataky - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:26 PM EST (#108192) #
Base hit dropped inside the rf line by Alpharo. Gross into third. Winning run on 3rd.
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:27 PM EST (#108193) #
Sorry about the double post...

Bottom of the 9th:

Franco in to pitch for the Phils. Is this John Franco that's pitching? Last I heard, he was with the Astros...

Russ Adams leads off...and Russ strikes out. 1 out.
The Babe is up now...broken bat ground ball up the middle- single.

Jerry: "and he'll have to settle for a puny base hit up the middle..."

Jason Alfaro up...looped to the right side and it's...fair! Runners on first and third. 1 out.
Vernon up...infield drawn in...
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:28 PM EST (#108194) #
Vernon up...count is 1-2...ground ball up the middle!! Gross scores! Jays win!
kpataky - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:28 PM EST (#108195) #
Infield drawn in. Wells up. Gross leads off third. Base hit up middle - game over 6-5 Jays!!!
H Winfield Teut - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:28 PM EST (#108196) #
Is that a good thing? Turning a pitcher into Ron Guidry? Guidry is 54, and hasnt pitched since 88. I think Hersh is a good coach and a great individual, but how many coaches has Riley had, and all havent brought him to that elite status he was supposed to have? What is Hersh's record of turning projects into stars?
Mick Doherty - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:29 PM EST (#108197) #
Okay, I was thinking the same thing, but trying to be nice to the Orioles. Giving Beatagan the benefit of the doubt, I guess. As for "turning him into Ron Guidry," the Rangers would be thrilled if Hershiser turned him into John Burkett.
Pepper Moffatt - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:30 PM EST (#108198) #
Using PECOTA to translate the deal into 80's terms we have:

Riley for Nivar =

Rod Scurry (1982) for Jackie Gutierrez (1985)

Gutierrez played for the Red Sox in 85 as a semi-regular and didn't hit at all. Then he collected around 200 at-bats total for the Orioles (1986 and 1987) and Phillies (1988) and didn't hit at all. Again.

Scurry had a couple above-average years for the Pirates as a reliever (1982 and 1984), a bad year (1983), and some pretty average years with the Yankees (1985 and 1986) and Mariners (1988). He was out of baseball at age 32.

Overall I'd say the Rangers win, but it's likely these guys won't amount to much for any of the teams involved.
Nolan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:30 PM EST (#108199) #
Good game, fun times.
kpataky - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:31 PM EST (#108200) #

Martire Franco

- not John Franco
Mick Doherty - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:31 PM EST (#108201) #
What is Hersh's record of turning projects into stars?

He may just be living for now in the afterglow of Ryan Drese.

Gardiner West - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:31 PM EST (#108202) #
Guidry at 54 is still better than Chan Ho Park at 31.
Gardiner West - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:33 PM EST (#108203) #
What's Bill Pecota got to do with this deal?
kpataky - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:34 PM EST (#108204) #
better than Schoeneweis at 31 also ...
Mike D - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:36 PM EST (#108205) #

Look, I know that spring training games don't count. But I think that exhibition wins -- for this particular team -- have been really good for the Jays. This is a team with plenty to prove, as evidenced by their absurd 28th-place preseason rankings. I like that they've been playing competitively from the get-go. It can only mean good things for both personal tuning-up and clubhouse bonding.

Bottom line: winning can't hurt.

Gardiner West - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:43 PM EST (#108206) #
Getting back to this come from behind win.

Excellent. I know everyone discounts Grapefruit League games, but this group has to "learn" to win all over again.

We thought they had it after 2003, but unfortunately injuries and Carlos Tosca's inconsistent style knocked this group off kilter. It's good that most of the youngsters that we are counting on had John Gibbons as their first manager in the bigs, or lived through the firing.

It seems that Gibbons' style will up-tempo and forcing the issue. The loss of Delgado will not be as severe if this team hustles, takes the extra base and scratches out games that they would have lost in '04. And I would expect that Hillenbrand and Koskie will play harder than Delgado ever did. Not that Carlos didn't play hard, just that Shea and Corey have more gears than Delgado.

This team will finish a solid third with a 83-79 record.
Terran - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:47 PM EST (#108207) #
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpa2lpNnFzBF9TAzk1ODYxNzc3BHNlYwN0bQ--?slug=rs-spring05aleast&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Another prediction having Toronto battling Tampa Bay for 4th. Hopefully Toronto'll prove the analysists wrong >_>
Gitz - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:52 PM EST (#108208) #
I'm sorry, is that RYNE SANDBERG doing predictions? Not another HOF second baseman turned "analyst"!
Cristian - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 03:57 PM EST (#108209) #
www.mcsweeneys.net has its AL preview up. Here's what's on tap for the Jays this year...

With the Expos moving to Washington, and hockey still on hiatus, Canadians are aching for sports. Record crowds come through the SkyDome turnstiles, making the team the biggest money maker in all of baseball. Taking a cue from Big Stein, the profits are put back into the team, signing every big-money free agent there is. Seeing the Blue Jays' success, Major League Baseball creates another franchise in Canada, the Canadian Dry Ginger Ales. Along with the return of hockey, the Ales drastically cut into the Blue Jays' profits, causing the team to disband before the start of next season.

http://www.mcsweeneys.net/links/fantasybball/30whatwillhappenam.html
mistermike - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 04:02 PM EST (#108210) #
I'm sorry, is that RYNE SANDBERG doing predictions? Not another HOF second baseman turned "analyst"!

Hate to say it, but he makes valid points in his Jays analysis:

  • Not much power in the lineup
  • Rotation after Halladay is below average (Bush, Lilly, Towers, etc.
  • Question mark at closer.

    Hard to disagree with that.

  • Joe - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 04:02 PM EST (#108211) #
    Finally, a realistic preview!
    cwally - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 05:34 PM EST (#108216) #
    Sandberg also predicts the White Sox will win the wild card...
    Ryan C - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 05:50 PM EST (#108217) #
    Rotation after Halladay is below average (Bush, Lilly, Towers, etc.

    So what is the "average" major league pitcher? And are Bush and Lilly really below that? My personal feeling is heck no, but Id love to see someone cruch the numbers rather than just throwing out the phrase "below average" or "above average" to back their case.

    rogerscentre2005 - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 06:07 PM EST (#108218) #
    was down at the rogers centre today took some photos of the field turf and jumbotron community.webshots.com/user/kevinmacbrideoreboards--
    enjoy...

    are go to bluejaysway.ca.
    Joe - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 06:27 PM EST (#108220) #
    Wow! Thanks, Kevin. I've been looking forward to seeing the way the new boards look for a while.

    Looks like the replacement for the Jumbotron doesn't look particularly different, but the ribbon boards around the facing of the walls are a nice change. The colour of the turf looks a lot better, too.

    You can see Kevin's Roger's Centre gallery, or visit Blue Jay Way.

    King Ryan - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 07:12 PM EST (#108223) #
    Lilly's ERA was 20% better than average in 2004; Bush's was 32% better (in limited innings, of course.) Towers' was 5% worse than average, but probably average-to above average among fifth starters.
    Brett - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 07:20 PM EST (#108224) #
    So what is the "average" major league pitcher?

    The AL average ERA last year was 4.63. Starting pitchers, however, had a 4.84 ERA. Jays' starters in 2004 had a 4.85 ERA - a little better than average, when you take their park into account. Pretty decent, considering what happened to Halladay and Hentgen.

    I think it would be a great disappointment if Toronto's starting pitching is below average in 2005. They have holes and weaknesses - but so do the other 13 teams. And most of them don't have a veteran as good as Doc, or a kid as good as Bush.

    (This stuff is getting harder to figure out, now that ESPN has systematically destroyed what was once a fine website.)

    Lefty - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 08:31 PM EST (#108225) #
    There was a perfect match. I'm pretty impressed by the potential of Riley being upper echelon starter. A change of organizations will do the million dollar arm a world of good.

    On the O's aquisition of Nivar. I think they have two Matos now. Roll the dice and see who comes out on top and patrols center for the next few years.

    Finally Texas has made a move to improve their greatest deficiency and they did it trading from strength. Balt. on the other hand can't be feeling very good right now. They couldn't straighten this kid out.
    uglyone - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 08:41 PM EST (#108226) #
    [quote]Rotation after Halladay is below average (Bush, Lilly, Towers, etc.[/quote]

    Lilly was one of the top 15 starters in the AL last year.

    Hard to see how that makes him a "below average" #2.
    Rob - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 09:33 PM EST (#108228) #
    Well, let's look at Jonny German's empirical definitions for the #1 through #5 starting pitcher labels and see what the Jays' "rotation after Halladay" is like. Using Jonny's findings:
     
    Pitcher 	GS 	IP      H/9 	BB/9 	K/9 	HR/9 	ERA 	VORP 
    #2 Starter 	29 	185 	8.8 	2.9 	6.4 	1.0 	3.91    32.1
    Ted Lilly       32      197     7.8     4.1     7.7     1.2     4.06    44.6
    	
    #3 Starter 	27 	163 	9.2 	3.1 	5.9 	1.1 	4.31 	20.3
    Dave Bush       16       98     9.3     2.3     5.9     1.0     4.80    20.6
    
    #4 Starter 	23 	138 	9.7 	3.4 	5.7 	1.2 	4.87 	 8.2
    #5 Starter 	22 	123 	10.4 	3.8 	5.6 	1.4 	5.76    -5.2
    Josh Towers     21      116     11.4    2.0     3.9     1.2     5.11    10.5

    In short, Lilly = above average for a #2, Bush = average for a #3, Towers = way above average for a #5, or average if you consider him a #4.

    I don't know how Chacin will do, so we can't say his spot in the rotation is good or bad yet. It's clear, however, that the rotation Sandberg quotes behind Halladay -- Lilly, Bush, Towers -- is not below average, no matter how you look at it. It's not a valid point.

    Of course, "not much power" and "questionable closer" are definite problems, so Ryno went 2-for-3 here.

    Lefty - Wednesday, March 30 2005 @ 10:48 PM EST (#108231) #
    Rob, not exactly leaping to Ryno's defense here, but throwing up a bunch of stats whether last seasons or this seasons Pecota projections or whatever does not necessarily make Sandberg wrong. I think he is stating his opinion on what he predicts the Toronto staff to look like this year.

    Personally I don't think its a big deal if he thinks the staff will be this years over achievers. Opinions are like ##sholes; everybodies got one. Bottom line, we'll know what their stats are once they start playing for real.
    Rob - Thursday, March 31 2005 @ 02:59 PM EST (#108334) #
    You're right, Lefty. Sandberg can say whatever he wants, but it doesn't matter once they start playing. The same goes for us, too. Batista could save 40 or 4, who knows?

    Actually, I wanted to see how Towers stacked up to the #4 and #5 "spots" and I was surprised that we was not worse than most Number Fours.
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