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Now Dusty Baker is the one who manages this crew
He's older than the game itself, he's seen a thing or two
But that toothpick in his mouth
What the hell is that about?
It makes a fellow proud to be an Astro



The Astros have returned to what has always been their destiny.  They're right around .500 (16-15 this year, after going 29-31 in 2020.) This is the traditional Astro Way. The Astros have posted more 81-81 seasons than any franchise in the game (they've had four of them.) Only two other franchises have had as many seasons end up with a perfectly even .500 record, and those other two both started playing in 1901 (White Sox and Senators/Twins.) The Astros even have more 82-80 records than anyone else (they've got four of them as well - no other franchise has more than two.) They've been committed to this endless mediocrity.

But some fifteen years ago - deviation crept in. By May 2006, the Astros had actually pulled the all-time franchise record all the way up to .500 for the first time since April 1962. They had won their first few games, but being a 1960s expansion team, they quickly fell into a pretty large hole. It took them 44 years to slowly, slowly, slowly dig themselves out.  But not for long. First they got bad. Then they got really bad. And then they got worse. I remember - and it's likely that you do too, it wasn't so long ago - how antsy Jays fans got over three straight losing seasons. Why, in one of them they lost more than 90 games for the second time in almost 40 years. The Astros put their fans through successive seasons of 56-106, 55-107, and 51-111 - three truly horrendous seasons in which their average record was 54-108. Tanking, folks. Just a swell time for the entire family.

They were rewarded for this wickedness, of course. They drafted George Springer with the 11th pick in 2011, Carlos Correa with the 1st pick in 2012, Alex Bregman  with the 1st pick and Kyle Tucker with the 5th pick in 2015. They got really good, despite blowing two first overall picks (Mark Appel and Brady Aiken). They soon put together three straight 100 win seasons, one of which included a thoroughly tainted championship.

But this is not the Astro Way and things seem to be returning to normal.

Seems? Nay, I know not seems... These guys look a little dangerous to me, although much depends on whether the DP combination of Altuve and Correa can ever recover their scary form of days gone by. The two oldest guys in the lineup, Gurriel and Brantley, seem to have done that very thing, and have in fact been leading the attack. The rotation looks to be more than holding its own, with or without Jake Odorizzi. Zack Greinke is still worth the price of admission all by himself, and it remains a shame that he's found himself in the DH league. Zack surely agrees with me.

Typical lineup:

Altuve, 2b
Brantley, lf
Bregman, 3b
Alvarez, dh
Gurriel, 1b
Correa, ss
Tucker, rf
Straw, cf
Maldonado, c

Matchups!

Fri 7 May - Stripling (0-1, 6.39) vs Urquidy (2-2, 3.71)
Sat 8 May - Matz (4-2, 4.78) vs Javier (3-0, 1.75)
Sun 9 May - Some Guys (?-?, ?.??) vs Greinke (2-1, 3.76)
Blue Jays at Houston, May 7-9 | 151 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
vw_fan17 - Friday, May 07 2021 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#397490) #
Wish we'd been able to sign Brantely to DH for us - at least so far, based on early returns..
ISLAND BOY - Friday, May 07 2021 @ 03:58 PM EDT (#397498) #
Looking at the standings, and it is early, but no team has a fantastic record yet. The Red Sox are actually leading MLB with a .594 winning percentage. The AL East is really bunched up below them, and Baltimore is a surprise at one game below .500.

Other surprises are the Twins at 6 games below .500 and the super team, the Dodgers, at only 2 games above .500. The Giants leading the NL West is unexpected, as well.
scottt - Friday, May 07 2021 @ 04:02 PM EDT (#397499) #
According to Ben wagner, Tellez will be in Houston.
Only 3 games, but he did hit over .300 with one homerun.

Magpie - Friday, May 07 2021 @ 04:12 PM EDT (#397501) #
Zack Greinke is our pitching ace, he's not like you and me
Sometimes he sits down on the grass and reflects on destiny
Then he tells you what's the pitch
And he makes you swing and miss
It makes a fellow proud to be an Astro
hypobole - Friday, May 07 2021 @ 04:45 PM EDT (#397505) #
Greinke at 51, should pique the interest of at least one OP author here:



https://www.mlb.com/news/zack-greinke-throws-51-mph-pitch-against-tigers
Chuck - Friday, May 07 2021 @ 04:56 PM EDT (#397506) #
At age 37, Yuli Gurriel has decided that now is the time he will start drawing walks. For 36 years it didn't matter, but now it does. Hopefully he brings this up with his little brother this weekend.
Gerry - Friday, May 07 2021 @ 05:07 PM EDT (#397507) #
Riley Adams is back in the Bisons lineup tonight. I don't know who is now the mandatory catcher on the Jays taxi squad.
hypobole - Friday, May 07 2021 @ 06:03 PM EDT (#397511) #
Graterol would make the most sense for taxi squad catcher, no?
Magpie - Friday, May 07 2021 @ 06:23 PM EDT (#397512) #
Gurriel has decided that now is the time he will start drawing walks.

It's bizarre indeed. My first thought was it's because he's usually had Tucker (.179/.250/.349) and Straw (.222/.301/.273) hitting behind him. In which case, why would you throw the guy a strike? So I looked - of the 16 BB, 6 came with Tucker behind him, 4 with Straw (all in the first week.) And his last BB came on 24 April.
hypobole - Friday, May 07 2021 @ 06:24 PM EDT (#397513) #
* Can we get Lourdes Gurriel Jr. to talk to his older brother and ask about what he did to start drawing walks?

Kevin Goldstein, posted May 4.
Chuck - Friday, May 07 2021 @ 06:54 PM EDT (#397514) #
And his last BB came on 24 April.

So the madness is over then, and order has been restored to the universe. Good to know.

Magpie - Friday, May 07 2021 @ 07:15 PM EDT (#397515) #
Bregman and Correa, they were drafted number one
They helped us win a lot of games, we all had lots of fun
But when you bang on garbage cans
Something nasty hits the fans
And I'm really not so proud to be an Astro
Leaside Cowboy - Friday, May 07 2021 @ 07:54 PM EDT (#397516) #
First, Hurricane Harvey hit Houston. Then, the Astros won the World Series. Later, the sign-stealing scandal was exposed. Since, the drama of James Harden unfolded. Sadly, the worst scandal was exposed with Deshaun Watson. Until, the University of Houston reached the Final Four of March Madness.
Magpie - Friday, May 07 2021 @ 10:20 PM EDT (#397518) #
Brantley hit that so hard that I think it was in Gurriel's glove before Straw had made it all the way back to the bag to tag up. But that was still some throw.
Spifficus - Friday, May 07 2021 @ 10:53 PM EDT (#397519) #
Straw was only 5 feet off the bag and going back when Gurriel started his leap, so his jump was probably good enough. That leap was the best part of that throw for me. He wasn't just flat-footed - he was half-leaping up and back. He managed to get his body into position to even get a bit of drive off his back leg when he landed, and unleashed a decent strength throw, ultra quick and accurate.
Magpie - Friday, May 07 2021 @ 11:31 PM EDT (#397520) #
Siddall is convinced that Jansen was setting up so early ahead of the pitch that it was an extremely simple matter for the Houston dugout to let the hitter know the location of the next pitch.
Nigel - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 02:22 AM EDT (#397521) #
Siddall might be right, just as likely is that Stripling isnít that good and that regression says the bullpen is due for the odd tough outing.
scottt - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 11:59 AM EDT (#397526) #
I was not expecting Tice to face 9 hitters and Thorton only 2.
Mayza facing tough right handed bats will certainly lead to regression since he had allowed no runs yet.
Stripling got a few swinging strikes, but always early in the count.
With 2 strikes he seems to focus on trying to get the hitters to chase.
Against good hitters that's futility. Gotta keep throwing strikes and mixing it.
Too man sliders--the pitch that supposedly sent him to the IL.
Too few curves--his best pitch.
Overall, more velo that we'd seen before but not enough to blow past hitters.
It's quite possible that the Houston hitters notice when the catcher sets inside.



SK in NJ - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 12:15 PM EDT (#397528) #
Stripling's numbers with the Dodgers were very good (pre-2020), but since the trade where I've actually gotten to watch him a few times, he definitely does not pass the eye test. Nothing in his repertoire looks all that impressive so far. Although, his 4 starts on the season have been against the Yankees, Angels, Braves, and Astros, so the level of offense he has faced so far is strong.
Shoeless Joe - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 12:19 PM EDT (#397529) #
This rotation will only be fixed once some kids step up. I donít really see Stripling as solution.
bpoz - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 12:19 PM EDT (#397530) #
Agreed shoeless.
scottt - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 12:58 PM EDT (#397531) #
I'm pretty sure the plan was to have Pearson and Hatch in the rotation and that Stripling was the long relief guy ready to step up. If Pearson could throw 5 innings, they could limit Stripling to once through the batting order. It doesn't help that Kay and Zeuch have been worse.

Still, I feel pretty good about the starting pitching 3 days out of 5.
Having said that, it could be another though test for Matz.

Nigel - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 01:13 PM EDT (#397532) #
I think Striplingís probably got some utility as a 5th starter/swingman. I just think you need to set your expectations relative to that. Guys like him get hit hard semi regularly, it doesnít require the C to be tipping pitches etc. Occamís razor and all that.
scottt - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 01:37 PM EDT (#397533) #
Right. In this particular case, the hitter crushed a ball inside that missed the plate by several inches and was pointing to someone in the dugout while rounding the bases as if to say "Thank you, I owe you one."
grjas - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 02:34 PM EDT (#397534) #
"Thank you, I owe you one.ď

Interesting. Stripling was quoted as saying the batter clearly knew (or guessed) what was coming and wondered if it was relayed somehow from the bench.
Magpie - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 03:37 PM EDT (#397535) #
Stripling certainly wasn't sharp and was fortunate to escape with just three runs allowed - but that Correa homer... I was shocked that Correa actually swung at the pitch, instead of, you know, hitting the dirt. (And if there's an organization that appreciates the value of knowing what's coming next...)

Siddall was focused on what seemed an enormous amount of time between Jansen setting up in his location and Stripling going into his motion. And it was indeed a lengthy interval. The two of them definitely need to smooth that out, whether the Astros were tipping location or not. Because if they weren't, someone else will.
Gerry - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 03:39 PM EDT (#397536) #
Ben Wagner reports that Dolis is headed to the IL with AJ Cole likely to replace him. The Jays need a 40 man roster move to add Cole.
Chuck - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 04:08 PM EDT (#397539) #
fortunate to escape with just three runs allowed

The umpire helped Stripling escape a bases loaded jam with a simply brutal strike three call against Alvarez. It was surely the most expensive missed call of the game, from a run expectation perspective.

Magpie - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 04:28 PM EDT (#397540) #
simply brutal strike three call against Alvarez.

Right, that pitch that was three or four inches off the plate. Made me feel like St Augustine: "Lord, give me robo-umps, but not quite yet."
John Northey - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 04:30 PM EDT (#397541) #
For missed calls last night here is the Umpire Scorecard...


Funny it was actually +1.17 runs for the Jays. Poor umpiring overall though with sub 90% accuracy. Better is possible. There was a game Cardinals 5, Rockies 0 with 99% accuracy in every respect - 1 missed call (high strike called a ball)
Magpie - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#397542) #
And yes, the Umpire Scorecard agrees! (And the next worst call was the pitch before that sent the count to 2-2.)
Gerry - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 04:32 PM EDT (#397543) #
Dolis seems to have survived for now. Ty Tice has been optioned and AJ Cole activated.

Alejandro Kirk has been transferred to the 60 day DL.
Magpie - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 04:32 PM EDT (#397544) #
Damn, John. That was fast!
John Northey - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 04:34 PM EDT (#397545) #
A matter of timing Magpie. Dumb luck I logged on right after your comment. Umpire Scorecards normally is a bit behind on Jay games but had it there early.

Big news is poor Kirk going on the 60 day IL so we won't see him again until summertime. Sigh. Was so much fun watching him play. Lets hope he comes back at 100%.
Magpie - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 04:44 PM EDT (#397546) #
And I'm vaguely thinking that the Astros fight song needs an Altuve verse. This may mean rhyming "piece of work" with "nasty little squirt" but I can go there.
Gerry - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 05:28 PM EDT (#397547) #
Pearson headed to Houston, will start tomorrow.
Magpie - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 06:27 PM EDT (#397548) #
Dolis seems to have survived for now.

A grade one calf strain might keep him off the mound for ten days, according to my medical source. I actually had one myself last month - it startled the hell out of me - but I don't do anything more ambitious than walk to the store. Which I immediately resumed doing. Cautiously.
Cracka - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 06:54 PM EDT (#397549) #
It was mentioned on the broadcast last night that the Jays have made 80 roster transactions so far this season, which is by far the most in the majors. Brewers are next at 68. Now up to 83 with today's moves and likely 85 after Pearson is added tomorrow.
Magpie - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 07:44 PM EDT (#397550) #
I've been paying a bit of attention tonight to how the catchers were setting up behind the plate. Maldonado is generally classic. Gives the signal, the pitcher starts his motion, and then Maldonado moves quickly to his target location. On the first two pitches to Jansen he moved to set up low and away. And on the 1-1 pitch, he moved to set up right down the middle. For a fastball, which got hit into the next area code.
Nigel - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 07:48 PM EDT (#397551) #
Itís obvious that Jansen should be hitting cleanup.
greenfrog - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 07:53 PM EDT (#397552) #
The Jays are going to be tough to beat this year if Grichuk has finally figured out this hitting thing.
Magpie - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 08:11 PM EDT (#397553) #
if Grichuk has finally figured out this hitting thing.

He's been doing exactly what he said he was trying to do, beginning in the second half of 2019, which is simply to cut down on the strikeouts. And he cut his Ks significantly in the second half of 2019. He just didn't get rewarded at the time because the goddess of BABiP was upset with him. (She's just fickle, what can you say.) But ever since he's been striking out about 21% of the time, which is simply a huge change from the player he was when he came here. Kevin Pillar used to say every spring he was going to be more selective, and he'd start out making you believe him, and six weeks later he'd be back to being the same guy. But Grichuk has been able to continue with the thing he set out to accomplish almost two years ago.
electric carrot - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 08:20 PM EDT (#397554) #
Janson's before Kirk got injured and after he got injured stats are a curious mismatch.
Nigel - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 08:22 PM EDT (#397555) #
Matz kept his composure after getting Hernandezed. This is a tough lineup for a LH.
DavidtheDeuce - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 08:40 PM EDT (#397556) #
Maybe Randal should hit cleanup?
Chuck - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 08:54 PM EDT (#397558) #
Tabler tries to make a distinction between "aggressive hitter" and "free swinger" and a few of my brain cells died just listening. His thesis: Bichette is simply an "aggressive hitter" because he swings mainly at pitches in the strike zone (all the while, as we endure this laboured oral argument, we are watching Bichette in real time strike out by chasing pitches out of the zone).

A few clicks on the old internet and FanGraphs tells me that Bichette ranks #17 in percentage of pitches swung at outside the strike zone. So maybe not so disciplined as Tabler thinks, though one wonders what exactly he did all day to prepare for tonight's broadcast.

Tabler is correct, as the eye test alone makes clear, that Bichette does swing at a lot of strikes, ranking #35 in percentage of pitches swung at in the strike zone.

So as Shulman politely offered, Bichette falls in both camps.

Magpie - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 09:09 PM EDT (#397559) #
When Baker began his managerial career, he went to the bullpen more often than other managers and used more pitchers per game. Yes, he did. Almost thirty years later, he uses more pitchers per game than he did when he started, he goes to the bullpen even more often - but the other managers have changed even more than he has. So now he uses fewer pitchers per game and goes to the pen less often than the other guys. Even though he does it more often than he did back in the day.

Sparky Anderson evolved in a very similar way over the course of his long career, although I always attributed that to the very different types of staffs he had in Cincinnati and Detroit.
Nigel - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 09:18 PM EDT (#397560) #
The best/worst part of that exchange about Bichette was that the very next words (really) out of Patís mouth after Dan pointed out that Bichette was in the top 20 in swing % on balls was Pat saying what a great job Bichette does in laying off balls. Comic gold.
greenfrog - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 09:46 PM EDT (#397561) #
In the wordplay department, I see that Scrubb pitched a clean 1.2 IP for Houston tonight. No word yet on whether heíll be used in a mop-up role this season.
Magpie - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#397562) #
I don't want your number.
I don't want to give you mine.
hypobole - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 10:27 PM EDT (#397563) #
We were good at times and lucky at times, but great win. Thank you Marcus for finally letting me breath normally.

Great job by Chatwood.
Nigel - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 10:32 PM EDT (#397564) #
The Rule 5 close. Between the arm angle and the velocity, Bergen looks like he could be a useful piece as a 2nd or 3rd LH in the pen.

Excellent game by Biggio and Chatwood. Excellent win.
hypobole - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 10:33 PM EDT (#397565) #
Magpie, was going to make a bad joke about Dolis hopefully healing faster than a guy who watched Babe Ruth play live.

BTW, I'm very much a geezer. I started following baseball in the newspapers my dad bought when we drove out to the west coast 1968. Adopted the Tigers as my team and Grand Slam Northrup as my player. Can't remember watching their WS win, though, other than the post-game highlight of Northrup's FB going over Curt Flood's head. The oldest live on TV visual memory I have is Pete Rose barrelling into Ray Fosse. I have rewatched Northrup's triple, but once was enough for me on the Fosse collision.

scottt - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 10:47 PM EDT (#397566) #
Lots of good stuff in this game.
Couple of weak plays by Biggio and Hernandez, but they made worse errors on the other side.
Matz was sharp the first time through and battled afterwards.
Huge outing by Chatwood. Nice effort from Romano to get the meat of the order.
Good job by Bergen to close it.
Good defensive work by Guerrero.
Biggio, Jansen and Semien with the dingers.
Tellez at least got one hit and having him close to Biggio brought the situational lefty.
Another good hit by Grichuk to cash 2 runs.
Lots of walks. Lots of hustle.
A nailbiter with a good ending.

scottt - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 10:50 PM EDT (#397567) #
It sounds like Dolis will hit the IL to make room for Pearson.
pooks137 - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 10:56 PM EDT (#397568) #
I don't want your number. I don't want to give you mine.

I get this reference.

Looking it up though, I'm surprised it was released in 1999. I easily would have put it 10 years earlier.

Magpie - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 11:07 PM EDT (#397569) #
I'm surprised it was released in 1999. I easily would have put it 10 years earlier.

It was a good song. So it couldn't be from the 1980s. (The decade that music forgot.)

I remember watching most of the 1960s World Series games on TV at the time, but I was a wee little kid and I don't really remember the experience of it (aside from being frightened of Bob Gibson.) My "memory" is based much more on reading about them, watching some of the games on YouTube, looking over the play-by-plays.
JohnL - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 11:13 PM EDT (#397570) #

Iím not much of a fan of Cathal Kellyís writing (great styling, combined with over-the-top negative snark). But I really enjoyed his non-sports column in Saturdayís Globe & Mail.

Turns out John Gibbons has a sideline, for a company that offers video greetings from the famous (or not). Kelly decided to get Gibby to do a Motherís Day greeting for his mother, who knows or cares nothing about baseball.

(Subscribers only) https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/article-outsourcing-my-mothers-day-gift-to-john-gibbons-paid-off/

Kelly made it sound like a typical Gibby shtick, although checking out a few of his greetings, Iím not sure Iíd go for one. If you listen to the one to ďJTFLĒ, Gibby sounds a bit odd, takes a right-wing swipe at Manfred, and a baseball swipe at Jaysí front office.

https://memmo.me/ca/en/profile/john-gibbons
JohnL - Saturday, May 08 2021 @ 11:24 PM EDT (#397571) #
ďGeezerĒ? Heck. I remember watching Sparky Anderson PLAY 2B for the AAA Maple Leafs.
John Northey - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 12:16 AM EDT (#397573) #
Want to feel old? Sparky has been dead for over a decade now (died in 2010), and over 25 years since he managed a game (1995). The infamous 1987 pennant race which he beat the Jays and was his last time in the playoffs (geez do I detest Jimy Williams as a manager) was 33 years ago.
hypobole - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 08:09 AM EDT (#397574) #
Quiz with an answer that surprised me.
Which Jay leads the team in IP without starting a game this year?
Chuck - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 08:19 AM EDT (#397575) #
Comic gold.

When Bichette laid off an outside two-strike pitch in his next at-bat, Tabler had all the confirmation he needed: "A free swinger would have swung at that pitch." Of course, Bichette's OSwing% is 35%, not 100%. Even the wildest of free swingers takes some out-of-zone pitches.

Next pitch, about 4 inches high, Bichette fouls it off. Tabler's reaction: Bichette is fouling off tough pitches. But just a few seconds ago he was lauded for not being a free swinger.

None of this is to disparage Bichette. I do believe he will have to work on his OSwing% issue, but he has clearly had success with his current strategy so far.

All this griping about Tabler that I'm doing will have me pining for his return once I am forced to endure the Chatty Cathy doll that is Buck, whenever he comes back. These broadcasts need an option for "crowd noises only". The broadcast booth noises are increasingly intolerable.

Leaside Cowboy - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 09:49 AM EDT (#397577) #
Dusty Baker is the coolest manager in baseball. (The toothpick is part of it.) Tony LaRussa is the most uncool.
pooks137 - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 10:01 AM EDT (#397578) #
Which Jay leads the team in IP without starting a game this year?

I thought Joel Payamps was second on the team in bullpen innings one time this week when Sportsnet flashed up the bullpen leaders, which was equally amazing and horrifying.

pooks137 - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 10:25 AM EDT (#397579) #
Joel Payamps usage this year has been interesting and hard to criticize.

I didn't realize that Payamps was exclusively a SP in the minors for Arizona before he made his MLB debut. So it makes more sense why Montoyo sees him as a multi-inning reliever, as he's pitched more than an inning in 6 of his 10 appearances this year.

However, Charlie also doesn't trust him much as he's only entered the game once when the game was within a run, which was a bottom of the 7th doubleheader walk-off HR loss to KC with a depleted pen where Payamps was the goat.



Magpie - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 10:45 AM EDT (#397581) #
Montoyo sees [PAyamps] as a multi-inning reliever

At this moment he's also thinking of Cole as a multi-inning reliever (which is not how he used him last year.) He said after the game that once Matz came out after five, he had to get two from Chatwood, that Romano would deal with the heart of the lineup in the eighth (he used the words "high leverage") and Bergen would finish up whatever happened. But it was nice of Semien to provide some room for error
Parker - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 10:48 AM EDT (#397583) #
"I don't want your number. I don't want to give you mine."

I get this reference.

Looking it up though, I'm surprised it was released in 1999. I easily would have put it 10 years earlier.



What? It came out in 1992.
hypobole - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 11:29 AM EDT (#397584) #
Can't say I always agree with Charlie's decisions, but I will say on the whole, they are a lot better than a lot of the fanbase thinks they are. The other site I sometimes check, but don't comment at, has been pretty bad.

Fire Charlie has been a common theme. A popular running comment was "not happy unless he uses 5 relievers" early in the season. I hate to say this, but I've wondered on multiple occasions if it has anything to do with him being Latino instead of a good ole boy for a few of the fans there.

Even the guy who runs the site has some bizarre 2nd guess takes at times. Bring Chatwood back for a 3rd inning last night? Thank goodness for the sanity of Batter's Box.
pooks137 - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 11:33 AM EDT (#397585) #
What? It came out in 1992.

I feel like I'm having a Mandela effect moment as well, but Wikipedia says "No Scrubs" by TLC was released commercially as a single on March 23rd, 1999.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Scrubs

Nigel - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 11:49 AM EDT (#397586) #
Iíve never been a big fan of Charlieís in game strategic acumen, but I think heís generally done an excellent job with the pen this year (particularly given the hand heís been dealt). I think the results sort of speak for themselves, no?
John Northey - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 11:52 AM EDT (#397587) #
Something I love about Montoyo and baseball in general is how the 'slave to the save' mentality has died off it seems. From the early 80's until recently it was save your closer for the 9th no matter what. Now we are going back to the 70's method of using your best when most needed (except not leaving him in for 3 innings then). 4 guys have saves for the Jays now, and if Dolis goes on the IL then all 4 will be on the IL. Ugh. But go back a decade and the Jays had 6 guys get saves over all 162 games (2011: Frank Francisco led, Jon Rauch also over 10, Janssen, Camp, Litsch, Dotel getting 1 or 2 saves each), go back another decade and 2001 has 4 guys getting saves (Koch, Quantrill, Eyre, Plesac), 1991 has 5 guys (Henke, Ward a killer 1/2 punch, Timlin 3, Wells & Acker grabbing 1 each). 1981 just 3 guys (McLaughlin 10, Jackson 7, Leal 1).

So by decade we see 1981: 3, 1991: 5, 2001: 4, 2011: 6, 2021: 4 so far 32 games in - more than 1981's short season, same as 2001.

So who has been trusted and not? From Baseball Reference...
High Leverage games: Dotel 7, Phelps 6, Romano 6, Boruki 5, 4 each for Castro, Chatwood, Merryweather, Mayza 2, 1 each Payamps, Zeuch.

Low Leverage: Payamps 9; 5 each Dotel, Boruki and Mazya; 4 each Bergen, Tice; 3 for Phelps, Romano, Milone, Thornton, 2 each Castro, Chatwood; 1 for Roark.

All other relief games were mid level. High example: Bottom of 6th, 1 on 2nd 1 out ahead by 2; low: bottom 8th 1 out 1 on 3rd down 1; both from Boruki (sadly they show average leverage on game logs so I'm guessing the average will be close to what it was when he came in each time as each of these times he faced 2 batters). I'd define low leverage a bit differently myself but that is what they use and it is useful to some degree.
Magpie - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 12:01 PM EDT (#397588) #
I hate to say this, but I've wondered on multiple occasions if it has anything to do with him being Latino

I honestly doubt it - mainly because I think I pay fairly close attention and I always forget that Montoyo is Latino. I'm only aware of it when I'm hearing him speak. It's always an "oh yeah, he's Puerto Rican" moment for me.
scottt - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 12:11 PM EDT (#397589) #
Who's Dotel? Dolis?
hypobole - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 12:12 PM EDT (#397590) #
Magpie, you aren't the type of person I was referencing whatsoever. And I've never thought that of the posters here. But the sheer illogical hate he gets elsewhere has made me wonder at times. I'm sure some hate him for other reasons. But I'd be shocked if no one thought that way.

scottt - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 12:14 PM EDT (#397591) #
Well, it would be nice to give Cole a few low leverage innings to start.
He could become high leverage in a heartbeat.

Cole was effective against lefties last year which is less a concern this year with 3 lefties currently in the pen.

hypobole - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 12:15 PM EDT (#397592) #
Dolis is the new Dotel, I guess like orange is the new black.
Dewey - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 12:29 PM EDT (#397593) #
John L.

So you were just too late for Mike Goliat, about to graduate to the Philadelphia Whiz Kids for 1960? Goliatís manager that year was a HOFer, with an unusual distinction. (He played for the Brooklyn Robins in the 1920ís. Anyone know him?)

I second your recommendation of Cathal Kellyís piece.
Mike Green - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 01:26 PM EDT (#397595) #
Nate Pearson makes the start as Some Guy. Looking forward to Alek Manoah's debut as More Guy.
John Northey - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 01:29 PM EDT (#397596) #
Doh, price of being old. Yes, I mean Dolis not Dotel. Funny, just looked back and Dotel was only here half a season but I guess his name got stuck in my mind. He was traded (with others) to get Trever Miller, Colby Rasmus, Brian Tallet and P.J. Walters. Not bad.
Paul D - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 01:33 PM EDT (#397597) #
Off topic - Creep by TLC was released in the early 90s No Scrubs was released in 99 (from what I see online) . I think the two songs are being confused.
Kasi - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 01:44 PM EDT (#397599) #
Yeah Tom is generally level headed there but even he lately has given in to this hypobole. I think it doesnít help that people like Stoeten parades that stuff but there are several very loud posters on that site who keep ripping into Montoya for what I view as results based thinking. Funny enough one of them posts here but has never posted here to fire Montoya despite posting that multiple times over there. Presumably because they know the community here wouldnít respond as well to it.

Looking at what John has posted above itís clear that the high leverage innings have been going to the right relievers. And while he probably likes Panik a bit more than he should I donít really have much to complain lineup wise. I was amused with some recent post that it was a fireable offense to bat Biggio fifth and that he should be batting sixth or ninth! Or all the hate for Semien leading off which seems to have died down recently. I do also wonder if there is some racial component to it. The latest thing was the outrage over punching hitting Espinal last night for the very underwhelming Tellez. Anyway itís a ton of outrage over some very marginal decisions and it really gets tired around the blogs covering the Jays. Especially from Lewis/Stoeten/Podcast crowds.
Kasi - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#397600) #
It also makes me wonder if Cito was managing now how much outrage heíd create with his lineup choices. You think youíre upset at Panik batting well Cito numerous times blocked young hitters with old vets for years at a time. Anyway we already have Cathal Kelly and Steve Simmons we donít need more of these types from our other blogs.
Kasi - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 02:25 PM EDT (#397601) #
I donít have this game on but 96/95 while nice seems about slow for Nate. Also he seems to have issues throwing strikes.
Polite Nate - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 02:30 PM EDT (#397602) #
95-96 and wild seems like all I've ever seen from Pearson in MLB as a starter, not at all what was advertised. He did seem to be getting sharper as the inning went on.
Magpie - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 02:31 PM EDT (#397603) #
you aren't the type of person I was referencing whatsoever.

Never thought you were. I just think there really isn't a whole lot of recognizing that Montoyo is Latino. I'll bet more casual fans think Semien is Latino instead.
uglyone - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 02:50 PM EDT (#397606) #
Relax kiddo. Just throw it in there.
Magpie - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 02:53 PM EDT (#397607) #
outrage over... hitting Espinal last night for the very underwhelming Tellez.

Sentient humans were actually upset about that? Do they know why Brooks Raley has a job in the major leagues?

Sigh.
Polite Nate - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 02:54 PM EDT (#397608) #
So much for looking sharper.
Magpie - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 02:55 PM EDT (#397609) #
Relax kiddo.

Looks like he's aiming the ball, doesn't it.
dalimon5 - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 02:55 PM EDT (#397610) #
This guy can throw really well. Whole other thing to know how to pitch...
uglyone - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 02:56 PM EDT (#397611) #
Not sure all these first pitch sliders are the best choice for a guy struggling with command.
uglyone - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 02:59 PM EDT (#397612) #
Making no solid contact off of him. One deep fly but even that was mishit a bit.

If ever the cliche "trust your stuff kid" applied, it's right now.
Magpie - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 02:59 PM EDT (#397613) #
You would think. But the slider he at least throws for strikes. He can't get his fastball over the plate.
99BlueJaysWay - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#397615) #
I also havenít seen any swinging strikes yet
Shoeless Joe - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#397616) #
Itís a bit bizarre, threw strikes in the minors, and batters have a very low contact quality against him in the majors. Hopefully he works himself towards a more finished product.
Kasi - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:04 PM EDT (#397617) #
I think his fastball is a big straight right? Maybe afraid of putting it over the plate and it getting hammered.
Gerry - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:06 PM EDT (#397618) #
Pearson recorded 8 K's in his minor league debut and that was written up all over the media. It was only here on Da Box that it was pointed out that he needed 78 pitches to get through 4 innings, not exactly major league worthy.

So its no surprise here that he has used 50 pitches to get through 2 innings today. Is he ready? He needs to have better command of his fastball than what we have seen so far.
grjas - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#397619) #
Itís no surprise Pearson is rusty. He has a new delivery, only had one game in the minors and missed most of ST. We need to cut him some slack for a few starts I think.
pooks137 - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#397620) #
It also makes me wonder if Cito was managing now how much outrage heíd create with his lineup choices.

As I posted here last week when I researched Ed Sprague's 0-35 streak in 1994, Cito didn't give Sprague a single inning or PA off during the entire streak.

It makes you wonder if anyone even noticed Sprague going O-for-10-days in the pre-Internet era

Magpie - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:13 PM EDT (#397621) #
I don't remember Sprague's hitless streak. But I do remember seeing Darnell Coles play third base from time to time. He made Sprague look like Brooks Robinson. So there was that.
uglyone - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:22 PM EDT (#397622) #
Hard not to question the FO on this call up.
dalimon5 - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:26 PM EDT (#397624) #
"Itís no surprise Pearson is rusty. He has a new delivery, only had one game in the minors and missed most of ST. We need to cut him some slack for a few starts I think."

His reputation is a pitcher who does not offer command or control. If he had demonstrated solid work in the past at the MLB level that would be one thing, but he simply has shown more of the opposite. Reminds me a lot of Sanchez.

This guy needs to go to the Rays organization, then he will be a guy who can throw 100+, wicked change up and control. Of course with the Jays he is someone with control issues and inability to log innings.
92-93 - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:28 PM EDT (#397625) #
Pearson looked horrendous, but that "triple" he gave up was embarrassing defense by both Tellez and Hernandez. Earlier in the game Tellez decided he doesn't need to run hard on groundballs. Clean it up.
scottt - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:29 PM EDT (#397626) #
Well, I'm sure many will question the front office for not calling up Manoah, who is not on the 40 roster.

The problem seems more mental than mechanical.

Also, they should have conceded the third run. That costed an out.
Most of the hit balls have been hit hard.  Popped up, but hit hard.


dalimon5 - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:29 PM EDT (#397627) #
Of course, the biggest issue for me is that lack of swing and miss, which has already been highlighted.

Maybe Pearson is the guy who goes out in a trade package should the Jays trade for a controllable high end starter with demonstrated performance at the MLB level.
Eephus - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:31 PM EDT (#397628) #
Hard not to question the FO on this call up

Admittedly, it would've been pretty interesting if they'd instead called up the other giant 6'6 RHP they have in AAA.
hypobole - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:31 PM EDT (#397629) #
Ball was smoked but it went right through Rowdy's wickets for the triple.
scottt - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:33 PM EDT (#397630) #
Many of the hits were on fastballs at the knees.
It's very common to see poor defense after multiple walks.

Eephus - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:34 PM EDT (#397631) #
Regarding Pearson, there is definite cause for some concern but I'd give him another couple more starts to see where exactly he's at. Hard to tell if he was nibbling too much and lost the strikezone that way, or he just had no clue where it was going. Probably both. Hope he trusts his stuff a bit more next time.
Magpie - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:39 PM EDT (#397632) #
Hard not to question the FO on this call up.

Looks just a little like a desperate attempt to find someone, anyone, who can do better than Stripling and Kay. And they don't want to rush Manoah, who's got 23 pro innings and makes Pearson look like a grizzled vet.

Next up, Trent Thornton? Which might work. Or Joel Payamps? (He was a starter in AAA. A starter with a 5.42 ERA in AAA, but you know what they say about beggars being choosy.)
grjas - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#397633) #
Boy. Tough crowd. The kidís thrown a total of 20 innings in the majors excluding his dominant appearances in the playoffs and weíre ready to write him off as a SP? Can imagine the comments Halliday would have garnered in year 2Ö.
uglyone - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:46 PM EDT (#397634) #
"Looks just a little like a desperate attempt to find someone, anyone, who can do better than Stripling and Kay. And they don't want to rush Manoah, who's got 23 pro innings and makes Pearson look like a grizzled vet."

Yeah but rushing a prospect due to your own inability to field an MLB caliber rotation is classic bad management doubling down on its own mistakes.

"Next up, Trent Thornton? Which might work. Or Joel Payamps? (He was a starter in AAA. A starter with a 5.42 ERA in AAA, but you know what they say about beggars being choosy.)"

.....Ryan Borucki.
Oceanbound - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:50 PM EDT (#397635) #
Bah gawd, that's Jacob Waguespack's music!
Magpie - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:50 PM EDT (#397636) #
It might work for a year, but Borucki will hurt himself. I guarantee it. He's lost three whole seasons to injury during the years he was trying to be a starter. It's not what his arm was made to do.
Spifficus - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:54 PM EDT (#397637) #
I was assuming Boruki was a joke, because it'd be exponentially more desperate than Pearson's promotion.
uglyone - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:54 PM EDT (#397638) #
Just throw strikes kid....

.....well, not like THAT.
Polite Nate - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:55 PM EDT (#397639) #
I never really dig into minor league performances in detail, but I can't square what I've ever seen from Pearson at MLB with the success he's had n the minors, unless he is exploiting some free swingers down there that he can't get away with at this level? It's the kind of thing that makes me plenty patient when waiting for Manoah and the like.

I'm surprised that it seems like the team has given up on Thornton as a starter. He might not be an all-star but he's at least got a track record of modest success in the rotation. I also have had hopes for Kay but he's struggled enough so far that I can't fault the team for looking elsewhere.

Either way though, I think a lot of the playoff hopes for this team count on Pearson or someone else figuring it out enough to at hold down a spot in the rotation. There are just too many bullpen days to be sustainable. Not gonna give up on him though.
uglyone - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:56 PM EDT (#397640) #
How is it desperate? Borucki has never not been good in MLB, no matter the role. And he's 27, not some kid to worry about developing.
Magpie - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:57 PM EDT (#397641) #
Just throw strikes kid....

I was just thinking that sort of thing, with all the attendant cliches ... come on throw a strike, home plate doesn't move, Babe Ruth's dead.... I don't know. Kids nowadays.
Mike Green - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 03:58 PM EDT (#397642) #
Management's decision to give the start to Pearson over Kay is looking...reasonable enough. 

What would Leo Durocher have done for Nate Pearson?  I guess edibles are out of the question. 
Magpie - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 04:01 PM EDT (#397643) #
And [Borucki's] 27, not some kid to worry about developing.

Well, I'm thinking - he's finally found a job that he can do (and do well) without hurting himself. Let's not mess with it.

On the other hand, now he's just a relief pitcher. And it's my long-stated belief that relief pitchers grow on trees. So what the hell. Whaddya got to lose?
85bluejay - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 04:06 PM EDT (#397644) #
I see from the box score that Payamps was tken out after 14 pitches - why?
Nigel - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 04:12 PM EDT (#397645) #
grjas - I understand the tough crowd comment. Itís just that Pearson really didnít look close to being ready. That wasnít a hard luck outing.

Kay really isnít an answer to any question you want to be asking. I wonder if Payamps could give you 4/5 innings at a non-disastrous clip?
hypobole - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 04:12 PM EDT (#397646) #
Watched Pearson multiple times in the minors. His command was never great, came and went sometimes, and of course hitters are more exploitable but he wasn't missing badly like today over and over. He's better than we saw today.
scottt - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 04:14 PM EDT (#397647) #
Kay is in love with his new cutter, but it's not an out pitch.
Unless he dares to throw it in on lefties.

What do you know? Pitching might be hard after all.

85bluejay - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 04:14 PM EDT (#397648) #
I'd be for trying to stretch out Payamps - Also, please don't rush Manoah or SWR.
hypobole - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 04:15 PM EDT (#397649) #
"I guess edibles are out of the question."

I think teams try sports psychologists first. At least I hope so.
pooks137 - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 04:16 PM EDT (#397650) #
Kay really isnít an answer to any question you want to be asking. I wonder if Payamps could give you 4/5 innings at a non-disastrous clip?

Payamps came into today with a 5.1 K/9 rate and a 43% GB rate.

If those peripherals demonstrate his stuff playing up as a reliever, he's going to get crushed as a MLB spot starter.

Nigel - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 04:16 PM EDT (#397651) #
I donít know if you could move Borucki to the starting rotation mid season. Heís literally a different pitcher as a reliever than a starter. I donít know that the CH that would be critical for him to get batters out as a starter is even possible from his current arm angle.
Mike Green - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 04:22 PM EDT (#397652) #
Hypobole, it was a reference to the famous Durocher/Seats story.  Leo the Lip decided that young Seats' problems on the mound resulted from a case of nerves, and gave him several fingers of brandy prior to a game. That settled him.  When GM Branch Rickey found out, he was apopletic. Leo muttered something about a manager's job being to put as many into the W column as he could.  
uglyone - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#397653) #
That was pretty great. Hopefully they pull out the win to highlight that as a turning point.
Magpie - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 04:32 PM EDT (#397654) #
Well, there's your shutdown inning. I guess.
grjas - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 04:38 PM EDT (#397655) #
ď I'm surprised that it seems like the team has given up on Thornton as a starter.Ē

This has puzzled me as wel. I wonder if they are trying to manage his innings given last yearís injuries.
scottt - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 04:57 PM EDT (#397656) #
Payamps last threw 29 pitches on May 6.
hypobole - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 05:00 PM EDT (#397657) #
That's great, Mike, never heard that Leo the Lip story before.
Kasi - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 05:24 PM EDT (#397658) #
You canít both demand the FO bring people up from the minors and then criticize them when someone struggles. Pearson has always done fine at AAA and Iím not sure he is going to get much more effective there. I think he needs to do something with his FB to get more movement, whether that be a 2 seamer or whatever. Just throwing flat straight four seamers isnít going to work as your only FB.
tercet - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 06:01 PM EDT (#397659) #
Man I thought very low of Nate Pearson for several years and he might be even worse then I even thought ugh.
It was obvious throughout his milb career he has always had bad command/control, but oh vei he is getting exposed at the mlb level.
John Northey - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 06:15 PM EDT (#397660) #
I'm thinking Pearson was very close to going longer. Never thought I'd say it but if Vlad was at 1B maybe that ball would've been caught and Pearson is out of the inning without a run scoring. Saves 2 runs that inning and gets Pearson to the 4th. Who knows how it all works out from there. Tellez looks lost at both the plate and the field. He looks like a guy desperate for a trade, as he probably knows there is no future for him here at this point. Problem is who wants a 1B/DH who isn't hitting and isn't a good fielder?

I think Pearson needs to be handed video of Halladay's starts and have a coach sit down and talk with him about what he needs to do to move to the next level. 5 BB vs 0 SO in 2 1/3 won't do the job. He was lucky 'only' 3 runs scored against him. Now, maybe his stuff is enough in the minors so there is nothing for him to learn there as it would just re-enforce bad habits that will get him killed in the majors.

Lets hope for better things in the future. It was Halladay's 3rd season that he blew up, and his 4th he became the Halladay we all loved to watch (105 IP 2.1 BB/9 vs 8.2 K/9) at age 23. Problem for Nate is he is already 24 so he can't take another 2 years to figure it out as baseball isn't patient enough for 26 year olds to figure it out. Can't help but wonder if the Jays hadn't given Halladay a long term deal before he blew up if they would've put as much into getting him to the point he got to. IE: the rope would've been a LOT shorter. Pearson has the raw skill but how much time will he be given to figure it out?
Shoeless Joe - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 06:25 PM EDT (#397661) #
Pearson has a career 2.34 BB/9 in the minors, after few wild starts in the majors Iím not writing him off to Daniel Cabrera levels of wild power pitcher.
scottt - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 07:35 PM EDT (#397662) #
The Jays have more medical info on Thornton than us.
Kirby Yates had 2 bones chips removed from his elbow last year, which is similar to what was done to Thorton. They could be just extra careful or they could have cause for concerns.
We might never know.

hypobole - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 07:46 PM EDT (#397663) #
This past weeks chat

Guest: Do you think there are some players who just canít quite handle the pressure of being asked to perform in front of 40,000 fans and a bunch of television cameras, and who under-perform their MiLB stats or scouting report as a result? Iím fairly certain that whatever Iím most talented at, Iíd wilt if asked to do it on national television.

Kevin Goldstein: Yes.

Is there a Remy Martin edible?

grjas - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 08:28 PM EDT (#397664) #
It could be. But in fairness he pitched great in the playoffs last year which is a higher pressure environment.

No idea how Pearson will turn out, but frankly I would have been surprised if he had a great outing today pitching with a newer delivery and not a lot of game action to practice it in. Hopefully doesnít give him the yips, or whatever the pitching equivalent is.
John Northey - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 09:08 PM EDT (#397665) #
I think the good thing is he was so close to getting out of that last inning but 2 defensive miscues cost him so he knows he had that inning done despite not having his best stuff or aim or much of anything. If he gets things going smoothly he could be really good. If... Young pitchers will break your heart sigh.
hypobole - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 09:44 PM EDT (#397666) #
Bo had defensive issues early on and a period of about a week or so when he really struggled with his throwing. Looked much better since. I guess if it's temporary like Bo's it's the jitters, if it continues, it's the yips, for want of knowing if there are actual technical terms.
JohnL - Sunday, May 09 2021 @ 10:35 PM EDT (#397667) #
Dewey:
I defer to the king of Batter's Box geezers. I admit I don't remember Mike Goliat at all, but discovered that:

"Goliat played in Minor League Baseball for the Toronto Maple Leafs (1949; 1952Ė59), and was named the International League Most Valuable Player in 1956. He holds the Maple Leafsí franchise career records for games played (1,077), home runs (138), doubles (186), and RBI (556)."

I say this as someone who was actually a *part owner* of the Maple Leafs AAA team. When the post-Jack Kent Cooke owners tried going public, as a teenager, I paid $20 for 20 shares in the team. As my father (angry when he found out = $20 in mid-60s was worth something) predicted, the shares would soon be worthless, but I really wish I still had that stock certificate.
hypobole - Monday, May 10 2021 @ 06:22 AM EDT (#397668) #
Final thoughts on Pearson and his outing. Talent evaluators I trust have his command as a 45, which lines up with what I saw in the minors most games I watched. I did see one game where similar to today, he totally lost his release point. It happens, and as Gerry has pointed out here over the years, it happens with tall pitchers especially. Glasnow graduated with 40 command. It's still not plus, but it doesn't have to be and neither does Pearson's.

There certainly seemed some mental aspect yesterday. Jitters? Or just frustration.

Bit of a segue here, but Perry Minasian has signed Dalton Pompey to a minors deal with the Angels. Wishing Dalton the best - would be a wonderful story if he could make it back to the bigs.

dalimon5 - Monday, May 10 2021 @ 08:03 AM EDT (#397671) #
If Pearson can reach his potential as a starting pitcher at the top 2 position, I now think it will be in a year or two at the earliest or with another organization. Like Glasnow he needs to practice and learn against major League hitters. He's just not ready and throwing 2 pitches, only one for strikes.

Halladay is a HOF'er. Can't compare. He came up in the mid 90s. He arrived on a non contending team. Top 20 prospects are expected to be polished enough to throw strikes and get batters out, simple as that. If Nate can't do that, there are 3 or 4 others behind him who will.

Compare Pearson to Mize, both are high end prospects and both have a lot of work to do. Mize has had 6 weeks of trial and error this year just making adjustments and seems to be improving. He is on a non contending team and it's a perfect scenario for him to develop. Pearson doesn't have that here and should be pitching in the minors until he is ready.
grjas - Monday, May 10 2021 @ 08:39 AM EDT (#397674) #
Wishing Dalton the best - would be a wonderful story if he could make it back to the bigs.

For sure. Always liked him and was disappointed it didnít work out here.
scottt - Monday, May 10 2021 @ 10:37 AM EDT (#397676) #
Lots of top prospects are in low minors.
Pearson is the second pitcher behind Mize who has had all sort of problems at the major level.
1-6 with a 5.61 ERA. 23 Ks, but 14 walks and 30 hits so far.

It's kinda like the other way around.
Non contenders keep their prospects down longer.
You think Detroit wants to waste a couple of years of control developing Mize at the big league level?
Pitchers are as likely to take steps back or get hurt.

Verlander is maybe a better comparison for Pearson.
0-2 with a 7.15 ERA the first year.
First start next year, 7 shutout innings, then 7 earned runs and couldn't get out of the 3rd inning the second time.
Had some ups and down but ended up with a 3.63 ERA for the year.


Dewey - Monday, May 10 2021 @ 01:19 PM EDT (#397695) #
Hi John L:

That defunct stock certificate might be worth more now than it was then! My initial query was even more about Goliatís manager in 1959 than about Mike himself. That would be the geezer-in-chief, Burleigh Grimes; the last of the legal spit-ballers, grand-fathered in, so to speak.
John Northey - Monday, May 10 2021 @ 02:09 PM EDT (#397697) #
Agreed on Halladay but anytime a kid struggles I always think back to his first 3 seasons and how ugly things got after his near no-no his 2nd start and solid 1st full season. Thus why I check ages and point out the Jays had millions in vested in him already at that point and didn't want to write it off as 'just another screwed up kid'. I really don't get why we don't see more of kids being sent way down and rebuilt with a dedicated pitching coach (plus psychologist IIRC) when hot prospects flop after it worked so amazing well there, from 10.49 ERA to HOF. Maybe it does happen but isn't publicized like Halladay's was.
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