Batter's Box Interactive Magazine

Mike Green - Friday, September 11 2009 @ 03:33 PM EDT (#206050) #

No wonder McDonald looks like he's lost a step or three, what with his pants sliding down lower than a teenager's.

Ducey - Saturday, September 12 2009 @ 10:13 AM EDT (#206053) #

Looks like he stole MC Hammer's pants...too bad his approach at the plate is: "can't touch this"

brent - Saturday, September 12 2009 @ 10:08 PM EDT (#206060) #

The Jays can't even get clutch losses when they need them to secure a better draft position.

greenfrog - Sunday, September 13 2009 @ 01:02 PM EDT (#206064) #

Rotoworld is reporting (via Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun, via an NL scout, via a Toronto scout--that's a lot of broken telephone) that the Red Sox offered the Jays Daniel Bard, Michael Bowden, Clay Buchholz, Felix Doubront, Nick Hagadone and Justin Masterson for Doc.

Not sure what to make of that report. It sounds just plausible enough to be true (no Westmoreland, no Casey Kelly), but who knows...

Jim - Sunday, September 13 2009 @ 01:07 PM EDT (#206065) #

Yeah here is the link from MLB Trade Rumors:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/09/red-sox-offered-6-pitchers-for-halladay.html

Chuck - Sunday, September 13 2009 @ 01:32 PM EDT (#206066) #

Since August 1:

Halladay: 8 GS, 60 IP, 3.90 ERA
Buchholz*: 9 GS, 55 IP, 3.60 ERA
Cliff Lee**: 8 GS, 55 IP, 3.11 ERA

* 6 innings into today's start against TB
** since July 31 (first start as a Phillie)

lexomatic - Sunday, September 13 2009 @ 02:22 PM EDT (#206068) #

great.. but it`s not like pitching has been a problem. maybe this actualyl was offered at the time.. maybe not. but if nobody was willing ot budge on any position players i wouldn`t have wanted that headache of trying to create space and trading them off for bats etc.

greenfrog - Sunday, September 13 2009 @ 02:52 PM EDT (#206069) #

That trade wouldn't have transformed the Jays into contenders, but it would have given them a solid (and inexpensive) pitching staff for years to come, thereby freeing up some cash to allow the team to spend on some offense.

A rotation of Marcum, Romero, Buchholz, Masterson and Cecil (with Litsch, Rzep, Stewart, Mills, Bowden and Dubront waiting in the wings) and a bullpen led by Frasor, Downs and Bard looks very impressive to me.

Something about the report seems off, though. Why would Boston trade away six well-regarded young pitchers for Doc? It seems to me that Theo would want to include a couple of positional players instead of pitchers (especially since the former is what Toronto needs most). I don't know--I would be surprised if this rumour corresponds to what Boston offered. I could see Boston offering a package of Buchholz, Masterson and Bowden (maybe with one of Dubront or Hagadone)--something like that.

Jim - Sunday, September 13 2009 @ 04:07 PM EDT (#206070) #

If that offer was legitimate you have to take it. You take the most talent you can get and worry about how you deal with it later.

Thomas - Sunday, September 13 2009 @ 04:47 PM EDT (#206071) #

I hope that rumour isn't true. If so, not accepting the offer was a mistake.

Ozzieball - Sunday, September 13 2009 @ 06:03 PM EDT (#206073) #

That trade looks terrible for the Jays. Why would they trade Doc for one guaranteed starter, one probably good relief pitcher, and then a whole whack of low-end starters/long relievers. It's as if the the Red Sox thought they could keep on tacking one more marginal prospect at the end and maybe this time it would be the difference.

"Buchholz, Bard, and NICK HAGADONE. What, is that not enough for you? How about we throw in a shiny new FELIX DOUBRONT!!!!. Still want more?!?! Well, you're lucky I'm in a good mood because..."
It's as if Vince Offer put the trade offer together.

TamRa - Sunday, September 13 2009 @ 07:13 PM EDT (#206075) #

Epstien flatly denied it. It's not true, and Bob Elliot is turning into Marty York IMHO.

Waveburner - Sunday, September 13 2009 @ 08:18 PM EDT (#206076) #

Not meaning to comment on the validity of the rumour one way or the other. But has any GM in the recent history of sport (ANY sport), when confronted with a rumour of a trade that never occured, actually come out and verified said non-trade as something that was on the table? I mean chances are the rumour is false, but I don't see how any semi-intelligent human being would take the word of one of the GM's involved. It's pretty much in their best interest to deny it 100% of the time.

Jim - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 07:43 AM EDT (#206080) #

It's certainly in Epstein's best interest because that offer makes him look foolish. There is almost no possible way it's true.

jmoney - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 09:25 AM EDT (#206082) #

Since August 1:

Halladay: 8 GS, 60 IP, 3.90 ERA
Buchholz*: 9 GS, 55 IP, 3.60 ERA
Cliff Lee**: 8 GS, 55 IP, 3.11 ERA

Yes but Roy didn't get the pleasure of starting against the awful offense that is the Bluejays three times. Lee is a good pitcher if people have conned themselves into believing they got the better arm in Philly then more power to them.

Matthew E - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 09:54 AM EDT (#206083) #

Trivia question:

There are 30 major-league teams. Each one has, of course, a pitcher who leads the franchise in career saves. (Not necessarily an active pitcher.) For the Blue Jays, this pitcher is Tom Henke. But one of the other 29 career saves leaders has also pitched for the Blue Jays (and another one was a product of the Jays' minor-league system; I don't mean him). Who?

Mike Green - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 10:15 AM EDT (#206084) #

My first guess was Gary Lavelle, but Nen had more.

Forkball - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 10:18 AM EDT (#206085) #

Red Sox offered the Jays Daniel Bard, Michael Bowden, Clay Buchholz, Felix Doubront, Nick Hagadone and Justin Masterson for Doc.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Sox offered those players for Halladay...... just not all in the same offer. That's just beyond silly. The Sox hang onto prospects like crazy; they're not going to end up moving 6 of them.

That the source is an NL scout ought to tell you that you shouldn't give it much credence. My guess is that this was probably a former Jays scout who was let go by JP (which is why he's an Elliot source), and he's looking to stir the anti-JP pot along with Elliot.

There's a lot of things JP does (or doesn't do) to get worked up about. This isn't one of those.

Ducey - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 10:56 AM EDT (#206086) #

Randy Myers?

Gerry - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 11:00 AM EDT (#206087) #

Brandon Lyon?

Matthew E - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 11:21 AM EDT (#206088) #

Not Lavelle, not Myers, not Lyon.

Chuck - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 11:23 AM EDT (#206089) #

Plesac?

Mike Green - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 11:58 AM EDT (#206090) #

Plesac is remembered fondly by at least one Bauxite.

Matthew E - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 12:16 PM EDT (#206091) #

Plesac it is, the career saves leader for the Brewers. (The guy who had been a Jays' minor leaguer is Jose Mesa, who's the Indians' career saves leader.)

TamRa - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 01:08 PM EDT (#206092) #

but I don't see how any semi-intelligent human being would take the word of one of the GM's involved. It's pretty much in their best interest to deny it 100% of the time.

Both Sabean and JP confirmed most of the reported details of the Lincicum/Rios discussion, differing only on self-serving periphrials.

Just for one obvious example.

Thomas - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 01:58 PM EDT (#206097) #

Plesac is remembered fondly by at least one Bauxite.

Thanks for noticing, Mike. That may be the best $15 I spend per year.

If I had been checking the Box more often I would have been all over that trivia question. Plesac's my all-time favourite player, as you may have guessed.

Matthew E - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 02:58 PM EDT (#206099) #

Now name the three Jays who have led the team in saves in two nonconsecutive seasons.

MatO - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 03:05 PM EDT (#206100) #

BJ Ryan for sure, I'm guessing Escobar and ???

Matthew E - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 03:46 PM EDT (#206101) #

Both of those are correct. I admit that I'm not exactly playing fair with the third one. It's not a trick question or anything, but there's a good argument that I shouldn't be counting him as qualifying for this list.

Mike Green - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 04:33 PM EDT (#206103) #

In progress, right?

James W - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 05:03 PM EDT (#206104) #

Frasor's 10 leads the current team, and he lead in 2004. The only other "playing funny" possibility would be a tie one year.

Richard S.S. - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 06:37 PM EDT (#206105) #

Just a change of pace here, sorry about that.

Cincinnati drafted Zachary Stewart, 3rd round, in 2008. He is pitching AAA at the time of his trade, well deserving of the promotion. Cincinnati drafted Josh Roenicke, 30th round, in 2007 (the other pitcher in the trade). He pitches in both AAA and the Show in both 2008 and 2009, and results overall aren't that bad. I can't find if he pitched at all in 2007 after being drafted. No record in GCL, A-, A, A+ or higher, Arizona Fall League or Hawaii Winter League. This implies Cincinnati rushes some of their pitchers, from the draft to AAA the next year. How common is this? Help me out if you can.

Matthew E - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 06:48 PM EDT (#206106) #

It was Frasor I had in mind. I like his chances to still be leading the team at the end of the year.

brent - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 09:20 PM EDT (#206107) #

As much as everyone is unhappy about the season, the Jays are still only the 10 worst team in baseball (only by the standings and in the AL East). It is really easy to forget how crappy some teams are (especially in the NL). A balanced schedule would really go a long way to helping out the Jays a little.

Magpie - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 10:24 PM EDT (#206109) #

I like [Frasor's] chances to still be leading the team at the end of the year.

After tonight, I like his chances to be pitching the 8th inning and setting up Scott Downs next time.

Gerry - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 11:00 PM EDT (#206110) #

Tonight was Frasor's fifth appearance in the last seven days.....overused anyone?

Magpie - Monday, September 14 2009 @ 11:26 PM EDT (#206111) #

overused anyone?

Frasor didn't pitch yesterday... he threw just 11 pitches on Saturday.... just 8 pitches on Friday....

So... not really. What the hell. Aubrey Huff ain't chopped liver.

Purcey's only started six games, he hasn't been very good, but the bullpen's already cost him two wins.

Mike Green - Tuesday, September 15 2009 @ 09:09 AM EDT (#206112) #

I look at Purcey, and I see a pitcher who in 5 years will probably (maybe 75-80%) be out of baseball, but who still has a chance to be good and consistent. The man has walked 51 and struck out 88 in 96 major league innings. That's obviously not great, but many pitchers with Purcey's stuff have found their control in their late 20s or early 30s.

Here's the question. For a team that realistically isn't likely to compete over the next few years and can afford to ride out growing pains, is there any merit in attempting to negotiate some kind of long-term arrangement with him on favourable terms and is there any likelihood that he'd agree? Six years at $1 million? Three years at 600K with club options at 1.5-2.5M for three years as in the Hill contract? One of the advantages of not being realistically able to compete immediately is that a club can afford to get creative with young pitchers.

Magpie - Tuesday, September 15 2009 @ 10:12 AM EDT (#206113) #

is there any merit in attempting to negotiate some kind of long-term arrangement with him on favourable terms and is there any likelihood that he'd agree? Six years at $1 million? Three years at 600K with club options at 1.5-2.5M....

Well, I suppose the point of your suggestion is to keep his costs down for the three seasons when he would be eligible for arbitration, but not for free agency. In Purcey's case, that's probably 2013-2015. At the end of that period, he'll be 33 years old. If Purcey explodes on the league in 2010 or 2011, I suppose he could be a Super-Two going into 2012 and could start to receive larger rewards from the arbitrator than the 1.5-2.5 million you're thinking...

Meh. If he does actually explode on the league, I'll find some way to cope with the inconvenience...

Mike Green - Tuesday, September 15 2009 @ 10:36 AM EDT (#206114) #

You may be right. Maybe the approach is better suited to someone like Cecil, Romero or Zep. The problem is that I think the odds of Romero being a 180 IP, 110 ERA+ pitcher in 5 years or little different from Purcey's and the cost of signing him on would be much higher.

Mike Green - Tuesday, September 15 2009 @ 10:38 AM EDT (#206115) #

Correction.

The problem is that I think the odds of Romero being a 180 IP, 110 ERA+ pitcher in 5 years or so is little different from Purcey's and the cost of signing him on would be much higher.

MatO - Tuesday, September 15 2009 @ 11:04 AM EDT (#206118) #

Here's an interview with Rogers CEO Nadir Mohamed on the Blue Jays.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/baseball/whats-the-plan-blue-jays/article1287766/

Mike Green - Tuesday, September 15 2009 @ 11:19 AM EDT (#206119) #

No offence, but "Nadir" might be an unfortunate name for someone involved with the Jays. Let's nickname him Apex or Summit instead.

The interview isn't very interesting in that it gives no clues how the organization sees the steps from nadir to apex.

China fan - Tuesday, September 15 2009 @ 11:43 AM EDT (#206120) #

Mike, why such a negative view of Romero? Ranking him as "no better than Purcey" -- in the long run -- seems a bit harsh. Romero has had a pretty solid rookie campaign, even if he's tailed off a bit at the end, hasn't he? He's tied for 2nd for wins among AL rookie pitchers, despite losing part of the season to injury, and his ERA is 23rd in the entire league. He's also within 27 innings of the 180 innings that you see as a target. And his pedigree is pretty good, even if some of his minor-league numbers weren't that great. I'm sure you must have reasons for your pessimism, so I'd like to hear them.

Mike Green - Tuesday, September 15 2009 @ 02:36 PM EDT (#206123) #

It's not really a negative review of Romero. I think that he's got a very good chance to better than Purcey over the next 2 years. In the long run, however, Romero's chances of being very good are quite limited, in light of his injury history and minor league record. Maybe, he's at 30-35 per cent instead of Purcey's 20-25 per cent.

greenfrog - Tuesday, September 15 2009 @ 08:22 PM EDT (#206129) #

My guess is that Blair reprinted all those quotes simply to show how little Nadir knows about the Jays (calling Ricciardi a "great leader," etc.). He really comes across as having no clue about baseball. Normally Blair adds a fair bit of acerbic commentary, but in this case there was apparently no need. Basically, the article is a string of platitudinous quotations that you would expect to find in an MBA brochure.

Ryan Day - Tuesday, September 15 2009 @ 11:29 PM EDT (#206134) #

How can the Yankees spend so much money and still end up with Sergio "Career 78 ERA+" Mitre starting 9 games?

westcoast dude - Wednesday, September 16 2009 @ 01:30 AM EDT (#206137) #

Bautista and Barajas combining to kill whatshisname at home plate: priceless. Snider's two bombs into the second deck: awesome. Encarnacion with the stick: third base is good to go. Jesse is the Man. As of tonight, it has been a Great Season.

Helpmates - Wednesday, September 16 2009 @ 10:52 AM EDT (#206150) #

well said, greenfrog.