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Finally, opening day is here. It's going to be a weird season. The Jays could go 40-20 and win the division, or 20-40 and be way out of it. But with 16 teams in the playoffs, the Jays just need to stay close and, if they could get into the playoffs, who knows?


Of course COVID will be a factor. We have seen it already in Washington. With the players travelling, and presumably heading out at night, there will likely be more COVID issues. While the NHL and NBA are going with hub cities, its business as usual for baseball.



The Jays start in Tampa. The three games are all at different times. It's a 6.40 start tonight, 3.10 Saturday and 1.10 Sunday.


Opening day sees Hyun-Jin Ryu make his first Blue Jay start against Charlie Morton.


Saturday, Matt Shoemaker returns to face Ryan Yarbrough.


Sunday's pitchers are undeclared, but it could be Tanner Roark for the Jays. That's three veteran pitchers for the Jays.


It will be interesting to see if the return of baseball is greeted with the same enthusiasm as it is in April. Will it be brushed aside in the midst of summer and vacation season? Does it matter?


Let's go Blue Jays!

Play Ball! It's Like Nothing You Have Seen Before | 166 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mike Green - Friday, July 24 2020 @ 04:29 PM EDT (#388369) #
"Covidball" has a bit of a ring to it, no?  As in "When you're playing Covidball, it's a whole new ballgame.  It's a short season, and you never know when it's going to end.  There's a bit of a weird kind of excitement in the not knowing.  Kind of like an illegal casino where you don't know when the cops are going to bust in and shut the place down."
85bluejay - Friday, July 24 2020 @ 04:43 PM EDT (#388370) #
Blue Jays over/under @ 28 wins - seems at tad high.
grjas - Friday, July 24 2020 @ 04:51 PM EDT (#388371) #
Could be a year where the healthiest team wins, and the injury list has new descriptors.
Magpie - Friday, July 24 2020 @ 06:28 PM EDT (#388373) #
I'm curious to start watching the games and discovering how much I actually care about it. I'm assuming something less than regular season, something more than an exhibition game.
hypobole - Friday, July 24 2020 @ 06:37 PM EDT (#388374) #
Atlanta had to leave both their catchers at home due to covid symptoms. Taxi squad guys will play vs the Mets.
Mike Green - Friday, July 24 2020 @ 06:52 PM EDT (#388375) #
I heard that MLB fired the marketing guy who proposed the comforting retro slogan  "Covidball fever, catch it!".
raptorsaddict - Friday, July 24 2020 @ 09:31 PM EDT (#388376) #
Well, I think we can finally put the "Vladito is working out and dieting!" discussions to rest once and for all. He's a first baseman, and eventually a DH.

I don't even think that's all down to working out or dieting. The man is built like a cigarette machine, which is why he's been launching nukes since he was like 8 years old. I don't think he could get under 225 no matter how hard he tried. I think the goal has to be to keep him under 275 for as long as possible. Even that is going to be a challenge.
Gerry - Friday, July 24 2020 @ 10:09 PM EDT (#388377) #
Good start. Dolis was probably the worst performer. Biggio the star.
Michael - Friday, July 24 2020 @ 10:13 PM EDT (#388378) #
Yep, nice Biggio performance. Rewarding me so far for starting him over DJ LeMahieu in scoresheet baseball (even beyond LeMahieu not playing the Yankee's opening game).

Think, just 59 games to go, and we are t-1st.
scottt - Friday, July 24 2020 @ 10:47 PM EDT (#388379) #
Baltimore gave up 13 runs in their opener and the game isn't over.
I don' t see how they win 20 games.

Ryu ran out of gas. Too bad, but it's so nice to have a real ace.

So now, the road trip to Washington is for 4 games.
Maybe they wait to start Pearson in Buffalo against the Phillies.
And I have no idea what's the plan with Borucki.

The plate discipline was pretty good tonight.
I don't know if that has anything to do with Dante Bichette being on the bench.
If guys like Teoscar, Tellez and Fisher can lay off the junk, there's a lot of power in the lineup.

Dolis wasn't great but got it done somehow.
I looked really good against Boston.

I'm expecting to see more right bats in the lineup tomorrow.
Maybe Espinal and Gurriel if he's ready.
Pretty hard to find time for everybody with 15 position players.

StephenT - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 01:30 AM EDT (#388380) #
It was so nice seeing the lefty Ryu pitch from the Tropicana camera in straightaway centre field.
You wouldn't be able to judge the in/out break on his pitches from a camera in the common left-of-centre spot (e.g., most of his pitches would appear to pass through left-handed batters).
I'm putting my request in early -- please, please, please put a camera in straightaway centre at Sahlen field (like they do at Fenway and the Trop).
greenfrog - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 09:38 AM EDT (#388383) #
I wonder if this season will spur interest in permanently shortening the regular season, say, to 140 (or fewer) games. I think this would be a positive development. The season is too long as it is, especially with spring training and the lengthy postseason tacked on to either end. And the length of individual games makes the season seem that much longer. One side benefit would be fewer injuries to the players.
Chuck - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 10:07 AM EDT (#388384) #
I think we can finally put the "Vladito is working out and dieting!" discussions to rest

He seems to have spent the pandemic as I did, sitting on the couch, snacking, working on his covid 19 (akin to the freshman 15).

permanently shortening the regular season, say, to 140 (or fewer) games

Not sure what's in it for the owners. That's a lot of revenue they'd be foregoing. I ask, sans snark, if any professional sports league has ever shortened their schedule. All I can think of is the opposite.

Chuck - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 10:17 AM EDT (#388385) #
I'm curious to start watching the games and discovering how much I actually care about it. I'm assuming something less than regular season, something more than an exhibition game.

I am on the exact same page.

I had a passing interest in last night's game, not much more. The pandemic has shown me how minimally important pro sports are to my life despite having consumed tons of it since I was a wee lad. The time once devoted to sports easily got back-filled. I wonder if enough people are of my mindset for this to make a noticeable impact when (if?) the world gets back to normal. Or maybe, say two years out, life is exactly the same as it was in early 2020 and we have all reverted exactly to our previous life patterns. The post-9/11 changes in human behaviour were not long-lasting. Irony was indeed not dead after all, and people's empathy and generosity eventually went back into hiding.

Chuck - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 10:23 AM EDT (#388386) #
Dr. Anthony Fauci threw out the opening pitch in Thursday's Washington game. It did not go well.

Full power to the good doctor. No mockery is warranted. The man is 79! Some humorous comments that I heard: he flattened the curve and he didn't want anyone to catch anything.

The reprehensible Sinclair Broadcast Group is poised to air a piece of monumental nonsense claiming that Fauci created the Covid virus. (Yes, I know this probably belongs in the Covid thread.)

hypobole - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 10:42 AM EDT (#388388) #
ESPN's Dave Schoenfield with something I was thinking about after watching the game last night:
"Don't be shocked if Biggio has a better season than Vladimir Guerrero"

Don't know if anyone else wants to make a prediction, but I'm definitely #1 Bo, #2 Cavan, #3 Vlad this year.

If I were to guess, and it's purely a guess, Vladdy's main issue is carb consumption. Well known his grandma makes the most awesome rice and beans. I've done keto and it worked for a while (lost 20 lbs) but it also proved to me how much I love my carbs. So now I eat far more salad and cruciferous than I enjoy, almost nothing with added sugars, and I am still on the high end of normal weight simply because of my carb consumption. Carbs are far too insidiously delicious and it's so easy to overeat. I have to keep reminding myself of that snack food warning label suggested by The Onion : "STOP EATING WHEN NO LONGER HUNGRY!"
Shoeless Joe - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 11:41 AM EDT (#388389) #
I fully expect Biggio to have a better season than Vlad.
scottt - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 11:52 AM EDT (#388390) #
According to Baseball Savant, the Jays features 5 pitchers who all threw a fastball and a slider.
The Rays featured 4 pitchers. None of them threw a slider. One of them didn't even throw fastballs.

PeterG - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 12:57 PM EDT (#388392) #
If Thomas Hatch is not used today, he will start tomorrow. He will be followed by Anthony Kay who may start if Hatch doesn't.
Gerry - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 01:18 PM EDT (#388393) #
Santiago Espinal is in the lineup today for his major league debut.

Gurriel is also back.
hypobole - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 01:21 PM EDT (#388394) #
What's up with Tanner Roark?
PeterG - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 01:58 PM EDT (#388395) #
Roark is not yet where he needs to be. He was lit up in each of his intra squad outings.
Mike Green - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 02:06 PM EDT (#388396) #
McGuire starts against the lefty this afternoon after Jansen faced the righty last night.  Unconventional (Another year, I would have described it as weird but like Chuck, I can't get worked up about much this season). 

I have no idea how all the young kids will do individually.  As a group, I think that they are going to improve mostly because of the aging curve but also in VGJ's case because of the change in position.  They're a good group, with Biggio's maturity and discipline a nice counterpoint to the enthusiasm and cheerfulness of Bichette and Guerrero Jr. 
scottt - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 02:12 PM EDT (#388397) #
Jansen will get more starts unless McGuire is hot and he's cold.
He should get the start Sunday--against another lefty--and we'll see  what happens in Washington.
4 left bats in the opener was good.

Guerrero is 21, that's too young to peak.

uglyone - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 02:46 PM EDT (#388398) #
At age 21 Biggio put up a 111wrc+ mostly at Lansing with a late promotion to Dunedin.

I bet 21yr old Vladdy beats that.
Mylegacy - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 03:21 PM EDT (#388399) #
Vlad - July 25th 2020 - I'm making the call, NOW!

Vlad is going to LOVE playing first. He's in most plays, he's involved in the game way more than at 3rd, he can actually play the position. He'll become league average(ish) at it. He'll feel positive about his defensive contribution.

With the bat - he is still a work in progress. BUT - he is mostly just a few degrees of launch angle away from stardom.

MY CALL: By the beginning of the 2021 season (should the Covid-19 so allow) We'll have the first full year of an eventual: "Hall of Famer."
Bank on it, invest thousands on it, if you lose I'll cover any losses you might have! Guaranteed! (Small caveat: My wife has a veto over this last line should she so choose to assert). (Word of warning: She asserts her word - a lot!) (Yes, I know, she can be a real party pooper).
Chuck - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 04:01 PM EDT (#388400) #
(Word of warning: She asserts her word - a lot!) (Yes, I know, she can be a real party pooper).

Don't believe for a moment that your bravery and heroism go unnoticed in these parts. Continue to stand proudly, making your courageous assertions. (And of course, beg forgiveness later, when we can't all see.)

uglyone - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 04:16 PM EDT (#388401) #
I am so glad they stopped the vladdy@3b nonsense. Suddenly we have a good looking infield defense (even with vladdy at 1b - imo he made a very good 1st impression there yesterday).

We are getting close to legit looking like a top notch defensive team. Still a bit shady (but not awful) in the OF. Maybe Martin can help fix that.
uglyone - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 04:21 PM EDT (#388402) #
If Shoemaker is healthy then I can finally project us to maybe being a legit good pitching staff. Big if tho.

But while we seem to have a safely average offense, we could really use one or two of the kids taking a bit step forward to really give us a legit strong offense.
uglyone - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 04:42 PM EDT (#388403) #
Lol I have never heard the rays dome so loud.



Way better than real life.
greenfrog - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 05:06 PM EDT (#388404) #
"McGuire starts against the lefty this afternoon after Jansen faced the righty last night. Unconventional"

It seems to have worked out in this case, with Shoemaker/Jansen combining for effective run prevention, and Jansen providing offensive production in a high-leverage situation (game-tying home run in the 7th).
uglyone - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 05:07 PM EDT (#388405) #
Literally the ONLY thing missing from mcguire's minor league profile was power. Everything else was there - zone control, contact, defense. Its why I have always ranked him high on our prospect lists.

If he continues to grow into his power he may turn into a legit stud.
Mylegacy - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 05:50 PM EDT (#388406) #
Chuck, I'm not as brave nor heroic as you suspect. While I always stand proud, I never beg forgiveness later. For a simple reason. At my age I've always forgotten my fearless predictions within a day or two.

My life is one long winning streak, with no memory of any failures! Except those "she" reminds me of...
Shoeless Joe - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 05:50 PM EDT (#388407) #
Vladdy and Biggio are at the point where what he does at the major league level matters. At 1B Vladdy is going to have to hit like Freddie Freeman to be provide more value than what Biggio provides at 2B.
99BlueJaysWay - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 05:56 PM EDT (#388408) #
What on earth was Montoyo doing bringing Gaviglio in for the 8th? Heís a long man, not a late inning arm. So frustrating watching him manage with the goal of getting everyone into the series instead of managing to win each game. Does he know itís a condensed schedule?
John Northey - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 06:22 PM EDT (#388409) #
Well, so much for going 60-0 and becoming a legend ... 59-1 would be nice :)
Mike Green - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 06:29 PM EDT (#388410) #
I promise not to criticize even obliquely anything about Reese McGuire this season. The juvenile jokes are way too easy, and in a pandemic, more than a little tempting.

McGuire had a good game and made Montoyo's unconventional move look inspired.

Magpie - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 06:54 PM EDT (#388411) #
What on earth was Montoyo doing bringing Gaviglio in for the 8th?

He's said - out loud, in front of people - that he thinks Gaviglio is a "high-leverage guy." I think Gaviglio's the guy you call on when the starter craps the bed and you're down by four runs in the third inning.

Time will show the wiser, as the late Emmit Rhodes wrote so many years ago.
Shoeless Joe - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 07:29 PM EDT (#388412) #
Prior to the start of this game I didnít think Sammy G had value on this roster, and I hope he is used less moving forward. I just cannot see how TJ Zeuch or Waguespack would not be a better long men.
Magpie - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 08:31 PM EDT (#388413) #
Day 2, in the midst of Everything, and I'm complaining about bullpen usage.

It's just like riding a bicycle. You never forget.
scottt - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 08:36 PM EDT (#388414) #
Gaviglio was really good early on last year, one time through the lineup.

I didn't like the result, but the process was good.
The Jays didn't swing at everything and didn't strike out like crazy.
They got more hits than the Rays.
Shoemaker looked as good as last year.

Cash kept his slider throwing right handed pen guys to use in a game started with a lefty.
Montoyo could have pinch hit more, but down by 3 and on the road, the game was already lost.

raptorsaddict - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 10:42 PM EDT (#388415) #
Chuck said, "He seems to have spent the pandemic as I did, sitting on the couch, snacking, working on his covid 19 (akin to the freshman 15)."

Yes, yes he certainly does.

Hypobole said, "Don't know if anyone else wants to make a prediction, but I'm definitely #1 Bo, #2 Cavan, #3 Vlad this year. "

I'd say I have Bo, then Cavan and Vlad about tied (this year). I've said it before, but I'll say it again: every single aspect of Vladito's movements looks pained, except for when he's swinging. Running, jogging, diving - it all just seems like a chance for him to get injured. Contrast that with Biggio, who just seems like a guy who is going to help you win, night in and night out.
greenfrog - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 10:47 PM EDT (#388416) #
A Reds player, Matt Davidson, tested positive for COVID-19 a day after he started the opening game as a DH.

I can understand why some players have decided to sit out the 2020 season. It's probably an intelligent decision. The risk of contracting the virus, and of experiencing non-trivial health consequences as a result (and possibly spreading the virus to others), seems pretty significant.
James W - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 10:53 PM EDT (#388417) #
It's just like riding a bicycle. You never forget.

The first time the Rays pitching coach went out to talk to Morton yesterday, he covered his mouth with his hand, even though he was wearing a mask. Old habits...
hypobole - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 11:09 PM EDT (#388418) #
On the subject of non-trivial health consequences, here's something on Red Sox pitcher Eduardo Rodriguez extended absence from WEEI.comís Rob Bradford "There seems to be a strong possibilityĒ that Rodriguez is suffering from the inflammation of the heart muscle known as myocarditis, which has been observed in multiple patients recovering from COVID-19.
John Northey - Saturday, July 25 2020 @ 11:24 PM EDT (#388419) #
Gotta say how I love the kids on this team...
Alford, Biggio, Vlad, and Espinal all kneeling and Biggio's quote about why he did it (regarding a talk with Alford pre-game)...
ďHeís an up and down guy, not a starter, so I told him, ĎHey man, if I did it would you feel more comfortable doing it?íĒ relayed Biggio. ďHe said yeah, so that was my thought process going through with it. I just wanted to show support to not only a teammate but someone I consider a brother. Ö

ďI was proud to do it with him. I think we can all agree that there needs to be change, and Iím just trying to do my part.Ē
ISLAND BOY - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 06:18 AM EDT (#388420) #
Gaviglio crapped the bed but you're not going to win many games scoring one run. I was kind of hoping to see the new-fangled extra inning thing where you start with a runner at second.
scottt - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 07:11 AM EDT (#388421) #
Not in a rush to see extra innings against the Rays.
There is not 1 player on the team that cannot be pinched run for and their pen is deep.

Cracka - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 09:41 AM EDT (#388422) #
Three extra-inning games so far:
- Angels: 0 runs; runner on 2nd out on fielder's choice.
- A's: 4 runs (won); HBP, Walk, HR.
- Braves: 3 runs (won); RBI Single, Single, Double.
- Mets: 1 run (lost); single, Sac Fly.
- Royals: 1 run (won); PINCH-RUNNER, sac bunt, sac fly
- Cleveland: 0 runs (lost) PINCH-RUNNER, 3 strikeouts.

I would expect the Rays to follow the Royals' strategy: Pinch-run & sacrifice twice, optimizing their chances of scoring 1 run.
85bluejay - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 10:36 AM EDT (#388423) #
How many ground balls will Vlad hit today?
hypobole - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 10:54 AM EDT (#388425) #
From the few studies I've seen in the past, over 50% of extra inning games have gone to the 11th inning or beyond.

People who want this new rule to last beyond this season seem to be few and far between, but the sample size of 3 games so far seem to prove it does work. :)
hypobole - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 10:59 AM EDT (#388426) #
s/b "seems to prove"
John Northey - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 11:30 AM EDT (#388427) #
If MLB sticks with the 16 team playoff we might as well keep the runner on 2nd extra inning rule. The regular season will be like the NHL's where you just filter out the worst teams. So the regular might as well have fun stuff, be it shootouts or runners on in extras.
Cracka - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 12:08 PM EDT (#388428) #
Drury activated from IL and is starting at 3B today; McKinney has been optioned. Alford starting in LF. That makes three different starters at 3B & LF in three games. But it feels like our lineup has gotten progressively weaker throughout the series.
bpoz - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 12:51 PM EDT (#388429) #
You have to play the veterans or it is considered disrespectful. So Drury, Gaviglio and C Anderson. Pearson can probably bump all but Ryu I think. For now that is. Could change in Sept.

Roark, Anderson and Shoemaker could settle in as #4s. Kay, Borucki, Zeuch, SRF and maybe some other young SPs could become #2s. P Murphy and J Murray are advancing SPs that should be getting stretched out. If they get to play and somehow dominate the choice to put them in the rotation has to be considered. Jesse Litsch in 2007 as a rookie was quite solid IMO. Was he good enough in 2007 to out perform a vet?
rpriske - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 01:34 PM EDT (#388430) #
Alford in left, Grichuk on centre, and Teoscar in right seems like the worst defensive alignment possible for those exact three players.
Shoeless Joe - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 01:52 PM EDT (#388431) #
Hatch had a little trouble locating his change up and never showed much of a breaking ball, but his fastball looked great.
uglyone - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 02:45 PM EDT (#388432) #
I'll give Montoya some leeway in that he wants to get everyone's feet wet, but in general this offense is not good enough for him to be conceding 2 slots in the order every day to guys like drury alford panik espinal Fisher.

This offense is going to be hard pressed to be above average even if we lean on the starters, but if we're going to pretend that we're built to be super-versatile and able to sub in our very weak bench bats in freely, just because they can play different positions defensively, then we're gonna struggle to score.
Shoeless Joe - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 02:56 PM EDT (#388433) #
Alford looked completely overmatched and swung through a lot of heaters over the plate. I am ok with Fisher being mixed in, but Espinal and Alford can pretty much only act at defensive replacements right now.

Watching how Kay and Hatch pitched today Iím more upset with how Montoyo has mixed in guys like Moran, Sammy G and Cole over the impressive young arms the Jays have. Borucki just shouldnít be in the stands today.
hypobole - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 03:06 PM EDT (#388434) #
Is Alford even a defensive replacement? He's probably better than Fisher and that's about it.
Mike Green - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#388435) #
The Hatch/Kay tandem has two choices for invites/websites advertising their new productive association- Katch and Hay.
uglyone - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 03:14 PM EDT (#388436) #
I don't miss the fans at all tbh.

Sounds like the best tbay crowd ever.
Shoeless Joe - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 03:18 PM EDT (#388437) #
I agree the pumped in crowd noise is actually pretty good.
btfsplk325 - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 04:25 PM EDT (#388438) #
One great thing about the games so far, no spitting. That is one non-negative fallout from Covid-19. It was the one thing about baseball that made it hard for me to watch. I had to turn my head away from the game when it was about to happen.
Shoeless Joe - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 04:44 PM EDT (#388439) #
I know hindsight is 20/20, but Kay and Romano were pulled too soon and we had limited options in the 9th after Giles got hurt.
scottt - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 04:46 PM EDT (#388440) #
I was kind of hoping to see the new-fangled extra inning thing where you start with a runner at second.

There you go. Those kind of wishes come easy in the House of Horrors.
Gerry - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 04:52 PM EDT (#388441) #
I think Giles was selfish/macho and hurt the team there. He was obviously hurt for a couple of batters and he didn't come out of the game. Until the last fastball he threw, he had been just using his slider for about ten pitches.
Magpie - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 04:58 PM EDT (#388442) #
Yup. The giveaway was after the umpire gave him a free strike on the 3-1 pitch to Adames, which wasn't particularly close. It meant "Come on, man, two run lead, two out in the ninth, let's go home."
rpriske - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 04:58 PM EDT (#388443) #
Both replays were correct.
Eephus - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 05:06 PM EDT (#388444) #
Worst place in baseball.
Magpie - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 05:09 PM EDT (#388445) #
Giles get a Hold for that, Moran gets the Blown Save. Sigh.
Michael - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 05:09 PM EDT (#388446) #
So many hits without runs early in the game, blow up at the end. With only 57 games left, each game blown hurts more.
BlueJayWay - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 05:10 PM EDT (#388447) #
Yep, that was a series in Tampa. They simply don't win series there. It's just not allowed for some reason.

On to the next one...
Eephus - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 05:23 PM EDT (#388448) #
Almost refreshing to know how the house of horrors never changes. Geezus....

Aside from my Rays hate, I have some early thoughts. Iíve only listened on the radio so far, so I canít really comment on how people look in the field etc.

I really do not like the ďrunner on secondĒ rule in extra innings, but thatís probably just because Iím a bit of a purist (still love seeing pitchers take at bats. If that never comes back the professional game will continue to lose me). My compromise would be to start doing it in the 11th or 12th, not immediately. I hate the idea of a team clawing out a run in the top of an inning, only for some random schmoe to hijack a fastball and win the game on the first pitch in the bottom of the inning. Not arguing the rule is unfair, but it does give a serious home field advantage and it just doesnít feel totally right to me. Whatever.

Losing Grichuk or Giles for any period of time definitely torpedos this teamís chances of... whatever their potential is (now with expanded playoffs itís harder to care, sorry). They donít have a real Centerfielder now (and thatís being generous to Grichuk) and Giles is legit a top top reliever in the game. Gawd what a horrible loss... gawd I hate Tropicana Field!!! Baseball must be back.

Last thing.... the radio team of Wagner and Wilner is just a treat. Wagner brings real adrenaline, excitement to the action without being a huge homer... while Wilnerís approach is enjoyably cerebral, calm and in tune with the intricacies happening all around. A real solid duo and itís made listening to these games Iím not sure if Iím passionate about.... make me remember those things I do love about baseball.

Gerry - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 05:23 PM EDT (#388449) #
You could argue that the Jays outplayed Tampa in each game. One bad inning by Gaviglio and another by Giles cost the Jays the series.
Magpie - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 05:29 PM EDT (#388450) #
I really do not like the ďrunner on secondĒ rule in extra innings

If they must do this silly thing... how about play the 10th inning straight. Put a runner on first in the 11th. If that doesn't end the game, put a runner on second in the 12th. Put one on third in the 13th.

Well, I suppose the whole point is to make the games shorter, without cutting into TV commercial time. Anytime you get to the 11th inning is, by definition, a failure. I still think of it as "free baseball" myself.
#2JBrumfield - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 05:35 PM EDT (#388451) #
I even knew Giles was hurt after that second upstairs fastball. This one is on Giles, Walker and Montoya. Whoever recommended signing Yamaguchi should be embarrassed. Why is Yamaguchi wearing #1. Why isnít there a 7 patch for Damaso Garcia? Thatís ownership for you. Okay, done bitching now.
Magpie - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 05:37 PM EDT (#388452) #
And in other news, roughly a quarter of the Marlins team tests positive for The Virus and Justin Verlander is probably out for the year.
Gerry - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 05:48 PM EDT (#388453) #
Elbow soreness for Giles. Those extra pitches probably didn't help.
scottt - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 05:50 PM EDT (#388454) #
The positive here is that the Jays have looked like the better team.

The homerun to Choi looms large.
I think they just threw him a batting practice fastball because he had looked awful the first time.

Yamaguchi's best pitch is a splitter that he hasn't been able to throw with the larger American balls.
Maybe his hands aren't big enough. Maybe he'll figure it out.
Tsutsugo looks like a good get.

The Jays might just need 30 or 31 wins to make the playoffs.
If they do, they might have a decent set of starters.

Bass has looked good. Romano too.
I'm not too worried about having Fisher/Alford instead of Grichuk.

#2JBrumfield - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 06:01 PM EDT (#388455) #
Another point raised on Twitter. Shaw shouldíve been at first base to replace Vladdy in the 9th. Terrible managing by Montoyo and company this series.
Michael - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 06:12 PM EDT (#388456) #
About the runner on second, I also thought about the escalating runner situation (none in 10th, at 1st in 11th, at 2nd in 12th, at 3rd in 13th) but then realized the existing practice is likely better. The point about the runner starting at 2nd is that the odds of scoring a run are around 60%. Ideally you want the odds of scoring a run to be somewhere around 50%. Too low and you'll need too many innings. Too high (like the runner starting on 3rd) and you'll have too many innings where each team scores a run. So a runner on 2nd and no one out is just about perfect.
scottt - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 06:17 PM EDT (#388457) #
Does it make sense that a tanking team like the Marlins would get contaminated but that the Rays would be OK.

Garrett Cooper the 1B and Harold Ramirez  have tested positive in Philly and will have to self quarantine in their hotel room for 14 days. Better late than never I guess.

Catcher Jorge Alfaro is on the IL for undisclosed reasons. The Drury syndrome.

Pitcher Jose Urena has also tested positive, but he's asymptomatic, so I think he could be back after 2 negative tests. There is no minimum stay on the covid IL.

scottt - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 06:21 PM EDT (#388458) #
Guerrero is already DHing. I don't expect they'll ever replace him defensively.
scottt - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 06:25 PM EDT (#388459) #
I don't doubt that many games will end in the 10th.
I do expect the Jays to lose most of those.

Let's hope for no more extra innings.

Shoeless Joe - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 06:29 PM EDT (#388460) #
At one point in the game the Jays had a 95% chance of winning.
BlueJayWay - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 06:42 PM EDT (#388461) #
About the runner on second, I also thought about the escalating runner situation (none in 10th, at 1st in 11th, at 2nd in 12th, at 3rd in 13th) but then realized the existing practice is likely better. The point about the runner starting at 2nd is that the odds of scoring a run are around 60%. Ideally you want the odds of scoring a run to be somewhere around 50%. Too low and you'll need too many innings. Too high (like the runner starting on 3rd) and you'll have too many innings where each team scores a run. So a runner on 2nd and no one out is just about perfect.

Good point here. I might get flack for this from the traditionalists but I like the new rule. The only downside is we're essentially never going to see any of those monster 18 inning games again. Those were fun since they were vanishingly rare. Now they're likely extinct.
Four Seamer - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 06:46 PM EDT (#388462) #
I agree that was pretty miserable work from Montoyo, but I would like to focus on the inexplicable decision to lift Romano after 9 pitches, in favour of Dolis. On the broadcast they were speculating it was because he wanted to keep Romano available for tomorrow, but when nursing a three run lead with three innings to play, todayís game is considerably more important than tomorrowís where he may well not be needed. This tendency of the modern manager to lift a guy who is dealing in order to cycle through his pen and find the guy who doesnít have it is one of the most maddening features of the game today. That there are approximately three dozen arms in the bullpen does not suggest this trend will end anytime soon. I mostly gave Montoyo a pass last year, but increasingly am of the view that he is a placeholder to be replaced with a better manager once the team is ready to contend.

And yes, Yamaguchi looks like a total bust. Thankfully no real money is involved in that deal but Iíd expect him back in Japan this time next year.
John Northey - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 06:46 PM EDT (#388463) #
If Giles was healthy then that would've been an easy win. If they pulled Giles as soon as they could see he wasn't right, it probably was a win.

Sigh. I know I was really hoping they'd keep Romano in for a second inning, and that they'd pull Giles after he put 2 on. It was obvious he wasn't right. Never, ever, ever trust a pitcher when he says 'no I'm OK' when you suspect he isn't. You will regret it everytime.
John Northey - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 06:52 PM EDT (#388464) #
A good thing is they did get all 15 hitters into a game (skipping McKinney who is down for awhile unless called up to replace Grichuk) already and 12 pitchers so far. Only guys not in are Thornton & Waguespack who are probably both pitching tomorrow in Washington. So 3 games in and Baltimore is tied for 1st. Go figure. Arizona (0-2) and San Diego (2-0) are the only teams not to have both a win and loss right now. (San Diego winning again 1-0 in the 8th inning).
Shoeless Joe - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 07:26 PM EDT (#388465) #
If Giles goes down for Tommy John I hope they bump up Romano to closer and use Bass and Kay as the main set-up men. I would also hope that eventually Merryweather can take on a high leverage role as well.
scottt - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 08:02 PM EDT (#388466) #
They might be building Romano for back to back outings, but they're probably not building him for multiple innings. Dolis wasn't great, but a similar performance in the 9th would have won the game.

Last year, Romano looked really good for a handful of games, got hurt and was not sharp when he came back. So, I can see no rush to push him when they have guys like Bass and Cole.

Merryweather should be in the picture. Reid-Foley as well.



Cynicalguy - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 08:54 PM EDT (#388467) #
Giles probably didn't want to come out of the game because it's going to hurt his free agent market in the off season...two seasons in a row with arm trouble, he was maybe thinking he could get by the 2 months somehow and increase his value.

The bullpen is going to be interesting over the next 2 weeks and a month. Anderson and Pearson are going to be activated within days, and I am guessing Borucki is also getting added to the team. That's 3 spots on the 30 man roster, plus in 2 weeks 1 more pitcher would have to be removed, and another one in 2 weeks after that. That means 5 pitchers currently on the roster would be removed.
Injuries would likely sort some of this out...Giles looks like is headed to DL.

Currently we have:
Giles (likely headed to DL)
Dolis
Bass
Romano
Cole
Gaviglio
Moran
Yamaguchi
Waguespack
Hatch
Kay
Thornton (assuming Anderson and Pearson go into the rotation)

I think they are planning to keep 2 of Waguespack, Thornton, Hatch, Borucki and Kay at a time and assign the others to Rochester and rotate them through out the season. Then there's Merryweather, Reid-Foley, Murphy and Font.

My optimal 8 man bullpen would be:
Giles
Romano
Font
Bass
Merryweather
Borucki
Kay
Thornton



Magpie - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 09:12 PM EDT (#388468) #
Giles probably didn't want to come out of the game because it's going to hurt his free agent market in the off season...

You really are a cynical guy! Nah, I doubt he was thinking that on the mound. He was probably thinking that "my elbow hurts, but I only need to make one more pitch and we're out of here. That's all. Just one more."
Cynicalguy - Sunday, July 26 2020 @ 09:51 PM EDT (#388469) #
You really are a cynical guy! Nah, I doubt he was thinking that on the mound. He was probably thinking that "my elbow hurts, but I only need to make one more pitch and we're out of here. That's all. Just one more." Perhaps you are right...either way, he made his injury worse and hurt the team in the end.
John Northey - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 03:23 AM EDT (#388470) #
Hmm... tough choices coming soon. Who do you cut to get to 28 then 26?

Alford is probably toast, even though he is out of options and seems well liked and has great speed thus of value.

Either Panik or Espinal I figure goes down, probably Espinal due to having tons of options still.

Pitchers are a crap shoot. Shun Yamaguchi should be sent down but with the 2 year deal they might hesitate. Gaviglio they don't seem to have much confidence in either. I figure Waguespack/Gaviglio/Thornton are all on the bubble with Yamaguchi and I think all have options left.
Shoeless Joe - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 07:29 AM EDT (#388471) #
Average launch angle for Vladdy through the first series: -2.7
ISLAND BOY - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 07:39 AM EDT (#388472) #
I don't know why Thornton would be on the bubble when he was arguably the Jays best pitcher after Stroman was traded. ( Not a huge feat but still, his stats were good)

Everyone has commented a lot on the pitching yesterday, but no one has mentioned that The Jays soundly outhit Tampa and left a ton of runners on base, including the bases loaded twice. A key hit would have put the game out of reach but the Jays let the Rays hang close and got burned in the end. Especially concerning to me is our power hitters, Vladdy and Tellez, showing no power at all.

And, finally, Scottt, you were right. While the extra inning thing is entertaining, Tampa is a hard club to do it against. They fight and claw to the last out in every game they play.
scottt - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 08:18 AM EDT (#388473) #
Espinal or  Drury, probably espinal.
There is probably a competition between Drury and Panik too.
Waguespack, I think he wasn't sharp in camp.
Moran could go if he doesn't get the job done.
Yamaguchi could be sent down to work on his stuff.
If they can't or don't want to demote him, the taxi squad might be an option.

Thomas - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 08:33 AM EDT (#388474) #
If Montoyo has a significant say in who stays, I don't expect Gaviglio to go down. In fact, I'd say he has confidence in Gaviglio, as opposed to no confidence.

Injuries may make the next round of cuts easier, but I think the first round would likely be Espinal (due to the health of Drury and options) and Waguespack.
bpoz - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 09:09 AM EDT (#388475) #
We lost the series because we did not have timely hitting. Giles lost game 3. Gaviglio game 2.

Any pitcher can have a bad game. So Gaviglio should get better. Dolis has to get better or he loses his high leverage role.

Ryu will go deeper into games I expect.

I expect the young pitchers like Zeuch, SRF and Borucki to get stretched out to 5 innings eventually if not there already.

Montoyo and Walker are going to have to make the right pitching decisions. Could be that there are injuries that us fans don't know about.

Drury had a good game. I don't believe our OF defense has lost us any games yet. It is still early so the OF defense can still lose us games.

hypobole - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 09:29 AM EDT (#388476) #
Marlins are now up to 12 players and 2 coaches testing positive for covid as of today. Tonight's home opener has been cancelled and they are stuck in Philly.
Mike Green - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 09:44 AM EDT (#388477) #
I hope that the Jays and Rays remain healthy.  The West Coast of Florida hasn't been afflicted at quite the same rate as the East Coast, but still.



hypobole - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 09:49 AM EDT (#388478) #
Good luck with this one, Manfred.
scottt - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 09:56 AM EDT (#388479) #
I blame it on Jeter.

Seriously, players need to keep their distance and wear masks when off the field and if they are being held to the bases. If everybody needs to stay away from their family, that's a plus for the Jays.

It's actually good for Manfred. There's no way  the union can argue the season is shortened without cause.

scottt - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 10:03 AM EDT (#388480) #
Playing the weekend series in Philly?
It's  OK. The Yankees are there right  now for 2.
Then they have 2 days to sanitize the stadium.

hypobole - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 10:52 AM EDT (#388481) #
So the Yankees and Phillies play 2 games, then sanitize the stadium? What sense does that make, scottt?

When are the Marlins going to play next? It isn't today. Here's a wild guess. It isn't going to be tomorrow either. Are teams even going to go to Miami to play?

The season is unravelling already.
Chuck - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 10:57 AM EDT (#388482) #
Seriously, players need to keep their distance and wear masks when off the field and if they are being held to the bases.

I think for all the sports leagues, this is just not realistically going to happen. I take it as a given that every team that bubbles will have open, mask-free movement of players and coaches within that bubble. If one goes down, many are sure to go down. I was previously more dubious about the boundaries between team bubbles and the outside world, but those walls may be stronger than I expected, the Lou Williams story notwithstanding.

rtcaino - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 11:04 AM EDT (#388483) #
It's actually good for Manfred. There's no way the union can argue the season is shortened without cause.

Except it would be bad for Manfred if every other league in the world was able to put together a coherent and effective COVID plan except his.

The best thing for him at this point would be for the NFL to start up and be just as much of a clusterfudge.

Mike Green - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 11:10 AM EDT (#388484) #
Ken Rosenthal has an article over at the Athletic on the situation.  A quote from the article:

"Both Swartzberg and Binney [infectious disease specialists] said that if they were advising Major League Baseball, they would recommend hitting the pause button on the Marlinsí season, most likely for the next two weeks."

Needless to say, this outbreak is an indication that the likelihood that the season is completed is low.
85bluejay - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 11:12 AM EDT (#388485) #
PLEASE CXL THE SEASON NOW!!! Sorry
Chuck - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 11:15 AM EDT (#388486) #
Miami could miss the rest of the "regular season" and then leverage their .667 winning percentage and waltz into the playoffs.
AWeb - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 11:21 AM EDT (#388487) #
Sounds like a similar situation happening in Cincinnati, where one player tested positive, and several others are feeling sick. Yankees/Phillies cancelled tonight. In a schedule already filled to the brim with games, baseball simply doesn't work if teams aren't able to play. Also, not to be totally cold-hearted about it, but isn't this the point of having an entire backup roster? I guess you'd need a backup coaching staff too...but there are 30 extra players available and supposedly ready to step in.

It was nice to watch a few games. So when the season quickly ends after quickly beginning, should we count the 3-10 games worth of stats for the players?
Shoeless Joe - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 11:22 AM EDT (#388488) #
The plan to restart the season was destined to fail
Shoeless Joe - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 11:37 AM EDT (#388489) #
Thomas Hatch showed an average fastball spin rate of 2,563 rpm. That would have ranked 4th on the MLB leaderboard in 2019 amongst qualified pitchers, behind only Mike Minor, Justin Verlander and Jeff Smardinza, and just ahead of Gerrior Cole, Yu Darvish, Sonny Gray, Lance Lynn, Clayton Kershaw and Max Scherzer in that order.

At 94.8 mph only Gerrit Cole at 97.1 and Scherzer at 94.9 mph had higher average fastball speeds amongst that group. Overall Hatchís fastball has the makings of a plus pitch.
bpoz - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 11:44 AM EDT (#388490) #
Thanks Shoeless Joe. Hope he can provide a bigger sample size. He has surprised me.
Shoeless Joe - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 11:51 AM EDT (#388491) #
His movement on his 4 seamer are also elite, just analytically a dominant pitch. At this point he needs to show more with his breaking ball but between his fastball and change up I donít think Iíve come away with a better first impression from a young Jay pitcher in a long time. Although Iím sure Friday Iíll be more impressed with Pearson.
SK in NJ - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 11:55 AM EDT (#388492) #
A bubble was logistically near impossible to pull off in baseball. In addition, the player's union apparently would not approve a bubble idea. The only thing MLB could have done is move games out of Florida, but there's no way to prove this outbreak was spread in Miami. Could have happened anywhere. That was the risk associated with this. MLB probably hoped that any positives would be clustered throughout the season rather than a huge outbreak, but they clearly misjudged this.
scottt - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 11:57 AM EDT (#388493) #
Too early to judge other leagues. NFL? What will the next NHL season look like?
scottt - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 12:02 PM EDT (#388494) #
It's the bottom feeding Marlins.
They'll probably be able to resume playing once they have a few more days of tests.
Maybe they don't return to Miami?

The Yankees game against the Phillies is cancelled.
I think the Yanks just want  to play all their games in the Bronx.

Maybe the umps is the bigger factor here.
If the home plate umps are OK, the opposing team is probably OK too.

uglyone - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 12:20 PM EDT (#388495) #
"A bubble was logistically near impossible to pull off in baseball."

nonsense.
Glevin - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 01:05 PM EDT (#388496) #
"A bubble was logistically near impossible to pull off in baseball."

nonsense."

Absolutely and if they couldn't do one bubble, they could do a few different bubbles. Since the easts/centrals/wests were only playing each other anyway you didn't need 1 bubble, you needed 3 and there are plenty of cities that could handle that. Maybe if baseball were less interested in trying to break the union and trying to maximize every single cent to make short-term money, they could have come up with a genuine plan that would have given the sport some more long-term health.
SK in NJ - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 01:11 PM EDT (#388497) #
"nonsense."

As great and well thought as that argument was, you're wrong. This is not basketball. You need big league quality fields to accommodate 30 teams/15 games a day, clubhouses, amenities good enough for TV, lodging nearby, a way to prevent players and umpires from getting out of the bubble to avoid exposure, another bubble for the taxi squad, etc, etc, etc. Not to mention that pesky thing about the player's union actually having to agree to it, which from what I have read was not going to happen.

The only way a bubble could have worked is if all MLB had left was the post season. Then they could have put 10 playoff teams into a bubble and figured out a schedule from there. To play a full season with all the teams and with the sheer amount of people involved? Wasn't even remotely realistic.

It was either play out the season like this, or cancel it altogether. Those were the only options. It's the same reason why the NFL isn't trying a bubble. There's too many bodies and they need enough fields to make it happen. The NBA plan is unique because they aren't taking all the teams, and even if they did, they'd still have a much smaller group of people involved than MLB. It's apples and oranges.
SK in NJ - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 01:21 PM EDT (#388498) #
"Absolutely and if they couldn't do one bubble, they could do a few different bubbles. Since the easts/centrals/wests were only playing each other anyway you didn't need 1 bubble, you needed 3 and there are plenty of cities that could handle that. Maybe if baseball were less interested in trying to break the union and trying to maximize every single cent to make short-term money, they could have come up with a genuine plan that would have given the sport some more long-term health.

A bubble doesn't mean just isolating locations, it means players, umpires, coaches, etc, have to be in that one location at all times and not leave. That's why the NBA bubble is working. They have a huge resort/bubble to themselves and no one is allowed to leave. Anyone that comes in stays in their room for X amount of days before being able to come out. It's not just "play in Orlando". There's also the TV networks that will want games to played on prime time, not scattered throughout the morning and afternoon. It only makes sense in theory. In execution it would have been a nightmare.
bpoz - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 01:22 PM EDT (#388499) #
It is just a feeling but I think there will be roster moves for tonight's game. B Moran may not be available. So adding a lefty may be a good idea. Then again I don't know how the 33 man roster can be tinkered with.
scottt - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 01:47 PM EDT (#388500) #
The bubble plan was to use at least 15 spring camp facilities in Florida and Arizona, which have since become 2 of the worst states.

Pretty much everybody rejected the idea.

Yesterday's game was about 4 hours long. You can't play multiple games in the same stadium. It would be worse.

scottt - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 01:57 PM EDT (#388502) #
I don't know if the Marlins have been following the health and safety protocols.
I know the Jays coaches have not kept their masks on at all time, as they are supposed to.

scottt - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 02:06 PM EDT (#388503) #
It would seem like visiting teams should bring their own clubhouse staff.
John Northey - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 02:15 PM EDT (#388504) #
Right now I'd say the smart move is to get the Marlins out of Florida for the season. That state is a mess. The Rays as well. Keep a close eye on Houston and the Rangers as Texas is a mess too and now has hurricanes to deal with.

I suspect Pittsburgh's rejection was due to the 2 Florida teams as no sane person wants people from Florida coming in right now. So make those teams into 'travel teams' like the Jays were debating or find a park that will take them in. Easiest way to reduce risk.

As to how the leagues could've done this in bubbles - 3 bubbles...
  • East: NY - 2 ML parks - low current virus rate, tons of hotels to pick from, 2 parks 10 teams = 5 games a day 12/4/8 PM at one, 4/8 at the other. Should be enough time to make it work. Have early teams cut time between innings or something to speed it up if needed.
  • Central: Chicago - Cubs & White Sox parks - reasonable COVID rate (10 per 100,000) 2 ML parks, 10 teams. Same as NY (tons of hotels).
  • West: Not as easy as California has been a hot spot but SF/Oakland or LA both could work or LA/SD (3 parks thus 4/8 PM at 2 and 8 PM only at one).

The only problem is MLB only wants night games on weekdays and that can't happen unless you have a minimum of 5 parks which spreads it out more - East: NY(2), Philly, Washington, Baltimore (Boston could be mixed in); Central: Chicago (2), Milwaukee, then some distance to St Louis & KC); West (Oakland, SF, LAA, LAD, Padres). But still less risk than this silly 30 park method. I'd have to think that half the parks would drastically reduce the risk plus it takes Florida & Texas (2 hot spots) out of the equation.

Sadly all the theories are useless right now. If the Marlins play with their AAA club the end result would be minimal on the results as they suck regardless, but if a contender like the Yankees or Dodgers gets hit like that ouch.
scottt - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 02:21 PM EDT (#388505) #
The Marlins are working to acquire MLB caliber depth and just claimed Justin Shafer from the Reds.
85bluejay - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 02:40 PM EDT (#388506) #
Smart move would be for the Jays to trade the Alfords/McKinney etc. to the Marlins for some far away lottery tickets.
VictoryFaust - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 02:40 PM EDT (#388507) #
Hardly any players from Toronto or Tampa Bay wore masks or socially distanced during the first series of the season. What exactly do they think is going to happen? This is setting a bad example and it is dangerous for the players and, for the health of the league. I predict it will shut down within the week. This is on MLB for failing to insist on simple protocols like masking and social distancing when possible
uglyone - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 03:15 PM EDT (#388508) #
"You need big league quality fields to accommodate 30 teams/15 games a day, clubhouses, amenities good enough for TV, lodging nearby, a way to prevent players and umpires from getting out of the bubble to avoid exposure, another bubble for the taxi squad, etc, etc, etc."

All very doable.
uglyone - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#388509) #
"Absolutely and if they couldn't do one bubble, they could do a few different bubbles"

Yeah, 3 bubbles would have worked.

10 teams each, 5 games a day - 3 stadiums needed at most, but you could probably do it with 2 (2 afternoon games, 2 evening games, 1 late game).

As for them needing to be "big league stadiums", that's silly. There's plenty of nice milb and college parks that they could suffer the indignity of playing at. And they'd all be using the same stadiums so no need to be jealous of anyone. And its not hard to retrofit them with the necessary cameras.
uglyone - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 03:22 PM EDT (#388510) #
"There's also the TV networks that will want games to played on prime time, not scattered throughout the morning and afternoon."

Well I'm sure they'll be happier with no games at all, then.
scottt - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 03:23 PM EDT (#388511) #
It's not 15 games a day. It's 15 games in different stadiums.

They fumigated the Phillies clubhouse 3 times and the Yankees still refused to go there.

With the NHL it's all or nothing. If they have just 1 case everything will implode.

Shoeless Joe - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 03:32 PM EDT (#388512) #
At this point they might as well just call the rest of the year exhibition play, because it is very unlikely most teams finish the season and with the Marlins becoming a AAA team there will be questionable difference in strength of schedule. Whoever wins this World Series will likely have an asterisk bigger than the Astros trash can banner.
Glevin - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 03:34 PM EDT (#388513) #
"You need big league quality fields to accommodate 30 teams/15 games a day, clubhouses, amenities good enough for TV, lodging nearby, a way to prevent players and umpires from getting out of the bubble to avoid exposure, another bubble for the taxi squad, etc, etc, etc."

As Ugly said, this is very doable. if you can play 2 games a day (say 1 and 7) in same venue with plenty of time for cleaning, you only need 7 stadiums.

Al and NL east could both have played in NY/PHI bubble (less than 2 hour drive) and that's 3 major league stadiums.

Al and NL Central could have played in CHI/MIL bubble (3 major league stadiums)

AL and NL West could have played in LA/SD bubble. (3 major league stadiums).

Those are easy bubbles with plenty of accommodations around no flying and 9 major league stadiums. Umpires can stay within the divisions. In fact, if you want, there are plenty of secondary stadiums which would work in these bubbles to create a 4th venue. I.e. Reading has a great stadium. Southern California has Pepperdine and others, Chicago has Curtis Granderson field, etc...It was very doable.
PeterG - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#388514) #
It was the PA that did not want bubbles.
uglyone - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 03:51 PM EDT (#388515) #
I'm sure the PA will be happy with no games and no season, then.
scottt - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 04:01 PM EDT (#388516) #
The Yankees had half the team on the IL for most of last year.
I don't see the big deal.

The Marlins are poorly runs and it sounds like nobody was managing the players who decided by themselves when to play.

Kluber out, probably for the year.

Giles on the IL. Shaw is away on a family matter. (Not a good idea.)
Borucki and Font take their places.

Shoeless Joe - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 04:10 PM EDT (#388517) #
Borucki to piggyback Thorton tonight and Giles to the DL. Shaw sits against a righty tonight over Panik which is another questionable move at the bottom of the lineup.
bpoz - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 04:10 PM EDT (#388518) #
We could have swept TB. We need to stay in the race. Our hitters have to be good. No holes in the line up. Rowdy will be good.
James W - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 04:14 PM EDT (#388519) #
I don't know if the Marlins have been following the health and safety protocols.

According to the story on The Athletic, the Phillies were alarmed that the Marlins had appeared to not stagger their arrivals and workouts and how few people in the Marlins dugouts were wearing masks.
hypobole - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 04:15 PM EDT (#388520) #
Shaw isn't sitting. He's gone.
scottt - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 04:15 PM EDT (#388521) #
You need 15 stadiums. The players cannot share clubhouses and should not share any clubhouse employees between teams.

I need to watch every game and I'm mostly busy during the day.
Mind you I'm going to miss too many games because of little leagues.

Chuck - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 04:18 PM EDT (#388522) #
They fumigated the Phillies clubhouse 3 times and the Yankees still refused to go there.

Are we not learning that getting the virus via surface contact is fairly low risk, largely mitigated by hand washing? I wonder if the worry on that front is based on heightened fears from March and April when the messaging was very different.

It seems clear that close contact, with people goobering all over each other, is the big threat. And that is where people seem to be the most cavalier.

Shaw is away on a family matter. (Not a good idea.)

Especially if he takes advantage of his time out by getting chicken wings from a gentleman's club.

Magpie - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 04:18 PM EDT (#388523) #
(2 afternoon games, 2 evening games, 1 late game).

How would that work in practice? You've got two clubhouses and one field. What time do things happen? Teams A and B get the clubhouse from when to when, and then Teams C and D come in and so on. What happens if the game goes long?

I agree that the bubble model is the only one with a chance of working, but the quantity of baseball that normally gets played - every team, every day - is a unique problem
scottt - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 04:20 PM EDT (#388524) #
I'm going to enjoy every game like it's the last one of the season.
Michael - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 04:21 PM EDT (#388525) #
Yeah, you could easily do a bubble with just the ML stadiums in 3 cities. NY for the east, Chicago for the central, and LA (or better yet SF/Oak - where the numbers are better than LA) for the West.

With two stadiums you can play 3 games a day with 5 hours for game and switchover by just doing something like 9 am / 2 pm / 7 pm or 10 am / 3pm / 8 pm. You could treat each of the 2 stadiums as one mini-site to split your divisional teams into two "pods" that would only cross over occasionally (like every 2 weeks or whatever) to further isolate the teams even within each mini-bubble.

Since the stadiums are empty you could also bring in some amount of equipment into the concourses or other parts of the stadium for the players to use during/between games since there are no fans or anything (as well as where ever the teams stay - which could be any sort of facilities as these are huge cities).

You are only talking about 2.5 months to get the 60 games in.
uglyone - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 04:49 PM EDT (#388526) #
I mean theyre sharing clubhouses every day in the nhl and nba bubbles. Its not that complicated.
Mike Green - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 05:18 PM EDT (#388527) #
Absolutely correct, Chuck.  However, as I said in the other thread, the learning curve is very slow.  Einstein once said that there are two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity and that he wasn't sure about the universe.
vw_fan17 - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 05:34 PM EDT (#388528) #
They fumigated the Phillies clubhouse 3 times and the Yankees still refused to go there.

Are we not learning that getting the virus via surface contact is fairly low risk, largely mitigated by hand washing? I wonder if the worry on that front is based on heightened fears from March and April when the messaging was very different.


Even though baseball is often considered the most intellectual / analytical of the "big 4" (baseball, hockey, football, basketball), baseball players still do not suffer from a stereotype of possessing average or greater scientific literacy..

Shoeless Joe - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 06:02 PM EDT (#388529) #
Bo Bichette is a late scratch, hopefully not Covid from Tampa.
Shoeless Joe - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 07:18 PM EDT (#388530) #
Ohh man I hope Tellez and Jansen keep up their spring/summer hitting into the season. They have both looked much better at the plate to me.
hypobole - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 07:53 PM EDT (#388531) #
No Co-19 for Bo.

Tight left hamstring
Mike Green - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 08:13 PM EDT (#388532) #
Bo flows but doesn't Co.
Magpie - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 08:22 PM EDT (#388533) #
Tight left hamstring

Better than "flu-like symptoms" which used to just be code for a hangover. Now it's downright terrifying.
Mike Green - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 08:34 PM EDT (#388534) #
A tight hamstring is just what occurs when you try to turn two with COVID toes. Never mind, Bo will be fine.

Meanwhile, it would be nice if it wasn't Charlie Wholestaff starting every day.
uglyone - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 09:02 PM EDT (#388535) #
Jansen's line last year was the most negatively impacted by babip on the team. A "surge" this year would be no surprise.
greenfrog - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 09:13 PM EDT (#388536) #
I see Bass got Eaton to end the game. Sounds delicious.
hypobole - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 10:09 PM EDT (#388537) #
Montoyo confirmed Nate will be called up for Wednesday's "home opener".
scottt - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 10:28 PM EDT (#388538) #
There are no sanitation in hockey. If one player gets it, they will all get it.
And they could be handing out the cup in 2 weeks if every team played every day.

It's like comparing people taking the same plane with a huge house party.

The NHL season is already over, they are only doing the playoffs.
Will the next season just be a couple of hubs?
I would love to see that.

scottt - Monday, July 27 2020 @ 10:34 PM EDT (#388539) #
The starters are not stretched out.
I can live with a tandem start once in a while.
Borucki's fastball looks better. The cutter is nice, bu the change up isn't quite back yet.

I think Dolis has problems throwing the splitter with the American balls, too.

Bass has looked quite good.
I don't know if Font is ready to go.

scottt - Tuesday, July 28 2020 @ 06:42 AM EDT (#388540) #
After this game, I cut Panik before Espinal.

Hernandez had one ball that looked playable and Fisher lost one on the transfer.

Strasburgh has less tingling in his hand.

Michael Kopeck seems to have problems off the field, as well.

bpoz - Tuesday, July 28 2020 @ 09:43 AM EDT (#388541) #
On the 7th of Aug the rosters shrink to 28. I hope SRF and Zeuch have played. But maybe it does not matter.
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