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And I know you won't let me down, 'cause I'm already standing on the ground.

Jose Quintana (3-2, 3.95) will roll for the White Sox against Chien-Ming Wang (NR), who hopes his Blue Jays debut will be a feel good story, in another 8:10 pm Eastern start at the Cell. Wang will be wearing #67, becoming the first player in franchise history to wear those digits. Now you know!

Tonight's @BlueJays lineup: Cabrera-LF Bautista-RF Encarnacion-DH DeRosa-3B Davis-CF Lind-1B Arencibia-C Izturis-2B Kawasaki-SS
Game Thread 6/11 @ Chicago White Sox | 74 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Richard S.S. - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 04:10 PM EDT (#273907) #
Let's hope the offense has as big game as possible because no one has an idea of how well Wang will pitch.
greenfrog - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 04:53 PM EDT (#273912) #
Alternatively:

"Let's hope the offense has as big a game as possible because no one has any idea of how well (insert name of starting pitcher) will pitch."
Magpie - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 04:55 PM EDT (#273913) #
Wang will be wearing #67

Because he's the 67th different guy to pitch for the 2013 Blue Jays?
John Northey - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 05:14 PM EDT (#273914) #
Well, maybe not #67 but he will be the 29th.  Last year saw 34 (including Mathis), 30 in 2011, 24 in 2010, 24 in 2009, 19 in 2008.  Clearly AA is determined to use as many pitchers as possible. 

2nd place for most pitchers used is 21 for Baltimore/St Louis/Angels.  The fewest is the Royals at 14 (keep expecting the Jays to use that many in one game).
2012: Jays 'won' with 34, #2 was 30 for the Cubs and Padres
2011: Jays won with 30, #2 was Colorado with 29
2010: Florida #1 with 31.
Pre-2010: highest I saw was 37 for the Padres in 2002.  I checked back to 1993.  #2 since 1993 goes to the Jays 34 last year.  The Padres in 2002 used 15 starters,and 33 relievers (just 4 were exclusively starters).  10 guys had less than 9 IP, just 3 cracked 100 (2 over 200). 

FYI: If AA is reading - that is NOT a challenge.
John Northey - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 05:38 PM EDT (#273915) #
Say, who would be likely to be called up this year and could the Jays get to 38 and set the record?  9 more needed.

Perez obviously in a month, plus Drabek & Hutchinson in September.  That's 3.  Marcus Walden has done OK in AA as a starter, could get an emergency start or two.  Marcus Stroman has been viewed as possible, as has John StilsonJoel Carreno is still doing well and has probably earned a call up (double digit K/9, BB/9 sub 3 in AA and AAA, ERA sub 2 at both levels).  Tommy  Hottovy has been fairly good as a LHR.  So there are 5 more.  That gets us to 8 possible in-house options (assuming others who aren't doing so well are left down).  Might need another emergency guy or two from other organizations to make it. 

It won't be easy, but this is one record I can see AA going for...sadly enough.  At least it keeps the people who put names and numbers on uniforms busy.
scottt - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 06:45 PM EDT (#273916) #
I have a pretty good idea of how well Wang will pitch. 0 or 1 BB, less than 3 K, plenty of ground balls...

WHIP and runs are harder to predict. Assuming the defense sucks, 4 or 5 runs in 6 innings or less...
Mike Green - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 07:56 PM EDT (#273917) #
Interesting batting order.  DeRosa bats 4th at third base and Rajai Davis bats 5th in centerfield.   Kawasaki and Izturis play the middle infield. Lind at 1st and Encarnacion DHing.  It may very well be that Gibbons has correctly identified the best infield defence combination available to him for Wang.  Not that it is actually good, of course.
Magpie - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 08:30 PM EDT (#273918) #
"That was his 9th hit and 14th double of the season..."

I know what Buck meant, but it sure sounded weird.
Thomas - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 08:40 PM EDT (#273920) #
Adam Lind has a 1.019 OPS against left-handed pitching. JP Arencibia has a .529 OPS against left-handed pitching. And that's before Lind hit a double today and Arencibia struck out in their first at-bats of the game.

Of course, Lind has amassed that total in 18 at-bats. I'm not convinced it would last over an extended trial, but, as subjective as it is, Lind has looked like a different hitter against lefties this year.
Magpie - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 08:45 PM EDT (#273921) #
Someone tell Adam Dunn that J.P. Ricciardi is gone. Gone! Go torment someone else.
Mike Green - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 08:48 PM EDT (#273922) #
Nice defensive play by Arencibia, both the stop and particularly the throw.
Magpie - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 08:53 PM EDT (#273923) #
JP Arencibia has a .529 OPS against left-handed pitching.

You think that's bad? He's got a .385 OPS away from the Rogers Centre. That's right - .137/.170/.216, which beggars all description. Six NL teams (Chicago, LA, Atlanta, Milwauke, Washington, Philadelphia) get more offense from their pitchers than what Arencibia does on the road.
CeeBee - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 09:12 PM EDT (#273924) #
I guess saying he can't hit is an understatement?
Mike Green - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 09:14 PM EDT (#273925) #
He certainly swings. 
Mike Green - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 09:15 PM EDT (#273926) #
The defence tonight has actually been almost crisp.  Frightening.
Mike Forbes - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 09:18 PM EDT (#273927) #
Someone please tell Arencibia that he can't throw from his knees.
BlueJayWay - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 09:37 PM EDT (#273930) #
Please get Arencibia off the team.  Terrible.  Also, hang everyone who is wearing his jersey or shirt.  Bugs the hell out of me.
Mike Green - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#273933) #
And there was the Achilles' heel of the defence.  Right between Cabrera and Davis.  How Kawasaki is the man for that ball is beyond me...
Magpie - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#273934) #
If Wang is allowed to face Dunn...
Magpie - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 09:46 PM EDT (#273935) #
... all will be well. Of course.
Chuck - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 09:54 PM EDT (#273936) #
So is it a given that Wang will be DFA'd later tonight?
Hodgie - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 09:54 PM EDT (#273937) #
Who is this #26 and what has he done with the real Adam Lind? Seriously, this could be the start of a beautiful friendship (again).
John Northey - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 09:54 PM EDT (#273938) #
Magpie - the more you try to predict the worse you will look.  Trust me :)  Heck, JPA just took another walk - more proof baseball is a funny game.

With Wang at 72 pitches after 5 do you leave him in despite the 5 runs allowed?  I figure you might as well. 

Magpie - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 09:58 PM EDT (#273940) #
Reverse jinx!

Did you notice that Arencibia getting a walk immediately prompts a visit to the mound?
TamRa - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 10:05 PM EDT (#273941) #
anyone thrown this log on the fire yet?

http://mopupduty.com/statistically-speaking-j-p-arencibia-one-of-the-best-framing-catchers-in-mlb-061113/

John Northey - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 10:23 PM EDT (#273942) #
I saw that too but think that falls under the old rule that defensive stats need time to 'count'.  Amazing how many strikes were called balls with him behind the plate, but more balls called strikes thus the good rating.  Seems he totally confuses umpires.
Magpie - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 10:27 PM EDT (#273943) #
There are also playing time issues - only one catcher in the majors has caught more innings, and Arencibia has probably been involved in almost as many at bats as Wieters anyway. Arencibia's stolen more strikes than Chris Stewart? I hope so, he's caught almost twice as many innings. Still, this is the area of his game that one would expect to see some improvement.
Eephus - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 10:37 PM EDT (#273944) #
That's it, I've had enough. I can't take this anymore. You win Baseball Gods, you win.

CeeBee - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 10:38 PM EDT (#273945) #
curveball in the dirt.... curveball in the dirt..... curveball in the dirt..... This seems like a bad dream
BlueJayWay - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 10:39 PM EDT (#273946) #
Arencibia....terrible...this is a recording....
Magpie - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 10:40 PM EDT (#273947) #
Arencibia batted three times tonight with a runner on third and less than two outs and struck out three times.
Eephus - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 10:43 PM EDT (#273948) #
J.P Arencibia must be one of the dumbest major league hitters I've ever seen. Really. A six year old peewee player probably doesn't fall for that pitch at the ankles a SECOND time, never mind a third. Unbelievable.
BlueJayWay - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 10:43 PM EDT (#273950) #
*shrug*
Magpie - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 10:48 PM EDT (#273951) #
Is Rasmus in the building tonight?
Chuck - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 10:49 PM EDT (#273952) #
Maybe Gibbons is watching the basketball game.
JB21 - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 10:50 PM EDT (#273953) #
If so, he must like what he sees.
JB21 - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 10:51 PM EDT (#273954) #
JOEY!!
Eephus - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 10:52 PM EDT (#273955) #
This just in: Jose Bautista is pretty awesome. The anti-Arencibia, if you will.
Chuck - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 10:53 PM EDT (#273956) #
Here's Rasmus. The Grand Plan is revealed.
Magpie - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 10:55 PM EDT (#273957) #
Maybe Gibbons is watching the basketball game.

I am! (Well, I got the baseball going on the computer with the Rogers Anyplace, and the hoops on the TV.)

Enjoying the basketball much more.
Chuck - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 10:55 PM EDT (#273958) #
The basketball game is a blowout. May as well go 17 innings.
JB21 - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 11:01 PM EDT (#273959) #
Lebron James just woke up, we MIGHT have a game in the 4th. (BIG MIGHT)
Magpie - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 11:06 PM EDT (#273960) #
I know I've likened Arencibia to Rod Barajas several times.

Sorry, Rod.

Yup, LeBron scored about 8 points in 30 seconds. The Spurs shrugged, and just pushed the lead back up to 21.
Richard S.S. - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 11:06 PM EDT (#273961) #
Some needs to sit down the entire offense and ask "1st and 3rd with no one out, that the eff are you thinking about?"
JB21 - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 11:07 PM EDT (#273962) #
Gary Neal needs to stop.
Magpie - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 11:12 PM EDT (#273963) #
Holy crap. What the Spurs are doing to the Heat is just brutal. Lead up to 29...
Eephus - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 11:13 PM EDT (#273964) #
Hey, Arencibia finally managed to get the runner home from third with less than two outs!

JB21 - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 11:14 PM EDT (#273965) #
And then he hits a fly ball to the OF... comical.

Danny Green getting in the Gary Neal action.
John Northey - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 11:18 PM EDT (#273966) #
Wow.  Nice to see there are worse options than JPA behind the plate.  Flowers is just having a brutal game. Nice alert play by Izturis on knocking the ball out and tagging the plate before the pitcher can tag him.

Very, very fun game to watch.  Glad it was the free one from MLB.tv

BlueJayWay - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 11:19 PM EDT (#273968) #
Flowers having almost an Arencibia-esque game here.
Magpie - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 11:19 PM EDT (#273969) #
We have a T-Mac sighting!
Magpie - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 11:27 PM EDT (#273970) #
Putting the tying run on so you can pitch to Adam Dunn? This may not end well, Casey.
John Northey - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 11:32 PM EDT (#273971) #
Like I said - entertaining game.  So, after this do you give Wang another start?  I would.  7+ IP and just one bad inning.  Kept the pitch count low and ate innings - major improvement from many others used.  Figure he is worth giving a few starts to unless he starts getting really hammered ala most other starters.
Eephus - Tuesday, June 11 2013 @ 11:47 PM EDT (#273972) #
Casey Janssen is just such a pleasure to watch. He never appears especially rattled because he always looks so nervous anyway. The rocking back and forth, the fidgeting of the glove, the deep breaths just before he looks in for the catcher's sign, and the look on his face of "oh boy, this is tough." Casey is so easy to root for because he's been so good and because he appears so human while doing it.

Great game, great win. 
ayjackson - Wednesday, June 12 2013 @ 12:13 AM EDT (#273974) #
I worry for Casey.  The 2mph lost off his fastball this year and careful use by Gibbons makes me think his shoulder is a timebomb.
CeeBee - Wednesday, June 12 2013 @ 09:15 AM EDT (#273979) #
I think his shoulder has been a time bomb for a while now.... Would any of you trade him if the right offer came along? I think I would.
uglyone - Wednesday, June 12 2013 @ 09:17 AM EDT (#273980) #
I really don't get all the jpa hate. he's been a marginally below average catcher so far in his career, and costs peanuts.
92-93 - Wednesday, June 12 2013 @ 09:34 AM EDT (#273981) #
He has a .237 OBP and has batted 3rd, 4th, or 5th in 2/3 of his starts.
Hodgie - Wednesday, June 12 2013 @ 10:13 AM EDT (#273982) #
Going to preface this post by saying I fully understand the frustration that emanates from the Box these days as it mirrors my own. Given the expectations coming into the season, I can't remember being more disappointed in any of the previous 30 seasons I have followed the team.

That said, I am wondering what ever happened to the ground rules of the The Batters Box, that code that was closely adhered to when I first started frequenting the site years ago? Speaking for myself, it has become painful watching contributors insult players and management, and in cases like Arencibia, continually do it over, and over, and over, and well, you get the point. I don't see how stating X player is dumb or management is incompetent furthers any discussion or is appropriate for this site.

That said, I will acknowledge this could just very well be my issue alone, in which case I will kindly ask you to turn down that loud rock and roll music and get off my lawn.
China fan - Wednesday, June 12 2013 @ 10:20 AM EDT (#273983) #
I agree with Hodgie, although I also think "codes" should be aspirational and flexible, rather than rigidly applied.

Get off my lawn too.
Paul D - Wednesday, June 12 2013 @ 10:45 AM EDT (#273985) #
That's a fair point Hodgie. On the other hand, game threads have always been a bit more fluid than other posts.
Ryan Day - Wednesday, June 12 2013 @ 10:57 AM EDT (#273987) #
And to think that last year many, of us probably would have traded Lind & Cecil for a AA-reliever.
Beyonder - Wednesday, June 12 2013 @ 11:42 AM EDT (#273989) #
Very true Ryan -- except "many" could likely be replaced with "almost all". To tie in with Hodgie's point, there's probably a lesson in humility to be gleaned from the Lind/Cecil/Encarnacion case studies next time we are inclined to describe managment as incompetent. IMO, this regime's greatest strength has been its resolve to stick to its guns in the face of pressure from mounting countervailing evidence. It's instincts have proven correct on more than a few occasions.
Magpie - Wednesday, June 12 2013 @ 11:50 AM EDT (#273990) #
this regime's greatest strength

Stop right there. Until this regime fields a team actually that manages to win... oh, how about 86 games in a season, let's not set the bar too high - until then, this regime has no demonstrated strengths. None. Just a lot of promise, promise which might amount to something in the end or might just turn out to be a lot of hot air.
Chuck - Wednesday, June 12 2013 @ 11:53 AM EDT (#273991) #
And to think that last year many, of us probably would have traded Lind & Cecil for a AA-reliever.

I'm not sure you could have gotten a AA-reliever for those two after last year. Who would have willingly taken on Lind's salary?
uglyone - Wednesday, June 12 2013 @ 12:21 PM EDT (#273993) #
RP Trades Updates:

RP B.Lincoln (28): 37gms, 50.1ip, 8.4k/9, 4.1bb/9, 1.6hr/9, .275babip, 1.41whip, 5.01era, 5.09fip, 4.46xfip, 3.86siera
LF T.Snider (25): 109gms, 332pa, 3hr, 38rbi, 3/5sb, 9.0bb%, 24.1k%, .317babip, .241avg/.310/.341/.651, .289woba, 82wRC+

RP S.Delabar (29): 55gms, 62.1ip, 12.1k/9, 4.9bb/9, 0.6hr/9, .297babip, 1.30whip, 2.60era, 2.95fip, 3.71xfip, 3.07siera
LF E.Thames (26): 130pa, 6hr, 14rbi, 1/1sb, 4.6bb%, 36.2k%, .300babip, .220/.256/.439/.695, .297woba, 92wRC+

RP S.Santos (29): 11gms, 9.3ip, 9.6k/9, 4.8bb/9, 1.9hr/9, .292babip, 1.50whip, 5.79era, 5.33fip, 4.09xfip, 3.72siera
SP N.Molina (24): AA - 138.0ip, 6.4k/9, 2.0bb/9, 0.5hr/9, .366babip, 1.50whip, 4.44era, 3.25fip (AAA - 4.0ip, 9.0k/9, 2.3bb/9, 4.5hr/9, .500babip, 2.50whip, 13.50era, 8.45fip)
Magpie - Wednesday, June 12 2013 @ 12:32 PM EDT (#273994) #
Young Travis has been fighting for playing time, mainly with Jose Tabata. Tabata is six months younger and the Pirates have considerably more invested in him, but Snider lucked into a huge opportunity last month when Tabata went down with an oblique injury. But since Tabata went out, Snider has hit .173/.246/.231, and the Pirates actually had their veteran catcher make his first career start in right field last week.

This can't go on much longer. At this point, the only thing saving Snider's butt is the fact that he's a LH bat on a team with a very heavy RH slant. But the Pirates think they're playing for something right now. They can't mess around.
uglyone - Wednesday, June 12 2013 @ 12:43 PM EDT (#273995) #
The only reason Snider is in the bigs is because he's out of options....and even that won't keep him up much longer.
Ryan Day - Wednesday, June 12 2013 @ 12:59 PM EDT (#273997) #
It's too early to be conclusive, but the Snider-Lincoln trade looks pretty inconsequential. I think Lincoln could be a solid contributor in the pen if there was room for him, but still don't think I'd get too excited about him.

On a performance level, Santos-Molina also looks like a wash, but at least Chicago isn't paying Molina any money to not contribute.

I was a big Thames fan, but his window is closing pretty fast now. And while I'm afraid Delabar could wake up some day and be completely unable to find the strike zone ever again, at the moment he's one of my favourite Jays pitchers. It's been a long time since the Jays have had a reliever who could come in and just blow away opposing hitters like this.
Mike Green - Wednesday, June 12 2013 @ 01:55 PM EDT (#274002) #
Arencibia has an extreme strength, power, and a number of weaknesses.  On balance, he has performed at the level of an effective role player, both before this season and this year.   The league does appear to have cottoned on to the fact that he can be counted on to chase a goodly percentage of pitches outside the zone (almost 40% this year), and in particular a goodly percentage of pitches way outside the zone. 

For myself, I think that his ideal role is 2 games per week.  Someone else might have the view that it is 3 or 4 games a week.  Whatever else you think, none of this really reflects too much on him.  I am pretty sure that he is giving his all, and that is really you can ask of him.  My complaint has been that the club held on much too long to the notion that he was a capable everyday catcher.

As for management's "incompetence", I wouldn't put it that way.  The organization appears to have some fixed ideas that are standing in the way of success of the club- the preference for tools (Arencibia's power would be an example) over skills,  and a fixation on the importance of pitching and in particular on relief pitching. 

On a positive note, I am delighted that Cecil has come so far, and pleased that Gibbons sent him out for the ninth yesterday.  CF has mentioned a concern with Cecil's innings load (34 so far).  For me, it's more about appearances.  I am not concerned if Cecil ends up with 65 appearances and 95 innings, but 77 appearances and 100 innings (aka the Duane Ward pattern) may be too much.  High leverage, longer and less often works for me. He seems to plenty effective against RHB this year.  As Delabar is pretty much the same, you can use them in alternating games to keep the appearance load manageable. 

92-93 - Wednesday, June 12 2013 @ 02:12 PM EDT (#274004) #
"To tie in with Hodgie's point, there's probably a lesson in humility to be gleaned from the Lind/Cecil/Encarnacion case studies next time we are inclined to describe managment as incompetent. IMO, this regime's greatest strength has been its resolve to stick to its guns in the face of pressure from mounting countervailing evidence. It's instincts have proven correct on more than a few occasions."

I don't understand this. Management didn't stick to their guns at all with Lind & Encarnacion - they were DFAd and any team could have had them. The Jays lucked into their success because of both players having contracts that were too large for their value. It's a similar scenario with Romero - if he comes back in 2014 and goes 15-11 with a 4.25 ERA, the team wasn't patient with him. They will have just gotten lucky that no other team was willing to take on the financial commitment, which tends not to be a great sign about a player's future.

It's tough for me to label this regime as "patient" based on the information at hand.
Dave Till - Wednesday, June 12 2013 @ 02:40 PM EDT (#274008) #
Stop right there. Until this regime fields a team actually that manages to win... oh, how about 86 games in a season, let's not set the bar too high - until then, this regime has no demonstrated strengths. None. Just a lot of promise, promise which might amount to something in the end or might just turn out to be a lot of hot air.

Until this regime fields a team that isn't absolutely blasted apart by injuries, I'm not going to judge it one way or another. Unless you want to blame AA for Jose Reyes's wayward slide or the ball that conked J.A. Happ in the noggin, I tend to conclude that the Baseball Gods are just choosing to be cruel to the Jays for reasons that are beyond our fathoming. (Unless the Jays' coaching or training staff are not doing their jobs properly, but I have no way to know that.)

I don't understand this. Management didn't stick to their guns at all with Lind & Encarnacion - they were DFAd and any team could have had them. The Jays lucked into their success because of both players having contracts that were too large for their value.

Any team could have had them... and no team wanted them. I guess this just shows that, in baseball, you never know: the difference in ability between a star player and a minor leaguer is the difference between somebody in the 99.9th percentile and somebody in the 99th percentile.
92-93 - Wednesday, June 12 2013 @ 02:56 PM EDT (#274010) #
"I tend to conclude that the Baseball Gods are just choosing to be cruel to the Jays for reasons that are beyond our fathoming."

The injury excuse is so tiresome. Jose Reyes hit the DL in 3 straight seasons before 2012. Josh Johnson has had one season where he took the ball every 5 days and pitched. Brett Lawrie is very clearly injury prone due to the intensity he plays each pitch with. Brandon Morrow has never made it through a season. Nobody is blaming AA for the injuries, but the only freak injury here belongs to JA Happ, the guy who wasn't even supposed to make the rotation this year. Injuries should not be used as an excuse as to why this team played so poorly out of the gate.
Magpie - Wednesday, June 12 2013 @ 05:35 PM EDT (#274022) #
The injury excuse is so tiresome.

Oh yes. Try to tell Brian Cashman that this team has been hard done by.
Game Thread 6/11 @ Chicago White Sox | 74 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.