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What's going on at the winter meetings?

Do they know it's officially not winter for another 40+ days?

Some Blue Jay talk:

* Reports in both Texas and Toronto have the Jays targeting Kevin Mench of the Rangers. The reported offer is Miguel Batista and either Brandon League or Alex Rios.

* The Jays gave permission to the Red Sox to interview Tony LaCava for the Boston GM position.

* As always, go and vote for Tom Cheek, for the rest of the month for the Frick Award.

Winter Meetings - Nov 9 | 104 comments | Create New Account
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rpriske - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 08:42 AM EST (#131555) #
Am I off base or would that be waaaaay overpaying for Mench?

I would think Batista and a much lower level prospect should be enough.

Or is this a salary issue as Batista is overpaid?
Maldoff - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 08:55 AM EST (#131556) #
I completely agree. Mench is not that great of a playar. He would be a modest upgrade over Rios. To give up your closer (although Griffin mentioned this morning the thought of McGowan becoming the next Jays closer) and your previos #1 prospects is a lot for a guy who hits .270 with 25-30 homers.
Pistol - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 08:58 AM EST (#131557) #
One thing to consider about Mench is that he's entering his first year of arbitration and won't make much money next year which makes his value greater.

If there's a League or Rios option from the Jays perspective I'd much rather have League.
Mike Green - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 09:11 AM EST (#131559) #
I would have little interest in Mench. He's an average defender at best, and probably better suited to left field. Once you factor out the park, his offence is only a little above average. I am confident that Gross/Rios would do better.
SK in NJ - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 09:31 AM EST (#131560) #
From 2002-2004, Mench's away line in 538 at bats was .262/.315/.476 (.791 OPS). In 2005, it was .254/.317/.452 (.769 OPS) in 279 at bats. He also has a pretty significant RH/LH split.

For Batista and a lesser prospect (Banks, Marcum), I'd do it. For Batista and one of Rios or League? That's a little rich. Not because Rios/League are stars, but because we could probably use them in packages for better players. Mench is decent, but not anything special. Maybe an .800 OPS with 25 HR's. One thing going for him is price tag, and the difference between Mench's projected salary and Batista's could mean adding a million (or two) for another player (Burnett, Giles, Ryan, etc).
Ken MacDonald - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 09:31 AM EST (#131561) #
Keep League,Rios and Batista.Forget Mench unless he comes very cheap.I'd like to see John Ford Griffen get a long look in March before any drastic moves are made towards getting another outfielder unless you can pick up a 30-30 guy and Mench is not that guy!
PeterG - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 09:44 AM EST (#131563) #
Mench is a huge power upgrade over Rios and isn't that what Jays are seeking.I think there is frustration with Leagues's ability to learn secondary pitches.
Batista they just want to dump.

I would make this deal without hesitation and I believe it gets done.
Skills - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 09:54 AM EST (#131565) #
Those home/away splits creep me out a bit. Batista and league/rios for a sub .800 slugging is not worth it.
OntarioMediator - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 09:59 AM EST (#131567) #
If the Jays are looking at acquiring Mench, why not make an inquiry about Adrian Gonzalez as well? I'd do Bautista, League and Rios for Mench and Gonzalez. Key thing is whether or not the Rangers would bite.
CaramonLS - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 10:02 AM EST (#131569) #
Stay away from Texas hitters.

If he could put up near the same numbers with the Jays than he did with the Rangers, than yeah it would be a good deal for a power OF, but I doubt that is going to happen.

After all he would be coming from AL Colorado.

Pistol - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 10:03 AM EST (#131570) #
I would have little interest in Mench.....I am confident that Gross/Rios would do better.

I agree with half of that. I'm not all that interested in Mench, but I'm not nearly as confident that Gross or Rios would be better.

I think a Mench for Batista/Rios trade would be an upgrade for the Jays. However, it would be just a slight upgrade and I think the Jays would be better off pursuing other options first.

And for all we know this could just be exploratory talk that isn't going very far and is just a Plan B or C for the Jays if other things fall through.

What I hadn't given much thought to prior to this rumor was that Batista might have good trade value as a starter which is apparently what the Rangers would use Batista for. Batista could easily be an average starter with a one year, $4.75 million contract when similar pitchers will be getting 3 years and at least that much per year.

Mike Green - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 10:06 AM EST (#131571) #
Did you know that Texas had a lower FIP than Toronto last year? The team defence was bad, and the park worked against them, so the pitching looked a lot worse than it was. Conversely, the position players put up gaudy numbers with some aid from the park but hurt the club in the field. Put Chris Young on Chicago, Cleveland, Oakland or Toronto and he'd probably be a Cy Young candidate.

Texas does need a centerfielder who can play D and Alex Rios would be a candidate. Mench is not enough in return.
Jim - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 10:06 AM EST (#131572) #
I'd say trading Batista's salary is a huge consideration in the deal. That money can go towards BJ Ryan.
Jim - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 10:07 AM EST (#131573) #
Joe - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 10:15 AM EST (#131574) #
To be a little bit more detailed: Delgado is unhappy with the Marlins saying they want to trade him, because he's happy in Florida and wants to stay there.
greenfrog - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 10:15 AM EST (#131575) #
Another thing in Mench's favour is a positive trend in his BB:K ratio (50:68 last season; the strikeouts are low for a power hitter). But his OBP is also nothing to write home about (career .334).

Compare those numbers to Giles's (119:64 BB:K and career .413 OBP). Giles's career OPS (.955) is almost 140 points higher than Mench's (.818).

Mench is basically an average (or very slightly above-average) LF, albeit a cheap and relatively young one. Giles is an excellent RF who may or may not have several good seasons left in him.
Rob - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 10:30 AM EST (#131576) #
Jeff Blair really has no love lost for the Los Angeles Dodgers -- specifically, Tommy Lasorda. He posted this yesterday afternoon:

The Dodgers also interviewed Kim Ng, an assistant G.M. for the past four years who would become the first woman to be G.M. of a major league team. But that won't likely happen as long as Tommy Lasorda has the ear of ownership.

And he had this back when they fired DePodesta:

Don't know what your kids wore as costumes for Halloween, but reports from southern California indicate the Los Angeles Dodgers went door to door disguised as a Major League franchise.

There's no mystery why this once-proud franchise is such a mess. It's Tommy Lasorda...a blowhard whose cuddly image belies a conniving nature

I think it was NFH who said it: Blair's a lot of fun to read when he gets grumpy. I don't know where this blog-like column of his came from, but I like it.

Pistol - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 11:05 AM EST (#131577) #
I think the Jays would be better off pursuing other options first.

Such as Jonny Gomes. The Devil Rays just signed Baldelli to a long term deal and also have Crawford, Gathright, Huff, with Delmon Young coming quick in the OF. That's 6 players for 3 OF spots. Even if Huff is traded as expected there's still an extra OF on that team.

Spookie Wookie - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 11:07 AM EST (#131578) #
If I'm JP I pull the trigger on this one in a heartbeat. Batista is a closer with a 4.10 ERA and 54k in 74 innings. As a starter he is a middle or bottom of the rotation guy, which the Jays already have plenty of. Rios is a good defensive outfield with OPS+ of 83 and 84 in his two seasons in the majors. He is young but has shown no indication that he is likely to improve. With Mench you get an above-average major league hitter. This is a no-brainer in my eyes: two players with very little value for the Jays for one with some value, and they save some money while they're at it.

As for whether these guys should be worth more to another team: well, if there's a better deal on the table, you can be sure JP will take it.
Mick Doherty - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 11:19 AM EST (#131579) #
I can't imagine Texas making this deal, even if BOTH Rios and League were included.

There's plenty of good young starting pitching that's cheaper AND better than Batista, while if Mench leaves, the starting OF is Dellucci, Nix and Matthews with Big Dick Hidalgo looking on and counting his cash.

Sure, sure, that might mean Rios could see a lot of playing time. But after 2005, Jays watchers, how much of an all-around plus to the deal does THAT turn out to be?
Jordan - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 11:30 AM EST (#131580) #
Kevin Mench's Most Similar Batter through age 27 is Marty Cordova. Lifetime OPS+ is 106. Nothing in his major- or minor-league record indicates he'll ever be more than what he is now. No thanks.
Ducey - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 11:47 AM EST (#131582) #
The only way that Mench is of any use is if he is platooned (maybe with Hinske at DH). He hit a uninspiring .255/.313/.431 vs RH last year (Hinske hit .283/.358/.452 vs RH) and that was with about half of Mench's at bats at home (so expect those #'s to drop). On the other hand he hit .296/.380/.600 vs lefties.

I wouldn't give up more than Batista for Mench.
Maldoff - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 11:56 AM EST (#131583) #
Just a quick note....

Over on, Steve Phillips (former GM of the Mets) has listed the Top 50 Free Agents, along with their likely landing spots. AJ Burnett is listed 7th, behind the usual cast of characters (although Furcal is 4th, which I found to be a little high). Burnett's likely landing spot is Toronto.

Brian Giles is listed a little lower down (at #9), and Phillips predicts he'll end up as a Cub. Take these predictions with a grain of salt.
Rich - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 12:18 PM EST (#131585) #
Ducey makes a good point about Mench. Mind you, a platoon of Gross and Mench would probably be a significant upgrade over Rios. I would only acquire Mench after exhausting all other options for a slugging corner outfielder. Mench is much like what they Jays already have - another average hitter. I'd take him over Rios, but not before seeing if I could do better first.
CSHunt68 - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 12:20 PM EST (#131586) #
Mench has been an _above average_ offensive player to this point in his career. Rios has been a _well below average_ offensive player to this point in his career.
Is the upgrade worth the two guys mentioned? I'm not sure.
But, Mench would be a HELL of an upgrade over Lexi, at the plate.
Pepper Moffatt - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 12:25 PM EST (#131587) #
That trade makes absolutely no sense. The Jays have a ton of money, nobody to spend it on, and a mediocre offence. So they're going to dump salary so they can have even more money and acquire a mediocre bat like Kevin Mench?

I can't see this one happening.
AWeb - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 12:26 PM EST (#131588) #
A platoon of Gross and Rios would also be a significant upgrade over Rios. If an average outfielder, with the approximate upside of Hillenbrand, is all you can get for Batista, then keep him. He's a useful role pitcher. Starts, closes, long relief. He might not do any especially well, but he can do all reasonably well. Maybe the rumor stared when someone looked at Mench's dome numbers: .326/.383/.589.
That's certainly the type of hitter the Jays need (or anyone else for that matter), but I don't think Mench is it (129 ABs in the line above).
Rich - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 12:29 PM EST (#131589) #
Let's be fair about Mench's ability to hit away from Arlington. 3 year splits in more detail:

Home: .289 / .356 / .514 (39 2B, 28 HR in 582 AB)
Away: .262 / .315 / .476 (36 2B, 25 HR in 538 AB)

His power numbers are fairly similar on the road; he's just hit fewer singles and walked less.
Rob - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 12:32 PM EST (#131590) #
The Jays have a ton of money, nobody to spend it on, and a mediocre offence. So they're going to dump salary so they can have even more money and acquire a mediocre bat like Kevin Mench?

Couldn't have said it better myself, Pepper.

And I want nothing to do with the next Marty Cordova; the first one was bad enough...

kinguy - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 12:38 PM EST (#131591) #
Changing focus to the minor leagues, the Jays announced that Doug Davis will be the new manager of the NH Fisher Cats.
Thomas - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 12:54 PM EST (#131592) #
I'll support this trade only on the condition Kevin Mench promises to fall asleep in a tanning machine.
Lucas - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 12:58 PM EST (#131594) #

Stay away from Texas hitters... After all he would be coming from AL Colorado.

If Texas is the AL's Colorado, Toronto is at least the AL's Arizona:

2005 Park Factor (Runs):
1. Texas (1.035)
2. Oakland (1.028)
3. Chicago (1.023)
4. New York (1.023)
5. Toronto (1.018)

2005 Park Factor (Slugging %):
1. Texas (1.044)
2. Chicago (1.037)
3. Toronto (1.035)

CSHunt68 - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 01:23 PM EST (#131595) #
Rios' totals:
2005: .262/.306/.397
2004: .286/.338/.383

IMHO, any trade that moves Rios' _useless_ bat out of the order is a good one. Even using Mench's away numbers, it's a big upgrade. Especially considering we'd be adding ten to fifteen dingers - something the Jays SORELY need.
I can also do without seeing Batista get the closing job for another year.
Batista for Mench? Done. If we have to add anyone? Meh.
Jobu - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 01:26 PM EST (#131596) #
I'll support this trade only on the condition Kevin Mench promises to fall asleep in a tanning machine.

I still wouldn't support this trade, even if he promised to stay away from Doc's legs.

Technically Batista and League and/or Rios for Mench might be a slight improvement in a strictly baseball sense, but in the overall picture it seems a terrible baseball move. League and Rios (and maybe even Batista) have a lot more value in what they represent, which are tantalizing parts to a deal that could bring a much better player to the Jays than the Mediocre Leg Breaker. I think it would be a waste of resources (and what is a Major League GM other than a resource manager) to move these neccessary parts for "The Trade" for the 125th vorpiest postion player in 2005 behind Craig "I'm a weirdo" Counsell with an empty (and low) BA and terrible splits (and "terrible splints"†). As Moffatt put, I just don't see the point in this trade: shipping all your trade bait for an average (at best) corner OF whose only real highlight is an OK number of shiny homeruns in a hitters park. Not that it's that easy, but if I were JP I'd use all the trade bait I had to try and get Dunn and do whatever it took to get Giles here.

†© Pettapiece, Rob. 2005.

rtcaino - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 01:26 PM EST (#131597) #
I'd be much more happy with sending Rios away than dealing League. I still haven't given up on League. Also, I imagine League has more value in a trade. But AS has been mentioned, Texas is a bit thin in the outfeild.
Named For Hank - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 01:39 PM EST (#131598) #
Just out of curiosity, is this negative feeling towards Rios based on his minor league career? Or just the fact that he had an okay rookie season followed up by a disappointing second year?

If it's merely a reaction to his time with the big club, isn't that a hasty over-reaction? Young players sometimes are great from the get-go, but aren't they the exception rather than the rule?

I'm not suggesting that it would be a bad idea to trade Rios' potential for some help right away, but I think it would be a bad idea to trade him for just a minor upgrade or nothing at all, just to move his "useless bat out of the order".

But if the Jays trade for Mench I hope they send Roy Halladay to the airport to pick him up. Then maybe they'll get "lost" for a few hours on the way back while Roy exacts his revenge.
Pistol - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 01:58 PM EST (#131600) #
In 2003 Rios was the MVP of the Eastern League (AA). At that time you would have thought he would build on that. However, since then his numbers look identical to his numbers prior to 2003.
Level Games   OBP  SLG  Ave
  AL   257   .321 .390 .273
 AAA    46   .292 .373 .259
  AA   127   .402 .521 .352 
   A   313   .315 .369 .277 
   R    67   .321 .325 .269 
Now take away his 2003 season:
Level Games   OBP  SLG  Ave
  AL   257   .321 .390 .273
 AAA    46   .292 .373 .259
   A   313   .315 .369 .277 
   R    67   .321 .325 .269
It looks to me like 2003 is either a fluke and/or his career year. I wouldn't expect Rios to be more than the .270/.320/.380 player that he's shown to be, and the Jays need to get more production out of RF than that. So if Rios can get something good in a trade I don't have any problems with it.
Jim - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 01:59 PM EST (#131601) #
I'd much rather keep Rios then League. Less then 7k/9 in his minor league career... with his velocity scares me that he won't even be a dominant reliever.
rtcaino - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 02:04 PM EST (#131602) #
I've never been very happy with Rios. His rookie year wasn't that great. I mean he hit for good average, but what good is that if you’re not getting on base, and hitting extra base hits? His minor league numbers were not great, apart from his MVP season.

A lot of people look at his build and his talent and say he may put it together. While others look at his numbers and say maybe his MVP season was a fluke, and that the guy simply won't put it together.

I'm not sure where exactly I stand on it. But if I had to say one way or the other I'd say most likely not.

That said, most of the same can be said about League. In terms of having tools and potential, but not having great numbers. I'd still rather keep League than Rios.
Ryan Day - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 02:19 PM EST (#131603) #
Pistol, have you merged all of Rios' A-ball stats? Because Rios went from:
230/250/297 (which is bad) at Hagerstownin 2000, to
262/304/354 (which is better, but not good) at Charleston in 2001, to
305/344/408 in 2002 at Dunedin, which is pretty decent.

And then he followed that with his MVP season at AA. That looks like player who was learning and improving as he went along.

This season, he was all over the place. He had an excellent April (321/344/452), poor May (264/306/407), decent June (272/322/457), good July (267/349/347), and then fell off the face of the earth in August and September. He has, at various points, shown the ability to hit for a good average, decent power, and draw an acceptable number of walks, along with the usual good speed and defence.

So the question is "Will he do it all at once, and for an entire season?" Well, I don't know. But I think he could, and that alone makes him worth more than Kevin Mench.

Mike Forbes - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 02:21 PM EST (#131604) #
A fair comparison for Alex Rios at this age would be Jose Guillen. Rios like Guillen is very toolsy but very inconsistant... Then one year Guillen just put it all together in his late 20's and has become a good middle of the order bat... This could very well be Rio's future career path... But will he be a Jay if/when this happens?
Pistol - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 02:25 PM EST (#131605) #
Pistol, have you merged all of Rios' A-ball stats?

Yes. I took the stats from the Star's site which lumps them together. You make a better argument that Rios has improved than I have of saying 2003 was a huge outlier.

Mike Green - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 02:29 PM EST (#131606) #
Following up on Ryan Day's point, Rios was an FSL All-Star at age 21. He also went nuts in both the Olympic qualifying tournament and the Puerto Rican Winter League in 2003-04.

Whether he will be good in 2006, I don't know. But, as I have said before, his BBRef comps turned out almost universally to be good players. My projection for him in 2006: .290/.340/.420. In other words, an average offensive player and a very good defensive one.
Mike Green - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 03:08 PM EST (#131612) #
Well, they got these ones right. Ozzie Guillen and Bobby Cox were named Managers of the Year in their respective leagues.
Rich - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 03:18 PM EST (#131613) #
Even if Rios did hit .290 / .340 / .420, which I doubt he will, that slugging percentage out of 14 AL right-fielders would rank 13th (based on 2005 numbers). This past year Rios slugged .397, ranked (you guessed it) 13th out of 14 AL right-fielders with 400+ PA.

Unless Rios learns to catch or play short, it ain't good enough. It basically matches Mench's road numbers, which as been pointed out already, won't provide the club with a significant increase in runs.
Mike Green - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 03:34 PM EST (#131614) #
The AL positional averages for RF and LF were .270/.332/.451 and .278/.333/.437. It's an anomaly that the right field positional average is higher than the left field average. In any event, .290/.340/.420 with excellent defence in right will cut it. The question is whether he gets there. Obviously, I'd prefer a George Hendrick type who would probably go .275/.370/.480 and give you average defence, but finding one is a challenge.
Rich - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 03:42 PM EST (#131616) #
The question is, is the Jays offence good enough to carry a league average corner outfielder? Considering the team will get at best average power from left field, first base, and possible third base too, is this really good enough? I don't think it is, and that's even if Rios meets your projections, which is certainly no guarantee.

Upgrading a weak spot to an average spot won't put this team in the playoffs. There are enough average hitters in the lineup already.
Jordan - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 03:48 PM EST (#131617) #
Going back to the original post -- I'm not surprised, but I am a little alarmed, that Tony Lacava is interviewing for the Red Sox GM job. I don't blame him -- he's going to be a GM someday and he might as well start learning how these interviews go. And I'm not that worried he'd be offered the job -- the Red Sox are in damage control mode post-Theo and might feel they need to bring in someone with an established track record. But if he does leave the Jays' front office at some point, the club will be the poorer for it.
dave - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 04:07 PM EST (#131618) #
From Blair's new blog entry:

"Tony LaCava, the Blue Jays director of player personnel, is 44 years old and considered one of the rising front office stars in baseball. Yet he has informed the Boston Red Sox that he does not want to interview for their general manager's opening, after passing a similar message on to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays."
MatO - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 04:08 PM EST (#131619) #
I find it interesting that the last Hall Watch was on Jim Edmonds who until the age of 24 showed absolutely no power at all at any level and then at the age of 25 exploded with 33 HR's. I think we need to show a bit more patience with him.
Mike Green - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 04:28 PM EST (#131620) #
Incidentally, the RF pack in the AL has Sheffield, Guerrero and Suzuki at the top, and then a bunch of guys most of whom really aren't any more valuable than Rios. Sure, Emil Brown put up a better offensive line last year. But, just ask Zack Greinke whether he'd be happy seeing Emil out there or Rios..The positional averages are skewed by the presence of at least two Hall of Famers at the top.
Dan - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 04:38 PM EST (#131622) #

It seems Howard is available at the right price. This is a little old, but I don't think it has been discussed.

I think the Jays badly need a slugging first baseman. We can upgrade in right, or left, but the most glaring upgrade need is at first. Gillick wants a center fielder. Rios can play there and could centre a package. I personally might even consider inculding wells in a deal after his last season, but I'm hesitant.
Jordan - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 05:03 PM EST (#131624) #
Great news on LaCava -- kudos to Blair for getting the latest.

This is an interesting excerpt from his blog -- the most expensive FA signings of last winter:

* Carlos Beltran, OF, New York Mets: five years, $119 million
* Magglio Ordonez, OF, Detroit Tigers: five years, $75 million
* Adrian Beltre, 3B, Seattle Mariners: five years, $64 million
* Pedro Martinez, RHP, New York Mets: four years, $53 million
* Carlos Delgado, 1B, Florida Marlins: four years, $52 million
* Richie Sexson, 1B, Seattle Mariners: four years, $50 million
* Troy Glaus, 3B, Arizona Diamondbacks: four years, $45 million
* J.D. Drew, OF, Los Angeles Dodgers: five years, $55 million
* Derek Lowe, RHP, Los Angeles Dodgers: three years, $36 million
* Orlando Cabrera, SS, Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim: three years, $32 million
* Edgar Renteria, SS, Boston Red Sox: four years, $40 million
* Carl Pavano, RHP, New York Yankees: four years, $39.95 million
* Russ Ortiz, RHP, Arizona Diamondbacks: four years, $33 million
* Eric Milton, LHP, Cincinnati Reds: three years, $25.5 million
* Matt Clement, RHP, Boston Red Sox: three years, $25 million
* Armando Benitez, RHP, San Francisco Giants: three years, $23 million
* Jaret Wright, RHP, New York Yankees: three years, $21 million

How many of those players performed at a level commensurate with those contracts and their expectations? Martinez, Delgado, Sexson, Clement -- and that's pretty much it. Whether for reasons of injury or plain ineffectiveness, virtually everyone else on that list disappointed last season (and some of them were disasters).

The lesson from last winter is this: if you dip into free agency, you will almost certainly overpay for the talent, and you will very likely be disappointed with the production you get. As Blue Jays fans, keep that in mind as the silly season officially gets underway this weekend.
3RunHomer - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 05:27 PM EST (#131625) #
There should be an organization rule forbidding trades of players after "sophomore jinx" seasons.
Ron - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 05:32 PM EST (#131626) #
Like I said in another thread, I would flip Batista and Rios or League for Mench in a hearbeat.

A playoff contending team won't have Batista as the closer. I would rather have Downs as the long man than Batista. Rios has flamed out so far and he hasn't shown me the ability he will develop into a power bat. I would trade Rios while he still has some value left. League was awful last season in the minors and majors. He's only 22yrs old so he could turn it around, but I consider including him in a trade package as the price of doing of business.

Mench represents a huge upgrade over Rios at the plate. Mench should be good for 25-30 HR's next season. And as well all know, the Jays need some guys that will hit the ball out of the park. If Mench is aquired, I assume JP has done his homework and inquired about better bats like Tracy and Dunn, but the price was too high or the Jays didn't have the players other teams wanted.

Besides Mench, yesterday JP said Hinske will platoon at DH next season. All I can say is Paging Matt LeCroy Paging Matt LeCroy.
Mike D - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 06:18 PM EST (#131627) #
Jordan, I'd argue that Glaus more or less panned out. But I certainly agree with your overall premise.
Jdog - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 06:20 PM EST (#131628) #
Troy Glaus was hardly a dissapointment.

Here are his stats.

.258 .363 .522, 37 Hr , 149 Games Played
greenfrog - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 06:24 PM EST (#131629) #
Interesting that everyone is ready to give up on League. Remember, he's only 22 and has a great arm. He also made great strides in 2004 before stalling last year.

Pitchers don't always develop smoothly. It would have been easy to trade Halladay when he imploded at 23 (for an interesting retrospective on Halladay's development, see John Sickels's site,

I think part of the problem is that League was rushed to the bigs. He pitched 63 very mediocre innings at Syracuse before being promoted to Toronto. He got hammered last year, plain and simple. He needs time to develop.

Craig B - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 06:24 PM EST (#131630) #
Ducey - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 06:33 PM EST (#131632) #

I couldn't disagree more. Rios is only 24. Imagine he puts on 10 pounds of muscle a year for the next two or three years. See any problem with power then?

Under your senario you would dump Batista (a guy that is relatively cheap and has a great arm) and Rios for Mench. You get a guy who has the magical 25 homers but whose prodcution will drop off to make him a glorified lefty masher who can't outhit lowly Eric Hiske vs righthanders. Then you get to watch Rios turn into the next: over the next couple years.

I gaurantee that that trade would make you look like a fool in two or three years. I am not sure that Mench is even worth Batista straight up but to throw in Rios is just negligent.
Ron - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 06:47 PM EST (#131633) #
When we talk about Rios it's all about a bunch of "ifs".
During ST Rios said he added 10pds in the off-season and this didn't help him this season (Yes he hit 10 homers but his SLG went down). There is no guarantee he will become a power hitter. Besides he's never even hit 15 HR's at any profession level. Well you can argue he is still young and may develop, but you could say the same thing about every other player that is young. The key decision is to either hang on to him and see if he develops or trade him away while he still has trade value left. At this point, there's very little reason to believe Rios will be vastly better than what has he shown thus far.

If the Jays are going to contend for the playoffs next season, you can't give around 500 PA's to Rios. Mench would be a big upgrade.

The time to move Rios is now.
Ducey - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 06:48 PM EST (#131634) #

On the other hand your suggestion of LeCroy is a good one. He would likely come cheaper than Mench (as I think he is seen as just a platoon guy) and outhit Mench vs. lefties (.306/.404/.621). He could play a little backup catcher as well. Team him up with Hinske or Cat and you would have a decent platoon.

Is Minni looking to move him?
Ron - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 06:52 PM EST (#131635) #
Correction: Rios raised his SLG from .383 to .397 but took a big dip in BA, OBP, and OPS.

LeCroy is a FA.

Ducey - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 07:18 PM EST (#131638) #
"LeCroy is a FA."

You sure? He is not listed as such at or ESPN...
CeeBee - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 07:27 PM EST (#131639) #
NO... NO.... NO... anything more than Batista straight up is a total ripoff! ;) :)
Jordan - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 07:28 PM EST (#131640) #
I overlooked Glaus -- thanks for the correction.
Ryan Day - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 07:40 PM EST (#131641) #
I think people are focusing too much on Rios in a vaccuum. The question of "Will Alex Rios provide adequate offence in RF" can't really be answered unless we know what the rest of the team looks like. Rios isn't necessarily the problem: the problem is when you have Rios, Hinske, Hillenbrand and Catalanotto (and Koskie, if he doesn't rebound) all in the lineup together.

If, in a best-case scenario, the Jays were to add Giles or Dunnn, I don't think there would be any problem with keeping Rios around and putting his average production & low salary in the 9th slot in the order. (along with moving Catalanotto to DH and Hinske or Hillenbrand to... somewhere else) It's important to improve the offence as a whole, not just right field.

Rich - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 07:50 PM EST (#131642) #
Rios will be 25 shortly after he reports to spring training. He has 907 AB in the major leagues and 11 home runs. His minor league career high in homers is 11. Could he have a Lopez-like breakout season? Possibly. Yet keeping Rios instead of upgrading at his position is much riskier in my view than the risk of him turning into Lopez for another club. Let's also not forget that:
  • Lopez is a middle infielder, meaning the Reds could afford to live with a good-field, no hit performance had he not produced
  • the Reds had no hope of contending last year. If Lopez had bombed it would have been far less damaging than for the Jays to get another .700 OPS performance from Rios next year;
  • the Jays have the money to spend on a better player; the Reds are strapped and needed all the cheap labour they could find

Everyone agrees that Rios has the potential to develop, but the real question is: how many more at-bats can the Jays afford to give him to see if he actually will? Considering the state of the rest of team, I'd rather see someone else out there.

Dr. Zarco - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 08:18 PM EST (#131643) #
Sorry to again stray from the topic of trades, but there are reports on Chicago radio (take that however you like) that Paul Konerko is about to be offered a 4yr 52M contract.
R Billie - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 08:24 PM EST (#131644) #
Nothing about Mench particularly excites me. He's another Shea Hillenbrand with a lower batting average and more homeruns. He's in his late 20's. He's just entering arbitration so you're going to save much money on him beyond the current year. And his lefty/righty and home/away splits even over a number of years isn't particularly encouraging on Mench as an everyday player.

Batista for Mench is alright. I really don't like losing one of Rios or League in this particular deal. Deal them sure, but for Mench? He did put up a very good K/BB rate this year so maybe the Jays project bigger things for him ahead. And only if he improves from his current level does this deal seem worth while.

That's not a comment on whether this deal is FAIR. It's a comment on whether it provides the Jays the maximum improvement for the assets they're giving up. This early in the off-season to be pursuing this kind of deal...unless you're going to use the remaining $28 million to bring in three IMPACT players. Looking at players like Giles, Burnett, and Ryan.
JB21 - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 08:55 PM EST (#131645) #
"Then you get to watch Rios turn into the next: over the next couple years."

You realize that after the Jays let him go he hit .213 .313 .299 the first season followed by a .242 .314 .405 season.

If Rios came out and slugged under .300 this year would you still want the Jays to wait on him?? Do we have to wait forever incase he turns out to be the "next" Felipe Lopez??
danjulien - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 09:06 PM EST (#131646) #
What about Rios becoming a leadoff LF/CF? I don't think we'll trade Vernon but it's out there and Rios has speed, a glove and an arm to play the OF well. If he want more production from RF fine get someone in there and move Rios over. I'm so peeved that they've just wanted more power from him when you look at the early season and he was hitting for contact well, hitting the gaps. He needs some base running refining as we can all tell by his SB/CS stats but he could be a good leadoff hitter on a team that honestly kind of needs one
R Billie - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 09:13 PM EST (#131647) #
A leadoff hitter has to get on base though and Rios isn't great at that. Most of his value is tied to batting average and the promise of more power. Yeah...20 or 30 steals. I don't think that's a big deal over the course of 162 games. I'm much more concerned with what a guy does everyday at the plate than taking an extra base every 5 or 6 games.
Nick - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 09:14 PM EST (#131648) #
You wait for players to grow and develop when you are in the rebuilding process. Supposedly, the Jays are ready to take the next step. No more on-the-job training in the major leagues. That stuff is over. Who cares if Rios is a good player in 3 years - the Jays window is the next 2 years with Doc and Vernon (and JP) under contract through 2007. If you are not going to trade guys because you are afraid they might turn out to be good players in a few years, you'll never trade anyone. Under that mindset, you will only trade young players who you are absolutely positive will never develop into a good player. So why would other teams want these bad players? Do you think all the other teams in MLB are stupid? Come on. This is not the time to be scared to trade players. If you're too scared to trade one of the worst RF in the AL last year, then who are you willing to trade? Someone even worse than that? Who the hell is going to want bad players? It is time to take bold and risky moves. It doesn't mean the team should be reckless, but it's time to take the training wheels off. The Jays need excellent, proven major league players. Granted, easier said than done. It is my opinion, that if Alex Rios is the everyday starting RF in 2006, JP will have had an absolutely terrible offseason and the Jays will have no chance at the playoffs. The last few years, the Jays have played a lot of rookies and young players - it is now time to keep some of them and get rid of some of them. There is definitely not room for all of them if the team is going to make roster space for upper-echelon players that will help return this team to the playoffs. By the way, Kevin Mench is not an upper echelon player who will help the team make the playoffs. On the other hand, I wouldn't shed any tears seeing Batista go. The point of this post is to make the point that for the Jays to go anywhere, they will have to trade young players who "might" develop into good major league players in the future so we can have good major league players right now. I also agree with those who have said that Kevin Mench is not the answer. Toronto needs above-average, preferably well above-average MLB players, not mediocre ones like Mench.
Ron - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 09:37 PM EST (#131649) #
Let's say Furcal leaves the Braves as an FA.

You're the Jays GM and have been offered Johnny Estrada for Russ Adams, do you pull the trigger on that offer?
Jdog - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 10:08 PM EST (#131650) #
Ya of course you do. Next Question
Ryan Day - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 10:24 PM EST (#131651) #
Nope. Estrada's 29 and he's had one season that says he's anything more than a backup catcher. It was an exceptional season, but he came right back down to earth the next year.
Jonny German - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 10:56 PM EST (#131652) #
I scoff at the suggestion. Estrada came back down to waiver wire quality this past season.
Named For Hank - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 11:07 PM EST (#131653) #
If Rios came out and slugged under .300 this year would you still want the Jays to wait on him?? Do we have to wait forever incase he turns out to be the "next" Felipe Lopez??

I don't understand this comment at all -- so you're among the people clamoring for Rios to be traded away for nothing, simply to remove his bat from the lineup because you think he might have a career-worst year in slugging next year?

Again, I fail to see the value to the team of getting rid of him for nothing. And I really don't see what people like about Kevin Mench -- look at his road numbers and tell me he's a big enough improvement over Rios to be worth Rios AND someone else of value.

I'm all for trading him to improve the Jays. I'm mystified by the idea that by ditching him the team will be magically better because someone else will spring from the ground to take his place. Why not get something for him? Even if there's another player in the system you'd rather see playing in Rios' place on the big club, Rios has value. Cutting him, releasing him, trading him for a bag of balls or throwing him in on a deal just to get rid of him are all genuinely idiotic ideas, and thankfully the Jays know this.
rtcaino - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 11:32 PM EST (#131654) #
I think the Rios situation should be looked at like in terms of the chances of him getting better vs current trade value. Right now I don't think the value we would get out of him in a trade is very much at all. Unless he was a deal breaker, I would rather trade someone else. Which in the proposed Mench trade, he seems to be a throw in.

That said, I would say that League is more likely to reach his potential at this point than Rios.
JayFan0912 - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 11:47 PM EST (#131655) #
I wouldn't trade rios (or league) for mench -- there is nothing to gain and a lot to lose. Mench is going to be the same hitter he is now producing roughly what encarnacion is going to give you. On the other hand, rios is only 24, a lot of upside, and hasn't reached arbitration.

If you deal rios, then perhaps you can do it in a trade for kotchman. The angels need help at CF and SP, and maybe, they would trade kotchman for rios, chacin, and (if necessary) bush. This trade helps you fill a position of need with a ready to play elite prospect ... which is worth giving up rios IMO. It also makes sense for the angels, since they will need a starter with washburn about to leave, and their CF is a pitiful position for them - finley (I think) hit .214, so rios would be better than him.

greenfrog - Wednesday, November 09 2005 @ 11:57 PM EST (#131656) #
Another strike against Mench? He had a terrible second half in 2005. His OPS before the All-Star game: 907. In the second half: 682. Which suggests that the league might have started to figure him out.
Jobu - Thursday, November 10 2005 @ 12:04 AM EST (#131657) #
Or that he was overcome with guilt for taking out one of the best pitchers in baseball.... either or....
King Ryan - Thursday, November 10 2005 @ 12:05 AM EST (#131658) #
No, actually Halladay put a hex on him.
greenfrog - Thursday, November 10 2005 @ 12:30 AM EST (#131659) #
Maybe Mench stopped trying to go back up the middle, fearing more broken legs. I mean, because he's a mensch.

rtcaino - Thursday, November 10 2005 @ 12:39 AM EST (#131660) #
Either way, he did a terrible thing. A terrible terrible thing.

Jays Fan, you seem to imply RF is not a position we need to improve at. What were we, second worst in the AL offensively from that position?
Yes we need to improve in other places, but we do still need better production from RF.

And how is Mench being a Shea H type a bad thing. I'd take Shea's bat over Rios's bat. That would be a solid improvement. Plus we are under no obligation to keep Mench. Which is a better situation than we currently have with the Dude. (I know that's not a reason to get the guy, I'm just saying)
Magpie - Thursday, November 10 2005 @ 01:29 AM EST (#131661) #
Mench isn't a bad acquisition. He's coming off a mildly disappointing season (his age 27 year, no less) - he can probably play better than he did last year. What with the RC being pretty generous to RH hitters, he's probably quite capable of at least matching his 2005 numbers in Toronto.

But still. I'd be reluctant to give up League or Rios along with Batista. Twelve months ago, all it cost to get Shea Hillenbrand (who was a hitter of similar value, one year older, and also arb-eligible) was a minor league pitcher. Why does Mench cost so much more?

King Ryan - Thursday, November 10 2005 @ 01:31 AM EST (#131662) #
I'm pretty sure the Hillenbrand trade was a mini salary dump. He made about 4M last year IIRC. Mench makes the minimum (although I don't know how long that will last.)
Magpie - Thursday, November 10 2005 @ 01:36 AM EST (#131663) #
I'm pretty sure the Hillenbrand trade was a mini salary dump.

Yeah, I think so, too - but Hillenbrand only made $2.6 million for Arizona in 2004 (he made $3.8 in Toronto) - it's not exactly Mondesi money...

Mench is definitely arb-eligible now, and I suppose he'd get about 2.5 to 3 million.

rocococo - Thursday, November 10 2005 @ 01:38 AM EST (#131664) #
i think JP should only go after Mench if he loses out on Giles (likely) and can't get anything else via the trade route.
Now getting Burrell would be awsome (9.5M 2006, 13M 2007). The question is what is he worth giving up for. I'd give up rios, chacin and one of the many good pitching prospects. Abreu would cost too much, both in terms of salary and the players it would take to get him
Jacko - Thursday, November 10 2005 @ 02:00 AM EST (#131665) #
Philadelphia's new park is a bandbox. Moreso that Texas even:

Both Abreu and Burrell's lost over 100 points of SLG when they were away from Citizen's Bank Park...

CSHunt68 - Thursday, November 10 2005 @ 09:16 AM EST (#131674) #
There is little to make me, or anyone, believe that Rios is going to break out anytime soon. Every reasonable trade is a crapshoot, in the sense that the guy you trade away may very well blossom elsewhere. This doesn't mean that he would have blossomed with you, and shouldn't, in any case, stop you from trying to improve your team.

The fact is, at this point, Alex Rios is a well below average offensive rightfielder, with very little pop, on a team that needs to add offense more than it needs to add defense. If we're going to add two bats, which has been proposed by the GM, no less, this would be a good place to do it.

Miguel Batista is being paid five million dollars to be a mediocre closer. This is NOT good use of money, especially in the bullpen. If he were to go back to being a mediocre starter, you could make a case for his salary being useful to the Jays. Is anyone in the Jays organization proposing this? If so, I haven't heard it.

Kevin Mench is an above average hitting rightfielder, with good power - something the Jays could sorely use. His usefulness is _intensified_ with a team like the Jays because of their real dearth of power and offense.

Batista for Mench allows you to do with Rios what you see fit. Maybe he's best as the fourth, tools outfielder at this point. Keep him if you think he's got a solid future. If you think he's been passed by others lower down in the organization, or could be, why is he still in the plans? Batista for Mench ALSO frees up a few million dollars in salary that could be used elsewhere.

Is he the "big" bat they really need to replace Delgado? Probably not. Does he add offense to the team? I'm not sure how you argue otherwise - unless you think Rios is going to break out, or Mench is going to collapse. (I don't think either statement is really supported by the evidence to this point.) Mench could very easily be the first bat added, improves the offense, and frees up money to pursue other, more attractive bats. They would still have LOTS of money to throw around - money JP should, if he valued his job past the next season or two, feel obliged to spend.

Again, if it's going to take more than Batista, I guess you've got to weigh your options. If all it costs is another pitching prospect, I'm still leaning towards pulling the trigger on this one.
Rob - Thursday, November 10 2005 @ 10:10 AM EST (#131678) #
I'm confused as to how Kevin Mench has suddenly become the Holy Grail of the 2005-06 offseason. Toronto can do much better than a 106 OPS+.

Batista for Mench ALSO frees up a few million dollars in salary that could be used elsewhere.

But the Jays don't need to free up salary. Why make a salary dump?

Jobu - Thursday, November 10 2005 @ 10:20 AM EST (#131681) #
Not to be picky but Kevin Mench is NOT an "above average" RF.

Average AL-only RF last season:

.270/.331/.447 24 Hr 89 rbi

Kevin Mench last season (playing in his homepark with that line up around him):

.264/.328/.469 25 Hr 73 rbi

He only managed to be above average in slugging and HR (by one). The Mediocre Leg Breaker is no doubt an offesnive upgrade over Rios, but not "the bat" for the Jays nor reason to trade the tradeable farm boys.

Cristian - Thursday, November 10 2005 @ 10:39 AM EST (#131684) #
Why is trading or playing Rios the only alteratives? Can he still be sent down to Syracuse? The Jays must still have options on him. Why not send him down and let him prove he can hit AAA before being pencilled in as the Jays starting RF. Remember, Rios only came up because the team was crippled during the 2004 campaign. He was not hitting at AAA when he was called up. Now the Jays have more players than they know what to do with. There is no reason to keep Rios in the majors if he doesn't have to be here.
Rob - Thursday, November 10 2005 @ 11:11 AM EST (#131691) #
The Jays must still have options on him.

I believe Rios was on the 40-man in 2003. Thus, his three option years have expired.

CSHunt68 - Thursday, November 10 2005 @ 11:35 AM EST (#131699) #
You know what? If Sweeney at 12.5 mil is out of their price range, they apparently DO need to free up salary.
Mench ISN'T the Holy Grail of the off-season. He's an upgrade to Rios, and improves the run scoring component of this team.
That's all.
CSHunt68 - Thursday, November 10 2005 @ 11:38 AM EST (#131701) #
Oh, and Mench certainly WAS an above average RF last year. Maybe not much, but however much it was, it's an upgrade over Rios. And those 25 dingers mean more to the Jays than most teams.
Again, Mench isn't "the bat". He's A bat. Which would be a useful start to the off-season.
Jobu - Thursday, November 10 2005 @ 12:10 PM EST (#131712) #
CS, I really don't see how Mench is "above average". Even with his advantageous ballpark and powerful line up he was BELOW average in AVG, OBP, RBI, SB, and most defensive stats, as well as having noticeable home/away and lefty/righty splits and being 125th in position player vorp. In fact the only areas he is above average are HR and SLG and by the slightest margins. If from all that you can still extract that he was ABOVE average last year, then you have a successful career in the government ahead of you.
CSHunt68 - Thursday, November 10 2005 @ 04:55 PM EST (#131751) #
Really. I would have thought that he was below average "by the slightest of margins" in several of those stats you mentioned. Hmph. Just goes to show ya. ;)

We're talking offense here.
His OPS+, which accounts for park factor, was 106. This is clear of Rios by a good _22_ points. (Somehow, this isn't an upgrade??)

Now, technically he was a _left_fielder last year, having played 119 games there and only 41 in right.
His 25 homers put him a very comfortable third in LF. He would have been 5th among rightfielders. Both above average.
His RC27 put him pretty firmly in the middle of the pack (though, again, slightly above), but it's his above average ISOP that interests me more - and which should be of interest to the Jays.

Sorry, but in everything that should matter to the Jays, Mench is a (slightly) above average offensive player, and FAR clear of Rios, which is the point. His 25 homers would have put him SECOND on the Jays. Again, somehow this guy doesn't help??? I don't get it. And to repeat myself again, he's NOT "THE" bat. He's A bat. A bat better than MOST EVERY REGULAR JAY last year. I do not assign much value to Batista in the pen - he eats an inordinate amount of the payroll, and is a very mediocre "closer".

Batista plus some pitching prospect for Mench. Done. Either Rios or Cat gets moved, and the one left becomes the fourth OF. Or keep them both. Twelve pitchers is too many by at least one.

Bill James once made a point that a team can be so deficient in something, that acquiring it becomes important out of proportion to its natural value. Actually, he was talking about hiding deficiencies - having one too many big, slow, 1B-DH types, for instance, and needing to play one of them in a position he wasn't suited for. Anyway, the Jays tagged on a lot of runs in meaningless situations, making their offensive numbers look better than they should have. This team needs slugging and power, right in the middle of the lineup, in a bad way - they have slipped, power-wise, in so many positions that it's become an urgent need. The absolute dearth of a true power hitter hurts this lineup, and its ability to score runs, very badly. Mench helps bridge that gap. Tacking on 15 dingers at any position is a good start.
R Billie - Thursday, November 10 2005 @ 05:34 PM EST (#131753) #
My feeling is the Cat/Johnson platoon should not be touched. It could be moved to DH with someone else platoon with Cat there leaving Johnson free as an outfield starter against lefties. But it's also fine offensively and defensively in left field.

Collectively, it's a pretty good bet you'll get better than an .800 ops out of that platoon. And they'll cost around $4 million altogether assuming Johnson is arbitration eligible (not sure). This is a valuable, working part of the club. Why disturb it? Concentrate on improving slots in the lineup where there is more opportunity.

So in my mind then you're looking for two bats to slide into right field, left field, 1B, or DH. I have no problem with Rios moving on. I don't even have a problem with Mench moving in assuming that's the best possible trade.

OR you're looking for a significant upgrade at one of the middle infield positions. For instance, Garciaparra would be a significant upgrade over Adams. Marcus Giles could be a significant upgrade over Hudson.

John Northey - Thursday, November 10 2005 @ 06:00 PM EST (#131760) #
We could look at an interesting platoon mix.

Mench and Johnson from the right, Cat & Gross from the left. Mench and Johnson can play in RF or LF as can Gross. Cat is DH/LF only. If anyone breaks out he gets a full time slot, if anyone flops he gets to be benched or traded. Hinske and Hillenbrand share first base.

Only problem is now we would have ...
2 catchers
2 first basemen
4 middle infielders (Hill/Adams/Hudson/McDonald)
1 third baseman (Koskie)
5 outfielders (2 platoons and Wells)

Totalling 14 players which is 1 more than the Jays will probably go with. I guess Hill would be in AAA based on what JP has been saying though. I see playing time becoming a big factor if that is where it ends up though as only McDonald would be happy with a utility role. I suspect Mench would get LF full time while Gross/Johnson share RF and Cat gets the bulk of DH time. Hinske benched and Hillenbrand playing first. Hmm. Might work.

Pitching would now be (if FA goes as hoped)...
BJ Ryan
League/McGowen/Walker depending on youth/experience/etc.

I'd be happy if that was what showed up on 2006 opening day. Although I'd prefer a bit more in the hitting area changed (bigger bat at 1B or DH, replacing Cat or Hillenbrand or Gross [with Cat going back to LF and Mench to RF] plus Hill getting mixed in somehow).
CSHunt68 - Thursday, November 10 2005 @ 06:17 PM EST (#131763) #
14 players and 11 pitchers - that'd be JUST FINE. :D
They're still going to need a big bat at 1B. Hinske's gotta go. They've got lots of money, supposedly - let's make a splash and go after one of the big guys! Konerko? Giles? Ramirez???
Jobu - Friday, November 11 2005 @ 01:14 AM EST (#131796) #
Again just to clarify: no one is implying that Mench isn't a better offensive player than Rios (almost anyone would be), just that aside from some power statistics (in which he is still just slightly above average), and especialy including his various poor splits, he shows nothing indicating that he is an above average RF (the position he'd be brought here to play). Upgrade? Sure. Mediocre? Sure. Worth trading all our best tradeable parts? Ehhhhh....
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