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A cofee and a bagel might be more appropriate today than a beer and a hotdog. It's an 11 am start for the Boston Marathon/Patriots Day game.

David Bush goes for the good guys against some guy called Schilling.

The game is apparently on the Rogers promotional channels not on Sportsnet.

Lineups:

Toronto:

F. Catalanotto lf
G. Zaun c
S. Hillenbrand 3b
C. Koskie dh
V. Wells cf
E. Hinske 1b
A. Rios rf
O. Hudson 2b
R. Adams ss

Boston:

J. Damon cf
T. Nixon rf
M. Ramirez lf
D. Ortiz dh
K. Millar 1b
E. Renteria ss
J. Varitek c
B. Mueller 3b
M. Bellhorn 2b

Game 14: Morning Ball | 167 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Jordan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 10:47 AM EDT (#112370) #
The surprises keep on coming from John Gibbons. Vernon's back in the lineup, but he's batting fifth -- I can't remember the last time he wasn't in the #3 spot. Gregg Zaun, two-hole hitter? Whatever works, I guess. Give Gibbons credit -- he's not afraid to mix it up.

Anonymous - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 10:49 AM EDT (#112371) #
With no more roundups, I'm not sure where to post this, but the game hasn't started yet, so I think I'm safe here...

Here's a copy/paste paragraph from the Toronto Star today about the Yankees looking into a new stadium:

The new stadium will be built just north of the existing facility in the Bronx, and is designed to seat 50,800. That's smaller than the current 57,478, but the new ballpark will have more luxury suites. Construction will cost about $800 million (U.S.) and be fully paid for by the team.

$800 million paid fully by the team? Wow, we were happy Ted put up the $25 to pick up the pieces of Skydome.
Spartan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 10:50 AM EDT (#112373) #
I like the lineup. Zaun has been very selective and has shown much more dicipline than Hudson. Plus Zaun has been doing the little things like hitting to the right side to get a guy to 3rd.

Hillenbrand is leading the AL in hits right now, it makes sense to put him in the 3 spot.
Mike Green - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:06 AM EDT (#112377) #
The bottom 3 hitters in the Jay lineup today are probably going to finish the season with similar or better numbers than the top 3 hitters in the lineup. 20 years ago when the Jays had Barfield and Fernandez at the bottom of the lineup, I was bothered by it. Now, I realize that it matters very little as long as the best hitters play. If we are to have a replay of 1985, that would be sweet and I will not let unusual lineup selections spoil the fun.
Named For Hank - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:09 AM EDT (#112378) #
As an about-to-be stay-at-home dad, I would love some 11 am games in Toronto. Of course, I don't think anyone but me and Theo would be in the stands.

Am I right in thinking that this is the only baseball game played by any team this season that starts before noon?
mistermike - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:13 AM EDT (#112380) #
If Zaun is good enough to hit second in the lineup, why wasn't he good enough to pinch hit for Russ Adams yesterday (rather than McDonald)?

Doesn't seem to be much consistency in the day-to-day thinking.
Named For Hank - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:13 AM EDT (#112381) #
Hillenbrand seems to react well to booing.
Named For Hank - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:15 AM EDT (#112382) #
Mistermike, wasn't yesterday a lefty-righty splits thing with Zaun?

"Consistency" is overrated if it doesn't work, anyways. Maybe Gibbons was playing a hunch.
Jordan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:15 AM EDT (#112383) #
Looks like Schilling brought his A game today.
NYJaysFan36 - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:16 AM EDT (#112384) #
NFH,

I don't know about the major leagues, but the Rochester Red Wings (Twins AAA Affiliate) are having a game at 9:35AM on August 9th against the Ottawa Lynx in addition to about 4 other 11:05 starts.
I believe the 9:30 game is some kind of Breakfast with the Red Wings promotion and the 11's are for school aged kids.
Craig B - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:16 AM EDT (#112386) #
NFH, that's likely unless someone needs to replay a cancelled game before an afternoon start. I think it's the only scheduled game to start before noon, most years these days.

There may be a few suspended games that will restart before noon, but that's not the same thing.

It used to be extremely common to have games start before noon - not anymore!
mistermike - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:17 AM EDT (#112387) #
Mistermike, wasn't yesterday a lefty-righty splits thing with Zaun?

I can't fathom any possible situation where I'd want McDonald hitting with the game on the line. If Johnny Mac were the starting SS and was due up in that situation, I would have pinch hit for him. Zaun and Wells were both on the bench and Zaun had to come into the game regardless.

Still scratching my head!

Named For Hank - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:20 AM EDT (#112389) #
To give a touch of praise to Warren Sawkiw after all the abuse he's had heaped upon him lately, his description of Fenway's level of excitement and the fans you see there (particularly the dog-eaten hat comment) really evoked a strong memory in me of my visit to Fenway last summer.

Good work, Warren. More like that and you'll grow on me.
Andrew K - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:22 AM EDT (#112390) #
Wow, this game is a bit early even for me. (Don't tell anyone, but I skipped out of the lab early, to get home for just after 4pm). Afternoon tea while watching the ballgame -- feels so... indulgent.

I have no hunch about how this series will go. I do think it's important that the Jays keep up the pressure on their main rivals (the Orioles) -- once everything shakes out, I really can't believe that the usual two won't be the top two.
Pistol - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:26 AM EDT (#112392) #
Is there a better twosome hitting back to back than Ramirez and Ortiz?
Named For Hank - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:28 AM EDT (#112393) #
I hear you, Andrew. I'm just finishing my first coffee of the day!

I like it, though.
Grand Funk RR - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:33 AM EDT (#112394) #
I'd better be able to find a bar/restaurant in the Bloor/Yonge area with the game on for an extended lunch break today. Any recommendations?
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:33 AM EDT (#112395) #
Wells looks to have a little more knee bend in his batting stance than normal. Maybe it's a little adjustment, or maybe it's just me. But he gets a little dunk base hit, so perhaps the former.
Named For Hank - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:44 AM EDT (#112397) #
GFR, everything I can think of at Bloor and Yonge is devoid of TVs. There's gotta be something, though.
BrockLanders - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:45 AM EDT (#112398) #
O-Canine did a great job working Schilling there. Hopefully, hes at 40 pitches before the inning ends.
Grand Funk RR - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:45 AM EDT (#112399) #
Great at bat by O-Dog...fought off about a million pitches, then drives it to Trot...let's go Rusty, perfect RBI opportunity.
mistermike - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:46 AM EDT (#112400) #
Is there a better twosome hitting back to back than Ramirez and Ortiz?

Zaun and Hillenbrand?!

Wouldn't mind having Pujols and Rolen either.

Jacko - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:46 AM EDT (#112401) #
Off the top of my head, there's TV's at:

Toby's (east side, just south of Bloor)
Spirits (Church and Hayden)

There's also some sort of british style Pub a little bit east of Yonge and Bloor on the south side.

Named For Hank - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:48 AM EDT (#112402) #
What a great call by Jerry on the dropped foul-tip! I almost had a heart attack.

Jerry Howarth is a gem.
Grand Funk RR - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:49 AM EDT (#112403) #
Schilling's really worried about O-Dog...I don't understand it...2-2 count, 2 out?
Andrew K - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:50 AM EDT (#112404) #
Wow, what fantastic at-bats by Hudson & Adams. I hope they aren't in vain.
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:50 AM EDT (#112405) #
This is about the longest an inning can go without scoring. Great AB's by Hudson and Adams. Schilling already up to 45 pitches through 1 2/3rds. Let's hope Frankie doesn't leave 'em loaded.
Grand Funk RR - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:51 AM EDT (#112406) #
He lost him because he was worried about O-Dog...and here I thought Schilling had some baseball smarts...guess not. Another great AB by Adams...Schilling has to be over 30 pitches already...
Named For Hank - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:51 AM EDT (#112407) #
That last pitch to Adams had me on my feet, and Adams' defeat of Schilling to draw the walk made me involuntarily shout "YES" and pump my first in the air.

What a pair of at-bats from Orlando Hudson and Russ Adams. C'mon Cat!
BrockLanders - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:51 AM EDT (#112408) #
Pesky, pesky jaybirds. Now lets see if they can draw some blood.
Grand Funk RR - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:52 AM EDT (#112409) #
....or 45....
Named For Hank - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:54 AM EDT (#112410) #
My heart is pounding. This is phenomenal.
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:54 AM EDT (#112411) #
Foster sure seems like a hitter's ump. Bush and Schilling have both been squeezed a bit so far.
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:57 AM EDT (#112412) #
The radar gun just clocked the flyover jets by accident. Strangely it was only 56mph, hmmm.

That has got to be the longest inning without a pitching change/at least one run/injury/streaker I've ever seen.
Rob - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:57 AM EDT (#112413) #
This is amazing. Every game should be at 11; the Jays' lineup is way more selective in the morning. So they didn't score. Oh well.

56 pitches for Schilling through two. Wow.
Named For Hank - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:57 AM EDT (#112414) #
The Patriot's Day jets going over added a stunning level of atmosphere to the end of that inning!

Too bad that Cat couldn't get 'em in, but how much longer can Schilling hold up under this kind of onslaught? It's only the second inning and he's thrown well over 50 pitches.
Jordan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:57 AM EDT (#112415) #
56 pitches for Schilling after 2 innings. Chalk that one up as a moral victory, and maybe more.
Sister - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:58 AM EDT (#112416) #
Frankie C goes down swinging after 10 picthes. Schilling has thrown 56 pitches through two innings. Great plate work, despite not scoring.
Andrew K - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:58 AM EDT (#112417) #
One of the most enjoyable no-score innings ever! Oh well. If that happens again, Schilling will be out of the game soon -- I know he's spoken about mental fatigue being more important than number of pitches thrown. He said something to the effect of having to work out of jams, to "reach back", being the thing that he can only do a couple of times each game.
Mark - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:59 AM EDT (#112419) #
I know they didn't score, but that was one of the best half innings I've seen this year. Especially against Curt Schilling.
Pistol - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 11:59 AM EDT (#112420) #
I'm 'watching' the game tracker. It was fun to watch the Hudson, Adams, and Cat ABs.

Schilling's at 57 pitches, so despite no runs it looks like the Jays should get into the pen by the 6th.
Jordan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:01 PM EDT (#112421) #
Welcome to "Pitch Count," a public service from Batter's Box. :-)
mistermike - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:02 PM EDT (#112422) #
FYI for others stuck at work... FAN590 feed is not blacked out.
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:04 PM EDT (#112423) #
That was a fabulous change to strike out Bellhorn. He's looked fairly solid despite the tight zone and good lineup.
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:09 PM EDT (#112424) #
Gosh dang 2-out RBI's. Bush is now over 50 pitches as well and has to face Manny.
Braby21 - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:13 PM EDT (#112425) #
Cat must lead the league in sliding catches, probably b/c most Left fielders would've got to it on the run.
BrockLanders - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:15 PM EDT (#112426) #
Nixon and Damon 1-2 are the bridge to the horsemen of apocalypse. Man that was depressing.
Stellers Jay - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:18 PM EDT (#112427) #
This could get interesting after Hillenbrand gets drilled in the shoulder. Bush should hit somebody back and send a message that they aren't going to roll over.
BrockLanders - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:19 PM EDT (#112428) #
Public Enemy gets drilled by the surgical hurler. hmmmm??
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:21 PM EDT (#112429) #
Wow was that a terrible 0-2 pitch from Schilling. He's darn lucky Wells didn't deposit that over the wall instead of off of it. Good response to batting 5th from Wells.
Stellers Jay - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:22 PM EDT (#112430) #
Vernon responds to the day off yesterday and the drop in the batting order with a big 2-0ut hit here.
Ron - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:26 PM EDT (#112431) #
I'm glad I didn't wake up at 8am today. I went to mlb.com yesterday and the Jays schedule showed that todays game was on RSN Ontario. I thought I would sleep in until 9 and then watch the game. So I turn on the tv and I don't see the game on any of the RSN channels.

If RSN is showing tommorow's game, I wonder why they wouldn't broadcast todays game? It's not like they have better programming in the same time slot.

At least it's nice to see Wells bounce back at the plate so far.
Jordan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:31 PM EDT (#112433) #
A Bush-League performance by the Jays today.....
Chuck - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:31 PM EDT (#112434) #
The game is on the Rogers promotional channels, 1 and 59.
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:32 PM EDT (#112435) #
Obviously disappointing for Bush. He didn't look as bad as the results. He just couldn't finish off the good Red Sox hitters. Too many two strike hits and too many two out hits. I don't think he used his change enough, as he got 2 of his 3 K's with it. The ump didn't help out at all, but I'm not too worried about Bush. A little strange that Arnsberg yanked him instead of Gibbons.
BrockLanders - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:33 PM EDT (#112436) #
The red sox would be wise to to not dig in with League in there and the Hillenbrand plunking fresh in the Jays' memory. This could get interesting.
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:34 PM EDT (#112437) #
Nice one Jordan. Bush is doing his best Jeff Tam impression. But instead of ripping his shirt, he's absolutely shredding his hat over there on the bench.
ScottTS - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:40 PM EDT (#112440) #
Ick. This has gotten ugly. making up 8 runs (so far) against Curt Schilling is probably too much to ask, even for the fighting Jays.
Ron - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:41 PM EDT (#112441) #
The game is on the Rogers promotional channels, 1 and 59. The game is not on any channel for me. At least the game is a blowout. For people that are watching the game, how bad did Shea get smoked by Shill?
mistermike - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:41 PM EDT (#112442) #
If RSN is showing tommorow's game, I wonder why they wouldn't broadcast todays game? It's not like they have better programming in the same time slot.

Because it costs a lot to produce a baseball game and most people are at work and can't watch it. On top of that, it's an 8 am start time on the west coast. Makes perfect sense why they'd take a pass on this one.

Ryan C - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:43 PM EDT (#112443) #
With pulling Bush so early, how much difference will it make that the bullpen went so many innings just yesterday?
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:45 PM EDT (#112444) #
Ron, it didn't seem intentional to me. It was a riding fastball that came up and hit Hilly on the "Hi" part of his jersey on his back/shoulder. Kinda funny though, as his helmet flew off as he spun to avoid the pitch.
BrockLanders - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:45 PM EDT (#112445) #
I personally hope League throws a 4 seamer underneath Big Papi's chin next inning. He tends to hang over the plate abit and retribution must be swift and calculated. LOL
Stellers Jay - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:50 PM EDT (#112446) #
If Bret Boone can win one, maybe Manny can win a gold glove too. He's putting on a pretty impressive display out there in this inning.
Braby21 - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:51 PM EDT (#112447) #
Boston fans are hilarious.
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:51 PM EDT (#112448) #
This is hilarious! Hudson and Frankie hit identical flies to LF and Manny misses them both! He's even got sunglasses on! My new goal short-term goal is to have Schilling not make it through 5. Great sarcastic cheer by the crowd with Manny's catch there.
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:56 PM EDT (#112449) #
Sigh. Leaving the bases loaded is fun. Could have been right back in the game there.
Terran - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 12:59 PM EDT (#112450) #
Toronto has been leaving the bases loaded alot in the last few games...feels like a lot of missed oppertunities...

I think League is going to get sent down within the month. I'm hoping not because I don't think it'll help the team and I think despite his ERA he's done alright...
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:09 PM EDT (#112452) #
Just a sexy hit-and-run. This game's certainly not over!
Craig B - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:10 PM EDT (#112453) #
Beautiful, gutsy 2-strike hit-and-run there.

Getting back into this game looks more *likely* than possible right now.
Thomas - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:13 PM EDT (#112454) #
Even if this is all for naught, a great job of getting through Schilling today. They got his pitch count high really early and he can't have too much longer left.
Craig B - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:14 PM EDT (#112455) #
That strike call to retire Adams was so bad that it fooled the Red Sox radio guys. Schilling's friends in blue strike again...
daryn - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:15 PM EDT (#112456) #
Any have a URL that has realtime "game cast" without having to pay??
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:17 PM EDT (#112457) #
Huge 2-out RBIs for Cat there, picking up Hudson and Adams for not knocking Hinske in. It's definitely a game again. Schilling's thrown a ton of pitches (117 and counting) for only his 2nd stint of the year.
Jordan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:19 PM EDT (#112458) #
117 pitches for Schilling, and he's almost certainly done -- the Sox kept him in for 5 innings so he could collect the win. At this point, though, I won't doubt the Jays' ability to mount a comeback.
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:20 PM EDT (#112459) #
Craig, the called 3rd to Adams wasn't that bad to me. It was very on par with how Foster has called this game so far. He's been giving the low strike, but nothing off the corners, and that pitch was definitely over the plate, and probably snipped the bottom of Adams' knees. Anyone else watching have an opinion? Perhaps the Red Sox announcers aren't paying too much attention to the other balls/strikes due to the score.
King Ryan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:22 PM EDT (#112462) #
Jays are clawing their way back again. Hopefully this time they don't fall a run short.

Figures that I get the day off from work, but I still have to get up at 8AM to watch the Blue Jays...and then to top it off it's not even on TV. If these were the 2004 Jays, I'd go back to bed right now.

As long as Zaun's OBP is .444, I don't have a problem with him in the 2-spot. :)
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:22 PM EDT (#112463) #
daryn, MLB.com's gamecast is pretty solid and is free. CBSSportsline's Livestats isn't too bad either.
Chuck - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:23 PM EDT (#112464) #
Catalanotto's single was on a very poor 0-2 pitch. Remy said it was inside but it was closer to right down the middle.

Presumably that'll be all for Schilling. Just as well. As Craig pointed out, his strike zone has been getting wider.

My theory on the first Ramirez error: as Remy pointed out, on a ball lost in the sun and not even touched with the glove, the scorer usually calls it a hit. Thing is, no one cares about Ramirez's error total. They do care about Schilling's ERA, however. Just another piece of pro-Schilling bias.

kpataky - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:23 PM EDT (#112465) #
With his 2-2 performance today Hillenbrand is up to .407 - one point higher than the last guy to bat .400, Ted Williams.

;-)
Chuck - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:25 PM EDT (#112466) #
Craig, the called 3rd to Adams wasn't that bad to me. It was very on par with how Foster has called this game so far. He's been giving the low strike, but nothing off the corners, and that pitch was definitely over the plate, and probably snipped the bottom of Adams' knees. Anyone else watching have an opinion?

Looks like the same pitch Adams walked on earlier in the game. A gutsy ump would have called it a ball, but justice ain't always blind in rookie-vs.-Schilling matchups.

kpataky - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:27 PM EDT (#112468) #
League up to 47 pitches as he gets a visit on the mound.
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:28 PM EDT (#112469) #
Chuck, didn't Adams walk on a pitch that was inside? I could be wrong though. Either way, I complain about umps a ton and that one didn't get me TOO angry.
kpataky - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:29 PM EDT (#112470) #
League is hitting the showers, but not before he got that last out to match Schilling's ERA of 6.75.
mistermike - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:29 PM EDT (#112471) #
Daryn, I'm listening for free on www.fan590.com
Chuck - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:31 PM EDT (#112472) #
Doc, the ol' memory ain't what is used to be (I don't cook with aluminum, but used to!), but I believe it was a pitch low and away. I was pleasantly surprised to see the ball call. And Adams, perhaps also a little surprised himself, took his time dropping the bat and moving to first.

Of course, someone with TiVo could contradict this entirely!
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:31 PM EDT (#112473) #
Chuck, since you're listening to the Sox broadcast too, isn't Remy hilarious with his "Kenyan" comments regarding the marathon?
daryn - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:32 PM EDT (#112474) #
Daryn, I'm listening for free on www.fan590.com thanks but radio's not an option at work hoping there is still some game tracker applets somewhere. Is anyone an ESPN Insider?
mistermike - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:34 PM EDT (#112476) #
Daryn: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/scoreboard. Click on the "Gamecast" link. It's free.
kpataky - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:36 PM EDT (#112477) #
Ted Hillenbrand singled (3-3 today) to raise his avg to .418.
daryn - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:37 PM EDT (#112478) #
thanks Mistermike, I was getting myself boggled up with the "RealTime" link...

also, the MLB.com Gamecast seems to run pretty smooth...
Andrew K - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:38 PM EDT (#112479) #
What were the terms of the NFH challenge (re Shea) again?
Craig S. - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:40 PM EDT (#112480) #
Anyone else watching the NESN broadcast online? I seem to be having bandwidth issues, and I'm wondering if it's just my connection here at work, or something on the MLB side.
Sherrystar - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:40 PM EDT (#112481) #
What's going on with Koskie!!! He looks lost... again!
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:41 PM EDT (#112482) #
Ugh, DP's. That was classic Vernon when he's going poorly. Takes the fastball on the outside corner and rolls it over as a routine grounder to short. When he's hot he shoots that to RF.
CaramonLS - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:42 PM EDT (#112483) #
Andrew I think it was .350 OBP, by the all star break.

Not 100% sure what else.
VBF - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:42 PM EDT (#112484) #
Shea just keeps going and going. If only we could get him a helmet that fits.
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:43 PM EDT (#112485) #
Craig S, it's still working for me.
mistermike - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:43 PM EDT (#112486) #
Now I'm glad they didn't demote a bullpen pitcher in order to call up another position player! Two straight games with the bullpen going most of the way. I suspect there will be many days like this in 2005 given the young, relatively unproven starting pitchers.
King Ryan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:49 PM EDT (#112488) #
Guys, tell me GameDay is lying to me. It says that Manny Ramirez just hit an Inside the Park Homerun. o_O!!

It's just glitched right?
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:50 PM EDT (#112489) #
I really despise Manny. That'll make it pretty darn tough to come back. I like how Gibbons got all fired up even though he was wrong.
Greg - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:51 PM EDT (#112490) #
I'm on GameDay too
Gibbons tossed?

Did the hand of God come down and swat the ball around the outfield so no one could pick it up?
Andrew K - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:51 PM EDT (#112491) #
I have to say, Tosca was a lot better at ranting at umpires than Gibbons. His face got all screwed up and red, his mouth was going nineteen to the dozen, and lots of angry finger jabs. Gibbons just isn't built for ranting.
#2JBrumfield - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:51 PM EDT (#112492) #
To quote SI's "This Week's Sign The Apocalypse Is Upon Us" - Manny Ramirez - inside the park home run. OUCH! Oh well, the Jays did come back from a 10-0 deficit at Fenway back in '89, so anything's possible in that yard.
kpataky - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:52 PM EDT (#112493) #
I'm guessing the Jays outfielders just sat down and refused to pick up the ball - its the only explanation I can come up with for a Manny Ramirez inside the park homer.
VBF - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:52 PM EDT (#112494) #
Yes it is lying to you. His alleged home run ball barely made it over the line in front of the monster seats. The immediate call was not a home run but they reversed it. That is one thing that bugs me about sports. A call should stand as it was originally called.

Now Gibby just got tossed.

Andrew K - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:53 PM EDT (#112495) #
No, it was a straight home run, but initially it was called as a double or something off the wall. But the umps conferred and called it a HR -- which the replay clearly showed it was. Gibbons came out and got tossed out pretty sharpish -- he must have used a bad word.
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:54 PM EDT (#112496) #
Gents, it wasn't an inside-the-parker. It just cleared the weird ledge on top of the monster over the line, and the umps got together to overrule the original 2B ruling.
King Ryan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:54 PM EDT (#112497) #
I disagree. The original call shouldn't stand if it's wrong. Getting the right call is all that's important, the umpire's ego is a non-factor.

If it was indeed a homerun, then good on the umps to fix their mistake.
groove - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:54 PM EDT (#112498) #
My apartment building overrides channel 59 with a looping black and white view of the various entrances. This almost approaches the excitement level of a DevilRays vs Royals game.
VBF - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:55 PM EDT (#112499) #
Yea, the replay showed it a home run. The orginal call was that the ball was in play. There's a funny ledge in front of the seats, and the home run line lies just before it, off the facing of the wall.
Chuck - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:55 PM EDT (#112500) #
Guys, tell me GameDay is lying to me. It says that Manny Ramirez just hit an Inside the Park Homerun.

It wasn't an inside the park homerun. It was a homerun that cleared the homerun line near the top of the wall but did not clear the wall. It was first ruled a double and, after an umprire conference, changed to a homerun.

Spartan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:56 PM EDT (#112501) #
I say Frasor should get sent down before League. They should bring up a lefty in place of Frasor.
mistermike - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:56 PM EDT (#112502) #
That is one thing that bugs me about sports. A call should stand as it was originally called.

Gotta disagree. I'd rather see the officials get it right.

Just ask any Buffalo Sabres fan. A bad call probably cost their team the Stanley Cup.

Chuck - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:57 PM EDT (#112503) #
My apartment building overrides channel 59 with a looping black and white view of the various entrances. This almost approaches the excitement level of a DevilRays vs Royals game.

Try channel 1.

BrockLanders - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 01:58 PM EDT (#112505) #
I wonder how long before some team takes a chance on the newly rehabilitated John Rocker. Hes playing with the Long Island Ducks now and should get a look by some team. Lefties who touch 94 mph don't grow on trees no matter how psychotic they may be.
kpataky - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:00 PM EDT (#112506) #
Varitek whiffs and becomes the 20th strikeout in the games - and we are only through 6 innings! Must be tough to be a big athlete man and have to get up to play an 11 am game like this.
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:05 PM EDT (#112507) #
Rios! So close. His potential 2nd career HR and Nixon robbed it! It's been 255 AB's since his last HR. That's quite a few.
King Ryan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:06 PM EDT (#112508) #
How close was Rios to hitting that one out?
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:07 PM EDT (#112509) #
Francona, you gotta be kidding. Let a Major League pitcher finish an inning when up 6 runs. Come on! This game's already gonna be a 4 hour game.
King Ryan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#112510) #
Ah, Zarco already answered that.

Why are the Sox micromanaging with a 6 run lead? I hope Myers implodes and give up three grand slams or something. Teach them for slowing down this already slow game!
VBF - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#112511) #
Gotta disagree. I'd rather see the officials get it right.

I believe that reversing a call will only add more controversy to the game even though it may be the right call. Regardless of ego, a call is a call. Human error is part of the game. Unfortunately, technology is able to point out just about all human errors. But the argument is opinion based, I don't want to open a can of worms.

In the case of the home run, and the Buffalo game, it was the original rules which caused the argument. If players could score a goal in the crease, there would be no argument. If Fenway didn't have a stupid ledge, the home run wouldn't be in question. I'm not saying go out and make every thing about sports foolproof, but controversy can be cut down significantly.

Jordan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:09 PM EDT (#112512) #
"Offensive Substitution: Pinch hitter John McDonald replaces Russ Adams."

There's that phrase again....
Dr. Zarco - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:12 PM EDT (#112513) #
Oh my God. I used to somewhat like Francona. Not after this stunt. Too bad Johnny Mac couldn't do that one yesterday.
VBF - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:12 PM EDT (#112514) #
Why are the Sox micromanaging with a 6 run lead? I hope Myers implodes and give up three grand slams or something. Teach them for slowing down this already slow game!

Not to fear! Francona won't let something like that happen!

King Ryan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:12 PM EDT (#112515) #
Adams will never get better against LHP if you keep pinch hitting for him...
Jordan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:14 PM EDT (#112516) #
See, not only do I disagree with this move on principle, it's also not good strategy. If the Jays ever do mount a comeback and the game is on the line, Mike Myers won't be pitching: Keith Foulke will, and you don't want McDonald batting against Foulke under any circumstances. Give Adams an opportunity to hit against a lefty -- 6 runs down, it hardly matters if he makes an out.

It's a very small thing in the context of this game, but it represents a much larger concern if Gibbons (who is most certainly managing from the runway) is going to automatically pinch-hit McDonald (who is an historically poor hitter) for Adams. This has to be nipped in the bud early.
groove - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:15 PM EDT (#112517) #
In brighter news, J.Mac is hitting .600 against LHP this season.

P.S. i'm watching the game on www.sportsline.com. Not a bad little set up they have there for free play-by-play watching.

Rich - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#112518) #
Nice to see that this team never quits.

As for the Yanks paying for their own park, BP wrote a story about this a few months ago explaining something to the effect that the other 29 clubs will in effect be subisizing this through the CBA's rules on club debt and revenue sharing, not that I remember the details.
Jordan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:24 PM EDT (#112519) #
McDonald's single is nice, but it doesn't change the larger point: he and Adams should not be platooning, and he certainly shouldn't be pinch-hitting. Unfortunately, this RBI single just makes it that much likelier we'll see this happen again down the road.
Four Seamer - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:25 PM EDT (#112520) #
I emphatically agree with Jordan. Bringing in McDonald for Adams is classic short-term thinking, without there being any real chance of a payoff. I wouldn't favour it in a one-run ballgame, and I don't favour it in a six-run game.

I like that JP brings in a security blanket for his young shortstops; I just hope they don't use Johnny Mac to suffocate Adams like they smothered Woodward with Gomez and Bordick at the first sign of trouble.
Ron - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:28 PM EDT (#112521) #
"Offensive Substitution: Pinch hitter John McDonald replaces Russ Adams."There's that phrase again.... That phrase hasn't happened that often this season. Adams has only been pulled 3 times this season for J-Mac in a pinch hitting situation: April 6th, April 17th, and todays game. I certainly don't hope it's a season long trend but with J-Mac swinging the hot bat right now I can understand Gibby's decision to do it.
King Ryan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:30 PM EDT (#112522) #
"Only," Ron? I didn't think McDonald would pinch-hit three times all season. It's not what he's here for.
uglyone - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:30 PM EDT (#112523) #
why would Gibbons stop pinchhitting McDonald for Adams against lefty specialists when he keeps coming through?
kpataky - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:34 PM EDT (#112524) #
Ted (Shea) Hillenbrand singles to go 4-4 today and raise his avg to .429!
Ron - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:35 PM EDT (#112526) #
3 times doesn't seem like a lot.

Adams still has double the AB's that J-Mac has.

I didn't like the idea of pulling Adams yesterday with the bases loaded though.

I see nothing wrong with Gibby going with the hot bat right now. I don't think Adams is in danger of losing his starting gig or his fair share of AB's anytime soon.

Jordan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:42 PM EDT (#112527) #
I can think of three excellent reasons why McDonald should not be used in pinch-hitting situations:
2002: .250/.288/.326, 264 AB
2003: .215/.258/.280, 214 AB
2004: .204/.237/.344, 93 AB
McDonald is a poor hitter, and if you keep using his bat, he'll create a lot of outs. If you keep using his bat in critical situations, he'll create a lot of critical outs. Adams, like all young lefty hitters, will struggle against lefties early in his career. But is he going to struggle so badly that John McDonald is a better option? Keep in mind that McDonald's career numbers against LHs are .235/.279/.321. And as pointed out above: if Adams is going to be the everyday shortstop, shouldn't you maximize his exposure to lefty pitchers so he can improve? And if you can't do it in April down 6 runs, when can you do it?

Again, I don't want to make too much of this, and I think Gibbons is a fine field general in other respects. But I really don't like seeing this happen two consecutive days, because it suggests a bad underlying philosophy regarding offensive substitutions. And if Adams is going to be regularly pinch-hit for against lefties, then it certainly points out the need for another bat on the bench.

uglyone - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:44 PM EDT (#112528) #
except that he hasn't been making critical outs - he's been making critical hits.
Andrew K - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:46 PM EDT (#112529) #
except that he hasn't been making critical outs - he's been making critical hits

I say, quit when you're ahead.

Grand Funk RR - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:53 PM EDT (#112530) #
I say ride the hot hand.
NYJaysFan36 - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 02:54 PM EDT (#112531) #
Amazingly, the Jays outhit the Red Sox 17-15. I wonder when the last time a team that lost by 5 or more runs outhit the opposition...
VBF - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#112532) #
I say ride the hot hand.

This would apply to a team in the heat of a pennant race. The Jays aren't making the playoffs this year. Playing J.M. might be a good short term decision, but in the long term, the future is getting the short end of the stick.

Jordan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#112533) #
Regarding today's game ... certainly, the Jays squandered a few scoring opportunities, and you just can't do that in Fenway. But otherwise, all you can do is tip your cap to the opposition. When you face Curt Schilling and the World Series champions at home, the odds are already stacked against you; when you send out a young pitcher who faced this team just last week, the odds lengthen considerably.

Still, there are good signs to be taken from today's game -- Vernon's two hits might presage an end to his slump. The Jays did score 5 runs off Schilling in 5 innings, and that ain't hopscotch. And oddly enough, the inability of the starters to get anywhere the last two games has been beneficial, because the club has had a chance to see the bloated bullpen in action and can start to make decisions about who can help them most right now.

And best of all, Doc goes tomorrow. A 9-6 start to the season is quite possible, and that would be a huge improvement over anything we might have expected two weeks ago.
GreenMonster - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#112534) #

NYJaysFan36 wrote:

Amazingly, the Jays outhit the Red Sox 17-15. I wonder when the last time a team that lost by 5 or more runs outhit the opposition...

This phenomenon, while not exactly common, is hardly rare. The last time it happened was all the way back to last Friday, when Philadephia lost to Atlanta, 11-4, but the Phillies outhit the Braves 10-9.

Mike Green - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 03:04 PM EDT (#112535) #

It's funny how "ride the hot hand" works. Adams has had 67 plate appearances against right-handed pitchers since he came up in September. In these PAs, his OBP is almost .390, and his slugging percentage is almost .600. I don't see anyone suggesting that he should be batting cleanup against righties. We all have the good sense to recognize that it is a small sample size, and that Adams is not likely to keep this up. Why is the logic any different when it comes to McDonald?

Mike D - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 03:05 PM EDT (#112536) #
I wonder how long before some team takes a chance on the newly rehabilitated John Rocker. Hes playing with the Long Island Ducks now and should get a look by some team. Lefties who touch 94 mph don't grow on trees no matter how psychotic they may be.

Lefties who are so psychotic as to virtually guarantee clubhouse problems and negative publicity don't grow on trees, no matter how fast they may be.

uglyone - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 03:11 PM EDT (#112537) #
Suggesting that using the "hot hand" as a pinch hitter is absolutely different than suggesting that a "hot hand" should bat cleanup full time.
R Billie - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#112538) #
The difference between Boston hits and Toronto's hits are obviously that Boston's hits go a lot further. And they drew four walks, all of them critical and early in the game while the Jays were given just two walks.

Schilling versus the Jays' modest hitting lineup matched against David Bush facing Boston's power laden lineup without command of his curve = predictable loss. Bush didn't have much going today and I don't know if it was because of overthrowing (it sounded like it might have been) or because his arm isn't 100% after his first April to October season in 2004.

By all rights Bush should have been out of the game after the 1st or 2nd inning the way he was throwing but the Jays just used up 7 innings of bullpen yesterday so they didn't have much choice but to try to squeeze an extra few innings out of an ineffective starter.
NYJaysFan36 - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 03:15 PM EDT (#112539) #
GreenMonster,

So much for that idea...hehehe

Jordan,

Yes. We defintely need Roy to be the "stopper" as it were. That guy who who can flat out break a losing streak. Bronson Arroyo has not looked good so far this year. He is walking a lot of guys and getting himself into tight spots.
Terran - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#112543) #
Though I was hopeful when the season began, it looks like the Jays probably need pitching help after all.

I wonder what trades could be made though. We can spare an outfielder if that's what it takes (so long as it's not Wells or Rios). I wonder if Gabe Gross might have more trade value to some teams then Catalonatto? Obviously this trade will not happen but it'd be kind of nice (and some will probably disagree) if we did another trade with Oakland, this time for Zito, maybe giving them Gross and a mid-tier pitching prospect in return. Zito's has been a shadow of but he's still in his mid-20s, a capable pitcher and despite his 2004 preformance and first three starts this year would likely make a very strong #3 behind Halladay and Lilly. Plus we can afford to sign him for the long run while Oakland probably can't or won't.
BCMike - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 04:00 PM EDT (#112547) #
I don't know, Oakland doesn't seem to be in a position to give up any starting pitching. Maybe if they are out of it in July but not any time soon.
jayfanbrooklyn - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 04:00 PM EDT (#112548) #
I dont think we should attack the starting pitching to bad in this instance. It was the jay's number five starter vs boston's number 1. As far as upgrading the bullpen, they should wait and see if they actually have a shot at the playoffs before trading away assests
Terran - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 04:08 PM EDT (#112549) #
Well when trading away Zito for Gross your actually only gaining one year.

I think the Jays may have youth to spare too. It's not that we should trade away a decent prospect for a trade that will benifit us only for this year though but if we can get a capable SP in their 20s somehow I think it might be worth dipping into the farm for...
Andrew K - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 05:40 PM EDT (#112557) #
No roundup thread? There's an interesting story on ESPN with a huge pic of Chacin on the front page, at the moment:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=schwarz_alan&id=2034567
Dave Till - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 06:01 PM EDT (#112558) #
I think that the schedule maker gets partial credit for this Red Sox win. The Jays played yesterday afternoon in Texas, then had to fly to Boston and get up early this morning; all this at the end of a long road trip, too. Meanwhile, the Sox played yesterday in Fenway, so they didn't have to go anywhere.

This isn't as bad as arriving at a hotel room at 4 in the morning on the day of a game, but it's got to be a bit of a disadvantage.

Manny Ramirez is some kind of hitter.
timpinder - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 06:03 PM EDT (#112559) #
I wouldn't worry about Bush, he's a solid #3 big league starter. His ERA was 3.69 last year and 3.79 going into today's game. By mid-season his ERA should be below 4.00 again. He has good command with his fastball and has a solid changeup and a decent curve. I don't like to panic based on one day's performance. The question is Towers and how soon he'll start to really bomb.

As for a trade for Zito, I would not be at all surprised to see Zito, Vazquez, or another top pitcher from a team out of contention playing for Toronto by the trade deadline. Zito and Vazquez will likely be available if the A's and D-Backs are out of contention and both are comming off bad years so they'll probably be under-valued. The Jays have money to spare and more prospects available to trade than the Sox and Yanks. Then there's top prospects Rosario and McGowan. Even if the Jays do make a trade for a front end starter, I expect to see Rosario throwing smoke in Toronto by the fall, and depending on how fast he recovers from Tommy-John, maybe even McGowan. I think the rotation is in pretty good shape.
King Ryan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 06:50 PM EDT (#112562) #
The Jays will be out of contention far before the A's will be.
TorontoDan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 07:10 PM EDT (#112563) #
Hey now! That's no way to think this early in the season. Think positive thoughts Ryan.
timpinder - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 09:17 PM EDT (#112578) #
King Ryan,
I wasn't saying that the Jays were going to be in contention so they'd trade for an ace. But they want a front end starter and they have the money, that's clear. Ricciari's smart and knows it would be easier to get an ace via trade than trying to outbid the Yanks, Sox and Orioles for A.J. Burnett in the offseason.
JayWay - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#112579) #
Off-topic rant: What is with the Jays' merchanidse line? I'm on the Jays' online store looking at their selection caps, and what do I see? Black hats, white hats, pink hats, grey hats, camoflauge hats (???), charcoil hats, black and white striped hats... Oddly missing from this equation is the inclusion of anything blue. You know, as in the Blue Jays. According to the selection, Godfrey and the marketing team believe that only women and small children care to wear blue. Males on the other hand are way too "hip" (Godfrey's own term) and prefer the more fashionable shades of black and grey.
TorontoDan - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 10:09 PM EDT (#112580) #
I think I've seen some retro hats (that are blue) at the Bullpen store, and http://shop.mlb.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=1307652&cp=1452370.1452930

The MLB store has plenty of them.
JayWay - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 10:23 PM EDT (#112581) #
Ya, but it's kinda sad that I'd have to buy a retro cap in order to find anything in blue.

Craig B - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 10:38 PM EDT (#112582) #
Gibbons came out and got tossed out pretty sharpish -- he must have used a bad word

Andrew, believe it or not, there is only one "bad word" that major league umpires will toss a manager for.

That word is "you".

A manager can use as much below-decks language as he wants, and scream it as loud as he likes, but until he says "you" to the umpire, he's fine. Fay Vincent (via Bruce Froemming) explained it in his book The Last Commissioner:

We've all seen it... [f]or a while the umpire takes it... but at some point he reaches a breaking point and tosses the guy... Every umpire I've asked, I get the same answer.

"Guy says the magic words..." Bruce Froemming once told me, "...anything with a "you" before it... 'you blind fuck', 'you're full of shit'. If a player says 'That was a horseshit call,' he's fine. If a guy says 'you're a horseshit ump,' you ring him up. He's gone."

Later in the book, Vincent has a great story about Roger Clemens and ump Terry Cooney in the 1990 ALCS, where Roger was thrown out because Cooney said Roger said "you mother****er" to him. Magic words, right? It turned out, when they had the hearing, that Roger said a bunch of other things, but not the magic words.

The book is really good, by the way. Recommended.

westcoast dude - Monday, April 18 2005 @ 10:46 PM EDT (#112583) #
I admire Josh's attitude but Rosario, like Chacin, is ready now. Bush will round out nicely as #5.
Terran - Tuesday, April 19 2005 @ 12:55 AM EDT (#112587) #
Even if the Jays are out of contention I'd still welcome a trade for Zito or Vazquez.

Another possibility comes to mind. Given that Ted Lilly's older and if we are indeed out of contention, the Yankees might be willing to trade us Pavano or Wright (whichever one falters. Keep in mind that they didn't give Weaver or Vazquez much of a chance either) for Lilly. Lilly's contract is running up anyways and both Pavano and Wright are younger guys.
King Ryan - Tuesday, April 19 2005 @ 01:07 AM EDT (#112589) #
Well, considering Wright is terrible, and Lilly isn't, I would have to say "no thank you" to that deal.
Andrew K - Tuesday, April 19 2005 @ 04:04 AM EDT (#112591) #
That word is "you".

Fascinating. Thanks, Craig. Perhaps I'll get that book.

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