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Many were the disturbing sights seen at the ballpark last night...


There was Casey Janssen's Luck finally running out...

There was Vernon Wells extending his hitless streak to 17 at bats....

But most unsettling of all was this note that appeared on the Jumbotron when Olmedo Saenz came to bat:

"Saenz is the longest-serving member of the Dodgers."

Olmedo Saenz? On the Dodgers? Shouldn't it be someone like Pee Wee Reese or Don Drysdale? OK, those guys don't play anymore - but someone like that?

Well, I'm pretty sure there was a time when Horace Clarke or Jake Gibbs was the longest serving Yankee.

And good times they were.

22 June 2007: Night of Horror | 48 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Alex Obal - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 01:43 AM EDT (#170334) #
The weird winds of Lake Ontario made their presence known last night too, adding to the chamber-of-horrors ambience. Aaron Hill's homer to right looked like a wind-assisted cheapie, as did Kent's double off the top of the RF wall against Janssen.

When Kent's ball bounced off the top of the wall and back into play I could've sworn Janssen was going to capitalize on the break and intangible his way out of the mess. Alas... he got stuck with one of the most vicious mentions I think I've ever seen in a boxscore: "Janssen pitched to 6 batters in the 8th." Ouch.
HippyGilmore - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 08:22 AM EDT (#170337) #

Wells and Thomas have been scuffling, agreed, but no blame goes to Glaus. His numbers for the season are really really really good.

Ryan Day - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 09:21 AM EDT (#170339) #

Well, it's kind of impressive when you can add almost a run and a half to your ERA and still end up at 2.37.

I'm not going to say that one happened because of the other, but this makes the decision to use Janssen in Tuesday's 12-1 win look even worse.

Halladayfan32 - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 09:25 AM EDT (#170340) #

Ken Rosenthal has a couple of Jays notes in his latest column:

"The Dodgers did exercise restraint on other pitching fronts last off-season. They declined to trade right-hander Brad Penny and right fielder Andre Ethier to the Blue Jays for right fielder Alex Rios, according to major-league sources, and also passed on sending right-hander Chad Billingsley and Ethier to the Devil Rays for center fielder Rocco Baldelli."

"For all the talk about the availability of Troy Glaus, Blue Jays G.M. J.P. Ricciardi says he has yet to receive a single call on the third baseman. "We're not looking to move him," Ricciardi says. "We've got a good team not only this year, but next year. He's a big part of what we're trying to do." Glaus, 30, has a full no-trade clause. He is signed for $12.75 million next season and holds an $11.25 million player option for 2009 . . ."

"The Blue Jays are among the clubs that like right-hander Daniel Cabrera, but the Orioles probably would not trade him unless they received a top-of-the-rotation pitcher in return . . ."

 

Do we really want a head case in Daniel Cabrera?

Mike Green - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 09:31 AM EDT (#170341) #
intangible his way out of the mess

Nice turn of phrase, Alex. 

Booing Casey Janssen after last night's outing might be a nadir of fan participation in Toronto.  Janssen has pitched well, and with good luck, all season.  He pitched less well yesterday, and with poor luck. One bad day and the fans boo?  Out of bad though, good can come.  Perhaps this outing will put to rest the notion that Janssen must remain as a set-up man the whole season.  He is not a better reliever than Jason Frasor and no better suited for the role. Brandon League's return will make it easier to move Janssen back to the rotation.
jmoney - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 09:59 AM EDT (#170342) #

While the fans were probably unhappy with Janssen's performance I think its a larger issue of the fans upset with a team that seems to be largely under achieving.

This team seems to lack the focus or whatever it is to put together any sort of a respectable win streak. So basically they're a .500 team. I think fans deserved better.

Chuck - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 10:09 AM EDT (#170343) #

One bad day and the fans boo?

Could it be that most fans at sporting events are basically just lab rats in Skinner boxes, responding to the stimulus of the moment? Yes, Janssen proved he was human. He had a terrible outing. But this is not part of a larger pattern warranting jeering. Some tepid applause upon his exit would have shown class and an acknowledgement for what he had accomplished prior to last night. But you need more than a handful of functioning synapses to make that nexus.

While I'm airing peeves, at what point, if ever, will fans be able to distinguish a lazy flyball to medium center field from a deep flyball that looks headed for the seats? Why are both cheered with equal vigor? And in last night's game, why was their so much cheering when Stairs scored the team's 4th run on a sacrifice fly? At that point, the Dodgers were more than happy to trade runs for outs. That particular sac fly was bad, not good. Do fans not know this? Is a run a food pellet, regardless of context?

I'm done with the soapbox. Someone else can have a turn.

Jordan - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 11:40 AM EDT (#170348) #

Booing Janssen is bad enough, but frankly, I'm not happy with the crowd booing Wells either. Yes, he's been hugely disappointing this year, but does anyone think for a moment he's not trying? Has anyone suggested he's been less than 100% professional in how he's carried himself this year or throughout his Jays career? Does anyone believe getting booed is going to motivate him to do better? From my perspective, booing in baseball represents a condemnation of character, not of performance; it says, "You, personally, suck." It's an extreme measure, not the first thing you pull out of the arsenal when you see something on the field you don't like.

Could it be that most fans at sporting events are basically just lab rats in Skinner boxes, responding to the stimulus of the moment?

Generally, yes, but Toronto baseball fans are some of the worst I've seen in regard to this sort of thing -- booing a player for one bad performance following numerous stellar ones, unable to tell a lazy fly from a deep drive, clapping only when the sound system tells them to, generally ignorant about anything nuanced (and most of the best things in baseball are nuanced). With stellar exceptions (many of them regular posters here), crowd behaviour at Toronto home games is often embarrassing.

Everyone blames the SkyDome/Rogers Center for being a lousy place to watch a game, but frankly, the deadness inside that stadium comes from the fans much more than the facility. Olympic Stadium was a mausoleum near the end, but 10,000 Montreal fans made more noise and had more life and fun than 30,000 Torontonians who stand up only to applaud a home run or go get another beer.

 A friend of mine was at the game years ago when Dave Stewart, then with Oakland, threw a no-hitter against the Jays. The couple behind him got up and left in the fifth inning, saying, "This is a terrible game. The Blue Jays don't even have a hit yet."

Okay, I'm done on the soapbox, too. Who's on deck?

Ryan Day - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 12:02 PM EDT (#170349) #

Some fans just aren't happy unless the team goes 162-0 and wins each game by at least ten runs. It doesn't help that Toronto fans don't seem to understand a lot of baseball - I've seen plenty of booing at close, but correct, calls that went against the Jays. They'll boo if an opposing player gets a hit, or a walk... exactly what are you booing? The lack of perfection?

Anyway. The only justification for booing Casey Janssen at this point in the season would be if he'd stopped to beat the bat boy on his way to the dugout. Even then, it'd be dicey - what's the bat boy done for us lately?

VBF - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 12:08 PM EDT (#170350) #
Thomas is one good series away from a .800 OPS. He's coming back.

I don't remember the fans booing Wells at all, to be honest. The applause for the 4th Matt Stairs run probably had to do with the perception that the Jays are always in the ballgame.

And yea, sometimes the frustration gets the better of fans. While a large number of Torontonians, and Canadians for that matter consider themselves to be fans of the Blue Jays, a significantly smaller percentage actually follow the team on a micro level--or at least enough to realize that Janssen has been great and that players are humans. Yesterday's attendance, relative to fan behaviour was a product of that. Alcohol and beligerency (sp?) also acts as a multiplier for stupid behaviour.

It was like when Doc got lit up by the D-Rays and some moron yob (who demonstrated solid knowledge of the game and players) booed Doc mercilessly and had a problem with us politely applauding The Man and claimed that in the early 90s, Red Sox fans would have booed Roger Clemens during his Cy Young season, if he had had one bad game.

Jays fans follow their team pretty well, and do a decent job of showing up to the game as long as the team is somewhat competitive, but in 30 years, they haven't grasped the concept of what it is to be a baseball fan. They take a very primitive "if something goes bad you boo, if something goes good you cheer" approach, and I don't see it getting better.

It gets very, very tiring.





Jordan - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 12:13 PM EDT (#170351) #
Oh yeah, I forgot to add one of my favourites: a Blue Jay player gets hit by a pitch -- unintentionally, in a non-damaging part of the body, sending him down to take first base -- and the fans boo.
Jordan - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 12:17 PM EDT (#170353) #

...claimed that in the early 90s, Red Sox fans would have booed Roger Clemens during his Cy Young season, if he had had one bad game.

Yes, and that worked out well for the Red Sox in the long run, didn't it? Two Cy Youngs in Toronto, one in New York, one in Houston.

Joanna - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 01:02 PM EDT (#170356) #

Despite what Thomas said about booing yesterday,  this is one of the reasons it is lame to do it. Because it encourages others who don't know about the game to boo everything, even things like a sacrifice fly.

Also, it's obnoxious. Janssen has owned this season and had one very ugly night.  Let's boo!  Make him feel like complete garbage!  And Vernon knows he is sucking right now, he doesn't need the drunk dude in the Red Sox hat, trying to look cool for his friends, to tell him.

Also, the anonymity of booing.  The majority wouldn't have the guts to stand in front of Frank Thomas and tell him, to his face, exactly what they think of him.

Craig B - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 01:06 PM EDT (#170358) #

Do we really want a head case in Daniel Cabrera?

GMs - I abasolutely HATE this - almost always overrate the guys who own your team.  In this case, since Cabrera owns the Jays, Ricciardi wants (apparently, and let's not put too much stock into what Rosenthal says) to bring him aboard, as if he never watches him pitch agains tthe other 12 AL teams.

Joanna - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 01:13 PM EDT (#170359) #

Two other things. Why was Janssen left in for so long when it was pretty clear after about the 2nd or 3rd hitter he faced, that he had nothing last night?

And re. Cabrera.  That dude can pitch.  Actually, scratch that.  That dude's arm can pitch.  He is very young still and definitely has head issues, but if he can ever put it together, he'd be very scary.  Kinda like it is with AJ.  I'd be surprised if the Orioles deal him.  But, then again, it is the Orioles.

Mike Green - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 01:15 PM EDT (#170360) #
It might be the fact that Cabrera has done well against the Jays, or it might be the mph on the fastball again...
Ryan Day - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 01:20 PM EDT (#170361) #
I'm sure a lot of GMs would take a chance on Cabrera, and they're all sure they know how to get him to throw the ball over the plate...
Alex Obal - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 01:33 PM EDT (#170362) #
Hey, all it takes is 15 minutes...

In general, I don't think trading for pitching is wise, even starting pitching. Obviously there are exceptions but it seems wildly overvalued. So why not hang on to your less injury-prone, less performance-volatile assets - your hitters - instead?

Plus Cabrera's probably into his fourth year of service time now, which diminishes the potential reward if you do fix him. If he were locked up cheaply for 6 years it would be different. Going after Cabrera now is kind of like taking a project high in the NBA draft. You get the guy on the rookie contract for three years, pay the opportunity cost of failing to take the more established college guy, and try to put the project together, knowing that you're forced for optics reasons to play him ahead of your own guys no matter how poorly he does, and that he's gone in three years no matter how well he does. When he hits the open market there's no question that his potential will make other GMs drool and put a Mechanically (okay that didn't come out right) ridiculous premium on his free-agent contract.
Gitz - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 01:38 PM EDT (#170364) #
I don't care one way or another about Cabrera, but if I was the Reds, I'd offer Roy Oswalt (18-1 career against them) about $500 million when he's a free agent. It's like you're guaranteed an extra five wins per year right off the bat! On the other hand, Oswalt  would then have five FEWER wins per year, since he'll not get to face the Reds again. So I guess in the long run it would balance out, or would depend on how Oswalt would do against the Astros? But then it's still ok, because he'll be so motivated against his former team that he'll dominate them like he did his new team (which was, ironically, his old team).

So the original thesis stands: the Reds should sign Oswalt for $500 million.



Hodgie - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 01:39 PM EDT (#170365) #
Alex, you aren't a Raptor fan by any chance are you?
Mike Green - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 01:39 PM EDT (#170366) #
Not to mention that if you're looking at the window of the next 3 years or so, the club needs position players (a catcher, a middle infielder and possibly a third baseman if Glaus has to move)  more than pitching.

I hadn't seen BBRef's game previews. They make a nice supplement to the Advance Scout.



Alex Obal - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 01:44 PM EDT (#170367) #
Alex, you aren't a Raptor fan by any chance are you?

Not a diehard, but I'm getting there. I'm a recently converted college basketball addict. The Raps' being the most likable team in North America's four major sports won me over this year and got me more into the NBA than I've ever been.

Mike Green - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 01:46 PM EDT (#170368) #
You'll notice in the small print of the previews that Dioner Navarro has the lowest batting average, OBP and slugging percentage in the majors.  I wonder if the Triple Crown of futility has ever been achieved by a batting title qualifier.
Alex Obal - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 01:48 PM EDT (#170369) #
Wow, hadn't heard about those BR previews either. !!! That site is incredible.

Road team is 0-6 all-time in Jays-Rockies games. Tonight is Josh Towers' night.
Ryan Day - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 01:56 PM EDT (#170370) #
Will Baseball-Reference make breakfast for me? Because that seems to be all it's missing now.
Bid - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 02:01 PM EDT (#170371) #

The fan-boob problem may in large part be television, which speeds baseball up, shows us where to look, moves to the rhythm of technical events, and features stultifying repetition (I’m talkin’ to you, Joe Morgan). If my default context is the bar or the tv room, I may simply not know that this new context works differently. Much better really, but the individual IS encouraged to actively follow the game.

 

Ever been to a concert at the ACC? Doesn’t matter who or what, everybody behaves as if we’re at a Leaf game…lots of purely attention-drawing noise and a constant back-and-forth for beer and nachos. Bad venue for musical enjoyment. From this perspective, live baseball isn’t, for many, the way baseball is supposed to be…it’s  too much and not enough, and our behavior is notes on confusion.

 

jeff mcl - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 02:18 PM EDT (#170372) #
I think alot of the booing/sarcasm, as inappropriate as some of it is, is the byproduct of some pretty massively unfulfilled hopes of a having playoff-calibre team in '07.  There was quite a bit of enthusiasm coming into this year and expectations were high, alot of us probably got more caught up in it than we should've.  In march I thought this was an 85-win club that might get a sniff if alot of things went wonderfully right.   I really wanted to believe that it was possible.

Following a pro baseball team is a huge time commitment; if you were to watch every game at roughly 3 hours a piece, that's almost 500 hours in front of the TV during good weather months for those of us who don't live in TO and get to go to the Rogers Centre so often.  Plus money for caps, shirts, game tickets, food, gas to TO, parking, etc.  The Joes out there who're more than casual fans pump alot of free time and money into following this team and I think their entertainment dollars justify a certain level of on-field performance.

 Alot more frustration results from the sense that every time you think this team is going to turn a corner and get TO .500 and then perhaps over it, they sink back in to the morass of mediocrity.  If a paying customer wants to razz an underperforming, overpaid player like Thomas or V-Dub, then fine, so long as it's with just cause.  With Janssen last night, out of line.  With Halladay ever, way out of line.  But don't ask fans to come to the park then sit back quietly watch their team collapse before their very eyes.


Ron - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 02:27 PM EDT (#170373) #
I've been thinking about this the past couple of days............

Why do sport teams almost always have a better home record than a road record each season? I guess you can argue there are different ballparks in baseball and different weather conditions in football. But Hockey and Basketball game conditions (size of courts/rinks are the same, played indoors)  are always the same and yet  teams almost always have a better home record. When teams slump at home, you often hear how they're just pressing and being "too cute" to impress the fans. But at the same time, when they go on a winning streak at home, players will be quick to credit how the fans give them the extra boost/energy to perform well.

I'll probably be dead before there's ever a rational explanation for this.

Dez - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#170375) #
There is a rational explanation.  Sports are psychological games.  Players are more comfortable at home, and the energy of the crowd helps.  Umpires/Referees may also be affected by the crowd.  In soccer, the home field advantage is so great that one of the tie breakers is the number of goals scored on the road.  
Rob - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#170376) #
I wonder if the Triple Crown of futility has ever been achieved by a batting title qualifier.

Last year, Angel Berroa did it. In fact, he would have done it both leagues, but for Clint Barmes and Adam Dunn hitting .220 and .234. Ramon Santiago was our winner in 2003. Neifi Perez would have the 2003 crown, but (wait for it) Raul Mondesi hit .232 for the Jays and Yankees.

2131 points for whoever can name the player with the lowest OBP among qualifiers in 2001. Hint: Joe Torre told A-Rod to move to third base to make room for him.
Mike Green - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 03:07 PM EDT (#170378) #
I think Navarro's got it for both leagues so far. 
AWeb - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 03:11 PM EDT (#170379) #
Just an add-on note with regards to soccer, the home field advantage is often in large part due to the referee, who can understandably (in light of many many violent incidents) get intimidated by home crowds.

For hockey, getting the last line change is a huge advantage.  Or at least it should be. If a hockey team isn't performing better at home than the road, the head coach should be fired.
Ron - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 03:14 PM EDT (#170380) #
Sports are psychological games.  Players are more comfortable at home, and the energy of the crowd helps.  Umpires/Referees may also be affected by the crowd.

All of this might be true but how do explain when players say they're pressing because they feel pressure playing in front of the home fans? Also when teams go on long losing steaks at home, players will often say it's good to go on the road because they can bond together and get out of the comfort zone of playing at home (basically in this situation playing at home is a negative). If the energy of the crowd really helps, I wonder how this impacts the Yankees. It seems like almost half of the crowd is rooting for the Yankees when they play on the road (especially when the games aren't against AL East teams).
AWeb - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 03:30 PM EDT (#170381) #
All of this might be true but how do explain when players say they're pressing because they feel pressure playing in front of the home fans? Also when teams go on long losing steaks at home, players will often say it's good to go on the road because they can bond together and get out of the comfort zone of playing at home.

Those are just things teams say when they're losing. When they win at home, playing at home is having the opposite effect; the same for going on the road. Professional athletes, like most people, have a strong need to assign reasons and explanations to every tiny event (a 3 game losing streak, oh noes!), when a simple "eh, it happens sometimes, can't win 'em all" would be better.
King Rat - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 03:30 PM EDT (#170382) #
Don't forget that travel is tiring and stressful even for people who are accustomed to it, and however nice your hotel accomodations, they aren't as relaxing as having a home of your own to go to after the game. I'm inclined to attribute most of the non game specific (excluding things like last line change and last ups) home field advantage to travel.
CaramonLS - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 03:37 PM EDT (#170383) #
Booing Janssen is bad enough, but frankly, I'm not happy with the crowd booing Wells either. Yes, he's been hugely disappointing this year, but does anyone think for a moment he's not trying? Has anyone suggested he's been less than 100% professional in how he's carried himself this year or throughout his Jays career? Does anyone believe getting booed is going to motivate him to do better? From my perspective, booing in baseball represents a condemnation of character, not of performance; it says, "You, personally, suck." It's an extreme measure, not the first thing you pull out of the arsenal when you see something on the field you don't like.

Booing is really the only way that fans can voice displeasure at the player in question, unless of course JP decides to print off a list of da Box comments and post them on the player's lockers.  It isn't nearly as black and white as you might consider it, fans might be booing Vernon Wells the person as well as his performance on the field.  I was recently rather cheesed at his comments last week when Campbell mentioned that it looked like he was breaking out of the funk he was in (after having a rather productive outing), and Vernon Wells replied "Well, I really don't know what I've been doing wrong all season".  That speaks volumes about his character and dedication to the game of baseball, because anyone watching him on a regular basis knows that one of the main reasons Vernon Wells is struggling is because a) he is swinging at pitches which are obvious balls around his shoulder/chest area and he doesn't nearly have enough patience.  Pitchers know this and keep throwing him stuff in that zone and he keeps getting out.  Pop ups galore.  He hasn't made the adjustments.

He also said something very similar 2 years ago (at the same time ted the tease was having problems) - Ted at least said the right thing and that he really needed to work his his mechanics and make the proper adjustments, while Vernon seemed completely clueless as to what is going on.

Maybe he just feels like portraying himself this way in the media for some reason, but to me it reeks of being unprepared for the game, and that has certainly shown itself this year when he has been making the exact same mistakes at the plate on numerous occasions.
BigTimeRoyalsFan - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 03:51 PM EDT (#170385) #
"And yea, sometimes the frustration gets the better of fans."

Well done VBF. This is a point many around here, especially Joanna, seem to not realize. People aren't necessarily booing the player's effort or his performance. They are venting their frustrations at a prospective playoff contender being under .500, and doing so through its biggest star, its franchise player. There doesn't need to be a benefit to doing so, and there can even be negative results. That doesn't make it stupid or the wrong thing to do.
Mike Green - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 04:04 PM EDT (#170386) #
Swinging at pitches up and out of the strike zone can occur because the player is trying to do much, or because the player simply does not recognize the pitch location well enough and early enough.  The reason for pitch recognition difficulties can be as simple as a small decline in eyesight. 

I certainly wouldn't infer from an "I don't know" response that a player wasn't trying to fix the problem. 

It is true that it is hard to boo a team as a whole. If a club makes four errors in an inning, and the fans start to boo, it is understood that it is directed at the entire defence rather than the player who made the fourth error, but otherwise it'll usually be seen as a comment on a pitcher or batter. 

CaramonLS - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 04:09 PM EDT (#170387) #
I certainly wouldn't infer from an "I don't know" response that a player wasn't trying to fix the problem.

I would, how can you try to fix the problem if you claim to not know what the problem is?

How is swinging at bad pitches a sign on pressing too hard?  What I see is a man who has been making the exact same mistakes all season long and not making the right adjustments.
christaylor - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 04:09 PM EDT (#170388) #
I don't buy the criticisms of the booing - think about the head space of the fans that are booing on any given night. Mind you, I never boo the home team, no matter the futility (like someone said, it is not like they are not trying) but for those against booing, those booing are living in the moment, for 90% of folks booing this is probably the one game they'll see all season - they want to see a win and if the product on the field is disappointing that one night, it makes their one experience to see the Jays, unpleasant, then that player's performance the rest of the season, be damned - such folk will go after that player. If a given player (particularly a reliever) stands out at the reason for their seeing a loss for the one game they'll see all year. Also, booing seems trendy - those very same fans booing last night probably read Thomas responding to the boos... so they were primed and ready to boo. If Thomas hadn't of reacted with comment to the press, I doubt we hear anything from the crowd.

On a more interesting topic. I think if Ty has a couple of bad starts, Janssen should be in the rotation. I'm getting less and less fond of Janssen in the pen, I'd rather see Frasor/Tallet in Downs role, Downs in Jassens or Downs & Janssen pitching more than one inning.
Four Seamer - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 04:14 PM EDT (#170390) #

I'm certainly glad that nobody comes to my office and boos me when I don't get results, but then again, nobody pays to come watch me work and be entertained in the process.

I agree with several of the comments above that the fans at the Rogers Centre, as a group, appear to possess very little knowledge about the game, since no other reasonable explanations exist for their brain-dead reactions from time to time.  I wouldn't say that that's the only reason I haven't been down to a game this year, but the nonsense one has to put up with certainly makes staying home attractive. 

But I also agree with other posters insofar as I suspect much of the booing that has come the last several nights, though ostensibly directed at a handful of players, is more likely a response to the team's lacklustre performance this year.  What was (perhaps fraudulently) billed as a playoff contender is a pretty middling team, and since management seems more inclined to make excuses than hold players (or themselves) accountable for the team's failings, the fans who do show up have only one way to express their dissatisfaction.  As someone who follows the team but basically free rides on those who do go to the games and spend their money at the park, I'm a bit reluctant to pass judgement on the boo-birds. 

CaramonLS - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 04:15 PM EDT (#170391) #
On another more positive note, Philly fans did boo Mike Schmidt right into the hall of fame.
John Northey - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 04:28 PM EDT (#170392) #
Heck, Philly fans have been known to boo Santa Claus.

'Knowledgable' towns NY and Boston have had their lowlights too, booing A-Rod and Ted Williams for example.

The whole 'fans in city xyz are idiots' thing gets old really, really fast. Every single city has fans who know baseball inside and out, every single city has fans who are pure bandwagonners who wouldn't know how to hold a bat or throw a ball. The ratio adjusts game to game and, unless you have 100% sell outs every game with most of those being 'true' fans you will get lots of booing and cheering when it "shouldn't" occur.

Think about it, no one could honestly say Toronto fans know nothing about hockey yet we have all seen fans at the ACC as a group sit on their hands when noise is called for, or walk away when a big play is occuring, etc. Yet the same level of non-sports smarts is shown at a Jays game and people say how Toronto fans are not 'real' baseball fans and this isn't a 'real' baseball town.

I think this is probably like sending emails to the Star complaining about the articles in their paper about baseball, but at least I got this off my chest ... for now.
Gitz - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 04:34 PM EDT (#170396) #
Maybe it's because people on the west coast of the U.S. are more laid-back, but very rarely do home-team fans here boo stars who are struggling, especially those who have been life-long members of the organisation. A's fans tore into Ruben Sierra during his tenure in Oakland, but, frankly, he deserved it, and they were less than kind to Johny Damon after he popped out to second base 567 times (and if I exaggerate, I assure you it's on the low end) during the 2001 season, but a home-grown player like Eric Chavez or Miguel Tejada? Never happened, no matter how exasperated they were with the former's (seemingly) myriad pathetic at-bats in clutch situations and the latter's puzzling mental lapses, which always seemed to occur at the worst time. It's the same, if not even more laid-back, in Los Angeles, where the fans are there as much for the ambiance of a charming southern California evening in July as much as they are for the game.

And probably Giants fans won't get around to booing a free-agent acquisition like Zito, because, having seen him work for the A's the last few years, they know this is what's he about: dazzling stuff one game, an endless struggle to get out the fifth inning another. It should also be noted that SF fans rarely, though it has happened, boo Bonds. True, he rarely slumps, and though he's not the most likable person in the world, Giants' fans have for the most part treated him with grudging respect. For better or wrose, they've never embraced him the way they did Will Clark, Kevin Mitchell, Ellis Burks, and others. (They never embraced Jeff Kent, either.)

Zito and Wells make for interesting comparisons. Why aren't SF fans letting Zito hear it? Familiarity with his style or not, and regardless of the more genial nature of west-coast people, he's been a massive disappointment relative to his salary. As for Wells, while I understand that fans are wanting to get their money's worth -- that's the burden of signing a $118- or 126-million contract, a burden we'd all happily bear! -- and in general fans hold their superstars to high standards (as do the stars themselves, it must be said) no matter their salaries, Wells is a good character guy, and those types tend to get a long leash from fans.

On the other hand, I will never, never, never, never, never understand why Phillies fans booed Mike Schmidt.
Mike Green - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 04:43 PM EDT (#170400) #
Maybe that whole brotherly love thing is an urban myth.

Brief Acquaintance John Thomson was signed by the Royals.  That makes sense.

Magpie - Friday, June 22 2007 @ 04:46 PM EDT (#170401) #

Philly fans did boo Mike Schmidt right into the hall of fame

Yes, but Phily fans are especially twisted and bitter (the Phillies have lost more games than any team, ever.)

No one wants to be like them!

Chuck - Saturday, June 23 2007 @ 12:08 PM EDT (#170441) #
Maybe that whole brotherly love thing is an urban myth.

Conjures up Woody Allen's line from Love and Death: I loved him like a brother, just not one of mine.
22 June 2007: Night of Horror | 48 comments | Create New Account
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