Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - 28 July 2008: What You Want, Baby I Got It

28 July 2008: What You Want, Baby I Got It

Well, I give up. It grieves me to say this, but I'm pretty sure the Tampa Bay Rays are not going to lose 90 games this season. I suppose a little respect would not be out of line.

It was fun while it lasted, and it lasted. Only two teams in history have managed to put together ten consecutive 90 loss seasons in a row - the Philadelphia Phillies (1936-1945) and the Tampa Bay Devil Rays (1998-2007.)

Was it the name change? Was it as simple as that? Just removing that devilish modifier?

Nah - back in the spring, Gwyn wrote

These guys are for real.

And they're about to become really damn annoying.

And it came to pass. I hereby submit. R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Don't sock it to me no more.

What I think has happened here is the Ottawa Senators effect. You hockey fans must all remember how utterly bad and awful the Senators were, year after year after year. And they kept drafting first overall, or second or third - and eventually, they couldn't help themselves. Even if they blew a pick or two on guys who didn't quite work out - Alexandre Daigle anyone? - in time, the sheer accumulation of talented youth, or the talent they were to obtain in exchange for that youth, won the day.

And so it is with not-so-devilish Rays. Drafting Josh Hamilton didn't work out for them, but they got Carl Crawford in the second round the same year. Rocco Baldelli proved to have all kinds of talent, but all kinds of health issues - but they nabbed James Shields in the 16th round of the same draft. Dewon Brazelton was a wasted pick, but Jonny Gomes came in the 18th round. They wasted little time getting rid of Delmon Young and turning him into Matt Garza, which has worked out very well for them. And they're running B.J. Upton and Evan Longoria out there every day.

So - they're the Ottawa Senators. Young and good, and likely to stay that way for awhile, even if they haven't actually accomplished anything significant yet.

I can mock them no more. They come to town tonight, having beat up on the Jays pretty well every time the two teams have met this season. I am.... apprehensive. I don't want to think about it. I have to cover two of these three games. I am not confident that I will be enjoying my work.

So - a diversion is in order.

Tampa is the Ottawa Senators. Let's link up other hockey teams with other baseball teams.

The Detroit Red Wings and Boston Red Sox seem too obvious a match for words. Famous franchises, with a great and distinguished history, who at this moment are more or less on top of the world. The reigning champions, loaded with talent on the ice and on the field, and run by really smart guys. Often utterly despised by the fanbase of the other teams, because they have such a high regard for themselves and then they... well, they go out and kick your ass. With style, with panache! (All right, all right. I confess to being a Red Wings fan. I have been one ever since I got a Gordie Howe sweater for Christmas. When I was six. My longest, deepest sports loyalty.)

Who are the Leafs? First thing that came to my mind were the L.A. Dodgers. They think they're the greatest franchise around. They're not and they never were, but they persist in the illusion. Their fans let them get away with it. And they haven't won anything signifiant in a generation (two generations, for the Leafs. So maybe they're the Giants... nah, the Giants know they suck. The Dodgers don't.)

The Montreal Canadiens might be the Yankees, except there's something attractive and loveable about the Habs. The Yankees, not so much. Neither team has won the big prize for an eternity - eternity, in this case, is measured entirely by the way Canadiens and Yankees fans think of these things. Which, by the way, do not even remotely resemble the thought processes or general expectations of the fans of any other franchise in the sporting world, with the possible exception of Manchester United.

The parallels are there, people! Waiting for us to find them!

Posted by Magpie on Monday, July 28 2008 @ 12:45 AM EDT.

28 July 2008: What You Want, Baby I Got It | 48 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

nanook - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 01:32 AM EDT (#189584) #

At first blush, I might link Nashville with the A's or the Twins. The A's probably win too much, but both teams continually seem to re-invent themselves by getting younger and cheaper, and in the process, better. The jury is still out on whether the Predators can win, but I was amazed at how competitive they were after being gutted.
By the way, 50 years and counting as a fan GO WINGS!

Geoff - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 01:50 AM EDT (#189586) #

A week ago it was actresses, now it's hockey teams?

Is there any transitive property to the Rays where

if the Rays = Nicole Kidman;
and the Rays = Ottawa Senators;
then Kidman = Ottawa Senators?

I like casting the old Penguins as the Pirates (if only the Pirates could draft so fortuitously) and the old Wirtz Blackhawks as the Marlins. Cheapskates.

The Oilers might make a good A's team. Past glory difficult to rekindle; trying to find success on the cheap. And the Ducks could stay close to home with the Angels as organizations with excellent depth thanks to good farm system and a championship under their belt while being overshadowed by larger LA market and more established franchise.

SheldonL - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 02:40 AM EDT (#189587) #

Game of the week - Thurs Cubs vs. Brewers

PEOPLE WATCH THIS GAME! It's on Rogers Sportsnet at 2pm

This is literally THE highlight of my week: Dave Bush is pitching against Rich Harden... neither is on my fantasy team. This is purely the baseball fan inside of me itching to watch this game!!!

There's a story behind this game. In 2004, David Bush was a Jays prospect making his 3rd ever start in the bigs. He was facing an electrifying Canadian flamethrower by the name of Rich harden.
Well, Harden was also a rookie, having been called up just a couple of months prior. Bush is more of a finesse pitcher, toys with the hitters with deception whereas Harden throws heat, tons of it, and dares the hitter to try to catch up with his fastball!
Well, I was watching this game on tv back in 2004 and both guys completed the 8th innings with no-hitters intact.

Well, both guys had their no-hitters broken in the 8th!!!
... but due to high pitch counts, each had to be lifted from the game with the score 0-0.

Unfortunately this meant that the relief pitchers would ruin the end of the game as somebody's got to lose, y'know!

Well, it's been 4 years and these guys get to face each other again for the rematch... and you can bet that I'm not missing it for the world!

Mike Forbes - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 03:19 AM EDT (#189588) #

I'm gonna be that guy who compares the Jays...

Toronto is the Calgary Flames. An older team that really isn't that exciting, but has a couple stars and nothing beyond that.

Magpie - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 04:09 AM EDT (#189591) #

The Philadelphia Flyers and the Cincinnati Reds are starting to fall into place for me. Yeah, they've had some pretty good players (I can hear Mick already - Bench? Morgan? Rose? Pretty good?!?) but it doesn't matter. They seem to have made it their life's work to rub me the wrong way.

Now no one but no one quite does that like the Flyers, but the Reds have had their moments. Dick Wagner. "No facial hair." Marge Schott. Pete Rose writing his name into the lineup, and finishing second. Eric Davis' kidney, and how they treated him. Even Sparky bugged me back in the day, and how is that even possible?

But happily, all either team has been able to do since their mid 70s Moment of Glory is look back and wonder where it all went. Except for the fact that Piniella's Reds somehow snuck off with another title in 1990. There's another reason Tony LaRussa bugs me, just for letting that happen.

Anyway, I'm just now getting over all that. I really am. I think. I mean I'm doing my best here, Mick! Really! In every day, in every way, I'm getting better and better.

But as for the Flyers... never. NEVER! I shall always hate and despise them. Always! My remaining years aren't long enough to give them all the contempt I think they deserve. But I'll never stop trying...

Gosh. Was that a little over the top?

zeppelinkm - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 10:04 AM EDT (#189597) #

Not at all Magpie.

I loathe the Flyers. Always have and always well. As a Canadien's fan, a big part of had to do with how they, not once, not twice, but three times in my lifetime took a player I liked on the Habs, who didn't do well (or as well as he was expected to) and got traded for 3 quarters on the dollars to the Flyers, only to see that player turn into star on the Flyers.

1 & 2. John LeClair and Eric Desjardins were traded TOGETHER (!!!) for Mark Recchi. Desjardin made the all star team twice with the Flyers and LeClair turned into a Hab Killer while posting 3 consecutive 50 goal seasons and making 5 straight all star teams.

3. While Recchi was good for the Habs, they apparently decided he would be better back on the Flyers and gave him back to them for Dainius Zubrus who effectively did NOTHING for the Habs. Argh.

I guess Recchi was more of a star before he came to the Habs (he posted multiple 100+ point seasons for them, while for the Habs he never topped 80 and definitely had some medicore seasons for them).

Still, they were the team (and still are) I cursed more then any others.

Mike Green - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 10:14 AM EDT (#189598) #

The Dodgers/Leafs and Yankees/Habs links work particularly well in the 50s and early 60s. Linking Dave Keon with Sandy Koufax is a bonus for the 7 year old in me.

Next question: if you're going to show a little respect, is it Aretha or Otis?

Magpie - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 10:43 AM EDT (#189600) #

is it Aretha or Otis?

Both?

Dan Daoust - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 11:09 AM EDT (#189602) #

What I think has happened here is the Ottawa Senators effect. You hockey fans must all remember how utterly bad and awful the Senators were, year after year after year. And they kept drafting first overall, or second or third - and eventually, they couldn't help themselves. Even if they blew a pick or two on guys who didn't quite work out - Alexandre Daigle anyone? - in time, the sheer accumulation of talented youth, or the talent they were to obtain in exchange for that youth, won the day.

And yet, the Pirates can't seem to benefit from their drafting. I guess they're the Harold Ballard Era Leafs.

AWeb - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 11:09 AM EDT (#189603) #

Is there a reasonable baseball comparison to the bittersweet Quebec/Colorado saga, where a team sucked for years, finally becomes one of the best, and then moves, acquires a player who was formerly their most hated rival, and wins a championship (and then soon more)? That's a lot to ask for, but among baseball teams that moved, have any had immediate success in their new location after none in their old one?

I would think WInnepeg/Phoenix is a decent comp for Montreal/Washington - some good teams, never quite good enough, moved, then disappears into anominity and is entirely forgotten and in worse shape than it ever was in the old market that supposedly couldn't support a team.

New Jersey Devils = Atlanta Braves for the last 15 years?

Gwyn - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 11:44 AM EDT (#189606) #

among baseball teams that moved, have any had immediate success in their new location after none in their old one?

The A's had 13 losing seasons in Kansas City from when they moved there in 1955, and then immediately started winning when they moved to Oakland in '68. They had 9 winning seasons in a row including three world series to start their time on the west coast.

danjulien - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 11:52 AM EDT (#189607) #

tallet hits the 15 day, hill hits the 16 day and richmond is called up:
From the press release:

"RICHMOND, 28, has made five starts for the Syracuse Chiefs, posting a 0-2 record with a 2.53 ERA. He has limited opponents to a .210 (25-119) average, while walking only six and striking out 31 in his 35 innings. In 19 starts for New Hampshire (AA) of the Eastern League, he was 5-8 with a 4.92 ERA.

The native of North Vancouver, British Columbia was signed this past off-season as a non-drafted free agent after pitching three seasons in the Independent League for Edmonton. "

Magpie - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 11:58 AM EDT (#189608) #

Do the Giants and the Blackhawks make any sense? A famous old franchise, but it's been half a century since they won anything. Willie Mays and Bobby Hull are on the verge of slipping out of living memory.

The Bruins might be a better comp for the Reds. Two franchises with a long histories, neither tremendously distinguished - and then in the early 1970s they put together one of the most impressive teams in history, featuring some of the very greatest players in the history of the sport. I'm thinking Orr and Esposito are a better comp for Bench and Morgan than Bobby Clarke and Bill Babrer...

Timbuck2 - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 12:31 PM EDT (#189614) #

Not only have the called Scott Richmond up from AAA but he's getting the start on Wednesday in place of Parish:

http://torontosun.com/Sports/Baseball/2008/07/28/pf-6284351.html

Timbuck2 - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 12:33 PM EDT (#189616) #

Oh and if you're interested in see his face before he starts:

Scott Richmond

ds - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 12:58 PM EDT (#189618) #

As one of the few Sens fans on this more Toronto centric board, I have to somewhat disagree with Magpie's observations. The Sens did have lot of early draft picks, but minus Yashin and Redden (acquired through Berard trade) in his earlier years, I wouldn't say they got a lot of impact players from their high drafting position. Their early picks are as follows: Yashin, Daigle, Bonk, Berard, Phillips. All of them have had serviceable careers, with a couple of very good peaks in there. But Crosby and Malkin they ain't. Most of Ottawa's early success was due to astute scouting (ie. the first team to regularly draft overage Europeans (Alfredsson, Dackell, Arvedson, Demitra), Hossa at 16th, Havlat at 29th) and some very intelligent trades (Duschene for a couple of draft picks, Spezza/ Chara for Yashin). The Rays has had a lot more top 5 picks to work with than the Sens ever did. I would say Ottawa is probably closer to Arizona (minus the championships of course) in terms of perennial contention and speed of competitiveness (6 years before playoffs and haven't missed one since).

Back to the Jays, anyone know why Parrish was pushed back?

Mike Green - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 01:19 PM EDT (#189621) #

Tampa hits RHP better than LHP, and so Richmond getting the Wednesday start for Parrish wasn't made for that reason. Hmm. Perhaps there is a health reason.

ayjackson - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 01:29 PM EDT (#189622) #

The Sens did have lot of early draft picks, but minus Yashin and Redden (acquired through Berard trade) in his earlier years, I wouldn't say they got a lot of impact players from their high drafting position. Their early picks are as follows: Yashin, Daigle, Bonk, Berard, Phillips.

The Rays have not had much return from Hamilton, Baldelli, Brazelton, Upton, Young and Niemann, whom were their picks from 1999-2004 (none lower than 6th)

Ryan Day - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 01:38 PM EDT (#189623) #

Maybe the Jays saw enough to determine Parrish wasn't going to be a MLB starter. And with Tallet on the DL, the Jays only have three lefties in the pen, so that obviously needs some reinforcement....

sweat - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 01:48 PM EDT (#189624) #

Maybe AJ will be gone before he can make his start tonight, and they need someone around for that reason?

Geoff - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 02:13 PM EDT (#189627) #

I'd peg the Islanders to be your Baltimore Orioles. Controversial owner at the root of franchise's mismanagement. It has been speculated that Angelos might turn over the reigns to Cal Ripken, former shortstop. Wang has given his reigns to Garth Snow, former backstop. The Islanders have 4 championships and 6 conference titles, with 6 division titles. The Orioles have three championships and 7 league pennants and 8 division titles. Last time either won it all was in 1983. Both use orange in their team colours. Neither team is afraid of developing young Canadian guys.

Geoff - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 02:26 PM EDT (#189630) #

So in the AL East we have the

Detroit Red Sox
Ottawa Rays
Montreal Yankees
New York Orioles and the
Calgary Jays?

Geoff - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 02:48 PM EDT (#189632) #

And in the NL East we have the

Toronto Phillies
New York Mets
Chicago Marlins
Phoenix Nationals (formerly the Winnipeg Expos)
New Jersey Braves

Leafs used to be known as St. Patricks and Arenas. Phillies used to be known as the Blue Jays and Quakers. Old franchises, past glory, completely different stages of returning to it but fan base often remains optimistic no matter what.

The Mets are the Rangers -- plenty of money, plenty to prove, plenty of ambition. Supremacy very difficult to achieve and is very fleeting. Perhaps there is a better analogy for the Mets out there...

Geoff - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 03:23 PM EDT (#189637) #

In the NL West I like the

Colorado Dodgers
San Jose Diamondbacks
Dallas Giants
Nashville Rockies
Buffalo Padres

Geoff - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 03:26 PM EDT (#189638) #

somehow I hear team theme music of a resampled Bob Marley song for the Buffalo Padres.

Mick Doherty - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 05:13 PM EDT (#189645) #

Magz,

Bench? Morgan? Rose? Pretty ... Oh wait, you said that for me.

I believe the mid-'80s Reds were the Best MLB Team to Never Win Anything. What hockey team would that make them?

Thanks, Pete.

Mick Doherty - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 05:53 PM EDT (#189647) #

Dallas Giants

???

Geoff - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 06:20 PM EDT (#189648) #

Sure, everything's bigger in Dallas.

Like the Giants, the Stars left a proud and faithful fanbase who shared mixed feelings about seeing the team leave. Some would spit at the mention of their name, others would fondly follow their exploits in their new location.

Both left town a few years after a memorable championship run. (of course the Giants won in 1954, while the Stars lost in 1991 but came oh so close.) The Stars have had 7 division titles, 2 conference titles and one championship in their new locale while the Giants have 6 division titles and a wild card berth and 3 league pennants with no championships in their new locale.

The Giants have Willy Mays; the Stars have Mike Modano. Both shining stars whom fans were sad to see go with the franchise after four full seasons. And soon, Brad Richards will become the next Barry Bonds {cue ominous music} ....

Mick Doherty - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 06:26 PM EDT (#189649) #

Oh, okay. I see. That's good. I hadn't made the Minnesota/New York connection.

Geoff - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 06:40 PM EDT (#189651) #

Similarly, I hope for a Quebec/ Brooklyn connection to make the Colorado Dodgers. If only there were a North Stars/ Nordiques rivalry to work in to piece them together. Both the Dodger and Nordique franchises enjoyed championships after the move, but while the Dodgers got one championship before leaving town, the Nordiques were robbed of a prime opportunity for a championship by a lockout.

Magpie - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 07:01 PM EDT (#189653) #

You're Welcome. Glad We Could Help

From tonight's Tampa Game Notes:

... Rays season took off with a three-game sweep of the Blue Jays at Disney April 22-24

They're Coming To Get You

Also from the Notes:

The Rays are 4-0 against Halladay and Burnett in 2008 and are the first team to beat them both twice in one season since Burnett joined the Jays in 2006... Rays will try to become just the 2nd team to beat Burnett 3 times in one season (he was 0-4 against Atlanta in 2005) and the second team to beat Halladay three times in one season (he was 1-3 vs Boston in 2007)

Yes, these guys are getting really annoying.

The Rays have spent 93 days over .500 this season. In their previous 10 years, they spent a total of 72 days over .500

Thomas - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 07:45 PM EDT (#189657) #

Mike Winters, last seen baiting Milton Bradley in the play last September when he tore his ACL, just blew a call at third base.

greenfrog - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 09:48 PM EDT (#189661) #

The Jays obviously miss Aaron Hill, but:

Inglett (career): 292/346/411
Hill (career): 284/339/409

Hill has higher upside and plays better defense, but Inglett has been a pretty useful (and cheap) sub. Exceptional, I'd say. Especially given some of the fodder the Jays have tried at 2B in recent years (Adams, Alfonso...I can't even remember the others).

Timbuck2 - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 10:09 PM EDT (#189665) #

I like Inglett.

When I look at his Minor League stats I see a good hitter that was left to rot in the minor leagues.

rtcaino - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 11:36 PM EDT (#189669) #

Wow, very impressive ML stats for Inglett!

For some reason I thought that he just turned it up this year. I don't how teams would not jump all over a left hand hitting 2b with those numbers.

Also, is anyone else the least bit concerned about Arencibia's line vs RHP?

.278.441.719

92-93 - Monday, July 28 2008 @ 11:44 PM EDT (#189670) #

At first I thought those were great numbers and you were making a joke, until I realized you were starting it from OBP. So yes, he's going to have to improve vs. RHP if he is going to be an everyday catcher in the bigs. It's a positive though that he moved through the system so quickly and he still has time to adjust to RHP, he seems to be playing every day. The presence of Diaz and Jeroloman probably give a little breathing room for the Jays to give as much time as they think is necessary for Arencibia to develop.

If the Jays are completely out of it in September, it may be a good idea with the extra C on the roster to play Zaun every day (either at C or DH) to try and see if they can make him a Type B FA.

Ryan Day - Tuesday, July 29 2008 @ 12:33 AM EDT (#189671) #

I think "concern" is a bit premature - he's in AA a year after being drafted, so that's pretty impressive. He's obviously got some stuff to work on before he's ready for AAA, though.

Ryan Day - Tuesday, July 29 2008 @ 12:53 AM EDT (#189672) #

Arencibia also hit righties just fine at Dunedin: 356/384/615, vs. just 216/247/432 against lefties; for the year on the whole, he's got a 902 OPS against righties and 813 against lefties. So this may just be flukey sample-size stuff.

pooks137 - Tuesday, July 29 2008 @ 01:10 AM EDT (#189673) #

Although it would be nice to see guys like Zaun and Eckstein end up as Type B free agents, in the end, it may not even matter. The problem with getting extra picks by offering an eligible player arbitration is that there is a very substantiable risk that said player will actually accept your offer of arbitration. This very situation presented itself with Bengie Molina a few years ago where JP declined to offer him arbitration even though I believe he was a Type B free agent.

As we all know, Bengie ended up signing a deal with the Giants after the deadline, but JP was faced to choose between two scenarios: a) Bengie declines and the Jays receive an extra pick or b) Bengie accepts, wins between 4-5 million in arbitration to platoon with Gregg Zaun and the Jays get nothing.

I fear the same thing may present itself this offseason with Zaun and Eckstein. Is there another team out there who would offer Zaun another 2 yr/8 million dollar deal? I find that hard to believe at his age and the lack of buzz around him at the trade deadlline. If he can't get a multiyear deal, he might be better off with the ~4 million he will get in arb from the Jays.

Same with Eckstein, The entire reason that he fell into the Jays lap was because there was no other team that felt he could start for them at short. I know the Mets were interested at 2b, but can't remember years or numbers. There is again a real danger that his best offer would be the 1 yr/4 million arb award he would get from the Jays. I don't think that JP can risk offering arb to these guys to try to gain a couple of supplemental round picks at the risk of adding 5-10 million of dead weight to next year's payroll.

China fan - Tuesday, July 29 2008 @ 03:01 AM EDT (#189676) #

We need to start a new thread for Scott Richmond. This guy has an amazing life story, and he has the potential to be an emerging Canadian sports hero. (Of course he also has the potential to play a single game for the Jays and disappear forever, but let's be optimistic for the moment.) Did you know that Richmond worked for three years in the Vancouver shipyyards after he finished high school? In the shipyards?? And then somehow managed to make it to the major leagues? This has Hollywood movie all over it. Here is one story about him but I would love to see more. He certainly gives hope to every shipyards worker who dreams of baseball.....

China fan - Tuesday, July 29 2008 @ 03:11 AM EDT (#189677) #

Here is another story about Scott Richmond. He was a dock-worker for three years in Vancouver, and then he went to a wood-bat league in Moose Jaw. Then to a small U.S. college and eventually to the independent leagues, and finally Team Canada, where Rob Ducey spotted him. We spend all of our time speculating for years about the top-drafted prospects (and rightly so, I admit), and yet here comes a home-town hero (well, home-country hero) who was totally unknown to us a year ago, whose life story is as incredible as a Hollywood movie. The only sad part of the story is that he misses the Beijing Olympics, which would have been a highlight of his life as well. I never heard of him before this year, but I'm a fan of him now.

China fan - Tuesday, July 29 2008 @ 03:37 AM EDT (#189678) #

It's also interesting that Scott Richmond has never made our "Top 30 Prospects" list and has gone almost unnoticed by most Jay-watchers, although a few Bauxites such as Canuckiwi and Gerry have alertly spotted his development. Once again, the complete unpredictability of prospect development is fascinating to watch.

92-93 - Tuesday, July 29 2008 @ 04:00 AM EDT (#189679) #

Scott Richmond's last 14 starts :

9 @ AA : 47.2IP 55H 23ER 10BB 51K 9HR
5 @ AAA : 32IP 25H 9ER 6BB 31K 4HR

The HRs are a little troubling, but the 5:1 K:BB isn't. The total line was a 3.61ERA and 1.20WHIP. Looks like an attempt to ride a hot hand to me - does anyone have a good scouting report on Richmond?

Thomas - Tuesday, July 29 2008 @ 05:53 AM EDT (#189680) #

In terms of a scouting report, Canuckwiki had this to say about Richmond a couple of weeks ago:

I think that they should take a chance on bringing richmond up after Purcey instead of MacDonald. In the 3 games that he's pitched in Triple-A since he's been called up, his numbers are better than any of the other starters with the exception of maybe Purcey. Unlike MacDonald, he's got 4 pitches, and he attacks the strike zone consistently, with good off-speed stuff to complement his 93-95 fastball.

As for Richmond not ranking on our Top 30 prospects list, I don't believe he was the organization when the Box compiled their list. We do those lists right at the end of every season and Richmond was only signed this offseason by Rob Ducey, as those stories indicate. However, while he wasn't in the system at the time of those lists, he probably wouldn't have made the list (or would have been right at the bottom) had he been in the system at that time. A relatively unknown signing from the independent leagues wouldn't have dislodged many of the guys at the top of the list and all credit goes to Richmond for putting himself in the picture with a strong performance this year. I just hope Team Canada can overcome the loss.

TamRa - Tuesday, July 29 2008 @ 06:56 AM EDT (#189681) #

Nothing in writing but Wilner said the minor league people raved about Richmond.

Gerry - Tuesday, July 29 2008 @ 08:51 AM EDT (#189686) #

This is Richmond's first year in the Jay's system so he never was eligible for our top 30 list. Also, I was told a month ago that Richmond was working on a change-up and that would be important for his success. On Wednesday hopefully we will see a workable change-up.

China fan - Tuesday, July 29 2008 @ 09:26 AM EDT (#189696) #

Even if Richmond was technically ineligible for our Top 30 list, you're missing my larger point, which is: Richmond never got as much attention as 20 or 30 other prospects in the Jays system, even this season. Sometimes we are obsessed with a prospect's ranking, his draft round, or even his age (in relation to his minor-league level). We focus on the Ricky Romeros and the Russ Adamses, while ignoring those who don't fit the normal rules for prospects. But those conventional rules about age and draft ranking -- while usually useful -- can sometimes underestimate a player. Richmond is one example -- Joe Inglett is another example. Inglett was never a top draft choice, he was "old" for his minor-league levels -- yet he constantly put up strong numbers in the minors and now he seems like a solid major-leaguer.

Mike Green - Tuesday, July 29 2008 @ 10:00 AM EDT (#189698) #

It is a mistake to put too much weight on age and level for pitchers. There have been minor league pitchers who have emerged in their late 20s to have significant major league careers. Lee Gronkiewicz was rated highly despite his age.

It has been clear for several years that Inglett would be a useful utility player for some club. All that has happened this year is that he has had a chance to play because of Hill's unfortunate injury. For position players, age, level and performance are the three items that I look at first.

28 July 2008: What You Want, Baby I Got It | 48 comments | Create New Account

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